Horus Heresy General /hhg/

What custom models have you made for your armies, anons? I'm working on some Chainblade Adsec counts-as at the moment, although I'm running out of Kataphron arms and heads to convert them with. My Bitz Box will be pretty empty for infantry conversions for a while after this, although I may have enough for my Archmagos.

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>>54972627
Well, plenty, but with a busted index finger I can't really paint or build for shit, so I'm taking a break.

>>54971996
TS are of course extremely powerful and, if psychic stuff is what you like, go for them. I'm not very interested in that (and I don't particularly care for their fluff, nor that of SW) so I haven't really given the matter any real consideration.

I like most Legions though the ones I prefer are the ones I mentioned, so if you choose one of those let me know and we can start discussing building lists and how your rules, your RoW and what you can afford alters your playstyle, and what units might be most suited for it.

>>54972627
I want some base for making my own recon armour, I dislike SM scouts though.

It should be noted that Pride of the Legion is a pretty bad Rite of War. It's part of what makes SoH so good: they're able to get Vets as troops with a cheapass character instead of their Rite of War slot.

>>54972833
Scion legs, some plain MkVII torso, scout arms and a skitarii backpack with hanging cables cut off. Could make something similar to old Wolf Scouts.

>>54972734
How about the Death Guard? As mentioned I've got a calth boxset to start with. I could probably use the heavy bolters to convert the cataphractii to grave wardens. Is running the Death Guard specific rite of war 'the reaping' good or should I be looking to the generic rites of war? With the legion marines I'd have to take two compulsory troop choices(legion tactical I guess? should they be min 10 or max 20?) but then would have access to vet tacticals and heavy support squads as troops.
I always seem to see contemptors with both weapons the same. With Death Guard being not so assault oriented this seems like a better option, so I'll have to source some extra Contemptor ranged weapons.
Is this a decent start or am I missing something glaring?

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Anyone got any tips for imperial militia lists?
I'm running the standard cheese of survivors of the dark age and warrior elite army its centered around 3 max units of grenadiers with rotet canons all shooting at S4, 2 units of grenadiers in rhinos, and one max unit of AP3 autocannons

Wondering what else you guys would suggest, I usually run a couple demolishers for termies and a battery of laser destroyers for thick armour, thinking about getting another unit of laser destroyers for obvious armour vulnerability, also probably will throw my void shield generator into larger games for gunline protection

Also side note I have a thunderbolt on the way and plan on getting a second one eventually, how do they do?

>>54973341
Reaping is fine. You can stuff Heavy Support Squads into Troops to make more room for Grave Wardens and tanks, you get Rad Grenades, so you're better in CC, and you get Move Through Cover, so lay that Phosphex thick, my friend, you have no problems walking through it. It's also a good rite to have some assault marines and bikers, as they can use cover better (no Dangerous Terrain tests).

>>54973622
I thought the traitor provenances with mass levies was the cheese option.

Gorgon or two would be of use. I'd use Malcadors over Russes. A pimped out Malcador is not that more expensive than a Russ and a Demolisher, but has a lot better odds of surviving and do some damage.

>>54973693
A malcador pimped out with siege armour and a void shield costs just as much as two pimped out russes
May eventually buy two because they are beast, but for now it's a money limitation
I see malacadors in almost every militia list, are they really that good? Because on paper they seem to be fantastic

>Levi's and cult hoards
Yeah I mean I'm playing "cheap S3 T3 space marines with better guns" cheese, not "I want to be shunned by everyone at my game store" cheese

>>54973850
Flair shield* malcadors cannot take void shields lol

>>54972627
Pls post pics.

>>54973850
Malcador:
>Battlecannon, Demolisher Cannon, Lascannon sponson
>Flare Shield, Armoured Ceramite, Siege Armour
340pts.

Russ squadron:
>MBT, hull lascannon
>Demolisher, hull lascannon
320pts.

Same guns, but the Malcador can fire all of its guns and at different targets, has extra protection on the front and is immune to Melta.

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>>54974135
Damn what a beast, I'll be buying one in the next couple months
that is if my 30k scene doesn't start to decay

>>54974135
Also side note does the battle canon malcador even come with a demolisher or will I need to kitbash it?

>>54973879
Hang on, let me clear up and have the latest one dry and sure. They take forever to do, since I need to take a base model, remove a fuckton of Tzeench bits and decoration, slice off some of the armour plates and all the usual flaws, cut and realign a Kataphron arm to go on the right shoulder and then greenstuff on heads, cybernetic arms and get the Kataphron claws together. Been working on them for three days and I've only finished 7/20.

>>54974294
Not that I'm aware of. I'd probably buy the Annihilator variant, since it's easier to fit a battle cannon into the casemate than try and fit a demolisher into the hull mount.

>>54974503
Why does HH like making rules for models or weapon options that don't exist? I guess they think the fan base is that kitbashing and conversion savvy?

>>54974364
Alright, I'm looking forward to see pics. Will you kit bash a wacky Magos as well?

I'm currently washing the metals on my IW tyrants.

>>54974572

Thats not a stretch for a customer base that has to shave, clean, and even repair its FW kits.

>>54974572
But they do. Lascannon casemate and demolisher hull is a valid loadout as much as battle cannon casemate and hull autocannon/lascannon.

Why do they like it? I dunno, why would a company make it so that people have to buy two kits?

The malcador was made in different iterations. There was the defender with 5 heavy bolters on top. Then there was the variant with the battle cannon and lastly the annihilator variant with the demolisher hull gun. Each was its own vehicle (like how godhammer, crusader and redeemer are for the Land Raider). It wasn't until 30k that you could just field one variant with all the options.

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>>54974696
Here's the current gang of zombots. These were pretty experimental but I think I've got the pattern down now. Ones with shoulderpads I decided look a little janky, so the newer ones have them removed.

Going to run out of Kata heads after two more, so they'll be a mix of skittles and Ruststalkers from then on. Probably going to do one more Wolverine-pattern guy and mix in some Thunder Hammers and Arc Mauls with the rest.
There will be a custom Archmagos with them, whether I start him soon depends on how much spare toy money I wind up with on my birthday after paying for car stuff.

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>>54974946
Side/back views featuring crappy greenstuffing, but hopefully when they're painted it'll look more like scar tissue around the augments.

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Time to make a Sister of Silence Centura

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>>54975467
>posting AOS in /hhg/

>>54975722
At worst, use the head and legs. I plan to mix pieces ofher with Celestine and her Geminae to make a centerpiece commander.

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>>54972586

How many points make for a 'normal' 30k game? Is there a tournament standard?
And what FAQ are we using? Do we do the last one for 7th, or the earlier one on the FW website?
Where do we stand on how many Meltabombs we can use?

>>54975823
Your average game of 30k is 2.5k to 3k.

Use the last one for 7th.

Isn't the last instance we heard per model if an entire squad can buy them?

>that moment when the whitescars book is an eternity from now

Kill me.

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>>54975467
Just what I needed at this hour... fappin' time.

>>54976258
But that's every moment.
That said, couldn't /hhg/ put it's heads together to come up with some WS rules?

>>54976877
No dreadnoughts as a legion rule.
RoW that makes bikes compulsory Troops and all other units must take a transport.

>>54975722
>Posting in /hhg/ when HH is a dying game

>>54972845
>It should be noted that Pride of the Legion is a pretty bad Rite of War.
I don't think it's ever bad! Veterans and Terminators are more points efficient than pretty much all of the usual Troops choices, so it consistently works well unless you want a lot of vehicles.

The Sons of Horus Veterans maximize the rite's benefits due to their legion rules, so yeah, they're even better with it. But it's one of the top rites along with Orbital Assault, Armored Breakthrough, and probably the jetbike one.

>>54973341
>I always seem to see contemptors with both weapons the same.
Those are Contemptor-Mortis dreads, usually used as anti-air that's cheaper (and significantly less effective) than Deredeos.

If they're near your infantry, especially Termies, they're fine. Alone, they're too easy to tarpit in close combat. That's the reason you don't see many shooty-only Leviathans anymore, too.

>>54976877
>>54976934
We have perfectly fine WS rules (that maybe need a little cleaning up), what we need are unique units.

>>54976877

>homebrew rules
>usable in games

pick one

Speaking of WS, I just noticed how their power glaives just shit all over phoenix and guardian spears. Pretty impressive.

So I've heard custodians are pretty much game breaking, is this accurate? How do they do against massed numbers like militia or solar auxilia?

>>54977138

>Some form of guerilla troop
>Badass bullock pattern jetbike squadron

Gimme it.

>>54977460
Militia can beat everything because Zealot and Rending are incredible but yeah, Custodes are fantastic against legion armies.

>>54977460
Shittily, just like they do against flyers.
Custodes have one overpowered, undercosted tank and undercosted jetbikes, beyond that they are basically limited to brutalizing small elite forces as they lack the volume of damage to deal with hordes or vehicles reliably.

>>54977460
They brawl like motherfuckers and can tank stupid amounts of damage, but they have glaring weaknesses. They can't deal well with hordes, 2+ saves trouble them, they have no AA at all and handling objectives is kind of a crapshoot.
Mind you, all of that goes right out the window when you bring their floaty doom tank that costs pennies and rips apart just about anything.

>>54975467
Female stormcast eternals makes sense from a lore perspective I guess, but if GW tries this SJW shift into 40k with femarines people will go apeshit

I 10/10 approve of GW giving the sisters of silence an army tho.

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So I started 40k right at the tail end of 7th with Skitarii, so I never got to see how it really played. What was so bad about ot that it's apparently going to be the death of HH? I've seen bits of the options that some of 7th's armies had, especially Renegades and Imperial cults for HH, and they seem way more interesting than their 8th ed showing, so what's up with 7th?

>>54977460
If you're Marines and haven't packed a whole bunch of armour, prepare for a royal ass-fucking since their whole army can deepstrike and hack you apart with S5 AP3 Rending basic melee on T5 W2 Terminators. Against Solar Auxilia they struggle if the Dracosans and such are properly bubblewrapped, and against Ordo Reductor with their tides of artillery, cheap cover-reducing Haywire, Intercepting big guns and cheap Fearless 4+ Sv. tarpits they're perhaps their worst off.
They do decently against Cybernetica since basically nobody gets armour saves in melee and the AP3 maulers bounce off them while they can fish for ID Heliothermic kills, but they still struggle to wound reliably and the enemy will probably still have the Adsec tarpits. Basically nobody is dying any time soon.

Against Militia with their 50-man Zealot Rending blobs and cheap tonks they're completely fucked unless they brought Aquilons kitted precisely for that job, which are kinda hyperspecialised.
My "Fuck You Bananas" list that I only use when I really want something dead is Ordo Reductor artillery grav Interceptor fuckfest feat. Droplites, allied to 100 of the aforementioned Militia Levies, although to be fair that does a good job at killing pretty much anything.

Unless the Custodes bring nothing but the massively undercosted Caladii and jetbikes, plus maybe a Telemon or two and probably the new dropship when the retarded thing is released, led by the 3++ rerollable 4W EW Captain with a bunch of S10 melee. Then pretty much everyone is completely fucked by cheap units of W2 T6 2+ bikes with two lascannons or a multishot AP2 ID gun each and massively buffed Sicarans.

Currently their most obvious and easily exploited weakness is a severe lack of anti-air, so Raven Guard and similar do very well. Given the new flyer appears to have two of the Caladius anti-armour cannon as wing mounts, that probably won't last too long.

Fucking why can't apothecaries have other power weapon options besides swords? I want to make my apothecaries double as Speakers of the Dead for larger games (to fill in that mandatory 1 HQ per 1000pts.) but apothecaries can only have swords and Speakers of the Dead have mauls.

Would using something like a thunder hammer shaft with some backpack icon/standard top on the end of it as a "icon of office" while the model carried a sheathed sword on their belt work?

What legion lets me nuke and forever fuck up my opponent?

>>54975467
shes a bit too big to use as a non augmented human no?
Its a good head though, I can use that.

>>54978117
The 7th edition core rules are basically fine - it's what Horus Heresy is currently running. The problem was the formation based army building that GW started to go nuts for around the time Necrons came out. Like, Skitarii had a great formation that was only in a White Dwarf and required formations from three different armies to get massive, incredible bonuses. So 7th edition became pay to win, effectively. On top of this, it became a nightmare to balance and remember, because you didn't just need to know a few USRs and your army special rules, you needed to know each individual's formation rules, the Decurion-level rules, and all your opponents' rules as well, because the formation rules didn't overlap. Horus Heresy immediately became an escape for everybody burned out on the mess that 7th edition became.

However, Horus Heresy was having (and continues having) its own problems. Release timetables were frequently delayed, models were made seemingly at random (Rogal Dorn still doesn't have a model for instance). I think Inferno really burned a lot of people out because it was like every FW problem condensed into one book: it had been delayed for months, the balance was poor, there were editing problems, and the power creep was absolutely insane. Compare Magnus and the Sekhmet to any other legion's equivalent and see if it feels fair.

When 8th edition came out, HH died almost overnight because they had gotten rid of what people really hated about 7th, began offering the core rules for free, and started that rapid-fire errata and FAQ process. They turned over a new leaf and people went crazy for it. Now Alan Bligh is dead and the next planned release is over a year away. HH might not be totally dead by then but it's definitely got one foot in the grave.

>>54978377
Well, that seems rough. Thing is, I decided that for 8th I'd go ahead and try a new army for it, Heretics and Renegades. I don't know if you've seen their rules, but they don't allow anywhere near the customization I hoped for after hyping myself up reading Siege of Vraks, and seeing the rules for Militia in HH looks alot like what I had wanted, yet it seems there's no community for HH around here to justify starting. I guess my rebel army will just have to be fluff for now. Oh well, at least we have Primaris marines.

>>54978377

>That moment when you get into the horus heresy just as it starts its downward decline.

Well fuck me.

>>54978152
>allied to 100 of the aforementioned Militia Levies
What models do you use for your levies?

>>54978837
it is the same for me.

>>54978355
I'm worried about that too. If the legs or torso work with SoS models I'm super down. If not I can make something work.

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Custodes are done and while I wait for their next stuff to become available it's time to paint some Fists.

>>54977806
>2 female models for AOS Stormcast Eternals
>is SJW

You're actually retarded, jumping at bogey men, desperate to win a culture war as some kind of crusader for idiocy.

>>54977056
congrats on hitting the nail on the head, its a bad RoW because its better then any alternative at anytime.

>>54978301
geez I don't know, maybe the chemical warfare legion?

>>54979439
Vampire Counts Ghouls, with the odd cybernetic part here and there in the units to jazz them up a little. Did think about clanrats, but they don't really have the right look despite being really damn cheap.

>>54978837
>>54979473
It's not as bad as most anons here make it seem. Even at it's highpoint, whether you would be able to find a Heresy community in your area was largely up to chance. Groups of players with the budget and experience to collectively build and play 3+k HH armies are by their nature a rarity. The FW HH rules have never been pushed at GW stores and almost everyone who started out with HH at least had some experience with 40k.

Whether or not you will find someone to do 30k with depends largely on the same factors as it did one or two years ago. The most important one being your own social skills.

For myself: There's a group of roughly 15 people around my local store who have all built a 3k HH army. The last couple of months a lot of people want to try out the new 8th edition 40k rules so were doing a campaign for that, but we already have 2 other HH events planned this year. Probably going to do a new HH campaign in 2018.

>>54978754
Customization will happen if/once they get a codex. For armies using an index, it's early days yet. Similar thing happened when 3rd edition came out.

Build a 40k army that can mostly be ported over to HH, and listen to the HH podcasts to learn about events near you.

>>54977460
I second this post >>54978152.
You can build a Custodes army that isn't broken, by avoiding those shields, the medium grav-tank, the large dread, and the jetbikes. Or least not taking enough of those to carry the army. Normal Custodes with spears aren't considered too bad, nor the Termies or especially the heavy support guys with heavy bolter-like weapons.

>>54978244
You can upgrade the Speaker of the Dead's bolt pistol to a power sword (you'd still have the maul though).

>>54973341
This looks fine. Strictly speaking, there isn't anything you "should" do. Depending on what direction you want to take the army in, most things work with a little bit of work for... any Legion, really.

DG rules lend themselves quite well for infantry blobs, what with them being very strong morale-wise. If you want to play "The Reaping" I would recommend 2x minimum squads of tacticals with rad-grenades and combi-flamers for the Sergeants. Usually I'm a fan of large blobs of tacticals/assault marines, but 1) your RoW lends itself well to using other, more expensive units instead and 2) at the moment your model count is somewhat limited.

The remaining 10 guys I would build as a HW support squad. Consider buying, sculpting or converting heavy flamers for them - 10 heavy flamers with Shred will annihilate most any infantry in the game through sheer amount of wounds caused, and charging that unit won't be terribly attractive either.

Grave Wardens are great, though I can't remember if they were over-costed or not. You'll want the chem-flamer, of course.

At this point your army will destroy infantry of all flavours with flamer death or power fists in melee, so you'll probably want to give your Contemptor the multi-melta. I can't remember if a Contemptor can upgrade it's heavy flamer with chem-munitions, but obviously, if it can do that, go for it.

This is a list that'll struggle against tanks and flyers, so you might want to consider getting some anti-air/more anti-tank.

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>>54978301
>>54984340
What about the Legion that nuked the Salamanders and their Primarch to ashes?

>>54985469
death guard do all the chemical stuff better then the IW (including fun warcrime flamers) while the IW's one party trick is that they don't run, and that their dusa's are more accurate, otherwise anything IW can do warcrimewise the DG can do (harder)

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>>54985881
Warcrimes are wasteful though. You don't see IW walking through phospex to show off how much shit they can take, and they're smart enough not to paint their armour like used toilet paper.

>>54985924
they don't walk through phosophex because they're busy dying to imperial fists in a stupid fight for the title of "maximum retard" at the iron cage. or getting shreked by the fists at phall. the deathguard has no humiliating defeats in its history, and while morty is a sack of hypocrisy at least he does not have autism.

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>>54986018
Literally the entire history of the Death Guard is a humiliating defeat. Their entire schtick is that they're tough enough to survive their retard-tier grasp of strategy and tactics. No-one likes them other than the Sons of Horus, and that's just because their space-dads were friendly. They aren't even on good terms with the Mechanicum. They got shit on by the Salamanders at Isstvan (who were then nuked by the Iron Warriors), they got space-AIDS on the way to Terra, they failed to do anything noteworthy during the Siege itself, and since then they've accomplished all of jack shit. It took Abaddon ripping a tear in the face of the galaxy to get their asses in motion.

Meanwhile, the Iron Warriors near-single handedly shattered the Salamanders, made it possible for the Traitors to even reach Terra with their mastery of organisation, supply lines and garrisons, brought down the walls of the Imperial Palace, didn't flee straight to the Eye of Terror after Horus popped it (unlike the DG), corrupted new Astartes to Chaos/treason for the first time after the HH, built the daemonculaba and in general are the most organised Legion.

http://www.blacklibrary.com/all-products/grandfathers-gift-ebook.htm

So Guy Haley is writing the Doom of the Death Guard. How do you feel about that?

>>54985924
>>54986159
Yeah decimating your own legion is real efficient

>>54986491
It is when you have the pure geneseed and the organisational skills to compensate. Only the Ultramarines and pre-Rangdan DA were ever more numerous, and this is taking the Iron Warriors often very high casualties into account.

>>54986348
Interesting. I just finished the short story. It shows how the Realm of Chaos makes mockery of linear time.

Also it as funny seeing Mort and Ku'gath debate magic.

>>54986555
>actually trying to defend Perty's decimation
wooow

>>54986555
>Kill 1 in 10 of your own men
>Gain no benefit
>this is somewhow a good thing
Iron Warriors everybody!

>>54986159
>near-single handedly shattered the Salamanders
Where exactly are you getting this from?

>>54986719
During the dropsite massacre the Iron Warriors nuked the Salamanders and killed most of them, including their Primarch - it didn't stick with him, though.

>>54986702
>No benefit
It changed the spirit of the Legion from workhorse to anything for victory, which was precisely what he wanted. Depending on how Astartes psychology works (if it's like ours) it probably made them more inclined to follow orders as well, since the survivors would have considered themselves bound by guilt to each other.

>>54986802
they nuked Vulkan yes, but there's nothing to say that that killed more Sallies than the Death Guard or any other traitor legion did, you're reaching here.

>>54986802

>Decimating your legion to so they do what you want

Perty fans everyone. I thought I was bad as a NL player.

>>54986829
I'm not sure where I first read it, but their wiki article mentions that:

"Battle Companies followed in the wake of their lords, captains roaring the attack as thousands of green-armoured warriors chased up the slope to kill the sons of Perturabo. Withering crossfire from both the north and south faces of the Urgall Depression cut down hundreds in the first few seconds of deceit. The XVIII Legion was shedding warriors like a snake sheds scales. But still they drove on, determined not to back down. Tenacity was a Salamander's greatest virtue -- that refusal to give in. Upon the plains of Istvaan V, against all of those guns, this quality almost ended the XVIII Legion. Only as the majority of the Salamanders crested the first ridge, did they first see the arc of fire. It trailed, long and blazing, into the darkling sky. The tongue of flame climbed and upon reaching the apex of its parabola bent back on itself into the shape of a horseshoe. Rockets screaming, it came down in the midst of the charging Salamanders and broke them apart."

"... As a bell jar shatters when dropped onto rockcrete from a great height, so too did the Legion smash apart. "

"...In a single devastating strike, the Lord of Iron had crippled the XVIII Legion, severed its head and sent its body into convulsive spasm. Retreat was the only viable strategy remaining. Droves fell back to the dropsite, trying to climb aboard ships that were surging desperately into the sky to outreach the terrible storm of betrayal below. It was not a rout, though for any force other than the Legiones Astartes it would have been, faced with such violence. Many were cut down as the traitors threaded the air with enough flak to wither an armada."

>>54986885
You're confusing a fondness for the IV Legion and an understanding of just what the decimation accomplished for me liking Perturabo. I dislike him just as I dislike all the Primarchs.

>>54986889
>40kWiki
>no citations
great

>>54986932
>actually thinking decimation is a good idea
well you already sound as stupid as Perturabo.

>>54987015
1D4chan says
"His first death occurred during the Drop Site Massacre, where the Iron Warriors launched a tactical nuclear missile at the Salamanders, killing Vulkan and the bulk of the XVIII Legion"

Lexicanum says "During the battle the majority of the Salamanders Legion was killed by nuclear missiles fired from the Iron Warriors" and cites "Vulkan lives" as source, so yes. Pretty great.

>>54987070
>Not even reading what I wrote
Who sounds stupid? Real-life decimations occurred in the Roman empire to swiftly punish large groups of soldiers (in this case, for not being the very best Legion), and while I can't quote any scientific sources for this plenty of authors toy with the idea of decimations having a very interesting effect on the survivors, namely making them feel bound to each other and to their officers, a la "It wasn't ME who did the thing, I was just following orders, blame them".

Personally I don't think it was a good idea, but it is an INTERESTING idea, and it helps give the Iron Warriors some of that ancient Mediterranean flavour they share with the Ultramarines and the World Eaters.

>>54987170
The reason you can't quote any scientific sources is because its bullshit, Decimation is not an "effective" techinique, its pointless and there's no evidence it would improve troop quality. Due to the random nature of choosing who dies its more likely to reduce quality as skilled veterans are just as likely to be killed.

You can argue thats its a very characterful thing for the Iron Warriors, I'd agree with that, but it's silly to argue it actually had a benefit.

>>54972627
custom master of signals, primus medicae, praevian, chaplain, shemet terminators and praetor

>>54987275
Fair enough, but I wasn't talking about their quality in terms of skill and experience, but rather morale and dedication.

Not sure where I got the idea in the first place, I think the Russians in World War Z do something like that?

Like you said it seems like a very IW thing to do, to calculate the benefit of more bodies vs completely changing the culture of the Legion.

>>54986159
>No-one likes them other than the Sons of Horus
That's not true, Curze liked Mortarion. See the allies chart.

>>54987334
I would point out that several Primarchs managed to change their legion's culture without killing one tenth of it, but as you say, its very IW.

>>54987356
They managed to change the culture of their Legion but, as far as I can rememberm there was always this tension between Terran culture and that of the new recruitment world. Perturabo mostly skipped introducing Olympian stuff, right? In as far as cultural references or how the Legion operates, I mean.

That's an interesting point actually, the Fourth seem more cohesive than many other Legions like the Raven Guard, Dark Angels or White Scars. There are other cohesive Legions of course, do we know what factors decide this? I want to say that it can't just be the personality of the Primarch, but considering their authority and how long time they had to work with their Legions, it might be.

>>54987354
Isn't the ally chart more crunch than fluff? I can't remember ever reading anything about them liking each other or working together.

Although... both Primarchs have a lot in common.

>>54987422
>>54987354
If I'm not mistaken, I'm under the impression the the allies chart is how well the Legions got along, not the Primarch. But even then though that should be taken lightly though.

Wasn't there a book where Abaddon and some Luna Wolves make mention of how they liked the Thousand Sons but yet the ally chart has them as distrusted?

>>54986348
Fine, because he's above average.
Also cynical because he's the fastest writer they have and can shit out a book in 3 months and usually has 2 or 3 on the go at any one time.

>>54987501
Brosis T'Kar was battle-buddies with the Mournival, it said nothing about the wider Legion relationship.
The TS sent their senior officers out on secondment to other legions to get experience of how they operated and probably to plant Hidden Ones fuck the police, individuals had differing experiences.

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>>54987501
Abaddon and several others were bros with the guy, Brosis T'kar. He btfo-d Custodes in personal melees, also almost killed Valdor.

>>54987587
>>54987604
I really want to do Luna Wolves and Thousand Sons, but the ally chart makes that really difficult which is sad. A close friend of mine really reminds me of the Thousand Sons as a whole

Also, what book is that info from though? Was it something out of Inferno?

>>54987422
Certainly the Fists managed to avoid that tension and focus on cohesion, but thats part of their shtick, "division is weakness" after all.

As I recall the Iron Hands and Ultras also didn't have much of a terran divide, but I'm less certain of that.

>>54987959
Thousand Sons by McNeill, check the lexicanum article for T'Kar.

>>54987965
I don't remember if the Terran EC died out because of cancer or not, but you don't hear a lot about any tensions there. Salamanders, Alpha Legion, World Eaters and maybe Word Bearers are some other Legions I can't recall hearing any trouble from on that front, though I imagine most Terrans would have been purged in the decades leading up to the Heresy in the WB.

>>54988284
There wasn't nearly enough terran samamanders able to bitch about the change of culture

>>54988284
EC were allways GLORIOUS.

No real difference there.

>>54987604
>Valdor only killed him because he let him as he realized he had become the monster
He truly was to good for this world

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THE GREAT DEBATE
Plumes on Cataphractii terminators, yes or no?

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>>54989070
Maybe.

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Can someone share new HH short story Grandfather's Gift?

>>54989070
Depends on the legion, for Space Wolves, White Scars and Sons of Horus, yes.

The ork topknot head is perfect.

>>54989113
>Summer of reading
Hah you're too late Black Library, it's autumn.

>>54989113
It's just 5 dollars. Buy it and feed Guy Haley. He deserves it. He is so smole he needs to grow more.

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>>54989161
>smole

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I got my Myrmidons in the mail today, fuck I love how thiccck they are.

>>54989255
I can't stand the kit myself. 3 models with different wargear and a single pose each? No thanks.

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>>54989306
Yeah the different gear is stupid, but I'm giving them graviton imploders so it doesn't matter.

They can be kitbashed, but it requires a lot of bitz.

>>54989346
i stared at the right shield and genuinely wondered if the image was cut off
i feel a bit dim

>>54989346
It's a damn shame, reading MoM really made me like the Mechanicum and boosted my fondness for SoS and Custodes through the roof. Until I saw how... limited many of their 30K models were, and how expensive Kastelans were (I like them better than Castellax and would have converted the wargear to fit).

My ambitions of a Cybernetica force with heavy myrmidon/Peltast support have been postponed, to say the least.

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>>54989437
Yeah MoM had lots of fun Mech stuff.

You could make a small allied detachment, with 1 HQ, 1 or 2 Troop and 1 Elite & Heavy. That's what I'm doing, a whole Mech army is way too expensive. Mech and IW go well togethere too.

>>54987422
>>54988284

Corax resolved the issue by banishing huge swathes of the old Legion, and kamikaze-ing the last few.
> Humanitarian

>>54989525
Why was Corax such a cruel bigot?

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>>54989510
Honestly the reason I even started doing some EC on the side was because of the hilarious jobbing they did in that book. They're mentioned twice; once a squad is getting wrecked by a Myrmidon (he pulls their Sergeant apart while blasting the others with volkite, then throws the guy on the burning Astartes) and another time when Ra shoots a Legion officer with a crested helmet through the face plate with a digital laser.

True perfection.

Pic is WIP but I think the overall paint scheme works.

>>54989652
>but I think the overall paint scheme works
Anon... I don't think the blue and turquoise are working out desu senpai.

>>54989437
>I like them better than Castellax
Just plumbing the depths of bad taste here.

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>>54989705
He's a traitor and I wanted to tie in to pic related. I like it a lot to be honest, there's just something about those two colours that click.

>>54989725
You think? The Castellax is weirdly blocky, the Kastelan has good proportions (well, less bad) and can be easily converted to have a less retarded head.

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>>54989725
>>54989773
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/649756.page

Like so

>>54989652
I don't even remember that part. I do remember the Knight House who were allies with the EC, nice little sidestory.

I like your scheme, nice use of colors. Black shoulderpads maybe?

>that moment you join up to play the horus heresy as the game declines
>that moment you choose what /tg/ says is the weakest legion in the form of night lords
>Friends playing shit like thousand sons and says he wants to fight me first

Fuck my life.

>>54989639

Funnily enough, it arguably saved his Legion.
The fluff makes a point that the Warrior Lodges were mostly made up of disillusioned Terrans and by getting them all killed in suicide attacks, he almost completely removed the taint of Erebus from the Legion immediately before the Heresy broke out.
If he hadn't been such a seeping asshole to his Legion, he may well have lost his homeworld and the Legion truly destroyed.

>>54989920
Or he could have just done what all the other loyalist legions did and treated Terrans with respect so that they remained loyal (White Scars aside).

>>54989652
I may need to read that one, then, I was under the assumption that the Mech spent the book jobbing since the big boop got possessed by the Donut Steel Daemon. I suppose that if Emps jobbed to that thing it's no great shame.

Good to hear Myrmidons are badasses, I kinda want to see the Myrmidon Cults at war fully now. There's probably more Myrmidons than Astartes in the Imperium, they'd be a hell of an army.

>>54989639
Because the old legion was a bunch of hysterical murder hobos.

>>54989898
At least you have the most insane primarch, that's something.

>>54989898
You have a nice colour scheme at least.

>>54989977
It was part of their culture, you insensitive jerk.

>>54988861
EC were always perfumed braggarts screaming WE DA BEST even more than DJ Khaled. Always more concerned with their superiority than the task at hand.

>>54989972
Jobbing? If the PDF hold the line, the IG rush to the leaks and the Astartes strike where they must, the Mechanicum in MoM are PDF and to an extent IG, doing most of the grunt work. The Webway is utterly vast and there are very limited numbers of Custodes and SoS; I though ADB did a pretty good job of representing that. Mech hold the line, the other factions aren't numerous enough to do more than rush to where things are falling apart and try to patch shit.

Obviously they aren't the focus of the book, but if you read between the lines just a bit it's clear that they're just as important, especially since large numbers of SoS are spread across several Segmentum collecting psykers.

Hell, after the walls of the Impossible City fall it is remarked that the smell of enemy dead (Daemons AND Astartes from, at least, 4 separate Legions) is almost toxic. They only pulled down the wall by sacrificing 3 Warhound Titans, and even then they all got utterly wrecked.

Hieronyma spends the book annihilating everything in her path; due to plot it's mostly Custodes and SoS getting annihilated by her after the possession. It's a good read how guardian spears snap rather than penetrate her hull and how a pair of Custodes Contemptors barely even slow her down.

>>54989437
MoM was a rushed POS

ADB has started his slow decline. His inability to keep to deadlines, his Patton Oswald-tier levels of depression, and somehow always being poor as fuck are all showing in his work.

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>>54990150
The fruits of 5 min of labour.

>>54990192
I think I remember someone mentioning that Drach discarded his Titan because he wasn't adept enough with it to fight properly, so I guess that wasn't even daemon-bullshit Archimandrite rather than normal one. Nice to hear we actually fight properly in this, I always thought Mechanicum fight best in a straight-up meatgrinder rather than the fancy surgical strikes of the Astartes or Custodes, but since all the protagonists are Marines we never really get to show the scale of things.

I'll pull it from the MEGA and give it a read now, then. Good to have something to look at when working on my Adsecs.

>>54990111
>>54990061

S-should I drop my legion and play something else?

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>>54990548
Yes.

>>54990548
Nah, play the legion that you like, not the one that's the most powerful.

>>54990548
Typical Night Lord cowardice.

>>54989920
at the same time though his retardedness allows taint to get in anyway via alpha legion putting chaos chocolate in his gene-seed peanut butter.

The problem is the man clearly never moved passed the whole being a freedom fighter bit to realise he isn't fighting ''The Man'' anymore...he is the Man to some extent.

>>54990548

Stand true son of kurze.

At the end of the day we will wear their skins and feast upon their geneseed. They will know fear.

>>54989140
Technically, it's summer until September 22.

>>54989898
I wouldn't call them the weakest at all. Emperor's Children are, and Dark Angels come close due to that rule that costs you D3 victory points. I'd say Night Lords are in the same tier as Word Bearers and Raven Guard - but they might get some love in Angelus.

Terror squads are solid, but the rite of war that makes you take three of them is not (three's too many points unless it's a big game). Try Sacrificial Offering. Use bikes and attack bikes for meltabombs and bulkiness for outnumbering (jetbikes are good too, but shouldn't get into combat). And of course, take teleporting terminators, which are incredibly rare. Maybe use them in an Orbital Assault list.

>>54990701
>overthrow slavery and oppose tyranny on your home planet
>immediately swear undying loyalty to a slaver tyrant
Corax rivals Mortarion in his level of doublethink.

>>54990788
But tucking in their tail and running is what a true son of Kurze would do.

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>>54990548
No.

>>54990938
Not all, Kheron Ophion for example. Too bad he never got a model.

>no twisted rune transfer from FW

I'll just purchase the Calth transfers from Ebay but was the Twisted Rune chapter created by GW?

>>54990701
He knew of the Warp at least since his meeting with the Emperor, he fought primarily against Chaos, which in a way extends to him too. He knew it all the time but had only found the resolve after killing the remaining raptors. Also it's one of the better scenes of all the HH that I've read, which speaks for itself when we know who wrote it. Why can't George Mann get the Heresy Raven Guard damn it.

But you're still right about Corax becoming the man himself.

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>>54991203
EPILOGUE
Corax paced slowly to the first cell door on the Red Level. He paused for a moment, repulsed and driven on in equal measure.
It had to be done.
Inside, he found a creature crouched in the corner, its skin white beneath clumps of thick black fur, its eyes round, ebon discs that stared at him without any obvious intellect. Even so, he could not ignore the similarities – the pale flesh, and the dark eyes.
They had fought the war, and they had won. Now was the time to put right the assertion he had made to the sorcerer Nathrakin, on the forge world of Constanix II.
‘I have made several oaths in my long life, but I have been careful to swear only those I could fulfil – except for one,’ he told the beast. He crouched next to the pitiful thing and it shuffled closer, comforted by his presence, though the sight of it broke the primarch’s heart. ‘One I now think may be beyond me. I looked into the face of our enemy, into the heart of the force that had corrupted them. I knew that, even if we killed Horus, that power could not be eradicated completely. Chaos will return with ever greater strength if we allow it, if we give it the vessels it seeks and feed the ambitions that drive the weak to its embrace.’
Corax recognised the adoration and trust that radiated from the deformed Raptor. He laid one massive hand upon the former legionary’s head, and the fingers of the other curled around his throat. The creature’s mouth worked a few times, and drool dribbled over Corax’s hand and fell to the floor in thick gobbets.
‘I remember everything, and I remember my exact words before I sent that fiend back into the warp-vortex that had birthed it...’
Tears stung the primarch’s eyes.
‘I... I promised him that I would destroy every warp-spawned, Chaos-tainted creature in the galaxy before I die...’
The mewling, groaning thing that had been Navar Hef met his gaze.
‘And I have always kept my promises, my son.’

>>54991162
Lexicanum says the Twisted Rune chapter was in The Mark of Calth which came out in 2013, well before BaC.

>‘Tribune Endymion led a counter-attack to bring aid to the survivors. He recovered Mendel’s body.’
>‘An irrelevancy,’ the tech-priestess blurted back. ‘His mortal remnants are of no value to the Mechanicum. At most, his organic matter will be reprocessed for servitor sustenance fluid packs.’
>Diocletian bared his teeth, resisting the urge to curse at the Martian witch. Good men and women had died in that counter-attack.

This seems a little odd for a Custodes. Is their vaunted martial skill not enough to realize that wasting effort on lumps of dead meat is a little pointless in the middle of a war? They must have known the Mech wouldn't give a damn.

>>54991225
Tears in my eye, Corax was a good primarch.

>>54991235
Custodes have metahuman autism.

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>>54991225
Feels

>>54991235
I imagine the Custodes place enormous value on gathering their brothers' remains considering they're each handcrafted by the Emperor. Maybe their turboautism doesn't allow them to understand why the Mechanicum don't feel the same way. Although it sounds like the recovery of the body wasn't their true objective and was just incidental to rescuing survivors.

>>54991225
fuck

>>54991435
Yeah, that was my impression too. Still, carrying the war-form of a full Archmagos must have impaired him somewhat during the retreat.

Whatever, a minor thing. Just got to Drach nomming on a Ruststalker Princeps and his bloops. What's it screaming? Seems odd that a deathrattle would be three recognizable words.

>>54991564
The book (The Emperor) answers that later on.

>Khu’gath clapped its hands delightedly.

>‘You do not dream! You trifle with magic. You walk abroad in the realms of the soul. This form you wear here, it is your essence. You pass from the realms of flesh to the Realm of Chaos. You are a sorcerer.’

>‘It is not magic. It is science,’ said Mortarion dangerously. ‘I remain innocent of sorcery. My service is performed with utmost rationality. I am in my laboratory.’

>‘Are you now?’ said Khu’gath.

>‘I am.’

>‘In the place they call the Plague Planet?’

>‘Yes,’ said Mortarion.

>‘A planet reformed by your will.’

>‘A planet reformed by my efforts.’

>‘I disagree. Did you use machinery or slaves? Did you dig and pile, did you cultivate and plant?’

>‘No,’ said Mortarion. ‘I employed the sacred arts of numerology, for in sympathetic mathematical calculation the forms of things may be changed.’

>‘That sounds like magic,’ said Khu’gath.

>‘It is not,’ said Mortarion.

>Khu’gath shrugged. ‘As you will. What of this place?’

>Mortarion looked around. ‘It is a projection of my mind, nothing more. The full nature of Grandfather Nurgle is unknowable. This garden is too mundane to encapsulate his being. The garden is a metaphor, the attempt by a limited mind to comprehend the ineffable.’

>‘So you created it then?’

>‘If it were real I could not create it. But it is not real, so in a sense I did.’

>‘I am real. The garden is real. If you made it, that would be magic. You are a sorcerer,’ pronounced Khu’gath with certainty.

>‘I am a manipulator of the warp through the application of numerological truths.’

>‘Magic, magic, magic!’ said Khu’gath.

Who was in the wrong here?

>>54992156
Mortarion, as always

>>54992156

> Literally always wrong
> Mortarion

Pick 2.

>>54992156
>>54992175
It isn't quite that simple, in my opinion:
Mortarion thinks of psychic stuff as what the WB and TS do - make a gesture, say or chant something, lots of light and sound with cloth and hair blowing in wind that isn't really there.

The 6E CSM codex specified in the Sorcerer unit description that, in the strictest sense, you don't have to be a psyker to be a sorcerer, and I want to remember that there have been instances of people subduing/controlling the Warp near them in a limited fashion through sheer "mind over matter".

Really, the summation is in the last two lines. Khu'gath makes the definition that all manipulation of warp energy = sorcery = magic which, to my mind, isn't strictly WRONG. It's difficult to know exactly what IS true here, even with other lore to back one or another point of view up, since 1) Daemons are formed wholly of warpstuff and have hopelessly different perspectives compared to humans (they're the most and the least alien of all life forms in the 40K universe) and 2) Daemons lie.

I don't even know where I'm going with this anymore, thoughts?

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>>54992332
>you don't have to be a psyker to be a sorcerer,

I disagree.

Mortarion is a scientifically-minded, rational kind of guy. He thinks sorcery can be reduced to rational laws and principles, and he's convinced himself that numerology is mathematical enough to count.

Doesn't really matter whether he's right or wrong, as much as the fact that he's now a powerful psyker who thinks he's different and better than the WB/TS kind of psykers. He's on the same side as them but still distant.

>>54992380
Good grief, I keep misremembering things. I could have sworn that, just like how "BT didn't worship the Emperor before 6E" the 6E CSM codex said not all sorcerers were psykers. I opened it just now and I was wrong, again.

I need to refresh my lore in codexes rather than 1d4chan. "It is worth noting that while most sorcerers are psykers, and a psyker's natural affinity with the Warp does give them a better advantage, not all sorcerers are psykers and certainly not all psykers are sorcerers. Sorcery leans more towards ritual and using mediums to manipulate the forces of the warp (like cursed artifacts, sigils, and pacts), rather than sheer mental power; if Khorne actually opposed all psykers *and* all sorcerers, it would be basically impossible for Khornate cults to summon their patron's daemons."

And the BT page says the thing about them not worshipping the Emperor, contrary to the Codex but in line with the short sequel to Helsreach.

>>54990224
Black Legion is quite bad too. We're a long way from Betrayer.

>>54992380
The source of both is the same, but in sorcery you can use daemonic pacts, artifacts, rituals and other such things to manifest warp energy, not just your mind.

>>54993107
No, psychic power is sorcery and sorcery is psychic power.

>>54993128
Then how do you have people with no psychic powers being able to conjure warp shit with Chaos artifacts, rituals, etc.?

>>54993128
Sorcery basically lays out beacons for warp entities to come do something for you. If you're a psyker, you may be able to do those things yourself.

>>54993206
Because they actually have psychic powers. Everyone has a bit of psychic competence in them since it goes Emp -> Primarch -> Astartes

>>54993233
So what's the point of daemonic pacts and such, if everyone can just conjure the warp at will?

>>54993206
>>54993224
If you have no psychic potential, then you cannot use sorcery. Psychic abilities are sorcery and vice versa. Please keep your headcanon at the door of this thread.

>>54993291
Then how do you use daemon weapons?

>>54993329
Its usage is not sorcery. It's an an item created by magical means. You can swing it like any sword.

>>54993360
How can a non-psyker use a magic sword and its magical abilities? He has no ability to manifest those powers. A non-psyker can't take a force weapon and make it work, now can they? Surely sorcery and psychic powers are the same.

>>54993419
Not all magical swords are created the same. Some of them like Khornate daemon axes only require you to swing them. Others like Force weapons require you to channel your power in them. It's not that hard to understand.

Most daemon swords work no differently than ordinary swords except they are killier.

I hate it when anons act dumb on purpose.

>>54993761
So a person is able to use magical abilities imbued into a weapon via, say, bound daemons, even if they are not a psyker? Just like, say, CSM are able to spit warp fire from their bolters due to a magical icon, even if they are not psykers themselves? Is that what you are saying?

>>54993830
Not that anon but as far as I know, the difference between a force weapon and a daemonweapon is that the force weapon isn't inherently "magical", but rather works as a conduit, whereas the daemonsword has a sapient shard of the Warp inside of it.

>>54993291
No, I think it's accurate to say that sorcery lets non-psykers call warp entities into realspace. You're getting a daemon to do the work for you.

For example, the Battlefleet Gothic rulebook posits that certain ship classes were prone to having their crews turn to Chaos because of design flaws like geometric features. A number of 40k novels (e.g. the third Ciaphas Cain book) feature cultists writing runes on walls, and those runs affecting anyone who sees them and also being part of summoning rituals.

Since nearly all humans are latent psykers to a small degree, we can receive visions showing us those shapes or other things we need to do to perform one of those rituals. We follow through, sacrifice a soul or two, and that might be enough to get a daemon to do something. The difference from employing psychic powers is that you're just bringing a daemon into the world to perform those powers for you.

>>54993830
A sorcerer or daemonic entity bound an entity or a magical power source to the weapons and then that weapon ended in the hands of non-pyskers.

The Admech can bound fragments of stars into their weaponry. It doesn't make their users suddenly able to understand stars or have power over them.

Again, I point at the dumb on purpose part.

>>54993904
Again, psychic power is sorcery and sorcery is psychic power. The two are indivisible. You see the fluff picture above. It outright calls out dumbasses who try to put borders between the two. That's you.

If you have zero psychic potential, you have no way to use psychic power. That's why Tau and Necrons cannot into sorcery.

>>54993952
no way to use sorcery*

>>54993830
>>54993419
The daemon is the one spitting warp fire from the bolter, not you. It's only doing what you want because the wards on the weapon were properly 'installed', and I assume that anyone who isn't a blank is psychic enough for that to work.

A force weapon is different because there's no daemon in there do to the heavy lifting. You have to do it yourself.

>>54993905
It seems like being dumb is the only way to get you to admit nothing I said was erroneous.

>>54994036
It's erroneous. I simply have to point at the fluff.

>>54994059
Then you better stop saying the same things I was saying, since it's not true.

>>54994090
Dumb, you basically said that you shooting gun makes you personally a master over physics. It is dumb. You are dumb.

>>54994109
Where did I say that?

>>54994119
"How can a non-psyker use a magic sword and its magical abilities? He has no ability to manifest those powers".

You don't have the power to manifest physical forces. This means you can't use guns!

>>54994176
How did you get >>54994109 from this?

You have two weapons. Both blast the victim with warp energy. One does it via a bound daemons. The other has the user channel their latent psychic powers through it. One needs a psyker, the other one doesn't, both have the effect of blasting the target with warp energy. You, as a non-psyker, can blast a person with warp energy via the daemon bound to the blade. Without such weapon or psychic powers of your own, you have no way of blasting anyone with warp energy.

Y/N?

>>54994109
Shooting a gun is like having a daemon-possessed weapon. The gun does all the hard work, you just need to perform the appropriate rituals. In the 40k universe that means singing while you oil the gun, saying the right prayers, and pressing the trigger after the appropriate sequence of Departamento Munitorum-approved gesticulations. Its machine spirit (and projectile propellant) takes care of the rest.

If you were a powerful psyker, you could skip all that and create and fire bullets that you willed into existence. Out of a toy gun, if you wanted.

are we agreement that Sorcery and harnessing ones Psyker powers are different

>>54992861

Unfortunately, the BL addicts worldwide have shown nothing but praise for Black Legion GET IT BL BLACK LEGION so we will continue to suffer Chaos fanfiction for a decade or more.

>>54997128
It's like how blacks and niggers are different. Or how "nigger" and "nigga" are different.

>>54978377
>Now Alan Bligh is dead and the next planned release is over a year away

Since when, as far as im aware Angelus is slatted for release at the end of 2017, no?

>>54997842
Christmas 2018 was the tentative date given at the recent FW Open Day.

>>54997842
End of 2018, as of the recent FW Open Day.

FW has too many people working on Specialist Games (Necromunda out this November, Titanicus next year, BFG in the future but they haven't started) and their next 40k book has been delayed a million times already. So they're slowing down and planning out 30k which is something they haven't really done in the past. We'll get legion Rhino doors and praetors, many of the remaining units without models, and the rulebook will get a little more cleanup than they said last time.

Luther did nothing wrong. #Calibexit

>>54998284
Can't wait to see what they will do to continue the power creep

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Little bit of hobby tonight

>>54987422
Nightlords had no problem with the new recruits. The terrans grew up in equally shitty places as Nostramo.

Neither did the Thousand Sons seem to have problems. Prospero was like home for the terrans from the get go it seems.

The World Eaters seemed to be fine, too. They never gave a fuck about places of origin.

>>54972586

Just to connect up the archives, last thread was >>54926257

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OK, finished Master of Mankind now. Is there any reason why they COULDN'T just do as the Custodes says, kill Horus and then rebuild the webway project? Seems like Emps is just being really damn depressed. It's not that Drach is lurking around, that thing got sealed and even beforehand they almost iced it with a Cybernetica clade and some Custodes. Get the Ordo Reductor to roll some Ulators down that passageway and clear the tunnels with holy Omnissian song, it's not like there's ANOTHER Magnus to smash that up.

Also, we need more Land, given he's basically the Mech equivalent of House. In fact make it a buddy cop show, him and Zephon going Explorating feat. Baron Jaya as the cavalry and FabGen Kane as the hostile superior officer.

>>55002892
I imagine the Emperor was pretty shaken up about the whole thing. Keep in mind that some of the tech that went into constructing the webway portal might have been unique or something He doesn't know how to replicate because of its' xeno origin.

Tell me, how did you like the Mechanicum bits? I thought they kicked numerically significant amounts of ass, but apparently people think they jobbed.

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>>55003023
Well, they fucked up because the daemonic horde that even the EMPEROR couldn't handle managed to bring down most of their "We Stand For Mars" troops, which honestly is pretty minor in the grand scheme of things. Then the Archimandrite turned, tore apart a huge chunk of the Custodes and SoS with just the basic weapons it already had and generally gave a showing that wouldn't really shame a Primarch before going down. Their big pack of combat robots almost killed Drach'nyen, their Myrmidon bro killed an entire squad of Astartes fairly easily and the Talons would have been COMPLETELY fucked without them.

I think they did OK, especially since the webway didn't let them bring their big guns and they only had the forces within safe jump of Terra and nothing from Mars. Sure, they lost a lot of expendable servitors and Skitarii and Cybernetica, but only two Archmagi compared to about 80% of the Custodes. They didn't really lever their "hordes" advantage, though. Personally I would have used those massive chambers before the Webway Gate to set up one of their Skitarii cloning vats, but for very simple combat servitors and Adsecs. Feed them meat, pull out bodies, implant with simple claws or blades, activate RAAGE MODE and send the horde screaming into the webway. Custodes and heavy guns push, recover bodies of fallen Revenants and enemy Legionnaires, feed them back in and do it again, Tyranid style. It's a known Admech tactic from the Skitarii books, they manage to grind down Hive Fleets that way and this is a much smaller battlefield.

Then again, they didn't really have access to any Genetors they could trust and/or could afford to kill, or they'd be there already.
They jobbed a bit, but I would say considerably less so than the Custodes & Friends did. It's not really their kind of battlefield and they mastered it anyway, then held out against unknown enemies for ages and provided lots of glorious Daemon death.

>>55002892
His point at the end is that there's always going to be someone trying to depose Him. And the future enemies aren't going to be the slaves to Chaos that Horus was.

Alright I put together an Acheron last weekend and I plan on at least getting started painting it in the next few days, is this Knight chassis really as good as everyone says?

Honest question for those who got invested/who prefer 30k more to 40k, are you having trouble getting invested back into 8th at all?

I'm trying to find something that works but I just can't find anything in the current codices/indexes that has the same appeal as the Legions/Mechanicum/Solar etc...

Were we spoiled by how many options we had at our disposal? The level of customization most units had is far better than what 40k currently has with "the unit only has options that come with it in the box" thing.

It's really starting to make me want HH in 8th just so I can have these options again

>>54974267
>>54974135
Malcadors are insanely good, Legion or Militia, always got my vote.

>>54974946
>>54975026
Cool, nice /fit/ adsec. I agree on the shoulder pads, drop em.

>>55004216
Thanks anon. People seem to like them, just hoping that the GW will let me use them since they get really autistic about conversions.

Shoulderpads are irritatingly cast onto the models, which is why I haven't lopped them off the models with them already on. Think I will when I'm done with the rest. Greaves look OK and are finicky enough that I'm going to leave them where they on the current gang but remove them from the other 11 dudes while I'm working on them.

>>55004574
It's all GW bits so you should be good.

>>55004036
yea, I'm trying to get back into 8th with a death korps army, but I just keep glancing at the auxilia and my already ongoing legion project and I just sigh - luckly for me my crew looks ot be staying with 7th, which for me means sticking to HH.

>>55004171
I've been running two in a 3k Night Lords list, they never fail to impact the game both in the amount of damage they put out and the volume of fire an opponent sends their way.

>>54975026
>>54974946
Speaking of hunky man meat, are there any good alternatives for the Blood Angels style abs and pecks armour without all the BA iconography? I know Anvil makes some, but I wonder if there's any others.

>>54974946
>>54975026
>heretek extremists make serious gains on Mars

>>55002892
I got the impression that the major arteries they were using were originally in good shape, i.e. protected from the Warp. Daemons would still get into little capillaries feeding into those arteries so there was some fighting involved in setting everything up, but nothing they couldn't handle. Then Magnus blew holes in the arteries. Now you've got daemons streaming in by the millions and Chaos can keep that up almost indefinitely.

In theory, yes, I think the Emperor could have focused on stabilizing the Imperium, building up an incredible military with a lot of blanks and psykers, and eventually getting back in there. In the meantime, he'd be confined to the Golden Throne to keep the portal closed. Which is fine, but he needs to beat Horus soundly so that he can participate in the Battle of the Webway II. And the loyalists need to win strongly enough to be able to build up their forces. That didn't happen.

>>55006838
>And the loyalists need to win strongly enough to be able to build up their forces

Didn't the Imperium have at least 1000 years of relative peace before the Beast and Traitor Legions reared their heads? If the Emperor didn't job to Horus that might have been enough time to set things right.

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>>55006915

I have a rules question.

In pic related, we have an enemy deathstar squad. Perhaps it is Magnus and Sekhmet, or a Tribune and Hetaeron.
In exchange, I have 10 Tacticals and a Rhino.

Assume that I disembark and surround the enemy, as pictured. I then declare a Tank Shock and move the Rhino just far enough that it covers all enemies, *except* for the one marked with a black 'X'.
The rest of the Deathstar is entitled to move out of the way and 'bumps' back behind the Rhino.
However, due to the length of the hull, none of them have maintained a 2" coherency with Model X and thus, are destroyed.
Magnus and the Tribune, plus every single member of the squad who was bumped back, auto-dies regardless of their Invuls or Invisibility.

Is this correct, and if so, why are Rhinos not used everywhere holy fuck.

Is it alright if we shoot a list off in here? First time player looking for feedback.

>>55007293
Shoot, happens all the time.
Might take a while to get a response though.

>>55007122

Obviously cannot Tank Shock and disembark in the same turn.
Change the first sentence to simply moving around them instead. Perhaps they have Jump Packs to help them reach.

>>55007299

Limit is 500 points and my first force is gonna be a mechanicus taghmata army. Really interested in them and finishing up my night lords.

HQ
Magos Dominus- 65 pts
-archeotech pistol - 10 pts
-augury scanner - 5 pts

Troops
Castellax Maniple- 85 pts
-Another Bot- 85 points
Castellax Maniple- 85 pts
-Another Bot- 85 points
Tech thralls- 35 pts
-Another ten thralls- 30 pts
-Induction charges- 15 pts

All told 500 points but I'm worried I'm gonna btfo by marines.

>>55007432
at 500 points Marines are not going to have an easy or fun time dealing with 4 Castellax...
The Thralls are probably nice for holding objectives, and the Magos should hold his own against a Centurion.

>>55007432
Right. 500 points is a fucking tiny 30k list, so you'll probably be shooting mostly infantry. Ditch the chargers and buy Fearless instead, their damage is ass anyway and Fearless lets them tarpit like champs.

Problem is, that's an old red book list, there have been points changes since.
Grab the newer one from the MEGA in the OP, and I'll write you up what I think is a good equivalent in new points while you look at it.

>>55007122
If you magically manage to surround a deathstar like that you sure could do that in theory.

>>55007122
Because most HH players are not rules-lawering faggots like you. So, god job being part of the cancer that kills 30k, I guess.

>>55007432
>not taking two min thrall squads and dumping the rest of your points into an archmagos

>>55007543
>>55007432

You have a pretty severe problem here in that if you want a similar list you'll only get three bloops, so you can't run Cybernetica min requirements, in which case you need another Troops choice as Automata are not Troops in Taghmata.

So either you do:
HQ: Magos Dominus (75)
- Photon Gauntlet (10)
- Meltabombs (5)

Troops:

20 Thralls, Fearless, Carapace Armour (100)
20 Thralls, Fearless, Carapace Armour (100)

Castellax (105)
Castellax (105)

Combine the Castellax if you want better Cybertheurgy coverage, leave separate for better fire control and ability to squash two squads of plebs in melee at once. The Photon Gauntlet gives you valuable anti-2+, even if just at short range, the meltabombs let you enhance an Adsec squad with anti-tank and each robot will easily be a match for a squad of Tacticals. The hordes of Adsecs are almost the best tarpits and scorers in the game aside from militia hordes. Should do fine.

Or you do:

HQ: Magos Dominus (75)
- Meltabombs (5)

Troops:
2 Castellax (210)
2 Castellax (210)

Sacrifices all scoring for a hell of a lot of firepower. Going pretty much for table or nothing at this point, but you'll never die ever and the enemy will struggle to kill even one bot if you heal them with Rite of Eternity.

Third choice, somewhat inefficient but possibly closer in spirit to your original list, is this:

HQ: Magos Dominus (75)
- Photon Gauntlet (10)
Troops:

10 Thralls, Fearless (50)
10 Thralls, Fearless (50)

Castellax (105)
Castellax (105)
Castellax (105)

Again, group the bots up as you wish.

Your scoring cannon fodder will easily be killed by bolters without carapace armour, but you get an additional combat robot in there for significant increased damage and probably just want to charge forward smashing up stuff while the Thralls hide and score points on home objectives.

>>55007769
I would say that lists 1 and 3 are the ones that would perform best. I would go for #1 because I love hordes and tarpits and I'm loath to spend points on full-unit upgrades applied to units not at maximum bodies, but that's just my particular brand of list autism.

Also, if you wanted to bring what's essentially a high-grade Primarch to a 500pts game, you could always do:

HQ: Anacharis Scoria with Xanatite Abeyant (315)

20 Thralls, Fearless/Carapace (100)
15 Thralls, Fearless/Carapace (85)

And just beat everything to death with Scoria firing five guns at once, beating down Horus in melee with little effort, healing over time and generally being a massive cheesy badass. Everyone WILL hate you for doing that, though.

>>55007769

Think that last one and the second one is gonna have to be it for now. Seriously though I really appreciate the help anon. Gonna save those in a doc. for later. This is gonna look badass when I get it all painted up on the tabletop however and everything is said and done. Might table my NL for a bit to work on these but I wanted two cool visually distinct armies anyway and this is gonna be it.

Mind me asking after the point level goes up where I should head unit wise?

>>55007904
Scoria really shouldn't be used below ~2500 points, he's that good. In 500 points he's just mean.

>>55007978
Obviously get your full four Castellax and 20 to 40 Adsecs, plus two Domini. Then probably pick up a Thanatar for heavy firepower and then grab pretty much anything as long as it's not a Domitar, Thallax (unless you need them for Reductor), Scyllax or pack of Myrmidon Secutors. Most of the Admech list is pretty good, honestly, although I'd advise almost any list you make to have at least forty Thralls in it to score shit and tarpit enemy deathblobs.

>>55008276
Thanks a ton anon.

I'll have to look through the pics for a good dark mechanicus color scheme. Anyone got recommendations?

>>55008322
They're in book 8

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>>55008322
Beep Boop Xana. They have a few schemes, a transfer sheet of their own (House Malinax Transfer Sheet on FW site) some cool lore in Book 6 and an excuse to be in a 40k Admech army when IA14 comes out, since they're still around.

This is perhaps my favourite, but basically mix in dark red and grey as well as black metal and black robes to flavour up the basic bronze scheme if you want.

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>>55007669
>implying trapping a unit then crushing it under your tank isn't rad as fuck

>>55008344
Only Sarum. They already have a pretty cool colour scheme though.

>>54987604
>Brosis T'kar
He will be remembered

>>55007669

Is it any less cancerous than an invisible Magnus throwing D-tornados about?
It's just a check against your opponent being a superdouche. A hard counter to being a cunt. Not something for every game, but a way around a fucking 3+++ EW Tribune abusing LoS! chains.

>>55006915
Relative peace after an empire shattering war. They barely got any of their shit back together. Arguably they don't really ever get their shit back together, constantly decaying, infighting, purging, getting black crusaded, xenos incursion etc. till the 41stK. The great crusade was humanity's last chance, it was running on left overs from the dark age of technology, and they fucked it up worse.

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>>54972586

Is it possible to make a Legion squad WYSIWYG without looking cluttered as fuck?
I bought a whole pack of grenades and holsters so that every model has the full package of Frag-Krak-Pistol, and some of them just look horrible.
Grenades look fine, as do the little baggies, but the holsters are just too long and don't sit right on the legs.
Am I autistic and should just drop it? I've Googled through some armies and the overwhelming majority don't bother.

>>55009367
I gave all mine holsters and CCWs. Holsters sit quite nicely on the side and CCWs slip quite nicely either under the backpack, or between the shoulder and backpack (in some cases you might need to shave the trim a bit to make them fit, but it won't show). Would have loved to add grenades and ammo pouches, but not enough room for those.

Some legions might get away with mounting pouches and grenades all tacticool on their shoulders, greaves, etc.

>>55009367
I reconcile the absence of grenades on some models by telling myself that those guys already threw them

>>55006124
My Sons of Horus run 2 at 3k as well, combo'd with a pair of Primaris Lightning craft. Its a bitter Speartip aimed at the foes throat.

Just watched a couple Heresy games tonight, Forrix Bro and his Iron Warriors getting overrun by Alpha Legion, and Night Lords Brawling with Word Bearers, tonight was a good night.

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>>54972586

> Boxed Set ideas

> Descent of Angels: Dark Angels vs Night Lords
30 MkII bodies. Include bits for Jump Packs and wielded Chainswords.
3 Jetbikes, 5 Destroyers and 3 Tarantulae. Champion and Jump-Praetor.

> Burning of Prospero: Space Wolves vs Thousand Sons
30 MkIII bodies, 5 Tartaroi Terminators.
5 Sisters of Silence, 5 Custodes, bits for alternate squad loadouts.
Ahriman and Geigor.

> Betrayal at Calth: Ultramarines and Word Bearers
30 MkIV bodies, 5 Cataphractii.
Contemptor Dreadnought.
Chaplain and Cataphract-Praetor.

> Vengeful Spirit: Salamanders & Iron Hands vs Sons of Horus & Emperors Children
20 MkV, 10 MkIV, 10MkIII bodies. Additional sprue of chainswords and Pistols in MkII/IV patterns.
Contemptor-Cortus, 3 Rapiers and 20 Militia.
Tybalt Marr and Shadrak Meduson

> Ashes of Istvaan: Raven Guard vs Alpha Legion
30 MkVI bodies. Optional Camo-cloaks and shoulders. Includes Shotguns, Sniper RIfles and Special-Issue Ammo Bolters.
3 Outriders, 3 Vorax, 1 Javelin.
Praevian and Vigilator.

> Siege of Terra: Imperial Fists, White Scars and Blood Angels vs Death Guard, Iron Warriors and World Eaters
Ludicrously sized, heavily discounted box that combines boxes 2-4.
Contains 30 MkII, 30 MkIII and 30 MkIV.
5 Cataphractii, 5 Tartaroi, Contemptor, 5 Sisters, 5 Custodes, 5 Destroyers, 3 Jetbikes, 3 Tarantulae.
Cataphract Praetor, Chaplain, Champion, Jump-Praetor.
Ideally Kharn and Sigismund, but that might be hard to sell.

>>55009788
>Battle of Phaal: Iron Warriors and Imperial Fists
MK 2 Marines and Breachers
Boarding Centurion and Praevian (with Kastelan)
>Shattering of Molech Sons of Horus and Blood Angels
MKV marines and some Assaulters quad laser/graviton and Indomitus
Shattered Legions
Medusons Shattered vs Pick a Traitor... I'll say Emperors Children.
MK 2 marines and Cult blobs, despoilers/destroyers maybe.

Personally I would kill for a Schism of Mars set. Two alternative plastic Magi with a few different options, plastic Castellax, Thallax and 20 Adsecs.

Never going to happen, because only Marines are allowed plastic despite already having two different marks of armour available en masse, but it would be awesome and probably result in money leaping towards the nearest GW from my wallet of its own free will.

Battle of Tallarn
Imperial Army vs. Iron Warriors
1 tank plus 2 infantry for the imperial army
some mix of astartes stuff we already have (cheap developement)

that is why everybody thinks Steel Legion is next...

Since 30k is having its resources diverted to specialist games and 40k is phasing out marinelets we're never going to see another plastic Heresy box again. It's unfortunate because I vastly prefer GW's marines to FW's.

>>55010048
The bigger reason that it won´t happen is that it would kill Kastellan sales.

>>55010376
Steel Legion do make me willing to go Militia.

>>55009788
Anything that gets me plastic assault marines, either mkIV or mkV.

>>55009788
>Spirit of Vengeance
>tileset for Vengeful Spirit
>a plastic Chaos Horus
>a plastic Emperor
>a plastic Sanguinius
>a plastic Dorn
>5 indomitus terminators
>20 cultists
>20 CSM

>>55010893
Then every 40k army will feature the Emperor Himself. Ultimate herohammer.

>>55010893
Also Ollanius Pius with a super-special Look Out, Sir! rule.

>>55010939
Well of course GW's gonna give the models 40k rules, why would they put out models for a dead game?

Why does Battlescribe crash when I try to make a HH list

>>55010954
>implying it won't be a rule for the terminators

>>55010967
the new files don't play nicely with others. I got it working by making sure I had 64 bit java instead of 32 bit java.

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>>55010987
>Implying the rules won't be optional for the new plastic Hetaeron

>>55011019
GW canon > BL canon.

>>55011019
>Implying it won't be a rule for Sanguinius

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>>55011059
""""""""""Sanguinius""""""""""

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Now that /hhg/ is dead, should we turn it into Femarchs General?

>>55011451
It's not THAT dead.

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Most will probably call it a bad time to, but does anyone have advice for starting Mechanicum? I like the models, the lore, and if/when Fires of Cyraxus comes out I want to be able to port my seperatist forge world to be able to fight in modern battles.

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>>55011451

I want to turn a techpriest into a Terran artificer. What would make a good colour scheme? I'm thinking of making his armour gold/brass, to fit with Custodes. Really want to avoid red on the hood/tabard.

>>55011562
First thing you need to do is pick a type, or at least a preference. Cybernetica does robots extremely well at the cost of list versatility, Ordo Reductor does artillery, vehicles and generally dishes out buffs to everyone, albeit somewhat less so than the "fire 8 S8 AP2 basically Ignore Cover Barrage BS5 blasts" nonsense that some Cybernetica units can pull off with some focussed buffs, opportunity and effort. Reductor takes a little more finesse, but you can do a bit more with it. Both are powerful, no problems there.

What do you like about Admech? What do you want to bring to the table in terms of playstyle and unit variety and even aesthetic? Our book is drenched in flavour and fluff bits, and our unit range is pretty vast, so we can pretty much do any archetype you go in for apart from maybe air cavalry. Although there was a guy using some interesting rules to make a glorious Admech airship flyer to rain down troops from, so maybe we can do that too.

>Separatist Forge World
I see you are also a man of great taste in faction and fluff.

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>>55011461
>>55011566

>>55011732
Playstyle, I'm not quite sure. Reductor sounds fun just for having huge cannons, but something with more infantry and mobility or just being able to steadily advance through heavy fire to blast at closer range sounds much more interesting than gunlining. I can't look at the books right now, due to being on my phone, so I can't see what ordo does what besides Reductor.
As well I don't know about aesthetic, maybe something based around them having rebelled not just against the Imperium but all foreign rule, a lone system of a Forge World and it's agri world neighbors standing it's ground against both sides. Possibly going a bit Tzeenchy in their desperation for more advanced weaponry.

>>55011723
Either a bright gold/brass with black or white, or a dull gold (almost white gold, maybe even a sickly greenish pale yellow) with any dark color.

>>55011879
Cybernetica is the least mobile, so that's out. The Vulturax is a flyer so it's mobile, but it might also be broken.

Reductor means Thallax (brain stems installed in jump pack suits) and Tech Thralls in Triaros transports. And tanks (Krios and Krios Venators). Pretty mobile.

The most recent option is the Secutarii, who are basically 40k Skitarii models with head and weapon upgrades. Titan Guard... who may be operating at a small distance from their titans. In other words, you don't need to have a titan with you. That's a fluff turn-off for a lot of players. I think they can also use Triaros transports, but they can also take Arvus Lighters. Don't be That Guy with 20 secutarii with haywire rifles (not the weapon's actual name) in a deep striking Arvus.

>>55011879
That fluff is pretty much what my guys are rocking, too, except we're fleet-based for the most part and prefer Nurgle when we actually get DarkMech.

Infantry-mobility with backup big guns. Well, Ordo Reductor can certainly do that. They have to take two units of three Thallax, which are jetpack Ogryns with Rending Assault 1 Autocannons each, one in three can take a better AT weapon and the units can buy Tank Hunter cheaply. Deepstrike them in, shoot rear armour, draw fire onto T5 W3, jet off to objectives. Their melee equivalents can charge in with S10 Power Fist attacks en masse, but they aren't troops and have Jump Packs instead of Jet. Follow up with a main battle line of Secutarii and Myrmidons in Triaros transports or a Macrocarid respectively, big AV14 smashy monsters with scary guns. Buy an augury web to let your Land Raider equivalent Scout forward, burn a hole in the enemy line with two Fleshbane AP3 Torrents then disembark the Myrmidons and unleash a barrage of AP2 Grav at BS5 preferred enemy. Add in cheap Vindicators with Power of the Machine Spirit for move 12" and fire, everything in your army ignoring all terrain problems and Secutarii using the armoured Triaros to get close enough to launch rad-bombardments and you've got perhaps the scariest armoured spearhead in the game which then all becomes Scoring in enemy deployment.

If you want more infantry, rearm the Myrmidons to Conversion beamers and Volkite, get rid of the transports and steadily advance the Secutarii blobs and Myrms behind a hail of Phosphex shells, given you completely ignore the difficult and dangerous terrain it leaves behind and can guide the shells onto targets and slash the enemy cover with cyber-occularis, as well as Intercepting Artillery.

Advancing Relentless gunline with artillery and vehicle support and a few faster skirmish troops like Thallax and Ursarax is pretty much the quintessential Reductor playstyle to a T, so seems like they're what you're looking for.

>>55012078
>>55012090
Well that's just beautiful. When I get the books I'll have to expand my ideas out, but that sounds like what I want. I'll just have to start getting units, painting, planning and hoping that there's a community in Oklahoma City to play with.
And find a paint scheme. Something metallic probably, maybe blue or an emerald green.

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>>55012482
>maybe blue or an emerald green
For a color example, here's Zhao-Arkkad, the forge world with strong links to Prospero. A rather bold scheme and certainly not the only way to use green.

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Whats /hhg/s thoughts on despoilers? I'm considering 20, an apothecary and a chaplain in a spartan for my Sons of Horus. I just worry they are going to be an expensive dud.

>>55013571
The chaplain in tartaros terminator plate and a pair of power weapons. Because thats cool.

>>55013571
>>55013817
Then he will take 2 spaces in the transport.

I like Despoilers, can't talk about viability though.

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Finished my first infantry model for my Fists(base not done obviously) Really happy with it since this will be my standard for every squad model.

>>55015609
Good luck with your Bee-Marines, how will you run yours?

Fortress hugging or "Impetator vult" crusading?

As far as purchased equipment goes, do combi-bolters fall under the same category as combi-weapons or are they separate weapon types?

>>55013571
so thats where the reaver helmet comes from. also nice useage of ultramarine and deathguard helmets :^)

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>>55016154
The "See that guy over there in that fortress? Kill him and all his friends" approach.

And

"You know what send in the best we got and don't even leave ashes".

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>>55017631
Cool, my best wishes.

>Tfw to early for pain-glove memes.

>>55017889
Thanks man. Here's hoping I have 100 of them done before Christmas.

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>>55017631
>phalanx warder helmet in contemptor

>>55015609
needs some shading

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I realize I won't be making a lot of friends with this, but how corrupted were the DG during the Siege of Terra? I mean, Morty obviously wasn't a DP yet, but beyond that?
To be frank, I really want some of those new Deathguard models.

>>55018922
I got a DG force with a bunch of CSM and Possessed bits in them, and hopefully Daemons at some point as well.

>>55018922
>how corrupted were the DG during the Siege of Terra?
Pretty fucked up by Nurgle. I don't think the 40k models are very appropriate though since they're more patchwork marines who have spent 10k years repairing their armour and rotting.

>Morty obviously wasn't a DP yet
Mortimer was totally a Daemon Prince on Terra. Chris Wraight foreshadowed that the Khan and Daemon Morty will have a showdown during the Siege.

>>55019117
>patchwork marines

So far plague marines look like they're in MkIII and the terminators look like cataphractii. Sure, some have a domed shoulder pad, but so do Custodes in their cataphractii.

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Perturabo was actually sort of bro-tier in pic related. I thought it was a little bit weird but then I remembered he'd only been discovered for 4 years at this point. Pert hasn't yet become bitter from a century of slogging through mud and blood.

What is the objectively best and worst legion in the eyes of the following :
1)the emperor
2)the imperium's citizens
3)yourself
Please give some details for your decisions

>>55010893
>"sanguinius" is just terrain for horus and emperor's combined base

>>55019556
>1)
Best: Luna wolves, Ultras, DA
Worst: Word Bearers
>2)
Best: Ultras, Imperial Fists, Blood Angels, Salamanders
Worst: Night Lords, World Eaters, Iron Warriors, Death Guard
>3)
Best: Imperial Fists, Blood Angels, White Scars
Worst: Traitor Shits

>>55019566
>(((Horus))) and """""""""Emperor""""""""" are just a turn counter in which time Dorn and his terminators must make it to the bridge through a gauntlet of traitors

>>55019598
Give some reasons for your choices

>>55019556
>1)
Best : Luna wolves / SoH. Horus was his favorite sons.
Worst : Word Bearers because of the monarchia's incident

>2)
Best : Salamanders. They are the most philanthropist
Worst : Nights Lords. Edgy cunts who use terror and torture excusely

>3)
Best : Salamanders. I really like the shattered legion story line and salamanders are my favorite chapter/legion since the beginning.
Worst : Space Wolves. Fucking furries and vikings bullshits

>>55013571
Just take Reavers. All of the basic troops choices are pretty bad, Reavers are generally better than Despoilers and can take chainaxes for +1S for just a point.

>>55019556
1)
>best
Dark angels,SoH and luna wolves for their ability to conquer worlds, Salamanders for their loyalty unto end, Ultra's and iron hand for leaving behind functionning worlds
>worst
Word bearers, monarchia was needed

2)
>best
Salamanders and BA for their kindness (or something close the astartes are able to manifest), thousands sins only when you're being conquered because diplomacy
>worst
World eaters, word bearers (imposing any religion is usually nasty irl), death guard, night lords and spaces wolves
3)
>best
Salamanders, my one and only space marine army, both in 30k and 40k, very good fluff in the black books, not very relatable (as are all space marines) but cool nonetheless, also have the bonus of never yielding
>worst
Spaces wolves and Dank angels, because fuck hypocrisy and lies

>>55020114
Patrician taste mate

>>55020086
Reavers are a never again, far too pointsy, I'd rather just take veterans and assault marines for giggles.

>>55020640
I think they're okay if you stick to minimal upgrades and bring a ton of them. The bolters definitely aren't worth it and I get the feeling jump packs aren't either.

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>>55017631
>The "See that guy over there in that fortress? Kill him and all his friends" approach

Surely you'll have some allies right? For maximum :,)

>>55021600
Jump Packs are in theory viable in big units as its the cheapest way to get them mobile. Never works out. You just end up getting a better deal out of weapon master vets with a smattering of power weapons or a squad of vanilla terminators, that is if you don't give them jump packs. And Justaerin outperform all of the above if you leave jump pack mobility out of there.

>>55021603
With Imperial Fists I'd run with Luna Wolf allies, because those Legions actually got on before the Rebellion. The IV and VII never got along regardless of loyalties.

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>>55021758
I know, but some time ago we used to joke about IF and IW being best friends and so on.

>>55021779
So Tsundere IW... I'll accept that... and use it to piss off my buddy that plays IV.

>>55021798
They're both tsundere. IW playing all coy at Sebastus IV, IF can't get enough and form the Black Templars to satisfy their craving for something bitter and salty...

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>>55021823
I'll be honest, the Templars, and Sig, seem more pissed at the XVI than the IV. Especially considering Siggies talk about specifically hunting for Abaddon at Terra. No mention of 'I looked for you, and those cunting Iron Warriors.' Just Abaddon. Always will the Heirs of Sigismund hate the Sons of Horus. Perturabos chavs don't even come into the mix.

>>55019178
fuCK, I gotta read this sometime. Or listen.

>>55021864
That's because 1) Horus killed the Emperor, 2) Abbaddon and Sigismund probably were friends, or at least aware of just how OP the other guy was, and 3) there were literally tens of thousands of IW at Terra and later at Sebastus IV for Sigismund to wreck.

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>>55020114
>iron hand for leaving behind functionning worlds
I don't know about that. They are one of the more brutal legions, all about conquest and kicking ass, not building. A bit similare to the Death Guard and Space Wolves, but used different methods for the same goal; not to build, but break and tear down anything opposing the Emperors great crusade. I guess the World Eaters fit the bill too.

That's the way I see it.

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>>55011451
>mon visage quand

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>>55022037
Seriously, he was one of the most reasonable and realistic Primarchs.

He knew his place in the grand scheme and did not immediatly stumble into a mid-life crisis after he was found

He realised Emps had a breddy good idea and stuck with it.

On the other hand he was secretly pretty idealistic. All thar suffering inflicted and endured had a highet reason/goal.

That was why he and his legion began their metallic screeching+suicide run after the traitors shat on everything they all had accomplished till now.

>Tfw one of the most inhuman by practice Primarchs was secretly a big humanist.

>>55018922
Didn't most of the DG become plague marines during the travel to Terra?

>>55022173
He's underrated for sure. It's a shame about the whole bionics misunderstanding between him and his legion.

>>55022368
Also, Horus straight up says Ferrus was the only one as good at war as he was.

>>55022836
Oh please.

>>55022877
“Good,’ said Horus. ‘Because I see the complexity of war differently to other men. Killing on this scale isn’t only about numbers and movement on a battlefield. Just by observing them I shape them and bend them to my will. Can you imagine any of my brothers “mastering so chaotic an endeavour as war as I do?’
‘No, sir.’
Horus waved an admonishing finger. ‘Come on, Mal, you’re better than that. Stop sounding like a sycophant. Answer honestly.’
Maloghurst bowed and said, ‘Perhaps Guilliman.’
‘Too obvious,’ said Horus. ‘Some think he has no heart for war, that all he cares about are grand plans and stratagems. They’re wrong. He knows war as well as I do, he just wishes he didn’t.’
‘Then perhaps Dorn?’
‘No, too hidebound,’ said Horus. ‘Nor the Lion or Vulkan. And not the Khan, though he and I are so very close in alignment.’
‘Then who?’
‘Ferrus,’ answered Horus, tapping the lid of the ornately wrought box of lacquered wood and iron that sat next to him.
‘If he was so capable, then why is he dead?’
‘I didn’t say he was perfect,’ said Horus, leaning forward as the hololith hazed with static as it updated. ‘But he knew war like no other. Terra would already be ours if he had joined us, if my Phoenician brother had handled the approach with a modicum of subtlety.”

>>55022960
I think Horus is mostly just reminicing about his dead brother here. Besides, he doesn't mention most Primarchs and says Guilliman also knows war as well as he, so I'm not sure how else to interpret that quote than him being thoughtful/moody/whatever.

>>55023033
I think he means Ferrus can be as ruthless and mean as he is and grasp the moment in a wild situation where the Gillman prefers to follow his ordered pursuit and potentially be "nicer".

Im still thinking about what heart means here, maybe he is not as willing to sacrificr or do "evil" shit?

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>>55022214
Yes.

>>55023087
I think you've got it right, Guilliman doesn't have the stomach to do what it takes to win like Horus - and many other Primarchs - were

>>55023087
I think that 'heart' in this context refers to a willingness to really delve into the more vile aspects of war, basically exactly the bits the Major in Hellsing espoused. Guiiliman could, and would later, fight as horrible a war as anyone, but he tried to avoid that shit if at all possible; if there was a reasonable strategy or tactic that didn't rely on these evils of war he'd choose it if it was viable to do so, while poeple like Horus or Ferrus would not hesitate to go for it.

>>55023196
I'd say what Horus implies here is that Booby G does indeed have the stomach and heart for the nastiest warcrimes and such, but he really, REALLY wished he didn't or holds himself above it.

>>55022037
Read more of the Black book my dude. The Iron Hands made sure to keep as much infrastructure as possible intact during thier conquests.
They'd happily purge a place, but the place they purged would have the most of its manufacturing capability intact and ready for Imperial Settlers when they left.

>>55019556

> The Emperor
Best: Sons of Horus, Daddy's #1 son for a reason
Worst: Word Bearers. Publicly censured for being shit.

> Citizens
Best: Blood Angels. Literally designed to evoke holy awe.
Worst: Night Lords. 'Loyal monster' indeed.

> Me
Best: Raven Guard / Sons of Horus. Closest things to Reasonable Marines and fight like I would expect a £1m soldier to fight.
Worst: Iron Warriors. Don't send £1m soldiers into a meat grinder; use Orbital strikes instead.