/STG/ - Star Trek General

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>>54871085

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>>54870156

DS9 and VOY had decent ratings for genre shows, comparable to other fairly big name shows of the time (like the X-Files). It's actually TNG that "started" the death spiral, because the execs were continuing to chase the mainstream appeal that TNG brought to the table.

Those numbers weren't sustainable because TNG came out at a time when there were only a handful of channels, and it was syndicated, so there were a lot of options to watch it.

What killed Trek was TNG. Both the show, which produced the audience numbers chase, and the movies, which were terrible yes, even First Contact.

The last nail in the coffin was the inability to figure out why chasing TNG's numbers wasn't working, and moving Trek to a single shitty network. VOY tried to be TNG's 8th-14th seasons, and even when it good it was only barely so. ENT had two seasons where they didn't really know what they wanted to do with the show, so it was basically TNG with a new coat of paint.

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Not even Euderion can make this turd appealing.

>>54873705
Who the fuck thought that was a great idea?

>>54873821

Again. I'm not entirely sure we aren't looking at a Springtime For Hitler gambit from CBS here.

>>54873821
The... romulans? Is that not some mutant form of bird of prey?

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Excuse me, comfiest ship class in the fleet coming through

>>54874405
I don't think CBS is that smart.

>>54874640

Well I never said they were going to pull it off.

>>54874604
Gotta agree with you anon. I'm also partial to the Sutherland class they released in STO

>>54874405
It's more like "Paramount needs to do something to retain the Trek license since they're not making another movie anytime soon, and CBS needs something to promote their pointless streaming service".

>>54874604
If they shrank it by about 33% I'd like it a lot better.

>>54875254
Yeah I like the miranda too.

>>54875254
Or, hear me out, they had made it a proto-Miranda or proto-Excelsior it would have been better. This design is ridiculous, the uniforms are out of place and the Klingons and their "sarcophagus" ship make no damn sense.

>>54875301
Sorry, meant to post to >>54873821

Isaacs, aka Captain Lorca from STD says “I don't mean to sound irreverent when I say I don't care about the die-hard Trek fans."

Welp, we're fucked on this one.

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>>54875408

I can't say I'm surprised. Still sticking to my "not watching STD until the series is over with" policy. If they don't care about the lifelong Trek fans, they can go fuck themselves.

>>54875408
Sheeeeeit

>>54875760
I am operating on the same policy.

>>54875408
Has there ever been a series more dead on arrival to the fans of the series than STD?

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>>54875298
Miranda is about 75% smaller though, it's fucking tiny by comparison.

>>54875408
Perhaps you should stop mindlessly reposting from reddit and read the actual interview yourself.
>I look forward to having the fun of them being outraged, so they can sit up all night and talk about it with each other.
Sounds more like he doesn't care about whatever expectations die-hard fans have for him as captain, not that he doesn't care about them at all, which is fair enough since the captain's not the main character this time around so he doesn't need to fit the same mold as previous captains.

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>>54876001

Untwist thy knickers and post the full quote then:

>I don’t mean to sound irreverent when I say I don’t care about the die-hard Trek fans. I only ‘don’t care’ about them in the sense that I know they’re all going to watch anyway. I look forward to having the fun of them being outraged, so they can sit up all night and talk about it with each other.

The funny thing is, though, is that he's wrong. At least where I'm concerned. I'm NOT watching STD. Not until its run its course, good or bad.

>http://screenrant.com/star-trek-discovery-jason-isaacs-controversy-debate/

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>>54876177

Hmm. Take a look at this, it's from the article that was the source for the other one:

> Jason Isaacs is ready for the captain's chair. The Liverpool native will play Captain Lorca in the “Star Trek: Discovery,” and he's fine with the possibility that die-hard fans may have difficulty adjusting to the reboot of the beloved franchise.

>Isaacs, 54, said the new show will throw away the legacy of William Shatner and Patrick Stewart – and expects it to upset die hard Trekkies.

It's then followed up by the quote. So is it a reboot? Or is that a misnomer on the author of the article's part?

Either way, STD doesn't deserve a chance to succeed, based on what they've said and shown so far.

>>54874604
>Galaxy but with foetal alcohol syndrome
No thanks m8

>>54875206

So this is like that one Fantastic Four movie that Fox made back in the 90's?
The only one that's actually good?

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>>54876774
Problem is with the Fantastic 4 movie is that everyone thought they were making a legit movie that could have been a stepping stone to something bigger, so they tried really hard to make it work with the limited budget they had.

Not getting ANY sense of that from Discovery. I mean I hope it's not shit, but honestly given all the things I've hoped for to not be shit that have actually turned out shit, I'm not getting my hopes up.

>>54877016

At this point I feel like the only guys to really get Trek are the guys doing STO, and even that's got it's foibles.

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>>54877201
I don't think even they get star trek, not the way their plots work.

The star trek adventures guys seem to though, will have to see as expansion content for the game happens.
And the mod for Stellaris seems to be really trying.

>>54877201
give Star Trek Continues a look, it really seems like everyone involved loves the source materiel and is willing to put a lot of time into it.

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Should Starfleet reinstate the M.A.C.O?

>>54877441
Yes.

It also needs a fleet of border patrol boats and a police fleet for the major trade lanes. Because fuck waiting until it rains to fix the roof.

>>54872561
What's that ship second from the right, /stg/?

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>>54877587

This:

>http://memory-alpha.wikia.com/wiki/USS_Enterprise_(XCV_330)

>>54877441
Name a single problem from the shows that MACO could solve that regular old ship security could not. Also, we've got to keep that "not a military" meme running as long as humanly possible.

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>>54877441
They already exist. We see Starfleet ground forces on a couple of occasions in DS9.

>>54877783
And on every occasion they sucked fucking balls.

Ezri was too pure for the show.

>>54877817
That's just the writers now understanding how combat works at all.

>>54877817
In a setting where shuttlecraft can effectively flatten entire cities, being a foot soldier is always gonna suck.

And, to be fair, the Marines (they're never explicitly called marines but they have their own distinct uniform and Starfleet has that whole space navy shtick going on so fuck it) don't do that bad. The guy we see during the battle with the klingons is just after saving his entire platoon by being a badass. And the guys at AR-558 have been holding a position against a superior enemy force with crazy ass phase mines all over the place for weeks.

>>54877403
They're getting better. The end of the Iconian war was super Trek, even if most of the rest of the arc was ridiculous and dumb.

>>54877617
Was there ever another reference to the giant aliens from Farpoint in books or anything?

>>54878271
They make brief appearance in STO just before the Lukari become shit.

>>54878271
One of the Titan books focuses pretty heavily on them and the Crystalline Entities.

>>54878063
This desu - the whole thing was the first plot point in STO to genuinely surprise me especially Sela's fucking up going full circle, since I just expected it to end in dakka. It actually felt like Trek, for once (Mindscape does pretty well, and the prophet-y bits of The 2800 come a distant third place), which is pretty fucking rare for Cryptic.

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>>54879017
I can't believe it took me this long to notice that the Curry is really just a badly malformed Excelsior.

>>54877817
As opposed to the Macos? They did a piss-poor job of protecting Enterprise.

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>>54879425
sort of oberth-y

>>54879425
You know, I've played the Stellaris mod a bunch now and I don't think I've ever once played as the Federation.

>>54877201
David Mack and the guys doing the Seekers books get classic Trek pretty well. It's a shame all of them want to continue flogging the novel line when STO would be a better use of their time, since I'd kill to have the novel continuity Data show up rather than the shitty one from Countdown.

>>54879521
Eh, it's more of just an ugly parts rearrangement.

>>54879558
>STO
>a better use of anyone's time

Lulwut?

>>54879609
The Trek novels are pretty much just spinning their wheels at this point. They're not even to the Hobus supernova timeline wise, but are building up the Romulans as a HUEG threat. Hell, the most recent trilogy was a 2380s follow up to Star Trek III for Christ's sake.

>>54879521
The Oberth at least has unique parts. The Curry is literally the Excelsior chopped up into the hull, saucer, and nacelles, then glued back together all wrong.
>>54879527
The council mechanic is a quick and easy way to integrate new members, but your core worlds spiral out of control fast, especially once you first form it. I also find that unless you act fast, the Cardassians will gobble up Bajor and Trill without fail, every game. It's kind of amusing. Betazed doesn't really fare much better.

Ignoring Trek '09, would the Federation have the technology to protect a planet's atmosphere from being stripped away by a Supernova?
Let's say 10 light years distance.

Would a planetary shield be a possibility?

>>54879759
Per "Homeward" they have the ability to create an atmospheric bubble to prevent total atmospheric dissipation, but anything more than a small bubble isn't feasible in an emergency. I'd imagine a supernova would have more problems than just that.

>>54879759
I think they could adapt the experimental shield tech in that one episode of TNG where Dr. Crusher solves the murder of the ferengi scientist who created it. It allowed a small shuttle to enter the corona of a highly unstable sun.

>>54879759
>>54879815
>>54879817
Or they could put the shield next to the sun and make it small & strong, shielding a fuckload more space.

>>54879817
Supernovas are kinda multiple orders of magnitude worse than simply sitting next to a star though.

Still, dissipation of effects due to the scale going on... could work.

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>>54879759

Yes. There was a planetary shield around the planet where Garth of Izar was imprisoned in TOS, and Kirk in another episode was shocked to learn Memory Alpha itself had no shields whatsoever.

So, it's possible.

>>54877930
this

>>54879759
Probably depends on how much advance notice they have. Could a single starship do it? Doubtful, see the Homeward example >>54879815

Give the Starfleet Corps of Engineers a few months to set up some kind of static shield system on the surface or in orbit? Yeah almost certainly possible.

>>54880116
Which was the intent. No one expected the Hobus supernova to catch a ride in a subspace channel directed right to Romulus's doorstep.

>>54880116
Well in fairness, if you give the entire Starfleet Corps of Engineers one task and a few months, they could probably build just about anything, given that they are magic space wizards. Fuck, I feel like a Dyson swarm is well within their reach if they really wanted it enough.

>>54876284
Comicsfag here.

Lemme tell you how "We'll make our core audience mad to drum up sales!" goes.

>>54879632
If you advance the plot too much, you can't use canon characters (at least in their current incarnations - you'd have to pull a STO and have a bunch of old farts), and if you can't have that you don't sell books at B&N. My local store in the last couple of months took out half the already pitiful shelf space for Trek books, for more SW books.
Sure, they could make OC Donut Steel characters, but even the Corps of Engineers or Temporal Affairs books use canon characters, even if they were secondary in the shows or in the stories (CoE has Cdr Gomez as a main character, who was one of the pre-Geordi chief engineers on TNG, and Cap. Scott showing up occasionally).

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>>54880203

From what little I've heard about Marvel's future, the answer is: Poorly.

>>54877016

Damn it why wasn't this a thing? I would have loved to see Fillion in star trek.

So is it just me, or are the prospects for discovery just getting worse by the day? They don't care about Trek fans, blatant political agendas (which to be fair star trek has always had, but I feel like it was never this bad.), Fanfiction tier writing. It's like the perfect storm of shit.

>>54880598
>blatant political agendas (which to be fair star trek has always had, but I feel like it was never this bad
TOS was more political for its time than any subsequent series, including DIS. To match it DIS would need a genderqueer/trans and a visibly Muslim woman on the bridge, the admiral or commodore the captian takes orders form most often would need to have Down's, and a prominent genius would have to be featured who's quadriplegic.

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>>54880760

>DIS

Don't do that. It's STD. It doesn't deserve anything but derision.

>>54880760

That is a lovely hyperbolic mental image. Thank you for that.

>>54880760
Or it would have to go the other way, retcon the entire franchise, and have bridge crews exclusively of white, straight, human men, with Christianity as the state religion of the American Space Empire.

Am I a bad person because I want a Star Trek RPG adventure video game? I want a single ship I can deck out with gear and research trees and go on space quests...

like STO, but fun

>>54880838

You know they might actually do something like that if they take a trip to the Mirror universe this time around.

>>54880288
Basically.

the thing is they DID make a trek captain who was radically different than the previous one. Picard. Outside of some awkward early writing, they didn't shit on Jim Kirk to do it, either, dude was just a different man with different style of command and ultimately that was fine.

Like every time people raise concerns about this fucking show the crew just doubles down on their shitty attitude. WHY should they get a chance if all they have is contempt?

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>>54880288
Sort of. Marvel's not that great an example given that what's happened is that physical sales dropping but digital sales are good and they're really just using the comics to prototype movies so they basically don't matter in terms of earnings by comparison to the film division.

Better example would be the 2016 Ghostbusters film: deliberately shat on the old fans as a marketing strategy, bombed. But then it was also a shit film. And Discovery doesn't show signs of being a good show.

>>54880598
As it is, I think a lot of the downsides are being overblown. Now don't count that as me defending the show, I expect it to be mediocre. But pretty much just mediocre, rather than outright awful. I expect confusion and sadness at the wasted potential more than it being genuine unwatchable garbage akin to lot of season 1 TNG and ENT.

I still have no idea why I am supposed to care about main character woman other than other characters saying she has special destiny to be special... and Star Trek really doesn't get on well with destinies to be special because it's not Star Wars (unless you count the JJ films).
The visual design is troubling because not only is it unfitting, it's distinctly unappealing. It was possible to do a visual reboot and NOT have it look that amazingly bad.

The continual stream of news of unhappy production crew/actors is pretty galling because... well even for all its troubles old star trek was known for looking after the people involved (to some degree, I mean not Babylon 5's casual fun workplace tier) and people kept wanting to come back to work on it. A lot still want to work on it. Just look at the collection of actors Axanar managed to drag together for that 20 minute documentary an easy example.

So yeah, get your Immortan Joe masks ready because I think the overall reaction in the end after shit's all calmed down is just gonna be BAH, MEDIOCRE!

>>54880760
Yeah don't forget that they literally had to frame the shots to keep some stations from cutting Uhura out of the shot.

>>54880918
Unhappy crew? I hadn't heard that, what's going down?

Could it just be that they've stopped calling on Trek's traditional source of stable actors, theatrical performers?

>>54880957
I think he's referencing the blurb that said the writers were ditching the no conflict rule Gene setup. So you'll see more interpersonal conflicts between members of the crew

>>54880917
They had Sisko punch Q and point blank say "I'm not Picard!" within the first half season of DS9. There's no one model of a Trek captain.

>>54880917
>>54881017
This video made a number of interesting points on the Sisko thing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tcSKEC5PhoA

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>>54880879
No, you're not. A lot of us do.

Hell if I could afford the headset for Bridge Crew, from everything I've seen I'd be getting fun space adventures.

>>54880917
>Like every time people raise concerns about this fucking show the crew just doubles down on their shitty attitude.

Fuck logic, you're with them or against them!

And damn the fact that there's a lot of reasonable arguments, concerns, and middle-ground to be had! We must divide and be angry! No room for thought, no room for doubt, just follow and yell insults! Don't try to be reasonable, being reasonable make you the enemy of both sides and why would you want to be without a side! Fuck it, it worked great for that Ghostbusters reboot right? Right!

>>54880812
>DIS isn't derisive

>>54881003
No I meant production crew as in the people making the show. Rumour mill has it there's been people leaving or just quietly not happy with the direction of the show. Would go find examples to cite if my eyeballs didn't hurt right now, but the big one is Brian Fuller leaving.

>>54881003
>I think he's referencing the blurb that said the writers were ditching the no conflict rule Gene setup
That rule was enforced for all of two seasons of TNG. TOS had quite a few conflicts among the crew, including loads of racism against Spock.

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Fuckin' loving this episode.

>>54881220

Okay, and?

>>54881242
People seemed interested on my tales on VOY episodes so far. I can stop if I'm being obnoxious.

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>>54881081

Not enough in my estimation, for whatever it's worth.

>>54881258

You're fine. That episode is one of the few good ones.

>>54881258

oh, I'm not saying you should't do that. i haven't been in the General for quite some time. I didn't realize what you were doing. My bad. That one was pretty decent.

That being said I personally don't feel that voyager is the absolute fuck up everyone takes is for. I mean yeah there are some bad episodes, but all of the treks have bad episodes.

>>54881429
Voyager isn't so much a complete fucking disaster as it is the Immortan Joe of shows: mediocre to a fault.

It isn't ever really great and it is only occasionally really garbage, but most of the episodes range from meh to ugh, which isn't a great place to be as a show.

>>54881429
>>54881799
VOY had good actors, good directing, good effects and makeup, combined with generally bad writing and terrible production. It's full of stuff that when you read about it, makes you think it's terrible, but it's generally watchable enough on-screen, everything put together. Even "Threshold" is mostly watchable, as long as you don't think about it for even one second. Maybe watch it in another language without subs.

>>54881991
I think that also shows how important writing is for Trek or other tv sci-fi. You can have everything else work...

Voyager has enough good episodes that you could pack them into a pretty damn good 3 season show. It's the inconsistent quality week-to-week that sucked. You never knew whether you'd be getting a good episode or terrible episode in any given week.

>>54882154
My family always used to joke about "Voyager endings" in that everything would be resolved in the last 5 minutes of the episode.

>>54877587
Proof that Star Trek warp is, in fact, highly refine Alcubierre warp. We'll be measuring spatial distortion in "Alcs" not "Cochranes."

>>54883855
I doubt it. Hell, we got a space shuttle named after the show, you just watch: when we break the light speed barrier, it'll be some nerd who goes out of his way to name it either after himself or Cochrane.

>>54883893
They'll be named Kirks, just watch.

>>54883893
The human race won't live long enough to break the light speed barrier.

>>54881991
>Even Threshold is mostly watchable
No, nothing could make Threshold watchable except a twenty page PhD thesis about how it's all a metaphor for some coke-bender mix of theology and philosophy and a statement on the future of humanity

>>54883918
I don't know, we have made massive strides as is in just the last few years. You might be surprised what humans are capable of doing. We went from fused cannons and sailing ships to developing penicillin and nukes in around 100 years, and we went from not even having decent radios and films with no color or sound attached to high-speed world-wide internet and smart phones in much the same time. Light speed is highly, highly, highly improbable, but put a problem before us and nine times out of ten it won't be a problem anymore within 50-100 years (usually faster).

>>54872249
I love it

>>54883943
I am never surprised at the technical marvels humanity is able to create or fathom. Its all the other bits of humanity that I think will prevent us from reaching that point. Human nature seems to cut both ways. It lifts us up and then just as quickly knocks us back down a few steps.

>>54880543
The firefly crew would consider him a traitor.

>>54883990
hell, they can come too. Tell me Inara wouldn't make a better ships counselor than Troi

>>54881991
>Maybe watch it in another language without subs.
You know, this could actually make Voyager work. I will attempt this and get back to you.

>>54883930
>twenty page PhD thesis about how it's all a metaphor for some coke-bender mix of theology and philosophy and a statement on the future of humanity
https://www.goldennumber.net/wp-content/uploads/pepsi-arnell-021109.pdf

>>54883966
Not necessarily. Take the world post-WWII. All things told, it's been the most peaceful and prosperous time in all of history. As a percentage of total world population, war deaths are at all time lows. I will admit that crimes against humanity (torture, slavery, etc) are still wide-spread but at almost universally panned now. While many areas of the world continue to stand on edge, the actual prospects of the world slipping back to the dark excesses of the early 1900s are rather minimal. Regional disputes, terrorism, etc will occur but just watch: even these are generally beginning to decrease as more and more of the world connects and people try to begin to move on from petty conflicts of our past. Is the world perfect? No, not by any stretch. Is the world getting better? Yes, yes it is. In time, even the fairly untamed and backwards areas of the world will be able to move on (or at least one will hope).

>>54884007
That is not a high bar.

That said I would love a Star Trek: Firefly series.

>>54881220
Is that fucking Frampt behind that guy?

>>54880812
Dis is the Roman grim reaper. That seems oddly apt for this new show.

>>54884785
It's also the city of Hell, and as a prefix changes the connotation of a word to the negative.

>>54884199
I never knew how much I needed this.

Preferably it would be set in the just pre-Picard era on a second hand Star Fleet ship bought/dubiously obtained by a civilian captain.

Their goal? To keep one step ahead of the Demolition Man society that Earth in particular and the UFP in general has become and hopefully undo some of the damage.

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>>54885015
Forgot pic

>>54873705
When I saw the ship I thought warship; a sort of hybrid between an Excelsior Class and a D7. It looked bulky and brutish, like it was made to give and take serious hits. The more I see it and people redesigning it, the worse it looks, though.

I mean, that thing looks like what would come after the Enterprise J.

>>54885015
Never seen it, what's Demolition Man?

>>54885101
A sylvester Stallone movie where the regressive left won.

>>54885101
See it, its worth it despite the awfulness and also because of it.

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>>54885101
It's an old Stallone film. Stallone gets cryogenically frozen as some sort of bizarre punishment for a crime that he did not commit and wakes up in a kind of utopian future 50 years later.

Demolition Man society had such things as
mo meat
no spicy food
no salty food
no alcohol
nothing unhealthy
no physical sex
no music or songs that could be deemed even slightly upsetting or offensive
on the spot fines for mean words

Although the society had a shit load to recommend it due to things like violence being all but unheard of and non-physical psychic sex been offered between friends without shame or embarrassment it is generally considered to be a sort of Grim Bright dystopia. The film largely concerns Stallone pointing out all the flaws in the super safe castrated society and what would now be considered super hugbox culture.

Rodenberry's Vision™ shows distinct similarities to the "Utopian" Demolition Man society but for some reason gets a free pass on the bullshit.

>>54885168
There's also like an entire dennis leary standup routine right in the middle of the film.

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>>54885176
It was a weird film.

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>>54885133
tell me more, /pol/

>>54885260
An avant garde kind of commercialism.

>>54885168
>Rodenberry's Vision™ shows distinct similarities to the "Utopian" Demolition Man society but for some reason gets a free pass on the bullshit.

Because "Roddenberry's Vision" got thinned out by decent writers. They wanted a show that people would watch so 90% of his ideas ended up being dropped in place of something more sensible.
See, the entertainment value in Star Trek hinges on the fact that the characters are serious about their world and believe it's worth all the shit which comes with being a Starfleet officer. Whereas the entertainment value of Demo' Man comes from Stallone and the Bad Guy breaking this "perfect" society in an afternoon.

>>54885478
Also there's some legal hubris and ironic spoiler parts. If it had decent actors and wasn't so studio'd to death, it could even be great.

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>>54884460
I think it's Kaathe

>>54885274
You should watch it, it's great

It's about two people from the 90's trying to fit into politically correct world... only that those two people are a criminal and a cop who's not afraid to get his hands dirty, while normal cops don't even know how to handle someone who doesn't willingly give up

Movie features fining machines for bad languages, sex restricted to telepathy machines, rat burgers and taco bell

>>54886235
Fun fact, in a number of markets, Pizza Hut was used instead of Taco Bell as the last surviving fast food franchise.

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Choo Choo.

>>54885478

The other big thing is that Roddenberry's "utopia" doesn't dwell on how it came about, and who had to be coerced into making it happen, or what measures were taken to "solve" things like world peace and famine.

>>54884785

You mean Dis Pater (yes, it was often shortened to just Dis, but whatever).

>>54884804

Well, it's the Underworld in Roman myth (until Pluto/Hades gets injected into the myth). The City of Hell you're referring to is just from the Divine Comedy.

Either way, it's too obscure for mainstream audiences to understand.

>>54888220
In fairness, it came about because WW3 was so bad we decided "alright, seriously, enough of that shit".

>>54888077
Man these just keep getting sexier and sexier

>>54888413

That's not an explanation, it's a handwave. There were other factions after the war, which we see in First Contact when Lilly and Cochrane think they're under attack from one of them.

All the factions just deciding WW3 was so bad that we should stop fighting each other doesn't explain how famines were ended permanently. It doesn't explain how poverty and crime were solved.

>>54886235
Not him, but I just checked it out and DAMN what a fun movie! Great setpieces and costumes, fun characters, knew how to be light and entertaining without being a giant joke. I found myself grinning from ear to ear once the credits rolled. Thanks for the recommendation, Anon!

>>54888510
Malthus does.
>Kill 90% of your population
>Everyone left has enough for a king

But for real I think the Eugenics Wars shows how they sort of managed to keep order under their domination and them being the enemy was enough to unite everyone against them.

>>54888667

90% of the population is a wild bit of hyperbole there anon. It was more like less than 10% (which is still a lot of people, don't get me wrong).

>http://memory-alpha.wikia.com/wiki/World_War_III

The thing is, is that later on down in that article, a bunch of alliances get together and decide to form a one world government. As a result:

>By the early 2100s – less than two generations after the post-atomic horror – Humanity was finally able to eliminate most if not all poverty, disease, war, and hunger. Along with it, a lot of other things disappeared from Humanity, including hopelessness, despair, and cruelty. (TNG: "Time's Arrow, Part II"; Star Trek: First Contact; ENT: "Broken Bow", "Demons")

My nitpick is that, what about the people who didn't want a one world government? How did the United Earth government solve these problems? Did the ends justify the means? Were people just really happy to go along with it all and have some bureaucrat in California tell them how to live their lives?

>>54888526
It's best when you hear Stallone trying to shout Phoenix but it just comes out as Penis and you can't unhear it.

>>54888796
Oh yeah totally hyperbole, I don't even remember the numbers given from the actual canon.

By Past Tense's time post-Wars humanity was basically a massive bureaucracy with a scarcity in actual work so I assume they had gone full socialism or had developed incredibly efficient methods of food production since everyone had their rations. The world seemed pretty fuckin stable and happy at that point though, outside the ghettos.

>>54888889
"Past Tense" wasn't post-war.

>>54888906
No but it's ambiguous what technologies existed during and after the war or what kinds of governmnents or factions would remain. I assume they are stronger than current day type nations and were closer to united continents which might have had a stronger hold (outside europe which was a fucking wreck prewar)

>>54888936

Even so, there will be people who have different ideas about how government should be run, different ideas about how to deal with crime, different ideas about religion, etc. Those people can co-exist with people they disagree with, but not all of them will.

Trek is handwavy about this stuff because they (the writers) don't know how to solve those problem. And if they tried to show how it was solved, it would be contrived, naive, or just flat out wrong.

>>54889056
Yeah probably but we don't know when shit like the proto-replicators they have in enterprise came about or any of their non-warp tech. There could have been much fewer problems to actually have to deal with if they were borderline post-scarcity even before the vulkans show up. Definitely easier after since they did stick around.

>>54888413
There was shit after the war too. The leader of Terra Prime's dad or grandad was a mini-Hitler/Stalin at one point after the bombs dropped.

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>>54890282
Can't be forgetting the post atomic horror.

>>54880879
My dream Trek game is an extensive Shadowrun mod with writing by... I'unno, Peter David? Mike W. Barr? One of the decent fanon writers, at least.

But your idea is pretty damn solid too.

>>54888510
It's probably for the best that it isn't explored. That way the sheer horror of the war and it's aftermath is left up to the imagination. And the human imagination can think up things much, much worse than a show writer can get past a tv censor.

>>54892478

It also prevents them showing the nominal good guys rounding up dissidents and putting them in re-education camps or outright murdering them because "progress".

>>54882175
>everything would be resolved in the last 5 minutes of the episode
That's 97% of all TV not just Voyager.

>>54891259
>using Shadowrun's mechanics

Just...why?

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>>54893061
Shadowrun's UI would be great for the cover-based combat and "anything goes" diplomacy that Trek loves - you could trick your enemy, flatter them or just tell the Klingon Admiral to shove his bat'leth where the sun don't shine. You could even have party members who are more geared towards trying to get enemies to surrender peacefully.

>>54893386

Personally, I don't think this is a terrible idea. The ship could be a hub area and most of the quests aboard ship would be dealing with coworker drama and various duties. Missions on planet could be away missions dealing with just about anything from Trek, if framed properly.

My personal dream Trek game would be an RPG with a decent character creator set during TOS, as the captain of a ship on a 5 year mission. Expansions could add more content, and potentially be broken into 5 segments, each representing a year.

It's pie-in-the-sky for sure though.

>>54888526
Congrats and welcome to the alt-right nazi club :^)

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>>54893750
STOP IT! IT HURTS!

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>>54893750

>>54892557
>spotted the plebbit contrarian

>>54893750

This looks like absolute trash.

>>54893750
I'm surprised it isn't launching Vipers out of its nacelles.

>>54895644
With that art style it should be launching Turanic raiders.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dTKakINXjl8

>>54892478
Yeah, I like the Eugenics Wars as something that no human really talks about. The closest it should get is DS9 (really a lot of the time DS9 is your limit before Trek gets too grimdark) where you see the augments.

>>54892557
What dissidents? "We have free food, shelter, and clothes. If you want more, find a job. If you don't like it, go live innawoods."

>>54896087

People who don't want you handing out free food, shelter, and clothes to people they consider lesser, for one.

Note that I do not necessarily share that view, but considering we have them today, it's not too far of a stretch that they'd exist sixty to a hundred years from now.

>>54896145
>People who don't want you handing out free food, shelter, and clothes to people they consider lesser, for one.
If those people actually act on those beliefs then they'll be dealt with accordingly. It's one thing to just want to live innawoods where those crazy aliens can't get you, but if you're actually going out and actively fucking people up then say hello to a penal colony.

>>54896247

So, you'll use force, because you know best? How utopian of you.

>>54896247
>>54896272

Let me add something more productive to that statement:

What if there are no "innawoods" for people with those beliefs to fuck off to? Those are resources that could be used for the "good of everyone", so why should they get a special place to keep out people they don't like?

>>54896272
No, don't go all "UR JUST AS BAD!!!" If a group of people is actively using force to prevent the betterment of others then force is acceptable as defense.

>>54896318

Yeah yeah. Read my other post.

>>54871085
How come Kirk sometimes wears a yellow-looking shirt with the emblem on his chest, and other times it's a green-looking shirt with the emblem on the bottom, and turned sideways?

>>54896318
Fuck off, antifa.

>>54896342
the production reason was that Kirk was developing a bit of a pot belly so this wraparound was designed to pull his gut in.

>>54896056
Didn't they almost talk about it in First Contact? I heard that they wanted to make Zephram Cochrane a WW3 veteran who was addicted to the combat drugs Q mentioned in Encounter at Farpoint.

>>54896386
But he's had the two shirts since season two. Why not just have one wraparound and nothing else? Wouldn't the belly show in one but not others?

>>54896318

And what if they're only using political or economic force (i.e. votes, boycotts, etc)?

Also, where is that "betterment" coming from? It can't come from nowhere. Trek as a setting has to somehow go from having scarcity to post scarcity.

Having the Vulcans solve all our ills is not only handwavy as fuck, but also undercuts all of Picard's speeches about how humans developed better ways and left out old ills behind.

>>54896399
Could have shot the episodes out of order which tends to happen. I'm just passing off what I heard in the myriad of Trek docus I've watched.

>>54896272
Of course. The other side isn't even trying to know better; they celebrate willful ignorance. Their point of view doesn't become legitimate just by virtue of someone having it.

>>54896433
Picard wouldn't be alone in taking credit for something that was handed to him by someone else and pretending it was his own achievement.

>>54896483

Might then makes right?

>>54896507

No kidding.

>>54896483

I'm curious as to what you define as a "legitimate" point of view. Depending on who is making the rules, it could be literally anything, or a very narrow set of beliefs that are sanctioned, and all else is the equivalent to political (or maybe even religious) heresy.

>>54896507
>Picard KANGZposted to Q
>then Q got punched by a black guy

>>54896330
>>54896293
If you're talking about the late 21st and early 22nd centuries, then the Earth government wouldn't be unified yet. People who wanted to live innawoods would be able to. As Earth society progresses, those people would eventually die out.

>>54896433
Political force is irrelevant because in any rational democratic system a handful of isolationists wouldn't be able to hold everyone else by the balls just because their fee-fees are hurt by other people being happy. Economic force also becomes irrelevant as civilization moves forward.

>Also, where is that "betterment" coming from? It can't come from nowhere.
Collective progress as a civilization is not a zero-sum game. The only zero-sum game is resources, which becomes trivial through technological progress, both making consumption of resources more efficient and allowing for resources to be harvested off planet, to say nothing of when humanity enters the galactic community of peoples.

>>54896511
Belief doesn't make right. You seem to have this idea that nobody can be wrong about anything and all beliefs are somehow correct in their own way. This leads to a contradiction and thus cannot be true.

>>54896272
>technology and civics have advanced far enough that everyone can be provided for without my having to give up any wealth
>fuck that, let's bomb the elfie embassy

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>>54896342
The yellow shirt was also green-y but colouring process/lighting fucked it up. That shit was arcane magic back in the '60s. like they had troubles on the original pilot trying to find a green that would show up for the Orion lady, because the test footage kept coming back flesh coloured. Turned out the colouration lab people thought they were just really fucking up the lighting and such so were trying to 'correct' the footage. So for the wraparound, well they went really green. Also on the dress uniform.

The wraparound was just so he had something distinct but also casual looking. There's not really any in universe reason for it.

That wraparound also had two designs, one had some shoulder detailing. Materials were different too, and apparently it originally showed up in season 1 but in a different colour and someone else wearing the design.

>>54896555
This is the kind of shit flat-earthers say to trick people into respecring their ideas just because they're theirs. There is an external reality and different models correspond better and worse to it, inconvenient as that may be to the idea of pluralism.

>>54896581

Don't put words in my mouth anon. I'm just playing devil's advocate at the moment because it's better than just accepting what a TV show says is the correct way to think.

Might does make right though. If no one can stop you, you make the rules.

>>54896573

>die out

That's an optimistic idea. What if they don't? They're occupying land and resources that could be more efficiently used in some other way.

Because Trek science and tech are literally magic, I'll just have to accept that they do in fact magically fix all of Earth's problems.

>>54896618

Personally, my views are that only the observable universe actually matters, but there are people who don't like how it makes them feel. My point was ultimately that the person who decides what is an acceptable line of thinking may not be the person you want making that decision (in your case, a flat-earther).

Should flat-earthers be oppressed because they're morons? I Dunno. Maybe. Maybe not. They're people, and they have rights under a society built on laws.

>>54896696
Depends on what the laws are. Laws are written by people, and they succeed or fail based largely on their correspondence to reality.

>>54896696
>They're occupying land and resources that could be more efficiently used in some other way.
As society progresses, this becomes a non-issue. We today have the level of technology to grow all our food in buildings rather than wasting land on agriculture. As that process becomes refined and cheaper, and as less developed areas of the world get caught up resulting in plummeting birth rates, the planet has more than enough land to sustain anyone until widespread colonization happens.

>>54896759

It can take a long time for laws and societies to crumble. It took almost a century for the Soviet Union to fail, for example.

Various religions, which are not based on correspondence to reality, are still going strong to this day. I doubt they'll just disappear in the near future. There seems to be something about belief beyond the observable that is almost hardwired in humans.

Not that Trek cares. It can wave a magic wand and suddenly religion is a thing of the dark ages.

>>54896929

Well, in Trek that might work, but I highly doubt we'll ever successfully colonize anything beyond Earth. I'll be happy to be proven wrong though.

Pardon me for not taking you at your word about food buildings. It's partially ignorance on the subject, and partially that it would be an enormous undertaking to create the infrastructure for that, and in my country at least, we still haven't repaired and upgraded the bridges, electrical grid, and highway system that badly need attention.

In my county, the electrical grid is a hodgepodge of shit built from the 30s, 60s, and today. My state is in contempt for failing to pay for basic services, like education. The tech might be there, but either the money, or the will, or both is not.

>>54897158
>It took almost a century for the Soviet Union to fail, for example.
It took fifteen years, they were doing rather well in the sixties and seventies. If you ignore the gulags (which were easy to dismiss as western propaganda) it was easy to see why the hippies who visited had such good things to say about it.

>>54897158
>In my county, the electrical grid is a hodgepodge of shit built from the 30s, 60s, and today. My state is in contempt for failing to pay for basic services, like education. The tech might be there, but either the money, or the will, or both is not.
Were you live m80.

>>54897158
TNG/DS9 had plenty of people living somewhat or totally off the grid. Kirk's cabin, Château Picard, various colonists... I don't think the issue ever came up.

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>>54891117
Just imagine how modular a modernized Bison-class spaceframe would be...
>swap the centerline aft nacelle for two contemporary units canted 15° from parallel
>put in a modern warp core that ejects out where the old nacelle was
>move the deflector dish to a pod strapped to the engineering hull opposite the nacelles
voila: all the bits a starship needs are concentrated in the back, letting you strap whatever you want to the front (like a space condominium as shown in the attached pic)

If the Danube is the NEETmobile, is this NEETopia?

>>54897337
You'd be better off with an upgraded modular freighter like the one Travis Mayweather's parents ran.

>>54897512
I prefer skyscraper ships; direction of travel=up provides a failsafe in case the gravity plating fails, all that's necessary then is sustaining 1G acceleration...
Plus, you can land it like a tailsitter: dig a hole for the engineering section first, and bam-instant colony!

>>54897337
>tfw you're too blunt to pierce the heavens

>>54897758
If you want an instant colony or inertial backup gravity, you're still better off attaching your skyscraper ship to a modular freighter. It would just have a screwy passageway connecting it to the rest of the ship.

>>54897890
>>54897512
I'm pretty sure the freighter from ENT (and every other ship ever depicted in canon shows) has airplane-style decks
Federation ships look neat, but from a in-universe engineering standpoint they're just silly...if nothing else, the saucer is a kinda logical progression from the tower-style dildoships since it has the same floorplan, but I fail to see the advantage of moving away from a central spine, modularity, symmetric forces, etc.

>>54895181
I have to say that is one nice photoshop. The head is bit too shiny and bit too big for the collar but otherwise it fits the pic nicely with the lighting and all.

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What do you think the economy of the Star Trek post scarcity is like?

Do you think the Federation can easily afford having most people dick around with entertainment, porn, and eating on home Holodecks and replicators while only the most ambitious people bother with getting smart enough to run the economy and go into space?

>>54898949
They probably implement peer pressure, shame and guilt to get people to get off their asses.

>>54898960
Since when does that ever work. It doesn't even work today and we still don't have sci-fi technology to sustain all the worlds basic needs.

>>54898949
The idea behind Trek is that humans, when all their basic needs are met, will still want to actually do something other than idle lazily, and they'll be free to pursue what they're actually passionate about instead of locking themselves into a job they hate for 50 years just because it pays well.

>>54898949

Well, that basic matter the replicator uses has to come from somewhere...

I know there's someone out there who is going to think I'm serious, and for that person: I don't need (You)s. I was kidding.

>>54897260
And atleast one episode where that off the grid thing was forced up on colonists by their innawoods leader, using tech that the leader said she hated.

It was shitshow of an episode and the conclusion was even worse when they had the chance to make contact with the rest of Federation the colonists decided to turn the bloody machine back on.

>>54899019
Which is sort of ridiculous.

Case in point. Most of the people on 4chan including you. Are they posting here simply as a means to pass the time during lulls in work, or isn't it just more likely they're dicking around with free-time that can already be used to pursue a passion like learning another language or furthering ones own education.

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Im a huge trek fan, and I also have played and collected 40k, Flames of war, Team Yankee and some other stuff I cant remember. Coming from war games what trek games should I check out?

I'm not opposed to space battles, or skirmish games, as I assume there won't be any straight up war games. What would you recommend?

Thanks

>>54899081
You are forgetting that not all people are passionate about selfimprovement, most people in their freetime do what they like and some like shitposting on 4chan or nitpicking about movie mistakes or stuff like that.

>>54899109
PS I've never played a tabletop RPG but if that's the cream of the star trek miniatures game crop I'm willing to try it

>>54898949
Id assume the Federation has extremely complex resource management in place of money- probably the same system we use now with national debt for resources

I'd say a good example is the maquis and how they were neglected by the Federation, leading to rebellion

>>54899129
For example, Jake Sisko who fucked around occasionally dabbling in writing fanfics and during the war, arguing with Weyoun for not letting him publish his blog.

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>>54880879
>like STO, but fun
I wouldn't mind a STO-style single-player game inb4 STO is already a single-player game. Take all the effort put into netcode etc. to fun missions all around. They have all these placeholder systems - they could do something with them. Maybe even have it be semi-open-world - the whole map is available for different missions, with every system being like a town or whatever in a fantasy rpg, with three or four small quests, and the more important systems having more and bigger side quests. Certain areas of space would be inaccessible at first (you aren't authorized to go there/instantly get assaulted by death mobs), but they open up as you progress the main story. Don't know how I'd handle gear progression - that's always been funky in these sorts of games; even if you limit it to just ship gear customization, it would still be weird - I can story-justify sidegrades (phasers to disruptors, etc.), but upgrades are going to be few and far-between - but that isn't nearly as fun.
Anyways, I would mostly keep the main story the same - war with klinks, then romulan fun, then cardie stuff, then DQ, Igonians, etc. Maybe release each thing episodically, as major patches. Klink and Rom (and Cardie, and DQ, whatever - not doing the MMO model allows a lot of flexibility there) beginnings as paid expansions. Obviously combat, especially ground combat, would be changed. Maybe something like ME1 would work. Again, without MMO limitations things can be different, including how missions work.

>>54899286
aside from the corny father/son shit he was probably one of the most realistic characters in trek history. Just a teenager who has no idea wtf he wants to do, finds out he likes writing and ends up not even going to school when he has the chance (iirc)

I think that would be common in the Trek universe. With so much free time for everyone, I'm sure many more great artists and thinkers would be developed. But not everyone has that passion, not everyone has a calling.

>Last stages of the Dominion war
>Cardassians, Breen and Jem Hadar have pulled back to Cardassia
>They know the Combined Fed/Kling/Rom fleet will arrive soon
>The Founder looks more and more like fried chicken every day
>Suddenly warp signatures on sensors
>Before they can confirm what it is, they get an incoming communication on all frequencies
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AyenRCJ_4Ww
What happens next

>>54896399
Shatner kept getting /fit/ between seasons and the gold shirt was supposed to be the uniform.

>>54899391
Borg get transporters that can cut through Starfleet shields from a cloaked ship light years away. Seven is quietly stolen back and Voyager never makesbit home.

>>54899011
This. Just look at the near-NEET that was Jake Sisko.

>>54899391
a deus ex machina (probably some gay shit with picard) saves them all and then siskos wife comes back and cucks him with jeffrey combs

is the heroclix game any good or does it play as bad as it looks

>>54899391
Founder probably orders the Jem Hadar and all their allies to open fire, because Borgs are Solids and can't be trusted.

Borgs would go "huh a shapeshifter species we need to Borgify them ASAP" and fire back.

What it ends up, when the weapons are modulated, Jem Hadar start ramming their ships on the Cube and or do some boarding action. Alot of the Dominion fleet is destoyed and so is the Borg Cube.

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>>54899542

Someone call for me?

>>54899700
Meanwhile Martok is laughing at his beard over the destruction done by the Cube as it makes their job helluva alot easier, while Sisko and Admiral Ross just stare at the diagram showing the destruction done by the Cube.

And then they order their fleets to jump into Cardassia and mop up the remaining ships of the Dominion.

What remains of the Cardassian fleet join the attacking fleet even faster than they did as the Founder had ordered the Cardassians to ram the Cube aswell and executed those crews refusing to do so.

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>>54877783
>>54877441
D-do you guys think it would be fun if... if there were some Spartans on a Star Trek ship? Like, maybe they found some frozen guys left over from the Eugenics wars or something, and they wanted to help the Federation by being a security detail on an exploration vessel?

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>>54875408
>>54875929
>>54876284

Miss me yet?

>>54899801

Sure Duchess.

>>54899795

That's its own untapped market franchise (((they))) can exploit

>>54899801
no one misses coach

>>54899795
they should remake wrath of khan but instead of super soldiers just being ricardo montelban theyre spartans

boy that would have ended early

>>54899742
true yeah Q and his hot wife save the day and then cuck sisko
georgie gets new eyes and reads to kids
whoopie goldberg becomes captain of the enterprise F
Data is still fully functional

>>54897256
Sounds like Illinois.

>>54899011
NEETs tend to die off after a generation.

>>54899563
Fleet Captains or Attack Wing?

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>>54899924
I dunno dude. Let's spin this a little. What if there's more than one type of Eugenic Ubermensch?
So like, a Spartan is your basic super soldier. Incredible when it comes to infantry combat, probably an amazing mind on a strategic level, good at inspiring troopers to follow it... but Khan and his buddies have a little more subtlety. Khan is super strong and heals really fast, for sure, but his real strength is that he can convince a trained officer that she should blow up her ship, have sex with him, and give him the schematics for every weapon the Federation has developed in its history, as well as a list of the locations of all key Federation commanders and their greatest personal fears (not necessarily in that order).
The Spartans (/Space Marines/Jem'hadar/Sardaukar/whoever) are incredible warriors, but if they took over a culture they would run it into the ground in record time fighting awesome wars. Khan's pals are the sorts who could hold their own against the Spartans while manipulating whole cultures into serving them. That's fun right?

>>54900692
>and give him the schematics for every weapon the Federation has developed in its history, as well as a list of the locations of all key Federation commanders and their greatest personal fears (not necessarily in that order).
Kirk did that as greeting present.

>>54900718
Fukken Kirk. A man for all seasons if ever there was one.

>>54896272
>the government believes x is good
>if you don't like that then feel free to fuck off
>if you attempt to interrupt or harm the progress of our people, we'll take away your freedom

I don't mean to sound contrarian or anything, but, isn't that effectively the stance of most western governments already? So how is that an unreasonable stance?

>>54901018
It has been the stance of pretty much all of the goverments from the time organised goverments of any sort came a thing.

Last two are the ones that change depenging of the goverment and they usually change to alot worse version.

>the government believes x is good
>if you don't like that then we will torture you until you change your mind
>if you attempt to interrupt or harm the progress of our people, we'll take away your life.

>>54901018
It helps if you move the date that everything became "perfect" to after space became open.

You want your own nation where you and your people can live as you see fit? Fine. Save up for a colony ship and piss off to the stars and set up your own colony.

>>54901247
And it seems that at least a few groups did, what with the number of lost human colonies the Enterprises trip over.

>>54899455
Best possible ending detected.

>>54899801
I haven't stopped missing Captain Quantum Leap. What a wholesome guy.

>>54901952
Archer should have been Crichton, and Bakula Browder

>>54901952
>>54899801
Archer's okay, but I hate most of the rest of his crew. Dr. Phlox is a rubber-faced Neelix, Englishey is a douche, and everyone else is just constantly mean to each other. The only other character I feel even a little bit bad for is the long-suffering communications officer who literally does not have the tools to do her job but gets shit on when she fails anyway.

>>54902444
I don't know, they were all the wholesome-ish guy throughout the first couple seasons. It was just generally bad writing I think.

>>54902551
Phlox was great, like a less shitty guinan not anything like a neelix. Only one with any experience and tons of deep ethical and philosophical reasoning to do the shit he does. Mostly wants to watch humanity fuck it up on their own.

Englishy had his moments but otherwise eh yeah shitty. Hoshi is like tied at #1 best character with phlox.

>>54902774
Hoshi had three episodes, and one doesn't count as it's a mirror episode

>>54903465
Criminally underused, yeah. She was also best in Mirror universe.

>>54884007
>Tell me Inara wouldn't make a better ships counselor than Troi
Both are among the weaker characters on their respective shows, and Inara needs somebody to fight with to make her at all interesting (which she isn't likely to find on the Enterprise). So I'd imagine that she'd be worse that Troi on TNG. Of course, I can't even wrap my mind around how Troi would work on Firefly.

>>54899109
>>54899137
Star Trek Adventures looks like a pretty neat RPG, but if you're not into those I can't really help.

>>54904785
It's 2d20, which means it's all about meta-currency. I absolutely hated Conan and it sucks that those shitheads use the same system for every licensed RPG they make, even when they couldn't be more different mechanically.

>>54903746
Troi would be the same as before, blithely stating the obvious and getting violated a lot.

They really wrote themselves into a corner when creating Troi because a TV show has to show the emotional content of the story rather than just have someone explain it. So she comes off as redundant because the things she senses are almost always things you can also tell just by looking.

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>>54893750

>>54906196
Founder's tits, just... why?

>>54906196
What is even the point of this.
Like, why even bother with a shuttle bay here? Is that hull essentially just shuttles, a bridge, and like five closets for the crew to sleep in?

>>54906196
HAHAHAHAHAHA wow. I think that's a more accurate representation of the show in general.

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>>54898949
Last Unicorn Games had a stab at trying to make sense of Star Trek's economy... I'm sure it doesn't make a lick of sense.

>>54906450
It's not that bad but what it's missing is that in Star Trek, Bureaucracy-Time is a currency. Sure, everyone can have access to food replicators but what about the rarer industrial replicators? Well there's probly a queue a mile long. Custom recipes in a food replicator? I can't even begin to imagine the amount of padd-paperwork you'll have to go through to get that into the system.

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>>54906196

It's like a B2 fucked the USS Centaur

>>54906523
I read an article somewhere that speculates that the Federation rations everything in terms of energy. A citizen gets more than enough energy to live comfortably and replicate whatever personal goods they'd need, but bigger stuff like starships either requires asking the government for more or participating in the galactic economy and earning some latinum.

It also speculates that Federation credits are like bitcoin - a digital currency created and maintained by independent citizens with no official backing by the government whatsoever. That's how the Federation can get away with saying it doesn't have money.

>>54906926
Technically speaking its true.

If energy is literally the very essence of all goods and services, it no longer functions as fiat currency.

>>54906926
Well about every currency TODAY is already a fiat backed by nothing. They're government backed credit.

>>54907002
Well, the theory is that the Federation government does not endorse or support the Federation credit in any way. It doesn't decide when to mint more and it doesn't track it for the purposes of preventing fraud. The extent that the Federation interacts with the credit at all is probably just enforcement of labor regulations that prevent citizens from charging money for certain kinds of services.

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>>54906311
That would make sense for a search and rescue ship.

>>54883943
We went from the first flying machine, to landing a man on the moon, in 66 years

>>54899351

Isn't that the line of social development that ends up with Eloi and Morlocks though?

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>>54906196

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Obviously, Vulcan wank is pretty much de rigeur in Star Trek, but when has it been done well? I'd say pic is more or less related although the sub-plot where a middle-aged human professor marries his younger Vulcan student is kinda creepy.

>>54901018

You're not being contrarian. My ultimate point is that the government is not always something you agree with, and governments are not always right. They don't even have a right to exist, if they violate the trust of their citizens enough times.

That's why revolutions happen. That's why regimes are ousted. The government is not unimpeachable.

Ultimately my contention is that the United Earth Government probably had to step on people (potentially violently) who didn't agree with its stance on a variety of political, economic, and religious topics. Since we don't know specifics, it's mostly a thought exercise.

What we do know is this:

1.) The Federation (successor government to UEG) has no currency aside from energy and can produce energy in staggering amounts with little apparent effort.
2.) Humans are at the very least agnostic in the 24th century, but potentially atheist.
3.) Humans have "evolved" beyond grief and a number of other essentially human characteristics if you don't like this statement, blame Picard and not me.
4.) They're fond of claiming to be welcoming to other cultures, but then look down on people like the Ferengi, whom they consider backwards, and the Klingons, whom they consider savage. They also have a tendency to tell others that they ultimately "belong with their own kind".

Am I indicting the Federation and UFP humans? Not really. These are observations from the show that stick out to me.

>>54908365
2, 3 and 4 are contradicted as many times as they're supported in the show. It's more like humans are, as we are now, varied in our outlooks and attitudes, so any idea of what humanity "is" in Trek varies from character to character.

>>54908365
>blame Gene and not me
ftfy

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Postan a lewd bridge design.

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Would drink tea whilst commanding the shit out of dat bridge/10

>>54910100
>>54910180
What ship class is this? Excelsior? Definitely that era.

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>>54910237
You got it.

>>54910382
The completely unneeded trip hazard plus railings kinds throw me off here, but it's aesthetic as fuck and as long as they don't route EPS relays through 90% of the bridge consoles I'd still fug it.

>>54910671
Just imagine some wandering diplomatic tour leaning along the railings as they explain some retarded daily business. Captains always got bitches just observing the bridge and not enough chairs to go around.

>>54910692
I know why they are there, and that the footwell thing is mostly decorative, but it bugs me regardless.

>>54910382
Rather nice. Wouldcaptain/10

Actually, on the topic of bridges, does anyone have a view of the Steamrunner's bridge? Is best ship, want to know if it has best bridge.

>>54911258
Nothing canonical, but i would Imagine it looks similar to the Defiant Bridge in a slightly different layout.

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I had no idea someone was making a virtual Enterprise D in unreal.
Damn that shuttle bay is nice to see.

>>54911383
Well give us a link to where it is, faggot. That sounds jive as fuck.

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>>54911258
Best you're getting is a shot from the Strategic Design blueprints. Based on this overhead, it looks similar to, if not the same as, Voyager's. Maybe similar layout but smaller.

>>54911383
I think that screenshot is from a separate, discontinued project.
>http://www.enterprise3dproject.com/
But the currect project, Stage 9 is looking to eventually reach the same level of detail. In it's present state, the team are focusing on mostly pre-existing sets from the ship and, to my knowledge, they haven't completed the main shuttlebay.
>http://stage-9.co.uk/

>>54911430
Stumbled on this video here.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bAM2dEEulBk

http://www.enterprise3dproject.com/

>>54911464
Fucking hell, CBS nuked the 1st one, but he cant say anything on the website or he'll get actually sued.

>>54911445
Looks a little different though very similar which is good as Voyager had an excellent bridge layout. Did Voyager have 2 ready rooms though? I don't recall that being a thing.

>>54908676

Maybe. But I don't recall any examples of religious humans outside of Chakotay, and (according to VOY anyway) he's not human in the sense that aliens uplifted his people. Oops.

>>54908693

Picard didn't say that in-universe? Just because he was Gene's mouthpiece in that episode it somehow doesn't count?

Come on anon.

>>54911597
There were several examples of religious topics brought up in the various shows, but they were normally treated as private personal matters. The Federation and Starfleet themselves are secular by necessity, but there's nothing to suggest that humans as a collective whole are agnostic or atheist.

And Picard as a character is fallible; he presents his own personal view as to what humanity is. He's not necessarily correct. Certainly Sisko would disagree that humanity has moved beyond grief.

>>54896433
Enterprise also makes it pretty clear the Vulcans weren't handing out paradise left and right. They were very reluctant to share technology with the Earth government.

>>54911982
That's not the same as not sharing political and social advice or supplies, just very protective in case they turned all Mirror-y.

>>54911597
I meant that the entire "lol we're past that so it doesn't matter any more" thing was Gene's box, regardless of whoever was the fucking mouthpiece.

>>54912038

I get that it was Gene speaking through Picard, but we have to address the fact that canonically, Picard says those things, and therefore either believes those things or was lying about it.

>>54911798

>Picard is fallible

Agreed. As far as humanity being atheist or agnostic, it's implied rather than straight out said. Gene was very much in favor of an atheist society, but we don't necessarily need to believe that it IS just because that was Gene's sentiment.

>>54912018

Personally I think the Vulcans were right about not giving humans tech too quickly. ENT didn't need to make them seem like buttholes about it though.

>>54885288

Taco Bell utterly fucking adored it for the raw irony: a huge budget marketing drive powered by publicly panning itself that paid off in sales.

>>54899795
Feddie intelligence quietly makes sure they die far from home. Throughout trek humans consistently act fairly ruthlessly when hints of the Bad Old Days pop up.

>>54908365
In all fairness Picard is a HUGE fanboy of Vulcanism.

It's important to look at the Federation as what it is, four clashing cultures trying to make something greater then themselves. The Prime Directive, for example, is incredibly Vulcan in design, as is Picard's "we're OVER this whole 'grief' thing.".

We also know that's a huge lie on Jean Luc's part and there are whole episodes devoted to him dealing with his emotions. He's just very British for a Frenchman.

>>54912105
>Gene was very much in favor of an atheist society
Gene also had a very clearly Catholic chapel aboard the Enterprise, seen in one of the most emotional scenes in one of the most well-known and enjoyed episodes in the original series, so we can't even take his word as gospel when he kept changing it all the time, especially when he was old and senile during the TNG days before he finally died.

Also I'm not sure what episode the "grief" thing is from, would be nice to know it in context.

>>54912105
Well Archer had a personal grudge about it, mad cuz dad. Also vulcans keeping shit secret was kind of their thing since the Andorians, they were still pretty bad with diplomacy.

>>54912155
>and there are whole episodes devoted to him dealing with his emotions.
Gene tried to axe the family episode after Best of Both Worlds.

Berman and Pillar had to go to a lot of effort to ram it through.

>>54912155
I don't get why didn't just make his character English.

>>54912280
And he was wrong, that episode was super important.

>>54912170
I think in general it's better to say that Trek is secular. Human religion is rarely mentioned but other Federation species have religious and spiritual beliefs that are treated as serious and important, even the Ferengi's Divine Treasury had some gravitas to it.

>>54912306
Probly comes off as too imperialistic

>>54912105
>ENT didn't need to make them seem like buttholes about it though.
They acted exactly as every second Vulcan from the previous series do.
>>54912155
>It's important to look at the Federation as what it is, four clashing cultures trying to make something greater then themselves.
Two.
Tellarites and Andorians are irrelevant.

>>54912458
Andorians are pretty relevant in that their existance is like a constant diplomatic pressure on vulcans to play along.
>If you don't give humans weapons technology we will and they'll use it irresponsibly and the galaxy will be totally destabilized
>You better stick around and babysit them

>Oh you just want to go around exploring and not make friends? Well the humans are going to piss somebody off and they're going to come crying for help.
>Andorians will gladly go to war to help our human bros.... and destabilize the galaxy
>You better develop strict diplomatic guidelines for first contact

>>54912202
Yeah, for a people that have clearly established positive alliances with numerous "emotional races" they had a real hard time not being assholes about helping Earth.

>>54912306
I think the original actor they had in mind for Picard was a French Canadian and when Patrick Stewart got the role they didn't bother rewriting the character's backstory.

>>54912609
I think you're combining him with Janeway, who's original actress was French-Canadian before they recast to Mulgrew.

>>54912506
>stop humans from fucking shit up or we'll help them because banter
Seems to be 100% accurate tbqhwyf

>>54912727
can you imagine the shit that humans and andorians would get up to if the vulcans chose to continue their little isolationist science utopia?
>Oh god theres two of them now plus the klingons and our bastard romulan cousins
>This quadrant is fucked.

>>54912506
Maybe Tellarites'll get fleshed out in another series.

>>54912595
ENT explained that as the Vulcans being terrified at our pace of advancement. Wright Brothers to warp drive in 150 years was an unprecedented monkey scramble up the tech tree.

https://www.jwz.org/blog/2016/11/star-trek-mad-science/

>>54912950
I hope so, the other white meat needs representation.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DydIK14AvXI

>>54912155
>We also know that's a huge lie on Jean Luc's part and there are whole episodes devoted to him dealing with his emotions.

Well if you look what sort of family he came from, you can kinda understand why Picard doesn't like showing his emotions all that alot.
And I think it's also part that he thinks that to be good captain in a starship he needs to keep his cool at all times or atleast pretend to do so.

So I looked up the transcripts on chakoteya and the only time I can find Picard talking about grief is when he was talking about the one kid from "The Bonding" who lost his family. He wasn't saying humans have evolved beyond grief, but he was saying the kid needs to come to terms with his grief instead of hiding from it in some kind of fantasy.

Now, it's entirely possible that anon was referring to another episode where the emotion in question was not literally grief, but context is very important when talking about the big philosophical speeches that Picard made.

>>54914919
It's not from The Bonding, it
s from some season one piece of shit.

Guys help me
I'm getting burnt out
The only good episodes I've seen so far are the one with the evil mind clown and the one where the robot steals Belanna to help his race reproduce.

>>54915178
I didn't even think the clown one was that good, but personal preference.

What episode you up to?

>>54915371
The one with Sarah Silverman.

>>54915527
Huh, never realised that was her. It's been awhile.

It was an okay episode if you ignore the whole every time voyager does time travel they create multiple paradoxes.

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>>54915178
Here's what'll happen: if you can get to the end of season 3 (which is where they really find their rut to stick in), suddenly shit happens. 7 of 9 turn up and suddenly there's an actual contrasting character bringing back the dynamic that the maquis assholes were supposed to bring in the first place. You get a whole bunch of solid episodes, with a couple of wobbles, through season 4. Towards the end of that season you start feeling the drop-off again, with still some high peaks, season 5 continues much the same with the garbage piling up alongside a few decent stores, season six and seven then hit you with very little but just real dregs stories as they've clearly not just settled in their rut again but burned out.

Characters like Kim go from being annoying wonderboy to annoying pathetic creep, even the Doctor gets stuck just being an annoying cunt that Janeway really should have slapped down hard about how much of a dickhead he becomes towards the end. They start piling in even more stories about holograms because ...fuck knows. So much of it has got that stink of writers trying to make a point about something but failing to do enough setup (or just fucking it up) to justify the point. And you kinda just have to ride along on some slow but ok character development and interpersonal scenes as your only up points barring one really good episode right near the end, and then you get to hate the finale for being the culmination of all the bullshit trends and just limp-dicking the show to an end.

Such is Voyager.

Many have gone before where you are trying to go now. And if you insist on completing it, don't try watching any of the good parts of other shows to remind yourself why you liked star trek in the first place. The moment you remember having characters you don't hate and plots that were not utter shite, you just make continuing with Voyager more painful.

>>54915582
>And if you insist on completing it, don't try watching any of the good parts of other shows to remind yourself why you liked star trek in the first place. The moment you remember having characters you don't hate and plots that were not utter shite, you just make continuing with Voyager more painful.
I watched Darmok during season 2, won't make that mistake again.

>>54912124
Would you care to elaborate? My trek-lore is pretty surface level. In ToS, they seemed kind of excited to meet Khan rather than horrified. A bit like meeting Alexander the Great or Ghenghis Khan (heh, heh), someone who's very interesting historically but probably a bit terrifying to actually be around.
I know there's a general ban on eugenics/transhumanism among humans in the Federation, but I figure a group of super soldiers from the past who don't seem to be crazy and genuinely want to help the Federation probably wouldn't be treated too poorly. I mean, they let Data be an officer, and iirc he's basically just a weird robot they found with no real idea where he came from at first.

>>54916015
They also permitted Bashir (DS9) to stick around as a doctor but kept an eye on him in case he had plans for anything greater.

And they were excited but still pretty scared. This was a group of super soldiers who killed a whole hell of a lot of people and were dictatorial. But it's like you said, they were excited as well as most anyone would be. As for a group of super-soldiers? No, they would probably round them up and try to keep them underwraps or redirect their passions to mediocre goals like gardening or some shit.

>>54916015
It's just his headcanon, though they did throw Bashirs dad to jail when it was discovered he had augmented his son.Hell Federation even takes care of the augments as it seems large percentage of the augmentations fail and cause all sorts of disabilities. And Bashir didn't seem to get any punishment from being an augment.

>>54916076
In Bashir's case they also had the example of Khan, who took over a Miranda class in its prime with what, 30 people and some Ceti Eels? Imagine Khan with actual 24th century knowledge. It was only because Starfleet recognized they had Bashir by the balls that he wasn't imprisoned for life.