Exalted General

Anyone have a link to the Anathema program that works? The link in the OP refuses to load the download page properly, just giving a file not found error.

>>54961217

Yeah, Anathema for 2e is dead. Try this link.

http://www.mediafire.com/file/otjvdgewlfcnc13/Anathema.rar

Anyone get a chance to copy/write down the Warstrider previews from Gencon?

Can eclipse caste oaths carry over reincarnations?

So what do you guys think of the new Limit Trigger system, where you don't have a set limit break but get one that's narrative appropriate? Do you have any stories of limit breaking?

In warstrider news, someone from Gencon has given more information about a Warstrider he saw.

- It has 5x -0, 10x -1, 10x -2, -4, and Incap HL's

- The first evocation it has allows you to roll your current initiative when hit with a decisive attack and add that amount of hardness to your warstrider, losing only the amount of initiative equal to the hardness gained.

>>54964030

Better than the old system. But I don't think anyone liked the old system what with it's "perfectly fine and then sudden, explosive retardation that looks funny to literally anyone with half a brain".

>>54960998
Is everyone in that tutorial thing gay?

>>54966105
>is everyone in Exalted gay
No, but pretty much everybody is bi to some degree.

I could have sworn that, at some point, Mists of Eventide received either official or unofficial errata to not be the thing that it is. Did I dream this? Is it really still "you crash you lose: somnambulant puppet edition"?

Assuming that it is, it activates if you're crashed "while suffering its effects" - as a gas, that means pretty much if you're in it at all unless you've got special circumstances or you roll well enough to nuke its duration to 0, yes?

>>54966124
Was specifically referring to the 2e tutorial up there, where the MC, her several wives, and the earth dragon blooded are all lesbians with no interest in men, while all the guys seem to be gay (especially the king who replaces the guys in the court with women so he won't be tempted). Like, really, how do they manage to have babies?

>>54966254
Neomah.

When you poison a battlegroup with gas or a big tub of arsenic or whatever, what happens? Their Initiative doesn't change ever, right?

>>54966254
>>54966124

>Like, really, how do they manage to have babies?

In the Realm at least, due to the necessities of politik and breeding new Dragonbloods, sex has nothing to do with attraction. Individuals with good pedigree's get studded or mare'd out by their families, marriages are strictly political. Homosexuality is actually seen as being advantageous because you can't accidentally a bastard that fucks with dynastic politics.

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What books/movies/etc would you suggest for getting a feel on the First Age?

>>54966811
Lots of Light, Quantum Thief, Neuromancer

>>54966836
Lord of Light, you mean?

>>54966927
Yes

>>54964030
It fits much better with the lore of Solars. The old system was obvious as hell because your solars would snap between normal and baby eating monster.

What happened to a Solar's/an Exalted's holdings when one passed away in the First Age?

>>54968298
It varied with the asset. The lands owned by the previous holder of your Exaltation would normally be yours to rule as you see fit, as well as the Dragon-Blooded house that serves keepers of your Exaltation. Anything else is returned to the Deliberative's ownership upon death, unless the contrary was outlined in a last will and testament.

>>54966252

It's weaker in the core book than it is in the link, requiring you spend one point of WP per person controlled.

>that means pretty much if you're in it at all unless you've got special circumstances or you roll well enough to nuke its duration to 0, yes?

Basically, yes.

>>54961385
Only this bit from the last thread:

- Warstriders cost 15 motes to attune
- Artifact 5 or N/A
- Require a Greater Hearthstone to power
- -3 penalty to physical actions if you do not have the right lore and athletics specialization for your 'strider
- Counts as Heavy Armor for the purposes of Martial Arts
- Things that modify your personal strength, soak, armor etc do not affect the 'strider
- Things that modify things like non-personal armor rating, soak, attack, damage, etc. still work
- Warstrider weapons all use Artifact Weapon stats due to being YUUUUGE
- Gain a -4 penalty to attack and spot human-sized targets
- Have the Legendary Size merit (reference the T-Rex)
- Can reflexively attack terrain or battle-groups once per turn
- Warstrider's strength rating is based on your strength rating, but it's always buffed (i.e. Str5 -> Str10 while Str1 -> Str 6 or something? Table to reference.)
- Warstriders have their own damage track, soak and hardness
- The Pilot is not normally attack-able while inside, outside of a specific Gambit
- Gains a +2 speed bonus
- Does not roll to disengage from human-sized or smaller opponents
- Warstriders are heavy and automatically smash things
- But on the other side, if you have those kinda Charms, you can use Graceful Crane Stance and similar
- Requires Craft (First Age Artifacts) to maintain, must maintain for every ten hours of cumulative damage or suffer damage (One die of decisive per ten hours)
- Repairing even a single health level is considered a Major Project

>>54961401
This one is usually house-ruled.
You could argue for both, with some pretty fair points, and reach no conclusion.
I'm for it to carry over, since it's the Eclipse's whole spiel, but some do consider death to be the ender of all such effects.

>>54969458
That major project for every health level really hurts. It would make sense to me if the health level repairs became more and more serious the further you went down the tracks. So at -0 it's just repairing the armor, at -1 you have to repair some damaged electronics but it's nothing to big, and by the time you're at the -4 level you're having to do structural repairs of the entire warstrider which are a big project. With the way it's apparently set up scratches on your warstriders paint job are being treated as seriously as it having an arm torn off.

>>54970114
I am so glad I houseruled Craft. Fuck Project slots.

>>54970114
>That major project for every health level really hurts.

That's not what it says.

>- Repairing even a single health level is considered a Major Project

Does not tell us anything about how repairing more than one health level is handeled. For all we know, multiple health levels might be repaired with the same Major project.

>>54970173
>Does not tell us anything about how repairing more than one health level is handeled. For all we know, multiple health levels might be repaired with the same Major project.
Yeah but if you need to do a Major Project for minor damage then it feels like it's just going to not be worth it.

>>54968924
Thanks.

What are the different factions and their goals in the First Age Deliberate?

>>54969563
Does death of an oathee end the oath on their part, or is the ghost subject to it as well?

>>54970114
>scratches on your warstriders paint job

Those are the result of initiative damage, not actual health levels lost. I can see them as basically being free Basic Projects fodder.

>>54970313
A health level is not "minor damage" by definition. "Minor damage" is the result of initiative damage.

>>54970472
I would say it's still on their ghost. It's their soul after all. Just half of it without a body.

>>54970563
That actually brings up another question for me. Does Exalted have both the hun and po souls reincarnate together, does only one reincarnate, or can they split and reincarnate in different people? Or is this one of those areas left vague for storytellers to write their own details.

>>54970647
Po souls are always brand new. Its why Hungry Ghosts and burial rituals are such a problem. The person could have reincarnated but his Hungry Ghost is just stuck with his corpse.

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>>54970450
Faithful
Unionists - Trying to campaign for a singular (Solar) leader for the whole Deliberative
Militants
Cauldronists
Divisives

>>54970244
but that also doesn't make sense if it takes the same amount of time even if you have 1 damage and 15 dmg.

>>54970114
this anon's approach is better. Really makes you think what your actions will be before you ruin your fancy toy

>>54970563
The Cycle of Reincarnation is pretty much supposed to cleanse the soul completely. And the oath is made with one's soul.
So, the oath would remain if the Eclipse were to die, because it's tied to the oathee's soul.
The Eclipse is only the bureaucrat, sealing the pact and setting up the conditions.
Meanwhile, one or more parties who engage in the pact are beholden to it until they die

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>>54970810
>this anon's approach is better. Really makes you think what your actions will be before you ruin your fancy toy

Is there a decent kingdom management and mass war system or should I just homebrew it?

>>54971556
Homebrew. There is a business management thing from 2e that was not bad but I would not use it for a Kingdom. You may want to look there for inspiration.

Deathlords are the First Age insane Solar ghosts and Deathknights are the Abyssal Exalted, wasn't it?

>>54971705
Yes

>>54970810
>the same amount of time

>The character must work for a period deemed appropriate by the Storyteller, usually ranging from several hours to several days—occasionally, a major project might even require weeks of labor!

Major Projects don't all take the same amount of time.

>>54969458

>Warstrider weapons all use Artifact Weapon stats due to being YUUUUGE

Are they all heavy weapons, too?

>Counts as Heavy Armor for the purposes of Martial Arts
>Can reflexively attack terrain or battle-groups once per turn

White Reaper Style in one of these will be a sight to see.

>Immaculate Order was a postal service before becoming a state religion
Guidebook of Meru worth it if only for that image.

>>54971879
What's this about?

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>>54972100
In the Guidebook to Meru, one of the postal services recommended is the Immaculate Order of Postal Carriers.

Why does craft XP require you to make like twenty horseshoes before you can make a robot? I might not be understanding this right but it basically looks like you have to grind small crafts to make big ones.

>>54972397

Dev's played way too much Skyrim and thought it was a good idea. Same reason why the combat system is literally Dissidia's.

>>54970114

>-1 you have to repair some damaged electronics
>electronics

Egh.

>>54972780
Essence Channels that do the same thing then.

What are the naming conventions for Autochtonia and Malfeas?

>>54972999
Same as elsewhere. And it varies sometimes from state to state. I personally like to give Autochtonians German or Russian names.

>>54970114

It DOES get more serious, though. The guy who reported all that also said that the difficulty of that project was 3 + the wound penalty of the health level being repaired. There's also an additional +3 modifier if you substitute Craft(Artifacts) instead of First Age Artifice.

Ramping up to Difficulty 10 (Or 7 even with the correct skill) does a nice job of justifying broken down, but still salvageable striders being stuck in a hangar someplace given how few people in the setting can make that kind of roll.

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>>54973348
>There's also an additional +3 modifier if you substitute Craft(Artifacts) instead of First Age Artifice.

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>>54973348
>making the already shitty Craft system even worse by turning it into 1E Crafts where every little fucking thing needed it's entire own skill to do

Morke and Holden didn't get fired fast e-fucking-nough.

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>>54972388
>In the First Age you had mortals whose job was to groom and take care of demons
Fascinating.

>For a nominal fee, animals in the Conservatory of Unexpected Lifeforms are available to private collectors and research laboratories who believe they can find a use for the misbegotten beasts. Whether your needs are academic, culinary, predatory, or coital, the managers of the Conservatory ask no questions

>The Singing Garden
>At its centre is an enormous construction of crystal, Orichalcum, and Green Jade that consists of a circular organ console surrounded by crystal cylinders of varying heights. Within each cylinder is a mortal of exquisite beauty attached to a Green Jade frame that fits in the base of the cylinder. Each cylinder is connected to a key on the circular organ console. When a key is pressed, the corresponding cylinder's mortal projects a single precise note that the crystal amplifies to stage volume. Each key likewise controls the movement of the cylinder's base through the labyrinthine patterns that line the stage. When Sonah plays the organ console, the crystal cylinders seem to sing and dance in a most intricate and ingenious way.

>>54973803
>Whether your needs are academic, culinary, predatory, or coital,
"Or"?

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>>54973857

>>54973964
You don't study, fuck, hunt, and then eat your prey?

>>54974125
No I hunt, fuck, study, eat my prey

>>54960998
Jesus christ those dick-sucking lips.

What Charms and Specialties do I need to play vid related with the serial numbers carefully filed off?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sBUWLMbuTgo

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>>54973857

"I'm gonna fuck that Blood Ape, and nothin' is gonna stop me."

>>54974439

Haven't seen much of Adam Warren's work, have you? Go check it out, great artist.

>>54975173
.t Lunars

>>54975062

Baiken'd be a DB at best. She's strong, but the real heavy hitters of GG are leagues above her. Shit, Slayer's so goddamn strong he'd probably count as a Deathlord or elder Abyssal/Solar/whatever if he ever bothered to actually fight seriously.

>>54972999

Malfeas is inconstent, but it tends toward Hungarian-sounding names more than anything else.

>>54975235
I figure with Malfeas it depends where you are.
Lieger and Loli-Prostitute Sol Invictus probably have diffrent names for their stuff.

>>54966446
>marriages are strictly political.

Outdated 2e nonsense

>>54975292
>Loli-Prostitute Sol Invictus
What

>>54970244
Each health level is its own major project, this was repeated on the forums by another guy who went to Gen-Con.

>>54975680
>When it takes her fancy, Ipithymia takes a mortal form and moves among her patrons and employees. Other times, she might be summoned to Creation to aid a sorcerer in the arts of seduction, power-brokering and the breaking of the human spirit. Everywhere she goes, lust and debauchery escalates. Where she passes, the scent of sex and opiates hangs in the air. Her favorite form is that of a golden-skinned, four-armed young woman in the scant clothing of a dancer or courtesan. In this form, she appears young, usually a bit too young for her highly sexualized dress and manner
In Malfeas red light districts are Yellow Light districts like the light of the sun and are run by the incarnation of his sexuality who is a loli-prostitue version of Sol Invictus.

>>54966836
>Neuromancer
Fucking what? I never read Lords of Light or Quantum Thief, but Neuromancer has fuck all to do with the First Age. The First Age's aesthetic was that of a high fantasy, holy mayan-aztec-incan super society that was still largely rural, with magitech showing up in some spots. Neuromancer is all about broken down, cobbled together urban-industrial cities and space stations populated by squirming, flawed, animalistic humans, only some of which have suped themselves up into machine-like hyper puissance. Those augmented people are the protagonists and antagonists, but unlike Exalts, there's literally nothing glorious about them. They're frighteningly capable, but they're also miserable, lonely, dysfunctional, bad people who pack either the cyberpunk look or no look at all. I guess the plot of Neuromancer could fit into the First Age if you changed some things, but the most important part of William Gibson's writing was always the characters and the dismal "we're rebelling even though we know it won't accomplish anything" tone, followed by the ideas of what truly high tech could do to society.

>>54969458
-4 to hit human targets, really?

That's stupid as shit. If anything, anything human sized fighting it should take 1 automatic bashing because of fucking debris and shit being kicked up.

I know what I'm houseruling first.

>>54976596

I think one of the archery charms which negates penalties can negate this actually. Making ranged Warstriders super-snipers.

>>54976596
I like it, gives Exalts a real chance to Rules of Nature the fucking things while keeping warstriders in their proper purpose as anti-army and anti-giant weapons.

>>54976596

It makes sense. One human is a small target. So you hitting him fare and square is hard. But I think there should be some area damage. (Maybe I missed you but that wall behind you is now collapsing on your head. )

>>54977975
Bullshit, a beer can is a "small target" compared to a person but I can still kick one. The rules assumes 'striders have to be slow, and that's stupid.

>cans don't move
And that's reflected in the Dodge defense, so it's still not a reason for a penalty.

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>>54977975

Yeah man, those ants sure are hard to hit with my giant human foot.

>>54978102
>>54978128

You are assuming that warstriders have the same reaction speed as you do. Also you assume warstiders give you access to perfect vision without hindrance.

You are forgetting Warstriders were prettymuch Guymelef (Vision of Escaflowne) with serial numbers shaved off.

>>54978184

https://youtu.be/OdHaUwf859Y?t=13m31s

20/20 vision

>>54972421

Is it true that the devs said that they didn't play-test it?

>>54978264
>Van looking through little slits
>20/20

Also the dub is cancer

>>54978307
Does it matter?

>>54978184
>assuming that warstriders have the same reaction speed as you do

>assume warstiders give you access to perfect vision without hindrance.

And there's no reason they shouldn't, not in Exalted.

>>54978463

I guess not, but it would explain quite a bit.

>>54978184

So you're going to seriously try and argue that a 5 dot plus artifact meant for open warfare is gonna be so fucking poorly constructed that it's going to 1: Not be able to react in time so it can be easily overwhelmed, and 2: offer a shitty field of vision.

Because both of those things are gonna get you killed a battlefield. Just face it, it's just bad game design, thats been held over for three full editions now. Stop trying to defend garbage decisions, it's why nothing will ever improve in this game line.

>>54978694
>Not be able to react in time so it can be easily overwhelmed

Yeah. Tanks are so useless in modern warfare. Their main cannon can't hit single soldiers worth shit. And soldiers can easily overwhelm them.

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>>54978428

It was sarcasm. They are bitching about -4 penalty and warstriders not being slow. They forget 2 previous editions and inspiration for warstriders

>>54978731

Actually, tanks get fucked up pretty hard by infantry in real life. Thats why they're deployed with infantry and not by themselves. Because they'd get flanked and a bunch of grenades and rockets pounded into them.

Also you're doubly retarded for trying to compare a tank to a giant mecha that's filled to the bring with magical bullshittery.

>>54978814
Well we don't know their magical bullshittery. We are just talking about the basic power of a warstrider. Which is essentially a tank. When we get evocations we will have the magical bullshittery.

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>>54978466

Well they are reasons and these reasons are stated in both 1st and 2nd edition.

>A Dragonblooded in a warstrider encounters a Solar

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-_ZeD40Rg8A

>>54978694
But why does bad design matter? Rule 0 was made to fix examples like this.

>>54978694
Mechanically speaking, the reason why it has a -4 to hit ground opponents is overtly simple: So that every fight where it is at all viable doesn't turn into "Immediately get the Warstrider".

Warstriders are meant to be strong, not a straight combat upgrade in every way except for size and subtlety. And when you're at the point where you can regularly deploy and maintain a warstrider, you're probably not too worried about subtlety.

>>54978694

Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it was bad design.

Warstrider was never meant to be a break-dancing ninja. Its job is to help you punch things that you usually wouldn't be able to punch. If you want want to be a 18 feet tall ballerina then I would suggest investing in creating a Sorcery and convert Enlarge spell from dungeons and dragons.

>>54978981
Kenshiro always struck me more as a Sidereal of Endings.
>Bullshit Martial Arts
>Telling people to the second when they'll die because of his martial arts

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>>54979201
>the most important thing in Exalted is to hit consistently in this edition to build Init so you can steamroll
>make gigantic hunk of shit that can't hit a damn thing at all
>people defending this garbage
>at over 5 dots of cost
>AND requiring your own personal Solar crafter to keep it in working order if you so much as scuff the paint on it

At this point my only hope is that they don't spend too many pages on this trash, since they probably won't revise it to not be absolute garbage.

>>54975367
Marriages being predominantly political makes perfect sense. The books go into detail about how the parents and Houses in general try to make matches that will work, they don't want a husband and wife to hate each other. You get less babies this way.

Betrothals also last a long time, over a decade isn't strange, which lets the betrothed get to know each other and warm up to one another. Marriage for love can happen but usually love is simply a happy accident or a truly well made match instead of the actual goal.

>>54979624

>AND requiring your own personal Solar crafter to keep it in working order if you so much as scuff the paint on it

Better than sharing your own health levels for some reason.

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>>54979701

Yet it shares your strength for some reason?

>>54979266
Can you even read?

>Commanding Green Sun Implication
>Cost:??? motes
>Essence ???
>The Warlocks writings carry the unceasing will of Malfeas and cause even subtle implication to leap off the page to his servants. By activating this charm while writing the Warlock gains the ability to hide secret messages within his words. To those with a intimacy of terrified awe towards the warlock and to those who can see essence these words appear as flaming green letters leaping off the page, however only those with the intimacy are capable of reading them. The messages created by this charm may be as complicated as the user wishes and command the reader to be obedient or face the Infenral's wrath.

>just finished a two year game
>All the PC's were happy with the game

Best feeling a GM can have is a job well done.

>>54975235
hell being Eastern Europe explains a lot

>>54978694
A 5 dot Artifact made for fighting armies and fuckhuge creatures is pretty great for fighting armies and fuckhuge creatures. Whether it's also great for duels with human-sized targets moving as fast as a competent Exalted warrior doesn't really matter much, not in terms of whether warstriders are "poorly contructed", because that's not what they're contructed for. I'll also reiterate the point that Warstriders should be comparale to other Artifact 5s. Too strong a set of benefits before Evocations are factored in would make this hard. Warstriders being just plain better than other Artifacts of the same rating would be truly bad game design.

>>54981321
They shouldn't be rated 5 because that gives the players the vain hope that they will ever start with one.

Yeah, yeah Artifact 5s are subject to GM approval but if a Warstrider is never approved, which it shouldn't be unless the game is about Warstriders then it doesn't matter what the rating is, it shouldn't be Artifact 5 which gives the illusion of being able to have it.

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>>54980596
Great job dude. It's a good feeling.

>>54975839
Hot

>>54978944
Yeah, note how almost all of those drawbacks say "common design?" It shouldn't apply to First Age technology.

>>54979201
If the warstrider costs enough investment in attunement, hearthstone, maintenance and required abilities to use, then why the fuck not?

>>54981321
So you add other costs. Required skills, charms, more hearthstones for more powerful striders, limit charm use while piloting, make it worth using, but also make the choice to use it really matter.

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>>54981321
>I'll also reiterate the point that Warstriders should be comparale to other Artifact 5s

But it's not an Artifact 5. It's an Artifact 5 that requires a moderate to fairly powerful Hearthstone, a crafter to fix it, eating fairly big Acc penalties for a nonsensical reason, and costing more motes to power it than a set of regular armor+a weapon. And thats before you even DO anything with the thing. It's understatted and overcosted. It has been in every edition so far. In every edition, Warstriders have been absolute garbage because people like you keep thinking piling on disadvantages on something you're, at this point, devoting SIGNIFICANT RESOURCES towards having, is somehow a good thing. If you have to focus your entire character to using one thing, and it's STILL garbage, you've fucked up at the design table.

>>54982765
Literally none of the drawbacks are particularly bad, and the accuracy penalty makes absolute sense. Blog about it, bitch. 3e Warstriders are awesome.

>>54982519
Because the game is called Exalted, not Warstrider.

That said, the cost investment is pretty heavy, but every high level fight being decided by Warstrider combat is heavily against genre, thematics, and really much of the game in general, seeing as this isn't a Mecha RPG.

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>>54982997
>and the accuracy penalty makes absolute sense

So why don't big creatures eat a big accuracy penalty then?

>>54983147

Their accuracy pools compared to an Exalt are shit to begin with.

A Tyrant Lizard has a bite of 11 ACC, an Exalt is going to hit 13 with a stunt easily with an artifact heavy weapon even.

>>54983267
Partially this, partially that warstriders are a tad worse at fine movement than most living creatures their size.

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What's /eg/'s opinion of Exaltwitch?
https://youtu.be/woQuG6NfQJk

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>>54984089
>Allows me to experience Exalted without playing it
I for one love it.

>>54982765
Getting an extra attack against terrain/battlegroups every turn is insanely good. Doubles up your action economy.

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>>54970450
>>54970749
>The Cauldronists - They hope to gain enough political power to reshape, remake, and recreate Creation like it's the Wyld, from its very core.
>The Faithful - Moderates. Solar's duty is to care and run Creation, which they think is being neglected by the pursuits of pleasure, personal glory and short-sighted agendas.
>Copper Web - A group of Twilights who wish to dismantle Creation and create separate worlds from the pieces
>The Militants - Promoting larger armies, greater weapons manufacturing, and so on, to protect the Realm from its enemies that must be mustering for war even as they speak.
>The Unionists - Not a party by themselves, but a number of groups and people who believe the Realm is best governed by a single Solar ruler in the vein of M—R—L—, who is one of the two with most support, the other being the Hierophant.
>The Divisives - The Solars should be free to do as they please, for it is their right.
>The Fugitives - The Deliberative is corrupt and unredeemable, so take as little part in it as possible.

I think people some people are treating legendary size as a freebee and ignoring how potent it's going to be on an Exalt.

I forget, do Solars double the successes on 10s or do they count that as a success and get to roll the die again?

>>54984981
10s count as two successes, except on decisive damage rolls (barring magic that allows double 10s on decisive damage).

>>54982997
This, it's like a big Bull Rush feat chain in 3.5 and hardly anyone disliked that. High investment and low payout shows you care about ROLEplaying.

>>54984952
They are also trying to make Warstriders something they are not. They want better suits of armor. They got a strategic weapons platform meant to support infantry. Almost like the stated design role in 1e.

>>54970647
>>54970647
Only the Hun reincarnates. The Po evaporates into raw essence (if it doesn't become a Hungry Ghost). That's the essence that gets harvested by certain kill charms.

That's why a person can end up with wildly different passions and emotions between incarnations, despite the higher personality remaining the same.

Is an eclipse like a mini Calibration? What kind of fuckery takes place when Luna is blocking the sun's face by mooning the Unconquered Sun?

>>54985566
Given their relative positions? I assume the doggie style and perhaps him taking the backdoor.
Whatever works for them.

>>54985681
I more meant what happens down on Creation during their quickie, but your point stands.

>>54966811
Equilibrium could be a Tributary nation experiment of an old Solar

>>54984089
Haven't heard of it before

>>54985566
Not really - it's highly auspicious, so pretty much the opposite of Calibration

>>54985566

Solar Eclipses don't happen on a semi-regular, completely predictable basis like they do in reality, they happen when big shit is going down. When the sun was created, it didn't set, there was no night. It was only with the creation of Luna that there was shade, only when the Primordials created an equal to the light of the sun not reach Creation. The other big time that an eclipse happened was when the Jade prison bust open, and the Solar Exalted returned to Creation after a 1,500 year absence.

>>54979624
>the most important thing in Exalted is to hit consistently in this edition to build Init so you can steamroll
>make gigantic hunk of shit that can't hit a damn thing at all
It hits just fine against Battle Groups (where you get twice as many attacks) and giant monsters. It just gets an accuracy penalty against lone individuals, like other Exalts.

The job of the Dragonblood in the Warstrider in the Wyld Hunt isn't to go fight your Solars. It's to go smash their army, or to go fight their pet Tyrant Lizard.

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>Waaaaah waaaaah why doesn't my Giant Monsters/Armies-Focused combat artifact doesn't let me fight against single targets as well as it does Giant Monsters/Armies?!

Is there a link somewhere for the new NPC character sheets they´ve bringing out for a while? Been out of the loop due to no internet.

>>54987529
Hum. That's a valid point. Why?

>>54987627
Because it was designed to fight Giant Monsters and Armies. Why do Heavy Melee Weapons have less accuracy then Light Melee Weapons?

>>54987665
Because far too many game designers have chips on their shoulders from high school jocks picking on them so they devalue characters base on physical strength.

>>54987627

There are lots of valid points in the thread. You just don't want to see reason. I bet you are type of player that will bitch about your horse not being able to follow you in the dungeon or climbing a sheer cliff (because all your abilities are invested into mounted combat)

>>54987825
If I had a horse made of semi-indestructible magic metal, with it's own god to serve as an AI, it's own magic abilities, and no logical reason why it can't have hooves that transform into claws that can dig into stone...yeah, I should be able to ride up that cliff face.

>>54985240
>They are also trying to make Warstriders something they are not. They want better suits of armor. They got a strategic weapons platform meant to support infantry.

What people want: Gundams
What they keep getting: Trash.

That seems to be the crux of the issue, and I agree with them on that. These just don't look to be very good rules. They don't feel powerful enough, theres no ease of use in it, you basically need to build an entire character dedicated to using it and nothing else. That reeks of bad game design to me.

>>54987627
>Why does White Reaper not let me fight as well in a duel as it does on a battlefield?

>>54987924
>you basically need to build an entire character dedicated to using it and nothing else
And thanks to the intentional gimping of it outside its (limited) niche, said character isn't going to be doing shit most of the time.

This is why people are complaining, >>54987825, because unlike mounted combat where you don't need to invest everything to keep your horse working, here you DO need to invest everything to keep your strider working. And the horse is still more broadly useful.

>>54987988
>here you DO need to invest everything to keep your strider working.
How so?

>>54987924
>They don't feel powerful enough
Motherfucker, a reflexive attack every turn against battlegroups or environment + legendary size, plus the strength, beefy health track, soak, hardness, powers on attunement and access to Fuck You-grade Evocs doesn't feel powerful enough?

The reflexive attack alone is fucking ridiculous. You're literally able to ruin a Battlegroup for free every turn.

Do you not realise how fucked a War-Supernal is when they find themselves against one of these? Do you think any battlegroup is gonna hold long against something that can attack it once for free every turn for ungodly damage?

>>54987924
A warstrider should be an option like any other, with returns equal to your investment. If two characters with exactly equal XP fight, then their options should be equal. If one of them invests in 'strider based abilities and the resources to operate one, he should be equal to someone who spent their XP on other charms and stats, and went with more modest armor and weapons. One has vastly more strength and soak, the other has more motes to spend on charms, more agility, and more varied gear because his artifact investment isn't so focused. This doesn't mean they have to be capable of the same thing, it means that if they were to fight they should have as even odds as possible.

Here's something I thought up in literally two seconds to show how investment should equal returns.

Common warstrider: -4 to hit
Noble warstrider: -3 to hit
Colossus warstrider: -3 to hit
Scout warstrider: -2 to hit
Royal warstrider: -1 to hit

Wow, how simple. Pay for a more advanced weapon, get better results, don't pay as much and have a less powerful weapon, get worse results. FUCKING NOVEL ISN'T IT?

>>54988032
Maintenance is a thing.

>>54988056
And that's for a field battle. How do you intend to hold a siege against one of these, pray tell? I hope you got more than seven proxy to fend that one off.

>>54988081
Explain to me how major projects are a problem. They're literally the first level of crafting projects past "the shit you do with only one hand while you roll up your joint in the other".

>>54987924

What people want: Gundams
What people got: Magi-tech and atom bombs
People bitched about magi-tech and now we are back to Bronze Age aesthetics.

Also Warstrider was never meant to be a Gundam. Warstider is a huge ass armor that you are able to operate as a marionette. Look for Guymelef if you want warstrider really is.

>>54987924
Reflexive attacks against battlegroups and Legendary Size alone would be enough to justify quite a few drawbacks. Add to that their Evocations - you know, the important part of Warstrider rules people with a brain wait to see before deciding whether Warstriders are powerful enough - and they probably won't be trash.

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>>54988081
Relegate it to the Twilight

>>54988108
Aside from that, they're not even something the guy with a Warstrider has to be able to pull of himself. Just invest in a skilled mortal retainer, or let your Circle's Twilight take care of maintenance for you.

>>54988070
>Wow, how simple. Pay for a more advanced weapon, get better results, don't pay as much and have a less powerful weapon, get worse results. FUCKING NOVEL ISN'T IT?

In a world where people are using spears, swords and catapults you are getting access to a fucking 18 feet tall suit of walking armor and you are complaining about needing even more advanced weapons for it?

>>54988164
>you are getting access to a fucking 18 feet tall suit of walking armor *with a pretty fucking sweet list of inherent benefits before you even start investing in Evocations for it*

Fixed that for you. It's important to stress out the benefits of that Artifact 5 purchase every time it's possible to. These people are bitching about two points and trying to have us all forget about reflexive attacks and a second fucking health track (which, by the way, no other canon Artifact 5 purchase can get you out of the box).

>>54988108

Not that Anon but...

First Age artifice is required to maintain Warstriders. It in turn requires Craft Artifact, among other skills, which has its own prerequisites and can't be picked up by mortals because no Essence use.

Those are a ton of skill points, plus two specialties, plus the combat skills you are actually going to use to pilot plus investing in it's Evocations.

Yes, it's kind of a huge investment.

>>54988426
>Those are a ton of skill points
Which you don't actually have to invest yourself. Have a Circlemate take care of it, or invest in a Retainer or Ally with the necessary skills, or make a sidequest of sorts of finding someone to repair your Warstrider when it's taken too much punishments.

I'm gonna come out and say that Warstriders needing an actual group of people to function properly is entirely logical and absolutely within the themes of Mecha fiction.

The pilot is not the mechanic is not the engineer that concieved the machine.

Giant pieces of complicated military tech requiring infrastructure to use reliably is fine.

>two guys bitch about warstriders followed by 5-6 people defending them the thread

>>54988604
Also known as "People discussing Warstriders". So, basically, people discussing Exalted-related things: the thread. It's almost like this was some kind of a thread for general Exalted dicussion.

>>54980596
Congrats, you are the 1%. Enjoy it.

>>54980596
So what was your game about?

>>54988604
>5-6
Based on the arguments, I think a bit of the "defense" was false flagging. If you can even call saying "that's just the way it's been" an argument in favor of something.

Anyone with a brain can see that you could easily make a first age warstrider without the random penalties. Likewise, anyone with a brain can see that the investment vs yield is poor game design meant to trap new players and reward experienced players like learning a M:tG combo.

The discussion taught me that they have other benefits that the anti-strider anon didn't consider, as well.

>>54988119
>e-evocations will s-save it! y-you'll see!
>d-dev's will p-patch it!

Christ it's shitty MMO logic all over again.

>>54988969

Your fallacy is stupid as fuck. What we're basically seeing is an MMO class WITHOUT THEIR ACTUAL FUCKING ABILITIES. You know, the thing that makes them like 90% of what they are?

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>>54988469
>have someone else just make an entire character to support yours! That totally makes it alright guys!

You fags are blind as fuck to how bad this really is, aren't you? Do you even listen to yourselves?

>>54984089
The Storyteller kills it for me.

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>>54989010
>WITHOUT THEIR ACTUAL FUCKING ABILITIES

Abilities you need to further invent in to use. Don't even pretend they're automatic or that they'll even be a good investment. And remember, this is on top of EVERY other fucking investment these walking point sink piles of shit need.

>>54989044

Fucking autocorrect. Invest in.

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How is the Magical Material situation in the Second Age?
Is Orichalcum available, or do you have to melt Daiklaves and shit from First Age tombs and places?
What about Moonsilver?
Starmetal?
Jade's probably ubiquitous as shit since the DB use it.

I like how the detractors are just flat out ignoring the fact that it gives you legendary size and reflexive attacks on battle groups.

That said, the investment entry is pretty high, though a four dot retainer does take care of most of the crafting shit.

http://www.strawpoll.me/13757088

I am curious.

>>54989139
I do feel like it should have time will tell option, because we still don't actually know that much and for some reason I feel like this is the resistance charms discussion again

Despite 2e and warstriders causing such shitstorms:

How good/bad were warstriders in 2e? Were there any fixes needed for them?

>>54989228
Celestial Bliss Trick?

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Am I the only one who doesn't give a shit about Warstriders or Power Armour?

>>54987665
because if it had equal accuracy and more damage nobody in their right mind would use a light weapon

>>54989278
Until I get a warstrider that mind-control qt redhead dbs to suck my cock, I pointedly don't care either.

Seriously. Is there a mass mind-control redhead cock sucking warstrider? Is that in the plans?

>>54989309
If you want one make one anon. Do they have to be fire aspected redheads or does any aspect work as long as they are redheads?

Also does said cock eject a liter of delicious suger frosting? Because I still want that working as well.

>>54989228
>for some reason I feel like this is the resistance charms discussion again
ie. people talking shit about shit they don't know shit about, and getting their shit fed to themselves in the end?

>>54989309
Be the change you want to see. Also make one for qt black haired blue eyed dbs for me.

>>54989341
>If you want one make one anon.

Fug. Don't tempt me anon. Don't tempt me.

>Do they have to be fire aspected redheads or does any aspect work as long as they are redheads?

The scarlet empress is not fire aspected, anon. That answers your question.

>>54989370
>>54989309
What would a Mech designed to seduce the ladies even look like?

>>54989357
basically

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>>54989405
They have a big thick gauss cannon.

>>54989405
Don't know. I do know how a mech designed for qt redheaded Dragonbloodeds to get into and mindbreak/seduce them works.

Would a Reality enforcing engine to protect a ship when travelling Wyld he a Sorcerous Working or a Craft Project?

>>54989604
Craft. If you want to protect the ship itself you could also do a sorcerous working. But it would not be a Reality Engine. That is an Artifact. And Craft has a charm to protect objects from the Wyld as well.

>>54989647
Thanks.

>>54989044

Which is different from other evocations how?

Shit, the attunement bonus on one of them was pretty good, immediately gaining a shitton of hardness.

>>54989236

2e warstriders have the issues other anons mentioned and worse. For example they used your Health levels, and if they were damaged you were hurt as well.

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>>54989731
>Which is different from other evocations how?

>>54989072
Anyone?

When is Rathess going to be up again?

>warstriders are really good guis!
>a survival favored character with a tyrant lizard or emperor sloth gains 10x the bang with far less investment

There is literally no defending this.

>>54990129
Warstriders ARE good, the problem is just that Survival familiar kaiju remain broken as fuck.

>>54990129
>Both are turned down by ST because doesn't want to deal with that shit
???

>>54989992
As it says in the Core,

Orichalcum: First age refineries existed but they're in complete disrepair. So it's mostly finding already formed bars and such, or if you can find one at the mercy of your ST you might be able to get it back online.
Moonsilver: Made by lunars. They guard this secret pretty tightly iirc, and also are ZEALOUS about retrieving such artifacts.
Starmetal: No longer ded gods. Literally just falling pieces of rock, like a meteor. Sidereals often use astrology to find out where these will fall so they can get the metal. Makes it super rare.
Jade: It's in the ground. You can find deposits of it, definitely the most common MM but not exactly commonly found either.

Twilight had the perfect plan.
To get her education in Sorcery she pretended to be a gifted mortal and entered Heptagram.
Of course she did too well and eventually ran away.

>>54990238
Orichalcum can also, *extremely* rarely, form naturally from gold veins exposed to sunlight and volcanic heating.

>>54989825
So instead of shit, they're super-shit. Great.

>>54989825
They also had even worse penalties to movement and actions, IIRC, due to being fully treated as extremely heavy suits of armor.

>>54985699
You think the enemies of Creation would cause trouble while Sol and Luna and doing the bareback world breaker, high in the sky?

>>54989018
Are one dot Allies no longer a thing?

>>54990296
Why not just go to Lookshy?

>>54988164
>>54988240
An 18 foot tall walking suit of armor with evocations an a second health track that requires a full support crew and greater hearthstones to even function, and you have to build your character around using it. Yeah, when it takes that much to use a weapon like that, and considering the time it takes to get in the damn thing, it had fucking better be amazing.

So I've been out for a while

Just to confirm - no new books since Miracles rioght?

>>54990887
So I think I'm missing this, but why do you have to build your character around using it? They seem to support charm usage as we have seen so I think I'm missing the part about making a character only for the strider.

Snort, both in the comic where Hierophant lies and takes Unconquered Sun's name in vain and the one where a pirate in a Confederation of Rivers meeting offers his rival's location have a guy asking for trading seats because of a scary guy sitting next to them.

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>>54991042
It's the same exaltation, centuries apart

>>54991042
what

>>54991072
>>54991042
Hierophant deserves to fucking burn

Can non-Sidereals use astrology to predict things?

>>54991181
You'd be happy to know he did.

>>54991170
Typhon, a day caste abyssal working for the Mask of Winters in the Scavenger Lands, inherited his exaltation from the night caste solar in the picture of the heirophant addressing the deliberative. It's a little joke, the same scene being played out in the Confederation of Rivers as was played out in the first age solar Deliberative.

>>54991231
Was he literally tortured or just killed by a sidereal/terrestrial death squad in the Usurpation dinner? This matters to me.

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>>54991231
Where was this I want to piss on his fucking ashes

>>54991181
Christ he and Desus represent everything that was wrong with the Solars, jesus fuck

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>>54991072
For reference (and for ants because fuck my computer)

>>54990966

No new physical releases yet, but they've made good on their promise to start releasing monthly antagonists. They've put out ~11 so far, and a few of them are pretty great. There's also been a bunch of preview material for Arms of the Chosen and the Dragonblood books.

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>>54989880
>>54989731

It's different because anything else doesn't require 5 dots+a hearthstone+your own personal crafter to use.

Again, the INVESTMENT horribly outweighs what you're getting. 15 motes BEFORE any kind of weapon? Devoting a hearthstone for it? The fucking thing doesn't even have a weapon with it for all of it's cost! You're lucky you'll even hit anything of worth with the big ass penalty they're saddling you with, nevermind actually trying to fight another Exalt being 15 motes down before you even consider anything else.

It is a trap option, pure and simple.

>>54991674
but it looks cool anon

>>54991674
In a 1v1 Exalted fight it is. Against an Army/City/Nation. Not so much.

>>54991674
It probably works much better for the storyteller. He can throw one in a Wyld Hunt to play ball with your armies while the rest of the dbs fight you.

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>>54991681
>look justifying anything
>in a game where you can refluff anything

>>54991754

Pretty much. It's not a horrible thing for an ST who can just fling one in with a group of whatever with absolutely no regard for any of it's downsides (besides the full retard -4 to hit). But for players? You're devoting an entire character, and more, to just trying to use something that isn't even going to be viable against most foes, and worse, isn't even going to fit into most situations unless you want to try wrecking every town/village/whatever like Godzilla. Plus, you know, good luck trying to be even the slightest bit stealthy with carting a giant robot around everywhere.

>>54991793
That's like complaining that WST requires you to fuck off the edge of the world for months after dedicated a load of charms to it.

You paid for it, don't complain if you put yourselves in situations where you can;t use it

>>54991793
>Plus, you know, good luck trying to be even the slightest bit stealthy with carting a giant robot around everywhere.
"Dawning Hands Master is just a bit big boned. Surely you won't judge him for something like that?"
-Eclipse Caste

>>54991793
Its almost as if you are suppose to use it in specific circumstances with a large support base and experience. Not just to have a random mecha as a starting character. Really makes you think.

>>54991674
You don't understand shit about the game. You really have no clue how strong having a separate health track and legendary size are, alone, without any of the other myriad benefits of warstriders.

If you didn't have a drawback against human sized targets, then Giant Mecha would be incredibly overpowered in a game ostensibly about wuxia anime heroes who don't need a giant suit of armor to kick ass. As it is, Warstriders are THE best option for fighting other dudes with legendary size, and seem like they'll be amazing at fighting armies too - exactly as intended.

>>LEGION = = 5,271 total - (4000 men + 1000 Sgts + 200 Lts + 40 Cpts + 20 Mjs + 10 Col + 1 Gn)<<

[Legion] General - (400 men + 100 Sgts + 20 Lts + 4 Cpts + 2 Mjs + 1 Col)*10 = 4000 men + 1000 Sgts [5000] + 200 Lts + 40 Cpts + 20 Mjs + 10 Col

>>DRAGON = 527 total - (400 men + 100 Sgts + 20 Lts + 4 Cpts + 2 Mjs + 1 Col)<<

[Dragon] Colonel - (200 men + 50 Sgts + 10 Lts + 2 Cpts + 1 Mj)*2 = 400 men + 100 Sgts [500] + 20 Lts + 4 Cpts + 2 Mjs

[Wing] Major - (100 Men = 25 Sgts + 5 Lts +1 Cpt)*2 = 200 men + 50 Sgts [250] + 10 Lts + 2 Cpts

[Talon] Captain - (20 men + 5 Sgts + 1 Lt)*5 = 100 Men + 25 Sgts [125] + 5 Lts

[Scale] Lieutenant - (4 men + 1 Sgt)*5 = 20 men + 5 Sgts [25]

[Fang] Sergeant - 4 men

yes?

>>54991743
>In a 1v1 Exalted fight it is
And it shouldn't be.

>>54991847
Then it should be N/A instead of 5-dot. Being a 5-dot implies you can take it at character creation, when it's really better as a GM reward or dedicated campaign asset (mighty morphin solar rangers). It also means there's more room to do it right, instead of forcing balance vs 5-dots.

As a note, different warstriders may come with specific weaponry, and particularly powerful ones can cost more than 15 motes to attune; apparently one of the corebook ones costs 20, while having more than normal health and armor.

>>54991866
>You don't understand shit about the game.

Funny, the same can be said about you and your piss poor understanding of how devoting your entire resources to one thing is a fucking terrible idea when it is such a little return. Again: Good fucking luck being worth a shit in a game when you take a Warstrider, unless you're exclusively fighting the very limited number of things it can fight. You're hyping up it's very limited advantages and are completely blind to how screwed the character who takes this blatant trap option will be in a real fight.

>>54991948
>Being a 5-dot implies you can take it at character creation,

Yeah, because you can take 5 dot things in any game normally. You sound like one of those sorts of fucks that complains if a Dawn takes a 2 dot daiklaive in their game when you word things like that. If it wasn't intended for player use at all, it'd be N/A, plain and simple. Anything less should always be fair game.

>>54991966
Anon. Don't make me do a full theorycraft fight of two equal dot and XP Exalts in a whiteroom. The Warstrider is going to annihilate the non-Warstrider Exalt.

>>54991933
It should be. Actually, they'll probably be just fine in most exalted 1v1 fights, because most exalts aren't DV monsters.

People keep saying you need 15m and a Hearthstone, I thought it was either or, didn't it say that in the first little bit that was released?

>>54991966
Yeah? How many "real fights" have you played in Ex3? A warstrider, even without evocations, is going to fuck up the shikari from the corebook, easily. In fact, I can't think of a single adversary published that it isn't good against.

>>54992048
I love how the feared Mata-Yadh gets fully fucked by a warstrider.

>>54992086
wait, who exactly fears it?

>>54992048
This. -4 dice SOUNDS bad, especially if one is still kind of stuck in 2e thinking where even one lost die is a cataclysmic loss of potency, but in practice it's not actually going to be all that crippling against the majority of individual combatants with Defense in the 3-4 range. It's worst against Exalts, and yet even several of those examples don't have defenses so high that they couldn't ever be hit by a warstrider.

>>54992110
Most of this general when it came out. They were all bitching about how it can easily crush a circle.

>>54990045
A good question desu

>>54991988
Due to all the misc investments it requires to keep it moving, it's a trap option at 5-dot. You have to invest so much to keeping it running, either by youself or with the other members of the circle, that it's not worth doing. And any suggestion of reducing those many required support skills and resources gets shouted down with "muh realism", so why not just fucking make it N/A and do it entirely correctly?

>>54992302
Why do you bother? He's too dumb to listen to you slander his game of choice.

>>54992302
N/A is an option for warstriders.

>>54992302
I will say that I don't actually mind if you want to cut down the maintenance requirements and make warstriders easier to run around with in your own games. Do what makes your table happiest and gives you the most fun. I just don't agree with your assessment of the baseline systems for them as a trap option.

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Can I have an army of minikin keeping my warstrider in action?

Can you use Ghost-Eating Technique to destroy the soul of a person so they don't come back as a ghost?

>>54992410
Is a soul a Spirit before it's a ghost?

Because GET only works on spirits

>>54992437
Primordials weren't spirits tho

>>54992451
GET doesn't mention Primordials

>>54992358
Yes, assuming you manage to locate a tribe of Djala and convince the notoriously distrustful tribesmen to work for you. Once that's done though, they'll be so loyal they will never point out you're plagiarizing the design of the turrets from Portal.

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>>54992500
>plagiarizing

I disagree

>>54992516
Not even a setting as divorce from realism as Exalted can make that design look good.

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>>54992711
at least they tried

>>54991933
Why?

>>54992410
>>54992437
>>54992451
>>54992489
This conversation is weird. Demons are clearly labeled as Spirits along with Ghosts, Elementals, and Gods. So I am not sure where we arrived.

However in response to the original question I would not say you can kill somebody with ghost eating technique and them not come back as a ghost. The method of the ghost leaving the body is not very well explained but as you can't attack it directly you are just stabbing flesh. Just find a Zenith and have them burn the body for foolproof method of ghost denying. Plus its better then eradicating a soul.

>>54991892

Replace Sergeant with Corporal. Fang is smallest part of the legion and it wouldn't have a officer in it. Corporal represents most experienced private/soldier of the group

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contubernium also look at roman legion structure
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marian_reforms

>>54992844
Because there's no reason for it. If warstriders demand a large enough investment,then they should be worth it.

>>54993099

Costs 15 motes to attune

Essence 1 Solar: Personal 13, Peripheral 33
Essence 2 Solar: Personal 16, Peripheral 40
Essence 3 Solar: Personal 19, Peripheral 47

Every round in combat you regain 5 essence motes.

I don't see why you are complaining. Worst case scenario it takes 33% of your Essence resources at the start of the game.

>>54993208
And the cost of a 5 dot artifact, a greater hearthstone, and either an ally for maintenance or spending XP to do be able to do it yourself. Assuming it doesn't require additional craft XP costs or special facilities as well.

>>54991793

>Plus, you know, good luck trying to be even the slightest bit stealthy with carting a giant robot around everywhere.

This is why I'm doing something akin to Veronica from Avengers 2

How do you make adamant?

>>54995797
You fold glass over a thousand times.

>>54960998
i never understood why some peopel draw be sting lips like that. its doesn't look attractive at all

>>54995817
This is true.

Would anyone here have the backer previews for liminals and dragonblooded, and be kind enough to share them?

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>>54996967

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>>54996967
>>54997053

>>54997053
>>54997067
Thank you kindly.

Are you people still autistically REEEEEING about warstriders?

>>54997193
Please, we've only had what? A week maybe? There's still plenty left in the tank.

Newsflash:
Anti-army/fortification weapons aren't optimized for anti-hero duty.

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>>54997193
Gib battlemechs

Seriously, they're big and clunky and not graceful or good at hitting little things, they seem closer to Battlemechs than Gundams

>>54997528

Aren't they Guymelefs?

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>>54997606
Yes, but those don't have cannons and missiles and freakin laser beams, which are cool, and therefore must be included.

>>54997528
>>54997606

Guymelf's aren't exactly clunky either is the problem. People are pointing to one fucking scene in Escaflowne-The first time the guy activated the fucking thing, no less-And trying to justfiy Warstrider's being complete garbage.

>>54997785
But they aren't complete garbage, they don't even exist yet.

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>>54997874
>don't exist
>literally rules on a page for them, most of which look cribbed directly from past editions with very minor tweaks

>>54997925
So their arms page is out and about right now? because otherwise all we have is some green text and that shit is DEFINITELY reliable

>>54970114
Wait wait wait
I read that as 'one major project repairs every single health level'
Which one is it?

>>54993099
Similarly, since nukes are expensive, you should be able to kill a single guy without destroying his surroundings with them when you feel like it, or they just arent worth it.

>>54997785
But anon, they aren't garbage. This much is pretty much a fact. They're great against big creatures and wonderful against battlegroups, and since being able to defeat big creatures and battlegroups are desirable things, this is enough to make Warstriders decidedly not shit. They are also actually useable against single human-sized targets. How mechas work in othe works of fiction doesn't really matter all that much, because Exalted isn't Escaflowne: the RPG. Exalted is influenced by several works, but ultimately Wartstriders are Warstriders, not guymelefs. Exalted is closer to a kung fu movie than a mecha anime, and it is kind of important to make sure that the guy whose kung fu is strong isn't completely outclassed by the guy with a mecha. A lone Exalted warrior should have a chance against Warstrider.

>>54997414
Says who?

>>54998340
>>54997874
>they aren't garbage
>completely ignore the fact the guymelef comparison is shit

>>54997698
There were guymelefs with energy weapons, iirc.

>>54998982
I remember the bad guys had flamethrowers, and those morphing weapon arms instead of hands.

>>54999081
I remember those (the liquid metal morph weapons would be great for moonsilver warstriders) and I seem to remember some flying bad guy 'melefs with red energy beams in their hands too, but could be misremembering. It's been quite a long time since I've seen Escaflowne.

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>>54993208

- Warstriders cost 15 motes to attune
- Artifact 5 or N/A
- Require a Greater Hearthstone to power
- -3 penalty to physical actions if you do not have the right lore and athletics specialization for your 'strider
- Gain a -4 penalty to attack and spot human-sized targets
- Requires Craft (First Age Artifacts) to maintain, must maintain for every ten hours of cumulative damage or suffer damage (One die of decisive per ten hours)
- Repairing even a single health level is considered a Major Project

Being able to do all this is a serious investment. Allocating resources to this should mean the 'strider should be useful enough to make it worth it. And giving it such a harsh penalty against something a mere 1/3rd-1/4th it's height, combined with how many stupid projects it takes to even be able to try a major project, is pretty unreasonable. I guarantee my group will be ignoring that -4 penalty, because it make no sense. Maybe, MAYBE if crafting in 3e wasn't total shit, it wouldn't be so bad.

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>>54998307

>>54999333
>double trips

Let it be known this Anon is now the correctest person in the thread, and therefore, Warstriders are shit as written.

>>54987924
>They don't feel powerful enough
You realize we haven't seen so much as a single evocation thus far right? Save one that let them reflexively bump up hardness by spending initiate.

>>54999333
Check my double trips. But seriously crafting in 3e is terrible.

>The ship is sinking, quick twilight caste friend, you must repair the hull of we'll drown!
>I can't, I didn't make enough shoes and arrows in port, so my tools fall through my hands like I'm a ghost!
>What cruel gods would make a world like this, where you must make a mountain of useless crap for every building, ship and bridge?

>>54999369

If the base stats are filled with terrible penalties, and it already requires a massive investment that isn't worth it, what makes you think throwing even MORE investments into it will somehow make it worth it?

Protip: It won't. Just accept it's a complete trap option for players, and suitable only for NPC's which can be freely given these hunks of garbage for the one fight they'll have it for, because they'll ignore almost all of the actual drawbacks except for the -4 to hit, which will be what kills them because they won't be hitting as often or as hard.

>>54999401
The only way is if they have evocations that modify those costs, reducing the -4 to hit/spot and the maintenance requirements.

>>54999413

Then they'd mere be bad, not entirely terrible. They'll still cripple your mote pool because they don't come with a weapon as shown so far.

>>54999401
The -4 penalty to hit is not crippling. It isn't even bad.

>>54999401
I was gonna respond legitimately to this but that second paragraph stopped me. Guess there nothing to do but fitler all this junk till the book actually comes out

>>54999381
"I mist build us a palace! Fetch me my artisanal cupcake machine!"

>>54999475
>not crippling
>losing an average of 2 sux off every to hit roll
>in a very action limited system
>in a very action limited system where you also have devoted a large portion of your buffing pool to whats giving you the penalty to begin
>in a system where you get few bonuses to hit to actually make damage stick to someone and it puts you in a precarious position if you miss
>the penalty is literally almost a 3rd of most combat maxed character's to hit pools
>not crippling

>>54975367
Dude, marriages being strictly political is how things worked in real life aristocracy.

>>54999401
This whole conversation is pointless.

There's a fundamental disconnect between what warstriders are and what you want them to be, and you're interpreting that as them being garbage when all we have is a few lines of greentext that tells us anything about them.

Warstriders ARE tactical weapons used for fighting giant things and armies that require maintenance and work to function well, and deploying one is a decision made with that knowledge. You WANT them to be Gundams that are just as good at fighting people on the ground as they are at smashing armies that you can bring to any fight no problem.

Yeah, the cost of entry is high. No shit. It's a first age weapons platform designed to let you punch Cthulu in the face before punting his Deep One army back into the ocean all in the same around. The only dumb thing about it is the maintenance being always a Major Project regardless of damage taken.

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How did your Circle meet?

>>54999522
Sometimes marriages were strictly political. Often enough love marriages were allowed. What would be very unusual is marriage outside of class. Dragonborns will likely marry who they love the most from a pool of candidates approved by their parents.

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>>54999558
Guys please

>>54999545
What you don't seem to get is that with thee penalties and costs, they're not worth taking EVEN FOR THEIR INTENDED USE because without the 'strider the exalt that paid for it would be next to useless.

>>54997414
>Warstriders aren't optimized for anti-hero duty!
>But why?
>Because Warstriders are anti-army/fortification weapons!
>But why?
>Because Warstriders aren't optimized for anti-hero duty!

Tad little circular reasoning right here. There's no reason warstriders are anti-army/fortification weapons, except for the fact that they shouldn't be optimized for anti-hero duty, and vice-versa. Not a good base for logic mate.

>>54999677
They're giant fricking robots, not power armour

can you use Excellencies during Craft Projects and/or Sorcerous Workings?

>>54999711
Made of magically lightened metals, with their own god-AI. Literally no reason for them to be clumsy.

15XP for the warstrider itself, 12XP for the hearthstone, 6XP for the two specialties, and 6XP for the retainer maintaining the strider because I'm calling bullshit on the notion that you could use an ally to maintain it. Allies aren't there to do your bitchwork maintenance, they're more important than that, that's why they're allies and not retainers. And you might want to spend an extra 6XP for the four dot retainer so that he has charms or some shit that'll decrease the length of time it takes to repair the thing. Major projects aren't much to a supernal crafter, but to a non-solar... Furthermore, weapons for a warstrider will be at least one dot more in cost, I guaran-fucking-tee it, but lets be unreasonably charitable and say they could be three to five dots, which is 9XP minimum.

So what this basically breaks down to is: Does a warstrider's advantages justify the 39-57XP price tag? With RAW it takes a significant penalty when spotting human scale opponents, has a large attunement cost, comes with no weapons, and you'd have to spend further XP to buy evocations. And unless I'm mistaken it's incompatible with any martial art that doesn't like armor. But it does give you a huge, separate health track as well as reflexive actions against battle groups. The penalty it has to attacking smaller targets is negated by the legendary size trait, the only problem is that you still have a penalty if someone is trying to run a stealth op and sneak past you, rather than fight you. I didn't hear if it augments or replaces your attributes.

>>54999509
Against average targets of 3-4 Defense? Yeah, from an average PC's pool I'm not feeling a big loss from -4 dice.

>>54999836
>he thinks it's going to be an average target that he'll be fighting

So how are you gonna get out of your Warstrider when a single Exalt drops in to beat your penalty having ass?

Personally I think I'm going to tell any player of mine who wants to get a warstrider not to worry about dumping merit points on it because all the associated merits have the Story tag anyway and I'll just ensure he fuckin' gets them inside of a story arc or two. That way he gets to roleplay the actual discovery and finding of the 'strider too, and the only XP investments necessary are getting the specialties and buying Evocations after he gets the damn thing.

>>54999861
Evocations

>>54999861
Oh woo, the target number goes up on average to 5 in that case. At worst, that's threatening, not damning.

>>54999747
My answer for the question I just posed is: FUCK NO. If I'm playing a martial artist I may be able to ignore the need for a weapon, but probably not. And I absolutely know I'd want the four dot retainer so I could repair the strider faster and deploy it as much as possible. So I'm probably spending 55XP on that hunk of shit. And it's only suitable for things that involve bigass robots. So, combat occurring in wide open spaces or, like, construction or some shit. For everyone who's defending it as being good for what it's designed for, fine, you're probably right. It's probably cost effective in that regard. But it's so horribly cost ineffective otherwise that I believe a vast majority majority of fighty PCs won't purchase it or just won't get to use it as often as they'd like. It takes too many character building resources that would otherwise be used to purchase widely applicable benefits.

>>54999875
You have no idea what those will be. We DO know what the penalties are. Facts>theories.

>>54999910
>It's probably cost effective in that regard

I would posit it is most likely not cost effective in that regard at all. You could take Volcano Cutter or something else, and just lead your own damn army, AND not have to pay for any other garbage, AND not be at a serious disadvantage VS the lone Exalt trying to ruin your shit, no matter how much retards like >>54999883 try to play off a massive penalty like that.

>>55000027

We know one of them. An anon last thread said one evocation (that is gained for free upon attunement) is that upon being hit the user rolls his initiative and increases hardness by that amount and loses initiative equal to the amount of hardness gained.

>>55000052

>Volcano Cutter

Comes with a manse in fluff that is also needed to power it.

>>55000112

That was an example. Any artifacts you deem worthy. It's just a popular one for 5 dots for whatever reason.

>>55000052
Nigga, we are not in 2e. Four dice is not a huge loss to hit 99 percent of the shit to come your way. It's only going to be a problem if your ST constantly throws 13 parry mortals at you or something.

>>55000151

Damn right, we are not in 2E. We are in a heavily action limited system where dice pools have, more or less, been pretty hard capped and damage is pretty limited compared to 2E's wild clusterfuck of "perfect or die".

I honestly wonder if you've even played the game at this point. -4 to hit is a huge penalty, one that can and will break you.

>>54992930
>However in response to the original question I would not say you can kill somebody with ghost eating technique and them not come back as a ghost. The method of the ghost leaving the body is not very well explained but as you can't attack it directly you are just stabbing flesh. Just find a Zenith and have them burn the body for foolproof method of ghost denying. Plus its better then eradicating a soul.
Actually, the Zenith Anima only prevents the lower soul from rising as a hungry ghost. The higher soul can still become a ghost.

>>55000129

All the Art 5's come with some sort of maintenance condition so far.

Stormcaller needs you to be an asshole to perform rituals to conquer the demon within it to use some of the more powerful moves.

Black Wind needs you to kill the killers in order to use some of it's strongest abilities (Way too many needed, but still in theme).

Volcano Cutter has the manse and fucking forever to use.

>>55000187
Dude, how limited the action system is is completely irrelevant to this. Shit isn't that fucking hard to hit in 3e. That is why four dice isn't anywhere near as bad of a penalty as you think it is. Because most of the time you'll be rolling against difficulty targets low enough that you still have a pretty good chance of hitting. Exalts are the ones that will be challenging, but even then, the average base defense for the Exalt QCs in the corebook is 5.

>>55000129
The warstrider provides 27 health levels separate from your own, and legendary size has the following benefit: You do not take onslaught penalties from any attack made by a smaller opponent, although magically-inflicted onslaught penalties still apply against you. Withering attacks made by smaller enemies cannot drop the you below 1 Initiative unless they have a post-soak damage of 10 dice (although attackers can still gain the full amount of Initiative damage dealt). Decisive attacks made by smaller enemies cannot deal more than (3 + attacker’s Strength) levels of damage to the warstrider with a single attack, not counting any levels of damage added by Charms or other magic.

Then factor in the free attacks against battle groups and the fact that battle groups are actually kind of shit. I'm pretty sure the warstrider pilot would actually win against the commander with an equal investment in combat.

>>55000242
Don't forget also that the warstrider pilot's defenses aren't penalized like his attacks, and the guy on foot can't actually fucking hit the pilot without doing a gambit.

>>54999677
There's no reason a fireplace is a room-heating device, except for the fact that it's the definition of a fireplace.

There's no reason that a butter knife can't pound nails, except that it's a butter knife and not a hammer.

There's no reason a warstrider is for attacking large resilient targets instead of small agile ones, except that it's a giant walking mech.

>>55000563
And the definition of warstrider is whatever the devs say it is, so they could choose at any time for it to not mean shit.

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>>54999381
>>What cruel gods would make a world like this, where you must make a mountain of useless crap for every building, ship and bridge?

>The Primordials made it, remember? I guess it wasn't a problem for them, since they're full of demons who are probably making mountans of random junk all the time.
>Oh, right, them. Boy, I'm glad we went to war and took Creation from them. They were a bunch of assholes.
>But why didn't anyone fix Crafting when we were in control of the universe?
>Because we hadn't made enough mini-universes first. They were more trouble than they were worth.

>>54999747
>15XP for the warstrider itself,
Story Merit.
>12XP for the hearthstone,
Story Merit.
>6XP for the retainer maintaining the strider
Story Merit.
>6XP for the two specialties,
You get 4 specialties for free in CharGen.
>So what this basically breaks down to is: Does a warstrider's advantages justify the 39-57XP price tag?
Try 0 XP.

>>55000590
But the warstriders we're talking about are giant walking war machines. You could hypothetically use the term for something else, but then it wouldn't be what we were talking about.

>>55000620
>You get 4 specialties for free in CharGen.

To be totally fair, if you don't already start with the warstrider from chargen, I don't see how you could justify the Athletics specialty. The Lore specialty, yes, but probably not the Athletics one, not until you've actually found the sucker and strapped into it for a time.

>>55000630
Are you a woman?

Your logic is based on vague feelings. 'Oh noes, I feel like a big Mech should not be used to attack small people, because a big Mech is big and also it feels right, right?' Not something stable you can build on, no matter how much you use circular reasoning to help you.

The logic behind the fact that Warstriders are incredibly potent magical engine of war made of super-light materials and literally magic is objectively uncrackable. As is the logic that those things cost way too much to be glorified castle gate breakers.

>>55000729
Warstriders should be ok, but not overwhelming against single heroes because I don't want the fucking game to revolve around warstriders. I want to be Sepiroth or Jubei or w/e to be the ultimate badass, not some fucking mecha.

This is the real reason warstriders have a BIT of a penalty to offset their massive advantages - because the game is called Exalted, not Warstrider. The IC explanation that its hard for a giant robot to hit a small dude is fine, but thats not as important.

Warstriders are those things on page 71 right?

I don't care much about the mechanics discussion but the refurbishing of some old first age strider by the hunt sounds like a good plot element. Like spreading around clues for PROJECT: SCARLET ECLIPSE or something in saturday morning anime style that culminates in a giant robot.