Ivory Tower Game Design

>>55018940
It's an after-the-fact rationalization for their abject failure.

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>>55018940
The thing that really drives in the utter retardation of those designers home is the fact that they don't even understand the meaning of the whole "Timmy card" analogy they use. Timmy cards are, in fsct, not useless. Often times they're cards with big flashy effects, and sometimes, yes, those cards for all their big flashy effects are just too difficult to bring into play or use effectively... but other times they can be a very effective and very valid playstyle. Timmy cards appeal to a certain playstyle and play up to a certain fantasy, but they do not, in fact, exist just to be useless or "punish" people who haven't spent weeks autistically researching how to break the game systems.

There's a fine line between what they intended, player discovery driven mechanics, and just full blown beginner traps. They may have leaned a bit towards beginner trap, but their intention was good. Imagine if dark souls had endless tutorials teaching you how to fight effectively, had linear maps, and held your hands in boss fights. It wouldn't be nearly as fun, not because of a change in mechanical difficulty, but because you didn't learn to face those challenges on you own it's less satisfying. They tried for a similar experience and failed miserably.

>>55018940
This argument, along with whether or not social skills should be rolled or played out and whether 'I roll int to solve the puzzle' is acceptable, is basically the same argument. They're all arguing over what skills success in a roleplaying game should depend on. It is a game after all, which means player skill should have an impact on the result, the disagreement is just over which skills should and shouldn't be tested.

If your table thinks that knowledge of the system and competence at building characters is a skill you're interested in testing and developing, then play 'ivory tower' games, if not, then don't.

>>55019169
>have that character be effective without needing to research exploits in the system to make them so.

an expectation that players understand the rules and evaluate options is not unreasonable

>>55019047

In ate 90's Magic, yeah, Timmy cards were bad. Later they made good Timmy cards because they realized that immature people who are too lazy to do math played the game too and were a larger audience.

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>>55018940
>The year of our lord 2000+17
>Almost 2000+18
>People are STILL surprised when they finally realize DnD is shit and the people who are making it have no goddamn idea how to make a game
>People STILL refuse to play anything else though because DnD is the ONLY goddamn game that markets itself or has any kind of pop-culture signature.

>>55019207
> Later they made good Timmy cards because they realized that people don't like spending money to get shitty cards and want a game where you play as fantastical wizards to have fantastical creatures to use

>>55019194
>an expectation that players understand the rules and evaluate options is not unreasonable
It kind of is at this point in time, because game literacy as it applies to tabletop RPGs is still very rare and D&D does nothing to support players in acquiring that literacy.

>>55019207
That's not deliberately to punish people who wanted to play aggro, though, so much as the developers being ham-handed idiots and making creatures nonviable at nearly every level of play, with the rare exception (e.g. Juzam Djinn).

>>55019207
>immature people who are too lazy to do math
>implying netdecking 1 combo and 20 counterspells makes you SMRT

>>55019240

It's also that they want to be as mass-market as possible, and the market at large - women especially, which WotC has a hardon for attracting these days - is not interested in games that require intelligence or strategy to resolve.

>>55019247

Don't be a faggot. No one could predict how the game would go in a time where nobody made games.

>>55019240

>I don't even play roleplaying games

>>55019207
>t.butthurt controlfag

>>55019273

I actually prefer fast aggro decks, like sligh.

>>55019272
Is that just mental diarrhea or did you intend to go anywhere with it?

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>>55019302
>fast aggro

you still butthurt tho.