/STG/ - Star Trek General

>>55055769
>the old Vulcan has finally learned to smile

I don't know why, but I like that.

>>55055769
I'm strangely bothered by the fact that she has a generic science badge in the first picture, but is part of medical in the second, judging by her turtleneck.

>>55056033
Could have jumped career.

Found she couldn't go any further in the old job due to the rapid march of technology and understanding. Doesn't have the aptitude to "get" this new stuff as well as she did before. Decides to go gown the other path she could have chosen during her education days, finds it comes easier to her.

Vulcans can live for a very long time, time enough to retrain and build a new career and excel.

>>55056033
McCoy had the same inconsistency. The best solution I can offer is that the Red Cross symbol is for non-coms that are dedicated medical staff.

>>55055842
Huh, never noticed that myself. Maybe they finally learned to loosen up?
>>55056033
As >>55056065 said, they could have changed careers. O'Brien was a tactical officer on the Rutledge before moving to Engineering on the Enterprise and then DS9 for example. And Data usually wore Operations/Engineering Gold but wore red when he was elevated to second in command in that one episode as well.

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Favorite star trek race?

>>55056779
Andorian. I like their strong contrast with Vulcans, and the idea of a Proud Warrior Race that actually has more going for it than just being a Proud Warrior Race - which is probably why they were capable of being a founding member of the Federation.

Plus I like the four sexes thing, I think it makes them more alien. The Federation is more impressive as an achievment, the less human its constituent species are (it's one of the reasons why if I was doing a Star Trek TV show, I'd want a major character to be a Horta)

>>55056779

ST:Ascendancy is going to have andorians as a playable race, wonder what special rules they end up getting

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>>55056779
Pre-pussification Borg, back when they were properly alien and scary.

>>55056779
Mirror-universe humans (and their mini-skirts).

>>55056946
They never said Andorians had four sexes, just that their marriages require groups of four.

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>>55056779
Aenar. At least in principle. The strange otherworldly offshoot of the other best race that is the Andorians.

Would have been nice if hey were actually blind rather than Daredevil blind. Maybe have them make an annoying clicking sound when they walk to detect walls and shit, psychic abilities used actively rather than passively to detect smaller scale things.

Having them see by another name perfectly and in colour was not how I would have done it.

>>55057074
Which is odd because in TOS they had a blind psychic that used a psychic sensor net to detect her surroundings so it wouldn't be unprecedented to do something similar for the Aenar.

>>55056779
Cardassians. I like how they evolved from "Evil Space Fascists" to a a deep and complex culture that's been on the shit end of the stick one too many times.

>>55057317
Not odd at all.

It's like warp 10 lizards or the Galactic Barrier or the planet at the center of the galaxy [insert Kolob joke here].

To acknowledge that the episode with the blind telepath human took place would mean that they would have to admit that at some point humans started to develop psychic powers and then between 23c and late 24c lost them. Why did humans spontaneously develop telepathy out of nowhere? Why did it fade away again?

Easiest way to do so would be that the ambassador's father was a Betazoid and that she was the result of a deep space one night stand before official contact with that world, or some other less annoying psychic species.

But that would require too much effort.

>>55057579
Could be that several humans do develop the ability from exposure to strange elements from space travel (a few too many milliseconds near an exposed warp core or "a strange energy phenomenon". Hell, even saying "Q did it for the lulz" is plausible).

>>55057723
How about some illegal genetic engineering?

>>55057579
Alternately: The psychic power was in the sensor net itself, but the tech didn't pan out and VISR equivalents got introduced instead.

>>55057913
Always possible too.

>>55057723
It could be easy and in keeping to explain with Q if you treat all the extra-dimensional magic space gods as the same "species". They are all more or less interchangeable in what they are from our perspective as we should be from theirs. Hell, even the silicon sand computers and the Tholians think all humanoids are the same fucking thing "ugly bags of mostly water".

Q are the authoritative main government with the Prime Directive that stops the others from turning all of creation into their amusement park. Organians are the green peace pacifist hippy Q that went to go live on a commune near the Klingon border. That one that Picard encounters that exterminated the hurq in a moment of grief stricken rage was a hippie bum going on a an Eco-holiday and fucking a native just before she got killed in some inter-tribal warfare, he then comes in with an AK and some body armour and genocidess a tribe. Q that torments Picard is the Q version of Kirk playing hard and fast with the rules to save a beautiful, wonderful, stupid people that he loves; lets call him Renegade Q.

Renegade Q starts making random humans have psychic powers because they are dear to him and they are going to need every advantage they an get in a hostile universe.

The others eventually find out that the humans can into pychic when should not telepath. This makes them suspicious. Renegade Q be all like "oh fuck the pigs found out! Shut it down! SHUT IT DOWN!" and no more humans are born with telepathy and Renegade Q pretends like he is as shocked by this as everyone else.

Renegade Q is Prometheus + Loki. He's a twisty, bastard with at best dubious methods but he is on out side. And he was punished for that.

>>55057579
>To acknowledge that the episode with the blind telepath human took place would mean that they would have to admit that at some point humans started to develop psychic powers and then between 23c and late 24c lost them. Why did humans spontaneously develop telepathy out of nowhere? Why did it fade away again?
Because it's really fucking rare and no humans we see in TNG, DS9 or VOY have it to any measurable extent.

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>>55058000
Ahh, the classic 'a wizard did it' with a star trek flair.

>>55058258
Star Trek always had magic and wizards and gods like those of antiquity ever so petty and cruel.

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>>55056779
As far as "official canon" goes, I almost want to be that guy and say Klingons, but it's very much a "depends on the writer" kind of thing. I really enjoy them when they're the Proud Warrior Race guy that loves honor, but still has a fair amount of hypocrisy, such as their usage of cloaking devices. But I hated how as the shows went on, the Klingons became more and more retarded, to the point where it was essentially written that they shit on anyone in the empire that isn't a warrior, including the scientists that are supposed to be designing their ships and waepons, or the doctors that keep them alive. I liked the earlier implication that essentially every Klingon that served in the military was a warrior, regardless of position. Them shitting on anyone who isn't swinging around a bat'leth just raises up too many questions on how they're as successful as they are, such as them curb-stomping the Federation in DS9. Brute strength only gets you so far.

A friend of mine told me the books outline Klingon society in that every Klingon is a warrior, just with different opponents. Like, a farmer's a warrior in that he fights the elements, a doctor is a warrior in that he fights disease, a lawyer is a warrior in that his battlefield is the court room. I thought that was a neat idea.

But as far as unofficial canon goes, my absolute favorite are the Gorn in Star Fleet Universe. I love how they have the appearance of your typical scary barbarian aliens, but are actually just as intelligent and diplomatic as anyone in the Federation, and their general cultural outline is interesting to me as well, with the pseudo-communistic structure.

Incidentally, I really hated STO's portrayal of the Gorn, since it was bland as hell. The single cultural trait they gave them was an autistic obsession with territory/. That didn't stop me from maining one, though.

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>>55058468

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>>55056779
Tholians. I kind of like how they are kind of generic space invader species but don't actually do that much. The unique design and later implications of their interests alternate realities are also big

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>>55058468
SFB does Gorn really well. They managed to avoid the standard lizard people tropes for the most part, hell they managed to make them fucking good guys and solid allies of the Federation, in spite of their only appearance as antagonists.

Have any of you guys played Star Trek Adventures? Is it actually good or should I forget about ever playing it and what I've designed for it?

>>55058773
Yeah, I'm a sucker for characters/races that have that contrast of "scary monster" and "actually pretty cool guys."

>>55059162
I prefer the contrast of "totally normal" or "exceptionally beautiful" and "actually kind of horrible" in sci fi. Like that super shitty episode from the first season of TNG.

>>55059018
Yep, got at least 2, maybe 3 groups (or members of) here playing both online and IRL.

General consensus seems to be good. Personally I'd rate the system design as better than both LUG and Decipher Trek games. Suitably simple yet capable of dealing with a wide array of stuff and critically: without information overload. It condenses the required information down really well whilst still letting characters have that very TV style of characters being able to at least try and do whatever is required or at least help out the specialist. Which good for gameplay because it means you're not gonna get the classic hacker problem of one character being able to access gameplay others can't and that shutting out the game, which with a setting requiring so many technical specialists, could be a real risk if the game design wasn't up to scratch.

I'd say the neat part that stands out for me is the parts of character creation where you define your own specialities, rather than picking from a huge list of skills, and character personality definitions.

>>55057344

Oh yes Cardassians. The "fellow assholes just trying to make this nation-state thing work" of the setting.

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>>55057034
A large part of that has to do with first contact. The Borg Queen, Borg becoming spacevampires who turn you into one of them by sticking their fangs... no hand tubes into your bloodstream and need to assimilate biological lifeforms that became massive out-of-character obsession later on.

Also in Voyager they ruined perfectly fine waifu by cleaning her up and putting her into that weird-ass silvery jumpsuit. What the hell Berman & Braga

>>55059205
Great, now I'm hoping I'll actually be able to find a group to play with during grad school (assuming I even get in, I really need to do well this semester). I really like the base storyline I have which I'd suggest to a DM since I really want to play it instead of running it (which is assuming I do well enough running fate this semester to warrant ever DMing again).

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>>55059179
>Like that super shitty episode from the first season of TNG.

Well that narrows it down.

>>55059162
I really like that they didn't make the monster people monsters. They didn't go unfeeling lizard, but gave them a huge collective guilt complex, and capable of cooperation and not subjugating other races like most of the big name race-focused empires.

I also am ok with their ship design and at some point will try and do a 24th century take on it

>>55059285
The one where they almost killed Wesley.

>>55057064
There's four sexes in the books. Two 'male' equivalents, two 'female' equivalents. IIRC, the two 'males' have to fuck one of the 'females' to get her pregnant, then she has to fuck the other 'female' so that the fertilized egg can be carried to term.

>>55059327
that sounds like so much effort it would be obliterated by natural selection pretty quick

>>55059352
Yeah, it's been a long-running plotline that they're going extinct. I think by the TNG era, there's only supposed to be five thousand left in the galaxy and they're looking at being totally wiped out because they keep dying in fights rather than having kids.

>>55058511
I remember seeing a gorn running around in a Mr. Rogers outfit with a squad of modestly dressed Orions on Nimbus a few years back.

>>55059368
>>55059352
Disregard that number. Doublechecked Memory Beta.

>From an initial population of 3 billion, there were only 90 million Andorians by 2376. (DS9 novel: Andor: Paradigm)

>>55059368
>>55059396
This was also before they temporarily left the Federation so they could genetically engineer the FUCK out of their species and get rid of that shit.

>>55059410
Did they manage that? I forget.

I think they were gonna focus less on reducing their genders and more on making sure that they were fertile for longer.

>>55059018
I am designing some characters and a few missions for an exploratory one-shot right now and I can echo a lot of what >>55059205 says about the system and add a few other notes.

Character creation is a lifepath system, but unlike other lifepaths (Traveler, MechWarrior 3rd) it is not possible to have a crippled/dead character or a useless character. EVERY character the lifepath system generates will be highly skilled at something, or at worst, pretty competent at a lot of stuff, which is an extremely nice touch to the system and represents Starfleet crew members very well. Each character also has some Values and Focuses that the player just picks out of thin air and help shape the character, which is extremely cool and a great way to kinda build a character up from nothing. The game actually sold me on lifepath systems being good when multiple other systems failed.

The ship creation is quick and easy (in fact, I made my own statline for best ship, the Steamrunner, and it took all of five minutes) and provides a surprising amount of options for only being one book. There are lots of enemies/non-Federation aliens in the book, lots of ships and monsters and stuff you can use out of the box, and it even comes with a precon mission if you want to just see how they do missions, which is pretty neat.

The system feels very much like the TV shows in design: there are challenges with a myriad of ways to solve them since the dice system is flexible and open-ended and everyone can be relevant if they think about how to apply their strengths or focus on what they're good at in each scene. Characters feel like they matter in most scenes and there is a strong undercurrent of "we are friends and we are allies and we out there exploring for the Federation" which is a nice change from other, more conflict-riddled, games.

If you like Star Trek and you like RPGs and you own some d20s and d6s, give it a shot.

>>55059426
Damn it guys. Now I kinda need to play this at some point. I mean a true Federation warship (designed for that specific purpose in case certain groups attack) partially designed by a Romulan experiment who now serves as the chief engineer where the main antagonists are probably the Breen with the remnants of the Borg (insane after the events of Voyager), Tal Shiar (multiple factions trying to take control and return to pre-Shinzon, being supported by Sela), Obsidian Order (same idea as Tal Shiar but being stamped out by Garak), and Dominion (mostly cold war with some factions, mostly Vorta).

>>55059867
I'm putting together a short series of introductory missions for my group that are based around being the shakedown crew on the prototype Steamrunner in 2371, as Starfleet Command is rolling out the Steamrunner as a high speed border patrol, blockade runner, and intel gatherer ship for operations against the Dominion and possibly the Borg.

The missions I have so far are as follows:
-Testing out a new experimental weapon system, tricobalt torpedoes (a nice shoutout to the Armada games). This will take place against automated drone ships, but goes sideways when an Orion privateer decides to interrupt and try their luck at stealing the torpedoes (boarding actions and everything!).
-Testing out a new powerful dilithium injector system that vastly increases the Steamrunner's impulse acceleration and warp cruising speed. However, it taxes the structural integrity fields, causes injuries among the crew, and might even send the ship somewhere unusual thanks to unforeseen warp bubble effects.
-Finally, testing out a new and very powerful gravimetric sensor suite, capable of detecting ships and systems are unseen before ranges with extreme fidelity. However, it might be giving false data, so they crew has to go check it out and since we're testing it in the Gamma Quadrant, there's the risk of Dominion entanglements, not to mention possible first contact with who/whatever it identifies.

>/stg/ now actually discusses board games regularly.

Well how about that.

>>55059018
Star Trek: Adventures is an excellent system that manages to actually feel like a Star Trek episode. Combat is fast paced and meaningful, the Momentum track makes players feel like they're building towards a goal and the Threat track lets the GM build an appropriate response. The Escalation system for breaking out the really useful equipment is one of my favorite touches because it makes the players actually have to worry about going straight to the phaser rifles, photon grenades, and Bat'Leth. My players are actually taking noncombat options for their games.

I will shill it forever

>>55061334
>The Escalation system for breaking out the really useful equipment is one of my favorite touches because it makes the players actually have to worry about going straight to the phaser rifles, photon grenades, and Bat'Leth.
So the better toys you pull out the more high end stuff you might be going up against?

>>55060280
Those are pretty cool. The ship that I was talking about would have been rolled out after all that, around 2380 instead of 2370.
>>55061334
That's why despite my character being intended for a warship his standard loadout (with the item talent) has a knife and plasma torch for extra armament.
>>55061548
Certain weapons and all armor has an escalation cost which automatically gives the DM threat through making the party seem more likely to be hostile. The system has pools for the players (momentum) and DM (threat) which can be used to modify a situation. Players earn momentum by doing well on tasks (excess successes build it). If they don't have enough momentum, they crit fail (and the DM decides not to punish them for it), an NPC builds momentum, or the situation is dangerous enough the DM can add to their threat pool. Players start with no momentum while the DM starts with 2 threat per player.

>>55061548
Basically. There's a system called Threat, which are points the GM accumulates. Among other things, the GM can spend them on letting enemies roll an extra die on a check, call up more opposition, etc. The players have a similar pool shared among the party called Momentum. It's good for almost everything, but just for an example I've attached a pic of what the players can spend Momentum on in combat.

Since currency doesn't exist in Star Trek and the players can usually replicate what they need or pull it from ship's supplies, equipment is controlled through Opportunity Costs(takes momentum to get) and Escalation Costs(generates Threat when you get it). For an example, players always have access to hand phasers, but a phaser rifle has Opportunity Cost 1 and Escalation 2, so it costs 1 momentum and generates 2 threat. (For example, the GM can spend 2 threat to have two basic Klingon soldiers show up.)

There's also a full system for Social Combat if you want to talk down your opponents instead of going in guns blazing, a writeup on the scientific method for dealing with the negative space wedgie of the week, and a whole system for making Innovations to deal with science problems(like rigging up the main deflector dish into an anti-borg particle blaster)

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>>55061882
Forgot to attach the pic...

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>>55061897
In case anyone's curious, here's the equipment list.

The TR-116(that traditional gun Ezri used) came up in my game, and I ruled it had the same stats as a phaser rifle, worked when phasers didn't, but couldn't deal nonlethal damage. (Version the players used didn't have the transport-bullets mod)

>>55062000
That's just the weapon list, there's a lot more equipment.

>>55062000
So if you have say Worf with a Mek'leth and Phaser Type-2 there's no escalation?

>>55062245
Yeah, you actually see things like that in the shows. He'll be armed like that and nobody bats an eye until he actually draws on somebody.

>>55062245
Nope. The Mek'leth is a Blade(there's a Talent players can get that lets them permanently keep an Opportunity 1 weapon on them) and the type 2 phaser is of course standard kit for all players.

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>>55062310
>>55062300
>Mek'leth OP, pls nerf

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>>55060823

We just had to keep the home fires burning long enough. I play PnP RPGs regularly, just not Trek ones. I might give the new one a look since I like the Threat system everyone's been talking about, but I'm still not super convinced Trek works as an RPG setting without a long list of caveats and group composition assumptions.

Incidentally, I bought Attack Wing, and it's okay. The model quality is pretty poor, especially for the starter box. The Galaxy is especially bad when compared to older sculpts that were toys (like the Micro Machines from the 90s).

>>55063224
The new RPG kind of has you covered if you build a team that can't cover everything. The other characters would all be supporting characters. They also cover the case where the characters aren't senior staff, are enlisted, or aren't even star fleet. I do wish the other supplements were out though.

>>55063224
Still have a bunch of those Micro Machines models from when I was a Kid. They really are quite good.

>>55063419
I want a greatly expanded ship creation system because I need my autism satisfied.

>>55063504
Agreed, I also want more info on other races especially more talents and the like. Imagine if they gave us info on the horta.

>>55063548
>>55063504

I expect these will come along in time, this feels like a system that's gonna get expanded upon. And if not officially, the mechanisms behind stuff seem like they could be reverse engineered (if they've not already been) for people to just make their own.

>>55063224

More like a paper tiger and an actual tiger. Galor is a joke, even an Excelsior should be able to match it. Vor'cha is the real threat here.

>>55063670
There are approximate release dates on memory alpha. We should get one or two more books (command division supplement and maybe the beta sector expansion) this year and all of the others (ops, alpha, sci, gamma, delta in order) next year.

1.) IRA O'Brien
2.) ATTENTION BAJORAN WORKERS
3.) Janeway is a murderer who killed Neelix
4.) Barclay posting
5.) Keiko's weird plant thing
6.) I assure you I'm... quite fertile.

9000.) O'Brien and Bashir singing
9001.) Fat Riker
9002.) Dukat did nothing wrong

100000.) Commander, tell me about your sexual organs

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1. Black Meat In Your Wormhole
2. Commander (Of Believers)
3. Change Bling ft. Odd Hoe
4. Behind Bars (Of Gold Pressed Latinum)
5. Trill Ass Nigga
6. BJore
7. Run (About)
8. Profession Prophet
9. E-N-H-A-N-C-E-D ft Dr.B
10. Accessory To Murder
Bonus Tracks
11. Authorities Defiant
12. Crack Spoonhead (Cardassian Diss)

>>55065013
I thought the Excelsior-class line was supposed to be good?

>>55067181
Excelsiors are basically cruisers.
You don't build an entire fleet out of cruisers. Excelsiors have the equivalent of support from subs, destroyers, and battleships. Galors don't have shit.

>>55066628
Shitty jungle music and the track on the album art isn't on the actual album. Go back to baneposting.

>>55067196
Technically the Excelsior is a BB that suffered from the fleet growing in tonnage while it was serving.

>>55067181

It is. The image has the caption caught between a rock and a hard place, and the implication is that it is the Excelsior that is caught. Which is kinda funny because unless it takes place during the very brief Klingon-Cardassian war when the Feds came in on the Cardie side, then at any other point in the timeline the Klingons would be allies of the Federation and it would be the Galor up shit creek here.

At any rate, given how well we know that Excelsiors could be updated and keep up with more modern ships (Lakota vs Defiant), and how shitty Cardassian ships are, if it is the Excelsior that is "trapped" here, it certainly isn't between a rock and a hard place. The Galor is a Paper Tiger just like the Cardassian Union as a whole, and the Vor'Cha is the actual threat.

>>55067454
Minor correction Feds didn't go to Cardassian side, they where forced there by Klingons when they had a shitfit when Federation refused their Remove Spoonhead call.

>>55059285
Those ships are from the board game, right? Star Fleet Battles? I doubt they are canon anymore. If Gorns ever show up again I bet they'll have a totally different ship design.

>>55058468
That take on the Klingons dovetails very nicely with the Soviet propaganda of "heroically doing your part for the motherland" and all that jazz, given that TOS Klingons were expressly Soviet analogues to the Federation's Space America (see ST:VI, entire plot thereof).

>>55056779
Mine are the Cardassians. DS9 was the first series I was old enough to remember coherently as a kid while it was airing, which is probably part of it, but I loved the Cardassians even back then. They're so much better fleshed out than most other Trek races, and /stg/ had a good thread about that a while ago. At one point as a little kid I got James Taylor and Gul Dukat mixed up in my head. I still remember that for how weird it was.

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>>55056779
I'll be lame and say Hirogen. I dunno, I think "The Predator" is a cool creature to put in Star Trek and actually explore their culture. I liked that the Hirogen were pretty high tech, but still ultimately a failed and dying culture. They tried to preserve their vitality with their hunting rituals, but ultimately just became barbarians with excellent equipment. I enjoyed the episode where they larp as Nazis and one of them rants about how they're going to exterminate themselves if they don't learn how to do something besides murder other sapients for sport. Also, I think there was a good bit in the first episode they show up where Janeway tries to drive them off by making attacking her suicidally dangerous, and the Hirogen attack anyway and die.
The Breen are cool, too.
>>55057034
This. Borg were great when they were a slow, inescapable, extinction level event. An intellect that could barely be comprehended, operating on a galactic scale rather than as individuals.
And then the Borg Queen came along and they were just flunkies for a sexy femme fatale. What a waste.

>>55068324
>This. Borg were great when they were a slow, inescapable, extinction level event. An intellect that could barely be comprehended, operating on a galactic scale rather than as individuals.
>And then the Borg Queen came along and they were just flunkies for a sexy femme fatale. What a waste.
This is mostly why I didn't mind the Borg starting off as two humans and an Organian(ish) scientist's bitch of an ex-wife, it's the logical conclusion of the shit First Contact started.

picard sucks he's scared of kids and cant get laid

sisko is the best captain he punched Q in the face once

>>55069247
Sisko had a kid, Kirk had a kid. Picard hates kids, therefore Picard hates Kirk & Sisko. Picard is worst captain.

>>55056779
ferengi. Who wouldn't want to be a space billionaire chasing profit wherever you please? Fuck exploration, I'd just want to eat exotic food and bang green women all day.
plus they received the most prejudice and racism from all the other races of the galaxy, even the "enlightened" humans of TNG and DS9 could only perceive them as greedy lechers, projecting their human values on them

>>55069265
very true plus his interests are boring pretentious shit like shakespeare, archaeology, wine and horseback riding. isn't there more fun stuff to do in the 24th century?

sisko's only real stupid quirk is he likes baseball, which is like someone today being obsessed with a sport from the 1600s. kind of lame but he's a badass

>>55069329
>kind of lame but he's a badass
That's because Sisko is a dad, therefore he has to have stupid hobby.

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So apparently 7 has a pretty good chunk of brain missing.

>>55069867
Well she *did* marry Chocolatey.

>>55066628
the photo was funny but your puns ruined it
other than trill ass nigga

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ITS BEEN A LONG ROAD

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>Captain... I think we may have a problem on our hands.

>>55069916
>has sexual tension with Harry at first, then The Doctor, then Janeway kind of
>gets paired off completely at random with Boring McMonotone who changes his interests every week and is clearly not over getting friendzoned by Janeway

I will never understand Voyager.

>>55055769
>spock
>vulcan master dude from that tuvok episode
>diplomat lady from that one enterprise episode
Seems that as Vulcans get older their emotions mellow out so they are able to express them without being consumed by them. The "we don't have emotions" shtick seems more to be a control mantra than any statement of fact.

>>55055842
It's because her breasts are finally as large as she wants them to be.

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>>55071053
I never liked the idea that people always equate Vulcans and their logical thinking to "no emotions". Even Nimoy said he never played Spock with no emotions (save the episode his brain got stolen). See pic attached.

>>55071114
For a split second I saw the "rage" picture as a >ishygddt

>>55058101
Woah..
Woah that's a really simple but logical explanation that does't dwell on it for fucking ever. Don't you know this is fucking science fiction?

>>55059244
I dunno I never saw the Borg Queen as all that different from Locutus. I know that's not the canon but I always just wrote her off as the Borg adapting to species obsessed with big leader guys.

It would've been nice if there was an episode where the Borg accomplished a goal while the Federation was busy dealing with the Borg Queen.

>>55059425
Either way you could simplify it down to "Andorians have big marriages because their warrior race bullshit put them in danger of extinction and now it's dishonorable to die before having kids."

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>>55068205
>anymore

They're canon for SFB. That's all that matters. Up until the remastering for TOS, Gorn didn't even have a ship design that appeared on the show.

>>55071705

i'm pretty certain the Gorn will be a playable race in ST Ascendancy now.
only thing is, we have to wait 2 years

>>55071203
Thing is, they still only have one or two kids at a time, not batches of four.

>>55071705
what game is that for? A trek space battles war game would be my favorite thing ever

>>55072282
Starfleet Battles. A pseudo TOS setting, with Kzinti, Gorn, Tholians, Klinks, Rommies, the UFP and several other species. Those are Gorn ships, in case you couldn't tell.

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>>55072315
>>55072282

Specifically it's the miniatures range for A Call To Arms: Star Fleet Battles.

>>55072391
The only shame about it is I can't remember if the SFB ships are in scale with the FASA designs. I like the Enterprise more than the Constitution.

>>55072391
>>55072315
Looks awesome! Ill look it up, is it fun?

>>55072409
I did a quick check and I think the FASA ones a 1:3900 scale versus 1:3125 scale for the ACTA SFB model range.

However there is always getting stuff 3d printed if you want an exact match.

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I don't get it. What's the appeal of Star Trek? The productions values are awful, the writing varies between simplistic, dull, or dumb, and the acting is pretty poor with a few exceptions. It even fails as true science fiction since it contradicts its own rules all the time. Is it the hamhanded morals that people like?

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>>55072614
I remember when trolls used to make an effort...

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>>55072614

Here's your (you). Move along home.

>>55062245
Yeah people only go "oh fuck." when Worf gets his bat'leth or a rifle.

>>55073209
Or when someone screws with his morning Prune Juice.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b_IaVMsCbf8

>>55073286
God I loved DS9. Best Trek imho.

>>55071799
Maybe they just like to fuck around. After all, we learned from Shran that the average Andorian Women is permiscuous as fuck. Maybe marriages on Andoria are less like marriages and more like fuck collectives where there's the person you love and the other 2 that touch your junk when your lover is not available.

>>55073209
Which is why those Klingons weren't fully prepared when he took them out with his Mek'leth in OPS?

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>>55075363
Mechanically: probably. Also Worf probably has just a shit-ton of fightan focuses and Security stats out the arse. Once he got to DS9, he rarely lost a fight except deliberately.

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Sigh.

All I can say really when looking at this. I mean it's decently composed and stuff but...

Yeah.

>>55078251
What's wrong?

>>55078251
Regardless of all the shit that went on behind the scenes with Axanar, I really do think they captured the essence of Star Trek quite well, if only from an aesthetic sense.
I'll watch Discovery, seeing as I won't need to sign up to CBS's bullshit service to do so. But Increasingly I feel like I'm just setting myself up to suffer.

>>55078283
One's the USS Ares. A perfectly fitting modern design for the TOS aesthetic that's incidentally part of a thing that fucked over fan productions.

The other is USS Discovery, an unfitting, ugly as shit brick whose series is just depressing to think about and it's not even out.

>>55078338
I haven't really been following Trek drama for a while.

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>>55078356
I envy you. We get enough of it here as it is to make avoiding it difficult.

>>55059285
Who put power nacels on that fidget spinner?

>>55078251
Looking at them side by side, it's no wonder they were so afraid of Axanar. There was a real risk of people assuming Axanar was the real Star Trek and Discovery was the fanwank ripoff.

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>>55078852
That's a surprisingly good point I'd not considered.

Old Trekkie here, new to Star Trek Adventures since I literally only heard about it last week. I'm going through the Core now, but thought I would ask what common pitfalls others who've actually ran a game or two would advise staying away from.

>>55079002
I have no idea about common pitfalls but I can guess what probably could easily go wrong specifically within the context of it being a star trek adventures game:

Assuming too much familiarity with the source material and expecting players to be able to solve things by remembering what happened in the show and using that rather than creating their own solutions.

Letting players get away with basically being murderhobos despite being star fleet crew and the game being set up as to avoid that.

Not letting players try to be creative in solutions (the shut up and keep stabbing the giant monster in the foot problem).

>>55079002
It's fairly heavily narrative, so if you try to play it really crunchy you'll be floundering a lot. Make sure your players know they can just say a line that sounds like trek and you'll tell them what stats to roll against for it. Prettymuch just stick to the spirit of the show and you'll be fine I think.

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>>55078852

It's funny because it's true.

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>let's just get out of this spess pitcher plant instead of killing it so it so it can't prey on anyone ever again
FROM HELL'S HEART I STAB AT THEE

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>>55080536
They said it! I clapped!
I'm of the opinion that whole plot references such as these should use quotes and such from the work instead of directly referencing it

>>55080536
that old totally-not-klingon captain ahab guy should have been recurring. One of my favorite one-off trek characters

I was watching sfdebris' review of the ending arc for DS9 and he mentioned a very interesting statistic. Apparently the prime directive is only used as a narrative device (a reason for the plot to happen) in DS9 4 times. 2 of those are in relation to Bajor. I'm wracking my brain to figure out when the other 2 occasions were. But I think that says something about DS9 as a whole. TNG and Voyager would wheel out the PD whenever convenient, whereas DS9 challenged that idea and asked questions of Starfleet's morality and methods.

>>55080843
In 2369, Chief Miles O'Brien took actions on the space station Deep Space 9 which interfered in the progression of a "hunt" between a group of Hunters and their quarry, a Tosk. The hunt was culturally significant to their society, and interference in the hunt was deemed by the station's commanding officer, Commander Sisko, to represent a violation of the Prime Directive. Sisko remarked that an exception permitting the interference would have existed had the Tosk affirmatively requested asylum from the Federation, but the Tosk considered such a request shameful. O'Brien's actions to nevertheless help the Tosk escape from the Hunters earned him a reprimand in his Starfleet record – although he justified his actions as restoring the hunt to its original level by allowing Tosk and the Hunters to continue as though they'd never come to DS9 – even though Sisko privately sympathized with his motives and was unofficially complicit in O'Brien's aid, ordering O'Brien by stopped by Constable Odo... at a leisurely pace. (DS9: "Captive Pursuit")
Also in 2369, Commander Sisko offered to remove the Ennis and the Nol-Ennis from their moon prison. Dr. Julian Bashir suggested that doing so might amount to a "jail break," thereby interfering with their society's administration of justice. Sisko replied that as the commanding officer he believed the Federation would consider the artificial microbes infused into the prisoners' systems sufficient for them to be seen as "separate and unique" from their original society, while the prisoners themselves had clearly suffered more than enough for their original crime after spending so long dying and being reborn. This would make the Prime Directive inapplicable. It remained a theoretical discussion, as no one was removed from the prison due to the microbes rendering it impossible for anyone infected by them to leave the moon. (DS9: "Battle Lines")

>>55080843
>>55080883
"In The Pale Moonlight" should also get a mention, as the entire episode was Sisko examining whether violating the Prime Directive was worth winning the war.

>>55080883
In 2374, Captain Benjamin Sisko worked with Elim Garak to force the Romulan Empire to enter into Dominion War under false pretenses. The Romulans up to that point had remained neutral in the conflict. Sisko and Starfleet felt that Federation and Klingon Empire would lose the war with the Dominion if they did not gain another ally. Both Sisko and Garak, with the knowledge and approval of Starfleet Command, created false evidence that ultimately convinced the Romulans that the Dominion was planning to renege on the Peace Treaty between the two governments and mount a full scale invasion. Participation in the war by the Romulans resulted in massive military and civilian casualties within Romulan society. (DS9: "In the Pale Moonlight")

While Sisko's actions would most likely have violated the Prime Directive under normal circumstances, he carried out this mission with Starfleet's blessings during time of war. As with TOS: "Errand of Mercy", when the Federation is at war there seem to be accepted exceptions to the Prime Directive. Sisko apparently faced no consequences whatsoever for his interference with Romulan internal matters.

Captain Sisko used his superior knowledge regarding the engineering systems of the USS Defiant as well as his Starfleet tactical training and experience to help the Terran Resistance in the Mirror Universev win a major victory against the Klingon/Cardassian Alliance flagship under the command of Worf.

The Resistance had been unable to get their copy of the Defiant fully operational and had no knowledge of how to use the ship to best effect. Sisko had both, and as a result the Resistance won where it arguably should have lost. The battle arguably marked a major turning point in the Mirror Universe's history and amounted to interference in the internal matters of that universe as a whole.

Memory Alpha also lists Worf killing Gowron as an example of breaking the Prime Directive, but handwaves it as a war effort thing.

>>55080902
Yeah, I just couldn't squeeze that entry in,. Character limits.

>>55080904
>Memory Alpha also lists Worf killing Gowron as an example of breaking the Prime Directive, but handwaves it as a war effort thing.
Would also not apply as Worf was acting within the bounds of Klingon law as a member of the House of Martok, even if he's a Starfleet officer.

>>55080925
Yeah, it just says:

> The Prime Directive was not mentioned in the episode. Regardless, this major interference in Klingon internal matters by a Starfleet officer, even one who claimed to be acting as a civilian (without, it must be noted, formally resigning his commission), would seem to be a violation of the Prime Directive. As with other seeming violations during wartime, it is possible that this interference was ultimately excused as being ancillary to following orders during the war effort.

I can see it being argued as still a case, since Sisko all but told Worf to do it, but I'm more inclined to side with you on that.

>>55080843
>2 of those are in relation to Bajor.
The prime directive was also mentioned during The Circle/Li Nalas arc with not interfering with Bajor's political matters despite cardassians supplying The Circle.

What was the other Bajor one?

>>55080902
fantastic episode. that and It's Only A Paper Moon are some of the finest TV episodes ever made

>>55063224
>galor
>anything stronger than a merchant cruiser
Don't make me laugh.

>>55067205
>a BB that suffered from the fleet growing in tonnage while it was serving
Did you mean: literally every Trek ship ever

>>55082074
The constant upward trend in ship size is neat. Doesn't it basically peak with the Galaxy? I remember reading the Sovereign was smaller

>>55082143
The Sovereign is longer but otherwise smaller due to being sleeker. And yeah, after the Galaxy they decided to make smaller more specialist ships instead of sticking to massive "do everything" cruisers.

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>>55082143
>Doesn't it basically peak with the Galaxy? I remember reading the Sovereign was smaller

>>55082291
So it's the result of hot skitty on whalelord action between a Galaxy and an Intrepid.

Nice.

>>55070975
>sexual tension with Janeway
No, that was just mommy issues IC and bitchiness OOC

>>55082344
I was uncertain I'd got the dimensions right when I first matched them up, but those are official specs.

>>55055769
I wanna COCK that SPOCK

>>55056779

Husnock

Because fuck diplomacy and destroy any competitor (until you run into a god)

>>55082143

Yeah. Galaxy is pretty fucking big.

This might be obvious to those of you with greater knowledge of the lore minutia, but what's stopping any ship past 2371 from having bio-neural circuitry? Is it something that's specifically limited to Intrepid classes or could, say, a refitted Nova have it too?

>>55082715
Beta canon seems to have it slowly replacing standard circuitry. It's up to you as to what you'd do with it, but I'd keep it on specialized science vessels, since the system caused Voyager no end of problems.

>>55082760
>specialized science vessels

so just about every fucking Starfleet ship

>>55082803
I mean shit like the Intrepid, Nova and Nebula, not their normal shit.

>>55082715
The fact that they can't be replicated means they can be a pain in the ass to maintain if you're going to be away from starbase for longer than a few months.
Presumably they would have found a way around that problem later, but that could be decades down the line at best.

>>55082760
>>55082818
Well the idea I had was to refit a Nova class for some slightly-longer term assignment that would keep it away from starbase. Not anywhere as bad as Voyager, mind you, but long enough that the circuitry will be a source of tension for players. Also I figured that said "upgrade" would be able to support a holodeck made from a converted cargo bay. Or half of one. Whatever makes the most sense.

>>55080581
I'm going to need some context for that particular file-name...

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>>55082614
in STO they've continued the upward trend again, the Enterprice-J Temporal Dreadnought Cruiser makes most Federation vessels look like shuttles, that's how huge the saucer is.

>>55083249
All my exposure to STO comes from this thread but man it seems silly and bad.

>>55083249
It's not actually STO ship, the Ent-J is straight out of Enterprise and their Time War shenigans, and yes it was big ship even there.

>>55083319
It is, and they haven't released anything that big since, the other dreadnoughts are less than half its size, most are slightly larger than a Galaxy (but bulkier).
They had to redesign a few of the multiplayer PvE missions to allow its saucer to clip through walls, because it wouldn't fit.
Add that the saucer section is literally wafer thin compared to how massive the rest of the hull is, so it looks even worse in profile than it does from the top.
It was a silly thing to make, and they've clearly learned that they shouldn't do that again.

>>55083393
That is even worse, I assumed it was for the game only, not that it would actually be from a canon Star Trek TV series.

>>55083414
>Enterprise
>Actually following canon
It's a DeviantArt-tier ship at best.

>>55083426
Enterprise makes canon. "Following canon" where no previous stuff exists doesn't make sense.

>>55071114
Yeah, it's kind of what I love about Vulcans, and the mellowing process is a really neat way of showing a successful mastery of a lifetime of discipline and study of Surak's techniques.

>>55075966
Hey, it was in his contract.

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>>55083249
Didn't we all point an laugh at the Enterpise-J on /tv/?

Did anyone seriously want this?

Go back and fix the Polaris you fucks

>>55083426

Ent-J in Enterprise wasn't that bad, really. The Nova and Vorcha at the same battle were worst.

The Dauntless could be explained that the AYYs in VOY saw it via temporal shenanigans.

>>55082715
The Intrepids were the first ships in the fleet to get them. I bet the Lakota had some after that ludicrous up-gun she got, and adoption would spread to the rest of the fleet after VOY:Endgame.

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>>55083492
He is. Polaris was a fan design, the guy who did it is working on a few new versions in his off time, between working on the Ships of the Line Calendars and other things. He occasionally posts over on sketchfab as michaelwileyart,

>>55083201
I paste screengrabs over old screengrabs.

>>55085165
fair enough

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>>55083249
Speaking of STO, what's the worst looking ship in any ones opinion?
Imo, the worst one is the Imperial class assault cruiser.
>Game is new and cryptic is wondering how to fleece the most money out of their playerbase
>Creates purchasable ship skins
>Doesn't catch on
>They discontinue their ship skins, including pic related
>Later on they add tier 5 ships and then fleet ships
>Fleet assault cruiser looks like pic related
>So does the tier 6 fleet assault cruiser

Thank god i can change its skin to Regent class.

>>55085262
The Ushaan, Gallant and Aquarius class Escorts.
They're all hideously malformed ships in my opinion.

>>55083249
I can sort of see the reasoning behind it.

The flagships were always the long range exploration ships.

As time went on and the frontier gets pushed further and further away they have to travel increasing distances and it is more efficient for them to be able to spend longer times without having to come home. This means bigger and bigger ships.

Then you get to them building Enterprise D the UFP hasn't had a serious war for long enough for them to assume that they are among the biggest fish in the pond and their big boats can effortlessly slap anything that gets too uppity. Enterprise D therefore is full of all the shit that allows them some semblance of the opulence of Earth and the capacity to take the family with you because why the fuck not, there's no real danger.

Then Wolf 359. Then the Dominion War. They stop building holiday cruise ships after that. Sovereign class is a Galaxy class with all of the pointless shit stripped out of it, like the arboretum to name just one of a list of things.

Ent J was built to travel intergalactic. But we don't know how long it takes a 29c ship to travel to Andromeda and from the hints we have it seems that Andromeda is or has been in a centuries long state of Total War with weapons so batshit crazy awful that it is now largely uninhabitable.

Therefore Ent J might have to be able to endure a 15 year cruise in the intergalactic nothingness, survive the God only knows what is happening when it gets there and then make the 15 year trip back unassisted.

It would have to take a lot of shit with it for such a mission which means that it would need to be fair huej to carry it all and all the expertise.

None of this, however, is any excuse for it looking absolutely fucking shit. Like holy fuck it's like they went out of their way to intentionally make it, and by extension all, 29c ships look hideous.

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>>55085488
The reason why it looks so hideous is because the 3D artists were given like an afternoon to make a ship, render it and make it fly a loop on a screen.
That's why it looks so shit.

But on another note, i have to say that i find star treks method of exploration, illogical.
Why?
Well, mainly because they are going by an all eggs in one basket rule there, every time we see ships exploring, it's a lonely ship, like in original series, TNG and Enterprise.
Voyager can be forgiven from this sin because they went to delta quadrant not out of their own will but due to galactic wizard.
What i would find more logical would be a method more aching to the 16th century method of exploration, aka, send several ships with lots of supplies and dudes and hope that at least one ship makes it back.
Basically, it would work on multiple levels.
First of all, there was the moral support, after all it wasn't just you and your ship, it was you and folks on several other ships on same trip.
Secondly, in case of crew deaths, crew members could be transferred from other ships to perform critical tasks on other ships.
Thirdly, multiple ships carrying multiple resources on them guaranteed that they wouldn't run out of anything important too soon on their multi month long journeys.
Fourthly, in case a ship was damaged the crew could abandon it, move to other ships and whatever resources left on that ship could also be transferred to other ships, while ripping out all bits of lumber and sail that might be useful in repairing other ships.
Also it was a guarantee that if your ship went down, you wouldn't all be dead, because there would still be couple of ships around to save your sorry ass.
And last but not least, power projection, after all, if you encountered some not too kindly natives on a far off island, they would think couple of times attacking you when you had not one but possibly 5 large sail ships and hundreds of angry crewmen on your side.

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>>55085614
And if we want to go by larger ships rule, then we can look at the fleet under Zheng He's command.
Which included some fuck huge ships, which some included some small patches of farmland so they could produce fresh food while on their way, but they also had an enormous fleet of 317 exploration ships, cargo ships, combat vessels and others.

Now compare that to the Federations method of exploring and you can hear Vulcans weeping through space over the lack of logic and on how we hundreds of years ago were able to come up with perfect exploration plans but now do it in an half assed manner.

>>55085668
Let this post be a lesson to you anons, never type, then stop typing, then type again, then look for a picture, then type again, pause and type again.
It will never end well for you.

What i meant to say was that Zheng He's fleet had a fuckload of huge ships, some of which were huge enough to have plots of farmable land on them to keep them up on a supply of fresh veggies to stave off scurvy.
Also the size and amount of those ships was enough to keep any sultan or king from attacking them and made them think that China was a super power, what with being able to wield such ships and in such amounts, thus making them act in a significantly more diplomatic manner with the fleet personnel.

>>55056946
>Andorian
I like them, but I also basically wasn't aware of them at all until I binge watched Enterprise and saw Shran/Jeffrey Combs being a colossal bro across the course of the series. The character felt like one part Mass Effect squadmate, one part microcosm of humans and andorians in general building relations.

>>55085488
>arboretum
>pointless
Mental health benefits and CO2/O2 recycling, every ship needs a park. If Central Park weren't there Manhattan's suicide rates would skyrocket.

>>55085816
There are other parks in NYC anon. Central Park was built to be the grandest urban park in the US, I'll give you that, but it had nothing to do with suicide rates or anything and was for years a major problem for people as well since it drew in so many drug addicts, prostitutes and more.

>>55085847
Yeah I just read that somewhere, I don't even know how you'd go about demonstrating that.
Point is, parks are great and should be on every ship larger than a shuttlecraft.

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>>55085858
Anything with a crew of 100+ imho. Gotta make those ships cozy as fuck, anon!

Also, who likes the spheres over the saucers? I wish there were a few more ships like the Olympic and Daedalus class.

>>55085858
>>55085935
Now i agree that you gotta somehow make a ship more comfy for its crew, but couldn't you do that by having an extra holodeck in stead of an entire deck for plant life?
Couldn't you go on a walk on Central park NY on any time period you choose on a holodeck?

>>55085956
Maybe some people prefer real plants over holo-simulations? And even many ships whose first purpose in Starfleet is fighting they may need an arboretum to deal with the occasional planetary survey that crops up.

>>55086079
Why would you need an arboretum fora planetary survey?
Wouldn't a sensor suite be a better option for that, or a laboratory.

>>55086101
Biologists use greenhouses all the time, anon.

>>55086117
Yes, but why would you throw alien plant life into same room with terrestrial plant life?
Wouldn't there be a danger of new plantlife killing off the old life, replacing it in the habitat or vice-versa.
And wouldn't there also be a chance that some of the plants you find on an alien planet might be the sort that tries to leech life off of the terrestrial plants or you might have the sorta terrestrial plants with you that are doing that to the alien plants.
Imo best idea would be to have a separate room for any and all samples and force field surrounded containers for them.

>>55085956
>but couldn't you do that by having an extra holodeck in stead of an entire deck for plant life?
The Peatosians of Mendelia III would take offense to that comment, cadet. I suggest you review your interspecies diplomacy manual. Furthermore, holodecks can't handle the number of humanoid points of view the arboretum deck usually contains, and they can't be used to grow food in the case of another Voyager incident.

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>>55086175
Not sure. Maybe you should ask a biologist aboard the USS Ihavetheweirdestboner

>>55086315
Curry is about the wosrt kitbash they did for any Star Trek series. I mean when you make Excelsior parts look shit you know you fucked up badly.

>>55085816
Now for the ultimate test

Will you try and defend this

http://memory-alpha.wikia.com/wiki/Dolphin

>>55086718
Our masters wish their slaves to ferry them to the stars in the quest for the perfectly delicious fish.

>>55085733

I can only assume that the mind set is "space is so big we need to send our ships off on their own to explore it all at once."

(or because of technical limitations in the first show/wanting the ship to be a main character)

>>55086883
Yeah and the idea of sending an automated probe ahead and then send a well prepared exploration fleet in case something interesting was found, was probably too novel an idea for folks like Roddenberry back in the days.

>>55086584
Funny thing is I could see a better Curry design if they nipped the rising portion with the smiley face on it there and actually merged the excelsior part with the saucer to make one unit. Then it would be at least passable in my books but they were on a time schedule and needed to pound out a new ship fast so, well, Curry.

>>55086718
So where on the big D did they hide the Dolphin's rape cave?

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>>55086315

It's like someone saw the Oberth class and thought "hey we can make a bigger one of those out of an Excelsior".

Not only was it a bad idea but they were looking at the Oberth backwards.

>>55087136
In one of the Jeffries Tubes probably.

>>55087154
>"Where's Ensign Meyer?"
>"I think she said she was going to look at what was causing the power fluctuations in Jefferies Tube J-7."
>"My god! Did no one warn you raw recruits never to..."
>"CLICK CLICK CLICK ACK! ACK CLICK ACK CLICK!"
>"Sweet mother of Christ! Some one help blurble blurble."
>"Dammit! Why did we ever let those dolphins out of the oceans? Why?!"

>>55087154
>be Dave
>scuttling around the tubes like the mockery of life that you are
>pretty sure Section 31 are after you again.
>you have no proof of this but you have no way of shaking the gut feeling away either and it pays to be prepared.
>setting all manner of unpleasantness attached to trip wires, laser triggers and pressure pads. If they want you it will cost them steep.
>last week you were sure it was an Undine on the hull trying to break in, turns out it was just some loose cabling flapping around.
>hear commotion ahead, screaming, crying, the sounds of violence
>So, it has come to this
>take a second to time the echoes.
>2 decks down 12 meters ahead, lightly starboard, wide open space probably port aft cargo bay.
>scurry into the hollow walls and slither downwards, fall into vertical section of air vent via air-vent, clip tether on the way down to the emergency air lock bolt
>Uplifted dolphin trying to violate one of the new denizens/transfers
>continue to drop, slow down only slightly before hitting the Dolphinian stunning it.
>slap the fast retract button on the tether grappling the uplifted mistake.
>vanish once more into innatubes with the Dolphin
>that night Dave ate tuna sandwiches.
>that night faint accordion music echoed in the bones of the ship, a warning some said, and they watched the air vents and access hatches with wary eyes.

>>55087276

Looks like ensign dave is off his meds again.

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The DSV even looks a little like a Sovereign. Well the front squiddy bit at least.

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>>55087369

Oops that's the dolphin not the ship.

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Best big fed ship coming through.

>>55087401
I barely remember this show. What I do remember is that they fucked themselves over with aliens and then didn't know what to do afterwards

>>55087462

Yeah same. Part of me wants to re-watch it but another part just wants to have nostalgic memories of a submarine with a super intelligent dolphin in it left with infinite potential.

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>>55087349
>implying Dave has ever been given med to be off of

Has there ever been an 'official' case of a post-TOS Klingon wearing a TOS Klingon costume/uniform?

>>55087577
No. Though we're probably gonna get that in Discovery. What with the whole 24 different Klingon cultures shtick they're going for. I bet it'll just be played for a single scene of fan service. Then we'll be stuck with the frog heads.

>>55088093
You honestly think they'll do that? At best they may make a passing reference to them and then never touch it again.

>>55085614
>what is Project Full Circle

>>55088526
I dunno, what is project full circle?

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Alright /stg/ I've been working on a game and I want your opinions on it.

System would be a role under system with your character's level being ranks (Ensign, Lieutenant Junior Grade, Lieutenant, Lieutenant Commander, Commander, Captain, Rear Admiral, Vice Admiral, Admiral and Fleet Admiral for a nice round 10 ranks). It's a roll-over system using 2d6 for 4 main attributes. Each stat gives itself to a baseline number for your skills and each rank past ensign nets you a number of points you can put into your skills. Race gives a bonus point to one attribute and one skill and your specialization (Command, Engineering, Medical, Sciences, Tactical) gives you a bonus point to two skills to put out based on what specialization it is. At Ensign rank you pick one talent (which I'm still working on) and you get another at Lieutenant, Commander and Captain. Each Admiral ranks gets you a boon. Each character also starts with a flaw, something they may or may not need to overcome eventually (Worf's swiftness to fight, Data's lack of emotions, Spock's internal struggles between his human and vulcan halves).

For ships I decided to make each ship have it's own base line stats and each character serving on the ship may add a flaw to the ship in exchange for a boon (Shields are weakened by 10% but phasers put out 10%, etc).

I only have the "character" and "ship" sheets done, still working on equipment, ships, boons, flaws, etc. but thought you all might be interested in seeing it and giving some feedback.

For the record, the game is loose enough to play in any period but I focus on TNG-DS9-Voy to just post-Voy in terms of what I'm looking to mainly add.

>>55085935
Only if the sphere is rotated 90° so that "up" is the direction of travel and can land on planets as a self-sustaining base/colony hub.

>>55088970
Fucked up and added "role under" at the beginning because I was looking at roll-under systems recently. Please ignore that.

>>55087276
>>55087507
Who is this Dave and is he Slavic?

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=e28Qqj27qGA

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>>55089075
Space suit Dave is a misfit engineer(?) who lives in the Jefferies tubes of a Federation starship.
He is basically /k/s wet dream of a person who lives innatubes, and trapps them like a Vietkong fighter traps a tunnel network.

He also sometimes violently expands his dominion into other ships tubes.
Federation or otherwise.

>>55086903

Nah. If exploration was automated probes followed by fleets, there never would have been a Star Trek show. It would have been too expensive to film and cast it.

I mean, sure, in-universe it doesn't make much sense, but ultimately, a lot of this stuff has to do with the limitations of a television budget.

>>55089229
Yes, im aware of that.
But even in later serials where they already have the budget, they still wont do it.

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>>55089257

Because if TNG had changed the formula it would have died. TNG got a lot of hate from long time Trek fans when it aired (which it deserved for the first two seasons). When TNG started to get decent, it drew in a lot of mainstream viewers who weren't Trek fans.

Every show after that (save DS9) was trying to be the "next" TNG, and so they kept making more TNG-like episodes (to the point that VOY's episode numbers just continue from TNG season 7).

But, despite trying to appeal to mainstream audiences, the only audience Trek could manage to keep was the fans. Fans can (after initial indignation) accept change if it's good change.

The only main Trek show where they could have implemented automated probes/fleets was ENT, where it would have made the most sense. But season 1 is another rehash of TNG with a coat of prequel paint.

tl;dr Networks don't like change. They often don't understand why a thing was popular, and why it isn't now.

>>55086718
Whoa now. Technically those are space Dolphins, which supposedly are some of the best deep space navigators that aren't computers or Borg. In the only material we have with them, their quarters are actually turned into an underwater environment with a forcefield allowing you to enter but keeping the water in. At the same time, there's a fancy forcefield envelope that lets the dolphin "swim" around the ship, manipulating objects with a pair of waldo gloves. Go read Dark Mirror for more.

Also read it because it's the only good TNG era Mirror Universe.

>>55086903
>>55089229
There were a couple episodes of TNG where they were following up basic charting done by probes, conducting more thorough analysis of the systems.

>>55090105
Also the runabouts would be great for that. Warp in to system, fire a probe, move on to the next system. If I were running a frontier starbase or captaining a Galaxy class starship on a deep space mission, that's how I'd handle the bulk survey work.

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>>55090105

They did the same in TOS. I was solely discussing the "follow up fleet" idea.

>>55090147

Definitely. Runabouts are great.

>>55090147
That's probably how it works.
>look at system through telescope
>launch probe if it looks interesting enough
>launch more probes if that probe turns up something
>send small explorer (runabout, Oberth) if something particularly interesting happens
>send exploration ship if warranted
There are enough stars even in Federation territory that even your common ships would be spread thin, let alone the big cruisers. Expanding the borders of knowledge takes a lot of resources.

>>55090147
>>55090341
And the reason why we don't actually see that is because it's honestly boring. We see the Enterprise shows up when they find something interesting.

>>55090384
>Enterprise discovers something
>It's a non Federation, non warp species requiring an ambassador or nobleperson to be taxied somewhere yet again

>>55090384
>And the reason why we don't actually see that is because it's honestly boring.
Example: most every "exploran the GQ in a runabout" episode of DS9.

>>55090410
It's the sort of thing I could see fobbing off on procedural generation for a game, whether tabletop or vidya, with a few manually created systems as plot hooks.
>you find a star system and send a probe
>roll for finding an M class system
>roll for sentient life
etc.

>>55090438

A good referee would already have the star rolled up. It's not like stars can hide. Anything within warp distance has probably already been spotted with a telescope of some kind and annotated in the Federation's archives.

>>55090147
Why not attach a small warp drive on a probe?
Just use a galaxy class control ship to launch hundreds of them and keep an eye on them with multiple operators, then once you find something interesting send a call to specific fleet, Survey, Diplomacy, Mining, whatever.

>>55090473
There are stellar phenomenon that makes effective long range observation impossible though. Your point has merit however.

>>55090480
The probes already do really, it's just a slow Warp 2 or 3 one, and they don't have the fuel and power to do multiple system scans.

>>55090522
Then just mass produce these probes and have them set on a fire and forget sorta system where they self vaporize once they have scanned the system or in case contact with them is lost.

>>55090522
Except for Friendship One, and we know how that went.

>>55090550
For the most part that's what they do. The Galaxy class carried ~20 probes at a time, and would launch then retrieve each as they moved along their assigned scanning route. Having them self destruct isn't the Federation's MO, since they want to reuse the probes.

Has it ever been explained in non-canon material why Kirk's 5YM never runs into ridged Klingons?

That is, a retcon that addresses the obvious change in production/budget.

>>55090724

ENT addresses it, even though it shouldn't have.

DS9 should have had Worf in TOS Klingon makeup for "Trials and Tribble-ations".

>http://memory-alpha.wikia.com/wiki/Klingon_augment_virus

>>55090724
Kirk does run into them, but after the retcon, later material has ridged Klingons slip into command and leadership roles, with the QuchHa' ("unhappy ones", non ridged Klingons), serving as normal footsoldiers and the heads of fallen Houses.

>>55090764
I'm not referring to why they have no ridges, but why there are entire ships with Klingons who have no ridges. The virus didn't affect every single Klingon (to my knowledge).

Generally, I'm looking for non-canon stories dealing with potential Klingon segregation or even the cure that is developed by the Klingons (I know STO deals with this, but I would imagine somewhere along the line the books/comics dealt with this as well).

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>>55090724

Damn it. I read that as "canon".

But yes, the FASA Trek RPG sourcebook "The Klingons" presents the TOS Klinks as human/klingon hybrids intentionally designed to be able to understand and interface with humans. Imperial Klingons are ridged. There are also Romulan/Klingon hybrids that they use against the Romulans.

It's kinda dumb.

>>55090802
>Kirk does run into them
Based on what?

>>55090839
Based on books wrtitten after the retcon and the fact that said retcon happened a decade after the last TOS film came out. Kruge was a well known Klingon House, and had been fighting against the Federation for almost 3 decades for example. What do you want, anon, a digitally inserted ridged Klingon in the background of a shot?

>>55090884
I'm not trying to challenge you or anything, I'm just looking for book/comic titles. Looking for sources to use for a campaign I am processing for my Star Trek game.

>>55090935
Pretty much any of the TOS books since 2007 or so have Ridged Klingons in there as leaders/captains along with the occasional normal character. Kor, Kang and Koloth have some stories where they are dealing with shit assignments even with their fame due to being ridgeless. Essentially, they're second class citizens even if they're loaded down with all the honor they could get.

>>55090724
>>55090935
If you give a shit about STO, they had the de-fuckery start to happen a year after TOS ended.

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>>55090935

Hmm. I wouldn't worry too much about it. You can justify having ridged Klinks in a TOS game just by pointing to ENT.

Besides, it's your group's Trek setting once it's in play. Canon is then only the "starting state" (the Trek setting as modified by you) and what your players do with the setting. I wouldn't stress about it.

>>55090977
No shit? I should read more TOS novels, I guess. I'm reading an older book from the 80's and it kind of hints at this.

>>55091035
I know, and I'll toy with it for a while, but I kind of want to explore racial (in terms of biological race) self-segregation in the Klingon empire.

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What do you guys think of my Trek campaign idea? Might implement it in the FASA rules, or these newer ones once I have a better look.

Essentially, the players play an elite Section 31 task force who are assigned to collect intel on a new Romulan cloaking device (which leads to said device's capture in The Enterprise Incident).

Now, there's also a twist - their leader/handler's name is John Harrison, and he's the same John Harrison from Into Darkness (but this is in the Prime timeline). Throughout the mission, the crew begins to realize that they are all actually augments and Harrison is Khan - captured, brainwashed, genetically modified, and otherwise manipulated by Section 31.

Just my way of working in the Harrison stuff into the Prime timeline, as I kind of like the outlying idea of Khan being fucked with like that.

>>55091959
That was a straight Starfleet Intelligence operation, and you should be punished for even trying to add anything from JJTrek to the Prime timeline.

>>55092011
Section 31 is linked to it in the novels. Besides, they're just trying to figure out where the device is, not steal it with Kirk or whatever.

>>55092061
You're still trying to add Khan to an operation that happened long after he was marooned on Ceti Alpha V.

>>55091959
There's absolutely no reason to use prime Khan because his entire history is already known. Leaves Earth on a sleeper ship, sleeper ship is found by the Enterprise which he tries to overthrow, marooned on Ceti Alpha 5 which gets fucked over, ekes out an existence until the Reliant shows up, commandeers the Reliant, blows up. Additionally, using augmented persons of any kind is meaningless unless augmentations are going to become relevant to the plot, which they won't if it's just a Romulan cloaking device. Finally, having it be the same cloaking device captured in The Enterprise Incident will be unsatisfying to the players unless you pull a Dark Forces or Rogue One with the game and make it a mission unto itself to infiltrate a Romulan facility, discover that the cloaking device exists in the first place, and bring the data home against all odds.

>>55092061
>in the novels

Pure fucking cancer

>>55092061
There may be fair amount of overlap of membership between the two organizations. Starfleet Intelligence is just what it sounds like, but Section 31 is a private organization with no actual connection to Starfleet or the Federation government at all. One's the CIA and the other's the Bilderberg Group.

>>55091959
Not a bad idea, per se, but you need a few tweaks. First, change the name, and make it some other augment - if even one of your players has seen Into Darkness, they might put two and two together and blab the twist to somebody; by changing things up, you can still get that "... oh, you FUCKER" reaction from your players that I assume you're going for. Plus, as others have said, using Khan is kinda dumb canonically.

Secondly, make things a liiiittle more morally grey than "get some intel" - this is Section 31 we're talking about here, their whole thing is about not playing nice.

Thirdly, character backgrounds - do you have pre-genned stuff, or do you want to work with your players more?

Also, why not make the Augments a group that S31 grew from samples from Arik Soong's group? That way you're not fucking up Khan for everybody, but you still have some Augments that S31 could have plausibly gotten a hold of.

>>55090764

Having Worf just appear in TOS makeup and having NOBODY comment on the lack of ridges would only have served to make it even funnier.

>>55092409
Yeah that would have been better. It would have been a subtle confirmation that it was just a makeup limitation rather than the nature of the universe.

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There have been three Voyager episodes so far that have been amazing: the one where robots kidnap Belanna for reproduction, the one with the insane clown psyche, and this one.
Only this one is uniquely Voyager.

>>55095974
That was a hell of a downer episode.

>>55095974
>>55096030
Maybe I'm just jaded and cynical, but I feel absolutely nothing from downer episodes. It's just "okay, that was pointless"

>>55096049
Everything is pointless.

>>55096049
As far as pointless episodes go I rather liked Year of Hell, but not this one.

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>>55095974
>mfw the preeminent klingon lawyer is disbarred and must eke a living as a garbage truck driver

>>55085030
I meant get the rights to it and use it rather than the POS that passes for the Polaris in sto.

I like the refit. Might change the saucer to the original if it was me, but it's probably the sexiest ship that keeps the aesthetic of the old while making it sleeker.

>>55088526
>Project Full Circle

led me to this
http://memory-beta.wikia.com/wiki/Borg_Invasion_of_2381

which ends with this

>They then discovered the true power behind the Borg to be the lost Caeliar Sedín, who had degenerated into an entity of pure hunger and rage.

Go fuck yourself extended universe writers. Fucking hell, you just undermined the entire premise of the Borg as runaway transhumanism. The Queen wasn't bad enough was it?

That was odd, thread showed as having fallen off the board for me and now it's not.

>>55096049
Same here, the moment we knew it wasn't the main crew I was uninvested. And I don't even like the crew much anyway.
And it's a Harry Kim episode.
And I remembered the episode it's based off of so was immediately confused by the gigantic fucking plot holes between that one and this.

>>55096395
Even the people who hate VOY should enjoy how insane and incompetent Janeway is this episode .

>>55096425
I don't enjoy hating Voyager.

I don't want to enjoy hating it. I wanted it to be good.

>>55096470
I guess there's something to be said for being a youngfag.

>>55096502
I'm not really a youngfag but I agree with >>55096470.s sentiment. I wanted Voyager to be good, but then it wasn't, and so I was sad. I don't really hate Voyager, I'm just sad about the lost potential.

>>55096241
>No Buck Rogers
>Including Bebop but not Macross/Space Battleship Yamato
>Not including Legend of the Galactic Heros on /tg/
>Not putting voyager in the garbage where it belongs.

Take your pleb chart and get the fuck outta here.

>>55096699
Voyager got better when it became the 7 of EMH show.

>>55096717
See the spoiler >>55059244

But yes, Jeri Ryan was a breath of fresh air. Everyone says she was just eye candy but she was reasonably acted.

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>>55096699
Fuck yeah Buck Rogers

>>55096765
>spoiler
Well, she was basically eye candy. The fact that the eye candy came along with a basically competent actress was just gravy.

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>>55096776
bidybidybidybidy

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>>55096836

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>pygmalion plot
I can see the heartbreak from a mile away.

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>>55097369
>post this
>resume video
>emh nearly instantly realizes he's in love
Pottery.

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>>55097398
>implying a guy with no sense of humor isn't a perfect match for Seven

Any new links to update the core rulebook bit with?

>>55098109
No, because the devs keep DMCAing them if they actually get posted.

Voyager is a good show, the characters are loveable, they have some space adventures i guess, but ultimately it ended up with buckets of lost potential.
DS9 shows how its done - a way more coherent story, even tho the premise of VOY was good, the writers missed the spot on many episodes. sometimes it feels like early TNG era, with the status quo after every episode.

that being said: Janeway is leagues above Uncle Benjamin "Wewuz Gods" Sisko

>>55098580
I have to disagree on the last part. Sisko takes some time to warm up to and Avery Brooks has an odd acting style. However the episode where Garak assassinates the Romulan Senator and the whole thing is being told as a captain's log, sold me on him.

>>55090522
Didn't Worfs girlfriend get seent in a probe casing in one occasion when they didn't have a fast enough ship to deliver her to Ent-D.

>>55098839
A probe which had been modified to travel at warp 9 and keep the occupant alive, yes.

http://memory-alpha.wikia.com/wiki/Quadros-1_probe
They really built those probes to last.

>>55098715
Deep Space 9 is good series even with the flaws of some of it's characters (actorwise). And as someone said Voyager has some really good actors but they are wasted on shitty characters.

Neelix comes in mind his, hist appearence was kinda shitty and they did not improve on him like DS9 did with the Ferengi. STO did a better job with him than Voyager did and that tells how much wasted potential there was in Voyager.

>>55099045
>It's a Neelix episode

>>55098580
>Not preferring Benjamin "I'll render your fucking planet uninhabitable over a grudge" Sisko over Janeway
>>>/out/

>>55099349
Well there is couple of good Neelix episodes, first one is the one where he is desperate to find a charts of the are Voyager is heading into. The other one is the Space Oppenheimer one.

>>55099484
>I am become cheese, destroyer of bioneural gel packs

>>55099045
>STO did a better job with him than Voyager
I know I should probably play the game myself, but what does Neelix do there then?

>>55099484
They needed to play up his war flashbacks a little more and not do fucking Tuvix

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UBxk2ow0jyo

>>55099552
Basically he's the leader of whats left of his people. The Vaadwuar show back up this time backed up by the Iconians. They start killing his people and he goes all disappointed father on them

>>55099552
He's not annoying, but he's still Neelix.

>>55101077
And that is crime enough, yes?

>>55096393
Oh, poor sweet innocent anon, you don't even know about Destiny yet.

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>>55078315
I feel you man.
Seeing what they did to the Klingons, the dumb ball in the circle in a ring 'saucer' section.
I never thought I'd be rooting for a Seth McFarland project over Star Trek.

I mean really, I bet you didnt even know the attacked image is a Bat'leth.

>>55101653
From the thumbnail I'd have said a 29th century BoP

>>55096241
>Includes anime
>LoGH nowhere to be seen
>Starship Operators nowhere to be seen
>Planetes nowhere to be seen
>Bodacious space pirates garbage tier
This smells a lot like "I saw some normie anime shows from he 1990s on cartoon network"

>>55095974
That episode annoyed the shit out of me.

It's a biomimetic compound. BIOmimetic.

I can live with it duplicating Harry and Tom's uniforms because TV ratings and maybe the uniforms are made of organic fibres.

Voyager is made of metal and plastic and ceramics and shit. By it's own rules it should not exist.

Also even if the ship did fall apart before they launched the black box probe made of non-biomimetic the black box probe would still have been picked up by Real Voyager because it would be the only intact thing in the cloud of dead stupid.

Also it the ending had no effect on anything even more than the rest of Voyager to the point where they could have ended it with And It Was All A Dream and it would have meant just as much.

>>55101799
Also don't forget the Irresponsible captain Tyler!

>>55099552
There is now an entire race of him.

terry farrell ruined the DS9 Panel at this years Trek Vegas convention. The panel already had too many people in it to really get their opinions out, and Farrell just had to show up 20 mins in to it despite having her own panel the next day.

And fucking Ira Behr wasted 15 minutes ranting about politics when it had fuck all to do with the question he was asked

>>55101809
They also never copied voyager, just the crew. Possibly not the entire crew at that.

And they did so knowingly. They knew they were copies.

>>55099552
>I know I should probably play the game myself

No, you shouldn't. You really shouldn't.

>>55099577

Tuvix was a good episode. It showcases just how much of a psychopath bitch Janeway is, and how much the crew are too weak willed and unwilling to stop her from straight up committing murder.

>>55102850
>They also never copied voyager, just the crew

Yes they did. That's why the entire ship and everything on it was breaking apart when exposed to the radiation with the exception of things brought on after a certain date.

>And they did so knowingly. They knew they were copies.

They forgot according to Mr Injun.

Either way it was stupid episode.

>>55103323
In the original. They copied the crew, not Voyager. They knew they couldn't leave the planet or they'd fall apart, relatively quickly at that.

New Thread
>>55104124
>>55104124
>>55104124
>>55104124

>>55101653
image is a Bat'leth... looks nothing like a Bat'leth... WTF Paramount!

>>55096241

>VOY in the same tier as Outlaw Star

Absolutely, full-stop, no.

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>>55098580

>VOY
>loveable characters
>Janeway better than Sisko

You can take that all the way to >>/trash/.