>Sell your soul to the Devil >Get a cantrip

It's a really fucking good cantrip.

Wizards and Sorcerers are dumb fucks.

>>55056039
>implying wizards and sorcerers aren't the ones smart enough to just take Spell Sniper

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>Sell your soul to the Devil
>think getting anything would make it worth it

A cantrip or a kingdom might as well be one and the same.

>Make a mutualistic mentor/student "pact" with a lich
>Get the best combat cantrip

>>55056025
>sell your soul to the devil
>become powerful warlock
>overthrow said devil
>get sould back
its an investment

>>55056260
I want to fuck the smug out of that shitty loli.

if you're evil enough to sell your soul to the devil then you were likely going to go to hell anyway, so why not? Also, why would the devil even bother trying to bargain for your soul anyway if he's going to get it anyway?

I'd imagine the only soul bargaining going on is when the devil initiates the deal by looking for a good but corruptible person.

>>55056025
>not choosing a good patron
You have literally only yourself to blame.

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>>55056025
>Sell your soul to nature
>Get to turn into a bear

worth it desu

>>55056025
So wait a minute, that would mean one could
>>Sell your cantrip to the Devil
>>Get a soul
So a soul has an exchange rate equal to one cantrip.

>>55056446
Probably not, I doubt the devil wants any cantrip you're selling. Supply & Demand and all that, a basic part o9f any transaction. But you may be able to sell cantrips to other people for their souls if you're a good enough salesperson.

>>55056025
>>55056260
>making deals with shitty demons
>not finding princes like Buer and learning healing arts all for the price of being able to say his true name and invoke the authority of God on him.

>>55056505
Yeah but if there is demand for cantrips then a shortage may occur, and the devil may find himself making purchases to be able to control /meet all the demand.

>>55056210

>Taking a feat instead of selling your soul

I'll enjoy my Mobility, thank you very much.

>>55056308
"Powerful warlock" is an oxymoron.

>look at a book
>get psychically dickpunched by the aftereffects of Mrelxcleptreldex The Unpronounceable, Lord Of Freezing Blood from the 13th dimension of fuckitude's presence
>Get a cantrip and the ability to speak telepathically

>sell your cantrip to the soul
>get a Devil

>>55056025
is it a telekinesis-based cantrip? i'd literally sell my soul for not having to get up to get another beer any longer.

>>55056025
>go on a bender in the feywild
>wake up with a cantrip

>sell an iron car to a diamond wall
>get 100mph

>>55056370
>Sell your soul to nature
>Become entirely self-sufficient with magical food and water
>Become nearly impervious to all mundane harm via shapeshifting
>Eventually become able to reincarnate as a long-lived race in addition to your druidically increase lifespan to live 10,000+ years
>None of this involves damning your eternal soul by performing atrocities like a Lich or selling your soul like a Warlock
Druid is the thinking man's path

>>55056025
>Make a pact with the devil
>Get a cantrip
>Kill the devil
>Still have the cantrip

>Be redhead
>Sell your soul to the devil
>Get a cantrip
6 years later
>Devil: Wait a minute...fuck!

>>55057621
Kek

>>55057683
except that you can kill the devil, killing nature is harder

>>55058178
....why would you be killing nature?

>>55058269
Why - for the glory of Satan of course.

>>55058269
to get your soul back, what kind of caster lets some entity have that kind of power over him?

>Live in Faerun
>Observable evidence that the afterlife exists abounds
>Knowledge of the horrific things that happen to the faithless and worshippers of evil deities are commonplace
>Have literally dozens of gods to choose from in order to worship, essentially your choice of afterlife
>People still sell their souls to demons/devils
>People still worship evil deities that publicly advertise their horrific, torturous afterlives
>People still choose to not find a god they can faithfully worship and end up wall'd

I mean, shit, get it together

>>55058647
>>55058647
>Have literally dozens of gods to choose from in order to worship, essentially your choice of afterlife
That really doesn't mean you'll find one you actually like/agree with.

>>55058647
Of particular idiocy are characters which are built as atheists. Look, in real life I'm atheistic but in D&D most of the time you can literally talk to a god, as in go and actually have a conversation with them. Atheism makes no sense in D&D.

>>55059110
How hard could it be to find a God you agree with in Faerun; there's hundreds of the fuckers encompassing every vague philosophical concept from military strategy to video game speedruns

>>55059154
That doesn't necessarily mean you'll hear about them or meet worshipers of them that portray their religion in such away that you do.

>>55059175
I mean, 'I' will, being a handsome adventurer and all

But even in peasant towns there are typically worshipers of various deities, probably at least one priest, and at least the folk knowledge to understand there are lots of gods out there.
The real unfortunates are the people born to races whose deities have some kind of 'racial claim' on their souls like Tiamat and Half-Dragons

>>55058647

Not quite.
In D&D cosmology, what happens is that you go to an afterlife and eventually get absorbed into the energy of the place.

See, if you're the sort of person that doesn't mind hurting others and wants to get ahead, you go to the lower planes.
There, you are part of an infernal tyranny that grinds you down and a devil is assembled from the parts.
In the abyss, you just get eaten by a demon.
In Gehenna, you eventually turn into a larva that gives birth to a yugoloth.

If you pledge yourself to a devil, you get to be in his service in Hell.
This means you'll be slightly better off in the place you're already going.
And he gets a powerful servant.
Do well enough and maybe you can circumvent the part about being ground up and just straight up become a devil.

If you're a smart bad person, you become a warlock.
Or you can take your chances being a lich, but that's a riskier proposition. Remember that Liches give up everything but their ability to reason, while devils can still feel positive emotions, even be redeemed.

>>55059226
You probably won't meet all of them. Most peasants probably worship the same core 10 or so deities.

>>55059227
Reminder that you can't just become a lich. You get the necessary knowledge and help from entities like Orcus, and not for free. Basically every lich is Orcus' bitch.

>>55059227
Since when can devils be redeemed? Aren't they the very definition of Lawful Evil, inherently.

>>55059342
Yeah and of those 10 there are plenty of perfectly good choices; Chauntea, Sune, Torm... all fine and don't end up with you spending eternity as a slug-demon

It's people who somehow end up worshipping Loviatar or Beshaba that you have to wonder what their plan was.

>>55059227

> Remember that Liches give up everything but their ability to reason,

Is this something from 5e D&D?

>>55059438
>Yeah and of those 10 there are plenty of perfectly good choices
Not for everyone though. Don't agree or even particular feel to strongly about what those deities represent? Your SoL, enjoy suffering for doing nothing wrong except not stroking some ultra powerful manchild's ego.

>>55059503
Not feeling strongly about your god's portfolio isn't grounds to get wall'd

And those 10 common deities manage to represent good, love, beauty, hedonism, growing turnips, justice, the moon, joy, and a dozen other concepts; it's just approaching a Karl Pilkerton sketch when you start saying "hmm yeah, Lliira is the goddess of happiness and all, but I'm just not feeling it" and then proceed to go down the entire list.

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>>55056308
The patrician's path

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>>55056025
>Sell your soul to the Devil
>The Devil pats you on the back and tells you he's proud of you
"Th... Thanks dad, I've always wanted to hear that"

>>55059552
Yes it is. You have to be honest a fervant in your faith to not get wall'd. Just paying a bit of lip service isn't enough. There's a lot more to selecting a deity than "they like X so I guess I'll worship them".

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>>55059153
Kratos' brand of DIY atheism is fine for an evil character

>>55059153
Atheism in D&D is usually the following
>you don't think the gods are worth worshiping
>you don't think the gods are truly divine
>you hold active antipathy towards the concept of deities lording over you
Stuff like that.

Also, keep in mind most fucking people will never get the opportunity to do any of those things. The closest they get to the divine will most likely be an Adept saying his stuff came from X and you'll just have to take his word on it.

>>55059626
No, it isn't.
To be wall'd you have to be either Faithless or False
Being faithless means you either don't worship a god, your god is dead, or your god has specifically rejected accepting your soul
Being false meant you purposefully betrayed your god's teachings in life

Not worshipping your god enough or not caring enough about crops doesn't mean shit unless your god explicitly refuses to accept your soul, which no good-aligned god would ever do to even the most moderately sincere adherent.

>>55059718

No truly good aligned god would allow the wall of the faithless to stay up, but when that one god decided it was sadistic as fucking shit they reeee'd right along with all those evil diabolic one.

I do not understand how someone can read about Faerun gods and the faithless and conclude that they're all pretty much petty assholes and the wall is just a poor writing excuse to try to get players to like the authors shitty Mary Sues.

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>Sell your soul and eternal afterlife to the prince of luck
>Have good luck

>>55056025
5e art is shit.

>>55056308
The Slayers already explained why this wouldn't work.

In the climax of the first season, Lina Inverse has to face a demon lord. She uses her most powerful spell, Dragon Slay/Slave, which is basically fucking Nuke from Final Fantasy

It has absolutely no effect. She then immediately realizes why - Dragon Slay draws upon a demon lord for power - that specific demon lord, actually. "It's like me asking you, to hurry up and help me kill you."

You can't beat a demon with their own power, putz. Can a cleric overthrow their own god with their prayers? Of course not.

>>55059746
That's just because the wall serves some inane cosmologically crucial service (which changes with every author)

It either physically keeps all the fiends from overrunning every plane in existence, or it props up the mechanism of how gods actually derive power from worship, or it keeps everyone from having to look at Kelemvor's spooky ass face or something

The point being that just because they oppose tearing down the horrible wall because doing so would be even more horrible doesn't make them petty asshole mary sues

>>55059626
>There's a lot more to selecting a deity than "they like X so I guess I'll worship them".
There literally isn't as anything besides the will of that deity, everything else is people who worship it fucking around and potentially muddling its message (and potentially frustrating that deity).
>Man the god of "just don't be horrible" sounds awesome!
>...but I don't think I like the colour some of his priests wear
>...and I bet if I don't go to the regular seminars on "how to not be horrible" that the church puts on I will basically be hitler despite not ever actually being horrible
>welp better sell my soul for an eternity of FATAL

>>55059832
>, or it props up the mechanism of how gods actually derive power from worship
This is still pretty fucking selfish.

>>55056025
>Train for a decade as a martial artist.
>Get to outrun most things that fly.
>Get to shrug of drops from outer space.
>Get to pretty much ignore most spells.
>Get to punch through steel.
>Get to kill people by touching them.
>Get immune to poison and dissease.
>Get the abillity to speak with everything.
>Stop aging.
>Stop needing to eat, shit and drink.
>Once you reach level 21 (At least in older editions) you get a form of immortality that doesn't fuck over your soul or rely on outside sources of power.

And most importantly
>Being a specialist at killing or disabling spellcasters in a spellcaster dominated world.

>>55059828
>You can't beat a demon with their own power
then dont use THEIR power

use THEIR power to obtain OTHER power, or powerful relics, or fell knowledge

and then use THAT to defeat the demons

>>55059746
>>55059832
The Wall of Faithless, originally created by Myrkul, functions to keep Faerun mostly free from the ravages of the eternal blood war and serves as a bargaining point with the Infernals and Abyssals. The Infernals come to the wall to barter with souls, offering them freedom from the wall in exchange for servitude. Abyssals just attack it and steal souls. In either case, the Wall fulfills a vital purpose - it keeps the Blood War OUT, and keeps the lower planes distracted with themselves. If the Lower Planes ever STOPPED fighting each other, they'd overwhelm everyone else. Attempts to remove it have been blocked by the other Gods, or Ao himself.

As it is, good prevails because evil is banal and self defeating. THAT is why FR is secretly a grim dark setting.

>>55059899
>The demon doesn't claim or carefully analyze anything you get

You work for the demon. Your very familiar, if you have one, is a spy for it. It's distantly aware every time you draw on it's energies. If you're successful at "flying under the radar" and not letting your patron know what your up to, skol. But generally, demons and devils are far, far smarter than humans and can see a betrayel or con coming from a mile away.

>>55059873
It's about 50/50 since all the gods dying means that all the good aligned afterlives and their innocent, deserving denizens get overrun and devoured by demons, devils, yugoloths, fey, planeshifting abberations, etc. while every person that ever dies then gets to spend eternity hanging around the lobby until getting shoved into a lower plane

>>55059939
>You work for the demon.
what pish

a cleric is effectively using the company credit card, thats why hes accountable

a warlock sucked the mob bosses dick for 10,000,000 dollars- what he does with that money is his business

>>55059500

No soul, no senses, nothing but your ability to think.

>>55059417
Eh, there's wizards who bargain for it or research the knowledge.
You don't need to obey any entity.

>>55059420
Angels can be corrupted, it's rare but it can happen.
Therefore, Devils can be redeemed.

>demons are inherently evil

I hate D&D's cosmology so fucking much. "Let's mash a bunch of Judeo-Christian ideas together with features of the European ancient and classical world."

>>55060201

There's non-evil Outsiders.
The Evil ones are classified as Devils, Demons or Yugoloth.
What's the issue?

>>55060201
So...like medieval europe?

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>>55056025
>Tulpa SO HARD you learn to kill people with it
>summon all the things

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>>55059892
Monks are always the most fun

>>55059892
>cucked to death by wizards, druids, clerics?, and bards

>>55060290
Tulpa?
Pls explain

>>55059828
Don't you tell me what my Ur-Priest can't accomplish! They'll fuck up any God! Name the time, place, and God!

>>55061311

It's a mentally ill tumblr thing

>>55061339
i know what is tulpa
i meant to ask if there's any class that uses tulpas as summmons

>>55061339
/x/ has been trying to fuck their tulpas since before tumblr was a thing...

>>55061404
>>55061355
>>55061339
tulpas exist but are not spiritual i mean
they imagine so strongly and for so much time that their brain begins to make it automatically you know

Somebody explain to me how warlock makes any sense or is a interesting idea most of the time

1. Like the cleric you put all your training into a art that can be taken away at the flip of a switch, unlike the cleric gods dont just smite people who wrong them in any small way or disobey them even a tiny bit
warlocks i suppose can more easily jump ship but then you get your old pact keepers minions after you and that's no fun
2. Like the cleric the warlock has things hes entitled to do, Unlike the cleric (most of the time) they will be horrendous and end up with either evil or crazy acts (though i do agree a GOO's quest could be pretty cool)
3. Warlocks are weak as fuck compared to wizard (spell casting wise) so playing a warlock results in using eldritch blast hundreds of time in the characters life span
4. Seriously what is to stop a demon or devil or fey or GOO or whatever you have a pact with from literally just cutting the fucking power off, since there are literally no written rules about this its GM fiat as to how this can be used and i think its more then reasonable that a fiendish lord or otherworldly god can just stop the power flow
its just a railroading tool at that point that we "should" call on but we dont want to cause its a dick move
Usually when a cleric or paladin looses their powers they fall down into oath breaker or something and it feels like it means something because they built up to disobeying the rules set right in front of them "dont do this because that will anger the rules you obey or the god that gives you power" and then when you ignore those rules and do it anyway for good or for evil you are punished it doesn't feel like a gm fucking you over
i love the ideas behind the class (in some cases) but Jesus Christ if it doesn't feel poorly executed

>>55061631
>4. Seriously what is to stop a demon or devil or fey or GOO or whatever you have a pact with from literally just cutting the fucking power off, since there are literally no written rules about this its GM fiat as to how this can be used and i think its more then reasonable that a fiendish lord or otherworldly god can just stop the power flow
If I'm not mistaken, the actual fluff is that the Patron teaches the Warlock certain arcane secrets that are the true foundation of their powers (e.g., what happens in Faust). But the stuff about there being a contract and them being another Charisma-based caster class (why?) muffles the issue.

>>55059110
Chauntea, comfy goddess of bread and circuses begs to differ.

>>55061663
Oh yeah i fucking forgot about that
that is what 5e does though just like with sorcerer
They cut a lot of spells from non wizards and to make up for the out of combat losses they make your main stat charisma so you can still convince people that you are a good dude while you bathe in baby blood for a demon lord
i guess thats reasonable as well that the warlock is taught secrets to power instead of it just being a pipe line of power that slowly gets bigger and better
A contract is one of those things that i would love to actually make and write out with my players
But like seriously attempting to barter out the rules lawyering ability of a demon/devil lord or a multidimensional being is fucking crazy, So its instead left into the wind on what the actual exacts of the contract are so its more or less just "i give you secret you give me job well done"

>>55061663
>But the stuff about there being a contract and them being another Charisma-based caster class (why?) muffles the issue
This.
Warlock should have been Int based.

>>55061631

1. Clerics in Eberron, for example, don't rely on any god. Their power can't be taken away.
2. You mean things he's supposed to do?
Entitled means he has the right to do them.
How much your Patron interferes with your life is up to the GM, just like the Gods.
3. This is true, Wizard, Sorcerer and Druid are better casters. Warlock is interesting in some other ways.
You can play Warlock to be mechanically powerful and even have a good RP build that works.
4. Your patron can't revoke your magic. Even if you actively work against them.

>>55056025
>Make Warlock PC
>DM never bring up mentor ever
Evil magic scott free

>>55061784
It mostly bothers me because it makes it difficult to play a creepy warlock, as I imagine at least SOME of them ought to be. C'mon, these are the kinds of people who contract with demons. Why are they all so persuasive as a rule?
I have a similar issue with Dexterity representing both agility, gymnastics, and manual dexterity, but that one's baked more into the system so I don't complain about it as much.

>>55061810

Charisma represents a bunch of behaviors, something like Assertiveness and responding to social queues and having compelling body language.
CEOs are smart and charismatic.
Con Artists are usually just charismatic.
Engineers are intelligent.

>>55061858
Faust was defined more by analytical intellect than by presence off character. In fact it took magic to make margareta fall in love with him in the first place.
I'd rather make them Int based and Cha secondary.

>>55061858
I don't see what any of that has to do with the ridiculous fact that 5e does not support warlocks who AREN'T charismatic.

The best good-faith explanation for the way the system does things is that the nature of their deal relies on bargaining with their Patron to get their powers, but I don't see why being able to carefully read a contract with a sometimes-incomprehensible being ought to be exclusively Charisma based, especially if the only way to communicate with whatever Patron they're talking about is virtually impossible without privileged information that can only be accessed by years of research... as represented by a good Intelligence score.

>>55059939
The blood war is a retarded setting concept.

Why should the neutral and 'good' forces not also have infinite armies?

>>55061788
2. yeah i did mean things he is supposed to do
and think about it a demon or devil would teach you arcane secrets only to be like "nah dude just roam the world and throw magic bolts are goblins"
it would on average be like a half a session quest every 2-3 sessions of regular stuff
3. Like i said i really do like warlock flavor wise even if i hate it mechanicly
4. That seems wrong where are you getting this from? because they cant "revoke" it but they can stop giving you more power preventing you from leveling up until you find a new patron

>>55061937
Its retarded because you don't like it? Neither evil being more numerous than good or good being balanced with evil is inherently better, so why the arbitrary change?

>>55061810
Being persuasive doesn't have to due to being a nice guy that everyone wants to help out. You could roleplay it as being so goddamn creepy no one who isn't a powerful caster themselves would dare say no to you. Being persuasive naturally also helps to explain how you were able to convince a powerful being into giving you powers in the first place. I do agree with you in principle. I don't like classes relying on just one or two stats to get the most out of their abilities. What if you want to play a barbarian that relies on clever tactics instead of just her strength? Or a dumb wizard that gets by on raw talent, but wouldn't sit down to study to save his life? You can still play the characters however you if your GM is a cool dude regardless of stats, but having alternative choices within a class would be nice.

>>55061631
>Like the cleric you put all your training into a art that can be taken away at the flip of a switch, unlike the cleric gods dont just smite people who wrong them in any small way or disobey them even a tiny bit
depends on how you do warlocks, you could do them like demon clerics but you dont have to

look at it this way

a wizard is someone who has a bank account full of money through hard work
a sorcerer has their parent money
a druid has the government to fund them
a cleric has the company credit card, and has potentially more money but more restrictions on that money
a warlock is someone who has a credit card from selling his kineys to the Mob- sure, its a risky move- but theres nothing stopping you from using that money to hire people to kill the mob. and its still your account

>>55062064
good version of it fits semi-well
only thing is that the mob probably has like at least like 20 other dudes with credit cards and at least some of them are really subservient and might get "extra money" if the other warlocks turn tail and start betraying the mob

>>55056260
I want to cuddle that smug loli!

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>>55061663
Fun fact: the reason the warlock's fluff description makes it sound like an INT class is because it WAS an INT class during the playtest. It was changed late in development, presumably to bring it closer in line with the 3e warlock.

>>55062103
>only thing is that the mob probably has like at least like 20 other dudes with credit cards and at least some of them are really subservient and might get "extra money" if the other warlocks turn tail and start betraying the mob
which is why if you want to get one up on them you have to invest wisely and get allies- which both gives warlocks a nice end game (usurp satan) and explains why not everyone becomes a warlock

basically leliana

>>55062015
It makes no sense that only the evil flavours of the alignment table for the divine get infinite troops, it is contrived to the extreme and lead to nonsense like the Wall of the Faithless.

>>55062168
I really fail to see how one flavor is any more contrived than the other

>>55062144
Yeah again the warlock is very 2 sided
you could literally decide you stance on your patron by flipping a coin
Heads- i agree with them im a subservient worshiper and do everything im asked in hope of more power and less restrictions
Tails- Im not subservient i disagree with my pact keeper to either a small or large degree, i may be planning to kill them and absorb their power and get my soul back

Apply extra flavor where necessary, this applies to mostly the fiend i do not like the fiend as a warlock choice its the gayest fucking thing and invites players who just do evil shit and actually have a kinda good reason behind it
but i really enjoy the GOO the quest and ideas behind it seem fun as long as you dont do the cringy thing and make communication possible in any sense except horrifying dreams or blood on the wall of your hotel room

>>55062168
>It makes no sense that only the evil flavours of the alignment table for the divine get infinite troops
which are stuck in a self defeating war- it fits thematically i think

>good has finite numbers, but through co-operation and faith holds evil at bay
>evil has infinite numbers, but through treachery and lack of self control engage themselves in a war, making their advantage moot

>>55059939
>You work for the demon
Says who? Just because I'm entered in a contract with them for power doesn't give me any obligation to do their bidding. They already own my soul; I don't owe them anything else.

>>55062228
>Heads- i agree with them im a subservient worshiper and do everything im asked in hope of more power and less restrictions
sounds more like a cleric/cultist at that point

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>he sold his soul to a devil
>falling for the infernal power meme
>not giving your soul to a lord or lady of the fey and becoming their agent on the mortal plane
>wanting to spend eternity in damnation rather than comfy meadows

Devilets, when will they learn

>>55057683
>sell your soul to nature
>get wood

>>55062239
>sold your soul
>in exchange they give you the first level of warlock
>"but i gave you my soul where is all my power"
>demon shits him self laughing
A single soul is not worth much its really just a tacked on thing
However a man on the ground while the demon is on the lower planes is worth way more to him then just a soul
so thats how you gain levels you do some quest for the demon every now and agian and in exchange he leads you to magical items and gives you more arcane secrets

>>55062285
>in exchange they give you the first level of warlock
it more like
>sell your soul
>in exchange get given the entire warlock manual- reading that shit is on you

>>55062239
Yes, I'm sure a demon would never lower itself to revealing some binding fine-print clause in the contract, or claiming the soul was just the first installment, or squeezing your soul like a lemon until you do whatever it wants. That would be just unpolite.

>Sell your soul to an angel
>Go to heaven

>>55062337
Unless the offer was a test of character to see if you would sell your soul for a shortcut or if you would be willing to undergo the harder (but correct) path of traditional worship over your lifetime which gets you into heaven. You failed by the by.

>>55062285
>A single soul is not worth much
depends whos soul

some random schumck? sure
a man who can tip the scales of the world? not so much

its an investment on the demons part- let the warlock do what they want, no need to pressure them and give your hand away- instead every now and then just gently nudge them in a direction "did you know my rival the demon lord xargagdgsgs has a cult in city XYZ? the cult that you want to exterminate?"

its the equivalent of funding rebels on the demons part, its unlikely that it will end up an issue for it- but it can easily be used to its advantage against its rivals

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>>55062271
>Being a feygot
No way

>>55062271
>tfw you will never be glorious, beautiful feypact master race

>>55062271
>making a contract with irrational entities
>getting fucked over by your patrons mood swings
>becoming a fucking leaf

with demons you know what you get- you sold your soul, and occasionally might have to kill some innocents or something, but you cant trust you patrons self interest to get the best of him- no one knows what the fey will do next, not even said fey

>>55062453
>not making contracts with glorious GOO's
>not wanting to contribute your little bit to the thousand year plan of this extra dimensional god
>not wanting to stash a book of a former cult of the GOO in a library so a worshiper during that time can find it and preform a ritual in it

>Not willingly entering the service of some klepto yugoloth who just wants some murderhobo to go grab him random items sometimes so he can put it in his wall

>>55062582
Fey=/=GOO's

GOO's are understandable- its the eldritch truth an all, the glorious plan to transcend this plane of existence

Fey are just dicks for the sake of it

>barter your soul to patron of your choosing; become warlock
>find other schmucks who made the same sort of deal with the same patron
>unionize
Warlocks of the world, unite!

>>55062657
>the union collapses under chronic backstabbing as it turns out people who will sell their soul for power will gladly stab someone in the back for more

Binder / warlock master race- search out the secrets of the dark things in the world, the lost the forgotten, the small gods left without worship.

Offer them a chance to return to the world, to feel, to live once more, and all that it will cost them is power.

>>55062758
This, except with the spirits of the dead, was how I played a neutral good death cleric a while back.

I mean, typically the deals come down to:

* Against their will, the PC has fallen into circumstances in which their only escape is a deal with the devil (in which case a cantrip is only a nice concession)
* It's not against their will and the character would have worshiped the devil regardless.

>>55056025
>Make living selling soles to devil
>Trade the catnip for some mediocre magical scrolls
>It starts asking for pictures of my feet
>Jump towns and try to find work at a far off kingdom
>Land minor job in palace.
>"M'liege, the princess would like to see your soles."

>>55062721
>a byzantine code of laws is enforced by a mafia-esque warlock judiciary to systematically regulate/exploit the intra-pact interactions

>>55062377
>An Angel tricking people into selling their souls so they burn in hell forever
Hmm

>>55062941
>warlocks start forming larger shadow syndicates that seek to limit and monopolize fell magic
>demon lords notice decrease in souls as foolish pacts are snuffed out before being formed and collecting from syndicates becomes harded
>fuel rival syndicates to wage a proxy war
>all out warlock war wages in the shadows, as syndicates and demon lords engage in proxy warfare

>>55062974
Angels are merely agents of (lawful) good god(s)/goddess(es). If the boss says to test your faith by offering a shortcut that you should know better than to take then the angel is going to get it done. You didn't get a soul just to sell it on ebay even if the buyer is a verified user. Wouldn't be the meanest thing an angel has done either.

>>55063037
>Lawful Good gods tricking people into selling their souls so they burn in hell forever
HMM

>>55063058
>lawful good gods nuking countries because of one asshole
>lawful good gods dishing out infinite punishment for finite crimes/sins
>lawful good gods letting people suffer to test their faith
HMM

>>55062941
>>55062991
>patrons start clashing in whatever tenebrous colon of a nether-dimension they inhabit
>shit's getting real; tensions are amping up
>the patrons start mobilizing their mortal contractors against each other
>suddenly each breed of warlock has banded together and is fighting a brutal crusade against all other sorts of warlocks in a massive free-for-all deathmatch

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>>55056025
I see nothing wrong with this

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>>55058269
For profit baby, why else?

>>55063124
>mortal version of the blood war happens
>local paladin orders confused as to what to do- since if they interfere the winning side, fueled by the excessive power the respective patrons invested in them may be unstoppable

>>55056025
eldritch blast is the single strongest range attack in the game outside of top level spells and minmaxed crossbow feat builds, especially after the invocations that buff it, and the majority of the patreons are either not actually evil and/or are something that doesn't actually require you to do anything

>>55062285
>>55062313
>>55059899
This is another one of those "depends on the setting/edition of the class or character option" situations, but as I recall a Warlock gets an investment of arcane power to cultivate and grow on their own. The entity which they made the contract gets what was in the contract, so unless there's stipulations for additional dickery later there's no mechanical nor in-universe reason for why a Warlock wouldn't be able to kill the entity that it made the deal with for power in the first place so long as they had advanced in their use of said power sufficiently to overwhelm or out-play their former patron.

If it was a Paladin type situation where they can be denied class features for lack of proper conduct, or a Cleric whose spells come on a daily vancian basis then there's some merit to this concern sure, but Warlocks don't deal with that nonsense. They're essentially the magical equivalent of Fighters; simple, not very versitile but plenty of kick behind their stuff once they get it up and running to be useful. Hone that blade enough, make the hammer heavy enough, and it'll break the machine that tooled it in the first place.

Or you could just make deals with things that don't want to consume your soul or outright hate your existence in the first place but hey that's just me being a wimp.

>>55056025
>not playing a tiefling fiendlock where your patron is your dad

It's like you don't want to be the least edgy use of that race/class combo.

>>55063085
Sounds like Dragonlance to me.

>>55063420
>your father cuts you off because you dont call
>have to do evil things or he wont give you your allowance
>have to make sure to not embarrass him in front of the other demons

>>55063420
>not your mom
>not having your patron fuss over you and call you via arcane ritual on a regular basis to make sure you're eating properly

>>55056025
Eldritch blast+agonizing blast=...pretty good

>>55056306
What's the best cantrip? Asking for a friend...

>>55063628
Shillelagh

>>55061808
Literally this.

It's like the demon/devil is that dad whom is always working, and when he is home he's still working and can't take time to play catch with you. But he still wants you to love him so he gives you cool stuff. Maybe that's the only way he knows how to show affection.

What happens if I sell my soul to many devils (without them knowing about each other)?

>>55063267
11/10

>>55064095
except this makes no sense
a demon/devil has many agents on the top side some with stronger connections some with weaker sure a time of silence where you get no quest or anything from your pact keeper is to be expected but the entire length of the pact?
that is unrealistic my dude i can understand in a game of like 5+ people there is not much time to focus on the warlocks sugar daddy but in most other cases its kinda crazy
its reasonable to say "a demon lord cant just send a dream to all of his followers it takes to much time and power that he doesn't have at this moment" sure ill believe you
But why cant he send a low level demon with a ring of invis or some shit or just send 1 dream to his most powerful follower who then sends easier messages to the lesser followers

>>55063469
>Demon mom wants you to bring that nice girl you've been seeing over for dinner

>Not having your Patron also be your deity for free Cleric powers
Step it up

>>55064104
This shit is going to devil court to find out who the proper owner of your soul is, probably with devil lawyers referencing precedents like Moloch v. The Lower Planes or some shit.

>>55064298
Speaking of this flavor wise what is the actual difference with warlocks and clerics?

Clerics put them selves into a life of servitude and practice the religion of what they worship
But im pretty sure warlocks do the same and warlocks also do a lot of the same things as clerics

Infact i even run evil clerics and warlocks almost exactly the same just with more mysticism behind the warlock

i guess the difference is with clerics you dont "technically" sell your soul but if you are lawfully evil and worshiping asmodeus whether or not you are a cleric of warlock doesn't change the fact you are going to the nine hells

>>55064364
I believe the core difference is that clerics are expected to get their powers from faith and worship without much in the way of alternatives. A warlock can do the same, but it isn't a requirement (unless it is specifically stated in the pact I guess). They just need to find a powerful being dumb enough to trust a PC enough to give them fun powers to play with. The cleric is blessed with powers for their faith in god/ideology/love/etc. A warlock earns their powers, or is given powers to be a more useful pawn.

>>55064416
so what you are saying to me is
Fiendish warlock
and a evil cleric
are basically the same fucking thing?
Cause thats how im interpreting it, evil gods give the cleric more power so it can further its goals more easily (assuming the cleric can be trusted and doesn't try to secret away power) the god can keep giving it more and more until it reaches arch cleric status
its the same for warlock

>>55064251
So then you're saying it does still make a little sense, but it depends on the workload of the DM, as well as how much he feels like involving dieties and pacts and and what not. I would love if my DM gave me some shit to do with my pact, but sometimes its more like I'm calling and leaving voicemails to see if he still needs me for something, in which case I may or may not get some dream or minor info in return.

>>55064466
yeah this is one of the things that makes me enjoy having only 1-2 players is you get to focus on little stuff like this
basically the way id say to balance it out in a average group of 3-5 people is every 3-5 sessions the warlock gets a dream or a man shows up at his door in robes with a letter or there is writing in blood on his wall or however you want to deliver the quest
and then they go on a quest for about half a session something light so they still have some time to do other stuff and make the warlocks patron happy and probably get some cool stuff for the warlock and some other people

>>55064364
They can be.
One of the examples in the PHB is that Warlocks can serve their Patrons like a Cleric
But it also says the most common relationship between Warlock and Patron is the Patron teaching the Warlock like an apprentice

All memeing aside, Warlocks don't actually sell their souls to their patrons, they just work for them.

>>55064443
The evil cleric has to worship evil dude god to get his powers. There are no alternatives, but faith and belief. If the cleric tries to argue out a deal then the best case scenario the evil god finds his petty desires amusing and grants it to him. Otherwise he gets shitted on for daring to talk back to his god. A warlock doesn't have to believe in anything to get his powers. He just needs to be able to make a deal with a powerful being. He can be an atheist and think evil god dude is just an alien with an ego and still get powers from him if he offers something that evil god dude wants. Clerics require faith. Warlocks require what their side of the deal requires of them. The differences can be subtle and pointless if you want to roleplay it that way, but they can also be extremely different as well.

>>55064530
hmm good outlook on it man good to see a new side of it
i do like the idea of a wizardly type of warlock (if only full spell caster warlocks were fun or powerful ) who made a strict pact with either a GOO or a fiend and now preforms rituals that frankly bore him but gets the big guy upstairs blood pumping so he does them anyway

>>55064364
It's mostly a matter of theme. The two classes have completely different features and spells, representing different types of character. Clerics are priests and healers, warlocks are dabblers in dark and destructive magic. To be honest the stuff about pacts is almost beside the point, some warlocks don't even have real pacts. Likewise you can have clerics who don't even worship a god, as long as they believe in *something*.

>>55063469
>asking the DM to roleplay as your demonic mother
hum

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>>55057621
>not 400mph

You got ripped off, senpai.

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>>55064579
>>55064530
I've always liked the idea of a Fey Warlock who got his or her powers from a Fey who just chose a random person to be a hero because he/she thought it'd be hilarious.

Since the Feywild is a place defined by narrative conventions, the idea of a Fey who just goes through all the motions of a typical fairy tail just to fuck with their Chosen One.

>Reach level 3, become Bladelock
>Feypatron appears and grants you the mystical Sword of Songs
>Use it to liberate the people from the zombie king even though you're just some fucking peasant girl because the Lady of Autumn Leaves wanted a soap opera.

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>>55059781
why would you ever need anything else?

>>55064952
This is a great idea and fits in with the default lore as far as I know. Especially if your DM gets on board. Play it as the your Fey patron watching your character adventure around and every time they feel like the pace is getting too slow they throw a challenge at you copied straight from a fairy tale the patron happens to have just finished reading earlier.

>>55065047
My idea is sort of like that, like the Fey is watching a scrying orb like its TV while sitting on their couch, autistically obsessing over their new favorite show.

Whether the Fey patron would intentionally try and up the ante I don't know, but just the idea of some normal person thinking they're chosen to be a hero and its all just for entertainment.

>>55056351
They trick you, that's the whole idea. In most settings with demons and soul deals good souls are worth a lot more than evil so while they certainly won't say no to all those average evil guys looking for short-sighted power the real prize is ticking, forcing good people.

They wait till you're most in need and make you an offer you can't refuse or even that doesn't necessarily seem like a "deal" till it's too late.

>>55064104
John pls.

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So how about skipping all these pacts with devils, demons, fey, deities, voices-beyond-the-stars, etc. that are basically trapped shortcuts and just put on the work and reap the benefits on your own?

>>55065236
You mean like how Warlock canonically works in 5e because Warlock Pacts are literally your patron teaching you and not your patron giving you powers?

>>55065236
Warlock players are faggots.

>>55059153
So you're not really familiar with the actual atheist groups that have been around in d&d for multiple editions so in your ignorance it doesn't make sense to you.
They generally view the gods as powerful beings but not "true gods".
Sure real life magic powers from a "god" can't be ignored but how about the other gods with conflicting accounts of how the world came to be and works? How about how gods can die in d&d? How about the many other powerful entities that can grant similar powers?

>>55059153
>people don't want to be lorded over by and serve the whims of a bunch of arrogant faggots
Huh.

>>55065275
All the members of these atheist groups, which I'm not convinced exist, get to enjoy being wall'd for eternity as a result of their absolutely autistic viewpoint

>>55059417
t. newfag unfamiliar with d&d lore
You don't need orcus or any demon's or evil god's help or knowledge to become a lich, that's just a con they pull to cuck stupid mages out of their souls and you fell for it.
There are neutral and good liches and even evil liches that were smart enough not throw away their soul unnecessarily.

>>55060168
>No soul, no senses, nothing but your ability to think.
This has never been the case and is contradicted by multiple sources.

>>55065352
>>55065275
Actually their position isn't autistic, its the truth. Why SHOULD you worship what amounts to powerful aliens just because they say so?

Especially when they all disagree with each other on everything and often exhibit all the follies of mortals?

>>55065386
Because the Wall exists?

>>55065409
>Do what we say or we'll hurt you

Really showing that Good alignment jackhole. There's a reason that concept only exists in one setting.

>>55057514
It's closer to being able to shot the beer bottles off the fence.

>>55065236
Well, that sort of assumes that these things really ARE just shortcuts to things you can find on your own -- which really isn't a guarantee. This is MAGIC we're talking about. Who says for sure that literally everything can be understood via experimentation? Wizards, that's who. But who says they're right for sure, besides other wizards?

>>55065504
I don't see how it's the gods' fault when you foolishly ignore a cosmological constant and then get hurt because of it

Would the gods' be at fault if you were to, say, jump off a tower and die because they didn't turn off gravity? They're both fundamental forces of the universe within the setting and they're not going to just turn it off because you're upset about it

>>55059656
Atheism is "There are no gods" wanting to kill something means you believe its a thing.

>>55063420
I'm playing as a yuan-ti GOOlock whose patron is their dad, one guess is to who that is.

>>55056025
>Not selling your soul to a succubus to get to fuck her daily.

>>55065609
The Wall of the Faithless isn't a cosmological constant, its something they did.

If it was a constant it'd be like that everywhere in the multiverse, which it clearly isn't. Its only the gods of the FR who are this cruel.

>>55065627
You can believe it's a thing without believing it's a god. For example, is it a god if man can kill it? If no, then one must believe they are not gods before you set out to kill them, and then in killing them you prove they were not a god.

>>55065627
Nice try, Zeus.

>>55056025
As long as the cantrip is Prestidigitation it's worth considering.

>>55061952
>4. That seems wrong where are you getting this from? because they cant "revoke" it but they can stop giving you more power preventing you from leveling up until you find a new patron
Not them but where are YOU getting your assumptions from?
Talking d&d, classes like paladins and clerics and wu-jen actually have rules(in some editions/settings) for losing their powers and needing to atone, there's even a fucking "atonement" spell. Even some classes like monks and some prestige classes have some rules that are more about behavior/philosophy than magic but can prevent class progression if broken and must be atoned for. Nothing like that has ever been the case either in rules or fluff for warlocks.
Maybe you just started with a newer edition where that wasn't a thing so you didn't know.
Sure you can say "oh the gm can pull gm fiat and say the demon/fey/incomprehensible farspawn activates the contract clause that was written in magic invisible ink so you lose your powers!" but they could likewise dm fiat a wizard being cut off from magic and unable to access any spells.
"Whatever asspull gm fiat could possibly be conceived" should not be the standard.

Beyond d&d it's also just a common interpretation in media depictions of selling souls for power that it's a pretty great no-strings attached seeming deal while you're alive, that's the whole appeal. The comeuppance is when your time is up and you realize that nothing you achieved with your power is worth what's facing you. You can certainly find examples of demons more directly controlling subjects but they're less common because it misses the whole point of the seductive corruption of evil. That's why direct possession/unwilling control is usually directed towards semi-innocent victims.

Unless the warlock is desperate they shouldn't have to sell their soul for the pact in the first place. Fae don't want that shit in the first place, and Starpacts will just have you do seemingly innocent actions that will only have their consequences fully realized thousands of years in the future when the GOO finally arrives.

Pact conditions that don't involve selling your soul right off the bat
>>It's a gamble with the entity where if you succeed you get off scott free, but if you fail they get your soul or eternal service in the feywilds.
>>Upon the completion of your quest/fulfillment of revenge/whatever, you must serve X years in service for every year you used the pact's powers
>>OOTS-style, where in exchange for power you forfeit control of your body for a predetermined amount of time at a point in the future. The level 1 warlock is given the power to save his town, but when he's level 20 they might call in the debt and try to prevent him from saving the world.
>>You must serve as a soldier in the Blood War upon death for X amount of time
>>Spawn-style, where in exchange for power you need to lead the armies of hell against heaven
>>You must amuse or surprise your Fae patron to earn your powers. This is no easy task, as surprising someone that has lived longer than men have walked upright is quite the feat.
>>Have to weaken the bounds of reality so your tentacled monstrosity of a patron can evebtually break through its prison Hellboy style

>>55066627
in 5e the flavor for one of the warlock patreons (graat old one) explicitly says that it can be a situation where you learned Things Man Is Not Meant To Know while culthulu doesn't even realize you exist or are drawing power from it somehow, so theres both a mechanic and fluff reason to believe that there's no penalty to warlocking

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>find ancient unspeakable evil lying at the bottom of a lost sunken city
>get the ability to summon a greatsword at will

>>55065352
>which I'm not convinced exist
Then you're a newfag unfamiliar with d&d lore.
>everything that triggers me is le autsim meme
wew that projecting

>>55065825
>muh autistic "facts"

The Wall of the Faithless being an absolutely abhorrent creation and the conflict between mortals who see it as despicable and the gods-both cosmoligcally Good and Evil- that defend its existence was the entire point of the Mask of these Betrayer's campaign.

If you like Obsidian's games and writing you should absolutely check it out, it's one of the best examples of high level D&D done right. It's a shame that WOTC pussied out and said no to letting the player fully dismantle the Wall, although Kaelyn's good ending is at least a step in the right direction.

Similar to KOTOR and the Force, MOTB brings up the fact that cosmological Good and Evil are not the same thing as personal morality and right/wrong. Also, you get to experience firsthand how much of a colosssal asshole Myrkul was firsthand.

>>55065386
You might not worship them, but you still ought to venerate them. Creators or not, they're still immensely powerful beings who govern aspects of reality. Why not award them the honor and respect that station is due?

>>55067312
Most Gods depending on the pantheon were simply born powerful, they didn't actually do anything to earn or "deserve" the power and influence they wield. Mortals that have ascended and mantled as gods themselves are by far the minority. They're not venerated universally for the same reason everyone isn't a dragon or djinn worshipper, despite the power those creatures wield.

In my experience there's always at least one player that wants to go full "NO GODS, NO MASTERS, JUST MEN" and tear down the setting's divine hierarchy no matter how seemingly benevolent, which makes for a good longterm character goal if nothing else.

>becoming a powerful arch-mage just gives you a cantrip of your making and also turns you into a psuedo-elf
NGR is pretty weird

>>55067367
They're kind of like kings in that regard, though. Except that their kingdom is "the sun" or "the dead" or "traveling." There's always someone who's going to want to tear down the social structure just to watch it burn, but most people still bow when the carriage passes.

>>55065736
>Implying your soul is worth infinite fucks

Think that highly of yourself huh?

>>55067548
They probably just set you up with an illusion.

>>55067548
Since demons are immortal don't they outnumber people?

>>55065099
On occasions the fey patron will demand some pretty silly things. I mean, what is 'snow gathered from the first snowfall of the season', 'milk gained from a non-pregnant cow' and 'some kind of bean from the southern continent' going to do for her?

its what she needs to make her bucket of chocolate ice cream to eat while watching you

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>tfw I burn the wizard's spellbook to ash and use my charisma to convince the warlock's patron to drop his ass
Nerds and sellouts don't deserve magic.

>>55065627

Jesus christ.

This has to be a bait opinion at this point.

There's no way people still actually believe that's how atheism works, is there?

>>55068730
Then the Sorceror eats you, and reigns supreme as the only Spellcaster left since the Cleric left long ago after recognising how awful and doomed the party is

>>55056025
>implying I sold my soul
>implying my dad didn't leave my mom for a succ
>implying my stepmom isn't just trying to buy my love with gifts of magic

>>55056025
guess what, a single human soul might has be a monopoly dollar.

>>55068730
Burning spellbook achieves nothing but getting wizard stuck with one set of spells. He can still long rest, get the same set he prepared previously and kick your ass.

>>55068763
He's pointing out the difference between atheism and deicide.

>>55071042
>the demon doesn't take your soul
>instead it makes you take your child's favorite toy away from them while they're playing with it.
>it demands the watch your father gave you before he passed
>in exhange for power, all you have to give up is the memory of your mother's face

>>55056025
>Selling your soul to a Devil.
>Not making a Pact with a cute fae.
It's like you don't want to get power from your waifu.

>>55059828
"Guys, I'll have to sit this one out, would you please handle it? The beer is on me."

>>55071308
She actually considers it, but ultimately does not sit this one out, but uses power of an even more powerful entity - the Lord of the Nightmares, to kill the demon.

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>>55068730
>Nerds and sellouts don't deserve magic.
The first Guild Wars didn't only have an interesting system but also an interesting lore (which they betrayed in the second game) with some interesting twists on magic. In the game the two most common ways of shutting down a caster were either by using a domination magic Mesmer to fight magic with frustrating magic, or by using a hammer Warrior. Now warriors were traditionally the party tanks but they were also the party bully. Pic related is a Warrior elite skill (only carry 1 at a time) called Skull Crack which interrupts the casting of a spell and dazes the caster for a period of time, and quite literally just consists of punching the caster in the face really hard. So, in Tyria you can study hard and quest the world over looking for insights into magic, but at the end of the day some muscle bound jerk with a hammer can just shove you in a locker and steal your lunch money.

>>55071107
I would love to see some deviations from the norm in Infernal Deals as much as I can appreciate tradition and the value of a soul :
>Must miss every family funeral.
>Frequently make, but always break promises you make to your child(ren)
>Never receive more than 5% of the loot, no matter how big or small your party is.
>Sell your family heirlooms/a family member's most treasured possession/your child's favourite toy for betting money. And lose.
>Steal from the poor, but never the rich
>Kill, cook and sell a poverty-stricken family's only pet/animalmoneysource.
>Never complain about anything, ever.
>Never say no to any request, plea or question.

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>>55062657
>>55062721
>>55062941
>>55062991
>>55063124
>>55063271

awarded best in thread. might steal for upcoming campaign.

>Not summoning a demon just for sake of capturing him and tormenting him with cross, holy water and several hours long chant audio records.

>>55071942
I'd love to see a devil whose only price for their Warlock was specific acts of petty cruelty. Once or twice a level, they'd have one specific demand that must be carried out without question. Steal or break a child's toy, mock a young woman's act of bravery, sneer at a man's gratitude. Always minor things, more mean than actually evil.

Then in the end, it reveals that each of those acts was carefully designed to tip someone away from becoming a hero. That child? Would have grown up to be a powerful cleric, but now never quite finds that spark of faith. The defiant young woman? She'd be a Paladin one day, but now she lacks the courage. The grateful man? He won't encourage his children to follow in your footsteps, and the world just lost a mighty warrior and powerful wizard. Dozens of points of light extinguished before they'd ever had a chance to shine.

>>55072496
I'm obligated to tell you that is the dumbest idea I've ever heard.

>>55072519
you're objectively wrong

>>55072496
That would be amazing, but terribly hard to pull off.
You'd need a good player for it too.

Would it be better on a per level basis for more power, or every couple of sessions for continued power?

>>55072519
Well, there goes my inspiration. Good job, Warlock...

>>55072677
Either/or. I'm thinking tit for tat - "every time you want me to teach you something new you need to do something for me first." But it could easily be just a periodic thing, like every time they have a session while they're in town.

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>>55056025
>Class based on evil spellcasters who tended to the martial side in oneshot fantasy books, looking kind of red Ogreish in many books

>Is instead a trade where you replace your soul with the raw energies that make up the rough desccription of a choice outsider in the Aytypical D&D setting with a font of unstable energy as a replacement.
>Said energy through discipline and effort can be slowly manipulated to become a pseudo-outsider, using practiced manifestations of what would come to such beings naturally as your own versatile system of trained disciplines that even your patron is not capable of
>negative is that if this isn't done, you're pretty much due to whatever fate your patron deems unless you make it to Devil/Demonhood in the most generic of cases

>Somehow, the constant fuckery with this has not resulted in noticable external mutation.
This is the one thing I fucking hate about Warlocks, the fact that as you level, you don't take into account just how much in common you have with an outsider at the power you've quired through the manipulations of these granted energies.

No long dirty fingernails, increased age appearance, taint, or anything that makes you look like this, like- can I play as that Classic Children's fantasy novel tier Warlock, the one with the Red Skin and goofy classic 80's 90's Childrens film/photomodelrealism makeup department esque spellcaster dude, who makes up the stereotype, evil Old wizard/sorceror/Warlock dude.

You'll probably know what I'm on about as if you've taken in a lot of fantasy, you'll have seen it countless times, when are we gonna get options for Warlocks that let you become the nasty- clearly soul his soul to something foul sort of Warlock that has it's slow distancing from it's fellow man made apparent?

>>55072715
Or maybe both?

Every level gained just adds yet another minor/petty thing to the to-do list.
Maybe changing it up every once in a while with a specific thing like you mentioned?

>>55060810
Monks are easily the mage killers of the setting. Not sure how you would cuck them.

>>55063352
>Make a deal with the devil
>You turn out to have far more latent power than he expected
>Once he opens the channel to power with you, he finds your tapping into far more than he expected
>He also finds out he can't stop the flow of energy, so once the pact was made you're using his power even if he doesn't want you to
>due to the pact agreements, he can't go kill you himself, so he has other agents trying to take care of you
>When/if you finally kill him, you completely absorb his power and become a powerful devil lord in his place

>>55059828
You don't get powers streamed to you by your patron. Once the pact is sealed, your warlock potential is "unlocked" and you can use it however you wish. Your power cannot be revoked by your patron unless they kill you. They cannot halt your growth in the warlock class either.

>>55061903
>>55061932
This kind of shit is why I often let a lot of classes switch out their main ability score for another. Rangers and Warlocks can both do Int, for the acquisition of their various skills through careful study.

>>55072778
Depends on the edition.

In 3.PF for example, if the Monk is up against any Wizard as optimized as they are, then the Monk is simply fucked and there's nothing he can do about it.

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>>55060290
Isn't that just called a summoner?

>>55065736
>implying a succubus is powerful enough to create a warlock

That's like trying to sell your soul to a tiger.

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>>55064104

>>55067311
>It's a shame that WOTC pussied out and said no to letting the player fully dismantle the Wall
Actually, it wasn't WotC's fault in this incident. Obsidian had a planned "Destroy the Wall" ending, but decided to scrap it without even checking with Wizards because they assumed it would just get turned down.

>>55073194
That was a legally binding contract!

>>55071716
Pretty hard to cast shit with your brain hemorrhaging yo

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>>55072842

>>55073146
No one plays those old ass editions anymore

Get with the times.

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>>55074373
>No one plays those old ass editions
>No one plays Pathfinder anymore

As much as I wish this were true, it's not. Far from it in fact.

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Binders Represent!

>>55065255

Could just reflavor it.

It's only cannon if you're playing in Faggot Realms.

>>55064989
Was his stand even good luck? I thought it just pointed shit out for him.

>>55074928

Yeah it literally just cheered him on, it didn't have any actual powers, it's the weakest stand.

>>55056657

Depends on setting. If magic is an infinite wellspring for Satan to draw upon, then he will never have a cantrip shortage.

>>55062941
>the Amdusian Contractor Union has a falling out over a legal matter
>the resulting conflict goes down in history as the Twenty-Fourth Pactlaw War, or as the Amdusians refer to it, the Third War of the Borrichius Amendment

>>55068036
Yes. But they fuck over each other even more than they fuck over people.

Demon princes and their servants who get to interact with material plane are a small minority in a sea of wars going on in the Abyss. They are like small islands of stability.

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>>55064952
>>55065047
>>55065099
Another idea for a Warlock I've had is to basically b early Exodus Moses. Be a chosen of a single Vestige to be its prophet and restore it to prominence.

>"I am Obscurus, the god of [remote ancestor] the god of [even older remote ancestor], the god of your fathers."

And basically clash with the normal religious leaders in the setting trying to bring back this abandoned deity that only seems to talk to me.

>Sell your soul to a guild of failed and washed-up adventurers
>Gain access to the combined latent power of everyone... but have to share it with them
>Through either conventional means or a magic hivemind, set up a power-sharing schedule so that everyone gets their time in the limelight (or something of equal value)

>>55076909
>Would you be interested in buying into a magical timeshare?

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>>55065736
>a succubus becomes more powerful through having sex
>a warlock becomes more powerful through honing their powers and the inherent power of their patron
>with a succubus as a patron every time you fuck it you will be empowering your patron (and possibly honing your powers), which will empower yourself, which will empower your patron, which will empower yourself... etc
Just imagine what could happen if that succubus became the patron of a group, or gang if you will, of warlocks.

>>55056025
>Sell your soul to a dragon
>He takes away your existence and makes everyone forget you and unable to remember you

>>55056025
You dont have to sell your soul. It could be something like a vigin sacrifice, or finding a bound djinn lamp. Tons of other powerful pacts & bargains that dont include selling your afterlife to getting buttfucked by a pitchfork

>>55061355
Only Pathfinder has something like that, the Summoner class. Of course its metally damaged people who play Pathfinder so they probably try to fuck their summons...

>>55079045
>probably try to fuck their summons
If it's part of your psyche, isn't that just really complicated masturbation?

>>55076716
Read Jig the Dragonslayer. Its got a decent story like that.

>>55079069
Its tumblr bullshit. Everything they do is self gratifying & masturbatory, why would it be any different?

>>55079250
>it's tumblr bullshit
umm, sorry sweetie :)
>>>/mlp/

>>55059828
That's setting-specific. But that makes you more like a cleric than a warlock. Normally, if you make a warlock pact you get your powers and they're yours now until whatever time the contract says they're not (usually when you die).

>>55056025
>surgically add 8 more souls to your body

>>55061339
No it isn't. It's a buddhist thing for meditating on the nature of consciousness that, if you fuck it up, turns into a mental illness (identity dissociative disorder). Folks on /mlp/ and (later) /x/ may tend to intentionally fuck it up in order to give themselves imaginary waifus. Tumblr was never involved in this.

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All of this and not a single mention of the Avowed?

>>55062271
I dunno, Dresden didn't seem happy with it.

>>55062613
>GOO's are understandable
Not if you're even remotely sane.

I'd like to remind you all that in 5e your patron doesn't even have to be aware of you, which is why you can have a pact of Cthulhu and other dreadful things.

>>55079466
>Pathfinder
I wonder fucking why.

>>55079317
Okay, sorry ill be more specific.
It is bullshit dreamt by people who after significant time online, & with a withdraw from outer societal norms, has created around themselves a false normalcy brought on by only interacting with those that accept them & their deviancy & in doing so become tolerant of other people's deviancy. This false sense of a new "normal" allows them get offended when others call them out on their deviancies.

This covers all tumblr, mlp, anime waifu body pillow owning, tulpa fucking, etc. bullshit.

I must said tumblr bullshit because tumblr is the most transparent example, but you can see this happen in any reclusive group of friends to large social trends.

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>>55060290

>>55079659
>killer 7
underrated post

>>55071078
>Burning spellbook achieves nothing but getting wizard stuck with one set of spells. He can still long rest, get the same set he prepared previously
Truly, newer editions were a mistake.

>>55074779
>could just reflavor it to suit my shitty argument for why they suck and wizards are better
Sure, and you could just stop gargling cocks for a second.

>>55063450
>>55063469
>you have to attend family dinners or else you aren't getting your demon powers back

>>55082722
Play a fallen aasimar paladin/warlock/bard

You mom is a total tiger mom from hell (literally a rakshasa or something) who pushes you to come to important demon events & always do your best. She expects you to murder & politic your way into being the king of hell, anything less is a bitter slap in the face of all the hard work she does for you, guilt tripping you with "Don't you love your mother?" & other such phrases. Your father wants you to be a shinning example of goodness & a shepard of humanity, casting back the darkness of the world. He expects you to someday lead the righteous Order of the Broken Sword, a legendary paladin order. If you don't he won't be angry. He'll just be "disappointed".

Personally though, you just want to be a musician & be famous & get cute girls.

>>55056025

You've posed this question wrong. It's, sell your soul to get magic, which for some people is the only way they are going to get any. You have to be born a sorcerer so if you didn't have a really kinky ancestor and win the genetic lottery you can't be one. It takes connections to be a wizard so if you don't have the resources and connections to get yourself into a wizards college you can't become a wizard. By comparison anyone can sell their soul for forbidden knowledge and thereby become a caster. It's basically just that normal people who don't have the right breeding and don't have the money or connections, can either do manual labor or sell their souls to try and advance in the world. Kinda like real life really.

>>55082984
true dis.

>>55082984
Bourgeoisie Wizards in a mageocracy having to stop a socialist revolution when a rebel named "Marks" a Goolock Pact of the Tome (the tome is his Socialist Manifesto) leads others to make pacts, there by seizing the means of spell production & overthrowing them, yet dooming the common man to loose his soul to the elder god of Communism (everyone is equally worthless & everyones efforts are futile)

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Why are warlocks not the WIS arcane spellcaster? Sorcerers already cover CHA.

>>55083483
Wise people dont make shitty decisions. Personally i feel like your patron should determine your casting stat. Wis for Goo, Int for Fiend, Cha for Ancient, etc.

>>55056025
He didn't expect somebody to actually take the first offer you moron!

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>>55083483
If they were wise they would not be in this situation. Also thier patron are deities of trickery.
>>55065736
Boy you need to be stronk and have at least 55 hp just to guarantee you will survive a single fuck fromna succubus.
And these are the most debauch entities known.

>>55056025
>Be powerful Paladin
>Sell soul to a devil in exchange for freeing souls who have bargained with it before
>Team up with said sold soul to double team devil in both realms and PURGE
>Reunite
>Repeat
>Free everyone

>>55075149
actually, its believed the stand's power is that of granting his user greater resolve and willpower, therefore making it not the most weakest stand

>>55083571
Or it was from the Mystery Box option.

>>55062337
>Sell your soul to an angel
>Go to a higher plane of existence
>slowly disappear and be absorbed by the plane

vs

>Sell your soul to the devil
>Go to 9 hells
>become an immortal devil

>>55084599
>>Sell soul to a devil in exchange for freeing souls who have bargained with it before
Why would a devil agree to barter several souls in exchange for just one? The numbers don't check out.
>>Team up with said sold soul to double team devil in both realms and PURGE
Wait, teaming up with their own soul? Is this some dualist hogwash? And if the paladin had the power to defeat the devil, why didn't he do so before selling his soul and getting under the thumb of the power he meant to fight?

>>55085091
>Release of souls
A powerful Paladin soul is worth a lot more than evil or neutral souls, but it would still be asking a lot I suppose.
Even if the demon was confident he could get those souls back again

>Dualist Hogwash
What is a man, but his soul? If he can function without one and has one to go into the afterlife as, then surely he could have a spiritual self and a material self if they were split?

>Power to defeat it, why bother?
To get a friend on the other side for recon/sabotage.

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>>55065736
I'd rather sell my soul to lonely erinyes then a overused succubus

>>55085320
>selling your soul to a murderous revenge machine that knows nothing but hate and murder
>selling your soul to a sex fiend that will fuck you to death if your lucky, and just keep you as a sex toy for food if you're unlucky
HHHHhhhmmmmm.

>>55079512
demons are if you want power at any price

GOO's are if you want the eldritch truth

>>55082722
"so, honey tell us- are you still seeing that nice witch girl? "
"i heard that Balorgosh's spawn have already razed several villages, have you razed any villages sweety?"
"why do you never commune with us? dont want us to embarrass you in front of your friends? you should invite them over"

>>55061329
>Don't you tell me what my Ur-Priest can't accomplish! They'll fuck up any God! Name the time, place, and God!
1358 DR, Waterdeep, Lord Ao. Bitch.

warlocks are like pornstars
fags don't become warlocks by choice
they become warlocks due to circumstance, tragedy and lies

>be poop peasant
>village invaded by gobbos, they kill and rape everyone
>only you are left alive
>go to a lord to ask to kill gobbos
>eh piss on your dog
>you cri
>a satan appears and offers you free powers to kill 3 of the gobbos
>you agree
>in the process a satan ensures you become more jaded and depressed
>offers you more powers this time at the price of your penis or lord's daughter or something
>you agree
>finally a satan offers you all the powers (a cantrip and perspective of growth) in exchange for your sole
>you agree because you are so upset and jaded you don't care what happens to you anymore all that matters is that all gobbos and lords die so noone can pee on your dog anymore

>>55085320
Erinyes > succubus any day.

>>55085328
Please its as if you don't know that succubus feed on your life essence and soul, which does not 'regenerate'. You will be an old aged husk and crumble like a dessicated mummy after a few days of feeding.

You can bang the hate revenge machine at the end of the day without that issue.

>Erinyes cutie leaves in the morning to slaughter some demons, revel in their pain and bathe in their blood, panties get wet from arousal.
>You take care of the household, commanding lesser creatures to do your bidding, doing w/e you enjoy doing in your free time
>erinyes cutie gets home, soaked in blood, panties overflowing with pussyjuices
>ravages you in lust riding you with unnatural vigor until exhaustion, falls asleep in your arms smiling and dreaming of killing more tomorrow, as you play with her hair and enjoy the smell of slaughter and lust on her skin

Tell me again you would rather a fucking succubus that would just be bored snacking on you until you no longer exist.

>>55086227
Most eloquently put brother, this is why we need to be vigilant against Chaos.

>>55058269
For another cantrip, of course

>>55082984
This, even though I just wanted to say that it could be the thing which elevates the character to adventurer level, as opposed to commoners and the like.

>>55084599
What could possibly go wrong, eh?

>>55057750
kek
stealing this

>>55071078
In 5e, in 1v1 combat between a sorc and a wizard core only college of Lore bitches a subtle spell using sorc of level 5 or higher will crunch any wizard of equal or slightly higher level in a spell fight, simple because of their increased spell slots and their ability to shut down anything that wizard tries for like 5 rounds without being countered, as well as still being able to cast their own spells.
A wizard has to quite literally out-clever a sorc with their outside-the-box spell list to take one out. Nothing wrong with that by the way, it makes it so good wizards can take out stupid sorcs, and good sorcs can corner and ass-pound shitty wizards, and good wizards and good sorcs can dance around each other all day which is how it should be.
If you are a wizard in a straight up fight you arn't wizarding right. If you are a sorc not reveling in arcane might you arn't sorc'n right. Period.

>>55085423
Eldritch truth is just another way of saying insanity.

>>55085186
You are full of shit

>>55065099
Hwat if another fey gets THEIR hero to overshadow HER hero? Are there crossovers? Shipping wars?

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>>55056370
>Sell your soul to nature
>Get turned into a Dryad when you die
Fuck my life.

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>>55088148
...okay so like i can get most of it but why a blindfold?

>Sell your soul to the soul seller for shoe soles
>Soul seller sells soul wholesale on sale solely to sailors
>Soul sailors sail with souls in the hold to sell souls in Seoul
>Get a free boat trip

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>>55059656
> DIY atheism
kek

>>55088794
Because Warcraft.

>>55090064
warcraft dryads are centaurs

and dont wear blindfolds

>>55090137
In 3, yeah, but that one clearly is going the blind thing like the demon hunters.

>>55056025
>sell your soul to corporate overlords
>get a dental plan
I regret nothing!

>>55090191
Lisa needs braces!

>>55090174
so its not a WC dryad then?

demon hunters are blind because of fel magic and shit

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>>55090564
it's definitely not a dryad from warcraft, they're not made from plants

>>55090564
Yeah, it's not. It's because of Warcraft, not literally a Warcraft unit.