/CofD/ & /wodg/ Chronicles of Darkness and World of Darkness

>>55066739
goddamnit faggot

Abandon thread

Fagness has forsaken us.

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>>55066739
Gay werewolves didn't die for another Mage thread.

>>55066739
>Do the Exarchs affect aliens? Like, are there Alien Seers?

My house fluff is that extraterrestrial exist but can't awaken or cause paradox. It's an open mystery to mages who study such things why this is.

It could be that magic has always been something inherent to humans, or the exarchs tyranny has cut off other species from the supernal, or aliens lack true souls, etc.

The subtle arcana and associated phenomenon behave strangely far from earth and the collective weight of humanity. The Shadow is a strange and inhospitable place beyond helios, paths in the astral make unexpected twists, avernian gates exist that open to nowhere, etc.

>>55067054
>muh humanity fuck yeah!
Your fluff is garbage and you should be ashamed

"Tier 2: This power functions as tier 1 above except it
may target supernatural beings, but not other mummies.
Targeted supernatural beings may resist by rolling Resolve
+ their relevant supernatural power Trait (i.e., Sekhem,
Blood Potency, etc.) contested by the Deceived’s roll of
Wits + Ren. If the Deceived fails this roll she cannot target
the same victim with this power for the remainder of the
story, although she may immediately spend 1 Ab to force
a re-roll of both die pools with the Deceived incurring a
-2 penalty. If the mummy is successful the supernatural
being will intuitively understand his jeopardy and will
have 48 hours until he is inexplicably destroyed. After he
meets his end, mortals and supernaturals alike will have a
-3 penalty on any rolls to recall specific details concerning
the victim. Mummies are immune to this effect on their
memory."
p.98
Book of the Deceived.

Okay, found it. This is the supposed anti-Archmage Utterance, but even taken at face value it doesn't seem to be a sure thing. At all. You need the Archmage's true name (easier said than done, even regular Mages will go to lengths to hide their real name), the power can be resisted (and Archmages have incredibly high Gnosis and can raise stats above five with magic), and even if it succeeds the Archmage has 48 hours to find and destroy the Deceived, which means the power won't take effect. And with Time and Space at 5 and as Ruling, he has a good shot at finding them. And for the purposes of crossover, going with Mage rules it could be decided that targeting the Archmage with his true name creates a sympathetic connection, which he could trace back.

I mean, I don't into Mummy mechanics so I'm open to being corrected, but just from what I see it's not as impressive as it was made out to be. And this is with things as written, not according to what Dave has said.

>>55067054
Last paragraph is worth keeping. Though I think it would be more interesting if there were alien Seers. Even better, if alien entities only has Seers. No friendly mages, every planet they go to is under full Seer dominion.

>>55067317
There is an utterance that allows you to use your own true name in order to target others than you don't know the true name of

>>55067666
What's that one called?

>>55067701
Not sure I wouldn't be caught dead playing mummy.

>>55066739
First for Changeling SUPREMACY

Anyone reading the new changeling thing, a Grim Dark Era?

I like the trifles, their like miny magical things hanging around the world.

One of them is the water of life, curing all sickness and congenital problems(withered limbs, and shit), adding 10 years to your life, heals all lethal and bashing damage as well as up to 4 aggravated damage, and the only real cost is that its really hard to find and if you can find it its expensive and probably guarded by big nasties.

This doesn't have a dot cost or anything, its just something you can find somewhere in the hedge.

I like things like this.

Where is the WoD discord?

>>55067752
Where is this? Was this in one of the Dark Era books?

>>55067808
Why would you want to hear a gaggle of sweat neckbeards screeching about crossover power wankery?

>>55067808
>Where is the WoD discord?

https://www.reddit.com/r/WhiteWolfRPG/comments/4rvrtu/chronicles_of_darkness_discord_server/

>>55067830

There's a lot less of the crossover wankery on the Discord than here.

>>55067808
Just breathe heavily and masturbate into a microphone. Copy that half a dozen times with filters. Et voila, WoDG discord!

The people on the CoD Discord are actually very nice. Dunno about WoD, though.

GUY guys can't we all just agree Promethean is just Frankenstein's monster. But the Monster slowly learns over time he's actually the bride he's been looking for the whole time?

>>55067978
>The people on the CoD Discord are
boring. yes, yes they are

>>55068018
So, they are the same people from this general then?

>>55067823
http://theonyxpath.com/now-available-a-grimm-dark-era-and-classics-in-print/

>>55068112
>http://theonyxpath.com/now-available-a-grimm-dark-era-and-classics-in-print/
Cool, yeah it is just one of the chapters from the full Dark Eras book. I haven't looked at it, personally.

Is it only changelings in that one? No second splat? Could be interesting.

>>55068090
No, apparently they're nice.

>>55068187
>Is it only changelings in that one? No second splat?

Correct I believe. Although the general idea has already been done repeatedly with vampires and Bram Stoker.

>>55068480
Yo, the brother don't SWEAR he nice, he KNOWS he's nice

>>55067073
:-(

>>55067472

The only issue with that is it begs the question of why the seers haven't already won? Sure they spend 99.999% of their time back stabbing each other but the universe is a massive place and there would have to be enough like minded seers to crush the pentacle.

>>55068710
The guardians seem to think neither of them are actually playing to win.

Really, the Seers have won. Magic is derided as foolish bullshit. The Pentacle are desperately scraping for any advantage, often living in squalor. Half of what the Guardians do is from the Seer playbook. The only difference is that the Pentacle - and the Nameless - are still *there*. The only way they'll ever annihilate them is if the abyss closes. They have everything else they want - wealth, power, ownership of the planet.

>>55068710
See, I'm not a big enough mage player to know, but is population really the problem for the seers?

They already serve the sorcerer-kings of the supernal, right? The only things resisting them are what, the oracles and the watchtowers?

How have the Seers not already lost?

Plus, it could just be that the backstabbing intensifies when it comes to alien mages. The Exarchs want the terrible fallen statue quo right? If that is the case, then they tell alien mages to step off, stay far away from Earth. It is only when Pentacle mages head out into space that they run into these alien Seers, because the alien Seers cannot come to the Earth at all without Exarch permission.

>>55068769
Sorry, I meant 'how have they not already won'.

>>55068796

What do you mean by "Won"? They have won, the fallen world is exactly how the Exarchs want it (well if it wasnt for those pesky watch towers anyway)

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>alien mages

>>55068821
Exactly how they want it includes the watchtowers existing, and pentacle mages trying to resist them, and enemy archmages rising in power?

I feel like that counts as resistance. They may be overwhelmingly winning, but it doesn't sound like they've won.

>>55068843
You don't outright kill your opponent. You keep them alive and weaken. Unable to do any real advantage. So you can blame all the problems in your administration on the opposition.

The seers have won outright, and the "Rebellion" is simply the line you lay out for the twenty crusade into the fallen world for supernal oil fields

>>55068843
The watch towers were put there by the oracles, for some reason the exarchs cant get rid of them so have perverted them by convincing newly awakened mages to become seers/slaves.

>>55068907
Which raises another question.
What do the Exarchs get out of controlling the fallen? Outside of making sure no one ever reaches them, that is (which they seem to be failing at).

>>55068935
Just how many archmasters do you think actually ascend so that the Exarchs have to share "power" with them?

>>55068943
That does the opposite of answering the main question.

Us mages, eh?

>>55068935
The exarchs get nothing out of controlling the fallen world, they leave that to the seers. Sure they send them messages every now and again but who is to say its really the exarchs and not just seer archmages still trying to gather more power or quintessance or whatever?

The exarchs dont want people coming up and having to share their pie with, so use the seers to make magic and ascending as hard as possible.

>>55069048
And the seers get trapped in the wealth and power magic gives them in the fallen world. Sure many become Archmages also but they continue to stay in power within the seer heirarchy and many probably dont want to ascend or even think they can.

>>55069048
And the Seer ones that do it get to be absorbed by their patron Exarch.

>>55068935
Luxury and the right to rule.
Whats the point in being King if no one recolonizes you as the King?

The ruler gets the right of power from the lower class handing over their power to the higher class. Thus they shape reality as such because either A they like the stability or B they have to have it like that

>>55069065
>or even think they can
Exarchs offer Ascension to their most loyal and proven followers.

>>55069103
Yeah anon, the Exarchs totally wouldn't lie

>>55067978

Where can I find the WoD discord?

>>55069118
>Yeah anon, the Exarchs totally wouldn't reshape the objective truth to suit their own whims

It was my understanding that the Exarchs are actually powerless in the Supernal, and that they rely on the Seers to get things done in the Fallen, that or their Ochemata.

>>55069103
Or they offer "Ascension" to the most dangerous real Ascension candidates.

>>55069140
They're not powerless, they control reality itself

But the fallen world is so tiny they need to use tools to influence it directly. Like humans affecting bacteria.

Seers are those tools

>>55069171
I don't think they actually control reality. They're just representations of certain bits of it.

They're stuck in the Supernal, and need humans to do their work for them.

>>55069209
What work exactly? What could they possibly want from the prisoners stuck in the fallen world?

>>55069209
The whole exarchs thing is to keep the plebs off our island. Thats what they use the seers for, they dont need anything from humans other than them to stay in their cage.

>>55069253
To do their dirty work? Prevent others from Ascending? Why else would they send down their Ochemata?

The Exarchs are rather limited in application. They can't just cast magic in the Fallen, not without their Ochemata.

>>55069264
Its like the Exarchs own a prison, they get the seers to run it and only care about if people escape. Day to day shit is left up to the seers. If a lot of people start escaping then they send in a representative to start throwing its weight around and correct the problem but assuming they actually need stuff from inside the prison is nuts.

>>55069209
You realize the Exarchs just fucking noped Camelot out of existence, right? Deleted it from the Fallen World's timeline. They also start really moving their asses once somebody actually starts making real progress towards Ascension, and they can spawn infinite Ochema into the Fallen World.

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What is the most OP thing you can do as a werewolf with optimizing?

Do they have anything on a city, continent or world-busting level?

>>55069361
Pretty sure a beast can bench press a building due to some shitty written rules

>>55069361
I never really look at high tier stuff for splats, since I don't find that level of play interesting. So I honestly don't know.

Did they ever even get a book for Elder style play?

>>55069419
No

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What's your favorite Bygone beast?

Have you ever used one in a roleplay session?

>>55069361
really good at clawing stuff except kinetic shields.

>>55069449
What?

>>55069413

Werewolves or Beast? But yeah I seem to remember the lifting rules in nwod and GMC being shoddy all the way through.

I did once design a Demon with flight who was large enough and fast enough to Kool Aid Man his way through entire buildings and sky scrapers and basically kill almost anything he collides with short of supernatural means to subdue the damage incoming.

I don't know much about Forsaken but I've heard some of their Gifts can let them turn an entire city into a firestorm or drop a mountain on people. Is that true?

>>55069504
short answer no
Long answer, you have to go get a spirit and bribe the fuck out of it

>>55069361
Werewolves aren't continent or world busting. No splat is. Not unless you bring in Archmages.

>>55069361
Well lets check the power of the top end gifts, since no one wants to take this question seriously.

>Crescent
Can detect and perceive through the senses of all spirits within X range. X being a variable of 100 yards based on wisdom rank.
>Full Moon
Each success adds 2 strength, stamina, 1 armor, or 1L to attacks. Can work in most forms.
>Gibbous
A target has pretty much all combat stats reduced by the user's renown rank. Defense, chase rolls, attack rolls. They are pretty much screwed for a whole day.
>Half Moon
Can change places with a packmate, regardless of any other situation. Just *schlooop* switch places.
>New Moon
Instant skip across the gauntlet, regardless of thickness or locus or whatever.

These are the moon gifts so far.

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>>55069493
BARNEYFAGS, THIS IS YOUR MINDSET

>>55069590
If you want city smashing shit you have to make some kind of big fuck off rite and channel leylines for power. The entire point of werewolf is that together they can take do big things

Like a furry voltron

>>55069617
You can also turn a bunch of humans into wolves (so they can help you). Which is fun all in itself. Turn all your ride or die humans into a big old pack for a night.

>>55069550

>Mages brag that they control the universe when they can't even destroy a continent or sizable Island without using their God Prestige class

Lel really puts it in perspective when you place them side-by-side with cape Comics or anime.

>>55069677
Mages still have the farthest reach of the splats, even without Archmages.

Hell, Space can flat out stack locations on top of one another.

>>55069732
And Man can Nuke mages into vaporized walls what's your point?

>>55069742
And a Mage with Forces 1 can shield himself from radiation and Forces 2 can neutralise a nuke entirely

>>55069748
>with Forces 1
Wow seeing all the radiation is sure useful. If you're just going to lie this conversation has no point

>>55069763
Compelling anon

>>55069776
How would that work? I would love to hear the logic.

>>55069791
Radiation expands outward, you compel it with Forces to expand around you, same way you can use Influence Fire to direct flames

Stop replying to yourself

>>55069791
Yeah uh... this logic will be interesting.

So, can Mages effectively replicate most every non-Mage ability from the other splats?

Psychic Domination = Dominate
Acceleration = Celerity
etc
etc
....

What are some examples of things they -cannot- mimic?

>>55069828
If you have the right arcana, they can do just about any other abilities.

But that requires having the right arcana.

>>55069803
You can direct flames by nudging them along a certain path, because they already spread along paths on their own. Radiation just expands. To make it avoid you entirely, to shape it around you when it would never naturally do so, is Ruling.

>>55069828
They cannot mimic a Beasts or Changeling ability to be a raging faggot.

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>>55069895
Is that a fucking challenge?

>>55069919
Please do not Persona-shame Mages.

>>55069919
More!

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Can I be an Alchemist who also works as a Hunter?

>>55069958
My trypophobia senses are tingling from that picture.

>>55069958
I'd say sure. To keep up the alchemy requires a fair amount of promethean hunting, so you would probably want help from a hunter cell to accomplish that.

Which... typically is what groups of alchemists do. Honestly they are just 'evil' hunter orgs.

>>55069958
What can alchemy do in Promethean?

Would it make sense to describe a Tammuz as looking like they went bobbing for apples in a cement mixer?

>>55070079
Using stolen Prommie juice, they can use a prepared bottled up version of a promethean power. That's the short version anyway.

Unfortunately they don't go into a lot of details in the core. It is one of the sour parts of the gook, to be honest. They didn't devote enough wordcount to them.

>>55069958
What are the Ascending Ones?

>>55070100
>Unfortunately they don't go into a lot of details in the core. It is one of the sour parts of the gook, to be honest. They didn't devote enough wordcount to them.
I blame the fact that Prommie 2E was written by the same guy who wrote Beast.

Not in the sense that he made 2E an Author Tract, but because he made it so you couldn't really work with the Alchemists as an ST.

Who would have through that making it so players couldn't use anything connected with the Gameline Antagonists would negatively affect the ability of the ST to use said Antagonists as NPC's , huh?

Whats a good shadow name for a Mage who specializes.in Light spells and forges her soul to be the guiding light for others?Path and Order?

>>55070148
Obrimos, maybe an Arrow?

Call him Louis

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Louis_XIV_of_France

>>55070148
Obrimos Silver Ladder. Lampion, after one of those little paper lanterns that symbolize a wish for a bright future or whatever.

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>>55069628
Kill yourself, Barneyfag

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>>55070849
hang yourself, degenerate

>>55068008
>Your waifu was inside all along

What ways do Demons have to detect other demons and other supernaturals ?
Do they naturally just recognize other demons or do they only see the covers, unless they learn otherwise ?

So maybe I'm an idiot, but nWoD Mage 1e, I don't get Mana.

I don't see how to calculate my maximum, I don't see where to regain it. All I know is I apparently start with Seven, but I don't know the significance of that.

>>55071091
The total mana you can hold and then spend per turn is decided by Gnosis, and you regain it from Hallows or Tass or other sources. Been a long time since I fucked with 1e so I don't recall specifics. I would suggest just going to 2e.

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>>55071091
Maximum is determined by your Gnosis

You regain it by geting it from Hallows or Mana. Or you can have your familiar convert it's essence into Mana at a 1-1 basis.

>>55071115
You can also take damage and get 3 mana, scourging your pattern. x times per day based on gnosis i cant remember.

You can also sacrifice shit for mana too.

>>55071110
>>55071115

Yeah, I feel dumb now. I saw that chart earlier and just mentally glossed over it.

Thanks guys.

Second question, even though it's not strictly relevant at character creation: I see that the attribute/skill/Arcana cap increases after Gnosis 5.

Does that mean I can buy say, rank six Dexterity as a basic stat? Or is that more for I can like wear magic boots that raise my dex, but I can't go above five until I'm enlightened enough?

Also, that chart implies I could get rank 10 Arcana, but the Arcana Mastery chart right below it implies you can only get rank six? Or at least that there's something really weird about that.

>>55071149
After Level 5 each splat becomes able to increase their base attributes and skills above 5, yes.

Arcana rank 6+ are exclusive to Archmasters. A Mage character can continue to increase additional Arcana to higher levels, but only an Archmaster can ever take the 6th or higher dots.

Archmasters are detailed in the Imperial Mysteries splatbook

>>55071163

So my Arcana cap(s) is loosely tied to a class change/upgrade, but all of the other bennies to leveling up apply regardless? i.e. I can have rank ten stats, oodles of mana, and faster casting time?

And I could still get my Arcana up to five-ish across the board regardless?

>>55071214
Yes.

>>55071214
Theoretically, sure.

>>55071227
>>55071214
>>55071163
>>55071149
>>55071115
>>55071110
>>55071091

Thanks for the help guys, just finished my character, sent it off to the ST, found out he decided to run Werewolf instead, Fuck my life.

But hey, at least I have a better understanding of Mage now.

>>55069361
Cataclysm the glory facet of the elemental gift and destroy entire towns
>>55069748
How can forces 2 stop a nuke entirely?

>>55071286
Control Radiation

Spell stops nuclear energy from expanding outward

>>55071302
How would that stop a nuke? By the time it hits you would vaporize before you can even think of casting a spell since not only will it detonate outside sensory range even if the radiation doesn't get to you the massive kinetic shockwave and lack of oxygen from the vacuum will.

>>55071256
Is it at least Forsaken 2e?

>>55071407
So the best Arcana to use to survive a Nuke would be Space and Life?

...The Sons of Lul'Aya are once again victorious!

What happens if you blast a Woof with Unmaking of Spirit? Would it die?

>>55071609
it would be extremely painful

>>55071609

Life Unneeded, friend. Just nope the fuck out of there.

Or teleport the nuke away. Either works.

>>55071727
How? Nuke isn't in touch or sensory range

>>55071707
Well I know that, I just wondered if it would do anything else to the Woof in question.

>>55071798
No if you are thinking that you cure it's woofism than no you are wrong

>>55071778
You also need Matter unless you're going to open a space portyal in it's path

>>55071806
Well depending how you look at it destroying the spirit bits that make it a woof could be seeing a curing it.

I mean it would probably be dead, but that's besides the point.

I just want Hunter 2e. Maybe there can be talk about a splat that isn't wizards that way.

Also, what do you hope is in the Hunter book? Me, I hope benedictions are still around. And I wouldn't mind a new version of conviction, I liked giving people a once per session power increase.

>>55071852
One of the big no nos of magic in CofD is that you can't cure splats unless you a high level archmaster and even than the splats ascended benefactor would fuck you up

>>55071895
Qashmallim can do it temporarily

>>55071895
But if you just shooting a Woof with a Spirit Unmaking spell, what's it gonna do?

I wasn't even asking if Spirit Unmaking could cure a Woof, just what would happen if you shot a Woof with it.

>>55071989
Oh it most likely kill it

>>55072014
MAGIC!

>>55070148
Thyrsus w/ Forces Adamantine Arrow and join the illuminated path legacy.

Call yourself 'Bertilak'

So uh..... how does gear/weapons work?

I know that having a high firearms and/or dex is how I get good at GUNS, but I can't read the stat block, and I have no idea how armor works.

I mean, part of a thing for a sword says Strength 3, and I guess that means I need 3 strength to use it? Or at least use it effectively.....

But what does armor 1/0 even mean?

Like, looking at the DEagle, for instance: It says Damage 4, Range 50/100/200, Capacity 7+1, Strength 3.

Range is obviously close/medium/long, and I'm guessing it's feet because no handgun crafted or weilded by mortal hands has an effective range of fifty meters.

7+1 capacity I'm guessing means that the magazines hold seven rounds, which means it can hold a total of eight if you're the kind of asshole who walks around with their gun chambered.

Strength 3 I'm guessing is the stat minimum, but I have no idea if that's a hard limit or just recommended (Like, face penalties or get hurt by recoil or something).

Is Damage BASE damage? Like it always does four damage MINIMUM when it hits? With more depending on things like additional successes and/or gear upgrades/perks or something? Or is it just Damage as in 'you hit, you do four damage'.

I mean, The rulebook seems to make sense, but my character sheet I was given literally just says 'dice mod' next to the weapon, which I don't know what that's even asking for, and I don't see where the hell I'm supposed to write this stat block. Same with armor.

>>55072157
>Call yourself 'Bertilak'
I do not understand this reference.

I'd just make a Ladder Mastigos with Forces who goes around punching out the inner demons of other people and occasionally fighting his recurring opponent in the form of the Astral reflection of Mr Blobby

>>55072280
>I mean, part of a thing for a sword says Strength 3, and I guess that means I need 3 strength to use it? Or at least use it effectively.....
For every point below the minimum Strength value on a weapon, you suffer -1 penalty to use it basically.

>>55072280
>Is Damage BASE damage?
Correct. So you add your sux to it.

>>55072280
Strength 3 is needed to use it effectively,otherwise it's a -1 penalty. 4 is the base damage, any other successes is extra damage.

>>55072307
Sir Gwain and the green knight.

>>55072379
Oh!
...I think I get it!

Anyone seen DaveB commenting on souls and the modified Tremere template aside from the bits about Hollowing?

>>55071088
For Demons, their sense for Aether allows them to find other Demons I believe. You turn that on, and stuff created by the God-Machine, even your pals, light up in your senses.

For finding other supernaturals, you can get the Aura Sight power in your demon form and turn that on.

>>55070201
>Obrimos Silver Ladder. Lampion
Agree with path and order, but name is just ridiculous.

>>55070148
What about Lucifer or Phosphorus (light-bringer in latin and greek) or Eosphoros (dawn-bringer in Greek)?

>>55071115
>Or you can have your familiar convert it's essence into Mana at a 1-1 basis.
Is this still in 2e? Seems unlikely considering the spells like Essence Fountain.

>>55071286
>Cataclysm the glory facet of the elemental gift and destroy entire towns
This. It's really crazy strong. Combined with Tongue of Flame it easily kills entire vampire population of a town along with everyone else.

>>55073046
>This. It's really crazy strong. Combined with Tongue of Flame it easily kills entire vampire population of a town along with everyone else.

That's gonna create some xbox-huge death spirits to contend with

>>55073061
Yeah but a 'mundane' Death spirit, without something wonky going on, that isn't the biggest obstacle for a pack. The ST can make it interesting, and I would hope they would, but it (hopefully) isn't the end of the world.

>>55072280
Armor is rated as Bashing/Lethal. Every point reduces damage of the relevant type, so 1/0 armor reduces incoming bashing by 1, but incoming lethal not at all. Where Defense modifies the enemy's dice pool, Armor modifies their dice result.

>>55073046
Yes you can use spirit magic to generate huge amounts of mana RAW. Personally I house rule that while you can funnel or create essence as much as you want you can only absorb mana from your familiar 1 per day.

So it's still strong. It's slightly less game breaking.

>>55072280
>Like, looking at the DEagle, for instance: It says Damage 4, Range 50/100/200, Capacity 7+1, Strength 3.
Is this 1e? That damage seems way too high for 2e.

Hello, new to the game.
If i make a Salubri do i have to put 5 dots into generation, while the v20 rulebook says i do due to representing the diablerie of their sire but the lore of bloodlines book says not all salubri diablerie their sire.
so do i have to put 5 dots or not

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>>55066943

>>55073933
Did you ask your ST?

>>55074145
yes, he told me i couldn't play characters with max generation but didnt say no to playing a salurbi, how many dots should i put in generation to play a non-diablerie salubri.

>>55073046
>but name is just ridiculous.
It also just means lantern, and lanterns are guiding lights, aren't they? Names from gods or god mythology are totally overdone, by the way.

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>>55074375
Roll with gen 4 and claim he was sired by a salubri after the diablerie.

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>>55074399
Lantern would be better. First thing anyone remembers hearing lampion is pic related.

>>55074538
Literally never heard or read the word lampion before yesterday.

>>55074496
wouldnt my character then have to diablarie him due to being one of the seven or do every single salubri diablarie even the non seven?

Any good ideas for an Obrimos legacy with Death as a Ruling Arcana?

>>55075473
Death as transition instead of end state. Combine with prime and focus on transforming ghosts, ectoplasm, souls, into other things. Probably left handed.

>>55072280
gear adds a dice bonus to your rolls.

A DAMAGE rating is additional successes on a roll.

For example. A screwdriver would add +its bonus(lets say 1 because I;m lazy) to your craft roll. So fixing your car would be your Dex + Craft + 1.

A screwdriver used to stab a guy while you were fixing your car would deal Lethal damage, and a bonus(1 again, because lazy) to your attack. So when you jam your screwdriver into his fist it would deal your successes, +1 in lethal damage. lets say 2 success for a total of 3 damage.

Armor comes in two forms. General armor(before the slash/) and bullet resistant(/after the slash)

General armor protects against almost everything. Lower the success your attacker got by your general armor. So the above screwdriver attack against a leather 1/0 glove would deal 2 lethal damage.

Bullet resistant armor lowers bullet damage down to bashing. Apply this first.

So if you were shot in the chest for 7 lethal, with 2/3 armor instead this would happen;

Turn 3 lethal damage to bashing because it was a bullet. get rid of the worst 2 damage(lethal) because of general armor. So end total would be a 2 lethal 3 bashing hit, from a mortal wound to a minor one.

>>55075473
Death is the driving force of reality. If Fate is the potential paths something can take and Time and Space describe the path itself than Death is the medium, the aether, that carries and propels all actions.

>>55075606
>Death as transition instead of end state
Literally what Moros believe already.

>>55075875
I really like this analogy.

>>55075904
And yet it isn't a Moros legacy.

>>55075904
This reminds me...are there any Spirit Ruling Moros Legacies?

>>55074496
>>55074375
>>55073933

Diablerie decrease your generation but, if you sire someone it will still be one gen higher than your original one.

Are there any 1e printed Obrimos legacies with Death as Ruling? Maybe something with a focus on protecting souls?

>>55075144
There's more than just seven Salubri - a minimum of 8, counting the Inconnu one. Probably more.

There are also piles of bloodlines.

>>55076101
All signs point to no.
http://whitewolf.wikia.com/wiki/Legacy_(MTAw)

There's a Tremere House called the Wedmak who apparently eat souls to defend others, so maybe that? No listed attainments, though. Check out the Lefthand Path.

So what happened to Grandmother in Orpheus? What was she hiding in her Towers? Just the idea that non-existence is impossible?

>>55075972
Wut? no When you sire somebody after increasing your gen your new childe is 1 higher than your new generation. If you start at 12 gen, diablerise your way all the way to 5th gen, your childler arnt going to be 13 gen..

>>55077214
Man, vampires have a terrible idea how generations work.

>>55077310
Probably because vampires are terrible in general

>>55077324
What a fucking blight upon humanity. With zero purpose. At least Beasts can claim they are teaching lessons though to be honest that's bullshit as well. Mages should lead the other splats in wiping out all vampires and all beasts for the betterment of the world. And maybe make a World of Darkness a little brighter.

>>55077414
Good luck with that.
That's part of the point of Vampires. They are the bad guys that know they are bad guys. They are very good at it, like human sized cockroaches.

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Whens trinity?

>>55077450
In another thread.

>>55077440
What about those emo vampires that hate their existence? Do they exist in WoD?

>>55074375
>yes, he told me i couldn't play characters with max generation but didnt say no to playing a salurbi, how many dots should i put in generation to play a non-diablerie salubri.

As many dots as you want, really (and as many are allowed by your ST, obviously).

As mentioned in the Lore of the Bloodlines book, most Salubri aren't part of the "WE MUST LET OUR CHILDER DIABLERIZE US!"-group, and most Salubri would just sire new vampires the usual way and not care much about generation, though Salubri *are* known to be picky about their Childer, so make sure your character would be one who'd be considered "worthy" of being given unlife. Whether your character's Sire was right or wrong about their new childe is up to you.

In other words, put in as many (or as few) points as you want, so long as your ST approves.

>>55077414
>>55077440

How about a Obrimos legacy with Death Ruling whose purpose is to hunt vampires?

Would that be overkill?

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>>55077472
>What about those emo vampires that hate their existence? Do they exist in WoD?

The ones that truly loathe their new existence usually just kill themselves, whether accidentally or on purpose.

I mean, they just have to open the door during the day to die. S'not like it's an epic quest with no chance of resolution.

But, there are a few who both hate their new unlives are are too cowardly to take their own lives. Those usually end up turning into savage beasts sooner or later, though as they lose touch with their humanity and refuse to quell their own beast in any way.

A few Toreador might like waxing poetical about the "cursed unlife, oh how tortured my soul is", but it's usually an act, or something they get over VERY quickly.

The World of Darkness in general has a very low tolerance policy for pussies, regardless of splats.

>>55077214
Did you check the rules before saying that?
No?
Then don't say untrue things.

>>55077450
After changeling kickstarter which is after cavilers of mars kickstarter which is next. Or at least thats what that one guy from OP said on the formus

Would a Moros willingly join a coven of vampires if he knew them well enough?

>>55077614
I mean, why not?

>>55077614

Join to study as part of a Mystery, yes; join as a friend or ally, no, he would be the laughing stock of his concilium or ministry.

>>55077561
>Did you check the rules before saying that?
>No?
>Then don't say untrue things.

jfc, read the books yourself, mate.

All childer are born ONE GENERATION HIGHER than their Sire.

Doesn't matter if their sire has a naturally strong generation, or achieved it through diablerie.

If a 7th Gen has an 8th Gen childe, and the 7th Gen Sire later diablerizes his way to 5th Gen, any new childer of his will be 6th Gen, not 8th Gen.

>>55077684
>implying mages even want to hang out with other mages

>>55077561
Prove it then faggot,

>The diablerist literally steals the power and
potency of the victim’s own blood, and thus permanently
>lowers her own Generation by one, bringing her closer
>to the mythical power of Caine. The vampire receives all
>benefits of the lowered.

gains the benefits of the lower gen, meaning when creating a childe its 1 gen higher,

been playing since 1e and unless something seriously changed then its been this way since day 1.

>>55077706

Mages like to hang out with mages (except those insufferable muggle-lovers of the Free Council).

With who else are you going to discuss your recent magical discoveries and the importance of supernal superiority?

Further, among the supernatural population, vampires are the worst (or at least second to beasts). They have no redeeming qualities at all, and are a threat to everything around them, including potential Mysteries.

>>55077796
Beasts
Vampires
Prometheans (i mean they fuck up places just being there)

>>55077928
However most prometheans have a great goal what with trying to become real human beans

>>55077984
> trying to become real humans

I don't care if you're Pinocchio himself, if you screw--up a Mystery, you're going to need to be incinerated.

However, that Divine Fire definitely deserves more investigation...

>Mystagogue sharpening up his vivisection tools

>>55077614
Would you willing join a group of tards, who at any moment could go ape shit and try to eat you? Dont do anything during the fucking day (round these parts thats like 15+ hours in summer)

I dont care how well you know them, they are always 1 or 2 meals away from frenzying and opening you up.

>>55077614
Join? Nah. Pal around with, so to speak? Sure. Death can reliably defend him from their abilities, and investigating them, their origins, their functions, how they persist after death, would make an intriguing Mystery for him.

>>55077550
Sure, it's just a little niche. It's probably not going to be very high yield in the long run in terms of arcane or regular beats. So you're kind of limiting your potential.

>>55078291
Eh, it's a good opportunity to give them reasons to fear the Wise.

>>55078505
Just have your Aspirations be centered around making headway into eradicating the vampire population. I forget, do Obsessions have to be strictly about discovering magic?

>>55078532
That's a beautiful oxymoron.

>>55077450
I'd guess like winter or spring 2018

>>55075860

With this in mind, two questions:

The DEagle, using my previous example, does four damage. This means that it's modifier would be +4? Could there be separate, unequal bonuses like a higher chance to hit vs increased damage?

Also, the example you used had a base damage of one, and increased by one damage per net success. But the way you phrased it makes me want to clarify to be absolutely sure:

If I get one net success, the DEagle does five damage, and not eight. Right?

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>>55079345
That is refering to second edition rules, for which desert eagles are only a +2 damage.

In the first edition rules, your weapons rating merely adds to dice rolls, not automatic damage.

>>55079424

So a DEagle is rating 4 because it has damage 4? Or is 4 just the base damage upon a successful hit that DOESN'T have that +4 bonus, and the 'bonus' comes from somewhere else (if at all)?

And so basically, if I wanted to shoot somebody, my dicepool would be.... Firearms + Dexterity + Weapon rating + any other bonuses (like from merits, taking extra time take an aim action, etc). Right?

Sorry if these questions seem overly noobish. Compared to other systems I've played, it just seems like it's really hard to find some of the actual rules in WoD. Like I love the flavor and all, but when I needed to go rulebook diving in D&D or GURPS or Shadowrun, I never had any trouble finding anything. I'm pretty sure that other that things like individual merits and template outlines I haven't found anything at all on my own. Everything either has to be explained or have a page number served up because I'm an idiot or something.

All this mage this that dothat bores me to death.
Tell about interesting Keepers you have designed for your characters or ones thrown at you by the Storyteller?

>>55079641
Changeling shit?

Please, do fuck off.

>>55079641
>le gay otherkin rape victims
No thanks I'll stick with Mage and Demon

>>55079655
What should these threads be named "Magewankery: Urbanfantasy suck my magic"? Get bent.

>>55079675
Demon is Changeling. Just tries to aggressively pretend that it hasn't read fairytales.

You know, the one or two guys in this thread who keep asking really basic bitch sorta questions makes me wonder.

I've personally always been blessed with finding an experienced and helpful group whenever I wanted to try something new (in fact, most of them just heard I was good at RP and wanted to know if I was willing to join a Star Wars game one dude short or something).

How many game systems have a no frills, easy to understand version of the rules, third party or otherwise? Is there one for WoD, any edition?

I mean, Pathfinder has the SRD, which is literally just the rules stripped of art and flavor text. Pretty sure WoD doesn't have one of those, but I feel like quick start rules should exist somewhere.

>>55079655
>>55079675
This is why we need to split generals.
This is a prime example of magefags killing off the general on purpose by driving out everybody else.
Literally a cancer.

Oh, before you call me a changelingfag or any other shit, I would just say that I like all content of almost all gamelines, not only mage or changeling. I'm a wodfag, and I came to this general to discuss WoD, not Mage, Mage, Mage and Mage.

>>55079765
If these threads are mage or nothing I am out. Game rules seem headache inducing and these douches have sold me on game being masturbatory power fantasy of "enlightened".

>>55079765
>I would just say that I like all content of almost all gamelines
>I'm a wodfag, and I came to this general to discuss WoD

That's not how this works. You either pick a side or fuck off to Switzerland.

>>55079797
This is also why I hate magefags, because they seem to diminish the game to what you say, when it's actually way more.
>>55079799
I even play both oWoD and nWoD mind you.
Am I some kind of monster?

>>55079837
>I even play both oWoD and nWoD mind you

You're fucking twisted.

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>>55079765
Jesus Christ, cry fucking harder you pussy. Nobody is forcing anybody out of anything, you and people like you are just incapable of ignoring people who are blatantly trying to get you rustled and your discussions derailed. This isn't a Mage problem, it comes with the fucking website. By all means, you're welcome to leave. It's you're choice. Don't blame others if you make it. Free tip, maybe don't say things like "this mage crap is boring" if you don't want people to hit you with Mage posts.

>>55079837
>he's namefagging now
>yet is calling other people cancer

>>55079924
It's boring if it's only option.

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>>55079641
I had a keeper who was the TF2 announcer.

>>55079636
If you're using 1e combat rules, then yes, your dicepool is Dex + Firearms + Weapon Rating + anything else.

>>55079938
The other option is ignoring mage posts that randomly interject and posting about non mage topics.

>>55079837
Naw, only as much as me, who is apparently scum because I allowed to a player to have a transitioning pc and have "super negroes" in my game.

>>55079924
I'm not namefagging, it was just there to avoid confusion you idiot.
Also, it's not a matter of ignoring, if people just keep on saying to fuck off when you try to start something that isn't mage for the 253th time, you just get bored and move on instead of losing time ignoring. Also, even if you ignore, other people won't, and they will just fuck off. This isn't some kind of trial you have to pass to be the cool kid, this is just a basic rule to don't make a thread complete shit.

>>55079924

As a Magefag, Magefags really need to shut the fuck up sometimes. If a dude asks a generic question, or about another splat, the conversation doesn't need to be angrily dismissed or somehow twisted back into mage fucking constantly.

Also ignoring trolls really only works if they're not the type of autistic that assumes that being ignored means you're too mad to respond to what they're saying, and that they're winning because you're a coward. I.e. Literally every troll that has ever shatgpost on 4chan ever.

>>55079968
What is a super negro?

>>55080011
>I'm not namefagging, it was just there to avoid confusion you idiot.
Whatever you say, "WoDfag".

>wah wah nobody is interested in my topics enough to engage me

>>55080056
In a game, I featured the African Hero Child legend as told by the Mandigo people.
This apparently was me jerking off about how great black people were because I'm black myself.

>>55080072
Was he literally a Kirikù rip off?

>>55080039
>If a dude asks a generic question, or about another splat, the conversation doesn't need to be angrily dismissed or somehow twisted back into mage fucking constantly.
And it probably wouldn't have been if he didn't say anything about Mage in his post. The last post about Mage was like two hours ago, and it wasn't even about Mage Supremacy. He instigated it, totally unnecessarily.

And ignoring trolls is always a better option than feeding them.

>>55079968
>>55080072
Oh that's cool. I want to create fan Legacy for all Non-Binary mage characters, based on Sleepers magcial practices. Around the globe, native cultures often have non-binary persona as rolę for magical practices or connection with Gods. See this article - http://www.teenvogue.com/story/gende...ound-the-world

Now, we will go into Legacy idea. I only want to mark I'm cis małe bisexual bear, so if I make wrong assumptions, point me where. We have official Dakasha Ldgacy, but they connection with Nazis is probkematic to some traditions.

My idea Legacy is called Two Spirits - name of Legacy is from Native American cultures, but it surely would work around the World. They would be Life/Mind Thyrsus mages, literally becoming other sex person. They would be mostly Nameless, but rise of Free Council and LGBT+ movement remade them in to centralized Libertine Legacy. So what do you think on this?

>>55080113
>anon is tired of mage shit for 40 post straight and says if we can talk about something else
>It's anon fault!!! he instigated them to answer!
You are the worst, magefag apologist

>>55080098
Not entirely.
I made them a race of immortals, and they happened to come upon a small family in the US.

>>55080072
Oh I thought I was the only black guy to play this nonsense. Still think trans people are gross and weird. Baby steps I guess.

These threads never fail to make me laugh

>>55080144
sounds like a different kind of npc, but totally wod anyways.
More info?

>>55080122
If you're going to repost wyrdhamsters stuff from the OPP forums you could at least have the common decency to copy the whole link instead of what OPP forums shorten it to when displaying it.

>>55080166
Why are you trying to sabotage my (you)s faggot?

>>55080194
Because your inability to copy a link properly triggered my computer autism.

>>55080140
The discussion going on before he popped in was just about general rules, not Mage. Nobody was talking about Mage until he brought it up and whined. So yeah, he started it.

>>55080153
To each. I just have no issues with concepts, only how people play.
>>55080162
They are a race of semi-divine beings, similar to demons in the scale of things, and linked to the spirit world similarly to werewolves.
They had a small group of allied spirits that the pack had encountered because because they were encroaching on their territory looking for a magrath that was nesting there that had raided the the spirits home turf.
I kludge together some mechanics taking inspiration from Demon, Immortals and Hunter.

>>55080122
What the fuck is non-binary?

>>55080231
Not adhering to male/female divide.
Many cultures have a term for it, and things like shamans traditionally do not have it applied to them.
They are not male or female, they are a shaman.

>>55080211
A troll is a natural phenomenon, you can't blame it any more than one can blame a hurricane. Its your poor response to it that continues to make it a problem, just like a hurricane.

>>55079956

But how does one determine weapon rating?

Do you equip upgrades? is there literally a +1 or Masterwork sword equivalent?

Could I shield a vampire from sunlight using Forces 2?

>>55080251
This is a backwards belief picked up my modern leftists who are usually transphobic and don't want to admit it, so they project magical third gender tropes on to trans people. This is what phil brucatto does. Its just disgusting poorly executed virtue signaling.

>>55080251
*men/women

They are not men or women. Not male or female. Most cultures historically did not have a gender/sex divide.

>>55080268
in 1e Its just the number listed for the the weapon. Either a XB or XL, indicating the number to add to your dice roll and the type of damage it inflicts, which is the number of successes.

>>55080251
There are no genders outside of male or female. Just mental illnesses that should be treated, not normalized or encouraged.

>>55080280
That's a good question

>>55079702
No they are not. Changelings are Magical Realm escapees. Demons are rouge Matrix agents.

>>55080292
>Most cultures historically did not have a gender/sex divide.
Source?

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>>55080268
Listed on the actual weapon info.

I'm sorry, anon, but you may actually be too stupid not only for WoD, but for any game.

>>55080251
>>55080292
That is some grade A bullshit. Next you will be telling us that Matriarchies was thing in the past as well

>>55080282
>This is a backwards belief picked up my modern leftists
Anon, it has literally existed for millenia.
>>55080300
K
>>55080317
Native American cultures.
Polynesian cultures.

>>55080308
And that would make the awakened red pill takers?

>>55080330
>Native American cultures.
>Polynesian cultures.
These are a series of words, not sources. Show me the proof.

>>55080360
>>55080330
And you don't see those cultures forcing the projection of the only positive sterotype they know culturally on to every single person who sort of resembles it, which you have Phil doing in every book it comes up.

>>55080330
Also, Chinese Eunuchs, iirc.
>>55080360
>spoonfeed me so I'm less ignorant!
Sorry, anon, no time, I need to leave for work.
>>55080397
I'm not talking about Phil, I'm referring to mythological and historical precedent. You are the one trying to make this about the devs for some reason.

>>55080360
>>55080330
They are also stagnated societies that would have never evolved past primitive hunter gatherers with out our intervention.

>>55080428
>Sorry, anon, no time, I need to leave for work.
Sure you do. Proving your claims isn't spoongeeding, by the way. It's burden of proof. It's not on anybody but you to prove your argument, and if you don't then whatever you say is unsubstantiated and meaningless.

>>55080280
Yes...?

>>55080338
Well, yes. In that analogy Mages are Neo.

I smell tumblr

>>55080440
>with out our intervention
>making a White Man's Burden argument
Oh anon :3
>>55080468
I didn't think it was such rare knowledge that 'd had to spoonfeed it to a random anon on a chan. I learned it in high school back in the 90s, it speaks more about your education and lack of it than anything else.

>>55080317
Wait, what do you want me to cite? The fact that idea of gender was discovered/invented (depending on how you want to slice it) around 50s? It's relatively modern thing, you realize that, right?

>>55080440
>everything just happens to confirm my utterly uneducated beliefs
>what a coincidence
>my brains haven't been replaced with a permanent url to Breitbart or anything

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>>55080531
>The fact that idea of gender was discovered/invented (depending on how you want to slice it) around 50s? It's relatively modern thing, you realize that, right?

>>55080537
Humans only have one brain libtard

>>55080549
>I'll use greentext to make that true statement seem silly.
>I have no idea what we are talking about.

>>55080531
>>55080650
There's no way you're NOT trolling. Very badly, I might add.

>>55080679
There is no way you are NOT trolling. Very badly, I might add.

Here, I can do that too. Why won't you educate yourself? At least try googling stuff you are talking about.

>>55080705
>doesn't know how to greentext

lel

>>55080722
Okay, so you are a bad troll. Moving along.

>>55080753
:^)

>>55080705
Gender was invented in the 50's? What the fuck are you talking about? Gonna need a source on that one.

>>55080784
Her source is gender studies

>>55080784
I never said that gender was invented. The concept of sex/gender divide was not calcified in scientific circles until works of people like John Money. Hell, the concept of gender as a thing is 20th century thing.

>>55080813
Okay, then where did gender come from?

>>55080813
Definitely a troll

>>55080840
You fell for the bait nigga

>>55080325

Type, Damage, range, clip, strength, size, and cost.

None of these says 'Rating' and I haven't found the bit in the rules that tells me how I determine rating from one or more of those numbers.

The chart is numbers that I haven't been told how to interpret. I found the chart. The chart is useless to me because I don't know what it's measuring, or how it's measuring it.

>>55080813
You absolutley said gender was invented. I believe your words were "discovered/invented." You're just straight up lying now.

>>55080868
I used to word invented because I meant the concept of it. Which was invented. We were talking about sex/gender divide. In such sense gender was invented just like any other new cultural/sociological concept.

>>55080840
What do you mean where it came from? It's an intrinsic part of humans, probably since the culture existed. It was never defined nor separated from sex until the work of culture scientists and sexologists of 20th century.

Don't respond to it

>>55080917
This

>>55080917
>>55080920
>samefagging this hard

>>55080929
Man's gotta do what he's gotta do

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>>55080929

>>55080942
I think you meant the neutrois demi-boy :^)

>>55080962
>hurr durr you can't fake a screenshot!

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>>55080705
>educate yourself
No further derail necessary.

Why would the Pentacle conspire to control a large corporation, and what would their methods be? What sort of internal conflicts would they have about it?

>>55079702
>>55080308
>Demon is Changeling
>No they are not. Changelings are Magical Realm escapees. Demons are rouge Matrix agents.

Demons are changelings who watched Person of Interest

>>55080969
Wait what the fuck

This is why we need the Magefags

>>55080521
>I smell tumblr

Open a window...

>>55080980
>triggered!!!

>>55081007
I am making fun of how much of a tumlbfag you are.

I read in opp forums that sundered world is one of the best things to understand the pure tribes from forsaken? Is that good?

>>55081042
>tumblrfag calling another anon a tumblrfag

lol

>>55080980

Assuming that it wasn't because of something specific to the company itself (Ie trying to stop them from dumping toxic waste somewhere), same reasons anybody would want control over a large company: Money, power, and resources.

As for how.... they're mages. They can read minds, crib notes from the future to see how their latest scheme is going to work out, create exotic forms of matter with their minds, literally be in two or more places at once.....

Honestly I ' the Pentacle' seems weirdly wide reaching for something like that. If they need the company for some greater purpose I imagine that they'd just send a talented Warlock to just seize power, because as long as the company wasn't made out of Werewolves and other Mages or something, it's pretty solidly a one man job.

>>55081042
I think you got me mixed up with the other guy, I wasn't the guy with the 50s gender statement, I was the guy who said that guy was baiting, also I said "wait what the fuck' because I spaced out and forgot how 4chan worked and thought the (you) meant I had called myself a Jimmy Neutron demi-god or whatever

>>55080993
No they aren't fuck off otherkin.

>>55081058
Not the Pentacle as a whole, just a group of Pentacle mages. As opposed to Seers, we have a pretty good idea why and how THEY would.

>>55081055
>>55081062

But anon. Only a tumblrfag would be mad about someone stating that gender is relatively new concept. Tumlbrites think it's ancient, profound and special. And that blakc people knew and understood it back in B.C.

>>55078505
>>55078562
>Obrimos legacy with Death Ruling vampire Hunter

If you want the mage's Obsession to strictly be about discovering magic, have part of the legacy's philosophy or motivation include the study of vampire blood magic, usually through painful experiments on leeches.

>There's nothing wrong with vivisecting vampires, they're already dead. It's no different than a necropsy of particularly virulent cryptid.

>>55081098
Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhh I get it now

Haha nice

I believe the "gender was discovered in the 1950's" argument is little more than rehashing postmodernist, gender studies nonsense that has evolved from the "gender and sex" are different things because otherwise transgenders would simply be people suffering from sever mental illness in need of counseling, not new pronouns.

>>55081081
>>55081058
>>55080980
Too high-profile for a Guardian Labyrinth or Ladder Cryptopoly. They'd rather get employees into a secret society than fuck with a big corporation itself.

>>55081225

Everyone knows that the board of directors of every major corporation in the CofD is made up of mages and vampires. Very occasionally, there's a regular human, but he or she is usually just the dupe/slave/cult devotee/etc. of a mage or vampire.

>>55081067

Demons are changelings that are triggered by the idea of being a changeling.

>>55081081

Well, I would imagine, again, for the same reasons anybody would want to own a company, unless they were specifically after something. Basically they're after power, in either the specific sense or the general sense.

Someone who took control of Google would have root access to half the world's smartphones. That's a pretty solid reason right there, without any of the other benefits that owning the only search engine used by anybody, or just Google place as a large influence in the tech industry at large.

So like, look at a company, and think about what they would gain in a mundane sense out of controlling it. There's a Starbucks on every corner, they could use Feng Shui to try and control where leylines go. Wal-Mart is the world's larger corporation, and has the most robust system of mass transport, warehouses, and distribution logistic in general because of that. Great opportunity to smuggle shit right there: bury the goods in a truck under some low low prices.

AT&T owns and maintains like 90% of the world's cell phone towers. If a Free Council mage can't find a way to turn that to their advantage they're an idiot.

As for the how.... that would depend on the group's standard operating procedure. I mean, we're talking about someone who's base power starts at 'reality warper'. Starts. They could literally replace the board of directors with Mages, plant one of their people as a secretary to someone important to pull the strings, riddle their IT department with spies so they can blackmail whoever they want into compliance.

>>55081216

The way people use the terms 'gender' and 'sex' kinda bother me in this context. Not because I agree or disagree with any of the points raised, but to me Sex is a verb (as in sexual intercourse). So Gender is Male/Female physically, Sex is a verb, and I feel like there should be a third, seperate word for this new thing.

>>55081271
"Any luck finding mage candidates?"
"Everybody who joins is already a vampire."
"Goddammit, this is why I told you to schedule the meetings during the day!"

>>55081216
It's not rehashing anything. You can read up on John Money right now. Hell, the guy even has his wikia page. The concept of gender was invented in the 50s. It since has been rung through the social sciences and now is connected to the whole super rainbow thing. It was a sound (even if developed in an extremely unprofessional and borderline vile way) theory.

>>55081271

I like to imagine there's the occasional guy who rises to power without being manipulated or being aware of the supernatural or something.

Like all of the Mages, vampires, etc. on the board just vote to let Dave be the actual CEO running the day to day just because he's actually just really good at this.

>>55080993
Changelings are Demons who did not Fall. They were kicked out because even God-Machine has faggotry capacity.

>>55081314
>They were kicked out because even God-Machine has faggotry capacity.

So, the True Fae are really nothing but the God Machine's middle management?

>>55081271
>the board of directors of every major corporation in the CofD is made up of mages and vampires.

True, and they always hire beasts to run the human resources department.

>>55081351
You joke but Demon's Storyteller Guide suggests pretty much that. From Demon's perspective True Fae are special kind of archangels that oversee some different reality project of God-Machine.

>>55080268
>>55080858

Homie, it's the size. I have no idea where it says it in the rules offhand, but that's the one you're looking for.

So a weapon with a size 1 is a Rating 1 which is a +1 to your dice pool for attacking, and a size 2 is a rating 2 which is a +2 etc. There might be a way to change that number, but that's the base.

It was proposed that an Archmage *built* the God-Machine as a way to reunite itself with the Supernal, but how would one accomplish this in Imperial terms?

>>55081303
If something goes wrong and you have to get rid of the CEO to get the public's trust back or for legal reasons or whatever, it's easier if he can't do no magic.

>>55081397
It doesn't really matter. Because no one plays Archmage games. Just make it up as you go along.

>>55081384
Damage is the rating

>>55081397
That's wrong though, the God Machine predates the Exarchs ascension

>>55081413

I don't even play WoD. I just figured that if I showed up and acted like I knew shit, someone would either back me up or correct me.

>>55081434
The theory is that the God-Machine was originally a Supernal God, dethroned by the power hungry Atlantean wizard kings AKA the Exarchs.

An Archmage *built* the God-Machine as some sort of failsafe. Perhaps out of pity or other ulterior motive.

>>55081397
Well that depends on what the God Machine is exactly. Angels and Demons are fairly well described by Ochemata and other such things. My pet theory for this sort of situation is that the God Machine is actually a Chantry made with Time, Matter, and Prime that automatically forces itself into reality using the memetic symbolism created by its interaction with Sleepers.

Obviously to get 8 dots in 3 Arcana as well as all of the Quintessence necessary to create your metaphysical realm and army of Ochemata would be an incredible task. That's why some of the infrastructure made by the God-Machine uses Sleepers to perform bizarre tasks in the Fallen World. The symbolic value of the things they do as a result of the Archmage's interference is what creates the power necessary to fuel his or her magic.

>>55081434
But did it ALWAYS predate the Exarchs' Ascension? Don't forget one of them is the Exarch of Time, and they left many broken and invalidated timelines in their wake.

>>55081397
>It was proposed that an Archmage *built* the God-Machine as a way to reunite itself with the Superna

Imperial Mysteries (pre-GM Chronicles), as a story hook, suggests that the God Machine was a fallen supernal god that is trying to build or utilize a supernatural matrix or machine in order to ascend.

File: God-Machine.png (22KB, 321x127px) Image search: [Google]

22KB, 321x127px

>>55081434
The God-Machine in its current form might not have, that's the point of the proposition.

>>55081476
Hmmmm, I rather like this.

>>55081402
>If something goes wrong and you have to get rid of the CEO to get the public's trust back or for legal reasons or whatever, it's easier if he can't do no magic.

That's why the real powers only take seats on the board of directors, and except for the occasional key operative, let regular humans run the day to day affairs of the corporation.

>>55081476
I recall that Archmages can use Imperial spells to 'farm' the relevant Quintessence as needed.

Makes sense. An engine of sorts.

>>55081303
>Like all of the Mages, vampires, etc. on the board just vote to let Dave be the actual CEO running the day to day just because he's actually just really good at this

They only think "Dave" is a regular human. The Truth is a great and terrible Mystery.

>The servants of the Komodo Lord will control Google today, and tomorrow, the world...

>>55081580
>This quarter, we will be boosting earnings through MAGE SUPREMACY, I mean BRAND SYNERGY

>>55081470
That's a shitty theory. The better theory is that the GM and the Principle are two halves of a broken former whole, and the Dark Mother is too busy taking a nap to realize the whole thing has gone to shit.

oWoD question, can an Ability Specialisation be used to get more successes when using any kind of superpower? Being a Discipline, Gift, Sphere or Lore? Or it works only when using normal rolls?

>>55081580
>>55081606

You know what would be even funnier?

If he was just a dude without an agenda. Just a normal mortal.

And he knows everything. And that's why he was chosen. Because the mages, vampires, secret hunter conspiracy, etc all want a piece of the pie, and the alternative to war is to hire a politically neutral guy to run shit objectively.

He is simultaneously the weakest person in the room and completely untouchable.

To the surprise of everyone, Dave's just really good at his job and a genuinely likable guy.

>>55081610
That theory is even worse.

>>55081610
>involving the shitty Beast in the pure Promethean, Mage and Demon theorycrafting

Yuck.

>>55081655
>No agenda
>genuinely likable guy
>politically neutral
>knows about the supernatural

>CEO of major corporation

>something seems out of place

Will OPP ever expand on the Principle?

It's about the only area that *might* be able to triumph over supernal privilege.

>>55081798
Probably not, because it isn't really required for it to be expanded on for Promethean to function.

Which is unfortunate, because a few of the refinements are focused on trying to figure out the mystery of their nature. But without us knowing much of anything about the principle, every ST is just making something up if someone digs too deep in that side of things.

>>55081798
>It's about the only area that *might* be able to triumph over supernal privilege.

The theory dictates that the Principle is Supernal related. Nothing trumps the Supernal...

>>55081841
That's just one theory.

Honestly, considering souls don't seem to go 'up' to the supernal, while the principle is one of the forces able to craft a human soul from scratch, we might be looking at something else.

>>55081779

No, see, he didn't WANT the job, per se, he was just the guy who was chosen to do it. Like, they grabbed a dude off the street, told him the fucking truth, and put him in a suit.

>>55081967

>>55067317
Archmages automatically win a Clash of Wills against lesser creatures. Try again.