Why do people play games like MTG and Warhammer 40k? They are

>>54889088
They don't.

MTG: As a game, it's basically dead. But as an investment, it keeps growing and growing. MTG is essentially a form of cryptocurrency at this point.

W40k: When was the last time you saw anyone playing that game? It's dead, end of story.

Because they are popular and for people with no friends it is easier to find opponents.

>>54889139
Or they could just play superior alternatives.

MTG is a slow-paced, expensive, paper TCG. It's a relic of the 1990s, and there's no reason to play it over a game that's much faster paced (Yugioh, Vanguard, Dragonball), an online TCG that isn't an ancient piece of trash like MTGO (Pokemon Online, Hearthstone), or a cheaper alternative (LCGs). MTG offers nothing of value to players, and at this point is only good as an investment a la crypto.

And why play W40k over an MMO like WoW, a MOBA like League, or a much cheaper alternative like Settlers of Catan? Again, no good reason to play W40k.

>>54889088
cause its fun and you dont need to spend 1000$ if you only play commander
people that spend that kind of money are just social outcasts that are so deprived of self validation that they need to spend 1000$ on magic so they can feel better than people playing a card game

>>54889269
>faster is better
lmao

>>54889269
>Hearthstone

no

File: 1497114198021.jpg (54KB, 463x343px) Image search: [Google]

54KB, 463x343px

>>54889106
not sure what rock you're living under but you're clearly not actually going into stores to see whats going on.

I don't play magic but see it played at my FLGS daily, with event nights bringing in 20-30 people easy.

As for 40k, 8th edition did much to help make the game fun again. Back in 7th the game was unplayable. Getting a game in felt like a chore. Now it's much faster, rules are far easier to look up, Allies were massively toned down, formation cheese is gone, and in general the worst stuff in 8th is pretty minor gripes with the odd unit or the cover rules. Ever since 8th dropped my store's playerbase quintupled and it's brought in a lot of new players too. The game is far from perfect but it's much better than it was and at least people have fun playing now.

>>54889088
They are the two games that wherever you go, you can always find people to play against. Yes, other games are cheaper, but they have smaller player bases and can be harder to find a group. 40k and magic have massive player bases, and stores tend to push those games as their main sellers, so when new people come in, those are the games they are pointed to. It's kind of a self fulfilling prophecy. Back in 7th, 40k almost died. X-Wing, Bolt Action, War Machine, and countless other games were all eating into GW's playerbase. Had they not released 8th when they did 40k would've lost it's top dog spot and you would see people asking "why does everyone play X-Wing now?"

Another point in 40k's favor is the lore (at least some of it) and the models. No other game is quite like it in the setting department, so it really stands out on the shelves compared to other games.

>>54889269
why in the hell would I play an MMO or a MOBA to get my wargaming fix? Or settlers of Catan?

Had you recommended Dropzone commander, Bolt Action, Warmachine, or any other number of tabletop Wargames, your question would make sense. Instead you suggest alternatives not even close to 40k.

>>54889371
Why not? With online TCGs, you don't have to go to a foul-smelling collectibles shop just to play them, and you don't have to worry about your cards getting stolen. They are much more efficient in every way.

>>54889309
Actually commander players are the ones who spend the most on mtg. I don't see standard players bringing multiple 4000$ decks with them. In EDH? All the time

Because I have the disposable income and free time to. Now back to your field peasant.

>>54889420
Go back to your hedge fund elitist scum.

>>54889407
Because the game is terrible. You don't have to worry about your cards getting stolen and you can sit at home and watch youtube in the background, but it doesn't mean that it's good product because of that.

>>54889433
>MOOOOOM HE HAS SPARE MONEY AND I DONT!!!

>>54889106
>W40k: When was the last time you saw anyone playing that game? It's dead, end of story.
>40k
>just released a new edition, and more players are active in it than have been in years
>dead

This HAS to be bait.

>>54889460

lol

>>54889433
I install cable.

I play 40k and have around 7 armies and counting.

Learn how to manage your money better, you don't need that $6 starbucks every day.

>>54889088
What is a modeling and painting hobby for 40k for 100 Bob.

It's more then just a table top game you fucking mongaloid

>>54889505

Hey Chris, your sister is fucking hot.

The best part about posts like these is how cheap wargames and card games are as a hobby compared to so many other things.

Look up the cost of mountain biking, or trilathons, or woodworking, or so many other hobbies, and tell me 40k is still expensive.

>>54889269
>Hearthstone
I hope you enjoy playing in a meta that's 41% one deck goober. And besides that, mtg is a deeper game than hearthstone, even if MTGO is a piece of shit.
Also, Yugioh is literally a game where the newest sets are mandatory because Konami can't keep the power creep in check. At least in MTG the older cards are the most powerful and Wizards learned their lesson about busted cards for the most part.

>>54889539
No one is comparing 40K to biking other than you. People are comparing 40K to other games, which is generally cheaper.

>>54889582
The base complaint is that they're far too expensive, when the truth is that they're pretty damn cheap is the point.

>>54889592
I can play KoW for almost half the cost of anything GW produces, I think is the point.

>>54889592
OP was quite literally asking why you would play 40K over a cheaper game. I don't agree with him as 40K and MTG have their merits, but he was always comparing them to other games rather than bicycles as you are.

>>54889088
Do you play Dungeons & Dragons?

>>54889539
Agreed

t.salt water fish owner

>>54889535
Git r done

>>54889505
>you don't need that 6$ starbucks every day
>spends upwards of 100 dollars on an unpainted, unassembled chunk of plastic that cost mere cents to create

>>54889088
I don't know either. I used to play 40k, but I jumped ship for cheaper alternatives.

I still play magic, but I don't think I've ever spent more than $10 for a deck or draft.

>>54889685
D&D is actually cheap though thanks to OGL and the rules being freely available on SRDs.

>>54889088
>mtg is expensive
>spending 100 bucks per week for entertainment is expensive
Maybe get out of your mom's basement and get a job?

>>54889539
40k is fucking expensive for a wargame.
It's also expensive compared to Chess, or Soccer, or Tabletop RPGs, or Reading, or Drawing...

I play 40k among other wargames, and it's fucking expensive compared to many other games. It's also not magically cheap or even good value just because Yachting requires several millions.

>>54889088

Neither MTG nor 40k are expensive compared to many ''adult'' hobbies

>>54889756
It's cheap if you compare it to expensive hobbies. Yeah sure there are cheaper hobbies like reading books or some other shit, but people who puts mtg and 40k as some paragon of expensive hobbies are just unemployed poorfags.

>>54889785
It's a good thing that OP was comparing those games to other games rather than yachting then.

>>54889269
>unironically recommending league to people

Yeah, no. That game is the most tilting thing I have ever touched and it's impossible to have anything resembling a good time playing it unless you're dicking around in normals. Even URF got ruined by people spamming Sona.

>>54889088
>you can play a game that's just as good or better for a small fraction of the cost.
Name them then

>>54889845
>but people who puts mtg and 40k as some paragon of expensive hobbies are just unemployed poorfags.
But he never did that. OP said that you can play other games that are a fraction of the cost. I don't think that anyone who is complaining about the prices of MTG and 40K are comparing them to other hobbies.

>>54889918
Song of Blades and Heroes
Kings of War
Of Gods and Mortals
DBA/HoTT
Nearly any historic wargame
Frostgrave

The list can go on. All of these games either allow you to use any models you want or offer much cheaper alternatives

>>54889088
I like them. I find playing them with friends enjoyable. Why else would you play anything?

>>54889970
If you want to compare it to other tcgs, then it became a matter of preference. I like mtg and i don't like other tcgs.
Also, mtg can be the cheapest or the most expensive depends on what format you want to play.

>>54889088
>Why do people play games like MTG and Warhammer 40k? They are WAY too expensive for what they are, and you can play a game that's just as good or better for a small fraction of the cost.

Miniature war games and TCG/CGGs are multiplayer games. If I don't have someone to play against, it doesn't matter how good the game is, because I can't play it.

I'd rather be playing other games, but nobody else wants to.

Some people spend hundreds of dollars getting drunk. You underestimate what constitutes an "expensive" hobby.

>>54889891
But you can't spam in URF anymore

>>54890176
You can certainly spend more on alcohol than on a Magic deck, but OP was pretty clear that he is referring to those games as expensive compared to other games of the same type.

>>54889410
Standard players spend the most over time. They need to keep spending $500 a year just to keep up with the rotations.

>>54889269
>WoW or assfaggots
>a replacement for a wargame
The fuck? You've clearly never played a wargame before, because those are not a replacement for why people play 40k. It'd make more sense to say they should play and RPG

>>54890321
That's why I like EDH. Not necessarily because of the format itself, but because I don't need to grab too much beyond what works with my deck.

>>54889088
I agree. My friends are trying to get me to play warhammer and I refuse. It's just cringey. Painting like army men? What is this fourth grade?

>>54890231
I'd consider it the reverse. Magic isn't a particularly expensive hobby, the others are cheap.

>people who enjoy thing spend money on thing

a novel concept, i know

>>54890231
Then you and OP have never googled to look at how much the price of a tcg booster pack. Sure mtg might not be the cheapest but it's far from being the most expensive.

>>54889732
Hahaha this.

>>54890498
For a booster pack? Sure, the price is standard. But for a deck that won't make you always lose at FNM the buy in is larger. That is more because of MTG's popularity than anything of course, only LCG's break that rule, and even then some less prominent MTG formats (Pauper, EDH) are cheaper.

>>54889088
Because they have a playerbase, regardless of how good or shit they are they are marketed to hell

Show up at the lgs with your spellfire deck or a chainmail army and im sure you can find people to play against, because im sure at least 4 people in the world have had 1 game since last century

>>54890530
Play draft.
Also LCGs need not apply, they should spend more time trying to find someone to play their dead game rather than badmouthing tcgs.

>>54889269
>Yugioh, Vanguard, Dragonball, Pokemon Online, Hearthstone

These games are all complete shit, though.

You have a point with 40K. There are a lot of legitimately much better games out there, and anyone who sticks with GW is a battered housewife at this point. But pretty much all MtG's competition is total ass.

File: 1501353106950.jpg (53KB, 505x670px) Image search: [Google]

53KB, 505x670px

>>54889269
Normally I don't make judgement on taste, but holy fuck.

>>54890567
>spellfire

Holy shit, nostalgia'd hard

File: tunnel.jpg (2MB, 1936x2592px) Image search: [Google]

2MB, 1936x2592px

>>54890594
>play mediocre game just because everyone else does
>play a game you actually like, rarely find an opponent


It's a shit choice. I refuse to give in to the bullshit though so I will take my once or twice a month game and play it happily rather than trudge along pretending I give a shit about the meme.

>>54890530
>But for a deck that won't make you always lose at FNM the buy in is larger.
Who says you HAVE to play competitive FMN? You and three friends can pick up mtg for kitchen table play for like $200 or less split between all of you. Nevermind that you can play sanctioned, competitive limited for like $15. Claiming that Mtg is expensive based on standard, modern, or legacy is like claiming racing is an expensive hobby based on the price of formula one vehicles.

>>54889269
>And why play W40k over an MMO like WoW, a MOBA like League, or a much cheaper alternative like Settlers of Catan? Again, no good reason to play W40k.
Those aren't even decent vidya.

Mediocre bait or retarded?

>>54890820
>Mediocre bait or retarded?
Probably both.

>>54890819
>implying your friends don't already play modern and have amazing decks you'll never beat

>>54890855
This stops you playing limited with them how exactly?

If they only want to play standard then why would you try to play a a game non competitively with friends that play it competitively?

>>54889088
I play 40k because it lets me get closer to unsupervised twelve year olds in confined spaces without it seeming weird, sometimes I can get close enough to smell their hair

>>54890887
Pokemon would be vastly more successful in that regard

File: 1502121496943.gif (980KB, 227x221px) Image search: [Google]

980KB, 227x221px

>>54890882
I don't try to. And they get pissy, and I look for new friends.

>>54890915
I dont think ive even seen a person in the flesh that actually plays pokemon, only on youtube, also asians dont do it for me

>>54890950
Sounds like they just want an excuse to not be friends with you.

File: 1496353936706.png (84KB, 510x546px) Image search: [Google]

84KB, 510x546px

>>54889088
I can't say much for MTG, but 40ks popularity is understandable.

Although its models are expensive, if you compare its quality of model with similar quality products made by different companies, you'll see a much smaller gap in price than if you just look over the market as a whole.

In addition the lore of the game is well designed to allow players "structured creativity" wherein they are given the bones/scaffolding of a race, but are then allowed to take liberties and get creative within those bounds. It allows a lot of creativity whilst retaining a unique identity for all of their factions.

>>54891387
Yeah but it's still a 3 cent piece being sold for a 50,000% profit.

>>54891387
Naw, 40k is for retards. Models, story and gameplay are all wet hot garbage.

>>54891421
Many things are hyper inflated in the modern world.

>>54891446
What's an alternative that is better than 40k in all three categories?
I don't know if you're baiting or not, but if you aren't I'm sincerely interested.

>>54891421
I'm not defending GW prices but this plastic cost argument is idiotic. Mold costs are in the five figure range. Not counting the workload and other equipment.

>>54889088
People play what they like and for some 40K is not expensive. Or it is as expensive as it should be to keep poorfags like yourself of the hobby.

Instead of moaning on the internet just go and find a better job. If you criticize something and not prize something that you like it means that you are a butthurt moron that just can't deal with life.

>>54891421
Let us say you have a thing that costs $10 each to make.
Let us say that when you price it at $200 each, they sell slowly.
Let us say that when you price it at $20 each, they sell slightly less slowly.

To stay in business, the models need to be sold to not only cover their own costs, but also other costs like maintainance (janitorial and mechanical), market research, advertising, site upkeep, and employee paychecks.
What's more, tabletop wargaming is a niche hobby. Selling more of a thing isn't an option when not many people care about your product. So GW goes another route: an inexpensive product sold at a high price.
Who cares if they don't sell as much? They weren't selling that much to begin with. Only now, they're making more profit.
I do think a few heigher-up people could stand a pay-cut, though.

>>54891687
I don't know much of the lore, I'll take lack of complaints as a good sign, but Malifaux is pretty good. It's weird and the designs are polarizing but actually technical quality are pretty good, minus few hiccups.

>>54892155
No, steampunk and malifaux are shit and they leave no room to be creative

>>54889539
This.

t.paraglider

File: 1492726235886.jpg (67KB, 528x604px) Image search: [Google]

67KB, 528x604px

>>54892475
>no room to be creative
This matters why? No one cares about your sonic oc donut steel

>>54892475
>Make your dudes
>Use fitting rules
Wow, that was hard

>>54891421
Let's be real, even the cheapest plastic crack provider sells characters - or comparable sprues - between 5 and 10$.

GW is overpriced but by large they still are within reasonable limits.

>>54890819
>"Lol just play casual kitchen table"
The only way players can enjoy casual magic is if they're all victim to the Dunning-Krueger effect. The second one person learns how to play the game your whole groups dynamic is ruined by his "unfair" decks.

>>54889269
One of the best baits if read in a while. You literally threw it all out at once. Good job.

>>54891421
Do you not understand how things are made or what?

>>54891817
Direct, operating costs to produce a spess marine aren't as low as you might think. The molds and injection machines they use cost a shit load and do wear out.

I wouldn't be surprised if the tooling alone for a new model runs six figures.

>OP makes a post criticizing the cost of a game, specifically comparing it to other games on it's category
>Dozens of retards desperately strawman and compare said game to things outside of it's category in order to justify the prices

The eternal state of this board

>>54893097
just because your playgroup is a bunch scrubs doesn't mean everyone else's is

>>54893097
play draft

>>54893410
Calling out an unsubstantiated argument is not strawmanning.

>>54889088
>playing constructed mtg
>not drafting

lmao

>>54893410
the Netrunner core set costs $40
pokemon starter decks costs $12
Yugioh starter decks cost $10-$15
MtG starter decks cost $10-15

Netrunner booster packs cost $8-$12 and include 40-60 cards
pokemon booster packs cost $1-$5 and contain 10 cards
Yugioh booster packs cost $2-$5 and contain 5 cards
MtG booster packs cost $4-$5 and contain 15 cards

Buying the complete Netrunner sets runs around $500-$700 depending on if you buy in bulk or used singles
top tier pokemon decks cost $100-$300
Yugioh top tier decks cost $500-$700
top tier standard decks in MtG run around $100-$300
top tier modern decks can range from $100-$600 with some outliers in the $700-$1500 range

where the fuck is the strawman?

>>54889309
When I was working at wal mart I had this rather good looking guy come up to me and ask me to let him know when our next shipment magic the gathering cards come in. Said he had shoe boxes of the stuff under his bed because he liked playing in tournaments. Big guy too, looked like he went tot the gym alot.

>>54889269
>Yugioh
>LCGs
>Vanguard

LMAOOO Good luck actually finding people to play those dead games with

>>54889732
Would you rather spend your money on starbucks or plastic crack?

>>54893647

>top tier modern decks can range from $100

Even "budget" decks like 8whack and mono green stompy are way over 100$.

>>54889088
>They are WAY too expensive for what they are
Not really.

A 40k army costs several hundred dollars, but if you care at all about the modelling and painting side of the hobby, you're getting hundreds of hours of hobby time building and painting that army. And after you're done with that, you've got infinite replayability. And if you ever get tired of your army, you can sell it on eBay and recoup much of the cost.

Compare that to vidya, where you spend $50 on a new game on Steam with maybe a 10-hour long set of story missions, and multiplayer that loses server support after a couple years and has no resale opportunity.

Hour for hour, there aren't many hobbies cheaper than 40k other than purely pen-and-paper RPGs.

File: duals.jpg (1MB, 2000x1500px) Image search: [Google]

1MB, 2000x1500px

>>54889088
I play mtg because it's fun and I'm not poor.

Just buy tabletop simulator on steam and pirate the codexes, and boom, 40k is free to play

>>54889539
This
>bladesmith

>>54889535
Fuck you Ryan

>>54893097
Duel Decks, Drafting and Cube should do the work for you.

>>54889732

If minis only cost mere cents to make then why not make your own?

Or start up a business that makes them for $0.50 each?

Sounds like you would make a killing!

Might take awhile to pay back the cost of the sculpting though. and the cost of making the mold. and the cost of the casting gubbins. and all the other costs that go into making a mini.

but hay what do i know.

>>54890077

>Song of Blades and Heroes

Have not seen a single box for this in any game store i have been to within 100 miles of my house.

>Kings of War

Maybe when the sculpts get better (pic related)

>Of Gods and Mortals
>DBA/HoTT

Nothing within 75 miles

>Nearly any historic wargame

There are like 4 or 5 old guys that play a civil war game.

and like 6 that play flames of war. but when i tried to get in on flames of war i was told to strip the paint off my americans because i used the wrong shade of kakie and green.

>Frostgrave

did a demo of it while on vacation one time. have seen nothing for it around me.

40k on the other hand has a playerbase of 20 to 30 in my city. 18 within a 20 min drive and another 20 in my hometown (30 min drive but i visit once a week or more).

File: ironwatch_regiment.jpg (33KB, 368x368px) Image search: [Google]

33KB, 368x368px

>>54895557
>(pic related)

>>54889853
Nigga you're complaining about the /tg/ equivalent of people drinking Coke instead of a cheaper brand of soda. You're poor, end of story. Any money you "saved" is negligible compared to simply putting in an hour of overtime or making a real investment on the stock market.

>people think $500 on a 40k army is expensive

try having an actual hobby and see how much it is

Not everyone is content in playing FTP videogames as their primary source of entertainment

Last year I spent $22,000 on a crate engine

/tg/ hobbies are some of the cheapest you can have

>>54889088
As a game alone you're correct. Warhammer 40k is absurdly expensive. As a hobby it's still pricey but more reasonable to me. I have a lot of fun spending days or weeks painting and basing my models. The fact that I can take them out and play is only part of the appeal.

>>54889088
>>54889106
>>54889269
>>54889088

A nice opening salvo.

Why don't mods delete blatant bait threads.

>>54895487
Don't forget all the art for the models as well, or designing the logo you're going to use, as well as figuring packing materials and the printing on that packing material.

All of it, mere pennies!

>>54889269
>Why would you drive a car when a skateboard costs so much less?

Seems most people who argue that warhammer is expensive don't like the painting aspect and merely look at as a game. The models are arguable better than most and painting them is enjoyable. Most of the time spent in the hobby is painting and modeling (at least for me) so if you don't like painting its retarded to bash it solely based on opinions. And its not really that expensive for what it is. If you look at it as "barr plastics things that you have to build yourself" well you're looking st it wrong. That's like saying i hate legos becuase i hate using building blocks therefore legos are stupid. And legos cost more than warhammer for what it is.

File: B68K38_2214963b.jpg (53KB, 620x387px) Image search: [Google]

53KB, 620x387px

>>54889891
This. I've been gaming online since I was 10 and nearly played every major mmo that has come out.

Nothing even comes close to how shitty the community of LoL is. EVE where new players are hunted and told "there is nothing for you here, uninstall" is still not as bad as LoL.

The only people recommending league to others are autist who don't see screaming at teammates every game as a bad thing.

>>54893097
My friend got two of us into magic recently. He knows how to build decks so we made it even by playing three man games and you target player when attacking is determined by flipping a coin.

We have not had any salt doing it this way, even though he still wins most of the time.

File: image.png (9KB, 500x501px) Image search: [Google]

9KB, 500x501px

>>54889269

>>54889269
Yugioh, Vangaurd, Dragonball & Pokemon Online are fucking trash. For weebs.

>>54899776
You are a fucking retard.

Play LoL with your freinds. Everything else is a joke. Stop being a serious faggot & either carry or shut the fuck up.

File: download.jpg (8KB, 270x187px) Image search: [Google]

8KB, 270x187px

>>54900474
Haha! Priceless example of my exact point.

>>54889371
I once did a comparison between the number of cards that exist in Hearthstone and Magic that contain the word, "random." Magic barely beat Hearthstone, and Magic was released the year I was born. Hearthstone has been out for less than 5 years.

File: 1502707085594.jpg (107KB, 657x548px) Image search: [Google]

107KB, 657x548px

>>54889088

>>54889088
I play mtg because I'm a social outcast with no friends, and it's a good way to meet new people a few times a year. I just go to the occasional prerelease, make sure I have a couple commander decks tuned and ready to go, and am always more than happy to shitbrew whatever people happen to be playing.

Is it expensive? I mean I've probably spent $2k over 5 years in the hobby, and now I have about $8k worth of cards kicking around. It's nowhere near as expensive as when I played basketball consistently. Buying a new pair of $200 kicks every year and a backup pair for $100, then hotels and travel and meals was way fucking more, not even including sports supplements and the time practicing/at the gym just to play the sport.

>>54900474
>hey anon, you should play this silly terrible game
>"but it's silly and terrible"
>fucking fag, stop taking things so seriously, you should just play your friends fagbog. Learn to have fun you tard.

>>54895031
based chinaman!

Why? Because my girlfriend is a professional dominatrix and we have money coming out our asses.

Stop being poor.

>its a cryptocurrency
Are you retarded? Just because something has value is USD doesnt mean its a fucking cryptocurrency you retard

Gentlemen, I bring you...

Pauper.

>>54899776
I have about 2.8k hours on league and the community is very average among online games. Take your average MMO communities and force them to play on teams for stakes and they behave in exactly the same way.

If how you describe EVE is how it is then EVE is actually much, much worse. That sounds hideously awful.

People who play these things tend to have a lot of disposable income because they lack family or romantic interests to spend their money.

Or they 're children and their parents will pay for it.

File: cockatrice_logo.png (25KB, 256x256px) Image search: [Google]

25KB, 256x256px

>>54889088

I play M:tG on Cockatrice online for free. It's pretty cool.

>>54889700
My whole family does that shit and my brother's got a part time job on the side just to pay for it. You people are insane.

File: 17269990_796930047127067_1275105977_o.jpg (87KB, 1280x960px) Image search: [Google]

87KB, 1280x960px

>>54889891
As a player, can confirm you are correct.