Paizo Games General /pgg/ (also /pfg/)

>>54872204
As a ragebred wouldn't you have problems with Bloodrager (Cha caster)?

I just want to geek a mage from 80 feet with my trusty rifle.

>>54870778
>>54870890
Couldn't you possibly make it work with some combination of Order of the Penitent Cavlier and Tetori Monk?

GIVE ME A LEAK OF THE FIRST STARFINDER AP!

Also where are you getting your minis for SF?

currently recruiting games are:
https://app.roll20.net/lfg/listing/85043/bones-and-bed-shackles (ends in one week...if it is real) - lewd AP
https://app.roll20.net/lfg/listing/85418/mint-rebels-double-treason (ends in two weeks) - rationalist spin on Hell's Rebels AP
https://app.roll20.net/lfg/listing/84677/godslayers (ends in one month and a half) - kill gods, be mythic

More and more apps are being submitted each day, anon. Don't miss the deadline! Finish your app today!

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>>54872121
Not only that, then you have to deal with other requirements

How do you hold a Concert for Giants or Tiny Folk?
What is more proper when dealing with adverse atmospheres, body suits or face masks?
Can you imagine the paperwork for playing at an Eox venue?

Does anyone have a pdf for Blood of the Sea?

>>54872445
Giants don't real in Starfinder, at most you might get an aggregate intelligence from one of those gas giants (the jellyfish who live there tend to combine like Voltron when threatened) but they shouldn't be an issue you build around.

Unless we meet those fish-people who supposedly dominate the social scene!

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>>54872508
Wait, there are giant fish people?

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>friend wants to DM PF
>decide on an alchemist because why not
>have friend make my character sheet
>emails me the character and tells me I need to buy a mule or something to carry all my stuff since I am near max carry load
>look up all my individual gear and weigh it myself and it puts me in barely medium load
>confront friend about this oversight
>tells me that in PF things weigh much less than he thinks it should so he altered the weight to his liking

Well that's one game I'm not playing but seriously is PF designed specifically for sadist/masochist?

>>54872372
Does anybody even have that? I haven't heard anything to indicate it's up yet.

>>54872445
I wanna play a Drow idol!

>>54872635
Some DM's are retards. Shit happens.

>>54872635
Most of the measurements for things in PF are based off of real world measurements, at least when it comes to things like weight. What, did he think that 3 lbs was too light for a sword?

>>54872635
>an alchemist sheet
>that's at medium load

What, did the hoe give you a pussy bomber instead of a stronk Vivesectionist? Also that gm sounds like a faggot, and his chargen proficiency must be garbage.

>>54872691
Most weapons in PF actually weigh MUCH more than their real life counterparts.

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So how will you deal with the fact that only reasonable way to play Starfinder is the adventure path?

>>54872635
It's for a few different kinds of people. First and foremost, it's for people who started playing 3.5 and never wanted to stop. These people don't see the complexity in Pathfinder's rules because they've become second nature through 15+ years of practice. This means that they need some kind of complexity they CAN sense to stimulate their minds and their need for strategic choices they haven't already "solved." As a result, Pathfinder has built up even more cruft and splat material than 3.5 ever had, and only new players can even notice.

To make matters worse, Paizo originally had a more-is-more philosophy when rebalancing 3.5 into Pathfinder in the first place. Fighters are weaker than wizards? No problem, we'll just add more features to fighters. Oh, and we'll also add more features to wizards because it seems unfair if they don't get something, too.

>>54872691
Basically certain items like armor, sling, and bullets were 2 to 2.5 times their weight. Also made it that as a dwarf you still suffered reduced movement speed because otherwise the dwarf is a packmule that is too OP

>>54872697
>What, did the hoe give you a pussy bomber instead of a stronk Vivesectionist?
I went grenadier I don't like being a minmaxing tryhard as having flaws is fun

>>54872769
Your GM is retarded but you honestly don't sound much better.

>>54872814
Yeah you're right I'll play games better than 3.51

>>54872769
>I went grenadier I don't like being a minmaxing tryhard as having flaws is fun
>he says as a grenadier, the most basic bitch minmaxy archetype for bombers
>also implying that vivesectionists don't have glaring flaws
Well if that wasn't the most faggot bullshit I ever saw. If you didn't want to be a gamebreaker on damage just pick up a real weapon instead of going natural attacks you pussy.

>>54872814
And you sound like cancer. You can feel free to fuck off whenever.

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>>54872837
>why play a shitty fighter when you can play a shitty rogue
And people actually enjoy this

>>54872834
Okay.

>>54872899
Except both archetypes are incredibly good fighter and rogue replacements. Shit the alchemist class in general is pretty well designed.

Why isn't there more mundane items for Starfinder than just two pages?

>>54872927
Because it is core rulebook and it cannot spare many pages for minor things

>>54872899
>a shitty Rogue
>when the alchemist is superior to rogue in every way, even when unchained
>implying even post AAT/AWT fighter is safe from being a dumpster fire of a class

I don't have a smug enough anime girl or a good enough bait fish for the sheer volume of idiocy I'm witnessing.

>>54872957
>instead of going full rogue and getting all the benefits I will take this archetype to get 1 rogue feature

Its shit you mong.

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>>54872594
Fish people? Yes. Giant? Not really.

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>>54873021
Also here's the information on BIG STUPID JELLYFISH.

>>54872927
Same reason we didn't get to see a lot of mundane items in the Pathfinder CRB, because that stuff's going to get trickling in over the next year.

>>54872691
>are based off of real world measurements
A fucking katana weights 6 lb, 6 motherfuckig lbs, you know how much weights a katana in real life? less than 2lb. Weights from PF come from 3.5, and weights in 3.5 are shit and usually double of what it's irl

>>54872991
Ok No, you don't get trapfinding, whatever will you do without such a valuable class feature worth so much more than your self-buffing and enormous array of other abilities?
Just be a Slayer if all you want is SA Anand trapfinding, fag

>>54872991
Rogue doesn't have any benefits you fucking retard.

Being an alchemist nets you
>Mutagens(free self buff, AC boost, stat boost)
>natural attacks which synergize with your sneak attack much more than weapon attacks because you aren't wasting feats on the shitty TWF tree
>Extracts(6th level spell casting essentially which includes stuff like invisibility, which means more sneak attacks)
>Discoveries which are functionally rogue talents except many of them are actually useful
>being intelligence based means you'll have slightness skill points than a fucking rogue(1 to 2 points difference with a +3 int modifer)

Compared to rogue which gets you.
>trapfinding(near worhless bonus to perception)
>evasion(something that can be acquired
or fucking BUILT as a magic item)
>uncanny dodge

>>54872769
>Grenadier
>not minmaxing tryhard
Does not compute
Do you mean you didn't want to think? that you want to go autowin mode and massbutton with no thought process behind? in that case, yes, you didn't "minmax" you went autowin mode, congrats

>>54872899
>Rogue+++++ with spells that puts him in Tier2-3
>Shitty
What the actual fuck? Vivisectionist is like billion times better than rogue, and fighter, together. Arguably better than barb too.

>>54873124
Different anon here, What's so great about grenadier. I played one and it was honestly really underwhelming.

>>54873086
Just pick the trait that gives you trapfinding (and magic traps) bro, that, you killed the rogue completely.

>>54873096
>>54873124
>>54873139
So is it this easy to bait in 3.finders or did I just get lucky?

>>54873162
>I was just pretending to be retarded!

what is YOUR reason for not listening to post-kepler astrojazz over regressive skumpa-beats?

>>54873158
>Just pick the trait that gives you trapfinding (and magic traps) bro,
That's a campaign trait no sane GM will let you have outside of the AP it's featured in.

That's like saying just take "Finding your kin bro!"

>>54873146
>whats so great
You don't even roll to hit (well, you do, but is touch AC), you create areas of fuck you both with damage, impairing effects, etc while ignoring your friendos.

Grenadier is one of the best CC classes around. I had one with the ability of pop two bombs per turn, while also flying over them, good lord

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>>54873167
Guess I'm going to assume its just that easy then.

>>54873180
>He doesn't listen to Vercite ether-ballads or Aballonian Euphonics

What are you, an Akitonian?

>>54873162
When there's no mechanics discussion for dozens of threads, just circlejerks about waifus, biting hard on the bait ends up really attractive for non-lewdfags as a way to cope with the crushing despair of their situation.

Taking the bait is more engaging than the average thread topic, because then you get to go back and break things down.

>>54873193
>tfw I have Trap Finder and I'm not playing that campaign
Jealous, bro?

>>54873215
>only 17 layers of sound
get out of my face man

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OH BABY

>>54872749
>Pathfinder has built up even more cruft and splat material than 3.5 ever had
In some places, yes, but I don't think that's the case for the most part -- unless we're counting all the softcover setting and player companion pieces.

3.5 had an absolutely gigantic library, even without counting the Eberron and Forgotten Realms stuff. 3.5 had slightly more classes than Pathfinder does, even if we exclude stuff that only appeared in the Miniatures Handbook (the healer and marshal) and include Pathfinder's variant classes (ninja, samurai, and antipaladin). There might be more archetypes in Pathfinder than there were prestige classes in 3.5, but I sure as fuck don't want to count either of them.

The worst of Pathfinder's bloat, at least compared with 3.5, is limited to three areas: bestiaries, published adventures, and setting material. There are so many redundant monsters, and I'd hate to imagine how many marathon game sessions it would take to play through all of the adventure paths.

Now, it's worth noting, Pathfinder's publication life has already been longer than 3.5's. Wizards of the Coast launched 3.5 in 2003 and stopped producing new content for it with the launch of 4th Edition in 2008 (and had no real content for 3.5 for several months before that). Paizo launched Pathfinder in 2009.

>>54873197
>, but is touch AC
This isn't really a big plus. People really underestimate how high this shit climbs for a 3/4ths bab class that an't augment their attacks with magic items.
>ou both with damage, impairing effects
Bomb damage isn't spectacular unless you blow it all in two encounters.

Effects are fair, but why not be any other caster?

>>54873285
>touch AC
>Climbs
average touch AC of a CR 1 monster is 12
average touch AC of a CR 20 monster is 12

>>54873285
Early level touch AC is annoying to deal with. After level about 5th, bad players/GMs will have an aneurysm over mystic fucking bolts because a guy using rapid shot + TWF landed all his iteratives at 9th level, despite doing fuckall damage.

>>54873302
That's more because of the handful of monsters with touch AC's in the double digits dragging the average down. Maybe my DM just fucking inflates touch AC or uses monster that have high touch.

>>54873285
As a magus with accurate strike, I tell you you're full of shit, spending 2 arcane points to target touch AC is the best thing ever

>>54873341
*single digits
Obviously, sorry.

>>54873341
While I don't have a whole lot of experience leafing through APs, as far as I can tell touch AC typically lags super far behind, and AP-tier encounters are far more likely to be the norm for games. That (and PFS) is where Paizo comes at balance from, hence why Gunslinger OF ALL FUCKING CLASSES kept getting nerfed.

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As I see it, the main issue with monster skill math in Starfinder lies in two points:

Across the skill chapter, various DCs have a base DC equal to 15 + 1.5 times the target's CR. This includes the base for Acrobatics DCs, Bluff DCs to feint, Diplomacy DCs, and Intimidate DCs. These are just the *base* DCs, and they can already be daunting.

As per page 326 of the core rulebook, a monster's "good skill" modifiers equal 4 + 1.5 times the monster's CR, and their "master skill" modifiers are equal to 9 + 1.5 times the monster's CR.
• The CR 20 space goblin monark in the core rulebook lines up with this. It has three good skills at +34 and a master skill at +39.
• Most monsters in First Contact with a CR of 1 or above line up with this. CR 1 space pirate crew members have good skills at +6 and master skills at +11. CR 2 contemplatives have good at +7 and master at +12. CR 3 haan have good at +8 and master at +13. CR 4 ksariks and security robots have good skills at +10 and master skills at +15. CR 6 orocorans have good at +13 and master at +18. CR 7 bloodbrothers have good at +14. CR 9 ellicoths have good at +17 and master at +22. CR 13 necrovites have good at +23 and master at +28. The two exceptions are the CR 4 space pirate captain and the CR 5 sarcesian, which have good and master modifiers 1 higher than they should have.
• As we can see from the space goblin monark and the First Contact monsters, Perception is almost always a good or master skill.

PCs start off on good footing against monsters, but the scaling of 1.5 times CR will rapidly screw over PCs. Monster skill modifiers and DCs are daunting by 8th level, and even an operative will have difficulty keeping up past that point. Let us have a look at what PCs have to deal with at CR 8 and above:

• CR 8: Base Acrobatics DC 27, base Diplomacy/Intimidate DC 27 (31 if Diplomacy/Intimidate is a master skill), good skill +16, master skill +21

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>>54873422

• CR 9: Base Acrobatics DC 28, base Diplomacy/Intimidate DC 28 (22 if Diplomacy/Intimidate is a master skill), good skill +17, master skill +22

• CR 10: Base Acrobatics DC 30, base Diplomacy/Intimidate DC 30 (34 if Diplomacy/Intimidate is a master skill), good skill +19, master skill +24

• CR 11: Base Acrobatics DC 31, base Diplomacy/Intimidate DC 31 (35 if Diplomacy/Intimidate is a master skill), good skill +20, master skill +25

• CR 12: Base Acrobatics DC 33, base Diplomacy/Intimidate DC 33 (37 if Diplomacy/Intimidate is a master skill), good skill +22, master skill +27

• CR 13: Base Acrobatics DC 34, base Diplomacy/Intimidate DC 34 (38 if Diplomacy/Intimidate is a master skill), good skill +23, master skill +28

• CR 14: Base Acrobatics DC 36, base Diplomacy/Intimidate DC 36 (40 if Diplomacy/Intimidate is a master skill), good skill +25, master skill +30

• CR 15: Base Acrobatics DC 37, base Diplomacy/Intimidate DC 37 (41 if Diplomacy/Intimidate is a master skill), good skill +26, master skill +31

• CR 16: Base Acrobatics DC 39, base Diplomacy/Intimidate DC 39 (43 if Diplomacy/Intimidate is a master skill), good skill +28, master skill +33

• CR 17: Base Acrobatics DC 40, base Diplomacy/Intimidate DC 40 (44 if Diplomacy/Intimidate is a master skill), good skill +29, master skill +34

• CR 18: Base Acrobatics DC 42, base Diplomacy/Intimidate DC 42 (46 if Diplomacy/Intimidate is a master skill), good skill +31, master skill +36

• CR 19: Base Acrobatics DC 43, base Diplomacy/Intimidate DC 43 (47 if Diplomacy/Intimidate is a master skill), good skill +32, master skill +37

• CR 20: Base Acrobatics DC 45, base Diplomacy/Intimidate DC 45 (49 if Diplomacy/Intimidate is a master skill), good skill +34, master skill +39

How are these numbers supposed to be reasonable considering the lack of easy skill bonuses in Starfinder?

>>54873341
Highest touch AC in the game is 41 and a CR 28 monster has it. Highest touch AC at CR 1 is 18, and increases (curiously) 1 point at each CR, the lowest is not very low. Yet the average is 12. What does this tell us? that there're more monsters with low touch AC than monsters with high AC, so targeting touch AC will be easier on average.

>>54873283
Each Pathfinder character has way more moving parts when you take into account traits, variant classes, and class-specific modular bits. Each class is usually designed to have at least one kind of special modular bit, sometimes two, and that's not even counting spells.

Giantlayer campaign when?

>>54873594
I'd argue Pathfinder has less bullshit, but that's more because the bullshit seems to be the biggest thing people remember from 3.5e. There was just SO MUCH abusable stuff (old polymorphs, innumerable PrCs) mixed in with the cool shit (Int based monks, warlocks, changelings, rangers not being boring shit).

>>54873252

There's going to be facestealers in among the stars, mark my words.

>>54873594
Not him, but 3.5 also had traits (different name, don't remember it), variant classes, etc.

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>>54873656
"Going to," anon?

>>54873610
Macrophage plz run a Macross canpaign

>>54873701

Oh, shit, I forgot about these guys. They're better at infiltrating than I thought.

>>54873433
>How are these numbers supposed to be reasonable considering the lack of easy skill bonuses in Starfinder?

Seems pretty reasonable.
Lvl 20 Envoy:
20 Ranks, +4 for 18 Cha, +2d8+4 expertise (+13avg), do class skills still give a +3 bonus like Pathfinder? if so add that in.

+37-40 without any helpful magic/tech items, skill focus feats, spells, or aid another bonuses.

>>54873802
And anyone not a skill monkey can go fuck themselves?

>>54873283
>I'd hate to imagine how many marathon game sessions it would take to play through all of the adventure paths.
Isn't "too much available content to play" the best possible problem to have? None of the APs are bad.

>>54873841
Envoy is worse at being a skill monkey than half the other classes.

>>54873879
Envoy memeing is reaching new heights it seems

>>54873879
Not really, in a limited selection of skills, envoy is better.

LIMITED selection.

>>54873866
>none of the APs are bad
I'm sorry, what? Did people like Council of Thieves?

>>54873197
But... Grenadier is barely bomb-focused. Really the only bomb ability it gets is Directed Blast, and Staggering Blast requires you to crit with a 20/x2 weapon (which STILL allows for a fort save). It's better for melee combat if anything.

>>54873992
The thing is you trade useless shit for a discovery you want anyway (precise bombs) on top of a bunch of bonus shit like a potential backup weapon (usually longbow). It's a straight upgrade for bombers.

Hylax, Iomedae, Sarenrae, Yaraesa, Desna, Pharasma, Triune, Besmara, Lao Shu Po, Urgathoa are female goddesses.

Weydan, Abadar, Eloritu, Oras, Damaritosh, Zon-Kuthon, The Devourer and Nyarlathotep are male gods.

Ibra and arguably Nyaralothep are gender neutral.

>5/6 of the GOOD deities are female, with the sole exception being Weydan, a deity noted for being genderfluid.
>4/8 of the NEUTRAL deities are female, 3/8 of them are male, and Ibra is gender neutral.
>2/6 of the EVIL deities are female, being Lao Shu Po and Urgathoa. 4/6 (or 3/6, depending on your perception of Nyaralothep) are male

As for L/N/C?
>Both LG deities are female, LN is divided 50/50, and both LE are male
>Both NG deities are female, N is 2 female, 1 neutral and 1 male, and both NE are female
>CG is divided 50/50, CN is divided 50/50, and CE is either male or 50 male/50 neutral

>>54873866
Name one AP that isn't absolute shit at least in some parts.

>>54874027
Sounds about right. Women are just cuter than men.

>>54873964
The second module is excellent and the rest is mediocre at worst.

>>54874052
Wrath of the Righteous

>>54873691
Not nearly as many. And most 3.5 classes didn't have that style of class where every other level you choose a modular ability off of a list specially made for that class, in the vein of magus arcana or alchemist discoveries. 3.5 rogues only had tricks at high levels, and some later 3,5 classes like the warlock experimented with that model, but in Pathfinder it's the rule. Class X gives you a new X Doodle every even-numbered level, and every single book printed after class X comes out has a dozen new X Doodles in it, so when it's time to pick an X Doodle you have to sort through a pile of books and figure out where the doodles are in each one.

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>>54874027
>depending on your perception of Nyaralothep
Can confirm, I'm fairly sure both Nyarlathotep and Shub'Niggurath are female

>>54874021
I guess? I always just preferred taking Mindchemist and getting that sweet double Int to damage from Targeted Bomb Admixture. Even better if the DM allows Kirin Strike to stack with it.

>>54873964
It is not that bad
It has nice comfy feel to it

>>54874091
Real talk...

Would your character let their daughter leave the house dressed like that?

>>54874117
Absolutely not, just because my wife dresses like a whore does not mean my daughter will.

>>54874117
Only if she could pull it off. If she hasn't the figure for such things, it can't be helped.

>>54874077
Besides Mythic being Mythic, Iomedae being an absolute cunt for literally no reason, and token trans NPCs being shit, there are other issues.

>>54874117
No. Weather and illness are a serious concern, and she would surely come down with something with little to no covering. That's also not appropriate dress according to most societies in which she would settle, so dressing like that wouldn't be acceptable.

>>54873841
>And anyone not a skill monkey can go fuck themselves?

Well, yes? It's a skill monkey for a reason, you know. Envoy is the Investigator/Bard of Starfinder, why are you surprised that it does really well at Face Skills? Touhou anon was literally posting and moaning about Diplomacy and Intimidate, the Envoy's forte. Yeah, I expect the Envoy to handle that sort of thing, not the Soldier who dumped Charisma.

Maybe, just MAYBE Starfinder won't be a One-Class-Trumps-All situation, and a party of different classes will have to work together to cover their individual weaknesses.

>>54874027
NOT SO FAST! This information is incomplete! The CRB also notes the existence of other gods besides those ones! You forgot

>Angarado, LG male
>Arshea, NG genderfluid
>Black Butterfly, CG female
>Eldest, N varies
>Calistria, CN female
>Groetus, CN Male
>Asmodeus, LE male
>Lissala, LE female
>Lamashtu, CE female

This adds NINE more deities, including 3 more males and 4 more females and 2 more "other."

>>54874148
>token trans NPCs being shit
As far as I'm aware there's only one and she stops being relevant in any real capacity past the first goddamn book.

>>54874027
>deity noted for being genderfluid
so when will people get butthurt over this

>>54874233
I'm pretty butthurt over this.

>>54874233

Aren't a lot of gods known for appearing to mortals in a variety of shapes and forms?

>>54874258
Not really, you might get Desna appearing as an Elven butterfly woman or a stately human maid astride an elk, but she's still a she. Deities that assume other genders are noted in their entries as assuming other genders, like Weydan and Arshea.

>>54874081
>but in Pathfinder it's the rule
Monks had to wait years for that

>>54874311

But there is precedent of gods appearing as different genders, yes?

>>54874369
The ones explicitly noted as appearing in different genders, yes. You aren't going to be seeing Iomedae portrayed as a buff McMan, or Zon-Kuthon as a woman.

>>54874369
In mythology, yes.

>>54874191
>Yeah, I expect the Envoy to handle that sort of thing, not the Soldier who dumped Charisma.

It's not that, it's that the envoy who does it has a 25% chance of failure, and everyone else who invests seriously into it has a 50%+ chance of failure.

It's not "one-class-trumps-all", it's "no-one but one class can actually hope to succeed, and that class can't do it reliably".

>When remembering about the last session's combat you realize that if you were less cautious you could, 85% sure, have saved the PC who died

>>54873888
>LIMITED selection

Sense Motive, Bluff, Diplomacy, Intimidate, Disguise, Culture
Engineering, Computers, Medicine.
>Additionally gets Stealth, Perception, Piloting as Class Skills.

Mechanic will be better at the tech skills, Operative will be better at the stealthy skills, but Envoy can stretch and do them just fine. And hey, if you've got an Operative and Mechanic in the party? Fine, let them do that and use Aid Another to make them even better at it!

I really don't get this whole combative and competitive "Envoy sucks!" meme that has been going on since day one.

>Unavoidable and "impossible" to flee 20 goblins and the gobling leader encounter for a group of four 4th level chars
>Goblins were acceptable
>Goblin leader fell after us dealing 200+ damage to it. The fucker could AoO your lay of hands on yourse, could attack at 15ft with a tiny scimitar and other bullshit like casting invisibility without provoking
I'm out of this group, GM is a bullshiter

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>>54874432

>>54874488
>try to google "goblin king"
>Bowie, Bowie everywhere

>>54874407

>Aren't going to see Zon-Kuthon as a woman

Why not? He's already a little bitch.

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>>54874543

>Anon.
>Don't defy me.

>>54874587
Is Contact Juggling a Profession or Perform?

is there a "one true mystic" build yet? overlord is the best right?

>>54874646
Sleight of Hand can be used as a performance

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>>54874646

Sorry, anon, racial at-will only.

>>54872269
Does half elf multidisciplined work with alchemist? They are sort of casters. I've been told it works for the bifurcated magic trait.

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Here is a disturbing discovery: it seems that Starfinder's skill DCs against monsters were tailored to be consistently competitive with an *operative using their primary or secondary ability scores*. Operative's edge is +3 at 7th level, +4 at 11th level, +5 at 15th level, and +6 at 19th level, so obviously, operatives' skills with their primary or secondary ability scores scale well.

At 8th level and above, if you are an operative using their primary or secondary ability score for a skill check against a monster, then great! You can handle those skill checks... somewhat fine.

Outside of operatives using their primary or ability scores for a skill check (or an envoy using expertise skills), however, things are bleak against monsters at 8th level and above. If you are a soldier, going up against monsters with Intelligence-, Wisdom-, or Charisma-based skill checks, you will probably fail.

Here is my proof: a halfling (+2 Dexterity, +2 Charisma) operative focusing on Dexterity and Charisma, with a +2 racial bonus to Stealth on top of that.

Bear in mind that if you need only roll a 10+, a take 10 can solve the problem for you. Also bear in mind that base DCs are, obviously, only the base DCs.

8th-level halfling operative, Dex 19 (upgraded 23) and Cha 18 (upgraded 20), edge +3 vs. CR 8:
• Bluff: +19 vs. good DC 26 (need to roll 7 or higher) or master DC 31 (need to roll 12 or higher); this is only the base DC
• Diplomacy/Intimidate: +19 vs. regular DC 27 (need to roll 8 or higher) or master DC 31 (need to roll 13 or higher); this is only the base DC
• Stealth: +22 with racial vs. good Perception +16 (Stealth only 6 higher) or master Perception +21 (Stealth only 1 higher)

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>>54874752

9th-level halfling operative, Dex 19 (upgraded 23) and Cha 18 (upgraded 20), edge +3 vs. CR 9:
• Bluff: +20 vs. good DC 27 (need to roll 7 or higher) or master DC 32 (need to roll 12 or higher); this is only the base DC
• Diplomacy/Intimidate: +20 vs. regular DC 28 (need to roll 8 or higher) or master DC 32 (need to roll 13 or higher); this is only the base DC
• Stealth: +23 with racial vs. good Perception +17 (Stealth only 6 higher) or master Perception +22 (Stealth only 1 higher)

10th-level halfling operative, Dex 20 (upgraded 24) and Cha 19 (upgraded 21), edge +3 vs. CR 10:
• Bluff: +21 vs. good DC 29 (need to roll 8 or higher) or master DC 34 (need to roll 13 or higher); this is only the base DC
• Diplomacy/Intimidate: +21 vs. regular DC 30 (need to roll 9 or higher) or master DC 34 (need to roll 14 or higher); this is only the base DC
• Stealth: +25 with racial vs. good Perception +19 (Stealth only 6 higher) or master Perception +24 (Stealth only 1 higher)

11th-level halfling operative, Dex 20 (upgraded 24) and Cha 19 (upgraded 21), edge +4 vs. CR 11:
• Bluff: +23 vs. good DC 30 (need to roll 7 or higher) or master DC 35 (need to roll 12 or higher); this is only the base DC
• Diplomacy/Intimidate +23 vs. regular DC 31 (need to roll 8 or higher) or master DC 35 (need to roll 13 or higher); this is only the base DC
• Stealth: +27 with racial vs. good Perception +20 (Stealth only 7 higher) or master Perception +25 (Stealth only 2 higher)

12th-level halfling operative, Dex 20 (upgraded 24) and Cha 19 (upgraded 21), edge +4 vs. CR 12:
• Bluff: +24 vs. good DC 32 (need to roll 8 or higher) or master DC 37 (need to roll 13 or higher); this is only the base DC
• Diplomacy/Intimidate +24 vs. regular DC 33 (need to roll 9 or higher) or master DC 37 (need to roll 14 or higher); this is only the base DC
• Stealth: +28 with racial vs. good Perception +22 (Stealth only 6 higher) or master Perception +27 (Stealth only 1 higher)

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>>54874764

13th-level halfling operative, Dex 20 (upgraded 24) and Cha 19 (upgraded 21), edge +4 vs. CR 13:
• Bluff: +25 vs. good DC 33 (need to roll 8 or higher) or master DC 38 (need to roll 13 or higher); this is only the base DC
• Diplomacy/Intimidate +25 vs. regular DC 34 (need to roll 9 or higher) or master DC 38 (need to roll 14 or higher); this is only the base DC
• Stealth: +29 with racial vs. good Perception +23 (Stealth only 6 higher) or master Perception +28 (Stealth only 1 higher)

14th-level halfling operative, Dex 20 (upgraded 26) and Cha 19 (upgraded 23), edge +4 vs. CR 14:
• Bluff: +27 vs. good DC 35 (need to roll 8 or higher) or master DC 40 (need to roll 13 or higher); this is only the base DC
• Diplomacy/Intimidate +27 vs. regular DC 36 (need to roll 9 or higher) or master DC 40 (need to roll 14 or higher); this is only the base DC
• Stealth: +31 with racial vs. good Perception +25 (Stealth only 6 higher) or master Perception +30 (Stealth only 1 higher)

15th-level halfling operative, Dex 21 (upgraded 27) and Cha 20 (upgraded 24), edge +5 vs. CR 15:
• Bluff: +30 vs. good DC 36 (need to roll 6 or higher) or master DC 41 (need to roll 11 or higher); this is only the base DC
• Diplomacy/Intimidate +30 vs. regular DC 37 (need to roll 6 or higher) or master DC 41 (need to roll 11 or higher); this is only the base DC
• Stealth: +33 with racial vs. good Perception +26 (Stealth only 7 higher) or master Perception +31 (Stealth only 2 higher)

16th-level halfling operative, Dex 21 (upgraded 27) and Cha 20 (upgraded 24), edge +5 vs. CR 16:
• Bluff: +31 vs. good DC 38 (need to roll 7 or higher) or master DC 43 (need to roll 43 or higher); this is only the base DC
• Diplomacy/Intimidate +31 vs. regular DC 39 (need to roll 8 or higher) or master DC 43 (need to roll 13 or higher); this is only the base DC
• Stealth: +34 with racial vs. good Perception +28 (Stealth only 6 higher) or master Perception +33 (Stealth only 1 higher)

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>>54874773

17th-level halfling operative, Dex 21 (upgraded 27) and Cha 20 (upgraded 24), edge +5 vs. CR 17:
• Bluff: +32 vs. good DC 39 (need to roll 7 or higher) or master DC 44 (need to roll 12 or higher); this is only the base DC
• Diplomacy/Intimidate +32 vs. regular DC 40 (need to roll 8 or higher) or master DC 44 (need to roll 13 or higher); this is only the base DC
• Stealth: +35 with racial vs. good Perception +29 (Stealth only 6 higher) or master Perception +34 (Stealth only 1 higher)

18th-level halfling operative, Dex 21 (upgraded 27) and Cha 20 (upgraded 24), edge +5 vs. CR 18:
• Bluff: +33 vs. good DC 41 (need to roll 8 or higher) or master DC 46 (need to roll 13 or higher); this is only the base DC
• Diplomacy/Intimidate +33 vs. regular DC 42 (need to roll 9 or higher) or master DC 46 (need to roll 14 or higher); this is only the base DC
• Stealth: +36 with racial vs. good Perception +31 (Stealth only 5 higher) or master Perception +36 (Stealth equal)

19th-level halfling operative, Dex 21 (upgraded 27) and Cha 20 (upgraded 24), edge +6 vs. CR 19:
• Bluff: +35 vs. good DC 42 (need to roll 7 or higher) or master DC 47 (need to roll 12 or higher); this is only the base DC
• Diplomacy/Intimidate +35 vs. regular DC 43 (need to roll 8 or higher) or master DC 47 (need to roll 13 or higher); this is only the base DC
• Stealth: +38 with racial vs. good Perception +32 (Stealth only 6 higher) or master Perception +37 (Stealth only 1 higher)

20th-level halfling operative, Dex 22 (upgraded 28) and Cha 20 (upgraded 24), edge +6 vs. CR 20:
• Bluff: +36 vs. good DC 44 (need to roll 8 or higher) or master DC 49 (need to roll 13 or higher); this is only the base DC
• Diplomacy/Intimidate +36 vs. regular DC 45 (need to roll 9 or higher) or master DC 49 (need to roll 14 or higher); this is only the base DC
• Stealth: +40 with racial vs. good Perception +34 (Stealth only 6 higher) or master Perception +39 (Stealth only 1 higher)

Be an operative.

>>54874420
It seems you're more of a glass-half-empty type, but a 75% chance of success is pretty nice with no real investment in my opinion.

Again, my example Envoy used CHA 18; by level 20 I don't know how high it'll really be with character level advancement. Furthermore, that was with 0 WBL investment or any boosts, or Skill Focus feats (another +3 and Envoy expertise lets you reroll your expertise die with a skill focus).

Dropping some money on a Personal Upgrade Mk3 will get you to CHA 24, for another +3 to that check.

Get your friend to Aid Another on your Diplomacy, you're now looking at 20 ranks, +3 class skill, +7 CHA, +2d8+4 expertise (13avg), +2 Aid Another for +45, which is enough to get rid of any sort of tension as to whether you will succeed or fail. Oh, and you can withhold your expertise die until after you see if you roll a 1 or not to choose if you want to reroll.

>>54874324
It's the rule rather than the exception. And monks did eventually get it because their way of making classes got calcified until they all fit the same model.

>>54874420
I hope that's true, actually. It's hard as shit to challenge a party who know how to optimize.

>>54874872

Well, thus far all this math seems to discount the various means of improving skill checks apart from "add more ranks, increase base ability score".

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>>54874420
>>54874820
>>54874872

The problem here, as I see it, is that Paizo appears to have balanced skill DCs against monsters around one of the best-case scenarios possible: an operative using a primary or secondary ability score.

This means that while an operative using their primary or secondary ability score is able to keep up on the treadmill, anyone with lower skill bonuses, such as a soldier, will rapidly fall off the treadmill against monsters.

>>54874901

I am including operative's edge in my calculations, as well as the halfling racial bonus to Stealth.

Generally applicable skill bonuses are difficult to come by in Starfinder, except for perhaps aid another, and even then, you cannot always count on that being possible in a given scenario.

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>Viking.
>bonuses to using shields.
>rage.
>rage powers.

I'm in love. How did I not see this before?

Also what rage powers do you recommend I should take?

>>54874993
>How did I not see this before?

Gems are often hidden under the featureless dirt, rage powers are kind of unnecessary on a fighter and I'd suggest you just work on Bonus Feats.

>>54874993
Superstitious, Beast Totem line, something for flavor or memes. I dunno, what's your poison?

>>54874993
Probably because it was in a setting sourcebook (which are often looked-over), as well as the fact that it loses both Armor and Weapon Training (which in a post-WMH/AMH world, Fighter desperately wants to keep).

>>54874945
Is that not a good thing? Monsters are supposed to be scary. And anyway, they could just be anticipating the inevitable power creep.

>Spontaneous Change (Sp): At 4th level, when entering a bloodrage, you can cast a transmutation spell that affects only you as a swift action, provided that the spell’s normal casting time is 1 round or shorter. The spell lasts for as long as you continue bloodraging, regardless of the spell’s normal duration. You can use this ability only to cast bloodrager spells you know.
Which are some good uses at that level?

>>54875159
Enlarge Person or Longarm. Play Abberant bloodline, use a reach weapon, and take Combat Reflexes.

>>54875227
>Abberant bloodline
You mean having two archetypes? because abberant only gives me
>Long Limbs (Ex): At 3rd level, your reach increases by 5 feet whenever you are making a melee touch attack. This ability does not otherwise increase your threatened area
Which don't work for weapons

>>54875227
Or cast Longarm before you bloodrage since it lasts for minutes, Enlarge into bloodrage with a reach weapon, and become capable of hitting everyone on the field with CR.

Why not being Abyssal? it gives you free enlarge person when you bloodrage

>>54875118
I was thinking a Come and Get me build, with a couple rage powers to give me DR.

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>>54874704
Jennifer Connelly had mastered the art of staring vacantly at pretty boys long before Kristen Stewart made it cool

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VppuD1St8Ec

Any new, exceptional Animal Companions in Pathfinder? Preferably fluffy ones.

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What would be the best way to build a character who wears a personal mech into battle (a la pic related) in starfinder?

>Stamina represents your luck, energy and general ability to avoid getting directly smacked in the gob
>Health represents your meatiness, your actual body and the damage it can suffer

Can someone tell me why characters still gain Health at an appreciable rate in Starfinder? Shouldn't this stuff grow at a glacial rate? Stamina should be the stuff that bloats to better represent your power as a hero and protagonist, but when that luck's run out you should be vulnerable to laser pistols.

>>54875553
Power armor. Armor Storm/Guard Soldier. Other than that, I don't think we have anything that works, really.

>>54875558
It grows a lot slower than Stamina, given stamina can actually be affected by constitution.

>>54875595
>>54875553
There are a metric ton of Armor Upgrades that give you everything from rocket boots to palm cannons.

>>54875675
Yeah, but it's armor. Not a mech, exactly, which is why I suggested Power Armor. It's at least battery-powered. Armor DOES work, though.

>>54875715
Normal armor CAN be battery-powered, it's discussed on the armor upgrades page that anything that requires batteries will "include" one onto the armor.

>>54874945
Ah, well I think we'll probably end up just disagreeing.
I don't see this as a problem. What it means is that other classes, such as the soldier, do not have the ability to trounce the Envoy or Operative at their party role without having to expend more resources. Soldier, for example, doesn't have immediately apparent class features that aid in those, but actually if you dig a bit deeper, it's possible to get close.

We'll use a Halfling Soldier here, who is a Soldier who graduated from the best Navy Seals/Spectre/Spetznov/whatever commando/marine school Halflings can offer, and incidentally is a Soldier, making him the worst class at skill checks.
Soldier can choose between STR and DEX, so naturally it takes DEX it's primary attribute score. There, now secondary can be CHA and progress just about as a Halfling Operator's stats did, but let's focus on Stealth and assume 18 DEX start. Like the operative, we get to Dex 26 pretty comfortably.

You get Combat Feats every other level along with Gear Boosts, so spend your normal feats to help you with skill synergy to get Stealth as a class skill and skill focus.

+20 (Ranks), +3 class skill (Skill Synergy Feat), +3 (Skill Focus feat), +8 (Dex 26) +2 (Racial) = +36 Stealth.
He buys Skin of the Cameleon for 4,050 credits for +3 circumstance bonus to stealth just because changing colors is cool for a total +39 stealth, putting him [1] point the operative as you described, though I imagine you could push the operative's stealth up even farther, especially since you didn't touch on the cloaking device.

Again, if there is no chance of failure, then players shouldn't be rolling. At a glance, these numbers seem fine, not even touching upon spells or other things that may come out in the future, or alien anthology which will provide much more data for bench-pressing.

>>54875756
Huh. I continue to be incorrect. Disregard me.

>>54875715
>>54875595
>>54875553
The trick is that Power Armor is only three, maybe four rules away from being mechs already; you need vehicle defenses (HP, armor, and hardness for them), you need mods that are built to work with mechs, and you needweapons that are built to work with them.

If you get those three things and staple them onto the power armor system, you can start writing up entire mech suits.

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>>54875788
Maybe I'll write up some homebrew for this stuff. Seems like it deserves it, and Starfinder is eminently weak on crunch right now, just due to only having the CRB out.

>>54875553
Ironman is the poster child of power armor, not mech suits!

>>54875553
I really wish there had been an option for the Mechanic to wear a combat drone like the Synthesist Summoner, but right now your best bet is power armor and mods.

>>54875774
That's using your primary stat though.

If you're not using your primary/secondary stat, you can get fucked.

>>54874993
How does the Viking's Fearsome ability stack with something like Dazzling Display?

>>54875893
That would have been cool, but they probably would have fucked it up with overly complex rules and confusing language like the synthesist.

>>54875601
The difference isn't that huge. You still have low level characters with meat points that can absorb several impact grenades to the skull with no problems.

And Con only applying to Stamina is a different issue- the score that's supposed to represent physical toughness now increases your luck, and doesn't affect your meat points at all.

Shitty Zealot build idea: feat into having an animal companion, (optional: then give the animal companion the bestial kineticist archetype from legendary Kineticists) and add your animal buddy to your collective.

Would it be fun? Could it work?

>>54876659
>feat into having an animal companion
How?

>>54876561
Constitution represents your endurance, rather than your meat points. your ability to keep dodging - unless you want to tell me that cranking up your musculature is somehow going to deflect bullets. I'd say given that, Constitution affecting Stamina primarily makes sense.

>>54876693
Animal Ally feat gives one.

>>54876659
Depending on your group it might only be fun for you; Zealot is pretty much the strongest PoW class in the first place and tacking an archetyped animal companion onto that only makes it worse.

Seems like a good way to set yourself up to just dominate the entire game and leave everyone in the dust. If the others are minmaxing it'd be fine though probably.

>>54876693
Costs 3 feats to have one that actually uses your character level.

>>54876780
I just want a badass horse

>>54875919
I don't think so, really. Yes, if you dump the stats and don't care about ranking them, then yes, you will get fucked, but again, I think every class has some method of approaching challenges, unlike in Pathfinder.
In Pathfinder, if someone in the party doesn't have a good stealth modifier, the other characters compensate, whether that be the Wizard casting Invisibility, or sending the stealthy party member ahead to scout. Honestly, I'd still pat the operative on the back and let them have the spotlight for a stealth check. That is definitely the Ghost Operative's thing.

But since the Technomancer can still cast Veil, Mass Invisibility, and has all the hacks and spells to remove enemy perception bonuses, and the Mystic can at the very least poach Greater Invisibility or mind-wipe the enemy into not remembering you were there, we can say pretty confidently that they have ways to deal with the stealth challenges.

That leaves Mechanic and Solarian, since we've touched on Operative, Envoy and Soldier, already. The Mechanic can control it's stealth drone from 5 miles away by level 7, or at Level 8 use Drone Meld to wear it on his back and get reactive camouflage/invisibility field, and is excellent at defeating technological enemies (with the kind of vision that you can't dispel away with magic).

Solarian gets Stealth as a class skill, Sidereal Influence gets you +1d6 bonus (3.5avg) and Stealth Warp grants you another +4 to stealth checks. That's roughly a +10/11 from class features without any other investment, and it's got some handy built in movement abilities to aid in infiltration.

I am hardly an expert at all with this system, but just at a cursory glance, I don't see any of the classes as being fucked at passing skill challenges if the player wants them to be competent. In fact, quite the opposite, different classes have different flavors for their approaches, with some classes being more adept than others, as suits their niche specialties.

>>54876693
Grab the Sylvan Bloodline with Eldritch Whatchamacallit.

>>54876939
Doesn't work, since it fucks with Arcana, which you can't get via Eldritch Heritage or VMC

>>54876780
What makes Zealot so strong?
I thought Mystic still stood at the top?

>>54877020
Zealot has the best defense, the best offense, the best buffing, and the best recovery mechanic bar none.

>>54877070
The best possible in terms of optimizing, or the best out of the box?

>>54877020

>Strong chassis: Good Will/Fort save; Full BAB, 10HD, 4 skills.
>Essentially full maneuver recovery on a move action that also buffs your attack or ac by 2
>Group attack buffs
>Can share his fucking maneuvers with the rest of the party so it's not only him spamming maneuvers but everyone else aswell.
>Poaches Life-Link from oracle
>Very nice utility from missions
>Telepathy and essentially free permanent Tongue buff.
>Free Diehard
>All that before level 6

Whoever designed Zealot is a moron.

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>>54876914
Why do you need skill monkey class features to KEEP UP with the math?

Shouldn't skill monkey class features put you ahead of the curve?

>>54876914
What if I want to be a soldier who's decent at Charisma skills, can I just get fucked then?

Hahahaha, look at me, I'm putting... Charisma high... on a fighter 2.0...

>>54877183
>can I just get fucked then?

The nature of ability advancement in Starfinder means you can get a 16+ in your Charisma by level 10.

>>54877259
If you're a ranged soldier you want Dex, Con, Int, and Wis.

What's more interesting, an oceanic planet stuffed full of islands and archipelagos or a similar "planet" consisting of floating islands above a void? Both would be that way because of a totally not-cliched cataclysm

>>54877369
>Implying

>>54876914
Stealth was an odd example to go with, since Invisibility completely blows the skill out of the water. It's a +20 bonus to the check if your opponent has some special way to detect you (like blindsight), and automatic success if they don't.

>>54876700
I think I recall something in the description of Stamina suggesting it's not just lucky dodges and heroic pluck, it's also the skill to take what should be a dangerous blow and turn it into a glancing hit, something that just leaves a little scratch or a bruise that will heal up overnight. Personally, I think I prefer to think of Stamina Points that way anyway, it makes more sense to me. Luck and the determination to keep going should be concepts that are wrapped up in Resolve, and Stamina as your ability to turn dangerous hits into glancing blows makes more sense as something you can temporarily run out of- you're getting tired.

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Am I missing anything?
Trying to figure out what I need as a first time GM. Promised my friends I'd learn this system and run a group for them.

>>54877453
You absolutely do not need the screen or the cards; those are just gimmicks that add nothing but the thin veneer of being "classical" in RPGs.

>>54877158

EXACTLY! That's what people defending this keep forgetting about proper RPG design.

>>54877411
>an oceanic planet stuffed full of islands and archipelagos

This, because ironically the more weird option of floating islands above a void has been terribly overdone.

>>54877468
I just figured they would make things easier for me. I've only ever run one game in my life (Mutants and Masterminds) so I have next to no experience running games.

>>54877468

Doesn't the screen have important tables for quick reference on the GMs side?

>>54877453
Everything you need is on the d20PFSRD and Archive of Nethys. If you must buy something, its preferable to only buy the Core Rulebook, and make Condition cards yourself from a simple case of index cards. You're better off just having a Tablet opened to the SRD at all times.

Further, most splat books can be easily found as free PDFs using a cursory google search

>>54877586
I have shit hand writing and don't own a tablet (yet) so I'd be fine with spending the $9 for the cards.

>>54877577
That's what I assumed, hence why I included it in my cart.

>>54877453
>>54877468
>>54877541
If you need it, I've got a copy of the Screen. I could post pictures of it so you can make your own cheat-sheet/cardboard screen if you need it so you don't have to give Paizo your money

>>54877411
It depends. I mean, in a vacuum, the latter sounds more interesting and maybe it has more potential, but you've created a very strange situation and you'll need to properly explain it. If you can't do that and do it well (providing good, interesting exposition to your players can be hard), then you're better off keeping things more grounded, in my opinion.

It's like, I once made a setting with a friend, a planet composed of giant clockwork gears and parts, where a field of reverse gravity forced most of the planet's inhabitants to live on the underside of the solid "clouds" that were held in place by a powerful magnetic field. I don't think I could run a game there without making a really, really extensive lore guide to the setting. I could do it, but it's a lot more work than running a game that takes place in, say, a generic Tolkien-esque setting.

Anyway, for me personally, I'd rather play a game on the real planet than the void islands.

>>54877453
>>54877468
Rather than a GM screen, I just run my games from within a pillow fort containing a lantern, snacks, and all my books and dice. I have to shout to be clearly understood by my players, though.

>>54877630
>I just run my games from within a pillow fort containing a lantern, snacks, and all my books and dice.
What about the "No gurls allowed" sign? Every pillow fort needs that!

>>54877671
Not this pillow fort! We like girls inside our pillow fort!

Can I play as a flumph?

>>54877761
Floating jellyfish-like creatures canonically exist, they just don't have a statblock yet.

Better yet, when threatened by a powerful foe the jellies are known to "link together" and form a single massive consciousness like some sorta biological Voltron.

>>54877411
The ocean can be full of interesting creatures and places to explore, while the void is just empty and boring.

>>54877832
>trying to confess
>nervous as hell
>spilling your spaceghetti
>in a moment of panic, link up with other space jellies
>now have the confidence to proclaim your love
>she says yes!
10/10 i cri evertiem

>>54877861
>not having horrific void beasts that only reflect sub99% levels of light, so they're almost completely invisible to the naked eye, save for when they obscure the things behind them

>>54877411
An oceanic planet stuffed full of islands and archipeligoes is more interesting. Be sure to populate it with uplifted doplhins and killer whales in power armour.
I never got a chance to play Blue Planet RPG but I can borrow some ideas from it.

>>54877942
Dude, that's straight up an example they use of the race in the CRB. These fucking Jellies will go Murder.exe at the drop of a hat.

At what level would you say normal Pathfinder play becomes rocket tag? How necessary is dealing with the rocket tag nature of high-level play to prevent the game from falling apart at those levels?

Seeing that people think Starfinder is meant to cap out in practice around level 13 makes me wonder if I should reconsider making my current PF campaign run all the way up to level 20.

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Tell me about the bullshit or commonly-despised Erratas only YOU remember, /pgg/. Lay them on me. I have a fucking abysmal memory and need to compile a better list than just shit like Jingasa and QRS, Crane Wing and Heirloom Weapon, Sacred Fist and Scarred Witch Doctor... But what less commonly known fuckups are out there?

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>>54877980

>>54878009
That's pretty fantastic.

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>>54877158
>>54877529
I think there's a fundamental misunderstanding here.
Being a skill monkey does not, and should not, mean that you succeed at skill checks without risk. You should only be rolling when there is a chance of failure.

A skill monkey should have higher odds of succeeding at a task than someone without as much skill. But that is all it really means. It doesn't mean they should get some guaranteed 100% success chance.

The whole point of a Full BAB vs 3/4 BAB (+20 vs +15) progression is exactly this. Not that you should 100% hit the enemy every time, but that, compared to combat-secondary character types, you've got between 5-25% better chance of hitting.
It should be no surprise that skill monkey classes get a comparable advantage.

What needs to be considered here is what the baseline chance of success or failure is in Starfinder challenges. Touhou anon posted some information concerning monster DCs, we need Alien Anthology to get a better picture, a better bell curve, of what sort of averages per level we are looking at.

>>54877183
If you want your Charisma skills to be high, then go ahead and put Charisma high on your Soldier! For your theme take Xenoseeker or Idol for +1 CHA, and since you've got feats for days, go ahead and pick up Skill Synergy to get Diplomacy and Bluff as class skills with your level 1 human bonus feat, and even with 10 INT you'll get 5 skill ranks a level to distribute. No one is stopping you from being a charismatic soldier. Much more doable than in Pathfinder.

>>54877444
I used Stealth as an example because it is less likely that every member of the party needs to get the other social skills, as most of the social skills (Bluff, Diplo, Intimidate) can be handled by one, or divided between several characters, and in large this discussion has come about due to Touhou's DC analysis concerning these four skills. Stealth is merely one example, and yet it is also the pillar skill of the "Be an Operative" claim.

>>54877980

>Killer whales in power armor
>Psionic Sperm Whales at war with eldritch worshipping Krakens with bio-engineered fishmen
>mollusk people who can reshape their shells into humanoid shapes acting as mercenaries
>Merpeople of various ocean bioms (aztec river dolphin people)
>A race of giant bird people who try and hunt the merpeople for food

Make it so number 1

>>54878029
Urban Barbarians losing the ability to still do a normal rage if they choose to.

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TELL ME ABOUT ELVES

WHY DO THEY WEAR THE MASK?

>>54878297
Because that whole idea wasn't original to start with. It just got memed because it was better written than 90% of the shit in here.

>>54878297
It doesn't matter who they are, what matters is the planet they lost

>>54878297

Ever since the Gap, they've been almost completely unwilling to engage with the other races. Wearing a mask denies others the chance to even see their facial features, which discourages personal interaction.

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Pictured: one of the Envoy's saving graces. A way to give your martial buddy Pounce

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Red pill me on full attacking in Starfinder.

>>54878424
It does a pretty big amount of damage.

>>54878427
Is the -8 on four attacks better than the interatives with decreasing accuracy though?

>>54878458
...what?

Starfinder full attacks are two attacks at -4 each.

>>54878488
Well yeah, but I mean if you get Triple Attack or Quad Attack. The regular full attack should just be compared to having two attacks from your BAB in PF.

Intrigue and Shackles are never going to pick players, they are going to fade away.

Just to maximize the pain.

>>54878534

Didn't one of those games pick players over the weekend, though?

>>54878558
Yeah, Intrigue already picked. And funny enough, Skull & Bamboozles' GM was one of the players.

>>54878499
Triple Attack and Quad Attack are still at -4 for all attacks.

Can Aegis delay taking the Initiator's Soul customization to grab higher level maneuvers when you do end up taking it, assuming you still meet the prerequisites for the maneuvers?

>>54878603
Not true. The abilities always state -6 and -8 respectively. Basically, going full rapid is only good if you're taking down lesser foes or one easy-to-hit boss mob.

You are usually better off moving and shooting.

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>Elves have a Mesmerist FCB for +1/4th bonus Grapple and Trip combat maneuver attempts
>on Mesmerist

what the fuck

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>>54878658

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>>54872269
>not even /tg/ is safe from shisui sluts
I'm so tired of this fucking outfit.

>>54878399
Haste gives pounce with a movement speed boost on top, comes online at a lower level, and has far better action economy.
There's also an item that gives self-haste as a swift action.
To salt the wound, all the martials have ways to move and either full attack or approximate a full attack in-class.

>>54878812
Shisui isn't even good, desu. I feel you man.

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>>54878812
>>54879038

What's wrong with Shisui? It seems like a perfectly ordinary town.

>>54875553

Mechanic who merges with his combat drone named Jarvis.

>>54879038
post a better slut-mog then

>>54879057
>those flag poles
>that tree placement
>those shops
0/10 burn it to the ground.

>Abyssal bloodrager bloodline gives you claws, enlarge for free when bloodraging and up to +6 extra to Str
>Every guide treats it like shit
I don't get it, what am I missing?

>>54878769
I stand corrected, though I know I saw the increasing penalties somewhere.

This is which class?

>>54878658
They definitely don't. You might want to try actually reading the book.

>>54879139
arcane is just hat much better. Dice increases are memes at best, can't 2-hand AND use claws. You go primalist anyways for beast totem for eventual pounce and that gives you claws anyways

>>54879144
That screenshot is from the Operative.
I believe it were the Soldier and the Solarian who got growing penalties.

>>54878096

No-one's saying skill monkeys should autosucceed, but in Starfinder only a skill monkey stands any chance of succeeding at all, and even that's only a 50/50 chance

Non-skill monkeys have it so bad that they might as well not even receive skill points, as their modifiers will at best give them a 25% chance of success.

This is just bad game design, skills are virtually worthless to anyone but skill monkeys and a skill monkey's chance of success is virtually what a non-skill monkey's would be in another game.

>>54874052
Kingmaker

It's over.

The memes are gone.

Nevermore shall there be a campaign to blight this General. Wipe this meme from the face of the earth.

>>54879175
Why do you want operatives to autosucceed?

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>>54879204

>>54879159
What if I want to be a ragebred?

>>54879105
>slot-mog
Confirmed for being a filthy secondary. At least use the right term.

>>54879200
This is simply a lull. You're a fool if you think we can ever go back to how things were. Welcome the new era and despair.

Rory, go to bed.

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>>54879166
Why does the Operative get a better full attack than the Soldier and Solarian?

>>54879305
Because it can only be done with crappy weapons and their BAB is 1-5 points worse.

>>54879305
Because it's only with Small Arms and Operative Weapons, which get shit damage scaling.
That Quad Attack is only equivalent in damage output to a two-attack full attack with a Longarm or an Advanced Melee weapon, which is what Soldier and Solarian did at level 1.

>>54879305
Operators want to operate operationally

>>54879196
Kingmaker is shit in some parts, though. Maybe even a lot of parts, depending on who you ask. I played through the whole thing, I think it's alright. The last book really is the worse part for me.

>>54879261
Arcane is still better at doing the whole ragebred thing, as you take beast totem for pounce

>>54879279
glamours will never take the place of transmog considering it's so much younger of a term

>>54879340
Says the secondary. 97% of everyone in FFXIV calls them glamours.

>>54879340
It definitely makes more sense as a term, though.

>>54879350
say that to my 1.0 account newfag

>>54879305
Because the remember the basics of CQC

>>54879355
>playing in 1.0
I'm sorry you had to do that.

>>54879340
>>54879350
>Not just calling them vanity items

>>54879328
To get pounce you have to give up 2 features from arcane starting at 4th level, so 4th and 8th for example, that means blurr and displacement for example, so why even take arcane?

>>54879294
We shall and in many ways we have. The Elder Memes have deigned that the stars are wrong, and slumber. But with the Dark Sun that shall cast itself over America next week, I worry we shall see the sinister piping of those maddening trumpeters as they belch forth another meme mistake (a memestake, as it were.)

>>54879374
Look. we're talking about the FFXIV armor set, so it's proper to use the FFXIV terminology.

>>54879318
2hu crunched the numbers. Operation be does more damage than soldier

>>54879402
Link?

>>54879375
you give up the 4th level and 12th level power. The 8th level power is never worth giving up plus to get greater beast totem you'd have to take it at 12 anyways

>>54879340
Pretty sure cosmetic equipment looks have been called glamours way longer than WoW had been out. Fairly certain it was a tabletop term in the very first place.

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>>54878956
>Haste gives pounce

Why are you lying on the Internet anon?

>>54879381
With the coming of the Dark Sun, there shall be wrath and ruination across this land, as ancient memes long forgotten return to claim their thrones and feast upon the flesh of their progeny

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>>54879363

So can I actually knifegun and commence virtuous missions?

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>>54879433
Maybe you should actually read the damn book, anon.

>>54879450
It's good, but it's not Pounce. Pounce ties into Charge, which is a full attack after moving twice your speed with +2 to hit on all of the attacks. Would kinda suck ass in Starfinder where charging is neutered, but it's still not pounce.

>>54879471
Any variation of move and full attack is frequently colloquially called pounce, even if technicalities are different.

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>>54879450
Ah, I was thinking of Pathfinder haste.

Still, why are you lying about it being available at lower levels? 3rd level spells only become available to full casters in Starfinder at level 7.
The envoy can do Hurry at level 4

>>54879508
>Still, why are you lying about it being available at lower levels?
Because I was thinking about Improved Hurry, which is level 8. As, well, let's be frank - regular Hurry is garbage.

With spellcasters getting nerfed so hard in Starfinder, is there even any reason to play one?

>>54879547
Starfinder Haste is amazing. And they're still solid T3.

>>54879547
No. Don't play Starfinder. Pathfinder casters are so much better, why downgrade?

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>>54879523
I mean, Improved Hurry is in all respects better than Haste is it not?
You can use it to let someone cast two spells.

Also, vanilla Hurry still gives pounce. So I'm still not sure why it's garbage.

>>54879554
Amazingly shitty. All it does is give faster move speed and an extra move action when you full attack. In a game where people use guns. Who cares?

>>54879568
>I mean, Improved Hurry is in all respects better than Haste is it not?
>You can use it to let someone cast two spells.
You're thinking the level 12 use, not the level 8 use.
Moreover, why not be the second caster in the first place? That gives you twice the spell slots and actually twice the action economy - you don't have to burn a standard to give a standard.
As for vanilla hurry - it's a standard action to give one ally one move action. Not a good trade, compared to haste which is a standard action to give everyone extra move actions for CL rounds.

>>54879573
Guns deal shit damage. Melee is where all the damage's at. Also, reach is extremely good.

Can an elf be cute if she's a Xenophobic racist with a scary mask?

>>54879547
Yes, they still hold most of the non-skill related utility to themselves.

>>54879638
Physically cute? Sure. Cute around people with whom she's comfortable? Sure.

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>>54879598
I wasn't making a distinction between 12th and 8th, mearly showing that it has use.

Also, you may as well ask why anyone would play anything other than a space wizard in that case.

The answer, is because we should work to find a niche for classes that might seem otherwise inferior. For the sake of those players who want to make it work.

>>54879638
Of course.

>>54879638
Well, Eldar are cute, so yes.
Also, as she is forced to work for the other races, eventually that xenophobia will turn to begrudging respect, and then tsundere

>>54879547
Were 6th level spell casters ever bad in Pathfinder?

>>54879638
If I took off that mask, would she genocide?

>>54879686
It would be very painful

>>54879702
For you

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So /peegeegee/ would I be correct in saying that if I took Heavy Weapon Proficiency as a feat as level one, weapon specialization from class levels wouldn't cover it?

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>>54879702
>>54879709

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>>54879721
Go home!

>>54879713
You would be correct.

>>54877411
Does Starfinder not already have a hawaii planet? Where do the people go on holiday?

What's the most hot-blooded of the mental stats?

>>54879741
Eox to watch the death games, probably.

>>54879743
Charisma, obviously

>>54879736
Well I guess my dream of a heavy weapon toting badmouth Ysoki is still a pipe dream

>>54879743
high int/wis and low cha

>>54879754

>You're going to die eventually, why not fritter away your remaining days at our vacation destination?

>>54879638
The Elves are still incredibly passionate, creative people. They're just incredibly paranoid now too.

Elves are basically a race of kuudere and tsundere, aggressive and cold initially but soon warms up to protect your smile.

>>54879741
It does, there are multiple worlds noted as tourist destinations that include the Gas Giants, Absalom Station, Castroval and some planets in the Vast (there is literally a world they were terraforming just because it had sick ski lodge potential.)

>>54879789

>Protect your smile

These are the guys who arm "independent fleets" to attack a Pact World signatory so they can dodge sanctions.

>>54879787
Sounds perfect!

>>54879812
And they'll do worse to protect your smile.

>>54879812
In fairness, those Drow trash absolutely deserve it

>>54879755
>>54879776
M-Masaka!

>>54879776
If Kamina has taught me anything it's actually the opposite of this.

>>54879849
Strength/Charisma is the obvious hotblooded protagonist setup.

Go to bed NPC-chan

>>54879763
Just play soldier or go without the level bonus damage. Heck wait two levels and pick the specialisation feat then.

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>>54879721
Some dank memes

>>54879862
Who is this?

>>54879867
I was thinking an exocortex mechanic then take proficiency feat at level 1 then I could take specialization as my 3rd level. I don't know too mcuh about the feats or their worth right now though so I don't fancy the idea of committing 2/3 feats to it.

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How has your character's Size affected their lives? Do most locations in your setting have accommodations for races off different sizes?

>>54879812
That's how far they'll go to make you smile, anon.

Not only are they kuudere and tsundere, they've got a touch of the yandere.

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>>54880084
Don't betray me, anon-kun! <3

>>54880107

That's not an elf, that's a Fin!

>>54879675
No, but it's not Starfinder's casters being 6 level that's the problem. It's that the spells in Starfinder are much shittier.

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>>54880138
This is the only alternative I had!

>>54880195
>Beneath the mask, he's laughing at the galaxy

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>>54879294
>the cabal is doing voice chat now
>the main discord is derailed into shitposting
>no new campaigns

let god smite us, let the rains come down from on high and wash us away, for we are sinners wallowing in filth and decay and the only salvation we may find is in the blissful embrace of death.

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>>54880244
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oIscL-Bjsq4

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>>54880244

We could just post sci-fi monsters and NPCs, though.

>>54880244
What's wrong with voice chat?

>>54880244
Why would you judge the threads based on the Discord servers? You can solve at least one of these problems yourself.

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>>54880244
Just crack open a cold one with your boys and enjoy the ride, anon.

>>54880080
He's an exceptionally large lad, so he's always bumping his noggin against doorways and ceilings.

>>54880333
That must be extremely painful.

New thread:
>>54880331
>>54880331
>>54880331
>>54880331

>>54880347
He's a big guy.

>>54880080
My character's problem isn't height so much as breadth. He spent a lot of his youth learning to keep all his appendages from getting caught in doors or knocking things over, but by now everything moves as natural as a hand.

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>>54880358
F-for me?

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>>54880244
>Taveena still in the Gulag, Forrest MIA, Discipline Errata nowhere to be found
>Jolly is being a sane man and keeping his distance, but that means less chance to directly bug him about stuff
>Rajah is the only playtest I remotely care about, but I can't work up the hype to dig into it and bug the dev about things since my group doesn't use initiating or akashic
>I'm an autistic faggot

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>>54880371
Especially for you.

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>>54880397
My body is ready.

>>54880360
Good for him! Does he have more appendages than normal?

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>>54880387
>tfw at least we have Legendary Gunslinger

>>54880439
Just one or two, but that other one's less of a problem

>>54880457
Secret appendages?! Tell me about your appendages!

>>54880354
Page fucking 6, shitlord.