Starfinder

>>54986940
Its double pathfinder.
>two classes
>two ACs
>two health pools.

If you liked pathfinder, you'll love Starfinder. If you didnt, you wont.

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Envoy and solarian are shit, monster skill DCs are fucked, starship DCs are TOTALLY fucked.

Why bother?

>>54986940
I really like that combat maneuvers don't provoke attacks of opportunities.

I also really like the new stamina/health/resolve system, it reminds me of 5e's hit dice system without the rolling and with some additional tactical choice.

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40k conversions when?

Starfinder took many steps in the right direction; the caster-martial discrepancy is gone, the worst of the 3.5e conventions are gone, the setting is actually tight and the rules for things like combat, feats and equipment are fun.

However, it becomes very obvious when you look at the DCs for things like Spaceship maneuvering or even attribute selection that the rules were written by people who can't actually do math. Or write rules. If your DM was an ambitious sort they could fix Paizo's basic ass mistakes and Starfinder would actually be fun, but as it stands you just need to hope and pray Paizo is smart enough (they aren't) to put out an errata that fixes their rule errors.

Whats this?

>>54986959
>If you love dogshit you'll love a worse version of dogshit
Yeah that's why so many pathfinder fans are so excited about shitfinder right?

>>54987109
>setting good
>When there is one good race

>>54987175
Another quality post from Dave! Keep up the good work chum.

>>54986970
>>54987109
It tells fucking volumes of their... competence that any system that's actually new and not a "refinement" of the d20 is absolute fucking dogshit.

>>54986940
Its a pretty solid base but like Pathfinder before it we need many more supplements.

>>54987200
>Absolute fucking dogshit

That's the thing, it's not actually dogshit. It's just broken.

>>54987242
Glad to hear it'll only take 20 dollars to correct editing and design glaws.

>>54987242
>we need many more supplements.
I think some are expected as they make a few refinements, but we all know it's gonna be a supplement driven pile of shit that's eventually going to collapse under it's own weight

>>54987288
>Not just pirating the .pdf's

>>54987292
It really depends on how third parties treat the system and what they do with it. 3.P systems are meant to be house ruled and third partied to shit. They dont stand up well alone.

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>>54986940
the setting is really good. 11/10 imo. tons of interesting places to go and people to meet. heres just one of the like... 20 planest in the home system. i cant wait for the full setting book

>>54987388
Can I play as a robot?

>>54987414
Yes and no.

Yes, because Androids exist and the bestiary is written in such a way that you can easily reverse-engineer a monster into a PC race.

No, because there are no explicitly mechanical races like the Aballonians. That said, I'd be shocked if they don't include the Aballonians in a supplement.

>>54987388
The planets are what's really selling me on the system more than anything, desu. The cities that are on the literal sun sound like a great plot hook for moving past the intro/session 0 adventure path, along with the Eoxians and their necroships.

This is a tight blend of fantasy and sci-fi, just needs some playing around with some of the DCs to really make it work.

>>54987388
> mysterious race called the First Ones

Stopped reading there.

>>54987623
And since when was to be honest as an abbreviation one of the catch words for a sneaky back-end edit? I have not been on this board in a long ass time, it seems.

>>54987455
There's a bestiary?

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>>54987623
>The cities that are on the literal sun sound like a great plot hook for moving past the intro/session 0 adventure path, along with the Eoxians and their necroships.

>mfw the first book of the first AP opens with the party being caught in the middle of a Gang War, followed by an ambush at a crowded club.

>>54987644
There's been a smattering of statblocks released between announcement and the CRB, and roughly half of them have a little box to the side that suggests what that race would look like if you turned them into a PC race.

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>>54986970
Don't forget prices.
>a padlock costs more than a spacesuit

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>>54986959
DOUBLE ANYTHING IS ALWAYS DOUBLE THE FUN!

>>54986940
It's a pathfinder based take on a sci-fi setting, complete with all the issues you would think that brings.
World building is decent, if bullshit at times.
But overall it just shows that they don't understand their own rules, they add stuff not because it needs to be there, but because it's cool.

Verdict:
Starfinder joins Pathfinder in an alliance to keep 3.75 tards in containment

>>54987109
>but as it stands you just need to hope and pray Paizo is smart enough (they aren't) to put out an errata that fixes their rule errors.
That's never going to fucking happen. Paizo devs, in the same sentence, denied that caster supremacy even exists then tried to claim it was Pathfinder's game balance working as intended. These are not people who could ever admit they were wrong about anything or that they have made mistakes, ever.

>>54987703
Only if the thing was fun to begin with.

>>54987694
wuzzat gif from

>>54987694
If you assume its a setting in which spacesuits are as ubiquitous as regular clothes that ALMOST makes sense.

>>54987723
An ancient flash animation called Dad's Home

>>54987414
Yes you can play as an android, but no, you dont play as a robot. Androids need air and food, and gain a paltry resistance to poison. They do however act like autists.

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>>54987737
>Androids need air
wrong

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>>54987414
the androids are the closest thing to a robot race. they are similar to the synthetics from the aliens franchise. they have synthetic flesh combined with purely machine parts.

at least thats how i interrpet them

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>>54987050
>implying Rogue Trader 2e and Only War isn't already the tightest shit there is

>>54987951
>Rogue Trader 2e

Wait, this is a thing?!

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>>54988105
nvm, i'm fucking retarded, i meant to say Dark Heresy 2e

>>54988132

Well in that case, I emphatically agree with you.

>>54987887
That's how they are and it's the reason why they are sort of a mix of humanoids and constructs.

The pods from eclipse phase are also like this btw.

>>54987657
That is literally the most cliche sci-fi intro hook I have ever heard. Cliche isn't bad in some cases but I gotta ask the obvious question here: Is it /that/ bad? Like could I replace any of the nouns with other, similar nouns and achieve the same effect on the plot without too much difference?

>>54987804
Oh, you're right, my bad. Its tacked on to the end of construct traits. It really should be its own bullet.

>>54987175
>Shitfinder

haha quality wordplay my dude

How are the DC s wrong?
How does it stack up vs spelljammer?

meh/10 boiler plate scifantasy 3.pf

Some of the art is fun.

>>54990030
i love boilerplate but this isnt too exciting

>lizard person
>bug person

Okay, I can't imagine how they could fuck this up.

Are non-mages still trash compared to mages?

>>54990163
No, they've just all been turned into mages.

>>54987625

Is it because you are a faggot who doesn't like mysterious ancient people or is it because you are a faggot who doesn't like the name?

>>54987455
>>54987737
>>54987887

>No robots

HOW THE FUCK COULD THEY DROP THE FUCKING BALL LIKE THIS?

>>54990176

You're fucking with me.

>>54990178
It's ok for other people not to like what you like. You don't have to get so massively butthurt about it (and if you keep it up, you're going to end up with permanent rectal damage).

>>54990439

>I go on message boards to say I don't like shit
>then when people call me a faggot for it I call them a faggot

Why are you even on 4chan?

>>54990211
He is, there are two caster classes (Mystic and Technomancer) but they're both 6th level casters, the 9th level spells and classes are hidden behind archetypes and in-game events. Everyone else does not cast spells.

That said, he might be referring to how Magic has been consolidated into one umbrella term to describe casting in general. One Mystic might gain their power through psionic potential, while another gains their power through worship of a god. Divinity, Psionics, Arcane, they're all molded into "Magic."

>>54990474

> I go on message boards, not to have discussions, but to settle into a comfy little echo chamber where everyone jerks each other off and makes me feel good about my tastes and preferences. If someone disagrees with me, I completely can't handle it; and then I have no recourse other than name-calling because I have the intellect of a grade-schooler.

>>54990651
Not that anon, but I work with children, and even 4 year olds are better than that.

>>54990651

>hurr, this is shit. I call it er, shifinder. Because it's shit. You are a faggot if you disagree with me because I am presenting reasonable discourse and bravely standing against the circle jerk.

>>54987724
More like anything related to muderhoboing need to be easily accessible to players. Armor included.

>>54990201
Androids are basically robots, but with ego and autism
Robots are beep boop machines of any conceivable shape made to be servile and perform tasks
So if you want to be a beep boop, either perform monotonous tasks over and over without a thought of complain, or play as an android

>>54990954
You say that like Pathfinder and its entire universe wasnt just a themepark for mediocre roleplay.

>>54986940

Looks like a fun, enjoyable game, especially at lower levels. Unless you are an angry nerd.

REEEEEEEEEE

>>54991954
Only at lower levels.

Then monster skill DCs and starship DCs will fuck you up.

>>54991954
So, basically pathfinder. It gets more shit the higher you go.
Because you know, any modicum of decent game design and balance is too hard when all you know how to do is copy the 3.5 ruleset.

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>>54986940
people on the piazo forums are saying that drones are bad /tg/, are they bad? im scared.

>>54991989

Let The Hate Flow Through You

>>54986940
Better than Pathfinder than every way, still suffers from being Pathfinder in Space.

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>>54987737
>Androids need air

This is so wrong on so many levels.

Speaking of races...

Seems to me like Ysoki should have Blindsense(smell), no?

>>54987887
>just biological robots
>not even created from antarctic deep-sea starfish cell cultures.

Booring.

>>54991989
Wait how bad is it?

>>54987050
Psst, this is a blue board, you probably shouldn't be posting giant throbbing cocks.

>>54990176
>>54990211
Worked great for FASA's Fantasy Fallout, I heard.

>>54987260
Hello from White Wolf!

>>54992160
he's wrong >>54987887

>Androids do not breathe or suffer the normal environmental effects of being in a vacuum.

>>54992191
Anon, the nature of Androids is such that you could straight up say your "Android" is in fact a human whose brain and CNS was placed into a robotic shell.

>>54993182

But do the stats reflect that?

Is Starfinder really that bad?
I dislike Paizo's mechanics but do quite like their lore.

>>54990988

>Androids get +2 DEX and +2 INT
>"crafted to resemble humans"
>count as humanoids

Complete trash. Way more disappointing than the robot people in Destiny.

>>54987197
>someone doesn't like a bad game
>you must be this guy I know on reddit!
Get the fuck back there where you belong, scumbag

>>54990587

Then back to the original question:

Does magic completely shit on non-magic?

>>54993294

>Androids get +2 DEX and +2 INT

What's wrong with that?

>>54993294
I plan on just fluffing Android's as destiny exos in my games tbqh

>>54993315
It's still too early for anyone to know just how much of an impact caster utility will make over the span of campaigns, but at a read they're really well balanced against non-casters and there's no way they'll obsolete the non-caster roles with their magic even if they turn out better overall.

>>54993446

They are elves.

It makes sense in a specific brand of robot, but fails to encompass the diversity that a robot race/option would have.

>>54993228
>+2 Intelligence as your mind is now augmented
>+2 Dexterity for the same reasons, enhanced reaction times due to artificial muscles
>-2 Charisma because, although you are the same person as before, the lack of hormones and strange new sensations make you naturally uncomfortable in this new skin.

>>54993543

You know due to the way the stat system works you can actually max out any stat with robots.

And going with 'The diversity of a robot race/option' you'd end up with something utterly bland or entirely Build Your Own Race as a robot could be built to be anything at all. It doesn't make for much good in a race.

>>54986940
> Core rulebook claims that other races have trouble distinguishing male and female kasathas.
> Female Kasathas have 4 tits.
Man, your average scrub in this game must have a wisdom score of like 5, there is no fucking way an average person can't tell when someone has 4 fucking tits, and another one doesn't.

>>54993631
Obviously this is a universe where people don't consider "has tits" a way to identify women from men.

Much like how some women have penises, some men have boobs.

>>54993447

I can see that working. It looks like the perfect stat line for exos.

>>54993698
I honestly think it's because the entire Kasatha section was copy-pasted from the original kasatha section. It's poor fucking writing, and an obvious mistake.

You would literally have to be blind to not notice something like that.
Also:
> Degenerate as fuck, go kill yourself please.

>>54993549
Int and Cha are the only ones that make sense. Dex does not given the broad scope of robots.

>>54993721
>It's poor fucking writing, and an obvious mistake.

Incredible how many mistakes are in this book, eh?

>>54987109
They probably will errata alot of the stuff, because some of the developers have pretty much already said some part of the game are broken because the company forced them to put it into print for GenCon even though it wasn't ready to be released.

>>54993590

> entirely Build Your Own Race as a robot could be built to be anything at all

Oh you mean like Humans?

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Rules for Robot PCs in an upcoming expansion, goys.

>>54993726

Even Int and Cha don't make sense with what robots could be. A lot of robots are really fucking stupid and if japan has taught us anything it's that people go gaga for synthetic idols.

>>54993755

Even humans have defined features of being versatile and skillful. A human is skilled in more skills than most people and has more tricks. That's not certain with a robot, which could be super focused.

>>54993778

> A lot of robots are really fucking stupid and if japan has taught us anything

Yeah, so if you want to be a robot like that then drain you Int stat. At the end of the day, the idea is that a race of robots is going to have calculations and general knowledge on lock.

> people go gaga for synthetic idols.

So you make your robot have high Charisma. But just as synthetic idols can only do some much emotionally, same with robots.

>Even robots have defined features of being versatile and skillful.

Is it true that white males don't exist in the setting?

why do people get so fucking worked up about hating a game system holy shit do you people go outside?

>>54993590
If we're talking d20 Star Wars Saga did building your own robit well enough. They could have jacked most of the ideas from there.

>>54993844

How can those things not be done with the current android rules then?

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>>54993873
no

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>>54993943
This was Paizo's shot at making a system that wasn't entirely copy and pasted from somewhere else, and many people were hopeful for some reason. Plus space fantasy is either a new concept to these guys, or some people were lured in because they love that shit like me.

Instead of doing a lazy Pathfinder repaint they managed to make something that could have been ok and then proceeded to fuck that up with a lazy rushed system with busted math.

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>>54993698
>Much like how some women have penises,

>>54994099
Is he gay?
Post-op?
Or is he an otherkin?

>>54994294
>untied shoes
Clearly going for some sort of mental disorder.

>>54994145
Except that it *IS* copy and pasted from every single sci-fi genre that's ever been made. There is nothing "unique" about the setting. The races are just a mishmash of Guardians of the Galaxy, Star Trek, and other settings. Sci-fi + magic has already been done before in a game - Dragonstar (which was also terrible).

Even the planets are complete shit. All mono-climes - cuz plaents are usually all-jungle, or all-desert, or all-swamp (even on mountains!). Every planet has a 24 hour rotation no matter the size. Planets that are tidally locked while inner planets rotate just fine. Either they don't know any better or just don't care (probably both).

Shitty vehicle mechanics that seem like they were pulled straight out of ancient games like Star Frontiers. Seriously go look up a copy, it's probably on the OSR thread.

But really NONE of that matters, and it isn't actually why Starfinder will fail. The game will die cuz of the marketing. What made Pathfinder popular? Was it the "brilliant innovative system" that was completely different from D&D? Or was it because they plastered Seoni's tits and sorceress slut-outfit all over their products? Meanwhile what are they trying to market Starfinder with... a blue-haired lesbian in a frumpy bodysuit. This shit is doomed and won't sell - and what doesn't sell gets dropped.

>>54994784
>All mono-climes
that is literally the complete opposite of correct, anon. read the actual book b4 you spew your ignorant faggotry.
there is only one mono clime planet that i recall, the jungle lashunta planet. maybe the mars planet if that counts. thats it.

>>54994099
>implying this guy ain't some sort of fantasy Asian
Just look at the dragon o his vest

>>54995168
Fucking really? Please list them... it's okay, we'll wait.

>>54993873
Actually, they do exist! As enemies.

You heard me, every single time you see a bad guy in the artwork, it's a white guy.

Friend of mine picked it up and played it at GenCon. All he really has said about it was that starting funds are fairly shit even for 1st level characters. The example was a soldier who could use guns but that you could barely, if at all, afford a gun.

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>>54995272
I think you're talking shit, anon

>>54995307
Your friend is stupid and can't do math.

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>>54992017
Drone mechanics are actually pretty good (especially with a hover drone which according to Paizo's FAQ can wield small/medium sized weapons despite their tiny size), you just need to feat into longarm proficiency for you and the drone.

>>54987050
Most of the 40k rpg's are better than starfinder, with the worst being on the same level.
tl;dr just use the appropriate 40k system for your planned 40k adventure

>>54986940
WHY IS ALL OF THE ART FUCKING GARBAGE

>>54987109
>muh martial caster discrepancy

Jesus Christ you people need to die. Go back to playing your garbage milquetoast GURPS and 5e

>>54986940
requisite "I hate Pathfinder and Starfinder because it's popular and my speshul snoflayk shit RPG system is out of print because only autists like me bought it" post
:^)

>>54995737
>tl;dr just use the appropriate 40k system for your planned 40k adventure

40k has a very specific sort of magic that wouldn't really work for the same sort of game people would want to play starfinder for.

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>>54986940
Someone said that the difficulty of piloting a spaceship scales for some reason so you get worse as you level, not better, and that sounded just perfect for the idiots at Paizo to do.

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>>54992017
Crap, I forgot all about Wildstar.

Anyway, let's start a big internet fight by asking "which is the best Starfinder faction to join?"

It's Exo-Guardians, by the way.

>>54995711
GOD DAMMIT JUST MAKE THAT BUSTY REDHEAD FOR STARFINDER ALREADY

I find it hilarious. I'm never going to play or run it, but I'm sure as hell going to love watching the shit burn to the ground.

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>>54997290
It's Paizo with another 3.PF rule variant. What could possibly go wrong?

No I actually mean it. Paizo has garnered brand name recognition for "saving" D&D 3.5, and with how widespread their Pathfinder Society has become it's obvious it's pretty mainstream.

They're already trying to launch their new Starfinder product by holding Starfinder societies all over the damn place already. I'm about to go to DragonCon and they've already got Starfinder Society games running there.

>>54997530
My God that pic

>>54994099
>>Operative Thief
>>Untied shoelaces

What Did he mean by this ?

>>54996009
Just wait for the first /sfg/ meme game, I guarantee Sappy park a Kit Brinny image on a blank app day one.

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>>54998637

>>54997736
You have a thing for blurry titties?

So anyway is there any source for this game being rushed for Gencon? A search turned up nothing.

>>54986940
It's a streamlined attempt at a D20 sci-fi game. Action economy is tweaked, magic is nerfed, gear has levels (but not in the way you might think), templates on top of classes, and really querky starship rules.

Personally, I'm not liking it on paper. I will admit, I like the rules on starting stats and the modular stuffs for gear (the armor upgrade slot idea is great).

It feels like they should have sat down and not thrown a wall of weapons and armour at PCs (one offs, advancing versions of one model, tables of just one weapon gaining increasing damage) and instead just create an upgrade system for gear that uses like 20-25 base weapon types. Ditto for armour. It's pages upon pages of gear you are going to replace as soon as you are able to get the next best thing. Don't recycle kids, just drop that uncool armor as soon as you can afford the new hotness.

This is me though. I am insane.

>>54997530
Saved 3.5? Why save it? Why does everyone think that a game should go in the garbage the instant it stops being supported? Thinking like that causes bloat.

>>54993590
More realistically, it would make a lot of sense for them to be a wide variety of *entirely separate* races with different origins, specifications and purposes. Androids all being the same is actually a very strange thing - at the very least they should represent Light and Heavy types in the game, a basic differentiating characteristic most scifi with androids contains.

>>54995404
>Mobility still exists
>Weapon Focus still exists
Are they ever going to get over the whole feat tax thing?

>>54989617
Spelljammer didn't pretend to be SF, and it worked.
On the other hand, the pulp levels might be equal, but I would go with Spelljammer.

>>54994085

wut?

>>54993943

>why do people care about things they care about?

>Years ago.
>Sutter writes Distant Worlds for Pathfinder.
>Aballon robots are there as well as Verces techno schizophrenia and Eox post-apocalypse necro distopia.
>James Jacobs does anything possible to halt any writer of using that material in future APs on modules.
>He even tried to sabotage Kaer Maga in an AP and made Sutter write down a module in a hurry.
>Paizo sells start to plummet due 5th edition and he fucking around anything that may make him look as the hack he is.
>LETS TAKE PATHFINDER TO SPACE
>Forgets that back in the day there was DragonStar and bombed hard.
>Starfinder is so hurried Sutter comes up with the Gap bullshit idea for not have to explain the settings background.
I really hope Paizo fucks up so hard with this they end closing.

>>55000571
Surely they don't self sabotage like that.

>>54995773
You mean 4e, 5e still has it.

>>54999923
At least weapon focus is better for classes without BAB = level... well, at later levels.

>>54995773
>Plays Paizofinder
>Has the gall to call anything shit

>>54994784
>But really NONE of that matters, and it isn't actually why Starfinder will fail.
Hahahaha, are you actually retarded?
The paizodrones will gobble this shit up, it can't really fail
Why do you think it looks like PF from just a glance? It's because there needs to be a certain familiarity to convince their old customers to dump money on it.
PF and SF are the epitome of the sunk cost fallacy

>>54994784
>Star Frontiers
The originals are free here: http://www.starfrontiers.com/

>>54999881

Filling the corebook with several variants of the same race seems kinda pointless. That's more an expansion book kinda thing. You might see some stuff like that when Alternate Racial Traits show up.

>>54988679
You then go explore a mysteriously empty mining ship that took some stuff on board that turned out to be alien eggs that killed them all. But there's also goblins, space zombies and a space ghost so fantasy in space~

>>54998815
>So anyway is there any source for this game being rushed for Gencon? A search turned up nothing.

Because it wasn't.

>>54994784
>What made Pathfinder popular? Was it the "brilliant innovative system" that was completely different from D&D?
wasn't it because they swore to stick with 3.5e because boohoo a new version of D&D is different and I'm scared

>>55000642
You forgot that one of the company's main founder did jetison due "creative differences"?

>>54995773
>GURPS
>milquetoast
>compared to PF

>>55000679
If you're playing PF past level 8 you're playing a broken game.

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>>54997530

Wes Schneider has fucked off, maybe this is the beginning of Paizo's run of bad luck.

>>55002284
Oh look, it's eternally triggered bitch anon.

>>55002320

http://paizo.com/starfindersociety

>>55002346
>maybe this is the beginning of Paizo's run of bad luck.

Paizo has been having a run of bad luck ever since that infamous [Trigger Warning] thread in 2012.

>>55002530
The what? Can you link or give me a quick rundown?

>>54987175
Well said my man

>>55002530
What happened then, mate?

>>55002543
>>55002564

Just before the release of Wrath of the Righteous, a thread was posted on the Paizo forums lambasting the developers for not doing enough to include LGBT people in their setting and APs. It proved to be an extremely active and popular thread, and in it James Jacobs himself shows up and apologizes for Paizo's behavior, imploring that they're doing "everything they can" to include more LGBT people in their work, and the thread had encouraged him to "make more prominent LGBT characters" for Wrath of the Righteous.

>>54995711
>>54992017
Thanks for reminding me of that train wreck

>>55002579
Well shit, and then they got chewed out for making shit characters and making the demonic incursion something of a sidenote. It was fucked.

>>55002505
Your speedy and weirdly vehement reaction seems a lot more triggered, friendo. Want to go over some lvl4 spells and tell me how they dont break the game and make martials irrelevant?

>>55002605
And ever since that point, Paizo was plagued by disappointment and mediocrity.

>>55002670
The mechanics has always been, bro, but their fluff writing team is pretty good. Their refusal to admit wrong and that they can't write mechanics worth a damn doesn't help at all.

>>55002692
>but their fluff writing team is pretty good

Name (3) solid pieces of fluff written for Pathfinder in a Post-WotR world.

>>55002692
Their pantheon is a shit.

>>55002728
I like how Milani has been given more and more prominence until she's practically a major goddess.

>>55001800
They're only popular because they took someone else's discontinued product and started selling it themselves. It would be like if when the PS2 was discontinued Atari started selling it but slightly increased the specs and everyone acted like Atari were creative geniuses.

>>55003181
People we're upset that 3.5 would no longer be supported, because clearly there weren't enough spat books already.

>>55003252

And if there isn't a new book coming out every month, there's absolutely no point in playing the game ever again.

>>55003452
I don't see what is wrong with that sentiment. A game is just less interesting if there isn't any content to look forward to and to change up the meta.

>>55003506
Fair enough; if you have a very crunch-focused group, I can see where this would be an issue.

And I suppose that it's also an issue for people who have no steady group and rely on pickup games and FLGS's and the like.

>>54999923
Those aren't really tax feats in this one.

File: 1371740670000.gif (1MB, 320x240px) Image search: [Google]

1MB, 320x240px

>>54986940
I had fun with it. Played through all the demos during gencon.