/CofD/ & /wodg/ Chronicles of Darkness and World of Darkness

>>55081967
What the Fuck!? Another Changeling OP?

How 'bout that Mage Supremacy?

>>55081967
What makes music WoD-related?

>>55082049
This is the only general that has to ask questions like this.

>>55081967
What is the WoD? What is music?

So what happened to Grandmother in Orpheus? What was she hiding in her Towers? Just the idea that non-existence is impossible?
>>55081967
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_eBGipALCc8
For other realms, like the Shadow or the Astral.

>>55081967
Question if I was going to get started with CofD
where would I begin. There seems like so much material and I know no where I should begin.

>>55082390
First you need to learn the American language.

>>55082390
You have a few options.

I usually recommend doing a mortal game first. It teaches you the basic rules, and lets you get acclimated to the kind of tone you can expect.

So that required the Chronicles of Darkness corebook, and that is all. Your ST may use an additional blue book, but that is up to them.

From there, you just decide what themes you like most, and try another game. Mage, Werewolf, Vampire, the big three are the best places to jump to from there. But there are a lot of game lines.

>>55081967
What is love? Baby don't hurt me, don't hurt me no more

Aside from Blut Alchemie and Spoiling, what 'alchemy' based disciplines are there? Considering introducing a hunter-turned-vampire through the Nehebaku Tears elixir and making that his bag to fuck with the players. Or just making him a Bak-Ra, but that's too easy.

>>55082435
Okay thank you! You've made it significantly less confusing lol.

>>55082390
>>55082435
This is good advice, but I'm going to give different advice. Start with Vampire: the Requiem 2nd edition. It has some WoD gameplay elements that mortals games lack, and from what I hear, it's the most popular CofD game, so you're the most likely to be able to find a group to play it with.

Which reminds me, I asked in a previous thread and didn't get an answer: what's the PBP scene like for CofD?

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>>55082653
The same as any other PBP scene - unrepentant garbage no matter where you look.

>>55082723
Oh well, at least I got that picture out of asking.

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>>55082787
To elaborate: yes, it is mostly VtR games, then poorly designed crossover clusterfucks, then Werewolf or Hunter, then everything else. And no matter where you go, some idiot will beg for Genius to be playable and tell everyone that it's really not that bad, they don't understand why everyone is skeptical.

Play by posters are scum in general, but WoD of any edition or variety has a small number of core PBP players who infest games and kill them.

>>55082821
Now I'm morbidly curious. What are the symptoms of this plague?

>>55082821
Cool picture

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>>55082831
Those sorts of players aren't subtle. You should expect sword wielding lolis, even (and especially) in splats where that makes no sense. Also, unexpected and unwanted swerves into ERP.

what are play by posters?

Is this chapter on 'the infection' in Hurt Locker the 'Contagion' that they are talking about for the crossover chronicle? Or was that in a different book?

>>55082934
Pretty sure the Contagion will be something new, if for no other reason than they can't sell it too good if it's just "HEY REMEMBER THE TOXINS SIDEBAR: THE BOOK"

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>>55082898
People who do play by post, which is Satan's preferred method of tabletop games.

>>55082934
>>55082977
I thought it was something from the horror recognition guide?

>>55083045
Do you think they'll be expanding it from that Philadelphia photographs thing?

>>55081967
So I am building a sneaky demon. He is very sneaky. I know he needs Parkour(●●●), Slight of Hand(●●), and Slight Frame(●●). That leaves 3 merit points, and I don't want primum.

There are three directly scaling merits I think are useful. Fast Reflexes, Fleet of Foot, and Anonymity. How should I invest my last 3 merit points?

>>55083118
Anonymity.

Though won't that just apply to that particular cover? Though I guess that doesn't matter in the case of a starting cover that will be your main.

>>55083118
Drop a few dots in bolt hole.

>>55083118
Have you considered Advance Form from Flowers of Hell?

So /tg/, how ridiculous can you make a Vampire build for Requiem 1e?

It can be anything as long as it's effective. So like, if he's a fighter he has to be good at killing shit, but he can do that with swords, or guns, or elaborate rube-goldberg style traps, I don't care.

I asked my GM what his limits were for this one-shot he's putting together, and he told me to 'do my worst'.

So my worst, as someone who's never played WoD before, is to ask /tg/ for advice.

What's good/stupid/powerful and what makes it that way?

>>55083210
Blood Sorcery: Sacraments and Blasphemies. Improvise every goddamned ritual, and power up to get your destruction/divination traits as high as you can.

>>55083118
Advanced Form or Terrible From. You can never have enough form powers. And 3 dots in Terrible From is going to a new Modification, Technology and a Propulsion.

>>55083061
>Philadelphia photographs thing

Please explain?

How strong was the Pogrom? Was it strong enough to wipe out all Tradition mages & supernaturals on the Earth when it was on its height?

>>55083251
Yes to the other mages, no to all the supernaturals. Just the weaker ones.

>>55083238
"Ten Photographs" from the Horror Recognition Guide.

Are there anyone aside from archmages and some vamp who can actually fuck with splats?

>>55083290
I get that TU had upper edge on Paradox issue, but were they THAT strong in terms of power? Wow.

>>55083346
What did he mean by this?

>>55083400
Like, make a werewolf stop being a werewolf, make a vampire stop being a vampire, turn a werewolf to a vampire, make a new major type of supernatural being, etc.

>>55083417
That's my best guess anyhow. I'm not that anon.

>>55083417
Playable PC levels, or are you asking if any beings/things could accomplish that?

>>55083425
With archmages in the picture, I'd guess anything, not just playables, but again, I'm not that anon.

Trouble is, somebody signs up for a vampire game, they may not be pleased to stop being a vampire.

>>55083445
>>55083445
>>55083417


>muh last airbender

Can we please not

>>55083445
I figure as long as it is A) punishment for a failure that COULD have just ended in death and B) there is a questline that can end in regaining their vampire nature, it should be possible. Definitely gauge it based on the player though. Some people react better than others, obviously.

>>55083397
I'm assuming you take the technocracy and the pogrom to the logical Mage conclusion where they win. In that situation, yeah, there might be some antediluvians, really old werewolves and the like remaining. But most are dead.

In general 'game play' era, the Technocracy curb stomped Changelings just by existing. The Traditions were suffering hugely from the paradox issue alone, not even counting the general 'fuck you' from Technocracy hunters. The Nephandi didn't care. Werewolves suffered from the strengthening of the Weaver the technocracy promoted. The easterners didn't care, because the Sixth Age is enroute and everyone is fucked, forever. Mummies were cheerfully being jammed into a new Spell of Fuck Everyone Else by Osiris and Ma'at and all the other gods that I forget the names of.

You get the idea. As a general rule, the Technocracy were the king bastards of oWoD unless you brought in Capital W Capital S Weird Shit like Arhats and Antediluvians and Demons, who basically looked at the consensus and smiled politely, then ignored it.

>>55083466

>Werewolves suffered from the strengthening of the Weaver the technocracy promoted

>technofags don't realize that by doing this they're making the strongest most bullshit werewolf splat even stronger

ANANASI ASCENDANT also they can still learn gifts from Weaver spirits and some of them are crazy enough to become cyber wolves

>>55083445
That said:

Idigam (Werewolf foe) have vast power to morph souls, beings, merge beings, make them 'heralds' etc etc. Because Idigam tend to produce powers based on what they need to do, there is little you should put past them. If a story called for it, they could probably strip a splat out of someone.

Pangeans/Spirit Gods - Same here. Once you are stronk enough that your influences are morphing stuff on a level like supernal magic, you can start twisting things at will.

The God-Machine - Obviously, the big GM itself is always down to do something weird for the sake of science. It probably wouldn't be clean, and it would probably be the only time it has happened, but an occult matrix based on some giant infrastructure based on some crazy ritual guarded by some hardcore angel would probably be capable of ripping someone's splat out of them, and maybe putting a new one on them. The GM creates cryptids after all. You may not be 'A Vampire', but hey you are still sucking blood and die in sunlight, close enough right?

True Fae - If you are in their realm in Arcadia, they are god, the devil, and that funny looking rock over there. That's how Changelings end up so weird, after all. But that said, who knows how much of what they do in their realm is permanent if your soul hasn't been fae-touched enough. But while you are in there, you are whatever they want you to be.

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I think these pictures are supposed to be the basis for the contagion chronicle story? So I'm snapping the pics to put here.

Does anyone have that collection of DaveB posts?

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Sounds like we have strange geometry going on, as well as strange alien-like beings.

So why are abyssal entities scary to a mage? Why is it not another mook to blow up?

>>55083611
>collection of DaveB posts

https://www.sendspace.com/file/sn5y9m

The Contagion sound like the Abyss.

>>55083671
1. The Abyss includes stuff outside of the world's usual workings, like places where an Arcanum is missing and doesn't work. For mages, who are used to being in control of some aspects of the world all the time, the prospect of losing a tool is unsettling.

2. The Abyss bends the rules. "Paradox strengthens the Abyss" is not just a platitude. The Abyss is helped, not hindered, by the things that cause trouble for mages.

3. The Abyss persists. It can never be beaten. It can never be fully contained. Abyssal entities and artifacts have ways of escaping from confinement or reappearing after death.

4. The Abyss corrupts. Mages are routinely lured into the use of Abyssal power. Some are only a bit tainted. Others become Scelesti. Mages who sell themselves to the Abyss have a long way to fall. Abyssal Legacies range from servants of a secret Exarch to self-mutilating freaks who replace their own body parts with Abyssal creatures. And yet the time could come when YOU want that power and do the same.

>>55083738
Ta.

So, I'm playing in a Vampire, Werewolf, Mage game, and I'm looking to be playing a Mage soon. Any advice for a newfag to WoD? I'm working with the M20, V20 and W20 books.

>>55083583
>>55083607
>>55083649
>eye on top of a tower
>bronze and brass stuff
>alien entity stuff
People are going to be upset if the Contagion Chronicle is what I think it is.

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>>55083766
>servants of a secret Exarch
You mean the one true Waifu, best girl and the lady that preserves the eternity of the fallen world for the benefit of all?

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Sorry, got distracted by a chat conversation.

I love how in the last one, there is nothing more 'vampire' than some neonate punk getting scared from his prey by a guy with a bat.

And nothing more vampire than the prey liking it, and being so mad that she attacks her savior.

>>55083775
I assume you're thinking of the Prince of however-many Leaves?

>>55083773
Dont. Play Chronicles 2e instead.

>>55083810
Yeah, this stuff sounds like him. Him being an entire alternate timeline inside the Abyss that matches up with some of this stuff. If there's anything about cannibalism, it would be a dead ringer. Eyes on top of spires, corrupted and wrong reflections of cities, something about bronze and brass or whatever. Sounds like the Prince of 100,000 Leaves, for sure.

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So what do we know about 2e Tremere? They use Hollowing instead of Gnosis, can drop into Torpor, can burn the soul attached to them to stay alive in the face of a righteous beating, have their House-legacies and stick their grubby rotted undead dicks in souls. What else?

>>55083839
The only bronze part in the Prince's timeline was the way American princes stuck dead heads on them to watch the living for signs of treason. The Prince thing uses some pretty common signs of extra-universal invasion. I can't imagine it's going to be just Mage 2.0 for everyone.

>>55083849
Thats it.

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Is this prince already details in nWoD stuff, or is it an oWoD abyssal entity?

>>55083875
Its obv going to be GM related, its the one thing that is in the core book and the whole God Machine thing was doubled down on in 2e. So yeh i think its going to be GM related.

It'll have fucked up and the world will have gone to shit or something.

>>55082892
>yfw the Contagion Chronicle is an allegory for PBP games.

>>55083889
Its mage stuff, mainly in the boston book. Nwod only.

>>55083882
Damn. I'm just going to assume they're a straight rip off of Dark Souls undead, then, because that sounds amazing.

>>55083898

Maybe one of the GM's alternate timelines in Seattle is escaping.

>>55083889
Boston Unveiled, 1e CofD Mage book.

>>55083906
Assume all you want because you will never see any more actual text on them till 2040.

>>55083898
The God Machine originally got scavenged from an early piece of WoD flavor text that became a fan favorite.

There's been a lot of discussion of the Leaves too. Maybe rather than being part of the God Machine, it's been chosen the same way as the God Machine was, something already published and well-received, but not yet central or fleshed out.

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I'm fine with it being a mage-based antagonist. It isn't like abyssal entities only respond to supernal magic.

Actually, more than anything, that seems to be a key to making a crossover antagonist that Mages can take seriously. We talked previously about the possibility of the contagion having some resistance to magic.

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>>55083950

>>55083950
Is that a Strix I see?

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>>55083979
>>55083982
Looks more like an evil gargoyle to me. But hey, maybe.

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>>55083982
Probably.

The Strix and their home honestly remind me of the Abyssal Entities from oWoD, and the updated Khaibit stuff seems to reflect that. Hell, they've even got the Shadowstep power. Wouldn't mind seeing more of that in CC.

Contagion looks Kingdom Death: CofD Edition. If only it also had all the thick, thick waifus.

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>>55083991

>>55084009
Another difference, it won't cost 500+ dollars, and will be released before the heat death of the universe.

>>55083782
I do like the theory that The Gate is actually benevolent. He/she/it is stuck with the impossible task of trying to control the uncontrollable thanks to the fuck-ups of the other ten.

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>>55084014

>>55083936
I like the prince too, but think all all the fucking hoohaaa if a mage antagonist is the one that fucking starts the crossover campaign.

Maybe its how mages will "get nerfed" if the abyss is stronger or something.

>>55084004

Strix are from the Lower Depths, not the Abyss.

I doubt anything from the Contagion will be from the Lower Depths, rather the Abyss and God Machine are the most likely candidates, particularly since the teaser referred to Infrastructure.

>>55084051
Maybe go back and re-read that post.

>>55084043
IDK, the prince is beyond the pay grade of anything short of an archmage in my opinion.

>>55084014

Interstitial terrain, and the changing city landscapes it references, sounds a whole lot like the spoilers from Tome of the Pentacle about New York.

>>55084051
oWoD has its own Abyss that I think was mainly for Vampire. That's the Abyss anon is talking about.

>>55084069
>IDK, the prince is beyond the pay grade of anything short of an archmage in my opinion.

And that's precisely why splats have to band together to fight this new menace...

Viola, crossover!

>I also imagine that CofD archmasters will be on vacation when it come to the Contagion, just like they were in the oWOD when the Technocracy fought Ravnos.

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>>55084039

>>55084073

What spoilers from Tome of the Pentacle or New York?

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>>55084093

>>55084091
Maybe the Contagion is somehow protected by the Pax Arcanum.

>>55084105
It's closer to the kind of thing that would break it.

>>55084113
I mean, we will see. If it exists and the Pax hasn't broken it, but the archmages have done nothing, that says a lot no?

Which 'city' or place do you guys use on your chronicles? You make something up? Or one of real cities?

BTW, do you guys usually play on city-level? Or bigger like country-level or international?

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>>55084104

>>55084127
City level. Largest I've done is county level, with players worry about their city and a few neighbors.

I started a hunter game once where they were an FBI team that could be deployed across the country, but the game crashed anyway so no idea how that would have gone.

I usually use real cities though, unless it is such a small town that I can just use the name of a real city and make up the rest. Never a place where players live or have lived though, because then they carry too much baggage into the game and can get annoying with their corrections.

>>55084127
City level's good, it gives the players a big but knowable playing field. Depending on the scope of the game, parts of the city may be off-limits, or the players may roam around the region, or they may frequently visit guest locations around the world, or they may be tightly based out of a territory.

There's also the road game, a format that keeps the players moving.

>>55084127
>Which 'city' or place do you guys use on your chronicles? You make something up? Or one of real cities?

Fictional city, mostly so I can satisfy my sim-city fantasies. My current setting is a run-down rust belt city filled with an improbable amount of organized crime. Think 'Miller's Crossing' but present day.


>BTW, do you guys usually play on city-level? Or bigger like country-level or international?

Depends on the game and story. A vampire game is usually going to stay within the city. A mage game may start in the the city but will inevitably branch out.

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>>55084097
>What spoilers from Tome of the Pentacle or New York?

>>55084167
I tried a road game once. That one also crashed and burned.

Man I've had a lot of games where players flaked. But hey, it eventually lead to finding my core group.

I don't get mysteries. Are they supposed to be roleplaying weirdness, with the rules meant to be an abstract way to uncover them? Or are they actual things? Like the Fifth Street Whirlwind, some bizarre tornado of Prime that does nothing (except on every third tuesday, where it makes the local bar somewhat breezier than normal)?

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>>55084135

>>55084196
Basically, a mystery is anything you don't currently understand.

20 people have been killed in a mysticly potent way in the last month, on days of Consilium meetings? Mystery.

One weird guy who draws art for this local magazine has a ludicrous large amount of gylphs in it of High Speech. However upon investigating, he's plain and simple Sleeper. Mystery.

Mystic vortex is sucking all the Essence out of all of the Ghosts in the city, with a crazy high opacity, visible to Prime, Death and strangely even Time sight? What's up with that.

Usually you get get by within the system, however with more experienced players you generally need to suspend the assumed rules slightly to get an interesting and surprising mystery.

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>>55084205

>>55084262
And that's it.

If this 'story' does end up becoming the start to The Contagion, looks like we are in for something strange.

So.....

Vampires. Ordo Dracul does this cool thing where they kinda twist the vampire 'rules', taking on and ranking up coils.

Is there limits to coils? Like how many you can take, how high they can go? Is there a book where that's all explained, preferably in detail? Because all I've seen thus far is 'Dragons are crazy cool'.

Is M:tAw anywhere easier than M:tAs in terms of magic(k) casting? Not talking about the game mechanical part, but 'justifying' how can you do it through belief, practice and tools thing.

>>55084289
Hit up the Ordo Dracul book. It's a little dated now, but still solid.

Rules wise, you can't have more coils than status in the ordo dracul outside of your prime coil. Mostly because nobody trusts anyone else. The coils got a bit shafted in 2e when shaped into their current form.

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>>55084014
>will be released before the heat death of the universe.

>>55084306
Yes. It's a lot more streamlined. You choose a Path, an Order, a Legacy, and other things to flavor your character's magical beliefs. No paradigms or anything like that. The only thing necessary for you to pick is a Path to determine your character's Ruling, Common, and Inferior Arcana. Everything beyond that is optional.

>>55084306

Belief has nothing to do with magic casting in Awakening.

The spellcasting system in Awakening 2e is also MUCH improved over Ascension and Awakening 1e, as is as good as possible with a free-form ttrpg system.

An spell is determined by the Arcana purview (e.g., Death, Space, Matter, etc.) and Practice (i.e., the type of effect).

Tools, among other magical aids, are called Yantras, and they simply provide bonuses in spellcasting, and usually used to offset dice penalties employed to improve spell effects.

>>55084405
>Everything beyond that is optional.
So you could make a Mage who spent his time doing Work Experience for each of the Orders?

>>55084306
Awakening abandons the Consensus. Magic is magic no matter how you rationalize it. There are still tools and other aids to spellcasting, which in 2e are called Yantras. Choice of dedicated tools and other Yantras is mostly personal, but it depends on your Path and Order too.

>>55084424
Sure. There's probably a nameless order somewhere who rent themselves out as labourers, in exchange for being able to dribble all over the Orders libraries.

>>55084424
You possibly could, but the Orders like joiners.

>>55084306
Awakening 2e has none of the paradigm mother may i shit. If you want to go full Emperor force lightning on somebody then nothing is stopping you, sure you might eat some paradox (take some damage or summon a abyss entity or whatever)

>>55084424
>So you could make a Mage who spent his time doing Work Experience for each of the Orders?

Switching Orders is a big deal, and engenders mistrust.

However, the Pentacle Orders are a true alliance, not just a convenience. They work together, and cabals commonly contain members of multiple Orders. If your really need something from another Order, and your request is reasonable, you'll more likely than not receive assistance (and owe a favor).

If you question is more along the lines of whether a pc can gain the unique Merits of all or most Orders, the answer is no.

>>55084394
It isn't a DaveB project, so it should be fine.

>>55084481
>If you question is more along the lines of whether a pc can gain the unique Merits of all or most Orders, the answer is no.
Curses!

>>55084424
If you really wanted to, sure. But according to fluff chances are you would get recruitment offers practically right away after Awakening, and if you reject membership into any of the orders you're an Apostate or a Nameless, one of the two. Which aren't trusted by the Orders, or really looked upon favorably. Basically an exchange like
>Take your pick of our super secret clubs, come on!
>Nah, I think I'll just play the field, you know?
won't make you any friends.

Not sure why, but somehow M:tAw magic and paradox fluff reminds me of 40k psychic and perils of the warp - your source of magic is the warp, psychic draws daemon, etc.

>>55084510
Sounds kind of similar but magic and paradox don't come from the same place.

>>55084482
>It isn't a DaveB project, so it should be fine.

Hah! We're still waiting on the Mage FAQ and promises adversary material, and Signs of Sorcery has been in "development" forever.

Dave is a great CofD writer and good Mage developer in terms of setting and rules, but alacrity is definitely not his strong suit.

>>55084493
If you want your Order Merits to be a broad mix, go Free Council. Their Merit can be taken repeatedly and do something different every time. It's called Techne and it makes a selected human practice a magical tool for you.

>>55084510
It has similarities.
But most 40k media (the wargame, the RPGs, etc) make psyker magic much more dangerous than Supernal magic.

Mostly because mages have a lot more control, while Psykers just yank at their power source with all their might and hope for something to fall out.

So a psyker's head might explode from one use. They might fail real bad and turn into a freaking daemon. For a mage to have the same problem they need to go out of their way to screw up, and a normal spell won't cause that much of a problem.

>>55084544
Even after development books will get stuck in layout purgatory because 1 guy is doing the job over all game lines?

>>55084559
Is that a question?

>>55084559

While OPP is notoriously slow and poorly managed, the Mage supplemental material and product delays are due to Dave. He's admitted that real life has been problematic this year and he was also obviously distracted by preparing the outline and writing bible for Deviant. Hopefully everything on the Mage front will begin to improve.

>>55084569
Does it have a ? at the end?

Is Ratkin subfaction "De La Poer's Disciples" a Lovecraft reference?

Do we know what's Regalia in Changeling 2.0 and how it works?

>>55084884
We barely know anything about Changeling 2e since the lead dev changed over.

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>>55084918
>changed over

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>>55084941

So the BBEG of Contagion is going to be the Prince of 100,000 Leaves.

I like it.

>>55085126
What does the prince do?

>>55085160
He's am Abyssal timeline. But there's little evidence that it is the Prince.

>>55083583
>>55083607
>>55083649
>>55083794
>>55083832
>>55083889
>>55083950
>>55083979
>>55083991
>>55084014
>>55084039
>>55084093
>>55084104
>>55084135
>>55084205
>>55084262
Interesting. Where is this from?

>>55085317
Hunter book called 'Horror Recognition Guide'.

The chapter called 'Ten Photographs'.

>>55085160
He's an entire timeline inside the Abyss where everything is fucked up and wrong.

>The Prince of 100,000 Leaves is a bizarre Abyssal entity that can only fully manifest by rewriting Fallen World existence to suit its own laws. Occultists have predicted the entity’s existence by postulating heretical visions of Time that might exist in the Abyss. Some of these forgotten time lines exist in Astral Space as fancies and collective speculation, but the Prince is different: it is an alternate history so abhorrent that it has been rejected by reality itself. The Prince gained a certain self-knowledge and a desire to displace the flow of real events with its presence. The entity knows the Fallen World, because it has been called before by weak-souled mages who invoked Paradoxes using Time magic. The Prince is made of the essence of Time, but only as a castoff, a shell of genuine history that has twisted in the outer dark. The Prince realizes its nature as a timeline that has never been, and resents this. It wants to be the truth. It wants the Fallen World.
Boston Unveiled, p.131.

Had to repost, thought I got all the lines right.

>>55085435
So in the book, when people run into The Prince, do they end up with problems using time magic? Or is it just a screwed up place?

>>55085458
The book doesn't say, or if it does I don't recall and it's further away from the main section on The Prince then I feel like looking right now. Mostly what it says is just about Paradoxes involving fragments summoning unique Abyssals, or "anti-spirits" from The Prince that have special numina, and for each fragment involved in their Paradox intrusion they persist for that much longer. Two fragments, twice as long. Three fragments, three times as long, and so on. The spirits then run off to take over normie artists and writers and such to get them to create more fragments and such in their work, or they warp a place to resemble its counterpart in The Prince.

>>55085458
The Prince is a god-level entity, you're most likely just to encounter Gulmoths and Acamoths it spawns.

>>55085735
The Prince is the entire sentient timeline, not an entity presiding over a timeline. I imagine encountering anything from the timeline counts as "running into The Prince".

>>55085751
No more than looking at something's footprints is seeing the thing itself.

>>55085764
That analogy would apply to the fragments pretty well. Not so sure about entire things from the timeline.

How do you guys feel about inter-player conflict in your stories?

In most RPGs I find it annoying, but in VtR (and to a lesser extent, Demon) it can feel like a natural progression of the story since everyone is a cunt and probably would plan each others downfall.

What do you guys think?

Does it fit in Mage? (Never played it myself)

>>55085330
Thanks.

>>55081967
Surprised no one has mentioned the official VtM album, Music from the Succubus Club
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rVcPUUQZ2hQ&index=1&list=PL7B8C09DFF2A4418C

>>55086215

Banned on grounds of people holding grudges and others using it as an excuse to antagonize and troll other players indirectly through the game itself. Generally speaking every time I've been party to it it's never actually been fun and ultimately that's what fucking matters.

>>55086243
Fair enough.
In my Vampire campaign it came up a few times, but it actually added to the fun as a few players kept trying to outwit each other.
I should say that that group was made of very old school friends, so it never seemed draw any actual ire from anyone involved.
I could see how it could lead to people getting mad in other situations though

>>55086272

If it's an established group we've known each other for years and can take a few jokes or few offbeat turns in a game then it's safer to pursue.

Would I allow it in a game made up primarily of strangers on the internet? FUCK no.

>>55086290
True dat.
It's part of the reason I tend to avoid playing with strangers.

>>55086320

I find werewolf is actually a pretty good game to run with complete strangers. There's a big emphasis on pack mentality and being able to trust each other, but also not put up with each other's shit or go along with suicidal Ahroun/Rahu plans. You can have conflict within the group but you're still sort of like a family unit and you need to learn how to give and take. You still want to know that you have each other's back.

>>55086347
Interesting.
I was actually writing off inter-player conflict in a werewolf game because it wouldn't fit with the theme.
You described its potential in an interesting way, more akin to family fallouts than any actual fighting

>>55086372

You want to avoid actual fighting or betrayals because if that does happen someone's going to rage and people are going to die. It just turns into a messy bloodbath at that point and no one wins.

Being without a pack is also like a death sentence so being the Lone Survivor is not a good thing. Vampires on the other hand only profit by seeing their peers die.

>>55086372
Anon, the book itself describes it like that.
You get mad at your bro, you brawl, you lick your wounds, then you get up and kick that dude's ass over there because he was talking shit.
You never had a brother?

>>55086408
>>55086372
All I'm seeing is Cheaper By the Dozen 2...but with Werewolves.

>>55086408

It's tribalism at its best. You might hate each other but the other guy who isn't you is much worse and you should go kill him instead.

>>55086419
The reason packs will fight with each other is because they know they can shrug it off with ease, and there is a fine line between good fun and trying to hurt someone.
A pack is family, at the end of it all. You don't always agree, sometimes you fight, but you all stick together without question.

>>55086215
>Does it fit in Mage?
Yes and no. Typically Cabals are pretty tight knit, but a player could have other goals or obligations that could cause them to cross another player. But it wouldn't be something that happens regularly. Now, Mages dicking over other Mages in the Consilium, that happens a lot.

>>55086526
I'm not so sure about tight knit. Apparently cabals mostly inform each other of what they're working on out of courtesy and keep the cabal around so there's someone to go looking for them if they disappear.

>>55086557
It can go both ways. A Cabal can be just you and your best bud, or a group of dozens of Mages. They can be loose, as you described them, or they can be so tight they build their magical identities to deliberately compliment each other and contribute to a whole, which is a bigger deal than it sounds.

The one truly consistent rule is the entire purpose of Cabals, the group is one you trust and depend on. Your Cabal is the first to notice when you're gone and the first to ride to your rescue. Not your Order, not your Mentor (unless he is also in the Cabal), and definitely not the Consilium. They often pursue Mysteries together, and build bonds because Mages tend to grow distant from their Sleeping family and friends while they're off being Awakened.

>>55086419
I think you just gave me a new campaign idea anon

Lucifer and Caine are both mentioned as having been tapping Lilith, and potentially fight in one Gehenna scenario. Who wins?

So apparently everyone loves Mage, but what /tg/s order of CofD goodness?

For me it's:

Hunter
Changeling
Promethean (In theory, never played)
Geist (good group)
Vampire
Mummy
Mage
Werewolf

-do not enjoy line-

Demon
Beast
Geist (bad group)

>>55087130
There are so many theological problems with that statement that I'm going to say optimus prime.

>>55087281

Enjoy would play again:
Werewolf
Changeling
Hunter
Mage
Demon

Not my cup of tea:
Mummy
Promethean
Vampire

Haven't played but would like to:
Geist

No interest in playing:
Beast

>>55087400
Some of the Lilim were partially mechanical, so it's possible.

>>55087281
Absolutely fun tier
Hunter
Changeling
Woof
Mage

>would not play again tier
Beast
Mummy

>haven't touched tier
Promethean
Demon
Geist
Vampire

>>55087470
>>55087281

Beast always seemed more interesting if you played a Hero.

>>55087281
Not in any particular order in the tiers:
>Enjoy
Mage
Geist
Werewolf
Vampire

>Interested in but haven't played
Hunter
Changeling
Mummy
Deviant (obviously)
Demon

>Don't care for
Beast
Promethean

>>55087281

First Mage, then Hunter, then Geist.

Everything else falls into the same pile of 'mild interest'. Like, I would never suggest it, but if someone invited me to Werewolf I'd be down.

With the twin exceptions of Mummy and Changeling. Mummy seems like a bad case of 40k's 'we forgot this was satire and now it's too late to stop' vibe. I can't take it seriously. It's fun for sarcastic one shots and nothing else.

And I just really fucking hate Changeling. No idea why. Like, I don't see anything wrong with it from any sort of objective standpoint, but I hate it so much I'm actually judging you for not hating it more.

Just my opinions though.

>>55087773
It's fine, I get off to you hatred.

Most people dislike Changling for the 'magical special snowflake' problem, but Beast took most of the heat away from that.

Kinda relevant; has anyone had success running Beast without all the wank in the core book? Like using the mechanics, but not being a thematic shitstorm? I might give it a try.

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>>55087619
Indeed. It's cooler to kill the beast than pussyfoot around as one.

>>55087773
>Mummy seems like a bad case of 40k's 'we forgot this was satire and now it's too late to stop' vibe.
What?

>>55087619
>if you played a Hero

MattMc has proclaimed that it is not allowed.

It would be a terrible case of badwrongfun...

>>55087400
>optimus prime.

I don't recall seeing that Prime rote in the Mage 2e corebook, it sound fun...

>>55088025
MattMc is also why it's impossible to have an NPC Insensate Alchemist as an actual Antagonist

Also he made Centimani a RFYD.

>>55087956

It just.... it seems like something someone who both didn't really understand what made WoD interesting and also wanted to mock it would make.

Only it's actually an official product, made and sold by the guys who created WoD.

Kinda like how 40k is sort of a bizarre parody of itself that's somehow managed to lose all self awareness over time.

I really can't explain it better than that.

>>55087848

I wish I knew what the hell triggers me about Changeling. Like, there's nothing wrong with it conceptually, it takes on a different aspect of the world with different themes than the other splats, and it's relatively well developed.

And for some reason it makes me scream belligerently, cross eyed and frothing at the mouth in rage. Despite being fully aware of it's positive points I can't stop my autistic goddamn screeching long enough to actually read up on it or play it.

It's just bizarrely out of character for me. Normally I'm the guy who's waaaaaay too reasonable about shit.

>>55088051

MattMc really doesn't like antagonists as player characters, and does everything he can to make it as hard as possible to do within the rules.

Dave is the exact opposite. Seers are up front in character creation. His philosophy is that all all mages are monsters, some are just a little worse than others, so why limit players in their own chronicle.

What I enjoyed most about people wanted to play Heroes as pc's is that it was obvious that everyone liked Heroes much better that beasts, and Matt was so confused and angry that he lashed out at fans (e.g., his infamous not all beasts posts on rpg.net).

>>55088094
I fucking love MtC so I'm kind of clearly not in the mindset to get what you're seeing.

>>55087956
Early and I mean early editions of 40k, like before I was born, was very tongue and cheek about the absurdity of the setting. The writers didn't take rogue trader era warhammer serious because it wasn't supposed to be a hard sci-fi setting.

Just entertaining fluff to justify the horrific casualty rates from using napoleonic era infantry tactics with modern and futuristic weaponry. As the game progressed it made the same mistake many 'space-opera' franchises make e.g. rogue onethey try to explain too much and take themselves too serious.

>>55088282
>Doesn't like antagonists as PCs
>Makes a game where the intended PCs are horrific people

Bravo

>>55088282
I agree that playing a hero is much more compelling than playing a beast. It treads too much on Hunter's toes. Perhaps, if beast was somehow combined into Hunter 2e. It could be an interesting twist on the traditional tabletop RPG. The PCs are trying to kill each other and the GM keeps the narrative moving.

>>55088282
>MattMc really doesn't like antagonists as player characters, and does everything he can to make it as hard as possible to do within the rules.
This also why the ST can't make NPCs out of Insensate Alchemists (You need to make an Antagonist for a gameline playable if you want people to use them as NPCs)

I genuinely wonder what OPP was thinking when they hired Matt.

>>55088448

MattMc is very good writer and not totally incompetent as a developer. I believe he's the only CofD writer with more credits than DaveB.

The problems with Beast and Promethean are due to the fact that Matt was poorly supervised and edited. Matt needs firm guidance and control, and that jon largely rests with OPP's "creative director" and owner, RichT. Sadly, as also demonstrated by his incompetence with Brucato and M20, Rich is clearly not up to the job or just doesn't care.

There are times when I wish the CofD license would go to another publisher if that publisher would mostly keep the same developers and writers (as was the case during the other transitions). We would probably get tighter books with less politics, and releases would hopefully be quicker and more regular.

>>55081967
oWoD question, can an Ability Specialisation be used to get more successes when using any kind of superpower? Being a Discipline, Gift, Sphere or Lore? Or it works only when using normal rolls?

>>55083397
The Sabbat is a small Guerilla army. The Camarilla is the world's greatest criminal conspiracy. Pentex is a corporate state within a state in service to a lovecraftian horror. The traditions are the Illuminati.

The Technocrats sling around Primium tipped nukes when shit gets real.

>>55084450
>Mother may I

What retarded ST did you have?

>>55088051
RFYD?

>>55084450
Yeah right there is so many ways to get around paradox it's not even funny. Paradox is a joke in 2e.

>>55089250
Lurk more

>>55089250
Rocks Fall, You Died.

>>55084450
>muh paradigm, game 2 complex
every time
is the game too difficult for you?
Where did the ST touch you?

>>55089326
>Rocks Fall, You Died.

I'm a regular poster, and I've never seen "RFYD" here or elsewhere.

Where is it from?

>>55089339
D&D reference for a DM who just wants to kill people: Rocks fall on the party and you died

So i Cain RFYD?

>>55089271
Its a joke until its not, sleepers everywhere, oh then every spell has a paradox dice, and every spell after that gets another one.

Folk saying 2e's paradox is a joke havent played it. At least in awakening you actually get to do magic and not get cuked by ST's AND paradox.

>>55089339
I just adapted it from "Rocks Fall, Everyone Dies."

It comes from the fact that the Refinement of Flux is one of those things where I'd guess the thing it says is "You no longer control this Created, make someone else." I could be wrong though.

I'd guess it's a similar story with the Zeka, if they are even a thing any more.

>>55088538
>MattMc is very good writer and not totally incompetent as a developer.
>The problems with Beast and Promethean are due to the fact that Matt was poorly supervised and edited. Matt needs firm guidance and control
Ah, the ol' George Lucas problem. When told "No Mr. Lucas, that's fucking retarded and won't work" you get Empire Strikes Back, when you give the man free reign you get Phantom Menace.

>>55089437
>le esb is the best and the prequels suck meme
As if there is a bigger sign of a fake Star Wars fan

>>55089457
>Implying I said 2 and 3 were bad.
>Implying 1 isn't objectively terrible
>Implying 4 wasn't also terrible
>Implying 5 wasn't the best

>>55089404
Which is more interesting, a Centimanus as a gribbly monster, or a Centimanus as a Promethean who may be able to resume the Pilgrimage? There are already Pandorans if you just want to argh blargh roll for initiative. I think it's a mistake to take the Centimani out of the playable range.

As for Zeka, there was no reason at all not to include them. The Zeka aren't inherently villainous.

>>55089607
>The Zeka aren't inherently villainous.
Counterpoint: Oleg Wormwoord and Tsar Bomba.

Also it was 50/50 if you took a 1 dot of radiation Damage per dot of Azoth once you became human (Five dots of radation is instantly lethal and you need 5+ dots of Azoth to become a real boy)...or if you try to become human and instead violently explode.

So you could become human and die of radiation induced total organ failure, or go off like a nuclear bomb.

And other Prometheans think they have it bad.

>>55089690
None of that makes them unplayable.

>>55089690

Or... you can find a "friendly" mage proficient in Forces and actually realize your transgender metaphor Pinocchio dreams.

Question: Is a prommie who becomes a real boy a sleeper or sleepwalker human?

Is their fresh off the assembly line, shiny new Principle-provided soul tainted by the Abyss like the rest of the sleeping masses?

>>55089820

You really don't hear much about Mage-Promethean crossover. My guess is that the new prommie human would be a regular sleeper.

I'm curious if the Orders would accept Alchemists as sleepwalker members?

I am certain, however, that most Alchemists would shit themselves if they ever tried any of their shenanigans on the Wise.

>>55087281
>GOAT tier
Demon

>Fun Tier
Promethean
Geist
Hunter
Mage

>Okay Tier
Werewolf
Vampire
Mummy

>Meh tier
Various mini splats
Changeling

>Why did we even tried playing this shit Tier
Beast

>>55089960
Why no love for Changeling?

>>55087281

Immortals / Purified
Mage
Promethean
Minor splats
Mortals
Werewolf
Beast
Vampire
Geist
Demon
Changeling
Mummy
Hunter

>>55089995
Dunno. Did not click with me. To be honest, we've only tried playing it when 1e was the thing. Also, they work okay in crossovers.

I just think that Demon does "I'm hunted by something infinitely more powerful than me" better. Partially because of how disconnected it is from you and partially because Demon is written like a spy game. So you have more agency but it feels so much worse when you fuck up.

>>55087281
> Favorite
Hunter

> Played and liked
Vampire
Changeling
Promethean

> Not terribly interested in
Mummy
Geist
Werewolf

> Don't like
Demon
Mage
Beast

Is it me or do Huntsmen also sound like interesting "splat" to play? Powered by nothing but unnatural obsession and Mr. MEESEEK type of loathing for existence with tiniest chance to get off-hook?

How well could some of the concepts of Slasher minisplat be used on characters from other splats to extend players control past the moral event horizon?

Anyone ever consider trying running games in "twenty minutes into future" setting to raise questions how future technology and cultural shifts may affect splats?

>>55090282
Slasher provides skills for people who want to murder people, that's about it. The rules on integrity and some of the merits could translate, but it really boils down to just murder.

How do you raise Integrity?

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>>55089960

>>55090324
I think they cover that in the Mirrors supplement.

They have some cool stuff in there, including a fantasy setting, and a space setting, and an aliens invading the earth setting. I can't remember if there is a near future one or not, but if there is that would be the place.

Are Demons the only playables that weren't originally human?

>>55090626
Promethans were never human, the =y want to be at endgame

>>55090647
Prometheans are always made from human corpses.

>>55089538
You need to be 18 to post here.

>>55090626
Prometheans evolved into humans
Mages are evolved humans
Demons are fucking beep boop beeps

Every other splat is a soul tainted abomination

>>55090699
But what about hunters?

Oh. Right. Nobody cares about hunters. Not even DaveB.

>>55090733
>nobody cares about Hunters

>>55090120
>>55089960
>>55087470
>>55087281

We are here. Awaiting the shitshow that will be 2nd Edition.

If you could delete any of the current ten splats.

Which ones?

>>55090780
Everything except mages

>>55090780
Hunter
Demon
Mummy
Vampire
Werewolf
Changeling
Geist
Promethean
Beast

>>55090785
>>55090798

wow. do all magefags think like a hivemind.

Okay, genuinely curious. I have never had a chance to play any WoD or CofD but Genius is what got me interested in this system at all.
I am notably sceptical of why "Mage is objectively better than Genius", but if anyone could make a reasonable argument that explains what's more likeable enjoyable about Mage I am willing to listen.
Also: Paprika would be a great example why Genius Changeling cross over would be awesome.

>>55090819
This is bait

>>55090780
Mages.

Not because I dislike them, I often play/ST them. But because it would make for few fun generals.

>>55090827
If asking Magefags not shit on something and instead explain why they like their splat as better is bait then these threads are garbage.

>>55090780
I'd be interested in keeping Changeling, Demon, Vampires, Hunters, and Prometheans and assimilate the rest into these?

>>55090819
My problem with Genius is that normies can see your shit, but not use it.

Like how the fuck does Genius society work if Mad Dave can make a steampunk mecha and march it down 5th Avenue

Reminder that fansplats don't matter

>>55090762
Yep. Hunter is alive and well, I'm pretty sure it's only one guy who says nobody cares about Hunter, since he uses the same line and it only pops up once per thread.

I hope 2e isn't a shitshow. Though part of me wonders how one could possibly fuck up a game that's just about people striking back against creatures of the night... you never know with OPP.

>>55090891
I see what you mean, but
-It would cost a fortune
-Never underestimate people's ability to occam's razor an explanation
-Anyone who would believe it to be legitimate mech would join the society of Geniuses as Geniuses or Beholden, and Geniuses don't like extra competition.

>>55090780
I would just add this sidebar to Beast:

VILLAIN PROTAGONISTS
Beasts are villains, that's why Heroes rise to fight them. In a traditional story, the protagonist is the hero, and reacts to a villain's plot. In Beast, you get to be the villain and do the plotting. The Hunger will drive you to plan hunts, and Heroes will try to stop you. Enjoy being the bad guy, it's what sets Beast apart from other Chronicles of Darkness games.

Anyone have links to Paradigma with subtitles?

>>55090982
It's literally only thing beside Changeling making me care about this game at all.

>>55090626
..bring back Demon: the Fallen.

>>55091063
You have ass taste then

>>55091026
>> Enjoy being the bad guy, it's what sets Beast apart from other Chronicles of Darkness games.
Wat? Literally a majority of splats have the player as the villain.

>>55091124
As sympathetic villains though.

>>55091026
That's actually a pretty elegant solution. Now if only we could balance their powers. Most Atavisms and Nightmares are OK, but then you have silly stuff like Thicker Than Water.

>>55091077
Demon Translation Guide. Demon: the Fallen is already back.

My group and I are about to start our first foray into Werewolf: The Apocalypse. Since it's our first and most likely only Werewolf chronicle, I kinda want to try to play the ANIMAL I HAVE BECOME motif straight and play an emogothpunk angry kid. What tribe and auspices would be best for that? I dont super want a combat bunny but I dont know if being a talky person or a spirit person would fit the concept.

>>55091025
It just doesn't mesh well with some of the Geniuses who want revenge on the world and such. Surely one of them can make a quantun nutreeno bomb and turn lower Pittsburgh into pasta during the Science Fair.

Boom. Masquerade broken .

Also: this guy knows what's up. >>55091026

Beast is so much better as a grey and grey game. I really want to employ what little writing skill I have and reframe the mechanics as that.

>>55091180
Reframing Beast is easy because Hungry Hungry Beasts is the game it was meant to be. Lessons and BadHeroes got tacked on midway over fan feedback butthurt. I don't think the book has to be rewritten, just the ST and players quickly put on the same page.

A game that's driven by proactive player scheming is awesome. Most games take a while to get there. With Beast, players should be scouting targets and planning hunts right away.

>>55091180
Man-made nature of Masquerade appeals to me personally and three arguments above would still apply. People would argue it was a gas leak, and those who would point out radiation readings would slowly start to lose their marbles because Geiger-counters would click to the tune of "Happy Birthday" due to superscience energy. Demon the Descent and God-Machine get way flashier.

>>55089820
>>55089894
Been awhile since I read Promethean, but I recall Prommies getting a choice when they turn human: forget being Prometheans let the Divine Fire smooth out the whole friends/family/bank account/birth certificate deal, or cling to the last embers of the Fire and keep your memories and a power you had, but you're on your own in the world. Seems a easy Sleeper/Sleepwalker distinction.

>>55091289
>>55091180
This seems to be mostly matter of taste but I am glad I had opportunity to have this discussion, even if neither of us got convinced.
Thank you for indulging me for a moment.

>>55088282
stopped playing around the time of Nwod 2.0 What's this "not all beast post"!?

WHy did no one tell me Demon was a fucking spy game with robots!?

I am so running a Demon game in Tokyo

>>55091719
Weeb trash

I bet you're Hill in disguise

>>55091719
>WHy did no one tell me Demon was a fucking spy game with robots!?

If you'd read the book we wouldn't need to tell you

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>>55091164
Yes, yes, a thousand times, yes.

>>55087281
>patrician
Demon, Hunter, Vampire
>equites
Changeling, Mortal, Mummy
>plebeian
Geist, Promethean, Beast
>barbaric
Mage, Werewolf

>>55091737
Nah mate, real Tokyo. Sararīman, convenience stores, overpopulation and depression.

>>55088282
>(e.g., his infamous not all beasts posts on rpg.net).

If as funny and sad as brucatto posting his opinion on.....anything?

>>55091806
Don't forget the sad, tired used car salesman trying desperately to reclaim their past as feared gangsters. Comedy!

>>55088448
>(You need to make an Antagonist for a gameline playable if you want people to use them as NPCs)

Not necessarily true. One could make rules for pc and npcs completely different and sometimes is a good idea that saves the dm time ala ffg star wars. Problem is chrod wants to have its cake and eat it.

>>55091034
Here you go, the more people that see it, the better spent my money was to have it subbed.
https://mega.nz/#!D8AAzABL!EYwlR-BUe-q7xBRbpqW1Zy_7j4-0DN2ewMRAI_-KDeI

1e Vampire had a merit called dollface, with the vampire always waking up clean and fresh, like they'd just been embraced. But Vampires already woke up that way in 1e, right? Was the only point to the Merit changing the way you looked as you dropped in humanity?

what's the best way to topple the existing prince of a city

Guys, you know how some people accuse the Seers of being boring because they are like "comic book super villains with no nuance"? What if I wrote a Seer who willingly creates a Shadow Name in the style of a comic book villain for the hell of it, complete with Evil Laugh and Badass Costume as Yantras?

>>55092156
Give us more details. What kind of vampire are you? What's the prince? What's the kindred politics like? What about other supernaturals?

>>55091124
It is really only beast , mummy, and vampire.

Changelings, mages, werewolves, demons, hunters, all good guys

>>55091976
Do you know what the legality of said thing is? Is there like, a DVD release ever planned tht you're aware of or is this just pulled from TV? I ask because the one site I would like to share it on is a no piracy site, but if this is never getting anything official and is dead it should be okay to share.

>>55092381
Changelings are magical PTSD survivors. Mages/werewolves can be 'good' or 'bad', both are playable from the core. Demons are amoral at best.

>>55092414
There was allegedly, briefly a print-on-demand dvd version of it, but I've never been able to track it down.

>>55091347
>Prommies getting a choice when they turn human: forget being Prometheans let the Divine Fire smooth out the whole friends/family/bank account/birth certificate deal, or cling to the last embers of the Fire and keep your memories and a power you had, but you're on your own in the world.

I did not know that. Thanks.

Of course, as soon as the former Promethean becomes human, he'll get hit by a bus. embraced by a vampire, fall through a portal into god knows where, etc. There can be no happy endings in the CofD.

>>55092568
Possessed by an inferno demon.

>>55092381
Mages are arguably the most evil of the splats. Or at least they can be.

>>55092568
It's why a lot of people see Prom as pointless. 'Yay, let's be squishy!'

It kinda works better in a non-WoD setting, where bat-spider-men won't devour your liver.

>>55092637

Mages are obsessive, narcissistic and arrogant bastards. However, except for the few Scelestus, Tremere and Seer Prelates, few are really "evil."

They're amoral douches, but rarely villains in the traditional sense.

>>55092722

At least the former Promethean gets to die as a Real Boy(tm) with a pure soul.

Hopefully that counts for something in an afterlife or reincarnation, or Fate truly is a fickle and cruel bitch.

What Mage Arcana are needed to deal with Promethean Qashmallim?

>>55092637
Can be means nothing.
At their core concept they are fighting against terrible god-kings that have an iron grip on heaven.

>>55092859
You can use prime. You won't win since quash are unkillable. But use prime.

>>55093011
>energy being
>can't be killed
battery get

>>55093050
Actually, Qashmallim vanish back into the Principle once their mission is complete or foiled, never to return.

>>55093096
Then so long as the mission is neither complete nor foiled...

>>55091719
It's not really robots. But yes, it works like charm as pretty much every kind of spy game. From Bond to some noir stuff.

>>55092156
Cast him in your Vampire Masquerade/Requiem game. As a prince.

>>55093131
Not being able to complete your mission is indeed foiling the mission.

>>55093217
Unless every qashmallim mission is completed instantly, there must be a state in which the mission is not yet completed, but also not yet foiled.

>>55092281
we're both Ventrue. there are concerns that she's losing her grip over the city as we've had multiple incursions by mages setting up outposts. we haven't really seen any other supernaturals other than a werewolf "cub" I hit with my car and promptly ran away from.

I started up a real estate company with a Ventrue neonate (she seems to be one of those new kind of vampires who doesn't like the Camarilla and would not mind seeing its "leadership" changed) in hopes of leveraging a corporate takeover of the prince's holdings.

I've ingratiated myself with a local gang whose leader I've ghouled in the hopes of having some fodder in case things get physical.

>>55093267
The Principle could just say "I don't think so, Mr. Wizard" and recall the Qashmal anyway.

Are the shiny new former Promethean souls from the Principle the same as the souls of regular humans?

As per the earlier question, are Principle given souls tainted by the Abyss?

>Do both Principle and regular souls both have that new soul smell?

>>55093334
Yeah. The principle doesnt stretch itself thin like the GM does. It is a bit more... Direct.

>>55093393
That is up to the ST. But since some Prometheans who achieve the New Dawn retain some minor supernatural powers, they would probably count as Sleepwalkers.

>>55093334
What if I infect the qashmallim so that recalling it to the Principle would be hazardous? Stick a Gulmoth in that bitch.

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>>55092381
>Mummy
>Bad guys

>>55093441
Probably nothing.

Could make a good plot hook though.

>>55093441
Do you really think that is going to hurt a possible Rank 9 or 10 entity? Be honest.

>>55093464
Mummies eventually realize they are not on the right side if they go for memory. But they are effectively goons for evil gods in the meantime.

>>55093472
Only one way to find out.

>>55093483
Mummies shouldn't be required to switch sides as they gain Memory. The decision to rebel is less meaningful if there are no informed loyalists.

What's the single most powerful entity in CofD?

>>55093534
Unconfirmed. Could be the Exarchs, could be the Principle, could be the God-Machine. They are all ST fiat stuff, anyway. It's up to your table to decide this, really.

>>55093532

The game did imply that there's informed loyalists, we just never ended up getting their book.

>>55093512
>this kills the mage

For those who don't know Promethean, prommies don't ever win against quash. They are allowed to succeed. They are effectively lessons made of pure energy. Of a prommie needs to be created, bam. If a prommie is being a dork and avoiding their pilgrimage, bam. If a prommie is being too uppity and pretending they are strong, cut them down a few notches.

If a quash 'loses', it is because the lesson is over, and the angel has decided the prommie learned their lesson.

They are tailor made for what they are doing, and don't tend to linger and stuff like the GM model (typical american made angels).

>>55093555
They also could be the same thing. Or at least in bed with one another.

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>>55093464
>Mummy
>Bad guys

They're eternal slaves to masters from the Lower Depths. Yes, they're bad guys. They only seem slightly less bad compared to their a antagonists which somehow manage to be even worse.

There simply are no "good guys" in the CofD, only shades of bad.

Backgrounds always seemed like a complete mess, is there a homebrew that balances/revamps them somewhat?
Asking for WoD, specifically vampire

>>55090780
>If you could delete any of the current ten splats.
>Which ones?

Mages

>>55093599
False
The forsaken are good guys. They serve a good cause, and the only 'bad' you will find them doing is if they are stopping humans from damaging the balance with the shadow.

And really that is only 'bad' because the humans don't know they are breaking the law. The werewolf law! yiff yiff baby.

>>55093534
>What's the single most powerful entity in CofD?
>>55093555
>Unconfirmed. Could be the Exarchs, could be the Principle, could be the God-Machine. They are all ST fiat stuff, anyway. It's up to your table to decide this, really.

Silly Anon, everyone knows that the most powerful beings in the CofD are ex-Amish blog readers with smartphones, i.e. The Plain.

Not even ancient Archmasters and Rank 9 Shadow Gods can stand up to their righteous photography-emphasized pacifism and virtue signalling.

>>55088282
>(e.g., his infamous not all beasts posts on rpg.net).

What the infamous post? Do you have a link?

Werewolves are fucking narcs.
Policing spiritual activity like its their due.

>Thyrsus bullying spirits
>"YOU ARE UNDER ARRE--"
>*dead doggos*

Fuck, I hate Forsaken. So. Much.

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>>55093667
>>55093639

The Forsaken are less spirit cops and more super-hunters in the second edition.

The Uratha are modeled on gangs. They are the Bloods Crypts and MS-13 of the CofD, not the cops. They protect their territory just like a drug dealer protects their street corner or a mafia don protects his "family."

Thyrsus mages are just so damned powerful and privileged that Shadow laws and customs don't really apply to them. They are like the Kennedy, Bushes and Clintons of the Shadow

>>55093639
>False
>The forsaken are good guys. They serve a good cause, and the only 'bad' you will find them doing is if they are stopping humans from damaging the balance with the shadow.
>And really that is only 'bad' because the humans don't know they are breaking the law. The werewolf law! yiff yiff baby.

That was 1st edition, now they are territorial narcissists who have a compulsion to hunt an itch they gotta scratch and fuck the consequences.

They brainwash their new member into cult obeying inhuman laws set by predators gods.

>>55093758
>>55093751
But are they doing a good?
They hunt because it was Father Wolf's compulsion to protect the border. It is in their nature, they do it as an 'instinct', but they are still for the greater good.

Wolves aren't going to hunt so Much they unbalance the shadow, for instance. They may have to hunt, but they direct those hunts to protect their territory, and protecting their territory means keeping out bad dudes and troublesome spirits.

All of this points to Forsaken as a force for good.

>>55093802
>But are they doing a good?
>They hunt because it was Father Wolf's compulsion to protect the border. It is in their nature, they do it as an 'instinct', but they are still for the greater good.
>Wolves aren't going to hunt so Much they unbalance the shadow, for instance.

Not necessarily, first of all Werewolves dont have to hunt spirits. They can hunt humans and reason for doing so can range from: He is a bad influence on the territory all the way to "he stole my sandwich....oh and also i need to re-balance myself or something"

>They may have to hunt, but they direct those hunts to protect their territory, and protecting their territory means keeping out bad dudes and troublesome spirits.

Thats a very simplistic look on things, just because something is good for the territory is not necessarily good for the people in said territory. If courts of spirits of murder and drug abuse have pacts with the local pack then a human trying to clean up the place is gonna become a target from a hunt.

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>>55093662
>What the infamous post? Do you have a link?

I'm not sure about the exact post referred to by the other Anon, but Matt's early defense of the Beast draft was *extremely* defensive. The thread is now almost legendary.

https://forum.rpg.net/showthread.php?758077-Beast-So-BtP-is-contentious-Is-there-(and-should-there-be)-a-fix

One of the posts that's been the subject of repeated criticism is his Heroes-Fireman comment.

>>55090682
No they aren't. There is both alternative origin of most lineages (likes Tamuz made of clay) and Unfleshed who are purely artificial by default.

>>55093639
They are good guys who sometimes simply snap and go on rampage killing everyone.

>>55093915
Yeah and mages don't have to investigate mysteries. That's a pointless assertion, because it is central to the lore that they do, it is a central theme. Same with werewolves.

Wow you guys suck at werewolf.

>>55093802

Self-interested, obsessive-compulsive, instinctual behavior is not necessarily "good."

What the Uratha perceive as good for their territory is not necessarily good for the human being in said territory.

Werewolves are not heroes, they're violent gangs running their territory for their own benefit, and unless you're an A-List supernatural like a Mage, you live or die at their whim.

>>55093983
>sometimes simply snap and go on rampage killing everyone

Is that all...

Yeah, real heroes...

>>55093999
>Yeah and mages don't have to investigate mysteries. That's a pointless assertion, because it is central to the lore that they do, it is a central theme. Same with werewolves.
>Wow you guys suck at werewolf.

They do have to investigate mysteries because of bullshit reason same with werewolf have to hunt for bullshit made up reasons.

Point is that you can be a Werewolf that is a good guy to humans/animals living in his territory but being a werewolf (forsaken) doesn't make you good guy.

>>55093667

Thyrsus to Werewolves,

"That's a nice territory you got there, it would be a shame if something happened to it..."

>"Never bother the wizard" is part of the little known fine print in the Oath of the Moon

>>55091077
I'm playing it right now and I master it with people.

>>55091769
>>55090120
>>55089960

So I take it that Werewolf is not the greatest? sign I think the only way I can convince my group to try out Chronicles is if we play Werewolf, its the theme they like the most. Any advice on how to play it the best way possible, any pitfalls to avoid?

>>55094157
That's a matter of taste. It isn't objectively bad.

>>55094157

Forsaken is a fine game, particularly since the mechanics and setting encourage collaborative play. However, the Forsaken are just not heroes like every other splat.

>>55094157
Werewolf is great. Despite what the retards in here think, it is the most heroic splat, plus you get your savagery and gore, and plenty of mystery and horror.

The pack mechanics added in 2e means it is like running a mercenary company in some other game. Or a gang.

>>55093999
>central to the lore that they do

Well now that you bring lore, there are various examples of forsaken who are good urathas or at least decent but shitty people.

From denver alone you got the red knives a pack masquerading as a paramilitary doomsday cult that hires mercenaries to test their defenses and then kills them.

Black moon extreme, a pack obsessed with hunting vampires that treats innocent bystanders as acceptable loses.

>>55094287
>a pack obsessed with hunting vampires that treats innocent bystanders as acceptable losses

>"I approve"
>Obrimos Mystagogue

>>55094284
>Werewolf is great
>it is the most heroic splat

Retards usually are the greatest heroes

>>55094335

>"what do you mean I can't claw through that wizard's kinetic barrier?"
>"oh well, let's just claw it some more."
>"REEEEEEE OVERPOWERED"

>>55094373
Kinetic Shielding is not a canon spell. It must be made through Creative Thaumaturgy, which is always subject to the approval or veto of the ST.

>>55094395
So that means magefags gloating about how their barrier bullshit is raw are in the wrong ?
I could have guessed

>>55094395
>ignore kinetic shield posts
>ignore kinetic shield posters

>>55094429
It's not explicitly in the rules all written up and ready to go, but it's a variation on a spell that is.

>>55094395
>Creative Thaumaturgy, which is always subject to the approval or veto of the ST.

So, the spell should not be allowed because woofs' idea of problem solving amounts to little more than claw-claw-bite-claw?

Now you know why Dave cares little about crossover...