DM Gripes thread

>>54973109
>ops who post pics for ants

>>54973109
Why is Sipderman hitting that jew?

>>54973109
>constantly remind players that in my game there are some monsters that are too powerful for them to handle, so if shit is going south retreating is a good option
>begin fighting said powerful monster.
>pcs start dropping after a few turns.
>don't retreat.
>players get mad.

>>54973109
i'm dming 5e for first timers and i feel like my players are going to get mad at me if i don't pull any punches
>b-but our characters took so long to make!

>Make an arrangement with a faction
>Decide to go murderhobo and attempt to kill them when they fufill their end of the bargain
>Surprise, it doesnt go well for them
This isnt even the first time this group did this. First time half the party died. At least the last time they ran for it, and now I can incorporate that loose thread in the campaign

>>54973109
I just want to vent this

>Players enter town control by Fascist Empire
>Looking for criminal contact to obtain a magic item
>Find out Crown Prince is in town on a tour of peace
>Rebels ambush his entourage and begin killing soldiers and civilians who get in the way
>Party decides to jump in
>Except one
>He starts killing soldiers too
>Shields rebel attackers from party's spells
>I try to alter his course by having rebels also attacking him in the chaos of the melee
>He keeps killing soldiers, and protecting rebels
>"The Empire is evil" is his only reasoning

Maybe I'm the asshole, and maybe I could have explained things more clearly. Maybe I should have straight up said that German doesn't mean Nazi. I'm sure I could have done a better job, and as it stands I did my best to keep the entire session from falling apart, and everyone seems to have had fun. But I never even entertained the thought that one player would just decided to work against the party.

Related to
>>54973109
>>54973708

I have established that there are both monsters/enemies and NPCs (mostly friendly to the party) who are drastically more powerful than the PCs at this point in time. Two of my players are constantly antagonizing these NPCs then get upset when they're just murdered outright, especially since their own party won't defend them after being so stupid.

>>54973109
>>54973708
This is literally just them having video game mentality. They've been conditioned to believe that a game world is supposed to revolve around the player and that they should be able to do whatever they want without the NPCs really reacting or giving a shit.

This also leads into why PCs tend to just plain not retreat; they're totally and completely unused to the idea that a game could be paced in such a way where there's an encounter they can lose.

They don't understand that it's not an archaic way of simulating a video game, it's a totally different thing in its own right.

>>54974850
I don't think that's true. I think it's less people thinking their video games are real, and more people getting invested into their own characters. in these sorts of games, people start to identify with their own character because you're speaking for them, all of their actions are one-to-one with that you describe, and even your mistakes have realistic consequences. So when someone says that an enemy is pretty tough, you don't hear "It's too strong for you to kill", you hear "It's gonna be badass when you kill this guy".

Video games aren't ruining your tabletops, grandad. People just make poor choices sometimes

>>54973109
>constantly warn player that if she does the thing, everything's gonna get messy
>she still does the thing
>this keeps happening all the time
>she finds it hillarious

>>54973788
Run 'em through the Tomb of Horrors. Nip that shit in the bud before it becomes a problem. The entire tabletop community will thank you for it.

>>54975071
>running tomb of horrors for first timers
if i did that i'd be stuck with 6 rogues that spend the entire game taking 20 on every tile for traps

>>54973109

>every failed action is cause of DM fiat.
>"....when I run a game...."
>kill everyone you failed to intimidate

>>54975013
so stop incentivizing her you fucking retard. give her consequences that she wont find hilarious

how is this even a fucking issue

>>54974913
>getting invested into their own characters
Actually it means they aren't invested, because they don't care if that character dies, or (because of video games) they think that character can't *really* die for good.
Even badasses run to prevent their death. Conan the fucking barbarian has fled from packs of lions, ghosts, and scores of men when he knew he didn't have a chance making it out alive. If someone is invested in their character they will behave in a way to preserve that character's life, such as running when they see that they're outmatched.

>>54976135
Yes, but people don't remember Conan for running, they remember him for outsmarting and killing cult leaders and evil monsters. You're imagining that each player is meticulously planning out the life for their character, when it's really that they want to do cool shit, and assume you put that dragon there to be killed, because what story has an evil dragon in it that doesn't get killed?

I'm not saying their right, obviously some stories do have evil dragons that don't get killed, but people only remember the highlight reel in the moment. They rarely stop to remember that Conan had to flee and lick his wounds sometimes. They only think about how badass it looked when he chopped some wizard's head off

>>54976304
Conan running away is often what led to him doing awesome shit, and in many stories his escape and chase is the main focus of the action. A player character's will to live and survive can lead into good stories. A player who isn't interested in viewing a challenge in an internally-consistent way deserves to have their character die for fatal mistakes. That's the quickest way to teach that lesson.
They assume that the dragon is there to be killed because that's how video games work.
In literature, as I've pointed out, the hero sometimes runs out of necessity. Conan runs, Fafhrd and the Gray Mouser run, Elric runs, etc. When going from books to tabletop, no one makes the assumption that they should try to kill everything, because not even the heroes in fantasy stories try to do that. The previous anon's point is that video games teach these lessons, and I'm supporting that with evidence that these players aren't getting that attitude from books.

>>54976135
There's nothing fun about having to run away though, maybe if it's like zombies/demons/creepy ass monsters, but if it's just generico bandit group #33 then the players won't want to
I'm running a game where this happened
>mundanish enemies who harbor secret attack that does assloads of ongoing damage
>PC decides to not call in the rest of the group and attempts to solo them
>gets DOT'd several times, instead of fully running away he hides, then attempts to attack immedietally after the DOTs wear off
>rolls poorly, isn't able to kill mundanish looking enemies, then gets DOT'd to death
The same player ran when there was something that was established to be threatening as all get out before hand and was clearly dangerous

>>54977446
Why would the DM make bandits the encounter strong enough to make a party flee? That's fucking stupid and a bad example.
No. You flee from huge flying things like Rocs. You flee from ghosts when you don't have magic weapons. You flee from hordes of zombies or demons, like you yourself suggested.
Characters should be played like they're adventurers who care about self-preservation. Running away is always an option that should be open, even if it's not "fun."
And if you're the DM, it's your job to make running away fun. Because it sure as fuck can be. It could be stooges-esque slapstick hijinks, a frantic, anxious escape from a murderous mob, or a stealthy attempt to evade recapture by a large, monstrous predator. All of these things can be fun.
But again, because video games make enemies tailor-made to the player, then running away doesn't seem like an appetizing choice ever. But the point is that it is in fact video games that breeds that mentality. People who get into the hobby from books have read about their heroes fleeing danger and know that it's' an option for them.

>>54977618
Because unless such person is a fucking machine he has common sense unless he roleplays pc as being stupidly brave. Its about picking the fighta you can win without getting your arm chopped off.

>a guy insults your mother
>squab time

>same situation
>guy has a fucking machete
>nope.jpg

>>54977767
>Implying the PCs get to pick every fight
I'm not really even sure what you meant. This whole back and forth has been about the players who, due to growing up on video games, believe all the enemies will be killable for them as soon as they come across them.
I'm saying that you have to teach that player that running away is an option, and running away can lead to good, interesting things as well.

>>54973461
Raimi wrote that one as part of the movie deal.

>>54932543
> "My character likes gold and shiny things"
> "So she tries to steal all the loot mid-combat before anyone else notices it"
> "She tries to steal health potions too and demands payment for them"
> "She tries to steal magic scrolls she can't even fucking read, and demands payment for them"
> "All downtime she has is spent by going into random houses and stealing whatever they have"

I remember that my cleric met a rogue like that once.

So the rogue hoarded money and took money from enemies without sharing with the rest of the group and after a group huddle, the wizard came up with a good plan in order to make the fucker understand that we weren't playing around.

So anytime the rogue got hit and asked for healing from the cleric, I would ask for some gold.

Anytime the rogue needed something or other identified or a potion, the wizard requested payment.

And anytime the barbarian caught the rogue swearing, he would shake him and take some money from him to the "Speak cleanly" jar that he cared so much for. He usually ended up divvying the loot from it with us and the wizard made sure he got the biggest part: he was a nice big oaf, that barbarian.

Eventually the rogue got the message and stopped being a cunt.

>>54914855
How dare you suggest a quantum plot hook here on /tg/

You'll be drawn and quartered for this heresy! :^)

>>54973109
Fucking players wanting to just murderhobo and then complaining when nothing progresses
>Put weeks into designing intricate overarching plot
>Start the players off blind, but leave subtle hints and clues
>Party doesnt pick up
>Over time clues get more and more obvious
>Players still cant be bothered
>Finally they reach an abandoned fort
>Obvious signs of recent entry, mystical tombs being disturbed, well of magic being tapped, yadayadayada
>Players ignore all of this and just murderhobo
>And of session: "Your game is getting stale anon, there's no plot or progression"
>"Wut"
>Finally crack and railroad them next session
Seriously, I fucking give up on doing anything other than outright telling them what to do.

And then there was this:
>Running a game where the Elves have won
>As in won. All other races have been subjugated and elves are the Catholic church crossed with the Imperial Inquisition crossed with Nazi Germany crossed with Stalin's Russia
>Elves can have you killed for looking at them if they feel like it
>The Church is absolute, heresy is punished y death
>Players rescue an Elf Cleric who has been captured by Gnolls
>Of the three only one grovels to her
>One treats her as an equal/idiot, but the other talks down to her and threatens her at every turn
>Turns out that only the groveller had read the campaign backstory and world history
>>MFW the other two realised how screwed they where
Seriously, the badmouther grovelled and begged to be allowed to repent.

Other gripes:
Player blows half the party up with an IED oil bomb
>You should never have put us in that position anon, thats bad DM'ing
>THEY where the ones who charged a mile to the undead heavy infantry who where formed up to meet them
Player suicides
>"You shouldnt put things that can randomly kill players into the campaign, thats bad DM'ing"
>YOU CLIMBED INTO THE WELL OF RAW MAGIC YOURSELF YOU FUCKWAD!

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>>54973330

Never worry, the OP from the original thread is here with the big version.

>tfw you listed all of your gripes in the previous thread.

>>54973461
Raimi era. It was a different time.

>the quest the PCs have been working since the game started was secretly helping the bad guys
Is there a worse plot point?

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>>54978096
The movie deal said Spider Man had to hit Jews?

>>54974725
If it is a fascist empire he is right to hate them. That being said he could and should have used the prince as the means to an end. Save the prince, use him for favours, use those favours to gain power, use that power to overthrow and behead him.

In the group I'll bet taking over GMing for, there's one fuckwit who brings a Switch and completely distracts himself with it during the game.
I'm already switching to team initiative to try to make it less "is it my turn yet", but if he's still blowing everyone off for vidya then he just won't be getting turns.

Ooh, here is another one from the last session I ran:
>Party is in a town that is being attacked by a horde/army of Gnolls
>A few hundred of them
>Party and guards/militia have the advantage of a nice fortified position atop the palisade
>Dwarf fighter breaks his bow
>Decides to throw himself into the mob swarming the walls
>The complains when he gets mobbed
I am not even sure why someone would throw themselves into an army in the first place, but then complaining when you start taking damage?!

My big thing is scheduling. Initiate rant mode.

I'm running a game of cyberpunk2020 with a few buds and my gf. I try like fuck to coordinate with everyone to play around one guys cycling work schedule. This dude works second shift while the rest of us are on first, is also in the national guard, and is getting married in a month so he's pretty busy right now and the rest of us get that.

But, then I get shit from everyone else, one guy and my gf in particular, bugging me about playing. So then I'll fuck around and come up with "side missions" for them to do and they comment on how they just wanna play the main story and that the side shit is not as fun.

So then I offer up cutting the dude with the shit schedule and nobody is down for that since he pretty much got all of us into role playing years ago so they say "it'd be weird" if he weren't involved.

It's frustrating as fuck because I can't win. Either we wait around for dude and the sessions are good but it's like once every 2-3 weeks and I get shit for that, or we play without him and it's not as good because it's side quest shit and they all want the main story but "we can't play without anon!"

>>54978931
>not pulling a 'I knew all along and I'm secretly in on it' play to save face

>>54973109
The only main gripe I have with my DM is that I am punished for asking questions. I was about to replace my longsword for a plus 2 longsowrd. I asked the shopkeep if I was able to sell my old sword since I was buying that one and he destroyed it. I of course wanted a discount of 25 coins (I think that's the amount a longsword is worth) so he destroyed his own +2 longsword and closed up shop, leaving the rest of my party with new weapons and me with nothing.

One of my players pees in empty two litre bottles under the table.

>>54980865
kick him out holy shit

>Player is convinced that irrelevant detail is actually crucial to the plot
>Still insists he is right even after receiving several hints to the contrary

>>54980329
What. Why would he do that? He was about to make a sale.

>>54980329
??? are you playing with an actual human being or some weird egomutant

>>54979386
west marches

pet peeve
>I'll shoot my crossbow, drink the strength potion, then rush in with my longsword, slice twice, and carry out my wounded friend while casting a fireball and smokescreen to cover our escape
>3 other players stare perplexed after they've done one action per round and wondering if they're playing this game wrong

hold it right the fuck there Rambo, there ain't enough haste spells in the spellbook or the DMG to give you that many actions

>>54980329
The only way I can think of rationalizing that is for the weapons to have been secretly cursed in some way, and the shopkeep started spilling spaghetti when you asked questions.

>>54981394
Nah it wasnt cursed or nothin, one of the other guys bought the same sword. The only reason he destroyed his own sword was because I asked for a discount for destroying my sword for no reason. This was the first session but I didnt go back

>>54981520
good call

>>54979335

Assuming you are playing D&D, how can you break your bow? Granted I have only ever played 5e, so it may be an earlier edition thing.

>>54979386
Shouldn't be that hard to fudge up a dual worlds sorta deal. Not at all familiar with Cyberpunk2020, but top of my head just from the sounds of it, simulations/VR are gonna be a thing. Someone knocks the three of them out and wires something into their heads that can hijack their consciousness and drag them into a simulation remotely. Or the three of them, for some information-gathering reason or another, create digital clones of themselves and upload them into a server or database that has some plot relevant info.

Dunno if this is bad, but whatever
>DMing PotA
>PCs make it to Rivergard Keep not knowing they are actually cultists pretending to be mecenaries
>Start asking one of the captains questions about the area before they head to Feathergale Spire
>Answers cooley, but to the best of his ability
>PCs ask one more question before they set off
>"I don't know. I'm not an encyclopedia of knowledge."
>"WOOOOOW! FUCK THIS GUY! FUCK YOU, WHY DID WE BOTHER TO TALK TO YOU?!"
>Proceed to get shit-stomped at Feathergale Spire shortly after

It was weird irony, but they still won with no casualties. I just find it odd when PCs find an NPC who doesn't know everything and soon drop them as if they insulted their entire family. Granted, they played it off as a joke, but I can't help but think that they were annoyed that they couldn't bypass half the investigation or something.

>>54974850
I don't want to berate you, but I see no fault with the player here. When you describe a tough guy, you, since you are the master, know that the threat is too severe.

For the player, the threat is a challenge. Simply describing that player character X has a bad feeling facing this encounter will not help.

>>54981712
>how can you break your bow?
some people get wacky with their critical failures

>>54977397
>They assume that the dragon is there to be killed because that's how video games work.
That's how all of fucking fiction works, you gigantic twat.

>>54983962
I always wonder, what people did blame their PCs acting the way 95% of fictional heroes act on before video games became main stream enough to be used as the universal scapegoat for this kind of thing?

>"Yeah if you want to bring a kobold along with you you're going to have some problems, guards are going to need to be convinced to let him in the city. You can do it, but it'll need some stealth or good talking"
>>"That's dumb monster adventurer's are a thing you know"

>"If you hire some mercenaries you'll certainly have an edge in the upcoming fight, but depending on how they do in the fight they will be cutting some of your exp gained down, since they count as party members"
>>"What that's dumb why would they do that?"
>"Because of this rule in the DMG, stating that exact thing"
>>"Yeah but when I run it I don't do that"
>"That's nice but that's not the rules for mercenaries and other hirelings that participate in combat"

>"Due to [world thing] the creation of magical weapons and armor is an ancient lost art, and if anyone in the world is capable of it, they're one of if not the rarest groups of people on the planet, so I'm going to say artificer is not available as a class choice"
>>"But that's dumb why are you limiting PC choices?
>"You didn't even want to play an artificer until now, you've been talking about trying monk, bard, wizard, fighter. Now you're just changing to wanting to be an artificer because I said they're unavailable"
>>"Yeah but I want to be one"

This is fucking infuriating at times

>>54984133
Superhero cartoons, I'll bet. TV series and movies too, maybe.

>>54976135
If they weren't invested into their characters, then they wouldn't be raising a fuss when their characters do die. I don't think you thought this thing through.

>>54976053
She finds all consequences hillarious

>>54981266
Nigga, this leads to some of the best interactions and funnest moments. If you gripe about this, you are a really bad, railroading DM and need to stop.

>>54982219
I had a player kinda like that in my game. If an NPC giving them a quest couldn't answer every question they could possibly think of, they were keeping secrets and trying to get them killed and they would get super pissed with said NPC for the rest of time. Because apparently an NPC knows everything about everything.

>>54984446
We have a rule at my lgs. You aren't allowed to play a character if they should have been picked off by natural selection before the campaign even started.

>>54979216
Make a 'no gaming devices' rule.

Like, in the current day and age it's pretty much impossible to prevent folks from checking their phones and messages every now and then but bringing a fucking console/handheld or laptop is just rude and easily solved.

>>54979169
That's assuming the PC (the actual character) would think that far ahead in a hectic situation

>>54974725
Sometimes you just get people who don't give a shit about their party. I've had to deal with asshole wizards who don't contribute to group efforts and at one point convinced a caravan leader that the rest of the party were actually bandits and to just leave us out in the middle of the desert. And then sometimes they're just retards, like the one time there was a warlock who decided he had to kill the entire party because we were starting to encounter eldritch creatures and he was worried we would kill his GOO and take his powers away

>>54984709
Oh, no, she doesn't play stupid characters, she's just a naturally born wizard: no sense of right and wrong.

>>54981712
He rolled a natural 1. I generally hold critical fails as part of the game play to encourage tanking 10 and 20 when not in combat, but in combat I use them as a way to represent the little oddities that occasionally happen, such as a fighter slipping on the guts of his slain foe, or a wizard making a mistake in his chant and accidentally showering the foe in rose petals instead of fire.
In this case the player did specifically state that he had been in a lot of hard close quarter fighting before joining the party, and it was not hard to extrapolate that to his bow having been damaged during the action.

>>54984188
>magic item creature is a lost art
>wizards are still around
But why? There's super powerful magic users around but they're too autistic to figure out how to put some magic into a stick?

>>54985248
>>magic item creation is a lost art*

>>54985234
Does that mean that the fighter becomes more clumsy/unlucky as he levels up and gains more attacks (and chances to roll a natural 1)?

>>54981266
make him right

>>54985384
No, that would represent more that the fighter is pushing themselves and their equipment to their limit as they become more proficient at what they do. At least that's how I interpret it.

>>54985234
That DM detected.

>players seem to think it's a fun game to fond reasons not to be together

>players want to be weird races, get mad when their tree kin is not welcomed with open arms into a town plagued by angry fey

>players get mad when dumb actions have dumb consequences and call it "DM ass pulling punishment" when they are caught by guard dogs who can smell you even if invisible

Mind you I am willing to listen to any good argument and go halfway, but holy shit sometimes you fucks just need to realize npc's have emotion and logical skills (most of the time)

>>54985039
Is she playing a wizard? If so and the party don't mind it seems s good fit.

>>54985234
>having unconfirmed crit fails
>having crit fails at all
awful

>>54982531
The problem is that they will NEVER run away, even when they fall way behind and comrades start dying. It simply doesn't occur to them.

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>>54985961
>Not forcing human-only campaigns in every RPG you run
It's almost like you want your players to play stereotypes and not characters

>>54973788
>b-but our characters took so long to make!
Try not encouraging them to care about backstory. Then prepare for the murderhobo behaviors to spring up.

>>54979386
Play a "side game". Different campaign, minus busy guy.

>>54987190
This, or try a different system. My group has a guy like this so when he can't make it we play one-off campaings in Call of Cthulu instead

>>54986966
But the bonuses.

>>54985643
>>54986434
They get crit successes so why not crit fails? It also helps stop them from becoming too cocky as they have to allow leeway for bad luck.
In combat it also represents fumbles, trips, etc. In other words random chances that are bad for the player. The NPC's and monsters get them too, so the players are not the only ones to suffer.
>>54985384
He does not have to take all those attacks, but if he does then the increased chance represents him throwing care to the wind as he pushes himself further and further.

>Half the group want to dick around and be silly, don't care about stats of puzzles
>The other half want a serious game with all nitty gritty details
It wouldn't be so rage inducing if people were just honest with what they want.

>>54987245
If you or your players really want stat bonuses, just make subraces for humans and stat them like non-human races
If your players complain, then tell them the only reason they want to play that race is for the stats and nothing else :^)

>>54985593
Yeah, but why is the heroic badass legendary warrior with a legendary sword five times as likely to fuck up something basic as the total novice with a cheap pigsticker?

>>54987261
He absolutely does have to take those attacks if he wants to contribute meaningfully.

>>54973109
>>Players who don't understand that their actions have consequences, and that if they betray, attack, or insult someone, that person will likely dislike them intensely otherwise.

What's even worse is when they then start crying "muh player agency!"

>>54987261
For one thing, experienced warriors aren't going to be fucking up 5% of the time they attack. For another, it further punishes players for choosing the weaker classes (wizards don't make a lot of attack rolls).

>>54986966
It's almost like you're an autist looking for (You)s. Nobody will miss you when you die.

>>54985593
>>54985492
>>54985234
>>54987261
But a static 5% chance to slip on guts or break a bow is obviously skewed and just retarded.

Fine, well I may be in a minority but if the monsters suffer from them then so shall the PC's.

>>54990592
The monsters shouldn't suffer from them either, genius.
Why the fuck would a war demon older than the sun have a 5% chance of fucking up each attack?

>>54990592
Crit fails don't happen to anybody you fucking idiot

>>54987261
>He does not have to take all those attacks
Hey you know that class feature that makes you contribute meaningfully? You don't have to use those you know

That's like saying wizards don't have to cast spells. Sure it's true, but how would you feel if your wizard just stands back and throws rocks at the dragon instead of casting spells?

>>54991172
After the rolled 1, roll again. If 1-5 then stage 2 crit. Continue with consecutive 1's.

A regular 1 crit means a broken or dropped weapon.
A stage 2 crit (a 1 with an after roll within 1-5) means some minor tragedy occurs that results in self or ally damage. Like tripping into window, max damage hit on friendly, grenage explodes in hand, etc
A stage 3 crit (two 1's then 1-5) is big time bad luck. Bag of grenades goes off, set on fire, lose a limb or eye, triple damage to self etc
Stage 4 crit is death.

Similar ramping for crit hit.

>>54991079
Because combat is intense and shit happens. There are tons of ways to explain it.

>>54990592
Fully agreed. If there are crits there should be fumbles, and they should apply to everything.

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>>54991871
>A regular 1 crit means a broken or dropped weapon.
what? people don't have a 5% chance to drop or break the weapon
maybe the weakest of noobs might drop their weapon with a 5% chance, but not a highly trained soldier
You are saying that a complete noob and a soldier with years of training have the same chance of suddenly dropping their weapons.

the rest of these are similarly bad.
they have a 1 in 20 chance of breaking their weapons, what happens if all their weapons break in a fight?
Also this penalizes martials even more
What the fuck

Crit should be something slightly bad, like missing a target, or getting a slight cramp, or being blinded for a short time (1 round) or something similarly serious
maybe a stage 2 or 3 crit with broken weapons, but not stage 1

You are the physical manifestation of all those "well I rolled a 20 so I can do everything" greentexts

>>54976135
I've had many players go full-on because they lost interest in them and wanted to roll a new character. Granted, that was in a super hero rpg wherein a 1st lvl character is not much less powerful than a high lvl one.

On the other hand, having also been a player, there are times when I should have run but didn't only because I didn't understand how lethal my circumstances were. Was playing a cool Gamma World character that I was trying play like a Bard. We met up with a flying monster we knew nothing about and had only been in two previous combats which we handled easily. It attacked first and missed us all. We attacked. It attacked ... and killed us all. We had no idea how dangerous our opponent was.

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>>54978231
>elves
>winning

>>54991871
This is objectively shit.

>>54992077
Your dubs compel me to reread my own post. "Broken weapon" is actually a stage 2. Stage 1 crit is only ever something that makes you lose an attack or similar inconvenience (other than "missing" since that is obvious) Also obvious is no broken weapon in a fistfight. More like hit something harder than your fist on accident and take half damage rolled.

>You are the physical manifestation of all those "well I rolled a 20 so I can do everything" greentexts

Um, no. A 20 gets you a minor damage bonus. But then roll again. 15-20 is stage 2 crit and means double dmage. Stage 3 something in the order of hit two enemies (if possible) or chain reaction of attack nullifying calamity (like a wall of rum barrels fall on enemy group losing their next attack and taking damage. stage 4 would be insta kill or lose half HP depending on enemy (no insta on a god or 10+ hd monster etc)

So, No. Not "I can do anything". Its a sliding scale of reasonable consequences. Not 5% ... 1/4 of 5% ... you tripper.

>>54992503
>Also obvious is no broken weapon in a fistfight. More like hit something harder than your fist on accident and take half damage rolled.
Okay, anon. maybe we have a slight misunderstanding:
How often do your players go into fistfights? How often do your players fight things that fists are not effective against? How widespread are weapons?

>So, No. Not "I can do anything". Its a sliding scale of reasonable consequences. Not 5% ... 1/4 of 5% ... you tripper.
first: your were the one that said that they drop their weapons on a Nat 1, which is a 5% chance of happening
second: the greentexts are about having 20s be super awesome and 1s devastating, which they only are in fighting and then only modify chances of hitting. So yeah, a game in which a fighter loses his weapon (the thing that makes him a powerful individual) every 20 attacks is like these. Fitting in a comedy game but not in anything else

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>>54992616
Ive employed a similar system in every rpg I've run (most often V&V which has lots of hth, D&D, and Gamma World) It certainly never felt like "one out of every twenty" even though statistics would seem to command it. It was always rare enough to feel fair. Always loved by players when the enemy is blistered by it so it is flat-field-sunny-day technology.

The idea of 1-20 fumbles does sound goofy but it never feels that way in play. Actually has felt just right for keeping that fear alive. In my V&V campaigns a high enough Int score helped buffer crit fail roles and characters above lvl 10 got a stage shift.

>>54985961
>players want to be weird races
what's wrong with that?

>>54992218
It makes a change, and also lets me cast elves in a really nasty light. These guys are the offspring of the SS and the Inquisition. They are nasty, superior fucks and everyone hates them. It makes a change from the usual "elves are perfect" mary sue getup.

>>54991172
Sheesh, sorry I may have not explained myself properly before either. I do take into account things like training and experience when deciding what happens.

>>54991103
Then what about crit successes? Or is the majority of /tg/ unable to cope with nasty things happening once in a while? If good things can happen, ergo there must be a balancing factor.

>>54990461
Ever been in a fight anon? Shit happens. You slip on a patch of mud, you fumble your weapon, you fubar. Things happen.

I am a pretty shitty DM and can't stop one of my players from "powergaming" as hard as possible. Staying at range from enemies makes sense as a sorcerer but he will just straight up abandon the area if there is any chance he could be damaged, always sneaking around corners but then saying it should count as still having line of sight, "I ready a firebolt spell if the npc does anything hostile whatsoever before we engage combat" is the worst offense by far and stealing everything from anybody because "my characters a pirate so I'm supposed to be greedy". Everyone else just wants to adventure but he wants to win the game.

>>54987261
>He does not have to take all those attacks
Assuming 5e, why not play literally any other martial then, if you're penalizing fighters for using one out of their 2-3 good class features?

>>54992885
Not that fellow but there is a time and places for weird races, I ran a champain where lizardfolk and the main badies and told the players not to be dragonborn, andthing else goes. Despite that one made a dragonborn charecter, before the session knowing full well that he wasnt suppose to. He then made another one where he was raped by dragon borns and somehow escaped their "auschwitz" which I never even mentioned in the setting nor planned to have a auschiwitz and was going to give birth to the first dragonborn human hybrid child. I solved this problem by ignoring it completely, and if it was brought up to any other NPC they state that they dont see the baby bump or anything.
Basically it was all in her head.

>>54992904
Crit successes only happen in combat. All they do is double damage dice. NOTHING ELSE

>LOL I ROLLED A NAT 20 I CONVINCE THE KING I AM A KING
>HAHA YOU ROLLED A 1 INSTEAD OF PUNCHING THE ORC YOU KISS HIM
This is the stupidity that occurs when you include nat 1 crit fails or nat 20 out of combat crits

>>54975071
This is fucking horrid advice, wtf.

>>54993515
>be a talented basket weaver with craft: baskets at +10
>roll to craft a bunch of baskets.
>roll to craft 20 baskets
>statistically, my hands will fall off by the 20th one, while every other basket will be a fully competent basket.

>>54995278
You've never held a manufacturing job have you?

>>54995278
Out of combat, you take a 20. In a situation where you are under pressure like combat or under time constraints? Yes you could make mistakes. Situations where external luck is a factor? You're climbing a tree but one of the branches was rotten and broke.
It's really up to the dm to not be offer the top or punishing. It does add fun to the game if your players aren't complete fucking autists

>>54978096
>>54978804
>Raimi
Never change /tg/

>>54992503
Just use Fantasycraft crit rules. Attacks and skill checks Threaten critical success if they fall within the Threat range AND are successful anyways. They Threaten a Critical Error if they are in the Error Range and also fail.

If you try to convince the king to give you his crown, and it's DC 50 (effectively impossible), you don't succeed with a +5 even if you get a natural 20.

If you're using a big clumsy weapon with an error range of 1-5, roll a 3+12 and hit the Defense 14 monster, you don't have a crit error.

What's more, critical successes and failures aren't just "lol, you rolled it", they have a cost to activate using Action Dice, which can be used for a variety of things and replenish per session, or are awarded by GM during play.

The GM also has a finite pool of AD he uses to activate your failures or enemy successes.

>>54995278
Only if the DC of the basket is 12, and at DC 9 I probably would dictate no need to roll for the same reason you don't need a skill check to open an unblocked door.

>>54999665
>i cannot open 1/20 doors i try to open

>I suffocate 1/20 times I take a breath

>>54987413
>He absolutely does have to take those attacks if he wants to contribute meaningfully

Only if all you can understand "meaningful contributions" as is sick DPS, which quite suggests you would be better served with a video game.

Sometimes the greatest victories are won without drawing steel. Think about that.

>>54984713
Nah fuck this.
If you get a call, you may answer it. It might be important, of course. (Same goes for texts, but don't respond if it doesn't seem important).

I played in a campaign where one guy would constantly get distracted by stupid shit like this. It would usually go down like this:
>GM reveals something cool that relates do something we did earlier
>Somebody nods at this verbally, we talk about it for a bit
>Continue on with the game
>Distracted guy looks up, notices the thing the GM revealed sooner or later
>Brings up the same points the rest of the group already brought up earlier
>People tell him we already talked about this while he was deep in his phone
>He apologises

I mean, he's a good guy otherwise but if I was the GM I'd take away his shit at the beginning of each session or tell him to fuck off.

>>55000320
Yes, because clearly the person who's entire class is designed around "hit stuff a lot, and hard" really wants to contribute to combat by not attacking.

Sure, "the greatest victories are won without drawing steel", but nobody is talking about those, they're talking explicitly about "A fight, the goal of which is to stop the enemies fighting us".

Arguably the classes purpose over other classes is explicitly "Achieve the greatest victories by drawing steel most reliably.", if you wanted to "achieve great victories by magic" you play a mage, "great victories through stealth" you play a stealthy character, etc. etc.

Turning this from "when the fighter class based around attacking best out of anybody needs to attack (implied combat) there's a 1/20 chance he fucks up" into "there's more than just combat meant to contribute" is ignoring the context previously given, unless you're saying that the fighter is expected to routinely use a full round of attacks outside of combat, in a circumstance where that 1/20 chance will be relevant and not met with "I pick up my sword/stand up and attack again".

>>55000684
Why should any action not have risk of failure?

It sounds like you create characters with the intent of merely hitting hard and often. If that's all you want, please stick to video games.

If you perform repeated attacks, you should see that each multiplies the chance of failure or unforced error. This is how things are. Professional baseball players would love to have a 95% home run average. You are seriously claiming that a 5% chance of a mishap, when even Barry Bonds managed only 73 home runs in a season, is too great.

>>55003102
How many times has Barry broken his baseball bat?

>>55003998
Better to ask "how many times has he been caught out, or struck out, or just nor hit a home run", because that's the sports equivalent.

>>54980865
I do this on roll20 games

>>54973788
Always kill or maim a first time party at some point. Kill off a part of them and leave one or two survivors. Only do this of course if you can tell they're feeling invincible or 'crucial' (ie have plot armor).
This instills fear of god and failure in them. You can and will likely fuck up and shit has consequences it doesn't matter if you believe your character is important. Plan better.

>>54988010
Solution. Spellcasters roll a d20 when they cast any spell. A 1 means you failed and something bad happened. I see nothing wrong with critical failures especially since I make crits even more rewarded than 'roll 2x damage die haha'

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>>54979135
Yeah. I mean, have you SEEN the movie?

>"You know, Peter, with great power comes great responsibility. Rudyard Kipling called it "White Man's Burden." Myself, I just call it as I see it: the reaponsibility of the master to discipline the servant."
>Ben looks directly at the camera.
>"The niggers, the spics, the chinks...It's our responsibility to civilize them. And if we can't? Then they shall dangle from the elm tree. The Day of the Rope is near, Pete. We'll have every nigger in this country dead or in chains in 10 years, and may God have me shot in a carjacking this very night if I'm wrong. God bless the American Nazi Party."

Why is everyone salty itt about the chance for failure going wrong?

>>55004456
That was a weird movie.

>>55004460
People are annoyed that a level 5 fighter trying to contribute fully has a 10% chance of fucking up, while rogues and wizards don't.

Unless you include critical failures for wizards, too. If the target rolls 20 on their save, it rebounds or something. Then it's just a "lolrandom" campaign instead of a "shit on the martials" campaign.

>>55004460
>Cannot understand or empathize with others.

Textbook autism.

>>55003102
A professional failing would be a normal miss, not a critfail.

>>54973109
>have to rebalance my entire campaign because half my players are playing joke characters that can't deal more than 1d4 damage

>>55004504
That all depends on the system, and most people in the thread talking about this stuff don't seem to have a gripe with it being selective but more that it exists at all. There are systems where mages can critical fail their spellcasting, and some where their spellcasting can be interrupted and the spell fucks up. I've played very few systems, but I at least know the handful I've played do.

Why are people okay with a 5% chance to get an ultra hit but not a 5% chance of a poorly made attack? In the systems I'm familiar with there are multiple results for either, ranging from double damage or an extra damage dice or serious wound that debuffs the enemy, or in failures, chipping a weapon and giving it a penalty until repaired, dropping it, or breaking it significantly, with a whole lot of other potential results. There're also extra systems on top that can allow you a reroll per session or etc to mitigate them in several games.

>>55006212
5% chance to crit is also stupid when it's an automatic hit, but that's ultimately just an extra free hit, while having a weapon break is "you're useless now", since in the game where this rule applies, you are most likely to be investing in a single powerful weapon.

5% crit chance as automatic success, with no confirmation or activation cost, is also really stupid.

>>55006456
>since in the game where this rule applies, you are most likely to be investing in a single powerful weapon.

Not really, you're pretty encouraged to have a second weapon unless you're a cleric that has a mandated weapon.

Again the crit would have to be incredibly severe to have a weapon break, I've yet to see it happen. Even if it does it just means you either switch to a backup, unless of course you were only using one weapon period, at which point you kinda get what you asked for. Even then you can pick up a weapon and use it if you meet the requirements, just at a worse proficiency. Most of the time it's just a penalty, you drop your weapon, or the enemy gets an attack on you. Even in the chance of all that you can always go acquire yourself another weapon, or it get it repaired for a steep price, etc. It's not like it just killed your character off. I also disagree that not having confirmations is stupid. The system uses exploding dice so crits have a lot less weight in the system, and the severity of the crit scales according to your damage roll. The most drastic effects being, of course, if you also then get a lot of exploding dice. Then there's still a roll for a value which is modified by it. Hackmaster, by the way. But a lot of people's complaints about these things go out the window since Hackmaster is about being normal dudes on the very arduous path to greatness rather than battle hardened war gods.

>>55006625
>Hackmaster, by the way.
anon, why the fuck didn't you say so earlier?
That's like saying "well in my campaign casters shouldn't be so limited so I did XYZ", arguing with everyone else about caster supremacy and then saying "BTW we play WHFB"

>>55006625
Fuck man, you play hackmaster? Maybe OPEN with that?

It'd be like telling everyone that if they're not making their players track ammo, rations, and light sources they're playing the game wrong, and then not mentioning that the system is Torchbearer.

>>55006747
>>55006795
I've only been part of this conversation for 2 posts and no system was ever specified. I don't really know DnD, Pathfinder, or any of the other big systems at all. But people were speaking in big generalities so I felt it worthwhile to chime in.

>>55006625
And that's reasonable, because a "critical" failure in your system isn't that critical, and it matches your system's themes of an unforgiving world.

In D&D, which is what most people are complaining about, you can have backup weapons to be sure, but it's typically assumed balance-wise that you will be upgrading your weapons, which typically take up much of your character wealth.

I play Fantasycraft myself, so there are options to even remove your ability to critfail under normal conditions by taking certain character options representing extra practice.

What's more, you only critfail if you actually failed, and the GM has to actively decide to activate your failure, which comes at an opportunity cost.

There are also loosely defined rules for level of crit failure. If he spends a single AD, you should only be having a negative impact (besides normal failure) on the scale of losing a half action, while if the GM wants to spend like 4 AD (which represents almost all of his AD in some cases), it could be a big effect like losing several turns, breaking a weapon (which the book warns against since people don't like losing their shit by GM fiat), or etc.

By adding the caveat of also needing to fail, and having an activation cost, or in your system's case, by the sliding scale of crit effects, critical effects are more palatable.

Compare that to a flat 5% chance to break your weapon, every attack. If you attack 3 times in a round (6 seconds), that means that most (more than 50% of) weapons will statistically break after 24 seconds of fighting. In fact, a weapon used like this will have only a 20% chance of not being broken after a minute of fighting.

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>55003102
3/8 chumming the waters like a spaz

>>55007381
wrong thread?

>>54985234
>but in combat I use them as a way to represent the little oddities that occasionally happen
>1/20 = 5%
>Occasionally
>5%
>Pick one

>>55004504
What's wrong with having a chance to fuck up? Also it's not 10% who is saying 10%? I don't think anyone is even saying 5% itt.

Again why are you guys so triggered?

>>55005521
Explain your pain to me. What is wrong with fucking something up?

>Muh 5% chance of a skilled fighter fucking up

It doesn't have to be 5% you know? It could just as easily be .25%. What is wrong with it as an idea?

>>54993515
Our DM has a pretty clever way around this
If you roll a 1 you roll again to see how bad it was, the lower the worse it is. If you roll another one you roll again, and 3 1's in a row is instant death.
He makes it work pretty well, it's good to have degrees of how bad you fucked up rather than it all just being a hodge podge

>>55008987
It's not failure that is the issue, it's GMs who take the opportunity to emasculate the player based on what is actually a fairly likely occurrence.
When I run D&D, a combat roll of 1 is just a miss, no more, a misstep in battle. I've seen others who take the chance to fuck your day up, and it's fairly groan worthy.

>>54973708
>monsters you need to run away from
Trash concept, you're in the wrong here.

>>55003102
I didn't say I create characters with the intent of merely hitting hard and often. I have a story/character archtype I want to play, and I build around that. Or there's a mechanic I think is interesting, and try that.

Do all of your mages also have a spell failure chance at 5% for every spell they cast? If I play a fighter it's because it works thematically.

But everybody wants to be useful. Sure some people are better than others at things, but everybody should be useful in diplomatic situations even if they haven't invested stat-wise, even if just their presence makes things easier. But critical failures punish character types/builds that focus on rolling often, rather than just rolling once and adding a fuckton of bonuses to it (which is mostly in combat).

>Only 73 home runs
But how many times has he fucked up considerably is the question here, how many times has he accidentally let go of the bat and sent it flying? Accidentally redirected the ball into his face? Are you saying home runs are the equivalent of a critical success or a normal one?

>>55004084
How do you quantify a "critical failure" in sports though? Wouldn't they just be regular failures? Unless you're saying Success = Home run, Failure = Anything that's not a home run, Critical Failure = Not being able to play the game. From that guy's description it sounds like a critical failure would be him spraining his wrist mid swing and getting a penalty on the next roll to hit the ball.
Which I'm sure happens, but it's also distinctly less impactful than dropping your weapon/breaking it, and having to move/draw another weapon/pick it up, which some systems punish by not allowing you to split attacks, or with opportunity attacks. Unless I'm severely misunderstood about baseball, the pitcher waits until Barry is ready again before throwing, and doesn't get to keep throwing as fast as he can until three strikes.

>>55004456
I was only curious about the man of spiders scene.
Why wait until the last movie to add in some super agent as his land lord?

>>54992904
>Ever been in a fight anon? Shit happens. You slip on a patch of mud, you fumble your weapon, you fubar. Things happen.

Nobody plays games to be "realistic". We play games to be the hero. Heroes don't have those sorts of fumbles.

And this doesn't even touch the fact that you're imposing your own desires for so-called "realism" over the fun of your players. The fun of your players is the first, last, and only priority a GM should have, and if it's not yours, then you need to stop GMing.

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>BBEG

>>54973708
While it's fine to have such monsters in the game, if you actively throw the PCs in their way just to have them lose, then that's terrible DMing and you should stop doing that.

If the players decide to hunt said monsters and you've shown enough for them to know that said monsters are strong, then kill them or humiliate them for losing, whatever is better in the situation, but you shouldn't punish the players for going with whatever YOU are throwing at them.

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>>54973109
>Player is a total rampaging low ego barb who survived for 8 levels out of sheer luck and a very good cleric in his ass
>Finally dies when he runs headfirst into 3 Ogres wich crit him before the cleric can heal him
>His Barb is now a pencake filled with bonesplinters
>Rolls a bard - the group finds tracks of a snakelike monster constantly visting the village at night and then retreating into a stonepipe which leads into the middle of a dungeon
>His halfling-ass-bard climbs into the pipe and get´s turned into stone by the snakelike being waiting on the other side (it was a medusa), they knew that it could wait on the other side since they found out and said themselves NINE TIMES "this monster is probably pretty smart and sentient"
>He´s like "You don´t reward risky playing!"

>>55004242
i just finished running campaign in question
a combination of me making a too powerful encounter, someone playing a character with zero combat ability who ran away, and shit dice rolls ended up with one person lost in the jungle and an almost TPK.

>>55004242

I did this once when I was slipping into That DM-territory. I had a DMPC "rival party" that attacked them. Same level, but way more minmaxing and shit. After the TPK we just retconned it as a ominous dream and we quickly abandoned the rivals after that.

>They did, however, learn that they can be killed

>>55011700
You mean they learned that if they die they suffer no consequences.

>>55006456
>most likely to be investing in a single powerful weapon.

>not even being a literal armory on legs
>pleb

>>55011734
You generally don't have a plethora of level-appropriate magic weapons.
3.PF also basically demands you pick exactly one type of weapon and use only it or your math doesn't work right and you suck.

>>55009708

>We play games to be the hero.
>Describes playing games with muh feels is hurt if I fail

Play freeform, faggot.

>>55011722

Fuck you, they learned they can die and were more careful and SMRT in the future, still are to this day even though not many character deaths have occurred.

>I know better even if I was not there, bwah

>>55008687
Yeah, because every 20 rolls is a 1

>>54973109
>Player follows the "Unspoken Plan" rule

For those of you unfamiler with this concept, the player trys to do a thing while presenting as little information on what they are doing as possible to the GM. Supposedly, this is so the GM has fewer ways to screw with the plan, but all it really does is make it imposible to figure out what the hell they're even trying to do in the first place.

LARPers need to leave the larp shit behind when they do tabletop.

>>55006212
Pretty much this

>>55000186
>you can open 19/20 doors just fine
>but on 1/20, your limbs fall off and you burst into flames

>>54973109
>be GM
>bard player is a memester, his character is borderline useless
>insisted on increasingly stupid instruments
>started off asking for a piano, except that he wanted to carry it with him everywhere he went
>got to asking for a modern day solar powered electric keyboard
>i gave him a magic instrument that can only be played in the sun
the bard became even more useless now that he can't play songs inside dungeons

>>55012595

desu, I never understood the whole thing of "play instruments during battle to buff your friends". Seems kinda weird, why not just have spells like normal magicians?

>Griping about not getting logic behind things in fantasy games
>sorrynotsorry

>>55012693
this is the man who spent all his starting item options on darts so he can play a 10 dex bard that fights by throwing darts at people

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>>54992503
>stage 2 crit means double damage
that's called confirming a crit
>Stage 3 something in the order of hitting two enemies
that's called a feat you can take
>chain reaction of attack nullifying calamity
so you're forcing your players to make rolls to be intelligent combatants instead of just interacting with their environment like they normally could
>stage 4 would be insta kill or lose half HP
i can't even take you seriously anymore. you're replacing tried and tested methods of doing crits and replacing it with some arbitrary ruleset you implemented that has no way of melding with the system in any way that makes sense. you're literally fixing a problem that never existed and fucking it up beyond recognition. this has to be one of the worst ways of homebrewing a system I have ever seen. there is nothing reasonable about these consequences and no way to legitimately justify the bonuses
You are the physical manifestation of all those "well I rolled a 20 so I can do everything" greentexts. you just need to roll enough 20's apparently

How do yoy handle players having big back stories?

>>55013217

If they're too big, as in 27 pages for a one-shot, just ask them to tone it down to like one page. Maybe recommend they keep the full story for a character for a proper campaign.

If it's too long, and it's a proper campaign, ask them to give the main points in a condensed form, and tell them nothing on the backstory actually applies until they tell you that somehow, in-game. Without it being a five-hour monologue, obviously.

>>55009708
>Heroes don't have those sorts of fumbles.
Yes, they do. All the fucking time. Read a book, nigger.

>>55004456
This scene always felt oddly out of place.

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>ITT: Autists can't handle the idea of a crit fail for some reason

>>55016122
I think people have good reason for not liking them.
Auto-success and auto-fails just aren't fun. They rob you of the uniqueness of characters. When some low-int schlub rolls on the same Arcane knowledge skill as the Wizard and gets a 20, how does the Wizard player feel when the stupid Barbarian who literally cannot even read somehow knows as much as him about the workings of magic?

It's just a goofy idea that strains the sensibility of the game near to breaking.

>>54981520
+2 Weapons on first sesh? Sounds sketchy.

You should've gone to the guards and told them that the shopkeep just violated property rights and engaged in vandalism.

That would've messed up that asshole GM real good.

>>54973708
>This happens
>Try to flee
>Turns out monster moves faster, like way faster
>Die due constantly being pounced while escaping and AoO for fleeing

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>>55017714
I tend to think of them as more worst and best case scenarios, rather than autofail or autosucceed. So maybe the wizard never read the specific book the bit of information was in (or he played hooky that day when it was part of the lecture) and the illiterate barbarian knows the info because he happened to hear it told as a story in his numerous travels.

The rules don't have to be followed to the letter, you know.

>>55018378
>I tend to think of them as more worst and best case scenarios
This is the best way, imo. They should be "pretty bad luck" and "pretty good luck", thinking of them as auto-whatevers is how we get le epic greentexts where the party barb suplexes a dragon and the rogue stabs himself through the head with a lockpick because he rolled a nat 1 while trying to open a chest. Sure some people enjoy that level of wacky shit but most of the time it doesn't really fit all that well and you can tweak them to be at whatever level suits the adventure.

>>55017714
Assuming D&D, read the fucking rules, lad. There are skills you can't roll if you aren't trained in it and there are no auto successes for skill checks. It's really only supposed to apply to attack rolls.

That said, sometimes a character ideal for a certain situation fails and another one gets lucky with their rolls. You can always write that off, too. The barbarian's tribe passed down a myth that turned out to be true that the wizard had heard before and dismissed as superstition, etc.

>>54978136
That was actually was one of my players once. I loved fucking with him.

>Party kills a kobold group
>Bard finds a buckler shield made of dragon scales and equips it
>Lizard rogue guy wants it and tries to steal it while it's on the bard's arm
>Awkward encounter where lizard guy is grabbing at shield while saying mine
>Latter on he ends up in a cave system and lizard guy is holding a dragon egg in front of a dragon

Another time he kills some sleeping nobles and steals from a demigod and is turned into a niglet as a consequence

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>>54973109
>Start new group
>Everyone seems cool
>Roll characters as a group
>Ranger, Cleric, Fighter
>Asmodeus Worshipper dressed in bondage gear with a whip who is 'chaotic neutral'

I thought I was done with high school, but it found me again

>>55004181
Fuck you Curtis I know this is you!

>create an intricate dungeon where each room teleports them to different bios so they can see new creatures they would normally never see.
>Most pcs go into the rooms and have a wacky time>
>Except the "doom" druid
>This character's whole point is to spread the word of doom since he knows it's coming
>So does literally everyone else
>Druid says fuck magic rooms and stays in the main lobby
>After awhile he goes back to town while the party is exploring the dungeon in order to spread doom
>Have to create random encounters off the top of my head which are clearly a cut below what the dungeon explorers are doing.
>Druid says after the ses that he wasn't having fun

Why do players do this just to be special?

The thing is too that he is a good friend of mine so I couldn't be a complete dick to him, but I did railroad him a bit.

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>>54993011
Not every GM and every player want the same things out of games (and that's ok). My first suggestion is to simply find the players that want to play the sort of game you want to run, but barring that, if you really want to discourage him or properly challenge him there are ways.

>always sneaking around corners
Let him sneak around the corners anon. Eventually there will be something very unpleasant around the corner, that was just waiting to ambush the party.

>saying it should count as still having line of sight
Line of sight works both ways or not at all, like a mirror. If you need to, you can have enemies ready an action to attack as soon as they see him.

>"I ready a firebolt spell if the npc does anything hostile whatsoever before we engage combat"
Playing a paranoiac is fine. Adventurers tend to be quite a bit nutty to be in their chosen profession. Still, there are consequences and it can still blow up, sometimes a completely innocent person can do something that appears threatening and then your paranoiac is suddenly wanted by the law for assault or murder.

>stealing everything from anybody
Thieves are part of the game. Nothing wrong with looting (though truly valuable things are hard to fence). But nobody is foolproof, eventually someone will catch the theft, which will turn into murder or summoning of guards and could be a fun chase scene. Even playing a wanted criminal can be engaging and interesting. Finally, if he's caught, tried by court, you can always brand him as a thief, or chop off a few fingers and give him his new nickname "the halfhand"

>>55020310
>or chop off a few fingers
The best part is he's well on his way to becoming a proper pirate with a hook.

>>54973708
The problem I have with this kind of mentality is that it can often be really hard to gauge what is and isn't a fight the players can win before you get stuck in with it. How the fuck am I supposed to tell a CR4 demon from a CR16 demon by description alone without having read the MM beforehand? They're both big scary monster things, but I'm supposed to go "the creature made of shadow and hate is a chump, but watch out for the big snake lady!" I have to rely on the DM telling me that this monster looks pretty tough while wiggling his eyebrows at me and pretend that I'm being really clever by avoiding it. Nevermind the problem of actually escaping after biting off more than I can chew. I'd rather TPK than the DM handwave our escape once we tap out.

>>55000320
You are a massive faggot. Think about that.

>>54973109
>Any time any NPC shows a bit of competence or initiative, one particular player starts creaming about DMPCs and how it's terrible and why should they even bother if there are all these people ready to be the big heroes?
>Sometimes this even extends to NPCs the group has hired to do a specific task for them.

>>55009708
I'll take that as a "no" to the "Ever been in a fight?" question.
>Bawwww I just wanna be a hero!!
>Heroes never mess up!!!
>W-why can't it just be EASY?
>DM p-please the players' fun is the MOST important! You can't let my guy miss an attack or hurt his bum on the ground!

>>55017714

>skill crits
>autism

>>55019096
Railroading is justified when you have a player being a complete fuckwit. The door out should've just been "mysteriously closed" when he tried to leave, or he should've walked into some group of shit tier bandits starting to set up an ambush outside of something. Freedom is fine and all but trying to purposefully fuck off from where you know the content is is just being an asshole, especially with the rest of the party already engaged in said content.

I don't think there's anything wrong with crit fails, it doesn't just represent errors by the character but could be anything. There's a lot of moving parts in a battlefield. However since a crit is effectively an extra attack I don't think a fail should be any worse than a round's worth of action / attack. I would only really see something really bad happening on like 2 fails on a disadvantage roll or something.

>>55020310
good advice

>>55019096
"Alright, your druid goes back to town. Now make a new character who is willing to do what the rest of the party is doing."

>this many people defending crit fails
Jesus

Posted it in the player gripes but now thinking about it the players bother me more than the DM

>Join a campaign in the middle of it
>everyone is lvl 5 almost lvl 6
>they have 3 magic items (for the 3 of them, one player A uses 2, player B uses 1 and player C 0)
>They decided to do it this way because they like to optimize the party and don't care about fairness, they also put all the gold in a common treasury and buy items for the person who needs it the most
>wtf is this communism? no personal ambition?
>I challenge the DM and other players on this, I call on their shitty metagame munchkin
>A player tells me that they are good alignment characters trying to save the continent, of course that they will share like that when their "whole existance is at stake"
>okay whatever, I ask the DM if I start with a magic item because they have 3
>DM says no
>mfw I'm lvl 5 and I don't have magic items but the rest of the party does
>mfw players think D&D is some sort of computer game where you optimize your character above all

I'm thinking of leaving the game, this lack of ambition seems like lack of roleplay and metagamey to me and the fact that everyone has magic items but is such shitty favouritism

>>55025844
You just joined, maybe the DM will give you one soon. Also if they are all fine with it and having fun, you should leave. it does seem kinda shit, but you are being way worse.

>>55025844
Party treasuries aren't really a bad idea though, they work well a lot of the time and prevent OOC butthurt.

It's not like it squashes RP potential because you still have to decide as a group what the money will be spent on.

Also sounds like you just expected a magic item upon joining just because they had them already? I think your views on this are twisted rather than the other way around.

>>55020605
This is only an issue if the DM doesn't make it blatantly, immediately, unambiguously obvious that the monster is above your paygrade. The entire concept of CR and modern encounter design is also an issue, as "monsters you flee from" used to be an expected part of gameplay when combat was a deterrent and not the main mean of character advancement plus the bulk of mechanical complexity in the system. Now you get people like >>55009219 who think it is bad gameplay if you can't beat everything up

>>55025844
>Get ridiculed in player gripes thread
>Go complain in DM gripes thread
You're a fucking joke

>>55026157
No-one ridiculed me, it was one guy samefagging because he was butthurt munchkin.

>>55000231
>i choke 1/20 times I take a drink
wait hold on

File: (´･ω･｀) 2.jpg (31KB, 636x515px) Image search: [Google]

31KB, 636x515px

>>55025844

>>55025844
>>55025933
There is nothing wrong with party treasuries on the ground of "hey these guys are watching my back and helping me not die, they can use these items better than I can, might as well let them have it."

>>54985234
I implement a simple secondary table if you crit hit 1 standard damage die, 2-15 you roll double die, 16-19 max for one die roll the other, 20 max for both. On a crit fail 1 you drop/break weapon(gm choice), 2-9 ally within 5 ft(from you if melee, from target if ranged) is struck roll attack, 10-20 just a plain miss.

>>55025844

>Complains about munchkins
>Complains when not allowed to munchkin

Yeah okay there Harry Two-Face

>>55026642

I choke on 1/20 dicks I swallow