>Discuss

>>55105329
Keep 'em cucked, WotC!

>>55105329
Song of swords soon...

>>55105329
>Kotaku
>blatant /socjus/ baiting
>single line, single word post

And the sad part is people will actually respond to you.

>>55105329
And here I thought D&D couldn't be any gayer.

>Ever buying adventure modules
>Not creating your own like a real man

>>55105329
Can't get any gayer than D&D.

Everyone in high school said it was already queer

>>55105359
Swallow of swords, I suppose.

>>55105329
Better be nerd than queer

>>55105329
DnD is already gay though.

>>55105400
Song of swords is kinda gay, but in a fun, gay-nazi kind of way.
and zells, of course.

>>55105329
>Kotaku

Disregarded

>>55105329
Lets include two page profiles of minor NPCs and talk about how they just want to:
Be a woman
Be a man
Fuck dudes in the Butt
Eat out some other girl

In a medieval faux-imile world, its kinda difficult to be high on Maslow's hierarchy of needs when your town is in danger of being sacked by orcs, torched by some BBEG, eaten by dragons or kidnapped by Drow.

People moreso were stupid, Ignorant or bigoted when they can't write or self-actualize... learn to portray it because its far more interesting than if everyone's OK with it..

I know if I were gay or queer or whatever, I'd be mad that tangentially introducing one or two gay characters to a side quest counts as queer representation.

>>55105329
Meh as long as their stories aren't shit I could care less if there is LGBT characters in their stories.

Character sexuality is largely irrelevant to me. I'm running heroic high fantasy games with a bunch of dudes. Not interested in romantic plots at all. This is just sjw pandering.

>>55105329
As long faggots don't play I don't see a reason to not support Gays and Lesbians to play it.

>>55105666
Isn't all we want to do is just go out and slay dragons and shit?
Although to be fair, WoTC could just say that to get some good PR with a heavily biased left wing press, I expect alotta people there just want to write adventures and make their game fun. its what drives every company really... any successful one mind you.

>>55105329
>implying they're going to force pillow biters in my games
Kek, still a lot of time till they're able to police our thoughts.

>Want to be persecuted so they got Yass queen times
>Want to be normalized
Ok, could you make your mind already? this is tiresome

My only issue with it is that its a corperate marketing ploy to appeal to liberals, otherwise its great

>>55105612
If you were gay or queer or whatever you'll be mad about everything, stick and stones may break your bones but there will be always something that makes SJW mad

>>55105632
The term is couldn't care less, anon

This is going to turn into paizo level of bait
>Oh look, that dude, yeah, is a dude he has dick and beard, tries to pass for a girl and is trying to seduce you, wait you aren't interested? you're a bigot and a homophobe, the town attacks you
This appears in an AP

>>55105329

>by incorporating queer characters and elements into our Dungeons & Dragons™ franchise, we're alienating our socially awkward, neckbearded, basement-dwelling section of the fanbase
>...
>"Dungeons & Dragons Promises To Make Its Adventurers More Queer"

>>55105761
Yeah i think that is why nobody runs APs anymore, except maybe the first few.

A buddy of mine is hyped for Starfinder, but its probably going to go downhill fast unless they realize that progressive stuff that was shit in PF was a bad idea.

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Holy shit, I know it's bait, but does it really fucking matter what goes on at a private game table? The only time what goes on at another guy's game is anyone else's buissness is if they're telling a amusing story of it.

>>55105809
theres nothing wrong with critiquing modern adventure models that handle their idealogical message like the average group of teenagers in a freeform RP

>>55105692

I just want to game. I don't care what players or their characters do with thier private parts. I thought the LGBTQ and LGBTQ Ally badge ribbons at GenCon are fucking ridiculous. Fucking in-out group persecution complex.

Just gender bend all their characters to suit your preferences. What could go wrong?

>>55105329
Bad idea. The neckbeard audience may not necessarily be a pleasant or well liked face of TTRPGs but they are an incredibly dependable and profitable group for GW. I'm afraid that by appealing to outside audiences based solely on identity politics and not gameplay itself GW will gain money in the short term but alienate their long term customers while their new audience will quickly abandon them and flock to the next flavor of the month game.

>>55105329
Great, another game we're not going to able to play when my one LGBT player has a meltdown. We already can't play Pathfinder without them throwing a screaming fit about how sexist Paizo is.

>>55105761
No way. Got scans of this? That's still beyond the pale for me, not sure I believe you.

>>55105893
Stop being a faggot and let people support others.

>>55105913
GW? Retarded people pity you.

>>55105957
Not that guy but he is letting people support others he just expressed his dislike for it.

>>55105761
What AP?

>>55105971
Welp I feel retarded now

>>55105761
I need a laugh what AP does that happen in?

>>55105364
False dichotomy - you can do both. Swing both ways, if you will.

>>55105997
Other Anon, but calling someone having "persecution complex" sounds exactly as going against supporting it.

Nothing to discuss, targeting emerging demographics makes sense. Your games are still under your control, no one is obligated to use premade adventures unaltered or at all. If you want your settings to be autistic recreations of some idealized medieval Europe where the faggots were always stoned to death, you can still do that. Clearly that's not what dnd is trying to focus on. The entire concept of an 'adventurer' in the ttrpg sense is ahistorical as well, not to mention the dragons and elves and monster-filled dungeons.

>>55106022
So when you cleave, does that mean you are Bi-secting someone?

(If that is the quality of jokes we get by supporting LGBT people into the game, I'm totally for it).

>>55106046
Wait, there were bikers and neonazis being stoned to death in Medieval Europe?

>>55106031
>This sole anon's opinion is literally stopping people from supporting LGBTQ people

>>55105329
RPGs let you do whatever the fuck you want with your imagination, you have always been able to be a polyamorous scalie that mutates gender every 30 minutes.
This is not representation, it's social marxism.

>>55106072
Oh no. Its a faggot. Guess he wasnt stoned to death in the medieval times.

>>55106072
Do you really not see why an LGBT person might not buy it when a company says "you can be anything you want...but all of our NPCs in all of our books are going to be heteronormative, except maybe for one or two token mentions here and there." It doesn't mean much to SAY anything goes if your setting doesn't demonstrate that.

Now, mind, I'm not saying that absolutely every D&D product should now include LGBT NPCs in major roles all over the place, either. There is a line where you cross over from "inclusive" to "pandering".

There's a balance somewhere, and D&D is looking for it. And that's good.

>>55106065
The ones that don't die from disease or not being able to speak the local languages, yeah. Time travel's a bitch, for English-speakers there's really only about a 400-year window where you can go back in time and actually be understood and understand what other people are saying. I imagine the situation is pretty similar with other languages, too.

>>55106178
You are cool anon.

>>55106178
>Do you really not see why an LGBT person might not buy it when a company says "you can be anything you want...but all of our NPCs in all of our books are going to be heteronormative, except maybe for one or two token mentions here and there."
i certainly can't
TTRPGs are all about making your own characters and npcs and adventures
i can see why it'd turn people off if literally their only experience is trying to play preplanned modules at conventions but those are more like video games with little roleplay so they're a bad introduction to ttrpgs anyway and making them more diverse won't change that

>>55106178
I consider people who care about the sexual orientation of people they don't intend to seduce to be predatory and disgusting.

>>55106178
Not a single product should include the degeneracy of sodomites. The balance is the same as the amount of pedophiles that should be included so that it is inclusive.

>>55106178
These assholes don't understand that being LGBTQ is more than just sex. But then again this is TG, and I don't assume they have any kind of relationships.

>>55106364
Don't play a game with false gods, demons and themes about death, religious anon.

>>55105743
Stop conflating LGBT with SJWs. I detest the far left because they treat us like infants.

>>55106364
>anti-pedo on 4chan
lmao where the fuck do you think you are
feel free to fuck off back to normiebook anytime

>>55106178
Most modules I've run haven't mentioned the sexuality of the NPCs unless they are in a relationship and it has bearing to the story. It's entirely possible for the DM to just assume some are homosexual rather than straight.

That being said, I remember there being LGBT NPCs as early as modules in the 90s, so I'm not sure there was a problem here to begin with.

>>55106178
>Do you really not see why an LGBT person might not buy it when a company says "you can be anything you want...but all of our NPCs in all of our books are going to be heteronormative, except maybe for one or two token mentions here and there." It doesn't mean much to SAY anything goes if your setting doesn't demonstrate that.

remember that adventures are for DM's eyes only, so including LGBT character into it does not really work for your argument here as most LGBT people in the community won't see these characters or know there gay. I guess what they should have done is put some LGBT characters into the sword coasts adventurers guide to demonstrate what your talking about but its too late now.

>Now, mind, I'm not saying that absolutely every D&D product should now include LGBT NPCs in major roles all over the place, either. There is a line where you cross over from "inclusive" to "pandering".

We don't know that they wont just be pandering, and even if there not, there is the social justice crowd who will not be happy no matter how this plays out and they are the most vocal on this shit.

>There's a balance somewhere, and D&D is looking for it. And that's good.

There is no balance that will work for everyone. Someone is gonna get left by the wayside in this shit. It would have been better to avoid that and not bring it up and potentially lose customers then pander to people that we don't know if there were gonna buy your game in the first place.

>>55106452
He is not a normie. I never heard a normie talk about sodomites, unless they are religious-nuts.

>>55106472
religious nut normies are still normies
and they still don't belong here

>>55106178
>Do you really not see why an LGBT person might not buy it when a company says "you can be anything you want...but all of our NPCs in all of our books are going to be heteronormative, except maybe for one or two token mentions here and there."

No, I do not. There is nothing token about having these people be rare ... they are rare. To expect to be ridiculously over-represented in something created for mainly white male heterosexuals is silly.

>encouraging women in the medium is a good thi-

>more queer
>a disgusting hag who kidnaps young women and torments them for her own sexual gratification has been causing havoc in a small town
Imagine. An Ugly, Lesbian Villain.

>>55106178
>heteronormative
Anyone who uses this word unironically is completelu brainwashed.

The word you're looking for is "normal".

Nobody in the medieval fantasy world or this one wants lunatics who can't figure out what pair of genitals they have running around screeching about how people don't accept them enough.

>>55106178
I really don't give a hoot who my generic quest giver shags or prefers to shag in their spare time
Transexuals are also out of place in a setting where you can just magic your bits into the other set practically on a whim
A character that's male on Wednesdays and Fridays but not when its raining because of the ring they wear is quirky and vaguely interesting
A character that spent their childhood as a male but decided it was better to "act as a female" is not and invalidates the argument against gender roles

>>55106494
White males are rarer in comparison to other races, but you see them in everything.

>>55106542
But anon, Orc Hordes always outnumber the human villages they sack

Literally could not give a damn.

My game group has straights gays and bis and we all get along fine, we don't ever touch the actual published adventures beyond vague setting information anyway and just do our own thing. I myself am bi and I've never felt unwelcome at any table I played at, real or digital.

This whole 'inclusivity' thing is bullshit and always has been, we don't need some company virtue signalling to help us get along.

And anybody who's so obsessed with their sexual orientation that they refuse to play with something unless it specially panders to their group isn't worth trying to please anyway.

>>55106542
> but you see them in everything [they created or developed]
Fixed that for you anon, free of charge!

>>55106557
True, but white males are like everywhere when you compare to elfs, and drows, and dwarves.

Seriously though, I think people that are against this are usually those guys that only want to play male human warriors. They want a life so vanilla, so basic its almost grating.

>>55106542
Because white males make up the majority of TTRPG fanbases.

>>55106494
And now they are making stuff for gays and lesbians. Its not just for white straight guys. Its not that hard dude.

>>55106542
Go immerse yourself in the fictional works of any middle eastern or asian country
I bet they have a lot of middle eastern or asian characters in them

>>55106618
>>American TTRPG

>>55106596
>They want a life so vanilla, so basic its almost grating.
That happens when you've experienced the opposite of every person at your table playing a furry special snowflake race.

>>55106635
Yes, and those countries are not America, which has had a fairly diverse population for many years.
You don't actually have an argument, or at least it's on the same tier as people who argue that characters in manga and anime are white.

>>55106639
The most popular TTPRGs are American.

>>55106642
I still think this is an internet meme.
I have never actually seen this irl, or heard of it, outside of people who try to bring pcs who grossly violate the tone or themes of the game.

>>55106596
I prefer to play non human, non white, non straight characters, but aside from the non-human I don't expect ANY of those characteristics to come up in game because that's not why I'm playing.

>>55106661
I live in a primarily white city in the southern hemisphere
Most of the people I interact with are white
Even roughly half of the foreigners i interact with are white
Why is it unacceptable then for me to make most of my human characters white
If i even bother to mention skin color
Remember we're talking about a med

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>>55106671
>>In America
Most countries have their own RPG systems rather than use american ones, either because they don't like it, or the translation is terrible.

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>>55106284
>i can see why it'd turn people off if literally their only experience is trying to play preplanned modules

It basically boils down to "talk is cheap". It's easy for a company to SAY that they're in favor of LGBT stuff, but without publishing things then they're not demonstrating it. Consider it as being roughly equivalent to, say, a politician who says "I promise to protect the LGBTQ community!" but then once he gets office he doesn't do a single thing for them.

And indeed maybe bans them from serving in the military. I really thought Trump would wait at least a year before walking back on that one.

>>55106297
By that logic, you shouldn't care if EVERY NPC in D&D is made into the gayest thing since the impossible lovechild of Elton John and Freddie Mercury.

>>55106467
True, but given that the default assumption of society tends to be "straight" (in fairness, biological imperative means that this is almost always the case anyway), it's easy to see why people would assume that if no sexuality is mentioned, then the NPC is straight.

Even in settings where this is explicitly not the case - Golarion for example - references to this fact are usually buried deep in the lore, so deep that even aforementioned impossible lovechild of Elton John and Freddie Mercury would have a hard time finding it, and so the fanbase presumes that instead the NPCs in the setting are generally straight.

>There is no balance that will work for everyone.

No, of course not, but there is a balance that will work for the greatest number of people, and in the meantime the effort to find the balance is, itself, great for marketing capital.

>>55106494
>they are rare

In the US, about 3.8%, though possibly a little higher (as homosexuals in more conservative states are more likely to deny their sexuality). Let's peg it to an even 4% for the sake of simplicty. Do you think that percentage would hold up if we examined the various D&D NPCs in known relationships?

Here's the thing, have women on the dev team, a tranny as the writer, a poof who rides a unicorn to work as the artist, a Jew as a playtester, an autist as the balance guy, a black guy be the formatter I don't care.

But the second you point out their sex, LGBT status, religion, or disability, you are virtue signalling and deserve all the ire and accusations you get.

>>55106635
Why the fuck would you compare the west to those collectivist societies, anon?

>>55106774
>>By that logic, you shouldn't care if EVERY NPC in D&D is made into the gayest thing since the impossible lovechild of Elton John and Freddie Mercury.
Why would anyone care unless it affects personality? No one would fucking find out. It'd be completely unknown to the player, unless you're some kinda fucking prejudiced bigot who thinks homosexuals act in specific manners because homosexuals are inherently different

Which they very well may be, but then you've got a completely valid argument against homosexuals: they're fucking annoying.
I consider straight gays to be the same as straights in terms of friendship, but flaming gays (or metrosexuals for that matter) can fuck right off. Annoying faggots.

>>55106748
Just because you live in a Nazi safezone doesn't mean others do.
>Why is it unacceptable then for me to make most of my human characters white
Why do you want most of the world to be the same? I'm black, I have a fairly strong variety of npcs because I like my players to encounter many things.
Further, this isn't about what players have in their games, but what devs, or publicists really, mandate their media look like.
>>55106619
This.
For many years, you would struggle to find a npc that wasn't "acceptable to the masses" at all. I've had gay npcs in my games before, as long as you don't make it their only attribute, no one (out of adults) really cares.

>>55106774
I mean apparently it's more common in Dwarves and Elves than in Humans, Orcs, and Halflings.

>>55106814
Because he thinks the west is a collectivist society. He thinks only white guys exist in it, until maybe a girl shows up.

>>55106774
I've just gotten into tabletop but if its anything like other nerd hobbies, like comics and vidya, then LGBT are probably over-represented compared to the national statistics.

>>55106774
I don't think "is sexually interested in men" is a particularly relevant part of a character bio for an npc
"Is married to [man]" on the other hand can be useful if that man is also relevant to the story

>>55106519
>The word you're looking for is "normal".

No, it's heteronormative. We're strictly talking about their sexual preferences with regard to gender, so I'm going to use the term that refers to that. For all I know a good portion of these people are into vore, or cock & ball torture, neither of which are "normal". "Normal" is straight sex between a married couple in bed in the missionary position with the lights off for the purpose of procreation. And it's the sickest thing there is.

>>55106536
>Transexuals are also out of place in a setting where you can just magic your bits into the other set practically on a whim

In fairness, that magic's expensive. An adventurer or king(female) might have access to it. A peasant probably doesn't.

Don't get me wrong, I hate Shadra (the female-in-a-male's-body dwarf shaman from Pathfinder) as much as the next person, for that reason - she exists in a ridiculous world of magic where sex-change magic is EASY and yet she uses the most complicated and difficult method of changing her sex to female when really her great quest to become female should be over by level 5, max. So she's stupid. But a farmer or even a typical merchant, probably doesn't have access to the magic or wealth needed.

>>55106178
A statistical minority is an statistical minority. more news at 11

>>55106828
>Nazi

You stop that shit right now.

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If White Wolf has prove anything this is a cover for the quality of future content is about to take a nose dive.

>>55106828
>Why do you want most of the world to be the same?
Few people want to fucking portray things with which they're not comfortable or do not understand. It's draining and one always feels like one is stepping on eggshells to avoid being stereotypical or incorrect about these foreign things.
While many things this is fine with, like fictional factions or beliefs or species, the fact that some people might take offense to your poor portrayal, or may interpret you making the merchant Black as you trying to belittle the North African trading kingdoms by implying Black people can only be economically successful in imagination land, this niggling doubt and worry in the back of one's head can really fuck one up.

I'm not White, mind, I'm Middle Eastern, but this is why I for example am careful with introducing too many women in my stories (certainly not the 50/50 or close thereto ratio you'd expect), and rarely introduce homosexuals or similar.

I do enjoy making racist caricatures of White people though, sometimes. No one really has the balls to call me out for being racist against White people, and most think I'm joking.

I'm not. White people, most of you are wankers.

Posting a new thread with a screenshot of Kotaku or Twitter should get a 3-day ban, 7 if it's a repost.

>>55106859
Just like white people are overrepresented on those same form of media, even though america. You get 98% white people, maybe a black guy, and almost never a spanish/lation dude. Thats not even close to the American statistics.

>>55105329
>Implying dungeons and dragons wasn't already gay to begin with
Topkek

>>55106913
I know there's a larger one, and I request it for purpose of commiseration

>>55106932
What gaming stores have you been in?

>>55106917
>I'm not. White people, most of you are wankers.
Cant hear you over the sound of being the dominant civilization

>>55106178
It's too much when you need your HAND HELD TO IMAGINE GAY PEOPLE IN YOUR FUCKING GAME FUCK

FUUUCK

>>55106892
So where in the "southern hemisphere" are you?
South Africa? Australia?
Why do American ttrpg paradigms affect you at all?
>>55106917
It's only a thing if you rely on stereotypes or have your world take place in a 1 for 1 analogy of real life, which most games do not at all.
In most games, race takes a backseat to ethnicity to begin with, and stupid situations can be resolve early by explaining the nature of the setting to the players (which you ought to if you aren't a shit GM).
I did get shit from a player once for using the African Hero Child legend in a game, tho.

>>55106886
What I wanna know is, if transgenderism is acceptable in a given multi-racial fantasy setting, is trans-speciesism? Like, a dwarf who wants to be an elf.

>>55106954
Dude, go back eating rice or dogs and let the decadents keep talking about hating gays.

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>>55106828
>Nazi safezone
Oh what the fuck. I bet he's a racist too, and a sexist, am i right?

>>55106981
That has been a thing for years, anon.

>>55106886
>No, it's heteronormative. We're strictly talking about their sexual preferences with regard to gender, so I'm going to use the term that refers to that. For all I know a good portion of these people are into vore, or cock & ball torture, neither of which are "normal". "Normal" is straight sex between a married couple in bed in the missionary position with the lights off for the purpose of procreation. And it's the sickest thing there is.
The difference between fetishists and sodomites is that nobody would ever know what a fetishist's preferences are; while a sodomite makes sure everyone does.

Perversion has no place in light and casual company.

>>55106859
I don't think so. I'm struggling to think of even a single gay or bi character in the canon Forgotten Realms, for example. The only two that spring to mine are Imoen and Phaere from the awful BGII novelization, but that's not canon. And awful. I think that queen of Silverymoon might have been bi? The one that Drizzt might have shagged but who also once might have hit on Cattie-Brie?

Then recently in 5e there's been like four or five or so. Which would still leave the number of named homosexual or bisexual characters in the canon Forgotten Realms at WELL below 4%, or even 1%. And of course transexuals probably don't even exist, certainly I can't think of any.

>>55106981
Holy shit that would be actually dope as fuck. Elfboo, where a dwarf thing all elf things are better.

>>55106883
It could for seduce rolls.

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>>55106950
Haven't saved that one, but here's another.

>>55106981
oh wait I forgot in 3.5e there's a prestige class to literally become Trans-elven.

>>55106997
Another anon, but yeah, that seems quite clear.

>>55107003
I'm talking about the actual players. The national statistics are roughly 4-5%. I'm saying that among gamers and comics fans (and thus TTRPG players), the number is probably higher.

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>>55106917
>I'm not white I'm middle eastern
Semites are Caucasoid you moron, you're of the same race as white Europeans except you have a lower IQ and higher prevelancy of spontaneous combustion after saying the words "allahu ackbar"

If you're Persian, not only are you Caucasian but you're also Indo-European
>North Africa
>Black
Berbers are Caucasoid , and non-miscegenated Berbers are white as fuck.
>Middle eastern intellectuals
Lmao

>>55106178
>I am literally being attacked and can't enjoy anything when there aren't fictional people whose blood flows to their genitals the same way mine do and am not being constantly reminded of that fact
The modern lgbtq "community" is a disease

>>55107012
>safecards
What is this shit? What in the fuck is this shit?

>>55107033
So what you are saying is that tabletop players can be quite gay (or lesbians).

>>55106932
I'm the person you're replying to. I disagree.

Black people make up 12% of the US population. Ergo, 1/10 characters in any given show taking place in modern USA should be black.

I'm fairly certain that most shows now hit that benchmark.

>>55107033
>The national statistics are roughly 4-5%.
It's actually about 2% and that's including people who only "feel" a bit gay and heterosexuals who cross dress but don't consider themselves trans.

>>55107010
I'd say most DMs that are okay with seduction would also be okay with homosexual seduction
And the ones that aren't will ignore the stated homosexual preference and shun any player who may attempt such a feat

>>55106886
>that magic is expensive

There are literally cursed items people would be willing to sell for a pittance that do just that.

>>55107055
That sounds literally like the straight white guys complaining in here.

>>55106977
I'm not the person you're arguing with, I was just shutting that shit down because spouting Nazi every time you're in an argument is bullshit.

And I'm part of the LGBT so fuck off if you're going to call me a Nazi sympathizer.

>>55107098
Because they're cursed, as in, most people aren't into that, man. Demand is low.

>>55106774
>>There is no balance that will work for everyone.
>No, of course not, but there is a balance that will work for the greatest number of people, and in the meantime the effort to find the balance is, itself, great for marketing capital.

you replied to the first sentence of my argument instead of the argument as a whole. this tells me you are as intellectual dishonest are you are Representative of the LGBT community.

what i said was

>There is no balance that will work for everyone. Someone is gonna get left by the wayside in this shit. It would have been better to avoid that and not bring it up and potentially lose customers then pander to people that we don't know if there were gonna buy your game in the first place.

this!

>potentially lose customers then pander to people that we don't know if there were gonna buy your game in the first place.

was the important bit you fucking faggot!

I had a friend who was in the closet back in high school and we would play D&D and you now what! He was super into because gay people are not normal, there outcasts and outcasts love D&D. gay shit never crept into the game when we played. this is anecdotal evidence, but it should show how unlike books, movies, tv, or video games, people get different things out of playing a table top role-playing game and putting a fucking faggot sticker on the book to make it more "inclusive" would be a step backwards and drive people away instead of bring them in to the hobby.

>>55107066
What Conservatives need trigger warnings for,
- Things that will cause shellshock and flashbacks to war.

What women, LGBTs, and lefties need trigger warnings for
- Gay jokes, the rape word, loss of a pet, pregnancy announcements, any mention of children, the idea of being unable to reproduce, tampons, and just about everything else.

Triggerbitches get banned from my table and their contact info is dropped on /b/ on the first offense.

>>55107077
17 % of America is latino. Where are our Pedro Kantors?

>>55107054
1. I'm not White just for being Indo-Aryan. Don't be fucking stupid. I don't want to be a 50s naturalized American (or any kind of American in any time period). The notion of Caucasoid/Mongoloid/Negroid is also objectively wrong and stupid and only an idiot would think it's relevant. It's almost as bad as somatotypes (something you probably also believe because I can tell you're an uneducated idiot).

Unlike you, I don't have to prop myself up on average intelligence of ethnicity, because I'm on-track for a PhD in a STEM field of study in a top 30 university, without needing the genetic lottery, whereas you're a failure despite it :^)

Also, Middle Eastern intellectuals are so ridiculously common in history that you'd have to be severely uneducated in history of science not to know. The kind of person who thinks Francis Bacon innovated the scientific method when Ibn Al-Haytham did so centuries prior.

Enjoy being White, I'm sure it's very precious to you

>>55107103
I'm going to call you a retard here for being unable to imagine gay people in your imaginary game without permission from an overlord you've never met, faggot.

>>55107055
Again, the argument is simply that "talk is cheap." If a company wants to claim to be pro-LGBT then it needs to do more than just say that they are, or bury references to gay or transexual or whatever characters into minor NPCs.

>>55107066
For the record, this is well past that "pandering" line I mentioned upthread. While I'm all for the name "Society of Ether" rather than "Sons of Ether", nearly everything else here is just childish.

>>55107134
>>Claims is gay
>>Is a nazi

WAT

>>55107138
Woah, another one. I knew 4chan was terrible, but damn, didn't expect this much.

>>55107069
It's usually closer to 30% for most shows.

>>55107138
>>55107134
>spout an offhand troll comment
>internet defense force to the rescue
>meanwhile >>55107152 is shooting my sides into orbit
Dude, keep it up, I can't wait to see the responses.

>>55107012
>>55107066
I don't think it's unreasonable to ask your DM to just fade to black instead of graphically explaining your character getting violently raped
Although I'd have to ask why you're at a table where rape happens when you're not okay with it

You know that post that explained the repercussions of allowed Marxists and Redditors on /tg/? I didn't think It would have predicted everything so accurately.

>>55107171
Pole here, the fact you toss Nazi around makes you the most disgusting thing in this thread. You have no grasp of history, you were not affected by them, and if you were, you would be the one making this post.

>>55107171
First of all, you know the whole 'alt right' thing has its roots here, and second of all: Just because someone is careful about who they call a nazi doesn't mean they're also a nazi.

and third of all, this is the lowest effort bait I've ever fallen for and I feel foolish

>>55107158
I'm calling you retard cause thats not even the argument you illiterate fuck.

>Still playing games made by Hasbro
This is your own damn fault. Other RPGs just have more thorough support and better rules, with some being even more queer if you swing that way.

>>55107077
National Election Pool's exit polls in 2016 says 5% anon.

>>55105612

Tokenism is really shitty, and solves nothing.
As a queerfag, it rustles my jimmies.

>>55107137
... low demand means shit's cheap, dude. Economics 101.

Wizards shoving politics into games? What else is new.

>>55107205
You should. Though I wasnt the one that was calling the guys nazi before. And yeah, I remembered 4chan was one of the basis for it after I post it.

>>55107203
Typically it's Americans throwing the word "nazi" around a lot.
At least here people just go for "fascist", unless they're talking about, you know, actual nazis or neo-nazis.

>>55107152
>The notion of race naturalism is absurd
Probably because you don't know what it is and have a misconception of race whose implications you don't like.
>Unlike you I don't need to hide behind the average intelligence of your community
I'm amerindian you dipshit
>without needing the genetic lottery,
>Just because you are born of x ethnic background means you have to be stupid a priori
Lmao , first of all that's not how race works second of all you did win the genetic lottery because intelligence is genetics
>Inb4 long winded "lmao you think intelligence is genetic"
Learn how become a teacher , and you'll figure out pretty fast what "gifted" actually means when it comes to your students.
>Sir Francis Bacon invented the scientific method
*Aristotle.

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>>55107196
It's almost uncanny. We dug our own grave I suppose.

>>55107152
>2017
>falling for the STEM PhD meme
>not even Economics grad school in Switzerland with 70k p/a in stipend
dude you should have just went for MBA lmao
it is almost like you are allergic to success or something

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>>55107274
Why didn't we listen?

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To be fair you shouldn't be playing Hasbro's made by committee adventures in the first place. There are some legitimately creative modules made by indie designers that you could be playing instead if you really need something premade. Everyone creative at WotC left a long time ago, and this stuff about queer representation is just a cry for attention.

>>55105364
>Not reading pirated modules and milking them for ideas and pacing using the experience of "professional writers" to your benefit while discarding all of the waste.

>>55107327
Are you me? I hate Pathfinder, but I love going through the adventures and the SRD to mine them for ideas.

> DnD adventures weren't queer enough

>>55107077
>It's actually about 2%

It's actually about 3.8%.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_demographics_of_the_United_States

However, conservatives are more likely to deny their sexuality than admit to it, even when confronted with overwhelming proof (Ted Haggard, natch). So the number is probably a bit higher in the US than 3.8%, though I'd be surprised if it's as much as 5%.

>>55107098
If I thought I could make a buck off of it, I wouldn't sell it for a pittance. If a King(female) came up to my adventurer and asked for the girdle of masculinity/femininity that she'd just found, then she's going to try and make at least a four-digit gp profit off of it.

>>55107137
Actually this is one of the few things that Pathfinder handled well. The aforementioned girdle is still considered cursed, even though its effect is beneficial to some people, because of the other part of the girdle's curse: it's disguised as another kind of magic belt, like a belt of giant strength. I.e., it tries to trick you.

>>55107267
>implying Caucasoid/Mongoloid/Negroid are at all valid descriptors and not just fucking idiotic simplifications of actual genetic divergence in the human species
>completely failing to understand that the entire point of me bringing up the genetic lottery was that averages don't matter when discussing individuals, as they have already had their covariance resolved
Intelligence is definitely highly heritable though, and I don't claim it isn't, I just like riling /pol/ up, especially by calling out the fact that despite them having had a greater probability of a higher intelligence than your average middle easterner, they failed to get it.

But really though
>Aristotle
>scientific method
>the guy who didn't think empiricism was important at all
what the fuck have you been smoking, there's gotta be something specific to which you're referring to justify this kinda shit

Aristotle is as far from scientific in the sense of using the modern concept of Popperian falsification as one could possibly hope.


>>55107284
>Not being a math PhD at 100k starting
Wew, should've hanged out more on /sci/ :^)

>>55107243
Yes. I was agreeing with you.

Sent from my AutismTalk 9009

>>55107139
Fine, whatever, though I feel my response still responded to your point. However more specifically:

>It would have been better to avoid that and not bring it up and potentially lose customers then pander to people that we don't know if there were gonna buy your game in the first place.

I will guarantee that the decision was only reached after at least a few months of market research showed that the D&D community as a whole was not opposed to introducing more LGBT characters (for example, the fact that the gay characters in CoS and SKT received no significant negative reaction). This would also be coupled with research among similar/overlapping fanbases - for example, Star Wars introduced its first gay character years ago and the reaction of the community was "so?". (Then with the Disney reboot they got to introduce a new "first gay character" (it's complicated), and the reaction from the fanbase was once again "so?") Significant numbers of Star Wars fans are also D&D fans, so the blasé reaction among the Star Wars fanbase tells WotC that they can probably get away with adding more gay characters to D&D. Likewise with the inclusion of Alesha and other LGBT characters in Magic: the Gathering, as again the Magic and D&D fandoms have a lot of overlap.

The market research and generally positive reaction to Paizo's Golarion, which is very LGBT friendly, also serves as useful research in that regard.

The point being, there's no evidence to suggest that Wizards of the Coat or D&D will experience any significant loss in customer base by slowly increasing the number of LGBT characters, and quite a bit of evidence to suggest that the reaction with instead be a resounding "yeah, sure, whatever, when are we gonna get Spelljammer?"

>>55107274
/tg/ is pretty hostile to marxist ideas in my experience. D&D in particular goes a long way to encode capitalist ideas into the structure of the game, with concepts like "wealth by level" and expectation of constant growth.

>>55105329
Kek, as if we needed WotC to tell us DnD is for faggots

>>55107467
I feel ashamed having laughed at that

>>55107446
That's because Garry was a very conservative Christian. D&D was supposed to have a very Christian outlook before they removed everything and turned the Alignment system into shades of grey.

A largely irrelevant tidbit of information about any NPCs encountered, but I guess there's no harm in including a minority representation of a statistical minority like that. As long as it isn't being shoved down players' throats.

The premade modules just the way they are, are a minority of what people play anyway, and anyone has the right to make their adventures just the way they want. I really don't care much, since this is something anyone could have done any time earlier during their imaginary adventures, and can do without the guidance of WoTC if they have any capability to DM.

>>55107467
kek

>>55107432

That's kind of the point, though. You're investing time and energy into making changes or additions that your playerbase doesn't give two shits about, rather than focusing on the content that they actually want.

I doubt anyone would have cared if they just introduced more LGBT characters without much fanfare. It's the virtue-signalling of these announcements that pisses people off, because the people who care about this diversification are typically not the ones playing.

You want to normalize gay people? Start by not making such a big fucking deal about us.

>>55107357
No I don't touch that shit.

>>55107432
first off thank you

second: to most of your point marvel keeps pushing there diversity with it's comics and it's comic sales have tanked no indication of that happening with wizards but it is worrying. further more if putting LGBT characters into the D&D community by including them in the adventures get the response of "no negative reaction" instead of a "positive reaction" there was not point of putting it in there in the first place.

>>55107382
You should read a bit more about this subject, accurate and reliable data on the percentage of LGBT demographic is considered next-to-impossible to obtain, they can't even accurately survey the percentage of bisexuals because a enormous amount of bisexuals are exclusive heterosexuals who use the identifier to gain a advantage.

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>>55105329
The main problem is that d&d HAS to be the hyper-kitchen-sink fantasy game while remaining in the very same generic fantasy setting.

It's not worth saving, better just go for a different ttrpg

>>55107327
>Pure wisdom, the post.

>>55107392
>Aristotle is as far from scientific in the sense of using the modern concept of Popperian falsification as one could possibly hope.
It's almost like the scientific method has been a work in progress for centuries where multiple intellectuals improved it over vast amount of time, and claiming that any one man was responsible for it is ridiculous?
>Racial classifications aren't totally perfect therefore macro scale genetic differences between groups do not exist
No, in the beginning of our understanding of genetic we mostly recorded the differences in phenotypical traits between different groups, sure, but the general models we use today match up more with genotypical differences as well as phenotypical. Even if it's the the zeitgeist of modern academia to explain away biological determinism with social constructivism, and to assume race as being only cosmetic differences, the fields of evolutionary psychology and neurobiology are still strong hold outs against anti-race naturalism and anti-biological determining.

It's really only in the west that this kind of conflict occurs, in China something like 90% of geneticists are race naturalists

>>55106178
>LGBT person might not buy it when a company says "you can be anything you want...but all of our NPCs in all of our books are going to be heteronormative,

Holy shit its almost like gay people are a tiny fraction of the population.

>>55107098
>>55107137
I don't think I buy that would happen. It's a luxury good that sells to a small market of people who are REALLY into that, and crafting magic items is a difficult and specialized skill. You'd be able to make a killing selling to wealthy perverts, and wouldn't have a lot of incentive to drop the prices for the average tranny in the street.

And if it turns out that girdles of sex change are cheap and easy to manufacture, then you're probably going to see demand rise as casual sex change is gradually normalised. This is exactly what's happening in the real world as the drugs and techniques people use to pass as the other sex becomes more refined.

The only thing that bothers me about this is the insistence that the worlds of roleplaying games need to precisely mirror the sexual politics of the society their makers. I want to actually try to imagine my way into the mindset of a kind-of-medieval dude.

>>55106886
>No, it's heteronormative
No, it's normal. You're trying to assume, erroneously, that he means normal as equates to perceived societal acceptance. He means normal as in "Not an outlier or minority".

Normal people are right-handed; left handers are (at 10%) a decided minority. That means, in any sort of sampling done for any reason (Be it medical sciences, accesibility testing or just plain old market research) if the representation of left-handers is > 10%, the sample is not representative of the population as a whole, and its veracity can come into question.

Now factor all of what I just said towards LGBT, which according to a 2016 Gallup poll, only came back as 4.1% of the population.

When only 4.1 identify (Openly enough to admit it on a census or poll and not behind a weird username on tumblr or anonymity of 4chan) as LGBT compared to the 95.9%, tell me again which is statistically normal and which is an outlier?

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>>55105329
Sometimes I pity people who build themselves around sociopolitical memes engineered during the last few decades.

How does it feel being instantly repulsed and distressed unless the people making certain type of media don't specifically proclaim to like you and promise to make the things they produce to specifically defend you ?

>>55107611
I don't think dnd rakes in much of the money for wotc
I think magic is the cash cow there and people will continue to buy packs as long as strong cards are printed
Maro himself is an advocate for token representation but the average player won't care in the slightest

>>55107754
I know, white people are so annoying. Its always everything about them.

>>55107655
Its almost like tabletop gamers arent also niche as fuck.

>>55106178
>Do you really not see why an LGBT person might not buy it when a company says "you can be anything you want...but all of our NPCs in all of our books are going to be heteronormative, except maybe for one or two token mentions here and there." It doesn't mean much to SAY anything goes if your setting doesn't demonstrate that.
>vast majority of population isn't gay
>vast majority NPCs aren't gay
>this is somehow an issue in faggots mind's
Give me 1, just one, good reason why NPCs should not follow the real life fact that the vast majority of people aren't gay? and no "I want more fags in media" isn't a good reason.
pro tip: you can't

>>55107778
well the lead designer of D&D 5e has said that this edition has been the best selling, but he might not be the most objective source for this sort of info.

>>55107778
This. Unlike comic books where the focus is the story and characters, people generally play MTG for the gameplay rather than the fluff.

>>55107833
that has absolutely nothing to do with what he said.

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>>55107797
I know that you may be here just to have fun, but consider:
Since when have you seen a form of popular media claim that they endorse white people and want to make their art more white-friendly or apologise for offending white people ?

It's easy to just post in era on social media instead of thinking things through.

>>55107754

There was a point when I realized that a lot of these people who get so easily distressed aren't just faking it or being oversensitive. They're actually doing it to themselves, probably subconsciously, in a positive feedback loop of intensifying thought processes because they haven't learned how to adequately cope with discomforting things. I think it's actually a bit similar to how ye olde berserkers would work themselves into a frothing rage, except probably not as intentional.

I only say this because I used to have a similar problem with this kind of feedback loop and depressive self-defeatism and social anxiety. Being unable to step back and calm down comes from not realizing you're doing it to yourself.

>>55107860
If I remember correctly he didn't include box sets in this statistic.

>>55107877
You mean like everytime a gay character, a black character, a female character or anything remotely different from white guy gets any attention at all people start crying, saying its SJW doing their work, or that "everything is becoming gay now". I mean, seriously, check this thread and se how many demands that there are not new different characters then white people.

They are repulsed and distressed when the media their consume doesnt automatically cater to them and need sites like these so that they think people still cater to them.

>>55107981
>white people are upset about losing influence in a white society
You might be on to something here.

>>55106178
I don't get this.
I got a lot of gay friends, they don't give two shits about fags in their media, they just want good stories.
None of them are tumblrinos that parade with feathers up their ass and dildos in their hands, though. That might be why.

>>55107003
Ok serious question. Is the gender of literally every character in the world mentioned? Like every single person in the busy market square?
Oh you're just pisse none of the people being written about and not the actual world. Hell I'd wager that if every single character mentioned by name in any fr lore was gay they'd still not hit the 4% mark you've set.

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>>55107981
You didn't answer my question then. Or maybe you thought that the fact that some people on anonymous internet forum dare to say "I don't like this new trend" is somehow similar to the inane publicity articles modern PR puts out.

You also seem to understand that things used to "cater" to white people and that publishers don't do that that often nowdays. Why do you think that is so ? Where did these "new" people come from and why is it so important that they are served when they previously weren't ?

>>55107833
So who is this decision being made for then? You're saying gamers are niche, I'm saying gay's are below the scientific standard for qualifying something as statistically significant.
So gay gamers must be practically lottery odds, why bend over backwards (tiddle tiddle) for them?

>>55108233
i read this as (titty titty) and was vary confused for a sec...

>>55108273
I mean a butt is kind of like 2 titties on your legs.

>D&D is made for homosexuals
You can't make this shit up. Hasbro knows their audience I suppose.

>>55108166
Dude, don't be an illiterate fuck. Learn to read what that anon said and make decent arguments cause nothing you say makes sense. Seriously, are you high? Even the pictures you post make no sense.

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>>55108412
Not that anon, but are you high? or trolling? gonna go with trolling.

pick related

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I think people should spend less time talking about which type of characters (cultures/settings) should and should not exist, and more time just writing characters (cultures/settings) they think are cool.

I also think simple traits like sex, skin colour or sexual orientation do not make a character interesting, at least not by themselves. A black paladin is just a black dude, like an elf paladin is just an elf and if that's all there is to their character, then that's fairly shit. Now if they rise to the power of their god in the face of adversity against their kind, that'd make for a more interesting character. Especially if he's are a paladin of a merciful deity and their code is confronted with the duty of expending mercy towards his former tormentors. That'd make an interesting character to me.

>>55105329
I missed the 90's where pandering consisted of every group of friends having a black guy and an asian girl. Just trying to get every race in on the mix, and maybe get preachy about accepting people even if they look different than you.

Now it's all just sucking dick.

>>55107740
This is a really good point and it's being ignored because none of the queers in this thread has a reasonable response to it.

>>55107446

>economic dynamism is an inherently capitalist idea

Man, and I thought I heard people shit on Marx before.

>>55107054
only saxons are white dude

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>>55105329
>tfw I made this thread over 12 hours ago and triggered /tg/ to give me 200 replies!

>>55107740
Underrated post.

>>55107274
Yep, you see this everywhere. Off topic political discussion isn't /pol/ unless it offends them.