Are the Drow "outdated"?

>>54909058
No.

>>54909058
If your trying to imply that the drow are some sort of African stand in race I don't think that's near right.

>>54909058
Did you just want to post that picture?

>>54909354

If anything the problem wiht drows is the "matriarchy is evil" thing.

Aesthetically they're not blacks, they have normal elven traits.

>>54909058
Do you play enough games for ideas to become outdated?

>>54909494
>"matriarchy is evil"
its not "matriarchy is evil" its "evil race has a matriarchy"

in the same way as the evil empire doesent make monarchy evil

>>54909058
I only entered this thread for black qts

>>54909058
Yes, mostly due to being shit.

>>54909058
This independent drow woman don' need no man.

>>54909868

I'm not gonna play the feminists critic here.

But the point they made was "there is ONE matriarchy, and it's evil". And I don't even think there is - funnily enough- a real evil patriarchy.

Honestly, I found difficult to say they were wrong.
>yes, there is the Great Rift in Faerun and they knew of it, but come on

If I was WOTC I would at least try to do a "good" matriarchy.

>>54910099
Uhm, every instance of an evil organization outside of drow is a real evil patriarchy.

>>54910099
>>54910129
FR doesn't have patriarchies to anywhere near the extent that the drow are a matriarchy. As part of the push to inclusivity, more or less all organizations and nations have been made at least somewhat egalitarian.

>>54910099
Isn't there a good matriarchal drow society as well in faerun?

>>54910099
>If I was WOTC I would at least try to do a "good" matriarchy.

That's called Amazons. Or at least any kind of Amozonian culture not designed specifically to be feminist wank fuel or wank fuel in general. Either traditional Greek Amazons who are a bunch really strong chicks hanging out on an island and doing warrior people on island stuff.

>>54910099
>If I was WOTC I would at least try to do a "good" matriarchy.
>what is the amazons

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>>54909058
The time of the Drow has passed.

This is Brown Elves' neighborhood now.

>>54910315
This spider armor ainu is not an elf, my casual "elf"-masturbator, something you would know if you actually read her VN.

>>54910395
>read her VN
Do you read yogurt stickers too? Because they have the same literary value.

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>>54910395
are you the guy who goes on about Medea not being an elf either?

>>54910309

Not DND, and not "good" at all.

>>54910315

Everyone knows that brown elves are better, there's not much to discuss here.

>>54910419
>oh boy, I sure do love this "elf" I never actually read the source material of!
Yeah, good job anon.

>>54910427
No idea, look like demon ears. Since it's a fate character based on greek mythology and since she is part of our world I don't see why she should be considered an elf. Why do so many animefags have to claim elf-dom for characters that are never described as such in their own works?

>>54910497
Brown elves are never better and a sure sign that you don't care about traditional games.

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>>54909494
>If anything the problem wiht drows is the "matriarchy is evil" thing.
protip: political power, and political subjugation based on how you are born rather than based on merit is inherently evil

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>>54910507
>look like demon ears.
look again

hell she even gets called out on her "elf ears being dodgy" in the comedy spin-off

>Why do so many animefags have to claim elf-dom
because they look like elves

>>54910507
>source material
I sure do love some brown elf art, and I also love good taste in literature, that's why I'm not reading your weeb shit.

>>54910523

I made a fucking black elf race just becuase my GM wanted it, dude.

>>54910537
>>54910537

You don't say!

>>54909058
Drow are not African in any way. Sigh Now on to the question. In pathfinder No. 5 th D&D yes due to being nerfed to death

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>>54910546
>look again
Demon ears.
>dodgy
Awesome, she is still not an elf by birth, by spirit, by her lineage. She is a character with pointy ears, and non-elves had them as well. Especially with pointy ears this short, because actual anime elf ears are most of the time longer.
>because they look like elves
No, they look like anime girls with pointy ears. Considering what pointy ears mean in japanese culture it is not a sure thing of being an elf.

>>54910590
>that's why I'm not reading your weeb shit
I seriously hope you are not the guy that posted that pic, because the hypocrisy is insane. If it would be true, it's exactly what I hate about anime-elf-fags: you guys don't care about lore, don't care about reading source material, probably don't even play tradional games. All you do is masturbate to some pics on some booru, after shooting your load noticing that the girl had some pointy ears attached to her for no good reason and then you decide that you suddenly like elves and feel the need to proclaim this on /tg/.

>>54910718
Now that's some high-quality autism.

>>54910718
>Demon ears.
>explicitly called elf ears
>no horns
>no tail
>no hooves
>no fangs
>no wings

>>54910601
>I made a fucking black elf race just becuase my GM wanted it
And I could make 20ft tall dwarves, doesn't mean that tall dwarves are the best. Brown elves are not really a thing in any established setting we usually play around here, and in japanese sources mostly just normal elves with a tan. Good luck trying to explain what's actually so great about them, aside from "makes my dick hard", because that's barely fluff and surely not crunch.

>>54910741
Welcome to /tg/, I do my best.

>>54910750
>>explicitly called elf ears
Doesn't make her an elf for all the reasons I have explained.

>>54910825
>Doesn't make her an elf
no, all it does is make her look like one- hence her being called an elf, since for the most part thats the only common feature all eves share

otherwise either witcher elves or warhammer elves wouldnt really be elves

>>54909058
Drow as PCs has always been pretty dumb in my opinion and most people who play them are some form of thatguy.

If with this picture you're trying to imply that there's some kind of association between Drow and Africans, you should probably kys

>>54910759

What I am saying is that your autism is showing. Having nigger* elves isn't perfectly fine in the hobby, and if you think that's fapbait because you can think only about that, that's your problem.

*=actually, we called jokingly that. They're more like mexicans or indian, in skin tone.

>>54909868
Nigga, you act like cultists are capable of logic or critical thought.

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>>54910419
>Anime elves are CLEARLY SUPERIOR!
>Fuck that weeb shit! Anime is gay!
I wonder who could be behind this post...

>>54909868
From perspective of a somewhat egalitarian society ie any place that's not a shithole today, monarchy is evil.

Symbolic monarchy like Brits and Swedes have doesn't count, the royal family are just rich celebrities that bring in tourists.

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>>54910848
> since for the most part thats the only common feature all eves share
No, that is one common feature, maybe the only common phyiscal feature among anime elves, since aside from the long, pointy ears they look exactly like humans, unlike western elves that often have different facial structures and a different physique. And even with that common feature Medea fails, as I explained, because her ears are not elf-like compared to all the other elf-ears in anime and manga. Don't really care what other characters say about her. Anime and manga elf ears look different. She is not an elf.
>otherwise either witcher elves or warhammer elves wouldnt really be elves
Except these actually tick several of the boxes about being elves I mentioned. Not saying that these are the definite things that constitute an elf, but it's still more than Edea has on being an elf.

>>54911039
>Edea
*Medea
Fuck me.

I prefer my drow sickly pale, full on elric style. No lolth spider queen bitch in my setting, so its just an empirical monarchy that puts queens>kings due to birthing and shit.

>>54910911
>>54910911
>What I am saying is that your autism is showing
And?
>and if you think that's fapbait because you can think only about that
It's not like you presented me anything else. I mean, how do you expect me to take this vague race seriously? I already mentioned fluff and crunch, and you delivered me nothing to explain why brown elves are so great. They don't really exist in any player manual I can read, so why shoudl I assume that they are great? In anime they are just normal tanned elves, mostly.

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>>54911018
>monarchy is evil.
not necessarily

monarchy is decent enough in situations where the means to implement a democracy are not yet available

>>54911039
>Except these actually tick several of the boxes about being elves I mentioned
witcher elves are short pointy eared humans

warhammer elves are tall pointy eared humans

>her ears are not elf like
they are

>compared to all the other elf ears in anime
which are also of variable length/shape- there is no set measurement or form outside of "elongated pointed ears"

>>54909494
Did you see what happened to Yahoo?

>>54911155
>witcher elves are short pointy eared humans
>warhammer elves are tall pointy eared humans
And his disproves what exactly? Short elves have been a thing since Forgotten Realms, one of the most influential DnD settings out there Warhammer elves are of similar age. What even is the point here? I never talked about how tall or short they are. Are these these the only elves you know about? Both these elves look different from humans even without their pointy ears.
>they are
You will not find a single elf from a fantasy world that really is of the elf-race with such short ears. You won't.
>there is no set measurement or form
Sure, doesn't mean that Medea is an elf because she has short pointy demon ears and at the same time doesn't tick any of the other elf boxes.

Without mentioning her ears, why is she an elf?

>>54909494
So is the problem that matriarchy is associated with an evil race, or that this is the only thing they really have that makes them stand out?

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>>54911260
>why is she and elf
the point is that people call instances like her and others elves BECAUSE they look like elves (humans with slight feature change and pointed ears)

also
>other elf boxes
like?

>look different than humans
not without the ears they dont

>sensitivity readers

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>>54911311
>the point is that people call instances like her and others elves
Doesn't mean anything if she isn't an elf at all.
>like?
I already mentioned several posts ago. She is a human with pointy ears, nothing of her origin, her life, her spirituality is different from any other caster. She is a part of our world, of our mythology. The mythic Medea was never an elf.
>not without the ears they dont
Shows how little you know about the traditonal games you talk about. Yes, this is a very extreme example, though whatever that is you posted doesn't disprove me in any way

>>54911442
>whatever i posted
is a witcher elf, which is literally a human with funny ears

>how little you know
nigger i know the pain of building a metal warhydra for my drutchi

>her origin
there is no definitive "elf" origin

>her life
what?

>her spirituality
there is no definitive "elf" spirituality

face it, "elf" covers so many different types of settings from witcher to warhammer to warcraft that the only consistent or connecting descriptor is "humanoids with pointed ears" and with "magical" and "attractive" being almost as common

>>54911286

The first, in their view.

>>54911094

I don't want to imply they are great, simply that if you think because you've seen porn of elves with a certain skin tone every elf like that will be fapbait, you are the cancer.

>>54910427
Medea is a CUTE elf.

>>54910099
>If I was WOTC I would at least try to do a "good" matriarchy.
You mean like Rashemen?

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>>54911491
>is a witcher elf
From a video game? Good job anon. Can we talk about traditonal games a bit more?
>there is no definitive "elf" origin
Of course not, because this really does depend on the setting. So, what's the definite elf origin in the nasuverse? I can't find anything. Almost like elves don't really exist in this setting...
>"elf" covers so many different types
And yet all you care about is pointy short demon ears.

>>54911496
>simply that if you think because you've seen porn of elves with a certain skin tone every elf like that will be fapbait, you are the cancer
To this pont you failed to disprove me. So, what's the fluff and crunch about these brown elves?

Somebody give that woman a sandwich.

>>54911594
>And yet all you care about is pointy short demon ears.
you seem to have an issue getting the point

"elf" as a serious qualifier is pointless, since it can cover anything from trolls with radiation poisoning to magical crystal people to aliens

so instead people use elf to mean how the character looks- since thats the only somewhat consistent thing

>>54911521
yes, but careful- you'll trigger the autist

>>54910427
She's not an elf though. Really old magic people just sometimes have pointy ears in Nazu shit. There's nothing about her that's elf-like aside from the ears

>>54911977
>shes not an elf
sure- she just looks like one

>>54911993
Anime pointy ears are used for half demons and generic magic types in addition to elves

>>54912067
which is why they get posted in "elf" threads - same as masamune and the alien robot chick

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>>54911442
In Fate, Medea is descended from the elves/faeries and she had several recessive traits come together which meant she was born with vast magical power (and pointy ears). Semiramis is another individual from Fate who was also blessed by inheriting the magical power of her ancestors and possesses pointy ears.

So in the context of regular fantasy, Medea would basically be like a half-elf born to two human parents who could trace their lineage back to half-elves and elves.

>>54909058
being white, heterosexual and religious is evil nowadays. So you could create something with that premise.

>>54913106
What about we just call you a moron?

>>54913106
>look at me, I'm the victim now!

>>54910192
Do they have female Red Wizards?

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>Thread is nothing but arguing over semantic autism and /pol/ and /leftypol/ trying to be subtle in their slapfight.
>Even the OP is shitty low energy shitposting done in an attempt to get people to argue about nothing
What a senseless waste of time and board space

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>>54913323

>>54909058
WE WUZ DROW N SHIET

Are you asking if they're drowtdated?

>>54909868
>in the same way as the evil empire doesent make monarchy evil
Well no, Monarchy makes Monarchy evil, the Empire only makes it more evil. It's liike an Evil Cherry, on an Evil sundae.

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Better yet, how well would these sword-crazed fellows fare in a more modern setting?

>>54911491
you should read the witcher books.

>>54909998
Good luck trying to find a way to reproduce asexually.

>>54914690
Spiders (can) do it. Why not the most devout followers of the spider queen of spiders?

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Democracy is shit. In a monarchy you might get Augustus, you might Caligula. In a Democracy you'll never get Augustus, but you can still get Caligula.

Both are inferior to a Republic. Universal suffrage, what a joke.

>>54914783
All systems are shit because humans are shit. You need Divine Rule, notably NOT a theocracy. Since gods don't have the balls to come around and rule us, we need to create one - an infallible, all-powerful AI that knows best.

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>>54914813
Good idea
>//run zyklon.exe ver. B

>>54909058
>species living underground tend to be very pale or almost albinic in colour due to zero exposure to sunlight
>drows are somehow very dark and dusky

MAGIC
A
G
I
C

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>>54909058
>>54909868
>>54910099
>>54910192

>>54910099
From the same setting? The Orcs.

>>54909058
I came because chocolate.

Then i came :3

>>54914783
Calm down there, Doomfist

>>54910537
But how you are born has a lot to do with merit. If somebody's clinically retarded, their "merit" won't really come into play when they're running a community.

Has anyone else here read up on Shadow Elves? It was an old Gazetter publication. A bit tamer than Drow, but also interesting in their own way. I'd share the PDF, but it's too large.

>>54909494
>If anything the problem wiht drows is the "matriarchy is evil" thing.

But matriarchy is evil. Just like patriarchy.

>>54909339
/thread

>>54910750
Jap demons can be demons with just pointy ears. They don't have the satanic imagery cultural baggage the west does.

>>54917959
they tend to have horns or something at the very least

>>54909494
....please go away from this board and never come back.

>>54914464
Depends on if there are illithids or not. If not, they would probably be amenable to migration.

>>54915730
Patriarchies built civilization around the world. Matriarchies tend to violently self-destruct.

Thus the plot device of Lolth keeping a divine hand on the scales.

>>54909494
But the femdom is what really makes everything about the drow click. Magical underground spider domme waifus 4eva.

>>54914898
In the AD&D writeup, they are black skinned because of constant exposure to magical radiations, which also permated their weapons and armor and made them magical.

>>54917993
>Matriarchies tend to violently self-destruct.
Were there any actual matriarchies to give as examples?

>>54918011
Most matriarchies are tribal setups, anon, and none of them have blown up because, again, they are tribal and not modern civilizations.

>>54918022
So basically, matriarchies self destruct but we have no examples of them self destructing because only the ones that didn't self destruct are still around?

This doesn't seem right somehow...

>>54918022
>Most matriarchies are tribal setups
Such like?

>>54914898
sexual / cultural selection is just as much a factor as natural selection my dude

>>54910099
gee, I wonder if it is because spider females are huge and kill their mates and are full of poison while the males are just tiny betas who want to get laid.

>>54917993

I studied anthropology, and I have to tell you: there has never been a real large-scale matriarchy.

Because the thing is, see, that it's impossible to truly tell who has the power in any culture, because if someone has hidden power, it's... well, hidden. You can't effectively say who "really" has the power. So, instead, patriarchy/matriarchy is judged by prestige. Who is celebrated more? Who has more stories told about them? Who practices power most visibly? And guess what: it's never been women. No-one has ever given women more prestige than men.

That makes sense! In the vast majority of animal species, the males are the ones who put on a show. They need to be more colorful, do a dance, some other thing to earn female attention, because the females of a species need to put in more effort to reproduction and need to be pickier, requiring the males to compete with each other. Women, generally speaking, don't try to attract large-scale attention or earn glory the way men do, and its a habit from before we were human. Of course, humans are messy and weird and there are of course some women who strive for glory, but speaking in trends, women prefer to keep to a lower level. It's not even something men solely cause - for large sections of several cultures' history where women were the main storytellers, they preferred to tell stories about men than about each other.

The closest thing you'd come to matriarchies among humans is societies where women control things more behind the scenes, generally on personal levels as the heads of families or as elders in communities. There are several tribal societies where the older women, mothers and grandmothers, basically control everything. And there have been more advanced societies where women had large political power that could be argued to sometimes be greater than the men. But they don't really tend to "violently self-destruct".

And any outright "women are superior to men" society has... well, never existed.

>>54917990
Would they though? Assuming we keep the Lich Queen idea.

It would be interesting to see the Gith dymanic played out on a corporate scale; two rival cutthroat companies, one specializes in medical tech, the other a defense contractor, both of them lead by undead CEOs who try everything they can to dismantle the other.

Zericorp will not hire anyone not of their own race, and while they can be reasoned with, keep their trade secrets guarded to the utmost paranoid levels.

Yankicorp will freely trade with their benefactor and no one else, but if anyone outside the company gets their hands on their weapons, ceremonial or otherwise, they will send death squads out to liquidate the loose ends.

>>54910099
.....orcs, dog!

Holy shit!

>>54911590
underrated post.

>>54913392
>What a senseless waste of time and board space
That's how /tg/ has been ever since quest threads were banned from this board.

>>54910537
There is no such thing as evil. There is only efficacy and inefficacy.
t. Lawful Neutral

>>54909889
same

>>54918069
examples :
gingers
peacocks
blue eyes

>>54919631
*that's how 4chan, and by extent /tg/, have always been and will always be, until the end of times and internet

>>54911260
>You will not find a single elf from a fantasy world that really is of the elf-race with such short ears.
Unless you read anything by Tolkien

>>54918062
Not him but there's a handful in the amazon and in PNG. Well, matrilocal, in that a man marries in to his wife's household and his mother in law is the head of it economically. They generally don't have large political structures so whether they are "matrirachies" is going to depend on your definition.

>>54920872
You know I don't think it's ever said that elves have pointy ears at all anywhere in his work

>>54918062
Not him, Iroquois were matrilinier, and nearly all their domestic affairs were ran and maintained by a council of female elders organized into different "Societies"

While they ran internal and domestic affairs, the Men were often in charge of hunting patterns, diplomatic affairs, managing war, overseeing trade and interactions with other tribes, and basically most all of the external affairs. Further, it was generally accepted that the Chief was most often nominated/Chosen amongst the warriors by the Matriarchal council.

However, it should be noted that as a culture and society, the Iroquois were incredibly strict and set in their way involving gender roles in society, and believed in a "separate but equal" policy regarding the two sexes, that they worked best together when they were focused on their jobs and duties, and didn't disturb the other's jobs and position in the tribe.

>>54921495
>that they worked best together when they were focused on their jobs and duties, and didn't disturb the other's jobs and position in the tribe
Didn't the chief need the female council's approval to go to war or something?

>>54921639
They might have, I can't remember too well since its been forever since I read up on them

>>54911018
>the royal family are just rich celebrities that bring in tourists.

that's still evil though

>>54909889
>>54920676
You two know wuts guud

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>>54909889
Amen

>>54913106
Oh, sure. The evil theocracy thing has never been done before.

>>54918124
Interesting post, thanks.

>>54920796
and my dick

>>54909058
I think people are just bored of all the Moorcock knockoffs in general.

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>>54909058
Not at all, they're still here, they just got better at infiltration and our political-correctness prevents us from criticizing them.

>>54913214
>>54913272
being dark skinned, degenerate and sexual ambiguous is DINDU. They are the good guys now.

>>54913325
Yes, they do.

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>>54913325
Obviously.

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>>54923227

>>54910315
muramasa is not an elf, she is a sentient demon armor with DBE and mech spider forms.

Also: WHAT WOULD HER CLASS BE?

>>54910546
too bad Fate/Stay night was never finished... Would have loved to see rider's and caster's routes.

90s baby shit

>>54920990
It hasn't.

However, elves are basically angels in Tolkien, and can't be mistaken for humans.