Why does WotC have it out for us, bros?

>>54902894
well for over a decade, blue dominated the tourney meta of, like, every format, so..... karma?

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Blue is the least fun color to play against.
Followed by Black.
Then either red or white. Probably white.

Nothing. Everyone else is just getting their time in the sun. You're still king of eternal.

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>>54902950

Does this mean colorless is the most fun to play against? If so why don't WotC just make all the colors colorless, just spread colorlessness everywhere, just let colorlessness consume all the planes?

>>54902909
>blue dominated the tourney meta of, like, every format, so..... karma?
https://www.channelfireball.com/articles/was-blue-control-as-oppressive-as-we-remember/

If it's combo you're talking about, then the colour is irrelevant because design fuck ups aren't limited to a colour.

>>54903049
>colorless
>a color

>>54902894
Because Hearthstone players don't like the idea of someone fucking their "epic play" over with a reasonably-costed Counterspell and they're the market WotC is after right now.

>>54902894
New world order

>>54904341
>reasonably-costed Counterspell
If you wanna be le ebin mastermind im smurt jace is da best then it should cost you 3CMC and make you sacrifice a permanent

>>54904537
I hope you're just memeing

>>54902950
Green is the least fun to play against because the color is so fucking boring

>>54902950
Archetypes are fun/unfun, not colors. Elves is boring as shit in every format, but when green is in Junk or Jund in Modern or RUG Delver or Maverick in Legacy it's fun.

Same with Blue. Draw-go in Modern is boring as shit. But Legacy Delver decks and Infect and Stoneblade and Modern Fish and Death's Shadow are pretty fun decks to play against.

>>54904640
well seeing as it is supposed to be a creature focused color, and now creatures are more prominent in general, it loses its identity...

>>54904640
Did you forget about the elves?

>>54902894
please dont start acting like whiny red babbies.

>>54902894
Wizards tries to keep blue, specifically counter heavy draw go type stuff, outside the meta for the same reason Capcom keeps nerfing fireball zoning in SF. Like counter magic, fireball zoning is a fair strategy with readily available counter play. Also like counter magic, fireball zoning 'feels bad' to lose to and requires you to change the way you play, which new players, particularly those of a more casual bent, may not pick up on.

>>54905163
I'll whine all I want

>>54902894
Because playing against blue is 'why bother' mode

>>54907570
Only if you're bad

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>>54909673
>tfw too intelligent

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>>54909673
What no
The purpose of control decks is to keep your opponent from playing Magic. It has nothing to do with skill if you're not allowed to play. Control decks are also awful because they discourage real interactivity by making the game completely one sided and they discourage games that generate complex board states.
That's not fun and nobody wants to play in a matchup like that.

>>54910341
i can tell you Esper control is just about the most frustrating shit you can go against.

you have a cool spell you wanna play? nope, mana leak
You managed to play a creature? nope, doom blade.
you manage to get a bunch of creatures out of your ass thanks to a White Sun Zenith? NOPE, Day of Judgement.

esper has a reaction to literally anything you got in modern, its not worth playing against

Blue is the strongest color in magic, so if you want fun blue it's going to have to be worse in general than what has already been printed.

Card advantage is very good and most good card advantage is in blue, so many decks run blue. Card advantage is king when individual cards are strong in your deck, that's why Brainstorm is/is one of the most played cards in Legacy and Vintage.
If you want to talk modern, I think blue is very balanced as a color and doesn't need too much in way of new tools or power.

The reason people have their shit countered is because blue has all the good card draw. Countering shit is no skill, you just mindlessly deny everything and at some point the green/red/white player will run out of cards, while the blue player just fraws 3.

Black also has great card draw, bit it doesn't get as much hate because its answers are towards creatures only.

>>54910732
>what is active player advantage

>>54902894
Blue has always been the best color in MtG, it got absolutely everything as well as the all-powerful counterspells and control spells, which is just not at all fun to play against.

>>54904729
>opinions

>>54910524
Yep, this is true even if you just splash blue. I run Affinity and my win rate has gone up significantly since adding 3 copies of Thoughtcast, and that's just 3 cards that allow for drawing.
I can only imagine what it's like to play a deck filled with counters, removal and draw power. You just spam counters and removal while drawing extra cards until you get your win con which won't be stopped because your opponent has fuck all on the field. My god.
But that takes more skill than anything else apparently...

>>54910488
maybe thats because you are playing some shitty jank. actual decks don't have a problem against esper control

>>54902894
I don't understand it either. Whenever I play against counterspells I just dredge for 6 and see the smartass cry in despair

>>54914195
which is why I hate torrential gearhulk, it was a mistake... If you are going to play the "no" game to an opponent, you shouldn't have a creature that exacerbates that toxic interaction, and torrential is so pushed in power it isn't funny.

>>54903132

"Design fuckups" have been heavily biased toward and blue and black though

>>54914195
If it's so easy why don't you just play that deck?

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>>54904616

>memeing
>using meme as a verb

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>>54915870
Because I don't want to

>>54914795
this

Making card draw a blue mechanic was utterly retarded.

>>54902894
Casual players hate having their spells countered. For whatever reason it feels 'unfair' to them.

I have been playing draw-go control at my standard FNMs and so many of the players just cannot deal with it. You can just look into their eyes and see their misery as each and every big dumb spell they play is countered or killed.

>>54914779
It's just a worse snapcaster most of time

>>54914779
>Some guy actually bitching about Torrential Gearhulk, the Eternally Unplayable
Standard Babies everyone. Seriously bud, it's a pretty mediocre card, it's like a shittier snapcaster on a big artifact body.

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I don't hate blue for counterspells, I hate it for this thing.

>>54915870
Same reason I didn't play Demoman in TF2, its too damn easy mode, and thus no fun.

>>54904729
>infect is fun to play against
I don't think you've ever played a game of MTG in your life.

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>>54902894
Either this is bait or Blue players are delusional, either way 10/10 made me mad.

Name 1 set in the last 10 years where Blue was unviable.

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>>54910488
>leave Esper to me

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>>54914195
You run affinity and you call control boring and easy? Control is a lot more challenging to play then one that hasn't played it would think. What/when to counter what/when to play removal are big things. I've seen a novice control player absolutely butcher playing my B/W control even though the fact they have seen it played countless times at this point. and it's not even that they are a bad player they have just never played control. Their problem was they spammed counter spells and removal at every threat, ran out of gas, then died. But I wouldn't expect an affinity player to understand the complexity of a good control deck

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>>54903215

Colorless is literally a color

>>54920040
Affinity is a notoriously hard deck to use dude

>>54919982

Blue fragility.

>>54905603

... I'm sorry, being screwed because I can't get more than 1 actual play per opponents turn cycle starting turn 2 is good design?

>>54916162
R u noo hear? go back to 9tumblreddit

>>54921023
Colorless is not a color according to WOTC. Converge solved this dilema

What do folks think of the idea of WOTC limiting certain types of cards e.g. 2 Removal spells per deck, 2 draw spells etc
Could that possibly make blue a little more balanced without completely killing the decks?

>>54920040
>control fag tooting his own horn
>also happens to be a weeb

>>54921983
I'm not actually a weeb. I just like smug anime girls. There is just something satisfying about posting them.

>>54921970
What defines a kill spell or draw spell? There are too many spells that make people draw cards where it's a side effect same with kill spells.

>>54922402
For kill spells it would be non-burn non-counter related direct removal like Path to Exile, Doom Blade etc though caps could be put on those too if they became overused
I think putting caps on certain types of cards could really balance some things out. It's one of the only things that I liked about Yugioh; the limiting of certain cards made it so that you had to use those cards more strategically and that they wouldn't dominate the meta.

>>54922121
>literally confess he enjoys being irritating
>plays control
Heh.

>>54921970
That's fucking stupid

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>>54922719
Good input, lots of valuable opinion there

>>54922740
You say that it's a positive point of yugioh, but one of the big problems is that there's a set of 30-40 staple cards that never fucking change that are half of most decks, while the other half is a specific archetype. By limiting things like that you force every deck to turn into a generic midrange deck, which makes for a very boring metagame.

I only play aggro decks because I would rather play twenty matches and win fifteen of them than play two and win both in the same timespan.
I genuinely enjoy mono-red burn. I want to play creatures and turn them sideways and point burn spells at my opponent and win.
I play magic to have fun and I'd rather just scoop to a hard counter three turns in and shake hands with a gg than spend twenty turns grinding out an unsatisfying loss

>>54922769
I'd say the reason for that is primarily due to Konami's ridiculous power creep; each new set completely invalidates the last. Konami was really fucking bad about that, so you had everyone playing the same decks all the time.
As far as MTG goes, I believe we're already at the point where we have a set of staple cards like that. Anyone that can generate white will play Path, anyone that can generate black will play Fatal Push and so on. Every game you can expect to see the same little rotation of cards used over and over (I'm guilty of using them too). I feel like a cap on these cards would encourage more strategic play and creativity when it comes to deck building and therefore provide a marginally better experience for a lot of players. For all its issues, removal in Yugioh didn't feel nearly as autopilot as it does in MTG.
We can apply this all to draw spells as well; the player with card advantage will almost always win. I can't tell you how many times I've won games solely because of the fact that I get what I need in my hand off draw spells. I feel like I win more from that than my actual skill in the game.

>>54918975
but wrath and languish effects kill it. It's a little dumb but so is jangles and nobody hates a whole color over it

>>54910524
Depends on what format of magic we're talking about

>>54922543
Well it's one of my guilty pleasures. I've never been degenerate enough for lantern control so there is that. Not that I never thought about building it though.

>>54902894
You islandboys are so fucking shameless