So who was in the right during the war in heaven?

Rule of thumb is elves are always in the wrong.

>>55033551
The C'tan.

>>55033551
No one. But fuck the eldar.

>>55033592

t. squat

>>55033551
Depends on who's side you're on

>>55033551
I thought the war in heaven was necrontyr v. old ones.

Two vast empires having it out? Why assume there must be a right and wrong?

>>55034030
You find me a picture of both the races and a battle between the two, until then I'll settle with the two I have pictures of.

>>55033551
Where can I read up on this? It seems more interesting at a glance than any other conflict.

Fuck elves

>>55034100
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FyeoBm5QFnA
Here is the cliff notes version. The rest would be in the necron 5th codex and more but I don't have specifics.

>>55034095
I just genuinely didn't know if you were talking about a different conflict or if I was remembering lore wrong. It would be cool to see an actual slann v. tyr fight though.

Necrons were in the right. No reason to just let them suffer with their space cancer. Either share your secrets or kill them off. And the old ones obviously had the power to do either before the biotransference took place.

>>55033551
Necrons

I mean the old ones were kind of punks, and if the necrons have won chaos wouldn't be an issue

>>55034216
The Eldar were involved in the conflict so I figured that this would be the best way to represent them, and yeah some actual art of the old ones vs necrontyr(or at least the C'tan) would be great but I doubt we will be getting it anytime soon from GW at least.

>>55033551
The necrons got screwed, The old ones wouldn't give them a cure to their short miserable lives, and the C'Tan used them to win a rematch against the old ones. The eldar were created as living weapons to fight the C'Tan and necron, but ended up making the warp so unstable that they effectively killed off the old ones. Whereas the eldar accidentally killed the old ones, the Necron turned on the C'Tan with full intent of xenocide, but that was for revenge and the C'Tan really did deserve it. My vote is for the Necrons, they at least knew what they were doing.

>>55033551
On the one hand, the Eldar and Old Ones were dicks.
On the other, trying to destroy all life in the galaxy is not the appropriate response to someone being a dick.

>>55034305
You really have to remember that the c'tan are the only gods in 40k that haven't gone completely off the deep end.

They are both smart and have stakes in this material world(as they are material)

Reject psychic gods, obtain robros(only good psionic god is Isha

>>55034368
You do realize that life formed chaos and chaos=bad right?

And the Eldar are basically the worst offenders

>>55033551
The galaxy became a shithole because the necrons lost.
They were clearly in the right.

>>55034394
>only gods in 40k that haven't gone completely off the deep end
That would be Gork and Mork, the C'tan did go off the deep end when they started their golactic genocide and one convinced two others to start eating the rest, luckily the crons woke up and realized they got fucked over and took their revenge. Althought there are still 2(3?) full ones out there and if they come back everyone is fucked.

>>55034455
It looks like the outsider and void dragon are both unsharded and ridiculously overpowered.

And almost logical(unlike most gods)

>>55034499
I would say the void dragon is logical, the outsider is probably crazy by now he's had the personalities of all the C'tan he's eaten screaming at him for more than 65 million years so it's probably not in the best condition and best left to it's sphere of loathing.

>>55034499
If the void dragon was unsharded, then the c'tan are wimps.
The Emprah beat the shit out of him without problem.

>>55034568
You do realize that the emperor is a god right?

And the void dragons tech powers really don't help when someone is attacking you with a sword.

And the warp is really bad for the c'tan

>>55034548
And the deceiver is still pretty cool even while sharded he has eaten enough assassins to know they taste good

>>55034568
I think you are underestimating the power of the Emperor, and the Nightbringer was beaten by Khaine so let that set a scale for you. Granted I think fluff states that the Void Dragon is stronger but Big E is still miles ahead of the eldar gods seeing as the chaos gods fear him.

>>55034611
Retard alert. Retard alert!

>and the Nightbringer was beaten by Khaine so let that set a scale for you

Eldar legend. Even in the text said the it was badly translated and Eldar myths are an allegorical mess.

>Granted I think fluff states that the Void Dragon is stronger but Big E

No, it doesn't state that. anywhere. The only thing we have that's related to the matter is the pre-Molech Emperor having trouble beating a starved and wounded Shard of the Void Dragon and that was seen through the dreams of the Shard itself so it wasn't that reliable.

> still miles ahead of the eldar gods seeing as the chaos gods fear him.

Fear who? The Emperor or the Dragon? Either way it's false. The Chaos Gods fear nothing.

>>55034594
>And the warp is really bad for the c'tan

Not canon.

>You do realize that the emperor is a god right?

Practical isn't a god.

And that was the Emperor before Molech vs an anemic shard so he wasn't enen close to being godlike.

>>55034499
>>55034548
>>55034568
Retard after retard. This thread must have an infesation of /v/fag scum. I am under the opinion that /v/fags should be ran off from the board. I mean look at the scumminess here. It's nearly a decade since the Newcron retcon came out and you motherfuckers still don't know that the Void Dragon and Outsider have been sharded? All the C'tan have been sharded except for one which was erased utterly from existence. THERE ARE NO WHOLE C'TAN. You would know that if you owned a fucking codex but no. You are /v/fag scum contaminating my teegee with your casualness. Good god I am sop pissed right now.


>912.M41 THE GOD SHADOW
>A shard of the Void Dragon escapes from its imprisonment, laying waste to the Arotepk Dynasty in its mindless rage. Though only a faint shadow of a true C’tan, the Void Dragon gorges itself on a dozen worlds, expending its fury upon the living before the Arotepk Crypteks can finally force it back into its cage.

>>55034608
Not canon.

Face it, oldcron backstory was better.

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>>55035407

>>55035424
Fuck off, casual. What's next? You gonna say that Necrodermis isn't Living Metal?

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>>55033551
The winners.

Chaos. GW is going to find some way to turn the War in Heaven into something that was actually chaos' fault the whole time, just like they did with the War of the Beard in WHF

>>55035452
the war in heaven caused chaos- before that the warp was calm and relatively harmless

>>55035441
>Received no mention in the Newcron WiH lore
>Had no impact on the setting since the Eldar Empire was ascending to power to the point that they drove the Necrons off

Enslavers are the ultimate losers. They were retconned out of the thing that made them relevant.

>>55035424
This isn't Carnac he would have at least posted an actual link to his quotes and wouldn't care this much about cron lore. Also I don't think he uses reddit spacing to that extent so my bet is that it's some newcronfag from r/40klore.

>>55035452
>War of the Beard in WHF
thats the dark elves- not chaos

>>55035457
WRONG.

The War was infested with extremely hostile daemonic and Chaotic creatures to the point that the Old Ones had to construct several Daemon Cages to imprison trillions of daemonic creatures and isolate them from the Warp.

The Webway was constructed because the Old Ones feared the entities that lurked within the depths of the Warp.

You would know that if you weren't a casualfag reading outdated fluff from wikis.

>>55035474
Wrong. It was high elves, just like how it was the eldars fault that the galaxy went to shit

>>55035501
the war of the beard was caused by dark elf false flags and dwarfish stubbornness/arrogance

>>55035474
>>55035501
Chaos manipulated the Elves into rejecting Malekith which lead to the creation of the Dark Elves. Also the Chaos Gods corrupted the souls of the Dwarfs and Elves making the former extremely stubborn and the latter extremely arrogant. The Dark Elves would instigate the War of the Beard by attacking Dwarf traders and outposts. The altered Elf and dwarf mentality led them to not avoid a destructive war.

So Chaos indirectly caused the war.

>>55035501
The high elves being prideful pricks was because the influence of chaos, it's in the 8ed rule book. Also, the elves and dwarfs had many opportunities to end the war before it escalated into what it was, but the changeling/ some daemon princes kept interfering. Once the war was in full force though, it didn't really matter if chaos or dark elves were manipulating them.

>>55035534
>but the changeling/ some daemon princes kept interfering

Source this, plox.

>>55035407
Let me guess. You are a poor single sod that lives in his tiny apparment full to the brim with all kinds of /tg/ related books in his early 30s or late 20s. You proud yourselv of your knowledge of rules and lore. But somehow you can't even do something with the dudes you, if ever play with. Becasue the only reason is your so called friends think "better bad game than no game". To put it simply you are the infamous THAT GUY.
But all in all I shall pitty you because you know that the moment you step outside of your tiny appartment you know that everything hat makes your existence, everything that is you, has ZERO value in the outside world.

And thus you go out only if you must, with your eyes starring at your feet.

>>55035951
Cringe.

>>55035951
That's an awful lot of projection.

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>>55034100
5th edition version here.

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>>55036004
And 7th.

>>55035459
>wouldn't care this much about cron lore. Also I don't think he uses reddit spacing to that extent
Do you even know who Carnac is?

>>55036004
Stop SPOONFEEDING!

>>55033551

Pretty much nobody, since every side got btfo. But in s short term, the Eldar, since they ware kinda the last ones standing.

>>55033551
The Old Ones of course.

>>55033551
the frogs

anyone saying otherwise is lying or blind.

>>55033551
>war between necrontyr and old ones

Both were right and wrong? With the OO being slightly more right

>war post C'tan contact

OO because any omnicidial force is a bad force

>It's another episode of "Aykshully, CHAOS did all of it!!!11!11!!!!!"
Alright, let me finish this thread up, it will end something like this: Actual Carnac shows up, starts telling Necronac that Armless the Mary-Sue can tear apart the Chaosgods and C'tan and basically the whole universe with his OC donotsteel daemonsword. After that, Carnac will drown the thread in very selective quotes from Chaos codices and fanfiction-tier BL writing, while telling everyone who thinks Carnac might not be right off as a newfag who can't into lore and Chaos is the bestest for realsies!!!
Coincidentally, this is one of the reasons modern BL and the Horus Heresy were a mistake. They attract the very worst kind of spergs and autists: The kind of people who need everything precisely explained to them, and treat everything they hear as the word of GOD. What, the Null-fields of the Necron tear daemons a new one? Joke's on you, I have a quote in the codex that says daemons are unstoppable in fact, and there's this short story where a CSM fights an Overlord, so daemons are not affected by null-fields! What, Abaddon is the villain because he sides with the four super-satans? WRONG, he's the hero because the Emperor is badwrong and something something HE OOUTWILLS THE MULTIVERSAL; OMNIPOTENT CHAOSGODS AND HIS SUPERMURDERSWORD!!!!!!!!!!11!!!!11!!11!!1!!!!!

And at this point, I start to believe that Chaos might be very real, because it, and the accompanying fags, are the reason we can't have nice things anymore.

>>55036559
You ok there champ?

>>55033551
Old ones. They could've cured the Necron's cancer if they wanted, but they chose not to because they're assholes.

>>55036584
wait I thought OP said who was in the wrong.

So necrons were in the right.

>>55035459

>reddit spacing

I want this meme to die

>>55036574
I think the Chaosgod of Autism got me there for a moment.

>>55036559
>Alright, let me finish this thread up, it will end something like this: Actual Carnac shows up
Bit late for that.

>>55036524
>With the OO being slightly more right
>"Hey could you please heal our cancer? Our lives are a living nightmare."
>"No."

>>55033592
fpbp

Eldar are always wrong and can't do anything right

>>55034216
The necrons were a violent, warring, and enslaving race, they demanded the Old Ones cure them, old ones looked at their ways and thought probably best not to give these super racist violent asshole immortality

so what did the necrons look like before they became robot skeletons?

>>55036719
Cancer patients.

>>55036719
Spooky skeletons

>>55035407
>The Chaos Gods fear nothing
Except they have been stated to be concerned with the emperor and his plans. Nice try

>>55036804
Dumbass, not fear of him personally since he is a bitch who ran from a single daemon. What they were concerned about was his plan, yeah. His plan to isolate humanity from the Warp and prevent Chaos from consuming them.

Eat a dick, you moron. Again, The fuck ran like a yellow bellied mongrel from Drach'nyen. His fear of that daemon caused him to abandon the Webway and destroy his dream for all time. In his sight, dooming mankind.

So by what logic are you going to say that they fear that weakling? The bitch who ran from an infinitesimal shard of their collective power.

>>55035407
Carnac?

Black library Horus Heresy isn't canon.

>>55037099
Laurie Goulding disagrees.

>>55037117
Gouldstein left BL. Keep up retard. 8th rulebooks so far dont include any of the BL skub so go cry to ADB.

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>>55037117
He can suck a stack of dicks. The lore has always worked as people being able to pick and choose aspects. We all know the lore is contradictory.

>>55037072
Wew lad. Pic related.

>>55037125
Didn't stop you guys from mentioning the former BL manager quote that retired two decades ago continuously. So far, LG was the only recent insider who comment on the issue. GW never made any official statement.

>8th rulebooks so far dont include any of the BL skub so go cry to ADB.

Calls me a retard when he is the retarded bitch. 8th Ed is rife with references to BL material. The most important one is....DRACH'NYEN. ADB's novel lore about it being born of the First Murder and it not being an actual sword but a daemon by its own right is in the 8th ED CSM dex.

So a dick you must eat.

>>55037139
>He can suck a stack of dicks. The lore has always worked as people being able to pick and choose aspects.

That's wrong though. GW never stated that. In LG said this was fan bullshit.

>We all know the lore is contradictory.

According to insiders, like LG, GW is working on making the lore less contradictory. It being contradictory wasn't part of some GW plan or anything but the product of three firms of the company not communicating with each other out of rivalry or laziness. Now GW is enforcing communication and corporation between them to create a better continuity for the setting.

>Wew lad. Pic related.

Not an argument.

>>55037139
>The lore has always worked as people being able to pick and choose aspects.
That's literally what Laurie has kept saying. You can choose to personally ignore whatever you want, but if you're talking about the current, official, 'shared' version of the universe, you can't claim something isn't canon simply because you don't like it.

That said, all of you
>>55036804
>>55037099
>>55037125
>>55037139
can end this by just not replying to him.

>>55033551
Old Ones, obviously.

The idea that Necrons were right because they wanted just immortality is bullshit. While the war was started over that pretext, the war itself was just the Silent King's means to unite his people. The Necrons were so murderous and awful to each other that the ONLY way to get them to work together was to point them at another, bigger enemy. So it's kind of obvious why the Old Ones didn't respond when they asked for immortality. They were too immature and bloodthirsty as a species to be allowed to live forever.

Basically, Necrons were complete shitheads who did nothing but fight and kill each other and anyone else they came into contact with, and they fucked everything up forever by being like this.

>>55035548
8th Ed Daemons army book, it was Belakor

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>>55037186
Furthermore, GW codexes will have minimal story lore. Cliffnotes and timeline snippets is all you gonna get.

GW gave BL the responsibility to write the episodic lore installments of the new setting. Starting with Dark Imperium, "Audio Week 2017 ", Shroud of Night, picture related, and whatever comes before and after.

So if you want get updated about the going ons in the lore and see where the plotlines are going you have no choice but stick with BL or be left in the dark.

>>55037203
Page?

>>55037201
The Old Ones had many options to handle the Necrontyr.

1-They could have given them what they wanted and eliminated the pretext the Silent King needed
2-After defeating the Necrontyr during the first round of the War in Heaven, they could have exterminated them easily rather than exiling them to the core systems of their empire and leaving them there
3-Mephet'ran the messenger said that the Old Ones oppressed the Star Gods. The Old Ones probably shouldn't have antagonized a race of material gods

I would like to remind everyone that the Necron pylons are the only thing that are keeping this galaxy from plunging into the Realm of Chaos. It's the legacy of the Necrons that's keeping the legacy of the Old Ones in check. The Necrons are ever the keepers of the galaxy.

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The Necrontyr didn't really want the old ones to cure their cancer. We know that the last Silent King lived for many decades before becoming a necron, so the "Necrontyrs only lived for 30 years at most" meme is false, at least for the ruling elite.

The ruling elite of the Necrontyr could extend their lives to a reasonable degree and didn't give a shit about their subordinates. What they wanted was immortality.

They wanted the old ones to share the secret of immortality with them.

And since we know that the secret of immortality involves turning yourself into a warp god through meditation, and since we know that the Necrontyr didn't give a shit about warp stuff and were assholes, teaching them the secret of immortality would be really stupid.

Like imagine

You're a space frog who's already spent 500 years meditating and doing weird new age rituals on a daily basis hoping that someday you'd be able to become a warp god. And then a bunch of scrawny egomaniacal weirdos with tiny souls who can barely live up to 100 years and spend all their time enslaving each other ask you to teach them how to do that.

And even then, "those mean space frogs won't share their inapplicable knowledge with us" was only the pretense Szarekh used to unite all necrontyr dynasties against a common enemy. Chances are that most necrontyr fought against the old ones mostly in hopes that they'd have the opportunity to expand their empires and become more powerful than their rivals in the process.

So in short, the necrontyr were in the wrong.

>>55037226
Hey Carnac question for you. Are Thousand Sons tutelaries daemons or shards of Magnus?

>>55036719
About 9' tall emaciated, radiation burn patients on chemo.

They were really sickly, but strangely fucking powerful because they still used heavy blades like warscythes even while alive.

Casca for enjoying it

>>55033551
Necrons, but only retroactively because the warp is a shitshow specifically because of them.

>>55037352
Daemons but they are mixed with a part of the summoners soul. An example of this is Gyre.

>>55037370
How do you explain Arvida and last son of prospero then?

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>>55037355
Could be explained by powered armour/exoskeletons. Or maybe the statement that "in the hands of a lesser creature a warscythe would be of little threat" was exactly what happened.

>manletyr, when will they learn

>>55037355
yeah the thing is, there was a lot of social disparity among necrontyr and we know that some of them actually lived pretty long

so I'm pretty sure that if you were part of a dynasty's military elite, you had access to tons of enhancing drugs and augments and whatnot

>>55036719
spooky space vampires

>>55033551
Szarekh

>>55037395
I knew you would mention that. Ardiva mistook the good and noble shard of Magnus for one of them.

Magnus in Crimson King glued himself together except for the shard in Ardiva. Gyre was still around alongside her kindred so you get the point.

>>55037429
The Ahriman series shows that he wasnt complete. And you didnt answer the question you just sidestepped it?

>>55037447
I was under the impression that the first Rubric broke Magnus all over again.

And I already answered. The fact that Gyre and other daemon assistants didn't get dragged into the gluing Magnus ritual shows that the answer is no.

>>55037405
If it was an ineffective weapon, they would have just not used it.

They had old man strength, where they were physically powerful but had to get up three times a night to piss or had to rub their joints when it was about to rain.

>>55037512
>get dragged into the gluing Magnus ritual shows that the answer is no.
Why would they? Ahriman had to literally collect them and hand them to Magnus in Crimson King they didnt just get summoned from everywhere.

>I was under the impression that the first Rubric broke Magnus all over again.
Got any evidence for that?

>>55037542
>Why would they?

Because they were on the same planet and literally in the same room. And bloody hell, you think that Magnus after being glued together wouldn't pick up on tutelaries being part of him instead of honing in on a shard all the way on Terra?

>Got any evidence for that?

-Individual shards seen in Crimson King being on the loose again in Ahriman Unchanged.
-Magnus and Tzeentch manipulating Ahriman to cast the Second Rubric which is meant to undo the First Rubric.

>>55037355
Also feminist.

Female Necrontyr served among the warrior elite of the Necrontyr, the Lychguard and Triarch Praetorians.

>>55037731
Furthermore....

>"But whole enough for him to taste what he had once been and could be again when his final soul-shard was restored to him"

Magnus sees that the final soul shard is on Terra.

>‘I had the soul of the Crimson King within me,’ said Lemuel. ‘I touched his thoughts and his fears. There is a piece of his soul he cannot yet reclaim, the very best part, I think. Without it he will have all the power of Magnus the Red, but without the good that once lay within him.’

One last piece that he could not claim.

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>>55034030
Old ones and their creations (Eldar, Orks, Space Orangutans, etc vs the C'tan and Necrons
The original conflict was just the Old ones vs the Necrontyr

>>55036719
The World Engine had some Statues of Pre metal body Necrons.
They were just descibed as looking like Alien kings

>>55037863
Not just statues but holograms too. They looked exactly like Necrons except they had grey and cancerous skin on them.

>>55034073
One side was literally just jealous cuz they were lifelets

>>55035407
The chaos gods aren't human or even really individuals. Stop describing them as such.

>>55037250
>pls spoonfeed me

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>>55037533
>If it was an ineffective weapon, they would have just not used it.
What better way of proving your mettle and honour than lugging around a huge, hard, heavy rod with a gleaming tip full of extra penetrating power?

>>55039310
Just combed the whole daemon of Chaos army book. There ain't no Be'lakor n there. You lied to me...