So guys, need some advise here. I have a guy playing paladin/warlock(celestial),

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>Guys, I've tricked a paladin into falling, look how smart am I, how do I punish him for trusting me, the DM?
>In 5e, where paladins fucking falling is not even a thing unless they want to

>>54959702
No, it was the players idea this time, i know how to do it in the lore, but not in technicalities

Change him to oath breaker?

Or convert levels above pally 2 into warlock

>>54959814
I mean, feel free to disagree, but if he entered into a pact with a renegade celestial. Would that really be breaking any vow made? Isnt that all about promising to the gods to uphold your virtues and if you break them they are punished? Dunno, just dont know if oathbreaker really fits. Definately Warlock though, maybe find some Celestial warlock homebrew.

>>54959858
It exists, it's called undying light.

Works pretty well with greenflame blade + searing smite.

>>54959858
The problem here is the lore in the setting.
The paladins order has its divine power, because its founder managed to trap a god and is leeching its power.
The celestial wants to kill that god, so if the paladin successes he will loose the source of his paladin power

>>54959946
My god you better watch yourself around that edge

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>>54959946
Oh boy, you're THAT kind of DM

Fair enough, but I guess the crux of what im trying to say is, the "Paladin" isnt bound to the god whose being used for divine power, they're bound to another celestial being? Am I correct or have i misinterpreted what you are saying?

>>54959946
Sounds like the paladin should either lose his levels after killing the orders god or revoke pact and lose warlock levels

Unless the player or you can think of another option

>>54959946
now forgive me if this over steps the line, but why not do it like this.

if the celestial does this plan, then could you not drop him into fighter as he has no patron. then work a storyline around getting powers from an alternative source rather than a god. end result is slightly stronger powers as he never strayed, or maybe even the new god of whatever virtue it was?

sounds like a good character arc, but I'm biased

>>54960116
At first i wanted to do that, but if he looses paladin levels he would loose proficiency for armours and weapons, which is kinda lame
So i consider moving the paladin levels to figther like he lost the divine powers, but still has the martial training.

>>54960175
That makes sense, but you should also plan for if he chooses to lose warlock levels, like giving him more paladin levels

>>54960162

The god wants the paladin to free him from his prison, but the celestial from the warlock pact wants him to kill the god, so he can take his place

>>54960162
Personally, i gotta agree with anon here OP. Imagine it like this, if a god was imprisoned and leeched for power, you could see it as their power is strained, but a celestial who plans to end that torture (not imprisoned) would be like a bright burning flame rather than a flickering one. The paladin could ultimately stand to become more powerful

>>54960237
Yes i thought it like this:
Paladin frees god -> loose warlock levels and go full paladin
Paladin kills god -> move paladin levels to fighter

>>54960275
That is if you plan for the celestials intentions to be noble... Ultimately your call after all

>>54960275
>>54960295
The celestial from the pact is a solar that thinks that the god is weak for letting himself be trapped, and should be killed

>>54960335
Right ok, i see now. Well yeah, I would then say you should substitute for Warlock levels if he forges this pact with the Solar, as he is no longer being bound by the trapped gods power. But if he frees this god, keep him as a paladin. Its an interesting concept to be sure, I just feel that if he kills the god, he would still be bound to the solars pact so I dont think he'd lose ALL magic

>>54960381
Yeah, this is a problem here, since i play with 3 players, and he is the only player who can heal, so i really don't want to strip this from him.

btw, is the idea really 2edgy?

>>54960479
I can get why it can be considered edgy (usually god killing is edgy), but ultimately, you do you OP. It aint a bad thing necessarily. And to resolve the healing issue, I guess you could give them some celestial spells for healing, as they helped that Solar, it could be considered a gift from the solar... Just make sure to not make it an obvious ploy to keep them as team healer, spice it up a bit :)

>>54960534
Have the Solar be like "For your loyal service, I bestow to you my boon" give them some fitting spells and just subtly throw in a cure wounds for good measure

Your setting may do things differently, obviously, but default 5e paladins don't get their powers from any god... they get them from their conviction.

If he doesn't break the tenets of his oath, it doesn't matter who he serves, or thinks he serves, unless that service is specifically part of the tenets. Neither of the PHB oaths requires loyalty to any other being.

So, what's the paladin's oath, does he have any custom tenets, and which one (and how) did he broke it?