Shit GMs say

>>54968482
>I'll take 'Stuff that never happened' for 500 please, Alex

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>>54968482
>die
>you're still required to show up to every session for the next 2 years

>>54968551
the reasoning was
>so you put effort and care into the only character you can make. and dont do stupid shit

>>54968572
Is your group that shit or is it the GM?

>>54968572
Nah. We can't have gamers be responsible and intelligent... what the fuck is the world coming to?

>>54968663
he is inexperienced at worst.
but things like pc having no clue about their surroundings and foes or forgetting details dont happen as frequently / dont cause such big problems when i GM

>i need a smoke break

>whos got pitch on pizza?

>dude i wish could tell you this cool shit i thought of

>>54969273
>i need a smoke break

Shit mate, not giving your GM the time he needs to adjust the style of the game after the players made a major decision and by doing that, validating their decisions as characters in an living and free world.

>>54969477
i dont understand what you mean. are you saying GM's dont say this?

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>>54969273
>playing with smokers

>>54969537
>not ending the session with a nice smooth cigarrette to help you relax and reflect on the session

>>54968572
>every player intentionally does stupid shit to die in the first session
>they all form a new group by themselves and don't invite you
>you're left with nothing, you sulk in your basement and cry every would-have-been-game-night because you've lost all your players due to your autism and they told everyone at the LGS what a fucking weirdo you are so no one is willing to join your games ever again

>>54969515
I'm saying, if the GM says he needs a break he probably needs a break, he is a player of the game just as you are and does it for his own entertainment.

>>54969578
oooh you thougt i meant it negatively

nah man i was just saying stuff gms say lol, no negative connotations intended

>>54969589
Oh, thanks for clearing that up. I just thought that it was on the context of the thread "shit GMs says" as in: bad GMs say things like this.

Have a great day chap.

>>54969692
you too man

>>54968482
>Yes, I know you did great with that sense motive check, but since [character] himself believed the stuff he told you, you read him as honest, which he was.

>>54968482
He telling please do not make me kill you - LOL- Those GMs are the worst, The game dies soon do to the silly stuff the GM well then pull out to keep players from dying

>>54969735
but this makes sense, his motive was pure, not his words

>>54969798
this desu

>>54969802
It might make sense, but it completely fucks over a party who then relies upon the statement despite doing their best to check it for accuracy. It's pretty much a way to screw over players 'fairly'.

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>>54968482
That sounds familiar.

https://www.chick.com/reading/tracts/0046/0046_01.asp

>>54969537

Indeed, a proper gentleman relaxes with a cool beer.

>>54969818
yeah but thats just the way life is, its roleplaying, not rollplaying

>>54969818
Its almost as if there is a difference between sensing motives and sensing truth.

>>54968482
>>If your characters die, you wont be able to partake in the campaign anymore.

Shit players say
>If my character dies, I'm not making another one. I'd rather not play than make another character.

>>54968572
sounds reasonable, you just sound like a whiny bitch

>>54969818
It's almost as if it is a story and not everyone is omnipotent.

>>54969537
>Not smoking
>2017

>>54968551
My DM run high-lethality game where dying was punishable by buying him bottle of wine, mean or somesuch. It worked pretty well, desu.

what did your character's parents look like?

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>>54970043
To be honest smoking is a habit that does not exist in the upper strata of the society, it's mostly a low education thing

>>54968482
>guy was GMing his first campaign in like 5 years
>party of 5 players and 2 dmpcs split up into like 4-5 groups across two different dungeons
>clusterfuck of party swapping and separate actions
>eventually all grouped up to escape
>everyone escaped, except one player was still stuck in the dungeon because the GM forgot about him and didn't give him a chance to do any actions

>>54973610
Absolute nonsense. They just hide their smoking.

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>>54968482
>"I'd really appreciate if you guys RP your characters."
>"This NPC has like a scraggly voice, I'm not actually going to do it though just imagine it."

>>54973962
Some people have actual shit vocal range and no seeming ability to improve despite trying, sadly.

>>54974000
Scraggly is just a placeholder honestly. Any type of voice that isn't his own is too much work apparently.

>>54973962
If by RP your GM means RP and not acting then that's alright. Not every table can be drama class: dice rolling edition.

>>54974049
When we started he asked us what our characters sound like and expects just that.

>>54969900

>running games with drama/theater/literature majors in college

>>54968482
>Your character will never die and you can't make a new one.
>Your character wouldn't do that, instead they would do [X].
>Your argument is flawless and there's no evidence against you but the judge finds you guilty anyway. He detects as Lawful Good.
>Your Lawful Good bard would never demand payment for any service they provide, so you can't make money through Profession or Performance rolls or ask for rewards for quests. Also everyone in the party has to be Lawful Good.
>Yes, you rolled a 37 or higher on all your Knowledge checks against this enemy but you still don't know anything about it.
>Just stop rolling Knowledge checks, I know you put all your skill points into them but I'm not telling you what the monsters are, figure it out yourself.
>Hey, I only said PHB only for PLAYER characters. The GMPCs can be whatever I feel is appropriate.

All the same guy. Worst GM I've ever had, and that's counting the guy who let me get Party Killed for no reason within 15 minutes of the first session.

>>54974222

I'd skip out after the second one.

>>54968482
>my character controlled light magic, i tried to hire a lensmaker to help me make a laser cannon
>gm was very wary of me ever since i obliterated another campaign with a busted character
>he just kept telling me i can't do it. i asked for a concrete reason:
>"i don't want this campaign to reach ridiculous scales of power!"
>let one player's backstory be that he stole fire magic from the gods
>said player murdered a dragon in the third session
>got away with murdering british guardian spirits, casting britain into eternal winter
>new player joined, his character was a literal demigod. GM did not object
>encounter several renowned golem artisans in a palace.
>at this point we're all loaded because the we know the emperor himself
>i ask them if i could commission a piece from them, money is no object
>GM instantly has them all run away and tells us we have to go meet with the king now

>>54974222
>Hey, I only said PHB only for PLAYER characters. The GMPCs can be whatever I feel is appropriate.
this one is at least reasonable. he gets 1/7

>>54974527

>GMPC

>Reasonable

>>54974222
The last one is how a good group plays btw

>>54974565
>ad hominem reddit space attack
i don't think GMPCs = death of player agency if it's done right personally, but yeah i get why everyone hates them
>tfw the best GMPC i've ever had was a sentient car

>>54974345
I wish I had too. Wasted literal years on his trash GMing because Roll20 didn't exist yet and finding an English-speaking game where I live is basically impossible.

>>54974527
His GMPC was a D&D 3.5 Warblade who fought with (and performed Maneuvers with) matchlock pistols in an otherwise 8th century tech setting. Still think it's reasonable when compared to the party Monk?

>>54974674
So it's fine to restrict the PCs to Player's Handbook Only and full casters banned, but it's okay for the rest of the world to include Warblades, Sorcerers, Psions, and so forth? How are the PCs important or interesting in your story when 80% of adventurers are better than them in every way, and would in fact complete this quest in hours instead of months if the GM didn't have them refuse to help at every turn?

>>54974720
GMPCs can be great. The game I'm currently in has an ocean-themed Cleric who manages party funds, arranges our transportation, and is generally a real help in combat. She's always half the party's level so it never feels like the GM is trying to upstage us. The GM has given us several chances to leave her behind and seek other 'hirelings' but we've grown attached to her.

>>54969735
What's the problem here?

>>54974886
I think it's just meant to be frustrating? But it's frustrating in a dramatic way, so I dunno

>>54974886
see>>54969818

>>54969273
Guilty of the last one sometimes, my roommate is one of the players and sometimes I get excited when I'm working on stuff.

>>54969735
Sense Motive is a non-magical ability. How are you supposed to know someone's lying if he himself doesn't know?

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>>54974886
He's assblasted because the DM added some dramatic tension to the narrative. He's confessing to being a crybaby, basically

>>54974842
i assumed his character was stupid, but exotic GMPCs aren't inherently bad imo

the car GMPC is pretty silly. it's self driving so it's the perfect getaway vehicle, it can pick up supplies on it's own, but it's programmed to obey the laws of robotics so you can't attach weaponry to aimbot or run over people intentionally

>>54975135
You're not wrong, but on the other hand, what's the point in having the skill if there's no guarantee it will work and even clear success can be nullified by what is essentially DM fiat?

>>54975402
>what's the point in having the skill if there's no guarantee it will work

I don't think a possibility of failure makes things not worthwhile.

>>54975402
The skill did work. It wasn't DM fiat. You were misinformed. Do you also get angry when someone gets the wrong answer on a TV Quiz show? Of course you do, you're posting on 4chan

>>54973610
>235 respondents
I don't even disagree but that's a crap sample size.

>>54973796
People don't tend to lie on anonymised questionnaires. It also makes total sense, the middle and upper classes are far more receptive to public health campaigns.

>>54975250
GMPCs aren't inherently bad, and I made that point. What I'm saying is that >>54974527 is wrong, it's not reasonable for a GM to restrict the Fighter to crappy 1d8 + 3 longsword swings every turn while his GMPC is busting out flaming energy swipes and performing sick counter attacks while sporting an equal AC and hit points. I think there's a special place in hell reserved for GMs who make GMPCs that are just other PCs, only better in every way and constantly showing them up as a sign of dominance.

>>54974565
I use gmpcs because my group is two people bit and some ghosting asshole.

But i treat them fairly, though one of my players hates them with a passion.

>>54973610
If you believe the tv that's because of profiling.

>>54975402
If you're trying to tell if someone's lying or having hidden motives, that's Sense Motive or whatever.
If you're trying to tell whether a fact is true, that's a passive Knoweldge (Topic) check (or whatever 3e uses) to determine whether you can immediately tell it's false.
Then you can also do a regular Knowledge (Topic) check if you're doing, say, research in a library, to determine how good you are at information gathering.
Obviously it's up to the DM to hint at the veracity of information, whether it's mistakes in NPC exposition or traps in dungeon.

>>54974720
Can someone explain this "reddit spacing" meme? I genuinely don't understand what it is or why it's such a big deal.

>>54977740
Big spaces between lines from what I can tell

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>>54968482
>actions have consequences
haha sure they do, buddy

sure they do

>>54977740
It's not really a big deal.

It just gets on people's nerves for some reason.

People on Reddit space their posts like this, apparently.

I wouldn't know, I don't browse it often.

>>54977740
you have to double space to make new lines in reddit and if you post on reddit long enough you start to double space things out of pure habit

the meme is that you can identify reddit users because they double space nonstop

>>54969818
reminds me of a campaign i ran
>player was bound by magic code to follow specific orders
>perpetually kept trying to loophole around the wording of the orders
>interrogates a guy and uses truth magic or some shit
>literal words were "are there any more of you onboard?"
>guy responds no, magic deems it to be a truthful statement
>later on the npc's friends show up
>player calls me out on this
>"he told you the truth. there are no more of HIM on the ship besides him. nothing wrong with this statement"
>proceeds to argue with me about how that line of reasoning is bullshit

>>54974429
Perfectly reasonable.

1. If you've ruined a prior campaign (or even if you haven't) the GM saying that something is too powerful for his world is an acceptable meta-reason for vetoing something.
2. How does your character know that concentrated light will make a laser? And how does he know the dimensions and shape of the lens which will create this effect?

>>54973610
Where/when was this survey possibly done? 77.9% of the respondents don't drink? 63.4% are married, and only 12.7% are divorced? And wouldn't <8 years of school mean that nearly half of them left school before they were teenagers?

Plus, the group with the highest median income is the entire sample, which means that the highest earners are ex-smokers.

>>54973610
Marketing major here, the fact that you got 81 female non-smokers and 33 male non-smokers is a rather large variance. The 29 to 15 male/female smoker ratio isn't incredibly horrible but it DOES skew things and it brings me into question where and how this survey was conducted. You can very easily skew the data any way you want by sampling at, say, an area around a women's university.

I'm not saying this study is wrong, I'm just saying the sample they got could be wildly different from the city it was taken in, not to mention the state/province/country. I live in the wealthiest most anglo part of Quebec, if I did a survey on education level, income, and feelings on a referendum they'd be massively different from a survey done 5 km. down the road.

It's the unfortunate truth that surveys like this are only really true about the location they were immediately performed in, and sometimes not even that. And I hate smoking so that has nothing to do with it.

>>54973610
Playing D&D with beers and pizza is even less of an upper class thing.

I like to smoke weed with my group, what social class does that depict me as?

>>54974429
When your GM is more scared of you with a box of scraps then he is of a Dragonslayer and a Demigod, he probably has good cause.
I do the same with my players. One, the least creative guy you will ever meet, could walk in with a character sheet saying he knows every spell that has ever existed and I'd let him play it. Another I think twice about giving him a rope because he will probably find a way to trick the enemy into hanging themselves with it.

>>54969273
>dude i wish could tell you this cool shit i thought of
I run my players separately but in the same setting (This is much easier to pull off over internet chat.), and I regularly discuss my plans for the other players with the guys I know won't leak anything or metagame.

>>54978749
>1. If you've ruined a prior campaign (or even if you haven't) the GM saying that something is too powerful for his world is an acceptable meta-reason for vetoing something.
yeah, he was definitely in the right by not giving me a solar beam. i just wanted something more flavorful than "no you can't"
i was more salty about the GM basically not letting me do anything except cast flare on enemies while letting everyone else be actual demigods

>2. How does your character know that concentrated light will make a laser? And how does he know the dimensions and shape of the lens which will create this effect?
laser is a poor word, it was more of a glorified magnifying glass. my character wouldn't know much about lensmaking, hence why he sought out craftsmen to help him.
he knows at least the concept because it the campaign took place in a historical setting past the development of optics, and my character was a well educated doctor

>>54974842
To be fair, PHB full casters should be banned when playing 3.5. But the best way to balance the system is honestly just to ban core material in general.

>>54968482
Bring disguises, cardstock fake IDs and new PCs. After you die put on a disguise at the table and take out a fake ID and character sheet. You now can continue play.

>>54978215
But that's not true because double spacing has existed long before reddit.

>>54968482
>If your characters die, you wont be able to partake in the campaign anymore.
No one says this.

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>>54970296
>high-lethality game
>if a PC dies, the player must give the GM a gift

>>54982103
in a short campaign it would be doable

>>54978281
He's probably the kind of character who would get mad when a poorly-worded Wish backfired on him, too. In other words, a massive faggot.

>>54982091
It's almost like chan's witch hunting of redditfags is not entirely logical.

>>54979007
Anti-smoking propaganda has been built from the ground up on erroneous and twisted statistics and, in many cases, outright fucking lies. This is nothing new for these people.

>>54977740
>Can someone explain this "reddit spacing" meme?
just ignore it, it's spouted by idiots who try to force the meme

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>>54982420
No, redditfags are still scum for the most part. The illogical part is how certain types use the word "reddit" to mean "thing I don't like", diluting and obfuscating the word and the reasoning behind the criticism of said redditfags.

The conspiracy theorist in me wants to say that this is actually the long-term plan of a Redditor of above-average intelligence, to normalize and breed acceptance of Reddit customs and patterns on an anonymous imageboard. The realist in me says it's just more newfags running more buzzwords into the ground because they're fucking dumb.

>>54974720
>implying the GM should also play a character
>implying the GM needs more screentime than he already has
>implying that "GMPCs" doesn't carry negative connotations and that useful sidecharacters aren't called "party henchman" or "support NPC"

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>>54974720
My nog.

>>54982830
I can barely handle managing a consistent world with NPCs that can, for the most part, be accurately described in a sentence to a paragraph, i don't see how a person could do that AND have a meaningful long term party member, all while keeping them entirely seperate.

>>54969273
GM, can confirm.

>>54976975
>>54975402
Sounds like they weren't lying, they were wrong.

That said a good GM (so definitely not me, for one) will make sure to clearly state when knowledge is objectively true ("you hit for 4 damage") and when it's in-universe information ("they don't appear to be lying").

I usually respond to perception rolls with "you don't notice anything." By comparison, I respond to unneccesary perception rolls with "there is nothing here."

Oh yeah, and I use the "are you sure you want to do that" meme liberally. Not as a 'you're going off the rails' warning but to let players know that what they're about to do is irrevoccable.

>>54968572
your reasoning was
>so you put effort and care into your campaign world that you want people to see and participate in, and if a player loses a character they aren't allowed to see it ever again

>>54982171
>>54970296
Sounds good to me. If you die, you've got to bring some top-tier snacks next game or bring some minis. If nobody dies the GM does it.

You'd need a decent group who'd played together a while, though.

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>>54974222
>>Just stop rolling Knowledge checks, I know you put all your skill points into them but I'm not telling you what the monsters are, figure it out yourself.

>>54983190
>Gazebo.jrpg

>>54982977
So you disagree with me? Because you can't imagine a multi-faceted character that doesn't take the screentime of the players for him/her/itself?

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>>54969537
>Smoking GM's.
>Stops every 5-10 minutes for a smoke break

>>54983718
Jesus christ that fucking kills me everytime. Our shadowrun GM pulled that shit EVERY fucking session. Come to think of it, I think thats why we stopped playing(he was also often late).

>>54983718
>>54983853
If a guy's smoking every five to ten minutes, he's stressed as all hell. From what I've learned about /tg/ over the past decade, the biggest stressor GMs face is a group of terrible players.

>>54983980
To be fair, I think the guy was dealing with mental health issues at the time(depression I think).

>>54982496
Cry more redditfag

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>>54984157
>everything wrong with reddit
>cry more redditfag
what did he mean by this

>>54976629
Trust me, as someone who is high society there is a lot of smoking going on. They'll just not admit it, or say it's just social or occasional.

>>54975402
>we only asked one person for information about something important
>what do you mean they were wrong?

Are you sure?

Are you -realllllllly- sure?

>>54978149
yeah, should have brought my manipulated dice.
there is no honor when it comes to life and death

>>54982091
Not on 4chan.

>>54984573
The fuck it hasn't, dumdum. I've been here for over a decade.

"Reddit spacing" doesn't exist, and you're a fag.

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Have lots of boring ass moments during a campaign then complain why people do stupid shit in order to entertain themselves.

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>>54968482
My dm just decided recwntly that hes scrapping our 5e campaign we've been playing for months to start a new one because hes somehow got the idea that dming isn't about creating a story for the PCs to be involved in. Rather he thinks dropping us in an open world and giving us no direction will work better, and that the only job of a DM is to create encounters and dungeons. No idea where this came from, until now he was a really good DM who came up with interesting and engaging plot elements and didn't railroad us at all

>>54984817
That sounds a lot like the well dried up and he's leaving town before everyone realises what happened.

>>54984817
Sounds like burnout to me.

>>54984875
>>54984931
He made it pretty clear the past few sessions that he had a lot more content planned. The dudes pretty impressionable when it comes to the opinions of people he respects. I get the feeling he was listening to some youtuber he likes with shitty opinions and changed his mind about how dming works or something like that

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>this entire thread

>>54985009
Did you tell him what you wrote us? >>54984817

>>54986223
More or less yeah, just kind of repeats himself that he doesn't think DMing is about telling a story and that he wants us to do the work in that regard. I'm not entirely disagreeing with him that the pcs should help determine the path we take, but at the end of the day the DM is there to provide the farmework and guidance for us to actually do anything

>>54976215
But that's exactly why I don't play slot machines, or other games I can't stack in my favor.

>>54969273

Last one gets me every time. Can't wait for my players to go meet the dwarves