How useful is spear and shield for adventuring?

>>55062756

It's pretty crucial.
Most things you'll encounter will be mindless beasts, usually stronger than a man, where the long reach comes in handy.
The shield is great no matter what you're fighting.

And, besides, a spear is very easy and cheap to repair.

I mean, unless your system is one where reach doesn't count or burying a spear into your opponent somehow deals little damage.

>>55062808
It can also double as a walking stick assuming it isn't particularly heavy if you can't hail a taxi to where you're going. Also useful on horseback if you are adventuring with mounts.

Definitely an asset for the team. I mean, not everyone can be a wall, but also not every wall can be a wall that aggressively stabs you if you get too close, and on which you impale if you are dumb enough to charge.

I like to play runequest. when creating a new character and choosing a starting weapon I always go with spears

shortspear (1H, size M, cost 20sp)
longspear (2H, size L, cost 30sp)

for starters they are very affordable (a knife costs 10sp) and have the Impale effect.
Impale lets you re roll your damage roll and keep the highest value. You can also leave the weapon in the wound which makes all successive rolls by that character more difficult. A human sized enemy impaled by a shortspear gets a -40% penalty. The longspear penalty is -80%

In practice once you impale someone the fight is over.
also if the entire party uses shields+spears all enemies lose 1 action point which makes everything even easier

They'd be pretty awkward in caves and tunnels

>>55062860
Not unless you have a stirrup

>>55063128
Folks have fought with spears from horseback before stirrups became a thing/commonplace. You won't be able to get a sick balls to the wall charge in, but you can still poke people while riding at a slower pace.

>>55063125

Or a house or manor

>>55063125
>>55063196
Surely in an enclosed environment where the other guy has no ability to get around your point, a spear would be ideal. It becomes a game of reach, and you have the superior reach.

>>55063342
They could deflect it then you'd be stuck

>>55063342
Unless the other guy has a spear and shield.

>>55062756
This picture is neat. Got any other pictures of spearmen?

File: 95boask.jpg (38KB, 480x480px) Image search: [Google]

38KB, 480x480px

>>55062756

Scratch the shield. Get a heavier two-handed boar spear for killing monsters.

File: Sir MyNameIsNotImportant.jpg (58KB, 564x876px) Image search: [Google]

58KB, 564x876px

>>55064013

File: Balsa.png (1MB, 1920x1080px) Image search: [Google]

1MB, 1920x1080px

The spear is one of the most-used weapons in history, and for good reason. Easy to make, easy to learn, high skill ceiling, pragmatic outside of combat, effective against both infantry and cavalry.

In a vacuum, it'd be my melee weapon of choice.

>>55063792
If there's walls all around, he'll have very little space to advance through even if he knocks it aside.

If you hit someone's point aside, it doesn't go wildly careening. You step back and there's a very real chance you can skewer them.

Also, that's why spearmen carry swords. If the gap's going to close, drop the spear and draw it.

>>55063840
One-handed spears are either short or unwieldy.

>>55064132
So... what system does it do justice?

>>55064157
>One-handed spears are either short or unwieldy.
I'd still give the guy with the shield the advantage in the original scenario. A shield+spear combo is going to be better than a long spear in enclosed spaces where too much reach can make it impossible to even turn a corner without have to awkwardly maneuver the shaft around. Yeah, it depends on the exact dimensions of the space available, but a shield is a pretty pretty damn useful is most situations. This is assuming both combatants are equally lightly armored and properly trained in their respective weapons of course.

>>55064132
>Moribito
Man, I enjoyed the hell outta that show.
Such a damned shame that Adult Swim dropped their Anime for a while right in the middle of showing it.
Balsa having the same voice as Major Kusanagi turns me diamonds.

>>55064132
>pragmatic outside of combat
Nigga what? It's completely conspicuous, large and fairly heavy, and can't be conveniently set aside and quickly drawn like most smaller weapons can. Going into a battle, sure it's a good pick. But for everyday odd adventuring jobs in dungeons and cities, it's shit tier.

>>55064051
>Monster has two heads
Yer fucked now Bucko.

>>55064685
>Monster has two heads
What?
Boar spears go in the other guy's chest not head. The point is to jab it in the center of the creature's mass so it doesn't pull away or push toward you with its larger heavier body. Extra heads don't mean a thing.

Instead of 'how good they are', I guess it's more productive to think of 'when' or 'where'.
- The dream situation is the spartan case: everyone short on armor, wall/box formation, in a corridor (no flanking), the enemies all packing shorter-ranged weapons, you can throw the spear and get a sword for closer combat.
- The more heavily-armored everyone is, the less effective this combination becomes. Bigger armors make shields less appealing and one-handed spears don't do enough that much harm on plated warriors.
- Heavy plating renders shields mostly worthless... just trust the armor and grab a bigger weapon. Jousting (mounted versus mounted) may be the exception.
- in one-on-one battles, this combination kindda gets in an awkward position: loses in range and harming power against longer spears/polearms and lack flexibility in comparison to flails, maces and swords in short combat
- closed spaces (like inside a house) are one-handed spear's doom. And big shields aren't much better

>>55064807
A boar spear works with boars because they don't stop trying to get whatever is attacking them to fuck off and just keep going forward, even then it still requires a massive amount of strength to keep it at a distance. A monster with multiple heads able to change where it wants to attack from, a long neck, sufficient mass, any form of tail attack, longer arms for swiping etc etc, leaves most of the benefits of a boar spear null.

File: 3.jpg (356KB, 1600x1200px) Image search: [Google]

356KB, 1600x1200px

Move over, best weapon coming through.

>>55063342
>It becomes a game of reach, and you have the superior reach.
and what is she has the flexibility?

>>55062756
The spear, the backbone of empires, king of the battlefield, this thing is so fucking practical and useful that it only fell in disuse by the most modern of armies by the late 17th century and for a good reason, couple that with a shield and you can turn into an impenetrable wall of long range melee

Well I'm playing a phalanx soldier in a pathfinder game right now and assuming you are okay with tripping enemies, you can become a trip king fast and easy. Use a Bill and you can trip people at reach without provoking AoO because they can't hit back. Get greater trip and you can get 2 AoO on them with 1 trip on a guy. Get things like pin down and combat patrol and you get decent mobility to keep this up at and stop 5ft steps with in your reach zone. With the phalanx soldier archetype you get to provide cover to allies with your shield so there is that too.

>>55062756
Spear is almost always good.

In most systems:
>cheap
>longer reach
>decent damage/speed/mobility

Outside of combat mechanics:
>poke traps from a distance without getting hit
>poke monsters to see if they're dead
>poke things you suspect to be mimics
>poke other shit
>tie things to it to carry stuff
>use as a tent pole, part of a stretcher, or various other camp crafts
>use as a lever for prying things
>use as a wedge for holding things open
>fishing pole
>flag pole
>pole vaulting

Shield really just depends on the system. They don't seem very useful in most RPGs unless you're doing the whole "tank archetype". And outside of combat it's just weighing you down.

Reminder that unless your character is a noble or a mercenary he or she should really have either a spear, an axe or a short sword at best.

>>55064132
I would stick to something with a lower mass for combat in vacuum, like a knife.

>>55064187
GURPS. Not even memeing. Throw in the additional stuff from Martial Arts and Technical Grappling and the expanded gear catalog of Low-Tech and you're even better.

File: 1463729785519.jpg (72KB, 691x792px) Image search: [Google]

72KB, 691x792px

If you love spears so much, why don't you marry them?!

>>55065128
So like a hydraulic? But not just long necks n heads but long arms and tails n shit? Sounds like more a cathullu monster.

I mean against such a monster would normal weapons even work?

>>55065741
Can I get a meat cleaver tied to a stick?>>55065783

>>55065204
Theres a reason people stopped using them

>>55062756
Pretty good. Shields are great, and spears are too. For something a bit more rough and tumble though, axe and shield may prove more compact and utilitarian.

>>55063128
Just tie a bowline and hang one from each side of your saddle. Boom, stirrups

>>55066010
Like a voulge?

File: No_4_Mk_I.jpg (91KB, 1600x368px) Image search: [Google]

91KB, 1600x368px

>>55064051
I literally have a boar spear 1H though. It sits hidden close to my door. Never bothered to screw the head to the shaft but I've tried like hell to get the head off and it won't budge. I also have a tried and true machete in my dining room, a Lee Enfield rifle and 80lb compound bow in my bedroom along with swords varying from fantasy to functional to actually have been used in various sometimes strategic locations throughout my house.

Pic related my Lee Enfield

>>55067183
And by 1H I mean short but I'd still use both hands for the extra force. Probably cause I don't have a shield and it's use would be limited to reactionary

>>55063125
>>55063128
That's why a good spearmen has a sword too. Every weapon has its place

>>55064132
>pragmatic outside of combat

A spear is a soldier's weapon. Heavy and a huge bitch to lug around. It takes up a hand no matter what.

Rich people wore swords because they're portable, lighter, prettier, fit through doors, and don't get in the way. It's similar to the reasons why armed civilians and many guards tend to carry pistols and not rifles. The smaller version does the job without getting in the way as much.

>>55063128
People have used spears from horseback well before the advent of the stirrup. Look at Macedonian Companions and Iranian cataphracts. Even then if the adventurers are medieval tech level they should have stirrups so its largely a moot point anyway.

File: demonlord gunlance.png (18KB, 256x251px) Image search: [Google]

18KB, 256x251px

Fuck regular spears
Add a shotgun to it

File: 1430902706525.jpg (30KB, 505x999px) Image search: [Google]

30KB, 505x999px

>>55068282
Also it made sense to have a sidearm in a mounted context, in case a spear or lance broke.

Sometimes it is a little sad how even some of the simplest fantasy games offer a lot of variety in weapons, but most just don't have the utility to be useful to take, or they're just clearly outstatted. It's a rare weapon that's completely useless, but in a lot of games half of them are.

>>55065795
MAH NIGGA

>>55068330
There's also the problem that most games with lots of weapon variety make them all play the same. Breath of the Wild might have hammers, clubs, and halberds, but they play identically to greatswords, one-handed swords, and spears respectively.

>>55068446

ninety percent of the time doesn't it just come down to how many dice you roll? with bigger weapons having more or bigger dice, and no other considerations taken really? You know what, I'll bite

>>55068341
>>55065795

How does GUPRS do it that represents them all properly and hopefully uniquely?

Useless in all d&d edition and clones
Better in WFRP

>>55066063
Actually, Egyptian smiths spend years working on a single khopesh and fold it up to one times to produce the finest blades known to mankind.

>>55068508

A spear gives a reach advantage over other weapons, some of them can be pulled in to shorter range as well with different grips. They deal Impaling damage which doubles your damage (cutting only 1.5x). The tradeoff being that they deal 'thrust' damage which is affected by strength quite a bit less than 'swing' damage like a sword, but with the damage modifiers it tends to even out to the same thing without munchkinning.

With the ability to retreat/back up being a staple of combat in gurps you can keep a guy at bay stabbing at him for a very long time in non closed areas. His only real recourse is to attempt to run and attack at you, which lowers his chances of hitting by a lot. There's also a few fancy maneuvers you can try to pull with a spear but each weapon type tends to have a few.

>>55068845
GRORIOUS KANG STEEL
FORDED ONE MIRRION TIMES

Why can't wizards use spears? Even peasants know how to use one.

>>55067183
Let my buy the Enfield.

>>55069299
Considering that mages tend to use staves it's bizarre they can't use spears.

>>55065319
Stick it in her cloaca

>>55065319
>Turian sex fantasies
Not even once

get past a spear's tip and the weapon is all but useless, i'm not sure it would be useful for the wide variety of tasks an adventurer may need. hard to go mountain climbing with a spear, harder to sneak into a noble's mansion, harder still to crawl through goblin-infested tunnels. Better if the rest of the group is similarly equipped and rear ranks can support those in front, or with plate armor and a short sword or dagger replacing the shield.

>>55069802

Why not divert the river into the goblin-infested tunnels?

>>55069820
Need to preserve them so precious materials (whether mineral or cultral or whatever) can be extracted easily. also, a dude with a dagger (or several dudes with daggers), are probably cheaper than a massive aquatic engineering project.

>>55069871

It's not that big when armies did it regularly to fuck over castles.

File: 1465836894793.jpg (20KB, 379x364px) Image search: [Google]

20KB, 379x364px

>not using double murderbuckets as a weapon

>>55069885
i mean, if you want to pay an entire army instead of like, 5 competent tunnel rats, go ahead.

>>55069980

Why don't block the entrance and pay 5 militamen to guard the blocked hole?

>>55064132
That is known as a mace.

A lump of metal that you swing down and break bones, spears, shields.

>>55062756
Difference between spears and lances?

>>55062756
My opinion: if your adventuring buddies have plenty of spear and shield users and the rules have something like the old AD&D rule about receiving charges, very useful. After all, plenty of people with spears and shields are what shield walls were all about.

>>55068282
Spears aren't that heavy. It's a seven-foot, one-inch-diameter stick of ash with a narrow metal bit at one end.

>>55070302
If you're using a couched lance in a charge, they tend to be longer and with a bit more diameter to the shaft. You want a stout weapon to put in a solid hit, not one that breaks before you've driven the point completely through the unlucky bastard on the receiving end.

>>55070302

Lance is meant for cavalry.

>>55063125
Not really, it's a purely thrusting motion, no risk of hitting the walls or cealing.
Now if it was a pike you might have some trouble, but for a short spear its the ideal environment

>>55070418
You can use a lance inD&D without horses though

>>55068446
Polearms ruled in Two Worlds 2.

It was kind of a shitty, nonsensical game in general, but it was cool that polearms were so good.

Speaking from a real world perspective, I practice historical martial arts and I fucking hate fighting a competent spearman ot staff.

The thing everyone forgets is the speed of the things, the length and leverage means the fucker can feint at your feet, then have the blade back in your face before you can get a sword back up to guard.

On the other hand, I'm glad I don't have to carry the fucking thing around to practice, spears are a pain in the arse on the tram.

File: Bez.jpg (100KB, 809x459px) Image search: [Google]

100KB, 809x459px

>>55070432

They aren't meant to work that way. You use them with a horse running at fast speed. Lances are often equipped with a vamplate (a small circular plate to prevent the hand sliding up the shaft upon impact). They are not designed to be used by infantrymen, it would be awkward to use for them.

File: 1503086168926.jpg (313KB, 1200x740px) Image search: [Google]

313KB, 1200x740px

>spears.
>not pikes.

>>55070502

>hey, let's explore this twisty underground labyrinth full of deadly monsters
>imma bring my 20 foot long piece of wood with a kitchen knife on the end that's only ideal on formation against cavalry
>yeah. No, fuck off Dave, you're not coming you cunt

>>55070524

It's the perfect weapon to kill dragons and trolls. If the cave is that cramped and twisted, how did they manage to enter it in the first place?

>>55070524
Pike formations would be ideal fit r confined places like that.

>>55070597
>>55070544

Two words.

BREATH.
WEAPON.

>>55070597

Nah m8, you need a zweihander for that. Literally designed for clearing out alleyways.

>>55070544

Dragons can change form you mong

>>55070636
>breath weapon that shoots out spears and shields
It's beautiful..

>>55063128
>>55068323
Let's also not forget that Roman saddles get the job done as well if you really want to do lance charges.

>>55065710
>outside of combat it's just weighing you down.
Metal shields can double as frying pans/woks, if that kind of game is your thing.

>>55066010
>>55066959
I've always been partial to the long handled dadao, or the nagamaki if I'm playing l5r.

>>55069299
>>55069442
Depends on the system.

>>55068329
I respect your life style

>>55065319
kek i understand this reference

>>55065066
>Heavy plating renders shields mostly worthless...
friend what
getting smacked by a lump of metal still hurts like hell. shield >>>> armor every day. I prefer not getting hit at all

>>55069180
Is it possible to force him back with a spear then?

>>55068845
>fold it up to one times

>>55069802
>get past a spear's tip and the weapon is all but useless

Wait

Wait

But what if like

You pulled it backward and stabbed again

>>55070389
>Spears aren't that heavy. It's a seven-foot, one-inch-diameter stick of ash with a narrow metal bit at one end

I know they're not that heavy in absolute terms, but I mean in relation to other weapons.

I suppose the bulk and shape are the bigger issue though.

>>55071573
>>55069802
Or hit them with the haft? Or turned it and bashed his balls with the butt end?

>>55071500
Most kopesh were cast, not forged.

>>55062756
I mean one stops you getting hurt,
and the other lets you hurt things from a distance.

I recommend taking several and becoming the Velite / Triarii

>>55071410
He means that historically, when full armor developed, shields started to fall out of fashion in favor of two-handed weapons.

Layers of curved metal plates, chain, and padding all already serve to deflect, distribute, and absorb force. When you already have that protection on every part of the body, a shield does not add much more to justify its weight and taking up of a hand. You certainly can do it, but most of a shield's utility is already provided by plate armor.

File: mongrels.jpg (254KB, 1280x720px) Image search: [Google]

254KB, 1280x720px

>>55070752

>>55071500
have you ever tried to fold metal with your bear hands?

>>55064051
THE BOOOOOAAAR GOT ME, NED

>>55070466
Same here anon, I feel your pain. Dealing with polearms sucks dick. A competent fighter can pull some nasty tricks and have you disarmed and on your knees in seconds.

>>55071854
Go back to /tv/

>>55064580
same here anon Morbito was great some people disliked it calling it slow.

>>55068508
Well, at least in D&D, sometimes it comes down to what kind of dice you role - a longsword rolls a d8, but a scimitar rolls a d6, which obviously means the scimitar is worse. There's also how often they crit to consider, which might make the pick and it's x4 crit on a 20 interesting, but it doesn't really make up for the fact that it's worse overall.

File: Nigel funny isn't it.jpg (33KB, 590x350px) Image search: [Google]

33KB, 590x350px

>>55065247
>Funny, isn't it?

>>55070544
>let me kill this troll by poking it with my pike a bunch of times

Brilliant idea

>>55071019
I read that as meat shields.
Oh god, a frying pan made of meat..

>>55070597
I think if /tg/ had its way, every race - elves, dwarves, halflings - would make heavy use of pikes in every situation, as it is the greatest weapon on the planet, of course.

But seriously, how are you supposed to form a pike formation in a cave? Have you ever been in a cave, even one of those cave systems they show off to tourists? Unless it is absolutely massive, or has been carved out already, there's not really room for any sort of formation. You need a lot of open ground for that. Same problem with thick woods and undergrowth, pikes are not 'ideal' in confined places.

>>55069436
Um no it was a prized birthday gift. Plus they're not that rare. At least the not the no.4 mk1. I've seen at least 2 in gun shops for around $350

Does the shield go on the left or right arm?

In either case, why?

>>55081783
It goes on the arm that isn't holding your weapon.

Some people fight southpaw for their own reasons, and that's okay.

>>55081981
where does your weapon goes to? I would assume it goes on your right arm since you usually the right arm is stronger than the left one but I dunno

>>55064051
>Scratch the shield.
t. almost every dead guy ever

>>55082010
If you're right-handed, right. Usually people are trained right-handed even if they're left-handed, especially if they're fighting as part of some formation so they know which way their shield will be covering the person next to them.

But if you're left-handed, learn to use your left. It's useful.

>>55082155
If you're hunting big monsters a shield isn't that helpful as you're kinda boned if you get hit regardless.

>>55082408
Get a bigger shield.

>>55082421
A shield that big you'd basically just have a wall.

>>55082452
I see zero issues with this.

>>55082408
Same deal if you're fighting a wizard, you know?

>>55082820
See in DnD ive always found it weird tgat shields dont add to touch ac
After all you arent touching me you're touching something im touching
It would be like if you could touch the ground and hit me with a touch spell, because im also touching the ground

And in a situation with a spell like fireball, more things between me and the fiery death is best

>>55082997
>bitching about problems from two editions ago

It's been fixed ever since 5th edition came out three years ago. Spell attacks target regular AC, and "touch AC" is no longer a thing.

>>55071690
Equally important is the fact that, if both combatants are equally armored, you need force behind strikes to actually do fuck all. It's why the murder stroke is a thing, turn that sword into a big ol club.

>>55071019
>metal
>shield

>>55062808
Depends on the environment you're expecting to fight in. When sieging a castle, for example, spears are pretty useless.

File: A_Thracesian_woman_kills_a_Varangian (1).png (846KB, 757x598px) Image search: [Google]

846KB, 757x598px

>>55064132
Spears are the ultimate home defence weapon. Even women can use them!
>Historical fencing (HEMA) Swords vs. Spears - thoughts and experiences -
scholagladiatoria
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l2YgGY_OBx8

>>55082155
shields are not very usefull against animals, a large shield especialy is mostly usefull when facing arrow fire.

Prep should be a big part of adventuring, when hunting a dragon you arent bringing a shield

>>55071410
You have no idea what you're talking about.

>>55068508
Song of Swords is basically built around this kind of combat, and has a lot of things to support that. If you want an interesting way to make weapons different, check it out.

>>55063125
still better than any weapon you have to swing surely?

File: raffing armor.jpg (24KB, 197x226px) Image search: [Google]

24KB, 197x226px

>>55065247
>sanada yukimura
>best samurai

>>55085074
>Game

>>55086037
pff
Spearguns (as in spear fishing)
are alot better and even more legal to use around the home/public
"i just had it with me because its apart of my hobby" is alot more explainable then "well i truly believe in having a halberd at hand at all times..." to a judge

>>55086193
>when hunting a dragon you arent bringing a shield
How else are you going to deflect the fire breath?

>>55090158
This. Beowulf knew.

>>55064187
Retro Phaze. It's a one-handed weapon, that you can throw and does no less damage than a sword or axe.

>>55064157
One-handed spears are good enough for Achilles.

>>55063121
>I like to play runequest
Good man!

My players think likewise. Although they hate me when I play up the hassle of lugging a heavy unwieldy shield around along with a 7' stick.

>>55066063
yeah, guns

>>55070881
As far as I remember, Romans used cavalry against routing enemies anyway. And it was "light" cavalry, so no cataphracts and lance charges. More like spear charges.

>>55095656
Now I'm getting flashbacks to RTW.

Running down routing enemies, bullying weaker archers, and maybe flanking were pretty much the only reason to use light cavalry in that game.

File: e62af2d76adb8bf9b425fbcfec481c84.jpg (434KB, 1024x747px) Image search: [Google]

434KB, 1024x747px

>>55062756
Good enough for 99% of human history. Sadly, most systems don't do spears or shields justice.

>>55069180
Spears are a great low cost option in GURPS. You can thrust with it, throw it, and replaceing it is pretty cheap if you lose or damage one.


>>55071475
Yep. The Martial Arts book has lots of rules for keeping someone at bay with a spear or other reach weapon.

>>55085233
When defending a castle on the other hand, they become crucial.

>>55062756
Historically spears have been hard-countered by two-handed long swords. The spear's strength and weakness has always been its reach.

In confined/crowded spaces like caves/buildings, you are wormfood

File: 1503508073289.png (26KB, 300x250px) Image search: [Google]

26KB, 300x250px

>>55062756
>Stab an orc in the gut with a spear.
>Made a minotaur character with absurd strength.
>Lift the spear up with the orc still skewed and fling him.
>Orc smashes into a group of advancing orcs, killing or injuring all of them.
>After fight is over, stab the orc bodies in the head and eat their heads like kebabs.
Spears are fucking dope.

>>55096927
>Historically spears have been hard-countered by two-handed long swords.

The meme of the greatsword (not a longsword) as a disruptive shock weapon is vastly overstated, and occupies a tiny fraction of the timeline in European battle tactics.

The use of spear and pike formation far precede and outlasts the use of greatswords by centuries. The only reason they leave the battlefield at all is due to the drop in production cost of firearms. Even then, organized use of spear and pike has documented use on the battlefield, well after its heyday.

File: 10-14-10 014.jpg (51KB, 650x867px) Image search: [Google]

51KB, 650x867px

>>55097153
>The spear is the most dangerous weapon in history!
>No weapon can counter the spear - it is versatile in any area of combat!
>If the world were to collapse into a post-apoc setting right now, the new world order would make use of spears to crush their enemies instead of scavenging guns or swords!

I am salt

>>55063792

No, because in the case of a deflection you can pull the spear back and jab it again significantly faster then someone can "deflect it" and then close in for the kill.

You're trying the same tired arguments people who don't actually know what spear fighting looks like always try to use.

>>55097153
>The only reason they leave the battlefield at all is due to the drop in production cost of firearms.

Shit you could even argue it stayed on the battlefield in the form of the bayonet.

>>55097153
>>55098745
Spears are good weapons for formation fighting. outside of formation fighting, it's a decent weapon but not a terribly versatile one.

Pikes are worse then useless in close combat. Caught in single combat with one it's best dropped.

>Long pikes were used after their hayday

A bit, but people pretty quickly realized how very bad an idea it is to deploy a block of pikemen to fight men with muskets and bayonets. A point blank volley followed by a charge could break the front of the pike formation and once in close a musket is a much, much better weapon, with or without a bayonet.

Long swords and halbrids were likewise murderous at breaking pikes, but didn't have the shock of that point blank volley to create an opening for a charge. They'd instead have to wait, or try to force their way in close. Either wasn't fun.

>>55098745
If you commit to a stab with a spear and it fails, you are in a bad place. Someone committed to closing with you can get close before you can recover. Unless you have a light, handy spear, it's not a place you want to be.

>>55098842

>If you commit to a stab with a spear and it fails, you are in a bad place.

No, you aren't, because "committing to a stab" with a spear is a shallow poke. If it fails to land it takes literally less than half a second to pull the spear back four inches and poke again, or take a step back.

The problem people like you have is that you think spear thrusts are these massive movements that require momentum- they don't. The spear tip only needs two or three inches of penetration to kill a person. As a result there's almost zero momentum and zero windup used to stab with a spear. Someone with zero training can easily stab with a spear two or more times a second while simultaneously stepping back and remaining out of your reach.

We desperately need a "masterwork spear folded over a million times" in this thread

>>55098975

>Stepping backwards while thrusting

So your plan is to put no energy into the motion, zero follow though, and have your feet off the ground as you go.

To kill you in this case literally all they have to do is keep after you and wait. Your unbalanced and poorly considered actions will end up with you on the ground soon enough where they can finish you off with no real risk, assuming you haven't hurt yourself falling down.

>>55098842
>>Spears are good weapons for formation fighting. outside of formation fighting, it's a decent weapon but not a terribly versatile one.
What are you basing this on? Ever seen someone use a spear in e.g. HEMA?
It depends on the type of spear, but plenty are extremely useful. Some people put polearms under spears, but I doubt that's what you mean, because polearms are obviously crazy good.

>>55096927
>Historically spears have been hard-countered by two-handed long swords.
lol

>>55062756
Spears are handy. Light, long, can be used as a knife in a pinch (though you should bring a proper knife anyway), you can use it as a stick for walking, a staff for bludgeoning, a measuring stick, to test swampy ground in front of you, as a yoke to carry a bindle, to spring traps from a distance, and you can throw it if you need to.

>>55098657
What the fuck are you talking about? Just use a gun.

>>55098771
Damn straight. Hell, we had actual pikes issued all the way through WWI.

>>55098842
>Spears are good weapons for formation fighting. outside of formation fighting, it's a decent weapon but not a terribly versatile one.

Have you ever read any historic manuals or practical use in martial arts? The reason there are many extant works devoted to countering spear useage is due to the effectiveness of the weapon.

>A bit, but people pretty quickly realized how very bad an idea it is to deploy a block of pikemen to fight men with muskets and bayonets.

The Swiss call your bluff.

>long swords and halbrids were likewise murderous at breaking pikes

Source this for me anon, because you're missing the points of these weapons as anti armour. As armour left the field, so did these weapons.

File: Kill the Wabbit.png (83KB, 307x375px) Image search: [Google]

83KB, 307x375px

>>55062756
OP, don't listen to these people. Spears and shields are worthless.

Spear and magic helmet on the other hand...

Seriously though, phalanges with shield walls were very potent in the past, it's unfortunate that in a lot of media, swords rule. In general, leverage is no joke, especially when pointy things are involved.

>>55101450
I just hate how it seems like whenever people talk about spears, it has no flaws - or if it does have flaws, those get explained away. Sometimes it almost sounds like that katana meme.

I get that it's been an underappreciated weapon for most of its long and ubiquitous history, but that doesn't mean people need to work its shaft so hard. It's got to have some flaws, and ignoring those to go on about how great it's been doesn't make it more appealing to me.

>>55103533
You're deflecting anon. He's not saying they are perfect, just that there are reasons they stuck around longer than meme weapons like greatswords.