Is being captured by the Dark Eldar the worst fate in 40k?

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The worst is tripping over and falling into a pain glove with nobody around to turn it off

>>54902501
>that baby shit
it doesent even keep you alive to sustain your torture through the millenia- thats chump change in commoragh

>>54902408

Close second to being tormented by daemons.

>>54902408
As >>54902592 says, the Dark Eldar are pretty bad.
But even they can't rape your soul inside out like Slaanesh can.

>>54902408
Not if you are captured by Succubi.

>>54902772
Didn't the Path of the Dark Eldar book say at one point that dying from daemons was merciful compared to what the Archon would have done?

I think it was an Archon that rebelled or something along the lines of that?

>>54903175
What is hyperbole

Dying and going to Slaanesh is the one thing that scares even Deldar

>>54903175

That is definately something a Dark Eldar would tell you.

Also, getting killed by a daemon is not the same thing as being purposefully tormented by them.

Using something a lot of people may get as an example: it's like comparing being tortured by the sickest psychopath serial killer to being tortured by Satan himself.

>>54903220
I don't know man. I'm sure you've read the story where they take teenage russian girls, amputate all their limbs surgically, then mount them on mooring hooks so they can be suspended from the ceiling. They chop out your tongue, deafen you over time with extremely loud music, hook you up with a feeding tube, then torture you sexually until you barely resemble a human. Next step is to sell your quadriplegic fleshlite ass to the highest bidder, knowing you'll never be able to express your discomfort, particularly when compared to the torture you've already been through.

I mean, I know that's a made up story people on gorgish fap to, but the mundane horror of people being able to actually do that to someone superceeds any magical satan torture you can think of.

>>54903197

Deldar have souls that persist, unlike humans, who just dissolve

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>>54903197
To be fair like >>54903336 said, they only fear it because their souls actually persist unlike the common Mon-Keigh.

I think that to an Aeldari the worst thing to happen would be to go to She-Who-Thirsts but to the other races I have no doubt being captured by the True Kin is a more horrifying prospect than the Daemons.

Simply because the True Kin get to decide when you are released from life, unlike the daemons who will just devour your soul.

Nothingness is a blessing compared to the treats the True Kin have in store.

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No, this worse fate is being captured by the Iron Warriors. Those fuckers are legit evil as fuck

>>54903293

the point is, torture inflicted by supernatural beings is beyond what mortals are capable of. you endure pain with senses you don't have, on level unimaginable in the real world, so on, so forth.

dark eldar, or psycho killers, are torturers and bringers of suffering. daemons and gods are suffering made sentient, and they do things to you in a realm of suffering.

>>54902408
Depends how submissive you are you can deal with it by remembering the 3 L's:
Learn to
Love
Lewdness.

>>54903575
The daemonculaba is nothing to the Talos Pain Engine, even the Cronos is worse than a little reverse C-Section.
>>54903639
Made Sentient by the True Kin.
Also not all the daemons and gods bring suffering, in fact Papa Nurgle prevents suffering in his children.

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>>54902408
Second behind being tormented by chaos, though this follows immediately, doesn't it? They actively feed a soul to slaanesh.

>>54903708
Daemonculaba ain't even the worst part, it's more so the fact that the IW view slaves and cultists with such little regard that they don't care what they do to them and view it as a means to an end as human lives and souls are merely tools for them to use. This uncaring efficiency honestly makes them more horrifying than chaos

>>54903720
No they drink the souls of slaves to stave off She-Who-Thirsts, since She is constantly nibbling at the True Kin's souls.
>>54903744
Yeah, they are both pretty bad ways to end up though you are more likely to die with the IW than with the True Kin (which is a blessing).

>>54903336
>human souls dissolve
Xeno-lover scumbab. How do you explain that time the Emperor summoned the ghosts of former legions to help him in battle?
In fact, a human soul can beat the shit out of whatever xeno-soul your boypussy craves the dick from.

>>54903899
Strong souls survive, the Emperor is undeniably strong (as are his Astartes).
The common Mon-Keigh is a weak and forgettable creature and as such their soul is dissolved upon death faithful or heretic.

>>54903899
>How do you explain that time the Emperor summoned the ghosts of former legions to help him in battle?

They are warp constructs that the Emperor created. You know, the Angel of Fire in Mlect. They aren't really people.

We have seen in ADB's other novels what happens to souls when they enter the Warp. Even MoM you are referencing. Drach'nyen zooms through people dissolving in the Warp. Then you have Khayon atomising a Space Wolf. The Space Wolf died so fast that his soul didn't notice he died until the Warp wshed over it and started dissolving it.

>>54903293

But an omnipotent evil being can do things so awful they literally cannot even be imagined. After all, how can anything exceed the god of excess?

Slaanesh probably has a super-extra-deluxe-dungeon-of-pleasure-and-pain reserved for the souls of Haemonculi who finally fall into Xer grasp, filled with pleasures and horrors beyond the imagining of even the most depraved Dark Eldar. How else would xe have fun with them?

The only real hope for those who fall into daemons grasp is they just are not interesting enough to be bother keeping around.

>>54903972
Molech*

>>54903639
>on level unimaginable in the real world
Exactly, which means you have no frame of reference for how bad things are, and will eventually become jaded over time.

>>54903976
See, I can buy this, an endless dungeon filled with bullshit, but that assumes you've already lived your life and die, using your experience as a frame of reference. By denying someone's life, AND turning it into torture, you can still have them in the hell-furnace, but is it really that bad compared to what they endured during their mortal life? Would it even be hell-torture at that point, or is all that jazz just subjective wankery?

Either way, temporal subjective torture is more imminent and thus more terrifying than eternal displaced torture.

>>54903976
Haemonculi are pain personified.
If causing pain is an art then they are the Picasso and Van Goghs of pain(ting).
While She-Who-Thirsts is Excess personified, I stand by my statement that the Haemonculi are much more skilled at inflicting agony than her, why wouldn't they be?
They, and the other True Kin, created She-Who-Thirsts.
Also, the Chaos gods are not Omnipotent.
Far from it.
Even Tzeentch needs his minion (who's name escapes me) to look into the future.

>>54903972
Human souls > Xeno souls
>>54903943
That was one of those doppleganger xenos, not a human.

>>54904076
No, you are a dumbass if you think this. The Chaos Gods are the ultimate masters of a realm with no limit, of infinite possibility. Slaanesh is everything the Eldar ever thought up and much much more. He is excess and excess PAIN is his speciality. Slaanesh will always push the limit to reach perfect, looking always for the perfect torture fir everyone. You can wank the Haemonculi back and forth but in truth they are creatures of the material realm and so they are mundane and limited compared to Chaos.

>Even Tzeentch needs his minion (who's name escapes me) to look into the future.

Godamnit. Looks that we have a novice here. Kairos Fateweaver says that while Tzeentch holds all the threads of fate, they mutable and ever branching so his foresight will always have a margin of error no matter how he is good at it. Kairos being thrown in the Well of Eternity was meant to help Tzeentch attain perfect foresight.

>>54904127
>Human souls > Xeno souls

Humans souls are worthless than Eldar souls to daemons.

>>54904127
You could argue Emperor and his Children ≠ True Kin > Mon-Keigh > Other.
You'd be wrong but it would hold more weight than Human > Xeno
>>54904187
>Be Omnipotent
>Needs a minion for Perfect Foresight
You're very smart and I am amazed at your knowledge of the Warhammer 40k Universe.

>>54904216
>You're very smart and I am amazed at your knowledge of the Warhammer 40k Universe.

Omnipotent =/= Omniscient

And I am amazed at your lack of argument. The fact remains every torture the Dark Eldar thought up Slaanesh already knows and considering that Slaanesh exists in a realm without time he has the eternity to think up, implement, test, and experiment with new tortures. He doesn't have to run after materials. He can think up an create anything he desires in his/her realm.

So acting like that the Dark Eldar who at best have 20K years of experience at their work with a deity that have been doing it for literally an eternity that stretches from the start of the universe to its end, is mindbogglingly stupid.

It's a toss up between them and Slannesh

>>54904301
Start of the universe my arse.
The Aeldari birthed She-Who-Thirsts you retard.
What's more, the True Kin can keep you alive for decades upon decades.
Like >>54904066 said, temporal subjective torture is more imminent than eternal displaced torture and thus much worse.

There was no argument by the way, just you wanking over how great the Chaos gods (who needed to be created by mortals) are, I admit I am biased towards the Aeldari so I can't really hold your bias against you. And I will concede I spazzed out and mixed up the meanings of omnipotent and omniscient, a rather common mistake in my defense.

>>54904479
Nope, In Gav Thorpes novel, the Eldar refer to Slaanesh as the mother of Khaine. Also they refer to her as both the child and PARENT of the Eldar race. A goddess-god that's both young and ancient.

Why the fuck did you ignore that time does not exist in the Warp? Slaanesh always existed in the Warp.

> decades upon decades.

While Slaanesh can keep you alive for eternity. Forcing whatever physical form she desires on, and altering your psyche in any way she wishes.

>There was no argument by the way, just you wanking over how great the Chaos gods (who needed to be created by mortals) are

The Chaos Gods predate the mortals that created them. Daemons of Chaos, like Be'lakor, was present before the War in Heaven and they were a threat to the Old Ones.

>>54902408
>>54902592
Either way, I find the Haemonculi scarier, even if they're not as powerful as a court of Slaaneshi daemons. There's just something more visceral about them. The Warp is metaphorical and without form, so it's kind of hard to imagine that fate or contextualize it - it's a vague, indeterminate terror.

It's the same reason why, despite the horrific shit Iron Warriors and Slaaneshi cultists and Inquisitors do, I can't quite find any of it as disturbing as the Black Lab guys from Infinity.

>>54904551
"Thousands upon thousands of years later, when the Eldar race traveled to the stars and forged a great empire, they grew decadent and indulgent. Their thoughts and emotions coalesced in the Warp into a new and deadly god - Slaanesh. The birth of Slaanesh and the Fall of the Eldar heralded the end of the Eldar pantheon. Slaanesh slew the Eldar gods viciously - Lileath, Asuryan, even the old, blind Morai-Heg were murdered by Slaanesh. Khaine, the mightiest warrior of the gods did battle with Slaanesh in the Warp and was cast down, eventually shattered into a million pieces that became his Avatars. Thus did Lileath's prophecy come true, and the Eldar were the cause of Khaine's destruction - even as he battled to save them. Slaanesh is the youngest God in the Chaos pantheon."

Obvious copy and paste but it gets the info across.

Also, it may be true that She-Who-Thirsts could keep you alive for eternity.
Though that would require restraint from the Literal god of excess, your soul would be devoured rather than tortured forevermore.

>>54904680
>Obvious copy and paste but it gets the info across.

It has no point. Like i said, time is meaningless in the Warp.

Be'lakor who is a creation of Slaanesh has memories of the Eldar first homeworlds and the Necrontyr first Necropolis.

>your soul would be devoured rather than tortured forevermore.

Guess what? The Eldar are the latter. Slaanesh tortures Eldar souls forever as payment for rejecting her.

>>54902408
Gellar Field failure.

All the lovable cartoon characters that inhabit the warp will event horizon your ass.

>>54904857
>Be'lakor who is a creation of Slaanesh has memories of the Eldar first homeworlds and the Necrontyr first Necropolis
Source?

>>54904857
What?
She-Who-Thirsts has an insatiable hunger for Aeldari souls, it has fuck all to do with rejection.

You keep spouting the same shit and while time may be meaningless in the warp things that don't exist yet don't exist yet and things that exist exist.
Warp or no warp, She-Who-Thirsts was birthed by the Aeldari and then slaughtered most of there pantheon.
But this is going off topic and I'm getting bored of you repeating yourself.

>>54904948
Might pop by to see the source though.

>>54904857
Pretty sure Be'lakor is not a Prince of Slaanesh.

>>54904948
"Ahriman : The First Prince".

>>54904975

>t has fuck all to do with rejection.

Then read "Aurelian".

>You keep spouting the same shit and while time may be meaningless in the warp things that don't exist yet don't exist yet and things that exist exist.

Because you idiotically implied that the Dark Eldar are older than Slaanesh and disbelieved that Slaanesh always existed in the Warp even back then at the start of the universe. You keep throwing irrelevant things.

>>54905023
The Chaos Gods united to create Be'lakor. He is the creation of all four of them. And guess what? He predates the Fall by thousands of years if not millions of years.

>>54903708
Nurgle does not keep is followers from suffering. The opposite. They get so much of it they font really care or feel anything anymore.

>>54905035
Believing demons.

>>54905071
You don't have to believe anything. Check the fluff. Be'lakor is the first Daemon Prince of Chaos.

Doombreed is a daemon prince of Khorne, created in the medieval ages long long before the Fall. Be'lakor predates that guy.

>>54902408
No there must be a 40k equivalent of watching QPR play away from home.

>>54902501
That art is pretty shit.

If you're an Ork its like being kidnapped to an all-you-can-eat buffet by sorority girls

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>>54904479
You DO realize that the concept of "Time" has literally *no* meaning within the Warp right? The Chaos God's are fullblown acausal, meaning that the normal state of cause and effect has no bearing on them. In fact, Slaanesh was even manipulating events far in the past of the Eldar empire in order to ensure its birth further down the line. You clearly have no idea how Chaos functions if even something as simple as thisoon eludes you.

>>54905608
What did Anon mean by this

>>54905150
"This art from when 40K was still drawing heavy inspiration from the 2000AD anthologies is pretty shit."
No you.

>>54905782
>He doesn't know about the Eldar Gods, M'kar, or all the other Warp entities straight up deleted from existence

>>54908048
>Eldar Gods

They aren't deleted from existence. They are merely slumbering inside Slaanesh. Yriel saw the future where the Eldar lay low Slaanesh. The Eldar Gods all rise again to their glory.

>>54908127
>Believing anything can defeat a Chaos God
LMAO

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>>54908218
>mfw I am the end of She Who Thirsts

>>54902408
That or being blessed by nurgle

>>54908218
Necrons can.

If Necrons close the warp, bye bye.

>>54908349
>Hogtied by Ahriman in a finger snap

>>54908450
Building the wall, won't make Mexico disappear.

>>54908909
Without souls the chaos gods will die out.

The warp won't cease to exist, but the chaos gods will.

>>54905150
You are retarded and grown up on anime.

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>>54907608
The very second Necromunda is back I'm starting a Redemptionists gang led by Tomas de Torquemada.

>>54909704
No, they won't.

>>54903720
>have no armour and exposed skin
>get destroyed by flashlights immediately

>>54910070
>flashlight pieces skin
>this does nothing
>destroy upper torso
>it regenerates

>>54910089
Now that's just bullshit

>>54909704
See the thing about that is that as long as souls exist, the chaos gods won't die, because as has earlier been stated, they are acausal. They exist always, so even if the warp is sealed up, if it's ever unsealed at any point in time where souls still exist, they will continue to exist. The only way to wipe out chaos gods is to destroy all soul-bearing life in the universe. And at that point it doesn't really matter if they exist or not does it?

>>54910117
that is a valid response to everything about eldar in any situation

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>>54910144
Out of all the races in 40k and beyond, eldar are my least favorite
Cheating pointy ear'd bastards are way to op

What if I pledge my soul to Nurgle during the tortures of deldar? Will they just kill me off since I cant feel pain anymore?

>>54910304
>cant feel pain
thats what you think, its just an excuse to get fancy really

>>54910206
personally i hate dwarves/smallfolk, and wookies

also catpeople

>>54909984
They will. They were created by the psychic beings mental energies and literally feed on them. Did you forget that Nurgle was created by the black plague or Khorne by the mongol bloodbath? How could they exist without something to fed them?

>>54910118
Closing the warp will instantly kill all psychic races.

>>54910453
>Did you forget that Nurgle was created by the black plague or Khorne by the mongol bloodbath?
pretty sure thats not cannon anymore- since khorne was around since the first time an animal killed another and nurgle the first plague

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>>54910372
>cat people

>>54910476
>not cannon
Oh really? Damn. I am corrected then.

Still, did they reset the 'all races who depend on the warp instantly die if closed' thing too? Because if so they would still be wiped out.

>>54910453
>Closing the warp will instantly kill all psychic races.
and opening it again allows the potential for more psychic races to come into existence.

>>54910543
Who would open it again?

And if they did, who said the new chaos gods would be exactly like previous?

>>54910538
>'all races who depend on the warp instantly die if closed'
no idea, it would prabably kill psykers- and more with infrastructure damage, but pariahs/null zones exist and people have survived being in/near those

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>>54903293

being a Rubric marine must suck

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>>54910453
>They will. They were created by the psychic beings mental energies and literally feed on them.

The lore outright states that Chaos will kill every single being in the galaxy and it will continue trucking around. Your move. Find a source that says they are going die.

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>OP asked what would be the worst possible fate in 40K.
>Carnac ruins the thread because someone suggested an answer that did not involve Chaos.
Modern /tg/, everyone!

>>54902408
gellar field failure

>>54911318
>modern
Carnac's been ruining threads since 2012 at least. Though back then he namefagged as TIDF.

>>54910578
you're not fucking getting it. They wouldn't be new chaos gods. they'd be the same ones. They're acausal. As long as they exist, they will always exist, because they do.

>>54911978
Another reason of why nu-chaos sucks.

>>54912198
well get used to it. everything will be made hateful. that's how things properly die. they don't shut down in their glory days they keep going and getting worse till in 6 years time you come across a games workshop, walk inside and immediately vomit. and then pretend it doesn't exist and that you just lost interest in 40k and that it's still exactly as you remember.

>>54903943

Spess meringues don't maintain consciousness in the warp. They aren't mentally any different from regular people aside from things like reaction times and other gene mods. It's only psykers that have make an impact in the warp.

>>54911318
no less than 3 people have said going through the warp

>>54904857
>Be'lakor

Oh God it's Carnac.

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>>54911318
>mfw I haven't been hanging around a whole year yet and I'm already seeing this pattern
>mfw I can already recognize his 'no speculation is allowed except when it benefits Chaos' bullshit within 3 posts

>>54911886
So... just one year after GW/BL writers went full Chaos fanboy and started shoving Chaos wank into everything?

...Are we sure this guy isn't a GW writer operating under a pseudonym?

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>>54902408
Cant be worse than being stuck on the Golden Throne.

>>54908349
>Mfw the eldars greatest hope is a keeper of secrets fucking with them.

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>>54902408
Nope,being obliterated by a null tops even that.

>>54915751
>A psyker being raped by a pariah

No, the worst thing that can happen to you is getting stuck in a thread that gets Shit up by Carnac

>>54915776
You don't even need to be a psyker.Just not being a null makes you vulnerable.
>>54915840
And i thought the null was bad

>>54915902
>>54915776
A Pariah assassin deletes your soul. So you won't feel nothing. after you die.

If I got you in the face, then your souls will go to the Warp where it will dissolve. It's said to be a painful experience akin to burning to death.

>>54907404
Orks dragged to the gladiatorial pits get to get famous just for fighting, with all manner of xenos brought to them.

>>54915902
Somewhere in the pleasure chambers of slaanesh, past the curtains of human skin and the endless alternating human
/ork centipede, there is a small, unassuming room with a laptop. The only page open is /tg/. You are instructed to do Nothing but win an argument with Carnac, and once you do, you're free to go. Or you can give up and join the humork centipede. What do?

>>54915926
>. So you won't feel nothing. after you die.
Yes but before you die you will experience your own inexistence.And this is a terror above anything else in 40k can cause.
>>54915947
>What do?
I win the argument with Carnac.He always loses,he just sticks after his sorry ass is ravaged.

>>54916077
>I win the argument with Carnac.He always loses,he just sticks after his sorry ass is ravaged.

What argument? Name one argument you won.

>will experience your own inexistence

I have no idea why people intentionally want to be dumbasses for the sake of their biases. A pariah murdering some one usually lasts for moments. Horror and then nothingness.

Having your soul being dissolve in the Warp can last an eternity in the Warp because of the temporal condition of the Warp. Suffering imaginable pain while everything you are is being consumed by the Warp.

With the pariahs you are too scared to comprehend what just happened. Flash and you are gone. In the Warp you will have time to appreciate the process of being rendered down to non-existence. Of course, that's assuming no daemon finds you first and then the true torments begin.

>>54916245
unimaginable*

>>54916245
>What argument? Name one argument you won
Considering you refuse to apply your own set of standards to anything Chaos-related because it might put your precious faction in a bad light...


Everyone who argues with you wins by default.

Seriously your own double-standards disqualify you from ever winning this sort of bullshit.

>>54916583
>Considering you refuse to apply your own set of standards to anything Chaos-related because it might put your precious faction in a bad light...

What is this gibberish. There is no standard other than what is in the fluff. I simply cite what's in the fluff and you sperg like the bitch you are and try to deny it. Then later you act more of a bitch when you bitch about the fluff ?I cited showing that you do agree with it being a thing.

In summation, you are a bitch.

>>54916671
>There is no standard other than what is in the fluff (and any time I infer something on Chaos' behalf. No one else can do this for their factions, but I can because Chaos must always win)

I watched you literally do this crsp in another thread earlier today Carnac. The only one that spergs like a bitch is you, not the rest of us.

>>54916847
More gibberish.

Infer what? Infer something wrong and get disproven by the fluff? This is your issue. I don't just infer I back up what I say with the fluff at hand cite sources. You on other other hand continuously sperg helplessly. Go to your bitch corner and don't come back until you find something substance to say. I don't want give a troll more (you) then I have to.

>>54907608
>it's not shit because it's drawing inspiration from some obscure thing that's important to me because nostalgia

>>54905782
is there any keeper of secrets thats look like this instaed of the absolute trash that GW makes? I got myself 30 Juan Diaz deamonettes and want something to match.

>>54916917
The FW Keeper of Secrets?

>>54916932
Mm far too much fucking about with the stupid hair

>>54902592
I personally find the idea of Dark Eldar worse than Daemons, not even sure why, they seem more torture and pain orientated

>>54902408
Becoming a Helbrute seems more terrible to me.

Daemons don't care about your suffering as there are always more souls to play with. Deldar want to make sure you get as much as you can possibly take before making sure you can take some more.

>>54911026
>If the Emperor should fail

>>54917316
Actually, it's said that Chaos hates every single mortal being on an individual level and has plan for them all.

>>54917405
Not the point.

And you can add If the Pylons have been removed from the galaxy to that line.

>>54917408
So everyone has their own personal daemon?

Emps kind of fucked up hard then.

>>54917414
>Not the point.
:D

>>54917423
More like Chaos prepares a personal hell for all of us.

>>54917414
> pylons.
You mean waystones.

>>54917453
> chaos is hell.

Sounds like someone's feeling a little euphoric, no?

To my mind Chaos is much worse than humanity's paltry conception of hell.

>>54917456
Necron Pylons don't act as storage houses for elf souls as far as we know.

>>54917462
The Word Bearers say that Chaos only gives us what we deserve. So hell is accurate.

>>54917465
>tfw the infinity circuits onboard the craftworlds have been necron pylons this whole time.
>On a nearby agri-world, Trazyn lights up an e-cigar and smiles as they figure this out and desperately try and get grammy's soul out.

>>54917468
Except that Chaos predates the human conception of Hell.

Pull your head out your ass please.

>>54917483
Well if Chaos is affected by souls that means that it technically is the human conception of Hell because we shape the warp around our own perceptions of what it's like. They established this with Kaldor Draigo, he can influence the warp with his willpower, but lesser, more frightened humans do it unintentionally because they think the warp should look like that. So yeah the warp is actually Hell.

>>54917497
Except Hell doesn't exist in the 41st millenium because of the Emperor you tremendous douchenugget.

>>54917483
Drach'nyen predates humanity and their bible despite being born of the First Murder. Drach'nyen imprinted itself on every human that live, lived, and will live across space and time. That's why the First Murder have been known in many human cultures with each culture having a name for it. If Abel and Cain story was spawned by the birth of a daemon, then why wouldn't the concept of hell also be?

>>54917529
Because the Emperor says no and purged christianity and most earth religions.

Hell could *potentially* exist according to Xenos impressions of chaos, but they understand it much better than that.

>>54917508
Oh yeah you're right, the emperor TOTALLY succeeded at getting rid of all religions and it has been that way since he was put on the golden throne. There has been absolutely NO CHANGE in that. And some kind of religious fanatical cult that got started by Lorgar TOTALLY HASN'T taken over the mindset of imperial citizens in place of the emperor's own friendly atheism. How could I have been so mistaken.

>>54917543
Lorgar never originally made mention of Chaos and he certainly never fucking made mention of Hell.

To the point where Lorken in the HH books didn't know what a Daemon looked like.

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>>54917539
Dude, when thoughts enter the Warp, they remain there forever. They can never be removed or destroyed. The human concept of hell is forever part of the Warp. There are many daemons that were born from from xitan atrocities and their forms echo Xitan symbolism. For example, the Ragged Knight.

Anyways, the Emperor did not and could not purge religion wholly. People worshiped him and other stuff behind his back. For example, the ancient Perpetual Olly Pius was a xitan.

>>54917554
So takin a different tact. Who punishes sinners in the imperial cult? Who is their Satan and what is their Hell? Because there is one, by another name or definition, otherwise there wouldn't be so much fear and devotion to the emperor amongst the populace, not without something to keep them in line.

>>54917574
The human concept of hell is small change compared to the fact that Slaanesh is an Eldar manifestation, that Khorne is the Oldest of the Chaos Gods, that Tzeentch is the LORD OF CHANGE and Nurgle represents the death of everything.

Chaos is so much more than some paltry human conception of hell.

>>54917576
> who punishes sinners.
The Ecclesiarchy.
> who is their satan and what is their hell.
That information is deemed heretical and you will submit yourself to lobotomization for transformation into a servitor you filth.

>>54902959
>blue balls for millenia isnt bad

>>54917584
The Chaos Gods use humanity as their main power source, They use them so much that the Tau noted that the daemons they were fighting were speaking an archaic version of the Imperial Gothic.

>>54902408
Nope - worse you could do is to get captured by Necromundian 88 - the famus penal company that routinely takes female prisoners and designates a love chimera for the whole company. There the sad Eldar witch will be humiliated and forked to oblivion by monkeighs.

>>54917606
That's recent history as far as chaos is concerned. Reminder that the older Daemons all have names that predate Gothic.

>‘Something you said, it matches the Old Ways of Colchis.’ He quoted verbatim from the texts of the very religion he’d once overthrown in the name of Emperor-worship. ‘It is said that ‘‘upon death, the unshackled soul drifts into the infinite, to be judged by thirsting gods’’.’

>Ingethel made a choking, coughing gargle. It took Lorgar a moment to realise the creature was laughing.

>It is the core of a million human faiths throughout your species’ lifespan. The Primordial Truth is in humanity’s blood. You all reach for it. You all know that something awaits after death. The faithful, the loyal, will be judged kindly and reside in their gods’ domains. The faithless, the unbelievers, will drift through the aether, serving as prey for the Neverborn. The warp is the end of all spirits. It is the destination of every soul.

>‘That is hardly the Heaven promised in most human faiths,’ Lorgar felt his lip curling.

>No. But it is the same hell your species has always feared.

>The primarch couldn’t argue with that.

The idea of hell was inspired by the Warp. Deep down humanity knew of Chaos and the fate of all souls.

>>54911978
That makes no sense what so ever. Even if Slaneesh allways existed, xe wasn't allways as powerful. Slaneesh might have allways existed, but so may an infinite amount of other chaos gods and warp entities that have not yet come to power. There are currently these four because they control the strongest emotions and can feed on the strongest psychic energies and those smother out all other chaos entities, but if you were to close the warp, depriving all within it of all energy, slaneesh and khorn etc. will continue to exist forever, but that doesn't mean that there won't be other warp entities that have existed forever and will exist forever that will become the dominant force that is "born" of some cause and sucks up all the psychic energies before the old guard can rise again after opening the warp again.

>>54917620
Recent and ancient means nothing to Chaos. Be'lakor who is the first daemon prince of Chaos was a human despite the fact that his ascension predates humanity crawling out of the primordial soup.

>>54917637
"Lorgar never originally made mention of Chaos and he certainly never fucking made mention of Hell".

My statement stands considering it was a Daemon that said it and not Lorgar.

I can certainly see why certain Daemons would want humanity to believe in hell though.

>>54917660
> ancient means nothing to chaos.

Tell that to Mr. Just as Planned.

> all these kiddos who think humanity means something to the swirling maw that is Warp.

Lorgar would have a fucking field day with you. Enjoy being bloodletter chow.

>>54917676
You are literally making no sense.

>>54917665
Lorgar was saying that Warp and the fate of the Eldar matches the concepts of judgement and afterlife punishment in his old religion.

Doesn't the warp reflect a mirror image of actions/emotions/experiences of the material world?

So in theory a Chaos god like Slaannesh could only be as crude and make beings suffer to the extent that mortal beings in the real world had been capable of inflicting on others. I mean there is no added information except what is expressed in the real world that is then reflected in the warp.

Or maybe Chaos God's, having achieved sentience are able to think new ways of torturing mortals in excess of what mortals are capable of.

>>54917709
> no sense.
Tzeentch, the Changer of Ways, basically bent humanity to his will. And he used Lorgar to do it.

In a very real sense Chaos was entirely unconcerned with humanity until Tzeentch decided to make a plaything of us.

>>54917700
Humanity means nothing to Chaos. Just another race to be consumed like all those who can become them. HOWEVER, you mentioning Lorgar makes no sense since he believes that humanity is destined to the exception to the cycle of extinction. He believes that humanity will be the race that will find equilibrium and symbiosis with Chaos.

>>54917720
>Tzeentch

You mean Fateweaver. Which head said it?

>>54917710
The Chaos Gods are sentient and are infinitely more than the sum of their parts.

>>54917710
Slaanesh is a creature of sensation and only care about reality in those specific terms. It is only as intelligent as the creatures who serve it. Considering it is made primary of Eldar minds and Eldar souls (countless billions prior to the fall, as many as the current Imperium) it is at least as intelligent as they are in going about it's objectives.

Khorne doesn't give a fuck. Nurgle doesn't give a fuck.

Only Tzeentch has the capability for imaginining and abstracts beyond the ability of creatures that exist in the reality of the 41st millennium.

>>54917723
Lorgar basically lost the game, but he came the closest to winning and he was rewarded with daemonhood as a prince of Chaos Undivided.

Which is what Horus would have ended up with if he didn't fuck up.

>>54917731
Both. But it didn't matter because at that point Lorgar was already humming Tzeentch's tune.

>>54917736

Do you have a source on this and if so how they draw upon new ideas?

>>54917739

>Slaanesh is a creature of sensation and only care about reality in those specific terms. It is only as intelligent as the creatures who serve it. Considering it is made primary of Eldar minds and Eldar souls (countless billions prior to the fall, as many as the current Imperium) it is at least as intelligent as they are in going about it's objectives.

Well this is my point, does this mean that the VERY WORST Slaanesh could do to you is equal to the very worst an Eldar has ever done to another living being, meaning that being caught by Dark Eldar or your soul being tormented by chaos could only be equal. Unless there is some unknown species in the galaxy that is even worse and that is reflected by Chaos.

>>54917765
Tzeentch. He represents change and therefore has the ability to warp souls beyond what they originally were. Warp Spawn are his domain of influence.

Basically he can create new intelligences. It would be like an AI that could create new and better versions of itself that were slaved to the host machine.

Basically Tzeentch has the capacity to be even crueller and harsher than Slaanesh, but isn't really interested.

Which is presumably why Magnus didn't get fucked over too hard when Horus told the Space Wolves to go and kill him.

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>>54917795
Quit your headcanoning. Cite sources.

>>54917765

>>54914761
It's terrible because even chaos-fags like me hate it
>no undivided ANYTHING except tako'bel
>undivided daemon princes do NOT real except bel who will backstab abbadon and any other leader of chaos to be the final boss invented 30 years into the setting
>fuck your armies if they're not mono-god because nobody can give homage to all gods of chaos or just fight for chaos in general
Fuck carnac

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>>54917810

>>54917810
Warp Spawn are a manifestation of Change in it's rawest form. They are embodiments of the Warp. And if you're implying that a creator God cannot create something more versed in creation than itself whilst retaining control over said being then you simply underestimate the capabilities of Tzeentch.

Of all the chaos gods, while Khorne and Nurgle might have the greater power, it's Tzeentch that gives the warp form. In a very real sense he makes the other chaos gods vulnerable simply by existing - though their vulnerabilities are so fantastically insurmountable that to even think about beating them would be like pissing in a hurricane.

*cough* Emps *cough*

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>>54917837
>Warp Spawn are a manifestation of Change in it's rawest form. They are embodiments of the Warp. And if you're implying that a creator God cannot create something more versed in creation than itself whilst retaining control over said being then you simply underestimate the capabilities of Tzeentch.

Warp Spawn are just mortals who are given too many gifts by the gods. All Chaos Gods can make Warpspwn.

>Of all the chaos gods, while Khorne and Nurgle might have the greater power

Khorne is the strongest, followed closely by Tzeentch, third in power is Nurgle, and the weakest is Slaanesh.

The rest of you post enlist the "lolwat" reaction of me.

>>54917858
Are you suggesting that there are aspects of the Warp that do not fall into the domain of the four chaos gods?

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>>54917825
>>no undivided ANYTHING except tako'bel

Never said that. In fact, I always talk about Drach'nyen who is a daemon of Undivided.

>>undivided daemon princes do NOT real except bel who will backstab abbadon and any other leader of chaos to be the final boss invented 30 years into the setting

Be'lakor according to the Index Chaos is the only daemon prince without a single master (aka Undivided) and he does intend to backstab Abaddon and take his fate.

>>fuck your armies if they're not mono-god because nobody can give homage to all gods of chaos or just fight for chaos in general

Never said that ever. Whenever someone says a diverse daemon force is unfluffy, I point them at the Brazen Host or any other canonical mixed force.

The problem with anti-Chaosfags and Anti-Bellyfags is that they want to ruin the setting but they just don't know how. Thankfully, GW is staying true to the setting's principles.

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>anon scared of a little bdsm

>>54917890
> want to ruin the setting.

Except that's false. It's simply that they're pro-chaosfags who have imagined it better than GW have.

And despite the warp being a realm of unlimited potential and possibility this is bad, according to the writers.

>>54917870
How the hell did you take that from my post? The answer to your unrelated question is yes. The Formless Waste aka the Chaos Abyss and the Forge of Souls exist outside the Chaos Gods jurisdiction,

There are also Unaligned daemons that continuously get born in the Warp. Most them are are destroyed or enslaved by the forces of the Chaos Gods.

>>54917656
Of course it doesn't make sense. It's chaos, it doesn't make sense by definition.

>>54917903
>Not understand what's Chaos role in the setting and its core concepts
>"they're pro-chaosfags"

No.

>according to the writers.

What writers? I hope you got some citation.

>>54917870
>what are furies

>>54917928
> implying that chaos can be understood and limited by the human imagination.

Good job on underselling there.

>>54917913
So Chaos is anybody's game, then?

>>54917945
So Chaos is anybody's game, then?

In the Formless Waste at least.

>Good job on underselling there.

We are not inverse dudes in the setting. We have the fluff and developer notes to explain Chaos to us.

>>54917825
It is a good thing then that Chaos Undivided is back in Chaos 8E with Logar and Pertubado.

>>54917870
Not that asshole but, eldar gods, Mork and Gork, Fenris Spirits.

>>54917968
> we have hard and fast rules on how chaos works.

Then Why Would Empy have gone to such extreme measures considering his impressive awareness of what Chaos is if there are hard and fast rules not subject to change?

If there are rules then that means humanity has a fighting chance, and the setting is no longer grimdark.

New player here, if the hedonism of the eldar birthed slanesh, and all eldar now fear their souls being tickled for eternity, why do dark eldar still act how they do? Are they just so committed to the pre-fall lifestyle? Is the eldars life of meditation actually protecting them? Do they have soulstones?

>>54918021
> Mork and Gork.
Implying they aren't primordial offshoots of Khorne.
> Eldar Gods.
What, you mean like Slaanesh?
> Fenris Spirits.
Ancestor ghosts, you mean. It is noted in Chosen of Khorne that these are manifestations trapped between the warp and realspace, their souls unclaimed.

At least according to Maven.

>>54918038
The Emperor is an in-verse character, dingus. He didn't know all there is to Chaos clearly.

>>54918021
>Chaos Undivided is back in Chaos 8E with Logar and Pertubado.

Not according to Path to Glory. Chaos characters may only choose between Four paths to daemonhood. There isn't a fifth.

>>54918050
You can just download the Dark Eldar codex or use one of the warhammer wiki. this isn't a place for basic questions like that.

>>54918050
Dark Eldar souls are still claimed by Slaanesh, however by exacting suffering upon other beings they experience a rejuvenating effect.

>>54918050
>Are they just so committed to the pre-fall lifestyle?
Yes.
>Is the eldars life of meditation actually protecting them?
It keeps daemons away from their minds, so yes
>Do they have soulstones?
No, they torture people to fill their own souls.

>>54918054
>Maven.
Literally who?

>>54918050

They were saved by existing in the webway during the birth of Slaanesh, so their entire lifestyle was still intact and saw no reason to change. Even when they discovered their souls are slowly being sapped away by Slaanesh they realised they can just counteract this indefinitely by using other beings soul anguish as a proxy for their own. They replenish their own souls by making others suffer. So they're hopelessly addicted to the lifestyle that bore Slaanesh and so ruthless that if any of them even admitted to themselves that fact they would become vulnerable and be seen as weak. They pretend they just do with for fun. They don't have soulstones, when they die their soul hangs around for a while and can be restored to a new body or regenerated from a body part that was retrieved from the battlefield.

>>54918061
So by deceiving humanity, the Emperor essentially cut himself off from one of the greatest weapons as his disposal. That's what you're saying rly.

>>54918072
>>54918078
So they are Chaos Eldar?

>>54918078
A legion serf of the World Eaters who experienced Ghosts in the vaults of Scalathrax when he went to confront Kharn the Betrayer in the aftermath of what happened there.

>>54918100
Much moreso than their fantasy counterparts at least.

Basically they have a bargain with Slaanesh that puts them on sort of even footing. In the same way that people who work in retail work on behalf of people who work in high rise buildings.

>>54918100
Not exactly.

There is old fluff about Chaos eldar that claoms they are the most valuable servants of the Dark Gods, but their minds are so broken that gettin nommed by Slaanesh is actually a mercy.

There are rumors that they are making a comeback in 8E.

>>54918061
>Path to Glory
Is that a HH novel? If yes then...
>Codex > BL.

>>54918107
So another sod mindfucked by the chaos gits? Not a valuable source.

>>54918126
>Is that a HH novel? If yes then...

No, it's a TT adventure campaign for AoS and 40K where you get to play CSM or WoC warbands. The ultimate goal is to get your warband leader to daemonhood.

Players get to choose only four paths.

>>Codex > BL.

Nope.

>>54918140
He was one of the unfortunate ones who was still loyal to the legion and not to Khorne. Kharn found him unworthy of death due to his advanced age and frailty.

>>54918126
> dark eldar are just servants of slaanesh.
I prefer my idea. >>54918115

>>54918159
I did not mean they are servants of that sick fuck. (Why else a large group of them would join the Ynnari)

>>54918178
They pledged them to Ynnead because he grants immorality and the chance to indulge in their desires without the fear of Slaanesh.

>>54902408

It's the fourth worst fate.

The third worst is your soul being taken by Slaanesh to be molested for eternity.

The second worst fate in 40k, from about fifteen years ago until very recently, was just to play 40k and get sucked into it.

But the worst, by far, of all fates is to have your minis handled by cheeto-stained grimy sweaty neckbeard fingers-- without permission-- as his weight-induced panting, irregular breathing blubbers out lame and self-aggrandizing critiques of your army list and painting job.

>>54903553

I don't think you have nothingness. That's what happens when a human dies and isn't claimed by one of the Chaos Powers. But if they ARE, for whatever reason, then I don't think they get to fade away into oblivion.

I imagine it as CS Lewis's version of Hell in screwtape letters, where you're devoured in the sense that the demon fully subsumes your identity and agency into his own will, even as you retain your consciousness.

It's kind of like battered wife syndrome, or a slave who's been utterly broken by tragedy and abuse, or a victim of blackmail or extortion. Or like Winston Smith at the end of 1984. You're aware of who you are, but utterly defeated and unable to resist-- except that since you and the one who consumed you are both spirits, the control is more perfect and intimate and inescapable. You're absorbed, bolted on, trapped as a permanent component of its being. A little like that monster in Doctor Who, the Abzorbaloff, which did it bodily.

Whereas with a Dark Eldar, yes the pain is excruciating. Yes they can extend it indefinitely, even cure your madness and counter your brain's attempts to acclimate and tune it out, maybe even extend your life somewhat. But ultimately, just as you have diminishing returns on happiness and pleasure, you have diminishing returns on merely physical and psychological pain and suffering.

As terrible as being taken by the Dark Eldar would be-- a truly hideous and awful fate-- it's at least finite. Taken by one of the Chaos powers is eternal and infinite. It transcends the merely biological and mental into the realm of spiritual harm that lasts forever, and both encompasses and enlarges upon merely temporal suffering.

>>54905782
Yeah, I had assumed Slaanesh was always kind of around, the Eldar just fucked a hole in the universe big enough for Slaanesh to get out.

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>>54902408

I'd say chaos claiming your soul is a worse fate. Ultimately the torture of the Deldar ends.

>>54905150
Its really not.

What is Be'lakor was one of the lost primarchs?

>>54918054
>Implying they aren't primordial offshoots of Khorne.
>Gork n' Mork
>primordial offshoots of Khorne
LOLWUT.

And people like Carnac have the gall to give xenosfags shit for anything that they think looks slightly headcanon-y. The hypocrisy here is astounding.

>>54920383
>It's kind of like battered wife syndrome, or a slave who's been utterly broken by tragedy and abuse, or a victim of blackmail or extortion. Or like Winston Smith at the end of 1984. You're aware of who you are, but utterly defeated and unable to resist-- except that since you and the one who consumed you are both spirits, the control is more perfect and intimate and inescapable. You're absorbed, bolted on, trapped as a permanent component of its being. A little like that monster in Doctor Who, the Abzorbaloff, which did it bodily.

That shit is dark.

>>54917468
The Word Bearers are moronic butt muppets easily strung along by obvious lies.

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>>54917890
>The problem with anti-Chaosfags and Anti-Bellyfags is that they want to ruin the setting but they just don't know how. Thankfully, GW is staying true to the setting's principles.
That being "Space Marines always win".

>Chaos manlet literally tossed off a cliff by a chad like the obsolete garbage he is

>>54904187
>omnipotent
>can't even exist under their own power.

They sure as fuck ain't Yahweh bro.

>>54920383
>you have diminishing returns on merely physical and psychological pain and suffering.
They can reset your memory through. Like in Amnesia.

>>54920773
Souls are dissolved on the warp. Unless you are Eldar.