I think this guy did a thing once?

He was on Terra, which is much more than most other loyalist primarchs can say.

>>54924899
>did a thing once?
How rude, you shouldn't call your mom "a thing"

>>54924922
They were busy taking the fight to the traitors, at least in Corax and Russ' case

>>54924960
Not really relevant to the war at large in the end

>>54924899
Being based is his one thing.

>>54924899

Didn't Horus pretty much beg him to turn?

I think he's the one that rode motorcycles, but otherwise mostly just scowled

>>54924979
>tied up huge amounts of Horus' forces, keeping them spread out and occupied
>not relevant
Real General Lee here lads

Morty shitter detected

>Then you will not be persuaded. A shame. I invested much energy to save you, brother. I shall take no pleasure in your destruction
>And there is the difference between you and me. By the time I make my kills, I am always laughing.

>>54925051
You mean the general that consistently killed more than he lost?
>huge amounts

Most traitor legions still made it to terra and horus could even afford to not commit a whole legion to the assault and was still winning, and that's despite the emperor's children doing fuck all once they got on the surface

>>54925087
Khan was on the ropes in that fight though, was not one sided at all

>>54925020
Morty

>>54925115
>not understanding sarcasm
Nigga you have autism

>>54925121
Because he had been several days on Prospero, while Morty was fresh.

And it was still a draw

>>54925143
I could say the same to you, anon. How do you not understand a basic retort? Have our bants gone wasted?

>>54925181
>not knowing what bantz is
Hey man dont worry, its cool tards can go on to live normal lives sometimes

>>54925235
>immediately resorts to name calling

Low

>>54925115
And those traitor legions that made it to terra were bloodied and split still because of Russ, Corax and the broken legions. Meanwhile rowboat and the loin were busy finger poppin each others assholes on Maccrage

>>54925301
The point is that it still didn't make that much of a difference because little more than half of the traitor forces present were enough to win the siege

>>54925319
Every man killed by Jaghatai or Corax was one minute more bought for Dorn and his boys

>>54925339
That's for sure, but to be honest horus refraining to deploy his own legion and the EC wanking in a corner the whole time were much more helpful to the loyalists

>>54925364
Thats what Horus gets for relying on Fulgrims rabble

Meanwhile Perty carried the entire Heresy on his own while everyone else dicked around doing jack and shit.

>>54925474
Too bad he's responsible for most of the losses in his own legion too

No, you're thinking of one of his brothers.

>>54924899
Who?
>topknot
Is that supposed to be abbadon???

>>54925364
What were the EC doing?

>>54927155
Raping, pillaging and grounding down civilians into drugs.

Last part is canon btw

>>54926632

DECIMATED

>>54924899
Khan was the only primarch I would listen too.

He learned wisdom which is something that the other primarchs.

Heck alphalarius and omegon as well as khan are the only primarchs that typically do smart things

>>54927283
>Heck alphalarius and omegon as well as khan are the only primarchs that typically do smart things
When will this meme end?

The only retard primarchs are Perturabo and Angron

>>54927310
Dorn was too stubborn. Magnus tampered with the warp. Russ was headstrong. Cruze was literally insane. Lion was/wasn't loyal. Sanguinus was perfect(but hid his legions flaws). Lorgar was bad at listening. Etc

>>54927384
>Dorn was too stubborn
Doesn't make him non-smart, see Praetorian of Dorn and how he out-keikaku'd Alpharius
>Magnus tampered with the warp
That makes him naive, not stupid
>Russ was headstrong
Again, doesn't make him stupid
>Curze was literally insane
Yet a guerilla genius
>Lion was/wasn't loyal
He most assuredly was
>lorgar is a retard
agreed

>>54927155
A campaign of so much rape native terrans still dont trust astartes.

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Best HH book coming through

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>>54927283
There is only 1 primarch worthy of leadership

Are the Iron Hands such pricks because their primarch died first?

>>54924951
Meh. He's a primarch, I'd let him do my mom.

>>54927572
No, the weirdest thing about them is that they were always pricks. Losing Ferrus only justified it a little.

Still gigantic irrelevant assholes though.

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>>54927480
He has a lightning bolt head tattoo.

>>54928682
Hey I collect Iron Hands. Be nice they are pretty cool and like machines.

>>54924960
Russ literally spent the entire Heresy getting presented with binary choices, and repeatedly making the wrong ones.

>>54927491
Kek at Angron

>>54928730
>Hey Russ, can you stay on Terra and help man the defenses?
>NO I MUST GO KILL HORUZ, AWHOOOOOOOO!!!!
>gets bamboozled by alpha legion
>fails to make it to terra on time
>literally runs away into the depths of the imperial palace and cries like a bitch
>let's That faggot lion stab him

Russ a shit

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No

>>54932355
>pretends to be retarded so hard his legion becomes more retarded to show him how cool they are
russ a shit

>>54927461
Wait, for real?
Even the Fisters?

>>54927491
>sanguinius and angron once again confirmed two best primarchs

>>54927491
This chart is fucking retarded.

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>Friendly reminder that ADB retconned it so that Magnus destroying the webway project was more important than the entire Horus Heresy making the actions of every other primarch irrelevant
How can the manlets even compete?

>>54925121
>Khan was on the ropes in that fight though, was not one sided at all
Mortarion has to teleport away like a bitch, and Khan was about to land a killing blow. It wasn't one-sided, but the Khan won, because he was the one who didn't run away with his tail between his legs.

In Daemonology Morty is still mad that he got his ass handed to him by the Khan. So much so that he starts using sorcery. Hating sorcery was Mortarion's ENTIRE character.

>>54927283
>Heck alphalarius and omegon as well as khan are the only primarchs that typically do smart things
"Hey man, we're the xenos you've been wrecking. You should trust us when we tell you that you have to destroy humanity to save the universe."
"HOKAY!"

Alpharius and Omegon were retarded. They weren't even just traitors to the Emperor, they were traitors to all of humanity.

>>54932386
>Struck down by Horus

>>54932992
....Really? First I've heard that it was Yet Another oh-so-amazing ADB retcon.
If so, the fuck was the story before?

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>>54933423
ADB in Master of Mankind just showed the Emps getting all emo about how his plan could no longer work and nothing else mattered after Magnus broke the webway project. Just a reminder that this was about a year before the Istvaan Massacre. So Chaos won everything forever before any of the characters we're actually invested in even got to do anything in the Heresy.

>>54933423
It was pretty much canon when Visions of Heresy was written in 2004 or '05.

Before that, we knew the Emperor had a secret project but not how important it was. There were already hints that it had to do with the webway so I assume the authors had it in mind for a long time. (But not in the fluff before 1991-2, when the Heresy story got a lot of its details, like the existence of Sanguinius).

>>54933423
Turns out the Emperor actually had a plan for humanity's future beyond shoot-all-the-things-with-all-the-bolters. Like, an ACTUAL plan with infrastructure and an eventual peace. It was dependent on some irreplaceable technology that Magnus destroyed when he was showing off.

For some reason finding this out made the fanboys absolutely fucking FURIOUS.

>>54933709
Following this:

They're mad because 30k wasn't a call of duty style 'murder more guys and you win' situation. There were actual stakes beyond battle and once the webway was destroyed it could never be done again.

>>54933709
>For some reason finding this out made the fanboys absolutely fucking FURIOUS.
Because they changed what the Emperors plan was retard. Instead of it being giving humanity enough time to become ascended psykers it was cut off all of humanity from the warp. Which is retarded as humanity has souls making his entire plan useless. The webway isnt unbreakable either so its just fucking dumb overall.
Instead of the Webway Project being the next step in the great crusade BL hacks wrote it as the the most important part and who cares if that makes sense because give me notoriety.

>>54933563
AD has videos of his son on his youtube channel. Print them, cum on them, send them back along with a letter off how much you liked that Chaos is so awesome now and how you loved master of mankind.

>>54933709
>For some reason finding this out made the fanboys absolutely fucking FURIOUS.
Because it makes the entire Heresy an inconsequential afterthought?

>>54932386
every time you post this, the emperor loses more faith in humanity for being compared to trump

>>54924899
Fucked up the besiegers on Terra.

>>54932611
They are marines.

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>>54924922
Terra defenders will forever be the best loyalist legions.

>>54933858
As opposed to the cash-grab prequel series to an already unchangeable future setting?

I don't understand what you're getting at. The Horus Heresy was never going to change anything. We know how it ends. We already have 40k.

>>54933757
>There were actual stakes beyond battle and once the webway was destroyed it could never be done again.
I always call horseshit on that, because there's a webway gate that works perfectly fine on the moon.

>>54933991
>people like and want a thing, so it sells well when it is delivered
>cash-grab

also
>releasing a historical setting where the outcome is already known is the same as retconning the entire conflict to have been entirely pointless.

>>54934053
There are functioning gates everywhere. The golden throne was supposed to be the steering wheel. Otherwise you need an Eldar to open and close the damn things.

>>54934060
Saying that the HH was pointless because Chaos is going to win eventually is like saying that WW2 was pointless because mankind will be extinct eventually. You are technically correct, but all the dead and all the survivors sure as fuck seem important in the mid to short term.

>>54934072
No, just some of the tech that the Eldar have. More like access codes, really, "tech" is the wrong word.

>>54932386
I wonder what form of autism could make someone create a picture like that, and what it takes to repost it.

>>54934107
Given mankind's relationship with xenotech, you pretty much need an Eldar there with you.

>>54934091
>Saying that the HH was pointless because Chaos is going to win eventually is like saying that WW2 was pointless because mankind will be extinct eventually
entropy wasn't a faction in WW2
The retcon was like introducing like that the germans all had super aids and the Hitler, the Wehrmacht and SS would all have died 1945 anyway.

A conflict is interesting when both chances have a realistic chance of success. The germans could have won. Horus could have won.
Invalidating that by saying 'AKSHUALLY MANKIND ALREADY LOST, CHAOS FTW' removes the stakes for the conflict entirely. So what if Horus hadn't rebelled or been killed on Isstvaan? Great plan is game over and Drachnyen will kill emps anyway, why does chaos bother to anything anymore? Sit back, wait for the inevitable emp kill and fuck daemonettes on the warp.

>>54934132
>you pretty much need an Eldar there with you.
You say that like other people races have never gotten into the webway before? You know apart from Necrons, Orks, Space Marines, Admech, Ahriman and Daemons whenever they please.

>>54934153
That's fair I suppose. This setting is a mess.

>>54934153
Admech don't just get into the webway, they actively go in and to Comorragh to trade for tech to fix the Golden Throne at least once.

>>54934149
>would have all died in 1945 anyway.

Right. Ten thousand years later and chaos still hasn't won is exactly like all the Nazis instantly dropping dead.

Look dude, you want to hate the thing, hate the thing. I like it. I think it's fitting that the project the Emperor quit crusading to work on was the most important thing ever. Anything less than that and it wouldn't make sense that he left to do it.

>>54934153
>>54934187
>>54934234
Ordo Xenos is fairly familiar with xenotech.

>>54934249
Ordo Xenos is a space marine chapter that is only called together when there is a specific task to do, and a bunch of singular inquisitors each doing their own thing. The inquisitorial Ordos BARELY have a structure. They'd be the worst space-traffic-controllers ever.

>>54934288
>Ordo Xenos is a space marine chapter that is only called together when there is a specific task to do, and a bunch of singular inquisitors each doing their own thing.

>>54934305
Yes. That is a solid chunk of what I said.

>>54934248
>Ten thousand years later and chaos still hasn't won is exactly like all the Nazis instantly dropping dead.
When the timescale of your setting is skewed towards that point ten thousand years later, it is.

>I think it's fitting that the project the Emperor quit crusading to work on was the most important thing ever
Sure, but outright destroying it AND saying there's no way to replace or repair it AND having the emperor himself stating that this is 'gg everybody go home' is overdoing it. Because now there's literally no point to the conflict anymore. Why should the Imperium continue fighting, they've lost and will never win. Why does Chaos bother? They don't perceive time anyway, Chaos literally has no reason to continue fighting anymore (besides Khorne).
The webway project itself never was the problem, the problem is that it was literally Mankind's Only Hope™ alongside with revealing that there's a super special OC demon that hardcounters the emperor no matter what and can't die because demons are so awesome.

Honestly I just feel burned out by this shit. I used to play lots of demons, and where they used to be just horrible creatures fueled by mankinds darkest sides with clear goals now they're more like children playing an MMO to kill time. They can't be perma-killed, they don't need to achieve anything anymore, there's no one as powerful as them, it's fucking ridiculous. Killed any interesting parts of the faction.

>>54934324
You don't see anything wrong with what you said?

>>54934333
No. I don't. Please point out the bit where I was wrong.

>>54934342
>Ordo Xenos is a space marine chapter

>>54934354
The Deathwatch, you fucking moron. there are commas in that paragraph. Learn to read.

>>54934376
>There were no comments in that section of the paragraph
>Deathwatch don't even work for the =][= in the newest lore.

>>54934328
>Why should the Imperium continue fighting, they've lost and will never win.
Why shouldn't you just off yourself. You're going to die eventually and you'll never 'win' in a capitalist society.

Because survival is a thing? And generally people want to squeeze as many years as possible out of life, even if their life blows.

>>54934391
>newest lore

Ah. That is my bad, then. I apologize. I was going from the old deathwatch lore and my foul language was uncalled for.

>>54924899
It's funny how everything has to be a popularity contest. And how having more fans is equivalent to beeing more competent.
That is the reason why Ultramarines are the best, right?

The problem with the primarchs is that most of them are either competend in a very specific thing and just as flawed (almost all the traitor primarchs, Lion beeing basically autistic, etc) or more reasonable but less noticeable at the same time.
Jaghatai is very similar to Vulcan, Corax or even Roboute in this regard. They don't have characteristics that are so interesting on their own that many people want to write about them.
And having less material overall writen about them makes them even less interesting.

Based on the fluff itself the Kahn is one of the more competent and reliable primarchs. He just get's the job done where others make a big fuss about it. Killing most of the inhabitance or making a big deal out of their strategie for example.
What makes him a less interesting primarch then the space vikings or the crazy wizzards. Russ and Angron already having the savage aspect with them and beeing more extreme makes it even harder to care for Kahn.

>>54934406
No problem breh.
The new lore is pretty stupid anyway seeing as even the new models are still covered in inquisition symbols.

>>54934395
Because in your false equivalency one side is an actual being driven by actual hedonism while the other side is a fictional organization written to provide a motivation for a wargame?
Are you literally this retarded?

>>54934436
So now your argument is that fictional factions should be omniscient and KNOW that they can't win, and just give up? And that would make the narrative...

...better?

>>54934457
no, my argument is that playing a faction that can literally not succeed, or one that can literally not fail to succeed is not compelling, and in the context of a wargame constitutes shitty writing.

>>54934328
>Why should the Imperium continue fighting, they've lost and will never win.
Why should any of the 40k factions that aren't Chaos keep fighting?

Because they don't know Chaos is going to win, because they haven't read the novels from a god's-eye-view and as far as they know, they still COULD win?

Are you really this bitter about this?

>>54934468
But Chaos can't win either, because that would be the end of 40k, and GW will never kill their cash cow. So we're back to the age-old stalemate.

>>54934391
>Deathwatch don't even work for the =][= in the newest lore.

Retcons like this is part of the reason why i started my DEldar army.

>>54934481
>>54934498
New anon here.

The problem with anti-Chaosfags which I stated many times is ego. They self insert as their factions so the thought of them ultimately losing offends them personally. They do not see the poetic side of Chaos destroying the hypocritical and flawed Imperium. They don't respect the story of 40K and just care about how it personally makes them feel.

>>54934481
>Because they don't know Chaos is going to win
Eldar and Imperium know, btw

Also, we know, and we actually play the damn game.

>>54934498
>But Chaos can't win either, because that would be the end of 40k, and GW will never kill their cash cow. So we're back to the age-old stalemate.
It's not a stalemate, though. Chaos has won, read MoM. Literally every victory for the Imperium is just prolonging the inevitable, there's no win condition for anyone but the Warp anymore. If you think that's compelling context for a wargame, be my guest, you retard.

>>54934521
Hello new anon. Your point is solid.

>>54934521
>They do not see the poetic side of Chaos destroying the hypocritical and flawed Imperium. They don't respect the story of 40K and just care about how it personally makes them feel.
Nigga I play daemons. With the retcons playing 40k from a lore standpoint is about as interesting as playing a game about the Khmer Rouge, where one player gets an army of armed fascists and the other gets a few unarmed intellectuals. The outcome is obvious, any variation in results literally don't matter because they will e rectified in the next battle, it utterly invalidates the results of every battle.

>>54934525
>If you think that's compelling context for a wargame
A thousand bastions of humanity trying to hold out for as long as possible against the dying of the light even though they know they can't win IS actually a solid setting idea. There doesn't have to be the potential for a happy ending to make a setting good.

Also you seem really mad.

>>54934525
>Eldar and Imperium know, btw

They do not. The Eldar cling to Ynnead as their hope of resurgence.

The vast majority of the Imperium do not know and simply fight to survive.

>Also, we know, and we actually play the damn game.

see here >>54934521

>It's not a stalemate, though. Chaos has won, read MoM. Literally every victory for the Imperium is just prolonging the inevitable, there's no win condition for anyone but the Warp anymore. If you think that's compelling context for a wargame, be my guest, you retard.

The Emperor said that Chaos will win in the long run. It might take 100 years, 1000, or a million years butt hey will win. But that doesn't mean that people should give up and lay down and take it. That's what bitches do. The war against Chaos has no definite time-lapse , only a definite end. So you can set a wargame in it.

>>54934521
See I got into the game and just went:
>Wow, there are a dozen factions, so odds are mine won't win in the long run, but I'ma fuck some shit up before then.
And then I had fun. Because the goal isn't to win the setting, it's to play the goddamn game.

>>54934521
>New Anon
>Poster number doesn't go up
top kek

>>54934550
>A thousand bastions of humanity trying to hold out for as long as possible against the dying of the light even though they know they can't win IS actually a solid setting idea
It's tower defense.

>There doesn't have to be the potential for a happy ending to make a setting good.
>Imperium winning
>happy ending
you don't get the point of 40k, do you?

>Also you seem really mad.
Maybe because my army literally lost any motivation to go out and do stuff because they've already won and don't know time.

>The war against Chaos has no definite time-lapse , only a definite end. So you can set a wargame in it.
The warp knows no time.

>>54934586
>you don't get the point of 40k, do you?
To have fun. The same point of any game. You're the one who is angry that he can't change a goddamn setting someone else wrote.

>>54934552
also, because of this line of thinking
>But that doesn't mean that people should give up and lay down and take it
I'll start sending ADB cum tributes of his son
take my fucking setting back

>>54934521
>Unlike the Chaosfags amirite ?

>>54934596
>implying the setting isn't a main draw in 40k

>>54934548
The concept of 40K is the "Raging against the dying of the light". Seeing how long can people hold on against the tide of evil created by their own sins. Winning battles against the darkness and buying more time for your people is a valid and noble cause. The ultimate outcome is so far away into the future that you might as well cry about the heat death of the universe while at it.

And if you don't like that aspect of the setting, then you shouldn't play the darkness that's killing the light.

>>54934607
enjoy your tower defense, pleb.

>>54934605
That'd be the models, fucktard.

The setting is a distant second to the physical hobby. And I say that as someone who really enjoys the setting.

>>54934586
>top kek

Bitch, you better check again because this is my first post in the thread.

>The warp knows no time.

Real S-pace does and we as players have all the time of the world to play our games. So there is no issue.

>you don't get the point of 40k, do you?

Yes, the sins of man reflected upon himself turns out to be his undoing.

>Maybe because my army literally lost any motivation to go out and do stuff because they've already won and don't know time.

Might as well suicide in real life because you cannot stop yourself from dying.

I mean FUCK. The Polish and French out of stubbornness fought losing wars against the invaders despite knowing they were never going to win. It's the principle of it.

>>54934605
People who self insert as Chaos are equally in error as others that do. I never get why people think that other peoples achievement are a source of their personal pride.

>>54934607
>The concept of 40K is the "Raging against the dying of the light"
For the longest time it wasn't.
Raging against the dying of the light is a trope for bullied children and retards with daddy issues. It's pointless rebellion incarnate on the same level of lacking emotional maturity as these slaughterhouse mangas or the saw movies.

>>54934628
Lies.

40K vidya games are really popular despite of most of /v/ not playing the TT. For example, Total Warhammer is the most successful Total War game in history.

>>54934641
>being an edgy turd
go do your chores, child.
Or, on the off chance that you're ADB, my letters should be there soon.

>>54934646
Wow you're edgy. No wonder you play Daemons. All the other armies believe in something. I'm sure that offended you.

>>54934655
It's not edgy. It's knowing what the setting is about.

>>54934646
>For the longest time it wasn't.

False, newfag.

>>54934672
So you mean the sins of a Wolf Lord on thunderwolf wielding a wolf claw reflect back in form of a lord of skulls with a gorestorm and daemongore cannon or as a malignant plaguecaster?

>For the longest time it wasn't.
You started playing 40k after 5th edition, your opinion is invalid.

>>54933198
Khan was desperate as fuck that fight

>>54928730
Shouldn't you still be stuck in the warp, Magnus?

>>54924899
Literally the least noteworthy legion

>>54924899
>Fulgr
He once burnerd Fulgrim so hard Vulkan was like DAYUUM, Cracker!
And without a flamer no less.

>>54934607
>>54934607
That's not the fucking concept. The point of the whole thing is that the Imperium is pretty much the worst sort of system humanity could live under and yet you STILL root for them. Root for them in their battle against scary aliens but also enemies created by their own reflections. It's a darkly comedic struggle. But ADB has made that struggle pointless. So why give a fuck if space nazi germany x100 holds out for a few more years now?

>>54934641
>>54934672

To be a man in such times is to be one amongst untold billions. It is to live in the cruelest and most bloody regime imaginable. These are the tales of those times. Forget the power of technology and science, for so much has been forgotten, never to be re-learned. Forget the promise of progress and understanding, for in the grim dark future there is only war. There is no peace amongst the stars, only *AN ETERNITY* of carnage and slaughter, and the laughter of thirsting gods.

>>54933832
sent ;)

>>54933218
Looking at it now, it seems that they "listened" to the Cabal, were they were trying to take the information that was given and figure out the third path. Going by what happened, Omegon picked humanity.

>>54936058
>*AN ETERNITY*

The battle against Chaos lasts an eternity, you j ackass. As it was revealed to Girlyman the war against stretches since the birth to the universe and onwards. Countless races were lost to Chaos already. Humanity's struggle with Chaos is but a small chapter in a saga that will continue until the end of the universe.

>>54935975
ADB did nothing but right what was on the tin of the setting. This war was never meant to be won. It's meant to be endured and suffered to the grimdark end.