Session ruining actions

>>55109625
Prepare better encounters/adventures and be prepared for every contingency. Don't outright force the players to follow a predetermined path and instead make it so that the predetermined path appears to be the most convenient way to proceed to the players.

>>55109625
Have their actions have consequences. Burn down the fortress? Now you have the original owner, a prominent noble, pissed you destroyed his property. Kill a quest giver? The Law is on your trail now. Poison the Air? Better hope the wind doesn't take it where you dont want it.

>>55109625
Also, it's very easy to shut down all of those attempts.
>"We set it on fire and watch it burn to the ground!"
Burning down an entire fort, even if it's made out of wood, takes a very long time. Hinting this to the players or outright giving them an in universe time limit (from the quest giver, for example) should solve this.
>Or maybe they need to get information from someone to go on a quest and instead just kill the person because reasons.
Don't make it a good idea to kill the target. Make there be clear consequences. This shouldn't be that hard.
>Or even something like finding a dungeon and pumping poison or something into the air to kill everything inside.
Reward the players for using an alternative solution by making it work for a couple of the first rooms of the dungeon, but having the geometry and ventilation of the dungeon prevent the gas from reaching the inner areas. Also punish them for not thinking it out by having the first rooms be filled with the gas that they now have to somehow deal with.
>Or trying to hire miners to create an alternate entrance.
Mining is a time consuming process. Would the inhabitants of the dungeon really just sit around and let the workers make their tunnel during the course of likely several days?

>>55109625
>You can call me a bad GM

Okay. You're a bad GM. You're clearly more interested in having the PCs act out your pre-planned script than letting them roleplay. Write a book.

>>55109625
>"We set it on fire and watch it burn to the ground!"
Okay. Hope you like ashes for loot though.

>Or maybe they need to get information from someone to go on a quest and instead just kill the person because reasons.
Then...you failed to get the info. Guess the questgiver'll be pissed.

>Or even something like finding a dungeon and pumping poison or something into the air to kill everything inside.
Good luck. Poison immunity is common. Undead, Constructs, Oozes, Plants, etc.

>Or trying to hire miners to create an alternate entrance.
Clever. I'd allow it. It will take months/years, but they can do it. And it'll probably land them in the middle of some shit, both with whoever owns the land and whatever's lurking below.

>>55109625
>Players need to get inside of a fortress to kill a monster. It happens to be made out of lumber.
>One player may go: "We set it on fire and watch it burn to the ground!"

What do they set it on fire with? How do they ensure the monster doesn't escape? If the monster built the fortress itself, why isn't it on the lookout for invaders, or have minions to do the watching?

>Or maybe they need to get information from someone to go on a quest and instead just kill the person because reasons.

They haven't circumvented the quest. They've straight-up crippled it. If this was a paid job, they're not going to get any money. If this was a save-the-world job, then they've doomed everyone unless they can find some other way to get the same information. And if they can't find another way, expect all their allies to turn on them for ruining everything.

>Or even something like finding a dungeon and pumping poison or something into the air to kill everything inside.

Your first mistake was giving the players access to poison gas. Your second mistake was not sending the players down into the now-poison-filled dungeon to collect the items they were supposed to retrieve in the first place. Your third mistake was not including pits, chasms, crevasses, and other fissures into which the poison could sink, and leave the rest of the dungeon unaffected.

>Or trying to hire miners to create an alternate entrance.

This is fine, so long as the players realise that miners are expensive civilians, that mining is slow, hard work, and that any sapient creatures inside the dungeon will hear the miners digging long before they breach the dungeon's walls. By the time work is completed, the players' new "back door" could be just as dangerous as the front entrance.

>>55109625

Your examples assume

A: The monsters in said adventure are static beings sitting in their designated rooms waiting to be killed.

B: The characters are in a world devoid of any consequence.

>One player may go: "We set it on fire and watch it burn to the ground!"

Why are the monsters sitting around letting people set their fortress on fire? Wouldn't they put the fire out ? Attack the people trying to cause the fire? Sally out of the burning fortress and attack whoever caused it?

How do you set a fortress on fire? It's not as simple as lightning a camp fire underneath it, these things would have been built fire retardant. You'd need artillery and then you'd need to protect the artillery.

If the goal is to kill one monster setting fire to the place it's living would just cause it to leave so the monster can just escape and they fail to kill it.

>information from someone to go on a quest and instead just kill the person because reasons.

As a rule it's a good idea not to revolve the game around players needing to know certain information. If they know it they know it if they don't they don't. If they need to know it just tell them. Likewise killing random people will have obvious consequences in any society.

>Or even something like finding a dungeon and pumping poison or something into the air to kill everything inside.

Assuming a fantasy setting there's numerous beings that can inhabit a dungeon that would be entirely immune to poison such as undead. This assumes everybody just sits in the dungeon and waits to be gassed to death rather than leaving, through one of the multiple entrances, and attacking the people pumping the gas in. And how do the players get this gas pumping device anyway? It would cost an enormous amount and potentially use technology not even available to create enough poison gas to kill an entire complex. Considering also such a complex would have multiple methods of ventilation built in.

>>55109625
rape

I don't know why, we are all friends and we joke about getting raped all the time. But when it involves an NPC it suddenly becomes awkward.

>Punish them

Seeing this as the general advice.
The problem with that is that I still wasted all week trying to put something together and we have five hours to kill.

>Fortress is burned down and they get ash for loot
>They get arrested and are thrown into prison
>etc

Okay, but... Then what?
Do I just end the game?

>>55109966
Listen here you little faggot, if he was a player saying he did those things you would start flopping your ugly mantits around going on about "BUT MUH SKILLLLLLLSSSS MUH POWERS ABLOOBLOOOBLOOOOOO"

>>55110091
They get sent to Fantasy Alcatraz, being dangerous adventurers and all, now they have to escape.

>>55109625
>Players need to get inside of a fortress to kill a monster. It happens to be made out of lumber.
>One player may go: "We set it on fire and watch it burn to the ground!"
"The monster is now loose, furious, and charging RIGHT FUCKING AT YOU. So is everything else that's house you just burned down." You make them fight literally every encounter at once, removing a few that died in the fire.


>Or maybe they need to get information from someone to go on a quest and instead just kill the person because reasons.
Unfortunately, this is just a case of players happen.

>Or even something like finding a dungeon and pumping poison or something into the air to kill everything inside.
For this, I have questions for you.
1. Where are they getting this much poison to be able to poison an entire dungeon?
2. Where are they getting equipment to pump in all this poison?
3. How are they powering this equipment?
4. Do your dungeons have literally no other form of ventilation beyond their entrance? Because that's incredibly unlikely (more so if they're man-made structures)

>Or trying to hire miners to create an alternate entrance.
It takes time to mine new entrances to shit. How are they going completely undetected doing this? Where are they finding the money to keep these miners employed? Why aren't the enemies scouting around their own defenses.

Do you want to know how you prevent these things.

You subvert the attempts at subversion. They've thrown out the rulebook, but all their tactics involve you still playing by the rules.

Find the flaw in their plans (thus far, they've been glaring) and punish them for it.

>>55109966
The players need to work with the GM, and vice versa. Saying that somebody is a bad GM because they don't like working with players who intentionally try to upset any planning that the GM has done is retarded.

>>55110091
Couldn't have missed the point harder if the point was on a different continent and you were firing the wrong way.

Don't just punish them, have the world react to their bullshit in a way that both punishes them and makes sense

How the fuck are they burning the fortress down? Why are all of their enemies sitting inside a burning fortress until it collapses? Why are they ignoring these chucklefucks trying to set fire to their fortress? Where are the patrols, where are the leaders? What the fuck kind of fortress is this?

>>55110091
We said "confront your players with the realistic consequences of their actions". We didn't just say "punish them".

For example, the fortress they burned down: why were they sent to kill the monster? Was it dangerous to the local villagers? Did it owe money to the Mafia? Was it in league with the BBEG? And just as important, why did the players accept the job? Out of a sense of moral obligation? Out of loyalty to the quest-giver? In return for money, or other material rewards? As a bargain to save their own hides?

Well, the fortress burned down and the monster got away. The quest has not been completed. The Mafia still wants the monster's knees broken, and they'll be after the PCs too if they don't deliver. And along with broken knees, failure means the PCs aren't going to get paid, either.

The PCs have a chance to redeem themselves by hunting down the fleeing monster, and two very good reasons to do so. This is how you handle these situations: throw the PCs a bone, and give them a chance to make up for their mistakes. Especially if you haven't punished these kinds of plans before - the players need to know you won't pull any punches next time.

>>55109625
>It happens to be made out of lumber.
Why did you do this, though? Why would a fortress be made out of wood? That's like something you learn not to do in Architecture 101

>>55110529
Forts made of wood definitely existed. Sue they could be burned down but they were so far more defensive than nothing and far cheaper than a castle

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>>55110584
Wet wood doesn't burn right? So all you need to do is tell your players there is too much humidity in the area for the fire to burn down the fortress

>>55109799
That's what OP is complaining about, he doesn't want to invent consequences, he wants them to follow his planned quest.

>>55110091
>I still wasted all week trying to put something
RECYCLE YOUR SHIT. Christ, man, this is DMing 101.

>we have five hours to kill
Recycling solves this as well. This sounds like a recurring problem for you, surely you have some planned content from previous sessions that hasn't seen the light of day. Use that. Hell, even if you don't have that, maybe there was a previous game that your current group wasn't a part of where there was a cool quest. Maybe you've read a module before. Maybe you've read a book or seen a movie before. Use that.

If you are so thoroughly incapable of improvising or reigning your games back in, your only option is to railroad.

>>55109625
you're a bad GM. if something you need to kill is inside somethign made of wood, burning it to the ground is the obvious chice, it's not being genre savy or wanting to ruin the adventure.
put some hostages or somethign valuable in there or make the monster become more powerful thanks to fire if you want the players to not burn it down.

>>55109625
Just plop them STRAIGHT INTO room one of the dungeon and roll initiative, works every time.
>they see that it's game time right away
>they are doing things and talking in character right away
>they are using skill checks and discovering clues right away
>they are alert looking for monsters and treasure right away
Play to the game's strength.

no more fucking around in the purgatory quicksand of the "starting area tavern" getting into pointless bar brawls that spiral out of control and stall the game into oblivion

Wow, guys, it just occurred to me: we hear a lot about players who treat TTRPGs like videogames, but never about DMs who do the same thing. And yet, here's a DM doing exactly that. As soon as you realise it, every dumb decision OP made suddenly makes sense.

>My players burned down the fortress that all the monsters were in!

Of course the monsters just sat inside their designated dungeon and burned. That's what videogame NPCs would do!

>My players killed an important NPC! Now what?

Should've marked that NPC "essential". Now the players have broken the quest script, and rendered the main quest unwinnable!

>My players pumped a dungeon full of poison gas!

As we all know, NPCs are incapable of adapting to a player's overpowered tactics, or engaging in basic self-preservation behaviour

>My players hired miners to dig into a dungeon!

Of course these miners dig like they're in Dwarf Fortress, and bore into the dungeon in no time. The NPCs inside are caught completely off-guard, because their scripting has them expecting the players to enter through the front entrance, and they are incapable of adapting to the players' sequence-breaking.

It's another episode of Why Won't He Just Ask His Players What Kind Of Game They Want and decide if they want to follow the plot hooks or someone else should GM.

>>55109625
It's your fault for not having a contingency plan.

>>55110684
Hell, if OP really wanted, they could just recycle the very encounters they've complained about in this thread, only this time with the planning and forethought in place to counter the party's shenanigans.

>>55109966
this

>>55109625
>How can I prevent these things from happening?

Play videogames with invisible walls. You are clearly uncomfortable with the inherent freedom in RPGs.

>>55109625

I mean...All 3 of those things the monsters inside should be prepared for...

If it's a wooden fort...don't they just have water to put fires out with...and don't they have lookouts shooting the pcs while the pcs set fire to stuff?

Doesn't the person have some sort of armed guards, or some reason that the characters themselves would be opposed to killing them?

How the fuck do players have enough gas to nuke an entire dungeon? Or the time and money to hire an entire mining operation that the monsters somehow don't hear/notice? If they have that sort of expendable time/money, sounds like they need to have some grander tasks set before them.

>>55110680
OP is faggot then. Play pretend isn't a videogame with set pieces and checkpoints.

>>55109625
>Players need to get inside of a fortress to kill a monster. It happens to be made out of lumber.

Why would you be pissed about players setting a wood monster on fire?

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>another thread that only exists because a GM is too fucking autistic to sit down with his players and discuss what kind of game everyone wants

why do people like this even engage in a social hobby? play video games if you're this useless at communication

>>55110852
DESIGNATED DEFECATION DUNGEONS

I'm glad the whole thread agrees OP is the problem, not the players. You're alright sometimes, /tg/.

OP, just work on your GMing skills. Get better at improv, preparation, etc. The whole reason GMs exist is to respond to the players when something unexpected happens. Otherwise, you wouldn't fucking need a GM, you could just buy adventure books and play it like a video game.

>>55109739
>Prepare better encounters/adventures and be prepared for every contingency.

This is stupid advice, and I urge everyone to ignore it.

>>55110680
Fuck OP then. Tabletop gaming is give and take.

>>55111145
I mean, most of the time in this scenario, the players are being lolrandum shits and murdering NPCs for no reason and then complaining about having no quest hooks.

But in this case? Yeah, OP is being a faggot and failing to be a GM in almost every way.

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>>55109625

Trash GM thread? Sure why not.

>Low magic setting so no casters
>Party has no magic items
>GM throws a monster at us that is immune to non magic items
>Seems confused when we just run away

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>

>>55109625
Oh, we're talking about trash DMs?

>Non magical setting in ancient Rome
>played for 5 sessions
>super vague even after we high roll and ask specific questions
>every lead goes nowhere
>one of the PCs start taking jabs at his poor DMing skills
>final straw is when the PC one ups the DM in roman knowledge
>DM roadblocks us for the rest of the night and says we'll play tomorrow
>get home from work and read the chatlog between the two. DM tells the PC to stop questioning his Ancient Roman knowledge and to know his place. The PC bows out and says this games not for him.
>I tell him that I'm taking a hike
It's weird, the first few sessions weren't bad. But the last 3 were the absolute shits, I guess it was a personal thing but damn what a shitty ending.

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>>55109625
>>Players need to get inside of a fortress to kill a monster. It happens to be made out of lumber.
>>One player may go: "We set it on fire and watch it burn to the ground!"

"You can't, you have to go in"
Easy

>>55109625
Have you like, EVER played a PC? If you are sent to hunt down and kill something inside a wooden box. The very first thing you will think is "burn it down". Why would you, as a player, risk going mano a mano with a spooky monster when you can kill him from afar? As a player you always take the safest path unless you are literally retarded, and in this case scenario, burning it down is the safest path. Like nigga, put yourself in your players' shoes for a second.

>>55110776
>getting into pointless bar brawls that spiral out of control and stall the game into oblivion
every time

>>55111628
>"You can't, you have to go in"
why?

>>55111628
dumb Sheldonposter

>>55111692
"You don't know why."

>>55111769
so how do I know that I have to go in?

>>55111802
"You just know you have to."
"Everyone in order tell me how your characters go into the dungeon."

>I burn the fortress to the ground!
"Mysteriously, the wood does not ignite."
>Why not?
"It seems your fire is not powerful enough to burn this wood."
>Where do I get stronger fire?
"Maybe there's some inside the fortress."

>>55111826
how do I just know? my character is a barbarian with no mystical abilities

>>55112157
"The fact remains that he knows somehow."

>>55112201
you are not making any sense. and yo uare not explaining anything.
Why can't I just burn the fortress? it's made of wood.
you are keeping us stuck here instead of making us progress because of your obsession for not explaining things.
give me a good reason why I shouldn't burn the fortress

>>55112244
Because you can't.

>>55112244
"Your character knows that he can't burn down the fort and that you all have to go in it."

>>55112306
how does my character know that?
Why should my character not burn down this wooden thing when it's the most obvious thing to do?
>>55112291
you're not the DM, stop that.

>>55112306
is he being mind controlled? sounds like a jedi trick

>>55112363
"You're character just knows somehow that he shouldn't try to burn down the wooden fort because he knows that he cannot, and that trying to burn down the fort wouldn't help him enter the fort, which is the thing he knows he must do."

>>55112401
The quest is to kill the monster. The monster is not immune to fire.
That is what my character knows he must do.
You are adding meta knowledge that my character can't possibly know.
We can't go on like this.
You should give me an in character explanation for why my character would decide to not burn down this shindig.
While you think of one I'll play scrabble on my phone, it's much more interesting than this.

>>55112428
"So the rest of you ready to go on without Anon's PC? Good, finally. As you enter the fort, you see..."

>>55112458
if they enter the fort they are going to die when I burn it down aren't they? They should stay out of it

>>55112481
You're character went back to town since you wanted to sit this one out.

>>55112497
what are you saying? I never said I wanted to sit this one out.
I was waiting foor an explanation for why my character can't burn the fort.
But my character is still standing in front of it with a torch in his hand, ready for action as soon as you decide to stop blocking our game

>>55112542
Sorry I have a strict no-phone policy.
Besides it's not fair to the other players to spend an inordinate amount of time helping you understand simple facts.
Enjoy your Scrabble App while we play D&D.

>>55112594
you should have explained your polcies beforehand.
And you should explain your facts if you want people to understand.
I wanted to give you a chance, but you are as bad as they say. I'll have to apologize to Brad.

Jenny, Lisa, I can wait for you in the other room since I'm giving you a ride or I can come pick you up later. Oh you are coming too?
Yeah, it's really impossible to play with this jerk.

Oh tom you're leaving too? Of course we'll wait for you. We can go to a pub and have a few drinks.

>>55112686
I'm sorry you've resorted to inventing imaginary friends to justify your refusal to participate in D&D night.

>>55112756
>>55112686
>>55112594
>>55112542
>>55112497
>>55112481

This is stupid. Stop it.

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>>55109625
Shit GM.

Reward creativity (the point of roleplaying) or just accept that your games will always be incredibly simple affairs that often end up with someone frustrated and disappointed.

>>55112756
>stupid
if you want to railroad this hard, either a. become a conductor or b. play videogames with pre-determined plot points

>>55109625
I've found that most people nowadays vastly underestimate how hard it is to start a good fire. The odds that the place will burn to the ground as a result of a small fire on the outer palisade, or even inside the courtyard, are practically zero. There's a reason why fire arrows were almost never bothered with.

>>55109625

>Players need to get inside of a fortress to kill a monster. It happens to be made out of lumber. One player may go: "We set it on fire and watch it burn to the ground!"

You could easily say that the wood will not ignite. Only a wizard will reveal the reason: it has been magically treated to resist fire! Or if you want, it's the old house of a noble, who had an alchemist treat his wood with a fire-retardant coating.

>Or maybe they need to get information from someone to go on a quest and instead just kill the person because reasons.

Give said person guards.

>Or even something like finding a dungeon and pumping poison or something into the air to kill everything inside.

The toughest enemies are undead and therefore are resistant to poison. Alternatively, there's a wizard inside the dungeon who gives his minions resistance to poison.

>Or trying to hire miners to create an alternate entrance.

Monsters hear you coming and reset their fortifications to meet the party as they bust through the stone. Your smart monsters DO have fortifications... right?