MTG Ixalan Spoilers: Party Edition

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>what if we made Goblin Guide but better?
>lol why not, fuck red players

>>55116033
Is this bait?

>>55116033

Goblin Guide has haste and doesn't fetch a land into play. It just has the potential to put one in hand.

Of the two Guide seems like the generally better option as it's got a lot less downside.

>>55116033
More like a shitty Wild Nacatl than a better Goblin Guide. Goblin Guide only puts the land in their hand, it doesn't ramp them like this card. Goblin Guide also offers information about your opponent's top deck. Haste is the primary reason people care about Guide though. Guide has done 4 damage on turn 2 while this guy has only done 3 and put your opponents ahead of you on the curve. Bad card that won't even see Standard play.

>>55116033
That's not better than goblin guide m8

>>55115761
Ixalan is another argument in favor of Edgar being the best C17 commander

>>55116213
We'll have to see some actual good vampires for that to be the case. The white rare one is fringe playable, but I'm not sure a way shittier Sun Titan is what the vampire tribal deck needed.

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>>55115761
Would this be overextending with OP's card?

>>55116303
I mean, if you're playing tokens overextending is the name of the game. Gotta go wide to get fed.

>>55116303
>overextending
That's when you shit your hand onto the board And play into your opponent's wrath.
This is curving beautifully into a spell for max value.
I mean if you played something on turns 1, 2, and 3 as well and they have yet to respond properly then you're probably overextending and will eat an Hour of Devestation.

>>55116238
>Bloodcrazed Paladin
>Bishop of Rebirth (as a "better" Sun Titan since it is a vampire)
>Mavren Fein, Dusk Apostle
Are all good to great depending on your strategy
And if you go full tokens/anthems, the sorcery OP posted is pretty good
I'm pretty sure we'll also get playable common/uncommon vampires

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>>55116323
Imma need this too, huh?

>>55116359
>anthems
Is that even a thing in standard?

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BT0cOBI9yD0

>>55116376
No but we're talking about EDH so Standard doesn't matter

>>55116074
>fetch a land into play

in legacy?

>>55116405
dammit

>staple shit red mythic
>Pirate
THIS IS NOT OK

>>55116416
While it is true that many decks play 0 basic lands in legacy there are still quite a few that do run some. Mono-colored decks are a thing. Also sometimes a tri color deck will run one of each basic to fetch out in response to a blood moon coming down.

The dryad is just flat out not good.

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>>55115761
>>casting this ever when Sram's Expertise is still in rotation

>>55116628
To be fair, one's a rare and one's an uncommon. Should be a nice card in limited if there's any anthem or team pump effects.

>>55116382

lol an exerted glorybringer on every turn

this is exactly what we needed

>>55116033
I don't play legacy, but I wonder how well that would work in nic fit, since you are already giving your opponent their trivial amount of basic lands as part of your ramping strategy.

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>mythic
W H Y
H
Y

>>55116759
It's just too unique of a design to be rare anon :^)

>>55116759
What the fuck is that little blue and white monkey thing in the corner? Is that what an Ixalan goblin looks like?

>>55116771
>5/5 trample for four MAYBE
Could have been an uncommon, the effevt isnt even complicated. I want to build tribal Pirate EDH but too many of the pirates suck.

>>55116777
Its a black man.

>>55116679
>lol an exerted glorybringer on every turn
>this is exactly what we needed

please learn the rules of Magic The Gathering.

Literally everything about what you posted is wrong.

>>55116759

I'd rather have garbage unplayables at mythic than have to buy a staple playset for Standard.

>>55116851
>plays standard
Everyone, point and laugh.

>>55116964
Do you live in a glass house?

>>55116701
Yes. And nic fit is deck tat resolves OG bolas and straight up can mancast titans.
why the fuck do they want to play a 3/3 for 1 that doesnt help you survive better than just tragic slip?

>>55116759
>People complain when the mythics are good
>People complain when the mythics are bad

Might as well just do whatever then.

>>55116983
>$20 standard mythic
>cant afford it

>being bad at money managment
>2010+8-1

>>55117073
This isnt just bad, this isnt even fun or different or in anyway 'mythic' feeling. Its worse than many uncommons. And for a 'new' tribe its even worse.

>>55117087
>This isnt just bad

You're right, it isn't bad. It's a 4 mana 3/3 with trample that draws cards in red.

>>55116701
Nic fit is ramp, not aggro. They have no need for a low curve beater

>>55117104
>draws a random card and you discard two other random cards
>3/3
>trample mattering on a 3/3 for 4CMC

If itbwere common, amazing.
If it was uncommon, it would be great.
If it was rare, bulk and ok draft pick
At mythic its not even EDH fodder, and completely unplayable.

>>55117157
I wouldn't be surprised if this were another Archangel's Light where Design turned in some crazy card and then Development butchered it.

>>55117215
Probably, but I hate the idea of that. Even just having it be base power 5/5 wouldnt make it terribly strong. Hell, slap legendary and up the cost if you need to. Just dont make unplayable cards.

>>55116033
fits right in with landfall decks. Mite be nice.

>>55117278
I don't think giving a land to your opponents only triggers landfall

>>55117559
Wow, I misread it. Okay, yeah, ignore that then.

>>55116033
well goblin guide is stronger in red than in green as red is the best rush color with reach to end games.

Goblin guide draws(card disadvantage). dryad puts the land on the battlefield.IT RAMPS and is card disadvantage.AND IT MANA FIX TOO.

Goblin guide only has 1/3 chance of drawing each attack, dryad can only do it once but it does it immediately and 100% of times.

Giving the opponent land with goblin guide has consequences only later into the game when the opponent would have emptied his hand from lands (which happens usually on turn 4-5), Dryad played on turn 1 timewalks your opponent, putting him closer to a removal or good blocker.

you are 99% getting 2 damage out of GG, but the chance of your dryad walking the plank or getting a fat dinosaur in her way before even attacking once it's way bigger than 1%.

>>55117073
Just supress the mythic rarity and all will be good.

>>55117710
>is card disadvantage
no, if you nd your opponent have 3 spells in hand and exchange them 1 for 1 you still end them together. Ramping is not card advantage.(unless you play with land destruction of course, but that's a specific scenario)

http://www.magicspoiler.com/mtg-spoiler/deadeye-plunderers/

So is the Mechanized Production, Treasure enchantment win-con gonna be an actual thing?

>>55118022
Certainly going to be a fun backup wincon for my Pirates Commander deck.

>>55116847
It's not the most wrong thing to think you can copy glorybringer and exert it. Presumably he's thinking you exert one, then next turn exert the other, next turn the original untaps and you can exert it again, etc.

Would work if it changed at beginning of combat, but not on attack.

>>55117266
Id rather another archangels light over another skullclamp really. Besides it isnt the worst, its totally playable in draft at 4 mana and it wont be a chase mythic. Youll be upset about an unplayable mythic until next spoiler season, but youll be upset about bonkers broken shit like clamp or tolaria academy or jtms until it rotates and then a while after.

So I've been thinking about the whole Treasure, Mechanized Production, Revel in Riches deck. It should work quite nicely along with cards like Marionette Master, etc. Think about it, with Marionette Master out, you just sack 5 Treasure Tokens, and win. You have 3 different win-cons in the deck, and they all revolve around pukeing out ramp tokens.

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>>55118800
Maybe even jam in white for pic related.

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>>55116033

Better or Worse? I'd say Old-Growth Dryads is worse because at least with the Elephant, you're only hurting your own manabase (rather than helping your opponent) which can be mitigated by running a lower curve.

>>55115761
>three 1/1 vampires
>anointed procession makes that six

Straight into edgar you go.

>>55118835

Depends. Dryads might have some use if your opponent doesn't run basic lands (Which a good chunk of decks do in some formats) but won't ever be maindeck material.

On the other hand: Since dryads are non-optional they get fucking hilarious if the other guy can flicker your stuff.

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Every time you cast a Merfolk spell create a 1/1 Merfolk creature token with hexproof
Thoughts?

>>55118904

I'm always annoyed to see hexproof creatures. I think it dumbs down the game considerably.

It's questionable if Merfolk really needs this, as it already is a pretty tight package with its lords.

>>55118904
Is...is mono blue aggro coming back?

>>55118914
Legacy folk? no.
They will use the new legendary as it is good!kira with all the dexay running around.

>>55118904
What would you even drop for this in mordern? The deck is super fucking tight.

>>55119109
>3 mana do nothing unless you cast another merfolk
>Aether vial doesn't cast
There's no reason at all to run it

>>55119124
Maybe Standard BUG Merfolks or smth?

>>55117073
>there is just one people, and they all have the same opinion
kys

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I don't understand the 3rd ability

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>>55115761

Fact or get FUCKED

>>55117073
I prefer when mythics are bad and the rest of the set is good.

>>55119392
I want bad but fun mythics, not bad but slighly better than vanilla mythics

>>55119360
>rule wise
All Planeswalkers are now Legendaries because of rules changes, so you can have this Jace and Jace Beleren out at the same time. The third ability gives you 3 Jace, Cunning Castaways and two aren't legendaries.
>fluff wise
Jace is making illusions of himself because this is an illusion-y Jace.

>>55118904
Might have a place in my casual Millfolk deck making blockers and millers, but I don't see it speeding up competitive Merfolk decks.

Also, hexproof tokens and a lord that makes merfolk hard to target? That seems dumb if merfolk tokens are a regular thing in this set.

>>55119363
And into my Korlash deck you guy.

>>55119408
I agree with you, but I'd prefer either build around mythics, or cards I can just happily ignore.

>>55119296
Nobody said that.

>>55116759
How R&D sees it:
>2RR for a 5/5 trampler that draws you 3 cards

It's just like back in Kamigawa when creatures with Bushido were costed as if they always had that bonus.

>>55119428
Is this rule change to be effective when Ixalan is fully released?

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>>55119065
>coming back
>implying blue hasn't had the best aggro since prowess was invented

>>55119360
I still see him wearing a single strap overalls.

>>55119636
The best prowess creature is red

>>55119428
>All Planeswalkers are now Legendaries because of rules changes, so you can have this Jace and Jace Beleren out at the same time.
I'd complain that this doesn't make sense, since you're not making a copy of a planeswalker when you summon them. You're calling that character for help.

However, since the last change to the legendary/uniqueness rule where both players can have the same legend/walker out, they already destroyed that illusion a while ago, and are just further muddying their flavor. So who gives a fuck if between both players, there are five Jaces on the board?

>>55119690
You're right, who gives a fuck? Unless you're one of the minority who roleplays as an all-powerful wizard while playing a card game, gameplay trumps flavor on the game table.

>>55119711
shouldn't you be trying to maximize both? The Fantasy of it is as interesting as the mechanics them selves.

>>55119751
How would you maximize both in this instance?

>>55119751
>shouldn't you be trying to maximize both?
Yes, but gameplay needs trump flavor 99% of the time

>>55119768
You could say something like, some of them are illusions, play a planeswalker isn't really summoning them, rather they are lending you a few helpful abilities (like self enchantment?). There are plenty of ways to explain things if you care enough about it.

>>55119769
I saw a good video recently by Lindybeige i think. To make a comparison, seeing someone doing a handstand isn't all that exciting, but seeing someone do a handstand as part of an act (like serving drinks with his feet) on the other hand, is. Neither should trump the other, It's the symbiosis that makes thing most interesting.

>>55116376
we have always watching but it's going away

>>55119874
but id rather there were no handstands and the drink was served w his hands

>>55119983
i don't think you can erase handstands as long as there are either hands or stands.

>>55119363
but... i don't need this in my BUG reanimator deck at all. I need more things to reanimate, not ways of doing it. Shame part the waterveil will rotate.

>>55120025
just reanimate dread cacodemon and act very confused

>>55120025
This is any graveyard, btw

>>55120025
Rip Part the Waterveil. The only card that made a Metallurgic Summonings deck somewhat viable.

>>55116033
Just something for G/W Hatebears to mess around with

>>55118835
elephant's better

You can compensate for land loss in green. Pretty much the entire point of old stompy.

>>55119874
I like to imagine that the player has their unique universe to pull legends out of, so my "Jace" can fight your "Jace".

>>55120154
What about making your Jace and their Jace make out?

>>55120180
Wizards needs to make more hot makeout session cards

>>55120208

There's always the new un-set.

7 Minutes of Heaven

4UB
Enchantment
Exile two target creatures face-down and put them underneath 7 Minutes of Heaven.

When 7 Minutes of Heaven leaves the battlefield, return the exiled cards to their owner's hands.

>>55117789

>ramping is not card value unless you're destroying lands

Fuck man you suck at this.

>>55118022

Well you could've been doing it with servos since AER so.... kinda late to the party.

>>55120462
I used to do it with both clues and servos. But those decks were always a sub-par. This seems more viable with these tokens actually ramping you, them sacing themselves, and you having 2 different cards that produce them and make you win.

>>55120025
seriously. we have reanimation aplenty but the eldrazi are going away. The uncounterable Dino, greater sandwurm and razaketh make a really boring bomb package.

What time do most stores start a Prerelease Tournament?
Been out of Magic for a while and looking to get back in

>>55120997
>the eldrazi are going away.
Not fucking soon enough, good riddance

>>55121011
Usually one midnight release the Friday night.
The one I go to then does 11am, 3pm, and 7pm on Saturday, then just 11am, and 3pm on Sunday.

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>>55115761
Mimic will still be in for this party, right?

>>55121300
Yes. Zendikar 2 and Innistrad 2 will rotate out. Kaladesh and Amonkhet will stay.

>>55121015
If I can't turn 4 ulamog why the fuck am i here.

THREAD REMINDER: Make your stores that play frontier drop Khans and M15 from the format for lasting results. Shitty modern is gonna be great.

>>55121344
Fuck yeah, psuedo lord

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I like it

>>55121544
very green but I wish it were white

>>55121544
>Draw a card
Why the fuck is green the only color that gets to draw cards now?

>>55118904
Merfolks look like the strongest tribe so far, I like the idea of vamp tokens but we're losing all the cards that make the deck good (catacomb shifter, cutthroat, westvale abbey)
If vamps don't get an actual wincon card idk how they're expected to compete with the meta at all.

>>55121568
Green draws cards when it involves creatures. Blue draws cards when it's just outright draw.
Now think about common complains in regards to creatures vs noncreatures

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I actually like these dual land reprints.

I've been wanting sun petal grove for a while.

>>55121665
Dragonskull summit is the only one I don't like better than the original.

>>55121568
>>55121600
You guys know some of the best card draw spells in standard have been blue (and spells), right? Glimmer of Genius ring a bell?

>>55121665
>>55121708
The only thing I dislike is that both Drowned Catacomb and Glacial Fortress have a graveyard of ships. Feels as though the latter would have worked better as some sort of naval outpost.

>>55121708
I like the new Dragonskull Summit because it looks more like an actual rock formation (though one that's been carved) rather than a literal skull on a mountain. Skull-on-a-fiery-mountain is the most boring way to do a RB land possible, I'm sorry.

>>55121815
It being a literal skull is the part that made it black I thought

>>55121800
Glacial fortress I can agree with!

Drowned catacombs not so much. It's black mana and I was expecting it to be a shop graveyard.

>>55121913
Yeah, I agree that Drowned Catacombs works well as a ship graveyard. That perfectly fits black and makes sense. My issue is that they decided to also make Glacial Fortress into one, so now you awkwardly have two representations of a ship graveyard in the same cycle, except one is White because...it's cold?

They shouldn't have both been the same thing, basically. Throws things off.

>>55121834
If you look at the bottom it's very boggy.
So Bog (B) + Mountain (R)

>>55121665
Really hope they'll print the enemy ones in Rivals.

>>55121396
Is frontier actually a thing? I thought it was a meme like tiny leaders

>>55122013
Memes are a meme.

>>55121544
That's it, fuck it. I'm playing monoG stompy.

>>55121544
ENCHANTRESS IS IMPRESSED

>>55122034
Memes are hardly memes.

>>55121015
Don't worry, they'll be back in another two to three years. This time there'll be another super-planar horror that threatens everything everywhere and Nissa uses some bullshit to contact Emrakul-chan and ask for her help.

>>55122013
The only people who like Frontier are those who played Siege Rhino decks and/or spent $15/ea on Deathmist Raptors.

That shit aside, it's not looking like Red will be getting replacements for all the shit rotating out for the monored deck. Red pirate captain costs too much, no one-drops, no playable direct damage. BR might become a thing, though.

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>55122138
>enchantress has shroud

>>55116816
>I want to build tribal Pirate EDH

Sounds like you're the one who sucks.

>>55119711
If only planeswalkers added anything of value to the gameplay... Even by their own NWO standards, PW's don't fall under interactive or anything else for that matter.

>>55116777
Yeah, I can't find it off hand but there's some twitter post or something from one of the art guys that mentions that being a Ixalan goblin

>>55121665
The only one I don't like is Glacial Fortress, and that's because the art for the original Fortress was fucking gorgeous

>>55121396
There are people who still play fucking frontier???

>>55121568
Green is secondary in card draw.

>>55121708
Not sure if I like the others better, but at least as much. Though I agree with other anons that we didn't need two sip graveyards, though I guess one is a graveyard and the other is a fleet that failed to breach the fortress.

>>55121985
>we didn't get enemy cycling lands
>we didn't get enemy hand-check lands
>we didn't get enemy slow lands

I want this too, but since the scary lands they don't seem to want to give us a full cycle of lands. One group gets the rares, and the other get the shit Tarkir downgrades that don't give life or some other meh uncommon. Maybe with core coming back we'll get all 10 of the taplands as a regular printing.

>>55122379
Thanks MaRo :^)

>>55120180
>two different arts for the Jace tokens
>facing each other, both really awkward and longing
>art spills from one token to the other

>>55119360
How can they be this stupid?

With Doubling Season you can just have infinite Jaces... 4 at a time.

>>55116033
>give your opponent a land
>get pushed
>without getting a hit in

Seems too risky

>>55122236
The Eldrazi vs Phyrexian set is a given now that they can do one offs.

>>55122236
>no one-drops
Your other points are solid, but lacking in one drops red is not. They've got B(r)omat Courier, Soul-scar Mage, and if you run a high amount of discard tech Flameblade adept. BR aggro would be pretty solid though since you'd be getting push, Scrapheap scrounger, Yaheeni, Cut/to/Ribbons, Bonepicker, Night Market Lookout if you want a black one drop.

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>>55115761
Serious question, is this going to be the worst set to ever be printed? What's been shown so far looks pretty awful, both in terms of tumblr art direction and playability.

>>55118835
Dryad is better in older formats where your opponent is less likely to have basics to search up, like Legacy and Vintage.

>>55122571
No, we just had Amonkhet.

>>55122571
People have been crying "worse set ever" since beta.

>>55122286
not in modern it doesn't

>>55116816
>It's a black man
Wrong corner, mate. Try lower-right. Took me a second to spot it, too.

>>55122571
Following Battle for Zendikar, Kaladesh, and Amonkhet this set looks amazing

>>55122571
>is this going to be the worst set to ever be printed?
No, what we've seen so far hasn't been worse than either Homelands or Fallen Empires.

>>55122571
>tumblr art

Is Amonkhet bad? I thought it was considered good

>>55120462
The problem with all Mechanized Production decks (and I really like them) is the fact that targeted artifact destruction can just kill the artifact that Mechanized Production is enchanting.

I would be better if it was like pithing needle, where you named an artifact as it resolved.

>>55117073
People complain when the mythics are mechanically uninteresting but still tournament viable as that is the antithesis of what mythics are supposed to be.

>>55122571
>is this going to be the worst set to ever be printed?
it can't be the worst because it has dinos

>>55122547
Eh, Village Messenger was good on the play and Gorger's 2 damage meant they couldn't just ignore it.
I'm on the fence about Soulscar mage. His prowess will seldom be a factor and one damage means he can be blocked all day without much issue by a lot of things.
Flameblade Adept is indeed good in decks with discard, but the problem is there's no payoff to discarding, especially now that the tiny amount of passable madness cards will be gone. Has the one damage problem as well, though menace makes it harder to chump.
I think what's stopping BR aggro from becoming a thing is the deck absolutely cannot have a critical land drop come into play tapped. Dragonskull Summit could be decent, but to ensure it doesn't come into play tapped you couldn't run a desert package. Then there's the other issue where the only other dual land is going to come into play tapped no matter what you do.

Can someone help me find the 'ten or more treasures, you win the game' creature?

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>>55122670
>>55122670
Fallen Empires was awesome, fuck you.

>>55122742
It's an enchantment. Look up "revel in riches".

>>55122737
Soulscar is good mostly because you can expect to see lots of mirrors and being able to kill hazoret via -1/-1 counters from your burn spells is useful. Unless more indestructible creatures appear, I dont think he will be used as much.

>>55122720
It's the other way around.
Because it has Dinos and pirates, WotC thinks it can get away with cranking up to 100 their shit design.

>>55122571
Gameplay-wise it has a long way to go down, the likes of Kamigawa and Battle for Zendikar won't be easy to top (some would argue Mirrodin, but that was just OP, not unplayable trash).

SJW-lore direction has been a thing since Conspiracy 2 at least, where they sought out a fat black female blogger and hired her as a PoC/culture advisor to design characters (they're still keeping her). With that in mind, after Amonketh, all female legendary pirates doesn't seem that bad anyways.

None the less, just wait for Dominaria, I bet they'll fuck up Teferi and Tolaria, just to over-push this bullshit.

I've no idea who they imagine is their audience, but they're pretty fucking far-off.

>>55122786
ooo brew time

Fuck, /tg/

This is so ridiculous. Ever card I see from ixilan I just see more card we already made in a set together years ago. The same mechanics, the same cards, the same flavor.

We made this set. WotC stole more Han half of the spoiled cards from the doc we wrote together. Fuck.

>>55122407
I mean it's just a fact, anon. Green gets to draw cards because it's the secondary color for it.

>>55122846
Get fucked, custom card fags.

>>55122846
Next time - don't design such shit cards.

Maybe they'll steal something good, so we don't have to keep swallowing shit.

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>>55122846
This set?

>>55122571
It will atleast be better than AKH, the only reason HOU wasn't a complete shit show is because bolas is in it and even then it's the lowest valued set in a long time, also the most boring draft I've ever done, AKH draft was atleast alright but HOU was garbage for everything.

>>55122879
It really shouldn't be, it doesn't need the best creatures and the second best card draw

>>55122879
Green was supposed to be 3rd/4th on card draw, unless they changed color pie again, as they seem to keep doing that on a fucking yearly-basis.

>>55122670
Shut your whore mouth, fallen empires was awesome for tribal play

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>>55122838
>I bet they'll fuck up Teferi

No, not best boy! I will eat my fucking shoes! Just let him be dead!

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>>55115761

MORE LIKE WAKER OF MY DICK!

>>55122885
Burn.dec

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>another Doran
>the golden uncommon Dinosaur weakens your Gishath and Carnage Tyrant
Sucks a lot, really.

>>55122886
I like the lands, hope wizards steals that idea too.

>>55116759
Into Locust God it goes.

>>55116303
I dont think abzan tokens wants party time. The deck isnt as simple as "make tokens in abzan colors"

its a really grindy midrange deck similar to monument. It has a harder time doing anything without the engine but the pieces are a bit more resilient to removal than monument's for meta reasons. Anyway, this card makes tokens but it doesnt really contribute to the plan.
Of course this doesnt mean the card isnt good. 4 mana for 3 lifelinking bodies is novel. I think whether or not the card is good comes down to how the bodies fit in the metagame that emerges.

>>55122956
So it's just another buttfight card? That's pretty lame, especially since most of the dinos we've seen so far tend to be pretty even in p/t anyway, and those that aren't are raptors with more power.

>>55122846
but they made it more diverse, included 'leEbilWhiteVampires that oppress the poor natives and push for even more planeswalkers

>>55122956
Seems weird that this ability seems to be split over two sentences in Chinese.

>>55116679
have you ever played with a clone effect outside of commander? Theyre so fucking awkward which is why nobody ever plays them in constructed

>>55122886
No. It was called Preadia. Had a compass rose as it's set symbol with the 4chan clovers behind it.
Set tribes were pirates, Merfolk, lizards (dinosaurs), knights (crusaders)
Basically there were primitive people and others trying to force their beliefs on them.
We made merfolks blue and green
Pirates were grixis
The crusaders were only white and not vampires so I guess that different
The primitives DID worship the dinosaurs though and were explicitly Aztec/Mayan

Today I just got upset because we made walk the plank, 1B destroy target non-merfolk

>>55123019
>leEbilWhiteVampires that oppress the poor natives
if they wanted to paint them as the bad guys the shouldn't have made them so cool

>>55119360
this is probably not a good card but its nice to see planeswalkers that arent just + draw a card, - remove a creature, big minus basically win the game

>>55123043
It's a recurring problem bad writers (and Wizards in particular) have. Baral was cool as shit.

>>55122813
Problem is, Incendiary Flow and Collective Defiance are going away. Aggro decks gimp themselves bad when they run creature-only removal.
What's red going to play instead? Open fucking Fire?
I'm pretty sure it was an accident that WotC allowed aggro to be viable again.

I'm thinking of trying some kind of WGU Cat deck based on what I've seen of Ixi so far. Not expecting it to be competitive, but it should win an FNM or two - not that it matters since no one has played standard around here since before HOU launched.
Losing all the duals makes running three color decks a bitch, but I guess it's for the best, otherwise we'd just go right back to the cancer that was khans.

>>55123037
>Today I just got upset because we made walk the plank, 1B destroy target non-merfolk
Uh, wow, what the fuck. I have really sneaking suspicions this is a lie or an absurd coincidence even with the other stuff. I have a really hard time believing two different sets of designers thought a top down walk the plank card would be a doom blade.

>>55122949
>merfolk tribal
>made them green
>gave them a counters matter mechanic
>in a format with solemnity
Wew

>>55119360
I bet has a nice, tight asshole ;)

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Oh boy.

>>55123119
Yoooooo

Where my R/U boys at. I need a Orc Captain legendary god dammit

>>55123019
>>55123043
honestly making the vampires on this plane conquistadors is fucking cool as shit aesthetically and also a commentary on the nature of colonialism.
I feel like the plane-specific twists on evergreen designs have been pretty dope lately, with the bengal tiger dragons on kaladesh and the crocodile dragons on amonkhet

>>55123100
In wizard's defense, I don't see anything resembling mutiny, an ability some pirates had, and our treasure tokens had scry 1 when sacrificed.

>>55121665
Jesus Christ the flavour text on Dragonskull is awful.

>>55123023
That's a comma, anon.

>>55123119
girl*

>>55123252
how even
its a tiny pictures for ants

>>55123233
>Planeswalker calls dinosaurs dragons because most planes have one and not the other
>Pirates pick it up as slang

It's boring, but it's not that bad. Probably just there to justify why they printed it on a plane that presumably has no dragons.

>>55122838
kamigawa was based
people just judged power level relative to the bullshit that was mirrodin

>>55121665
>>55123233
All the flavor texts are awful, but Dragonskull is especially horrendous.

>>55123252
did you just assume its gender?

So has anyone shopped Jace into Tidus yet?

>>55123152
Let's see if they get this card printed:
U - captains bird - flying 2/1 can only attack or block if you control a pirate

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>>55123274
Kamigawa is in my top five, but I will admit that even relative to Mirrodin, Kamigawa had a ton of issues, mostly due to the fact that they were trying to avert another Mirrodin, so interesting mechanics like Splice didn't really get designed to the extent they truly could have, meanwhile many of the cards tended to be overcosted because the assumption was that a subpar mechanic like Bushido would make them worth it. And that's before you even get into the issues with Legendaries. That's not to say it didn't have some great art direction, lore, and individual cards, and Ninjutsu was a really cool mechanic, but it was certainly lacking overall.

>>55123274
Kamigawa was very low powered in general, especially saviors. Too much top down design.

>>55123339
Biggest fucking mistake was calling ninjutsu what it was called. Would have loved to see it show up on non-ninja rogues or wizards or any sneaky creatures.

>>55123366
I'd have gone with Subterfuge, personally.

>>55123358
>>55123339
splice fucking sucked
not saying it was a strong set but It was tons of fun

>>55123274
Power level was a concern for Kamigawa, but the flavor was a much bigger problem for most people.

>>55122909
>Green was supposed to be 3rd/4th on card draw,
Green has been second on card draw for years. Like, before the 8th edition frame even.

Black was only functionally 2nd in card draw because Necropotence and Yawgmoth's Bargain were mistakes.

>>55123366
There's nothing stopping them from introducing the same mechanic with a different name.

It's a neat mechanic, but it's really narrow and it means making the set it's in not have too many ETB/LTB effects as well as creating a bunch of small, cheap creatures that serve as targets, otherwise no one will want to use the mechanic.

In all honesty, they could make sets better if they stopped caring about limited so much.

>>55123400
people didn't like the flavor?

>>55123400
We call those people plebians. Settings based exclusively on cultural tropes rather than the interesting parts of said culture are cancer.

>>55123366
They regret Ninjutsu and Bushido having names with such heavy flavor baggage. Kamigawa prioritizing flavor to the detriment of gameplay is the running theme of the entire block.

>>55123440
People expected naruto but got a western interpretation of japanese myth

>>55123440
People didn't grasp the flavor. WotC went too deep with the Shinto parallels and Japanese folklore for the average player.

>>55123478
there is not such thing as too deep
>>55123477
fuck those people

>>55123401
Do you honestly think Necro and Bargain are/were the only card draw in black?

Black was meant to do everything for a price, except touch artifacts.

They stole half the shit of off black and gave it to other colors instead with their NWO.

And no, Green was never meant as 2nd in card draw before NWO, there are very minimal number of card drawing in green up to Future Sight and onward, unlike in black.

I am not saying Green shouldn't be able to draw cards - in fact, I believe all colors should be able to draw cards to a certain extent, because it's the best thing you can do in Magic and thus shouldn't be excluded to 1 or 2 colors. However, I strongly hate nu-magic design choices as instead of solving problems they just swapped places, moving strong shit onto other colors from Blue/Black and moving broken shit of off instant/sorcery onto creatures/planeswalkers.

>>55123444
We call those people "the consumers."

>>55123252
>girl orc
Okay, cool, whatever.

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>>55123500
>with their NWO
I don't think you grasp the concept of NWO.

>>55123499
There demonstrably is.
People have to buy Magic for Magic to keep being made. Pandering to a niche market is fun and all, but it's a business.

>>55123477
Not really. Anime was huge at the time, and while most people expected samurai and ninja when they heard that there would be a Japan inspired block, there was also a huge number of people who were off put exactly because they expected it to be a Naruto block.

>>55123500
>NWO

NWO is just a policy about the complexity of commons.

http://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/making-magic/new-world-order-2011-12-02

>>55123400
>a much bigger problem for most people
MTG is a card game first and foremost, and people mostly play to win. Flavor is important but still a secondary thing, people want strong cards to put in their decks and back in the day you either pulled jitte, yosei, maybe breach/goryo's vengeance io you got crap.

>>55123434
Add warrior or knight to all samurai.
Add rogue to all ninja.
Now we can play with our toys.

Then make functional reprints of the ninjas with Sneak Attack or something. Dump the keyword on scouts and assassins too.

>>55123149
Tiger dragons make me want to go back... A set where an artifact-fueled expedition gets fucked by wild Kaladesh would be nice.

>>55123643
Casual players are a much bigger market than tournament players, anon.

>>55123673
Casual players still go to fnm and game nights. Also, tournament players are smaller in number but them and the secondary market are the main pull for the game's economy.

>>55123856
>the secondary market
The secondary market, as its name implies, doesn't directly benefit WotC.

>>55123856
>Casual players still go to fnm and game nights.
No. Most casual players don't ever attend any kind of tournaments.

>>55123932
It indirectly does though, so WotC doesn't care. Everything in the secondary market has to come from packs

>>55123274
Biggest problem was that it mostly interacted with itself and not other sets. There's some big attempt to push spirit tribal through kami, yet they were so weak a spirit deck today will prefer using Innistrad stuff.
Let's not even start with arcane and splice which were even harder to work with. It's the same issue we have with Lorwyn and tribals, where the ideas behind the mechanics might be good but they implemented it awfully which means they'll never try it again. Mirrodin's mechanics can all easily be bought back and very successfully on the other hand.

>>55118558
exert is decided after declaring attackers, senpai

>>55124082
>There's some big attempt to push spirit tribal through kami
Even the Spirit tribal stuff was pretty parasitic at the time. Spirit just wasn't a very common creature type before Kamigawa.

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>>55116033
>no haste
>better than Goblin Guide

>>55124191
It, in fact, has inverted haste.

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>>55124141
>as it attacks

>>55123932
Oh, but it does. A healthy, thriving secondary market encourages an LGS to keep product stocked and so increases a product's presence, which draws in customers for said product.
Having both sealed and single product at one location also serves to increase customer loyalty and retention.
When the LGS is healthy, it's able to sell more product, which benefits WotC.

>>55124245
that means it has to trigger, then. so i wasn't necessarily wrong, but the copied glorybringer would already be tapped in that case

>>55122886
Cruel Twist + Devoted Druid = ???

>>55122949
GG to kill any land you control, huh?

Must have some jank uses somewhere...

>>55124379
This is an interaction a lot of people don't understand, and probably one wizards intentionally doesn't talk about a lot because it does encourage speculation and hoarding unfortunately. Stores are the ones who buy up the product in bulk and a lot of that product is where they get their singles from to sell on the secondary market.

>>55124409
The triggered ability goes on the stack after the attack is declared, but the Skinshifter will always miss the opportunity to exert it.

>>55123119
cringe flavor text is so strong this set

>>55118914
>I'm always annoyed to see hexproof creatures. I think it dumbs down the game considerably.

This. Hexproof is an actual badly designed ability that should be removed from the game. Same with indestructible. Even Shroud was better, because at least Shroud was a tradeoff. Hexproof is just "your opponent doesn't get to do anything clever: the ability".

It was a clarifying experience when I played Eternal and it has a version of Hexproof called Aegis that's basically one-shot Hexproof: it counters the first spell or ability that targets the creature, but does nothing else after that. And even that extremely nerfed version is overpowered.

>>55116759

Oh look, they reprinted Balduvian Horde

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What the fuck am I reading?

>>55124512
I remember they said they'd been working more with giving temporary hexproof, kind of like how they're using indestructible over regenerate right now, rather than outright all in hexproof but they haven't done it all that much.

I actually really like that one-shot hexproof thing though. This kinda already exists but it's not keyworded (Kira type ability). I could see it being a thing.

>>55124571
STAP

>>55124571
Deathless Ancient 4BB
Creature - Vampire Knight
Flying
Tap three Vampires: return Deathless Ancient from your graveyard to your hand

I don't like white men, is this the Plane for me?

>>55124441
Unless you're trying to do that jank in Standard, you're better off with Sylvan Safekeeper.

>>55124571
italian, i don't know the language but i think i can understand some of it.
>flying
>tap three vampires you control: return ancient inmortal (literal traduction) to your hand from your graveyard

>>55124649
no, you should have stayed on amonkhet

>>55124673
It does have the added benefit of having the land die as a creature.

>>55124626
>>55124685
Thanx. Confirmed limited jank

>>55121722
>pay 4 draw 2 scry 2

That's trash and you know it.

>>55122886
how does crew work here?

>>55124852
Green draw must be even shittier then because its sure not seeing any standard play, therefore the complaint that green's draw is getting too good is still totally and completely unfounded. And don't even try to talk like green draw versus blue or even black draw is a thing in eternal formats.

>>55123037
please someone post something from that set

>>55124953
and plunder

>>55124953

The same way it works everywhere else?

>>55116033

I would totally brew with this in some other format. I'm thinking Tunnel Ignus and Invader Parasite.

>>55124953

I assume the mana symbols are an error and they're just supposed to be numbers.

>>55125036
So a really shitty, unfocused burn deck.

>>55125108

I could add Path and Ghost Quater to make a shitty, unfocused Naya deck.

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>>55124953
This is the common sheet that I saved a while ago. It should explain some things

>>55125033
>>55125071
>the creature you just tapped gains your choice of flying or lifelink
yeah that's really useful thanks

>>55124571
>Tappa tre Vampiri
I dunno why this made me laugh.

>>55122886
Why do none of those Vehicles have P/T and why the fuck do they give the creatures crewing it stuff like lifelink when the creatures are going to be tapped? Also, calling them Ships just for flavor without changing the mechanics? Seriously?

>>55125159
oh, it's like multi-equipment, cool

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>>55125167
This is the uncommon sheet. It looks like "Crew" here is a cost to attach creatures to the artifact. They aren't vehicles like on Kaladesh, they're basically equipment that can be equipped to multiple creatures.

>>55122886
Fuck! Whoever made these has used one my art pieces! I feel complimented somehow.

>>55125176
You'll notice none of them actually are vehicles. These were actually made prior to Kaladesh and happened to use "Crew" as a term to mean something completely different.

>>55124976
Who cares about Standard lol.

>>55125264
Oh damn, my bad. I didn't even stop to think that these might have been created before Vehicles became a thing.

>>55125199
>they're basically equipment that can be equipped to multiple creatures.

This sounds hundreds of times better than what we got.

>>55125365
Read the whole post, its not that long. I already factored that deflection in.

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AYYOOO HOL UP WHITE BOI

>>55116759

If it wasn't Random Discard it would be good, maybe even worth being Mythic. Draw Three, Pitch your two worst cards, and have a 5/5 trampler.

But no, that Random kills it.

>>55125492
>Draw Three, Pitch your two worst cards

That's not the Red way.

>>55125529
This, red is LE RAMDUM XDDD color that gets 999 shit random cards out of 1000. And the one that is good is Chaos Warp.

>>55125483
That's a legitimately fun card.
Also, taking another Hostage taker Hostage seems weird.

>>55125529

Right. You'd pitch your two worse cards, then draw three. That's the Red Way.

>>55125592
>when CARDNAME enter the battlefield discard two cards, then draw three, if you discard 2 cards that share a type put two +1/+1 counters on CARDNAME
Now, THAT's a strong mythic.

>>55125586
Trust no one, not even your self's self.

>>55125804
Yeah. The pump condition is a lot easier to trigger if you can actually pick the cards, and if you cast it with an otherwise empty hand you're getting 3 with no downside.

Honestly, the thing that bugs me most about the card being mythic is that it's just some dudes at a table. Rowdy Crew is probably the single most common pirate thing you could depict on a card.

>>55123037
Preadia is from at least 2013 my google fu only shows two mentions of it. One here. another post here in 2013 asking why it died.

Maybe one of the gds2 alums was here and used the ideas?

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>>55125483

>ywn capture her ship and keep her below decks as a cum dumpster for the lads after a long day of sailing
>ywn fill her hat up with cum and then drown her in it

>>55123499
Flavor that you can't taste isn't flavor.

The best painting on earth is fucking useless of you are selling it to blind people.


Also Kamigawa's flavor wasnt even that Shinto. It was Miyazaki art slapped on abilties that had nothing to with Shintoism.

What does Splice or Soulcraft even have to do with asian animism? Kami arent even ghosts why would they have a graveyard mechanic? How is Bushido a samurai mechanic beyond "good at fighting" something so broad it could be for any warrior type. Most of the furry races were ocs. The story wasnt anything rooted in shinto lore or even tropes from the mythos(it was a lot more Greek myth human hubris vs gods or alien invasiom style , making a crap version of one Miyazaki film doesnt make you shinto).

Innistrad and Alpha took concepts like Zombie Apocalypse, Lightning Bolts, Wooden Stakes, Necromancy and the like and forged them in gameplay.

Kamigawa took a foreign culture and name slapped it on a bunch of parasitic random nonsese. The only well executed flavor aspect was the Ninjas, which isnt surprisingly the only one they returned to and have said they wanted to return to.

Poor flavor, low power level, parasitic design, a mechanical theme that was funamentally impossible to do, a bunch if random mechanics not related at all, tribal useless outside the underpowered block it was in...

Kamigawa was only good in limited.

>>55123856
70% of mtg is played at home.

>>55126250
>ywn capture her ship and go mad from the impossible angles and horrifying jaggedly clothing
>ywn get confused as the universe changes to pathfinder rules all around you
>ywn figure out how her body is supposed to work
Wayne Reynolds was a mistake.

>>55124512
Shroud was a bad idea because it was unintuitive.

People consistently thought it was or played it as hexproof, because a special abiltity that harms you is unitutive.

Imagine if Flying was always high flying. People would naturaly treat it as full flying.

Shroud isnt the answer. The answer is to make Hexproof, like indestrucble conditional most of the time(like regen almost) and on creatures that you need to answer with creatures.

>>55125406
Sounds intensely hard to track.

Vehicles are far simpler and even they can get confusing.

>>55125563
Red is the best color in standard right now and part of the best deck in modern.

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>>55118914
>>55124512
Here come the fun police. I love Hexproof and think it adds a lot of strategy to the game.

>>55126472
Doesn't sound any harder than an anthem that only targets certain dudes. You could just put a counter on it if you really had that much trouble.

>>55126505
Shroud was better.

>>55124512
The problem with Eternal is that because it's a video game from the ground up, there are a lot of edge case ability interactions that don't resolve intuitively.
Magic (more recently, anyway) is much better about having abilities say what they do and do what they say.

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>>55126505
>Taking away interaction somehow adds strategy

>>55126560
Dire Wolf also has no idea how to balance their game

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>>55126587
Finding ways to counter and manipulate strategies and evolving with the battle apparently doesn't count as strategy.

>>55126163
I did find another hit with "Praedia"
https://archive.4plebs.org/tg/thread/24665586/#24670188
Notably, no dinosaurs unless they happened at a different time (natives worshiped Dragons and Hydras). I can't load the image but I'm shocked to see that the walk the plank does, in fact, appear to destroy target non merfolk creature (costed like Rend Spirit/Rend Flash). I can almost buy the premise and factions being similar (3 of the 4 seem very natural to have all together (natives, pirates, conquistadors), and I guess if the set as an emphasis on the sea merfolk make sense too (though Ixalan's merfolk seem to be inland and not oceanic), but I can't believe two different groups of people would land on Walk the Plank as a rend flesh/victom of night type card, considering all the ways that could be interpreted in card form, especially since this set doesn't seem to be tribal based (it kind of makes sense as a design in Ixalan because the set is tribal and the non merfolk rider makes sense there).

>>55126505
Would the game be more strategic if every creature suddenly had hexproof?

>>55126505
Well I'm not the other Anons, but Hexproof certainly doesn't add any strategy to the game.

I really wish they'd just use both Shroud and hexproof, obviously making Shroud cost more.

>>55126587
Ya'll niggas don't know the satisfaction Blessed Alliance brought against the Hexproof Indestructible stuff being thrown around.

Hexproof's fine.

>>55126550
Most people played Shroud like it was hexproof anyway. That was why they made hexproof to begin with.

>>55126642
That's a very stupid question. Nobody even eluded to that.

>>55126645
>making Shroud cost more.
Shit. HEXPROOF cost more. No way I can post this faster than other people correcting me...

>>55126648
>One card being printed allows for poor design choices to suddenly be okay

>>55126652
Most people are stupid. Everyone in my playgroup understood what Shroud did because they read the fucking card and understood that mechanics can have drawbacks as well as benefits.

>>55125406
Pretty sure wizards started with equipment that attached creatures to itself like that crew but they opted not to go for it. I think they said that in a design article on the mothership during Kaladesh. But maybe I'm wrong. I think that's where anybody who starts with the concept of vehicles starts. I assume there were rule issues involving making creatures attached to things or maybe >>55126472

>>55126648
I like Hexproof more when it's temporary or has to be activated. An Instant that can grant Hexproof until the end of turn is cool. A creature that has to pay G to temporarily give itself Hexproof would also be neat.

The key to those is that it becomes more active to protect your creature with them, rather than just slapping Hexproof on a fatty and being ensured of its safety. With it being an activated or conditional ability, that actually adds strategy, since your opponent would have a way to play around it, or could save their removal for when you tap out. The most counterplay you get against hexproof is combat tricks in certain colors.

>>55126653
>eluded
Goddammit, you got me

>>55126694
What are counterspells?
What are disenchants?
What are boardwipes?

>>55126550
Anthems that only target certain dudes are nightmares for tracking boardstates .

No way you could do these at common.

>>55126587
Yes because "Dies to doomblade" was sk cerebral.

I like working to deal with threats as opposed to

draw kill spell y/n

>>55126694
This is how they could do Hexproof right, rather than just pasting it on an otherwise vanilla creature.

>>55126728
Maybe I wrongfully have a higher opinion of the common MTG player than Wizards, but I really don't see how it'd be all that confusing. Like I said, just throw a counter on them to remind yourself if you have to.

>>55126587
>having to deal with a creature via combat
>somehow not interaction

>>55126701
Allude* holy shit. Do people lose their minds when someone doesn't spell something correctly on a board about card games?

>>55126763
>Hurr durr mah dude can't be killed with removal spells
>Let me pants him up with all these enchantments and shit so it's impossible to profitably block/block at all my super speshul creature
Yeah, seems like a blast to play against

>>55126601
I think it's still in beta, technically, although in this day and age that means nothing.

I can sort of live with the balancing, since they can manipulate cards as they see fit without having to justify it by what was printed on cardboard earlier; the pace at which they see fit to do so is troubling though, at least alongside the number of cards that are so goddamn bad and the high deck minimums.

>>55126726
Way to completely miss my point. Yes, counterplay against Hexproof already exists. No, it isn't always that easy, since only 1 color of 5 even gets counterspells, and Boardwipes are few and far between.

Having it be conditional or triggered or tied to another card in some way means that it won't just be sitting there unable to be interacted with unless you were playing Blue and shut it down beforehand or are playing White and have a spell that will destroy everything regardless of how fat it is.

>>55126633
Wow. That is some heavy similaritiies.

Could be covergent evolution, Goblin Artisans independently made Kaladesh basically, but yeah its close.

>>55126825
I dropped the game when they made it clear that the only deck they wanted to be viable was the most expensive deck in the game by crowning Big Combrei the king of the mountain by omission.

>>55126766
Autists and pedants lose their minds over nonsensical shit in general.

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>>55126831
I think you meant 2 colors, anon.

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>>55122907
>he thinks green has the best creatures

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Unf, new toy for mud.

>>55127020
The best creature ever printed is green though

>>55126633
https://archive.4plebs.org/tg/search/username/jeru/

Wow they even had Pirate Jace.

>>55127003
>Planar Chaos

Honestly there are far better examples you could have given outside of there as well, but until Wizards feels like printing a ton of them, it doesn't really matter for dealing with Hexproof.

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>>55127051
You are mistaken.

>>55123281
>if there's anything anon hates, it's bad flavor text- especially the flavor text of Dragonskull Summit, a card from Ixalan

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>>55127051
>and black

>>55126587
>board wipe (R, W, B, U)
>black sac
>target player sacs an attacker
>Deathtouch
>combat damage
>chumping

It's like a red player saying enchantments don't allow for interaction because he didn't bother to splash green or white.

Shroud is probably more fair, if not less fun for the controlling player, but there's strategy in that too.

>>55126761
Lorwynmor block got so hard to track you had proa scooping at pre relase because the board was hard to process.

Skill in mtg should be in playing the game, not on trying to figure out whats going on. Mtg is analog mostly. so triggers, memory issues, tracking issues, combat math all have to be very strictly monitored.

>>55126831
The counterplay to hexproof is creatures.

>>55122120
I've been playing it all year

http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/22-10-16-kaiju/

>>55127094
Your post made me happy inside. You're okay in my book.

>>55127003
Countering spells is primary U, tertiary W(taxing or tucking)
Countering abilities is secondary G

>>55127155
And you're still not listening. My point is that Hexproof that is somehow temporary or has other forms of counterplay is better than just slapping it on a creature.

Yes, you can just play creatures the tappening or use one of the answers >>55127112 suggested. (3 of those answers boil down to using your own creatures)


So, since you seem to keep missing it, here's my point: In terms of Hexproof, it being granted by an Instant, Enchantment, Activated ability, or a creature only having it while X condition is true, is far more strategic and interactive than if the creature just has Hexproof printed on it. The latter offers less interaction and is less strategic.

Do you dispute that?

>>55125804
Decent chance that's what Design handed in.

>>55126788
Edicts are cool too.

>>55127238
Same is true for any ability though.

>>55127238
Yeah conditional hexproof is more flexible to design with, which is why wotc uses it. But hard hexproof isnt as insane op as folks make out.

>>55127296
but most other abilities don't restrict every card type except one.

>>55127315
I don't think anyone here was making it out to be OP, just not very strategic. Which it really isn't. It's a keyword that's specifically designed to allow you to not have to worry about creature, since you know your opponent can't mess with it as easily.

But as soon as somebody says that the only defense everyone had was to list the handful of things that actually interact with hexproof and try and say 'get gud' like this is about it being too hard to deal with or something.

>>55127315
I don't think people are mad about a single hexproof creature hitting the board. I think they have experience against 100% hexproof decks or Stalker control decks that negate their anti-hex cards.

I agree with you though.

>>55127354
There's enough non-targetting answers for hexproof in all card types that I don't think that's being fair.

Pyroclasms, edicts, Pernicious Deed, Wrath of God, etc. Hell, even shit like Despise counts.

That's like when people say that Planeswalkers don't have enough answers even though all creatures and direct damage gets rid of them.