MTG Legacy General

>>54867163
>Will you be playing anything from C17 in your deck?
No, I don't think C17 is adding anything in particular as far as legacy playables go. Thank god though, after TNN wizards seems to have backed off on the overpowered legacy printings in commander products.

>Favorite fringe deck?
Either Mr. Toads Wild Ride or Moggcatcher

>Would banning Ponder and/or Brainstorm improve the format? Which one? Both?
I'd leave the cantrips alone, I want wizards to unban SDT so non blue decks can keep up too.
All banning SDT did was kill several intersting decks while making it even more important to run blue to get access to Brainstorm, Ponder, Gitaxian Probe, etc. Banning the tools that bring consistency just makes the game more luck based than skill based.

>>54867312
>C17
Agreed. I'm fine with Kess popping up here and there, but I'm frankly relieved at the lack of power creep this year, especially considering Eminence.

>Top
I'm surprised the luck vs. skill argument doesn't come up more. Top could be annoying, but it really is a good thing to have in a competitive format. I'm just not sure it's enough. Delver/Czech still just have the most consistency and the best cards. It feels like nonblue fair decks are just one GSZ/Top-esque card away from catching up. The way I see it:
>ban top
What we have now. Fine, but dominated by greedy BUg(x) decks.
>ban cb
Without its card advantage engine, Miracles looks something like it does now. Delver/Czech pile are still great due to consistency and sheer card quality. Some fringe Top decks are less dead.
In the end, I'm not sure it makes enough of a difference.

>C17
Let's talk about Magus of the Mind.

>>54869931
it's trash

>>54870093
but what if you Shallow Grave it back with haste?

>>54870253
why not just get griselbrand or emrakul?

Unban Top
Ban Terminus

File: en_X0rXstXw5X.png (183KB, 265x370px) Image search: [Google]

183KB, 265x370px

>>54867163
Am I crazy for thinking that Mirri counld be a 1 of GSZ target in Maverick? Even juat in the sideboard? I like her.

>>54871585
You could try. She isnt great though. Stats are meh for the cost and the ability is pretty irrelevant in most matches. The usual "dies to removal" applies since 3/4 mana is a whole turn lost to 1 mana.what were you thinking of replacing with her?

>>54871585

I've seen the suggestion floated on most card discussions that she could slot nicely into Maverick, so no, you're not crazy. I'm always leery of legendary creatures, though, because I'm in a karakas-heavy meta.

File: Anger.jpg (36KB, 223x310px) Image search: [Google]

36KB, 223x310px

>>54870442
>cast victimize saccing pic related
>return Magus and Grizzdaddy
>????
>profit

>>54871585
Maybe in the sideboard. She has to untap and swing to get value, which wouldn't be as big a deal if she didn't die to everything ever printed AND get hit by Karakas.

>>54872291
>Need to have already cast anger
>Victimize could have been a cheaper reanimation spell getting griselbrand earlier
>Magus minds desires maybe 4 times, hitting 2 lands a cantrip and a second gris
Reani-storm sounds like something silly and terrible.

>>54871890
I just have an irrational hatred of Young Pyromancer, so a card that hoses is just tickles my pickle. I think I would try her in the side first, since there are a lot of decks that she's juat a 3/2 first strike for free. But I see a lot of lists running Tireless Trackers and Thalia 2.0's, and I feel like Mirri is around that same powerlevel. As far as specifics about what to take out and keep in, I guess that would all be meta dependant. Maverick is definitly not one of the decks that has a set stock list.

>>54872359
That's the fun of it!
>>54872389
That's fair. Come to think of it, having reach might have pushed her into genuine playability. Would've been totally justifiable, too, in terms of flavor and colors. Oh well. Maybe she's still good.

>>54872389
>>54872389
Oh and on that note, I really want to try this stupid ass hammer too. It seems bad, but fun bad. Activating Stoneforge in response to a bolt or push would juat make my day. Also making Thalia a 4/1 indestructable sounds good. Hell a 3/2 indestructable stoneforge would be fine.

File: Hammer+of+Nazahn+%5BC17%5D.jpg (27KB, 223x311px) Image search: [Google]

27KB, 223x311px

>>54872465
Pictures help.

>>54871585
While a one-sided Dueling Grounds sounds powerful, in what matchups would it be needed?

>>54872465
That doesn't even seem too bad. The effect is solid and free equips are nice. I'm just not sure it warrants a slot over the other options. What would you cut for it?

>>54872389
I used to run nic fit so i know about flex GSZ lists. One of the rules is to know how to spot edh jank and Mirri is on the border of edh jank. Thalia 2.0 shuts off fetches and can get through a hidden karakas. Tireless tracker becomes huge and creates card advantage. Mirri stops the 1/1 tokens in a matchup that is totally fine just swinging with its 5/5 or 3/2 flyer or draining for 2. It still begs the question, what are you replacing with it?

>>54872527
Probably a mom, since it kiiiinda fills the same role.

>>54872489
I haven't built Maverick, so I'm not 100% sure about win rates. There are a handful of Affinity and Elves players locally though, and Mirri seems good against them, assuming I'm not dead before I can get her into play.

I just sold out of Turbo Depths because it has just taken over parts of the local meta, some shops have 4 out of 10 players playing it some weeks. I want to build either Maverick or Nic Fit, but I can't decide. Every couple of days I change my mind. Although once I build one picking up what I need for the second will be pretty cheap (as far as legacy goes).

>>54872627
I'm sure in all reality I would start with her in my sideboard, amd either never board her in, or if I did be dead before I got her in play, and end up taking her out.

Thalia 2.0 is definitly better, but she's not GSZable, so I'm not sold. What I like about Maverick is the toolboxyness of it, between GSZ and KOTR. I'm juat looking for more good green creatures, since just jamming all the Thalias makes the deck just feel like a bad D&T a lot of the time.

>>54872684
Nic Fit vs Maverick is a question of just how big are your balls? Got tiny little ladyboy balls? Tiny little maverick aether vial 2/2s. Pendulous Chad Testes®? You want to slam siege rhinos and swagtusks with Nic Fit

>>54872798
But if you want to throw around my big ol' Primeval Titan balls, you gotta go 12-post.

god please someone make the deck work better in this post-top world I lost my best matchup

>>54872918
Just replace the nic fit grave titan with a primeval and toss a dark depths and a thesbian in over the usual utility lands. 12 post lost a ton of its viability when the big deck it preyed on was banned alongside it.

File: 1378500562074.gif (235KB, 280x400px) Image search: [Google]

235KB, 280x400px

>>54872918
Lol, I was building mono green post when top got banned I was going to use Eurekas instead of Show and Tells, it was going to be glorious. But now the deck is dead, and I don't have to buy Candelabras.

>>54872798
I keep messing with Maverick lists on cockatrice, trying to fit all the jank in it I want to play, and I'm having a hard time. Meanwhile even when I lose with Junk Fit I'm having a ball. Maybe that's just the answer right there.

I tried a few Big Fit list, because Brainstorm is the best card in Legacy, and GSZ is the second best, so running both seemes like the way to go. They all just felt worse though. Resolving Jace is boring, but resolving Seige Rhino just makes me laugh.

File: emptythewarrens.png (136KB, 223x311px) Image search: [Google]

136KB, 223x311px

So I was goldfishing the mono red storm deck on cockatrice and decided one game to see how big a storm count I could reach. I was able to reach 58.

So I'd like to propose a silly game if anyone's interested. Simply build a Legacy legal storm deck of any kind and try to reach the biggest storm count possible.

>>54872359
Well tin fins is pretty close to "reani-storm" but it turns out you don't need minds desire when you have a 7/7 flying lifelink yawgmoths bargain

>>54873613
No thanks

>Team Trios event this Saturday, Legacy/Modern/Standard

First time in a long time I've had a chance to play my shitty High Tide deck. I've got my Hawaiian shirt ready and everything.

>>54867163
>Will you be playing anything from C17 in your deck?
No, I don't like trash in my decks.

File: barl get the cage.jpg (15KB, 494x844px) Image search: [Google]

15KB, 494x844px

>>54875574

>>54873613
Solidarity can reach way more than 60 on default and is practically never played anymore.
>Legacy legal storm deck of any kind
You can go infinite in more than one way, none are useful.

>>54875603
EDH is the other way, pal.

>>54875660
It's a joke, bud. Though you're right; nothing in C17 looks great for Legacy.
>>54875482
Candelabras or nah?

>>54875716
That'd be a Nah on the Candelabras unfortunately. Still beyond my budget.

Man I'm kind of thinking of buying some trash Legacy Burn because I'm poor, but there's really no legacy scene in miles and I dunno if I want to play something that not only is gimped but something I'm unsure I'll like after a while.

>>54876325
If there's no Legacy scene, you'll feel terrible after buying the deck. You can always play Legacy on Xmage or mtgo

>>54876325

Buying into a deck is like buying a used car. Either spend no money and get a shitmobile that gets you where you want a decent amount of the time, or save up and get a good, fun car.
That being said, I have no respect for burn players.

>>54876691
It's all I can afford, no need for hate.

>>54876691
>I have no respect for burn players
*tip*

File: 1498615908000.png (9KB, 420x420px) Image search: [Google]

9KB, 420x420px

>>54876691
>That being said I have no respect for Burn players
Holy shit are there really people this autistic that they base their respect for someone on what deck they play in a childrens card game?

Sup legacy general. I've recently come back to legacy after a hiatus (top ban really sucked for me, virtually quit the format.). So what's the meta looking like now? Is it Just storm and delver decks now?

>>54877776
Yeah. Storm, Sneak and Show, Delver, D&T and Lands are all thats viable now. Delvers the best of the bunch though.

>>54876691
>That being said, I have no respect for burn players.
Well burn is a good start. For instance, I have an MTG budget that I try to keep reasonable: I had some red cards left from an old shitty UR deck, and 4 Eidolons. I build Burn in some months and now going on UR Delver. It's a constant investment but I like where it goes...
It's kinda like buying an old shit car and pimping it slowly but surely.

>when you beat a filthy lands player
is there any better feeling?

>>54877966
Huh? Forgot Depths and Infect have returned. No more Counterbalance top to go fuck you to infect.

>>54879273
Infect raped miracles before. If anything infect fell out of favour because one of its best matchups died

>check for Legacy touraments
>nothing

>>54879388
Nah won SCG last legacy tournament and came in second one before that.

The decks are pretty much Sultai/Grixis/Jund decks/Lands/Storm/Depths/Infect and Food chain decks here and there.

File: BloodMoon.jpg (24KB, 223x310px) Image search: [Google]

24KB, 223x310px

>>54877966
Don't forget that pretty much any variant of Moon Stompy is good right now with all the greedy manabases and low curves running around. BM+Chalice+Trinisphere is a pretty good mix of lock pieces right now. The only decks they really struggle against are Sneak & Show, infect, and D&T (depending on subtype and build)

File: Frustrated Baby.jpg (219KB, 1920x1880px) Image search: [Google]

219KB, 1920x1880px

>don't know if I want to play a "fair" or an unfair deck

>>54879040
>not respecting the man willing to throw away any chance of winning against combo just to shit all over delverbabbies

>>54881171
If your new to the format I'd suggest jamming some games on cockatrice/xmage to get a handle on what decks scratch your itch in this format. Try playing:

1. A spell based combo deck (TES/ANT)
2. A Graveyard combo deck (U/B or B/R Reanimator, Tinfins, Dredge)
2. Show and Tell Deck (Omni-Sneak or Omni-Tell)
2. A Tempo deck (Grixis/BUG/UR Delver or Infect)
3. A Midrange deck (Noble BUG, Nicfit, Jund, Shardless, Alluren)
4. A Hatebears deck (D&T, Maverick)
5. A Control Deck (Miracles, Stoneblade variants, Czech Pile, Standstill variants)
6. A Chalice deck (Big Red, Dragon Stompy, Tezzerator, Eldrazi, Stax)

These decks should give you an idea of what you might like to play as an archetype in Legacy and should allow you to focus in on what play styles you want to explore more carefully.

>r&d actual thought fatal push was okay to print

>>54882326
Daddy-Copter at Mythic wasn't enough to sell packs. They needed a glaringly obvious Memedern plant to do it.

File: 1490890315383.gif (1MB, 288x198px) Image search: [Google]

1MB, 288x198px

>>54882326
>Implying that Fatal Push is in anyway a problem in any format

KYS

>>54882390
>unconditional removal in okay for 1 black at instant speed
good one

>>54882415
>the color of killing stuff should be worse at killing stuff than white and red
literally what. i know you're used to every deck being 4c but come on, the color pie still exists.

File: f67334bc58f2468bad15312669d5edaa0afe4c44de4eb56039994a47f00d296b.jpg (78KB, 625x625px) Image search: [Google]

78KB, 625x625px

>>54882415
>Destroy that creature if it has converted mana cost 4 or less instead if a permanent you controlled left the battlefield this turn.
>converted mana cost 4 or less instead if a permanent you controlled left the battlefield this turn.
>if a permanent you controlled left the battlefield this turn.
>unconditional removal

Surely you can't be that retarded anon, That spell is anything but unconditional.

>>54882437
its removes anything 2 and under for free which is like everything
dont act like revolt is hard to fulfill either

>>54882437
im not mad that its black

File: serumpowder.jpg (25KB, 223x310px) Image search: [Google]

25KB, 223x310px

Post Stax spice.

>>54882708
i dont get it

>>54882611
So it's not unconditional, but the conditions are easy to fulfill? Gotcha, your argument has suddenly become compelling.

Let's approach this from a different angle: What formats do you see this spell causing a in problem? Standard was in dire need of decent, instant speed removal, Modern already has Bolt, Path, Decay, Terminate, ect., Legacy has Swords, Bolt, Decay, etc. I don't see how this card causes any problems.

>>54882752
Stax needs an explosive opener (t1 chalice/sphere, usually) but lacks consistency. I've found thatree mulls are crazy valuable.

I asked last thread but didn't get an answer but how viable is punishing maverick currently? I have most of the pieces. Would I be better off with traditional Maverick?

UB Reanimator player here, what would be a good gameplan against ANT? What should I be countering with Force of Will? Anyone know of some creatures that can be reanimated that stops storm decks dead?

>>54882867
iona

>>54882859
Seems fine vs fair decks like delver or the BUgx variants, but weak against most fast combo. BR reanimator, TES, ANT, and GB Depths would be really rough, almost your entire sideboard would be needed to try and shore up these matchups.

if i have tabernacle (probably spelled that wrong) and my opponent draws the top card of their library, do they have to sacrifice all their creatures or do i have to remind them of it? (technically, its their trigger)

>>54883282
You spelled it right. But I'd ask the Judge IRC, not here.

>>54883282
Under the current policy, they get a warning for Missed Trigger, then they will sacrifice all of their creatures.

Source: https://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/missed-trigger-remedies-2008-04-16

Why on earth would anyone who is interested in Legacy play paper instead of online?

>>54883526

Because my local LGS has paper tournies and it's fun talking to other chill legacy players.

>>54883526
the better question is why play paper over proxy

>>54883526
Friendly interaction is a big part of the game for me. Can't get that on MODO.

I went to watch a channel fireball video and is it more or did youtube change their format?

>>54884009
I changed computers, both running firefox, and the layout is totally different and virtually unusable

wtf man

before delver what did blue play as a cheap creature if it did at all

File: 45.jpg (65KB, 312x445px) Image search: [Google]

65KB, 312x445px

>>54884648
Pic related, also Psychatog

But I didn't actually play back then, so if some oldfag wants to correct me, please do

>>54882867
Griselbrand + Iona is usually good enough to get there. I feel like the matchup is very favourable for UB reanimator.

>>54886630

Really? Because I was talking with the ANT guy later and he seemed to think he had the favorable matchup against me, UBReanimator (and it was hard to argue, he went 2-0). The biggest problem was he went off turn two both times, and I can only get an Iona out that fast if I nut open with an Entomb + Reanimate spell in my hand. My opening hand did have Force of Will both times, so I thought I could disrupt the combo by countering Lion's Eye Diamond, but the first time around he just waited one turn and managed to Past In Flames into his combo and the second time he Infernal tutored for his needed pieces. I've only ever played against ANT twice so any advice would be appreciated.

>>54884648
Depends on how far back you go. Just before delver? Nimble mongoose and goyf (some people joked he was actually blue) as you go furthur back the creatyres wernt actually all that cheap, draw go control preferring morphling while more aggressive lists still ran mongoose and some other off color threshhold creatures. If you go way back its psychatog and shadowmage infiltrator (ironically, shadowmage infiltrator was an expensive hard to find creature. So hard to find that psychatog was discovered when he was being used as a proxy. The group doing this found that at least 51% of the time they would rather just play the psychatog) Thats as far back as I know though. Basically mono U never had cheap creatures as we know them so they always splashed if they wanted one

>>54884648
Thox war monk.
Tombstalker.

>>54887967
If they play LED, it means they are prob going to tutor, counter that. Or PiF if they are natural storming into it. Personally ran daze in UB reanimator, so I got edge to daze first led/ritual, which usually was back breaking. At least UP reanimator has disruption, so it should be hard for storm player to actually go off without duress/cabal.

>>54887967
Yeah, UB reanimator should be good vs storm. Your combo is the same speed on average and you have countermagic. Generally countering the tutor is where you want to be, but sometimes you need to counter a ritual when they choke themselves on mana. Iona on black should be game over. Griselbrand drawing a fresh grip of countermagic should be hard to beat as well.

>>54882867
Play the better animator and laugh all the way to the bank at slower combo.

>>54882475
but... youre retarded?
it has both an unconditional and a conditional clause

>>54892695
You can cast it on Prime Time all you want. It's not unconditional if it conditionally does nothing.

>accepted a game against a brazilian on xmage
>hasnt loading in for 10 minutes
how do i get out this shit without getting penalitized

File: wash hands.jpg (140KB, 1920x1080px) Image search: [Google]

140KB, 1920x1080px

>hey there buddy, i play commander

>get turn 1'd back to back
hehehahahahehheahsehaeda

SO FUCKING FUN AND INTERACTIVE

ever have one of those days where you just draw terribly and everyone draws what they need?

>>54894838
I do, every day. Thank god for brainstorm and ponder

>>54894580
B-B-But couldnt you have F-Force of Willed? O-Or mulliganed to it! Yeah see Anon its your fault the formats shit

>>54895171
Now if you'll excuse me I have some NM Mercadian Masques Brainstorms to jerk off on while whispering sweetly "Interaction.."

>>54867163
>tfw still play LED dredge
>cant afford anything else
>still wreck people
feels good mane

>>54894580
Play a few more matches and see how yu feel.

if 2 creatures with jitte fight each other which jitte gets the counters first

>>54896776
Non Active Players

>>54897023
why is there defenders advantage

>>54897335
Because using the combat step is lame

>>54897335
because when multiple players triggers happen at the same time they are added to the stack in ANAP order

>>54897823
lame

File: 20170815_233238.jpg (5MB, 5312x2988px) Image search: [Google]

5MB, 5312x2988px

Rate my meme

so is lsv fucking gaby or what

i thought he was married with a kid

>>54898395
Deck always looked pretty fun for jank night. Played it on paper yet?
>>54899311
Have some decency.

>>54899467
What is that supposed to mean? Im just curious. I remembering him being married with a kid. Did he get divorced and now is banging gaby?

Sure lsv isnt the pinnacle of male attractiveness but bitches get wet over planeswalker points

>>54899515
It's supposed to mean "Have some decency and stop poking into other people's lives when you have no business doing so; you're not a damn tabloid." And yes, LSV is still married. There's no reason to suspect they're anything more than friends, and even if there was, it's neither my place nor yours to speculate.

>>54899650
How do you know im not a tabloid? Are you sure about lsv still being married? Theres a lot of evidence to the contrary

>>54899467
I've played against some friend over skype and cockatrice; got ~20 games at this point. It's been much better that I thought it would be so far. You pretty much can't lose against Burn. D&T, Maverick, and Elves are pretty easy, RIP+Energy Field or Scepter+Chant is really good against them. ANT/TES is pretty even after sideboard, RIP, Ethersworn Cannonist, Meddling Mage, or 3Ball on turn one is great. Sneak and Show is hilarious, Multiple games I led on RIP and then when they Show'd I'd put in Helm and killed them. I Haven't played any games vs. Reanimator decks, I doubt its a bad matchup with 4x RIP main and the ability to cast them turn one. The BUGx decks are the big problem, this deck hates the one-two punch of permission/discard and abrupt decayed. I've been looking for ways to shore up that matchup, I've been thinking about adding a Greater Auramancy or two. I'm definitely cutting the CoP: Red at the very least, It's just overkill against burn, the matchup feels like its 90/10 even before sideboarding.

>>54899650
see take a look at this tweet

https://twitter.com/lsv/status/893704032606330884

even gaby chimes in and confirms it. So i guess that is yes to a divorce and yes to them banging. Gotta feel sad for the kid... Im glad my parents are still together

So now, legacy general, we have to dig deep and find out if gaby is a home wrecker or if lsvs marriage was already falling apart.

Im slightly upset, one because I car about the kid and a kid only having one parent sets the kid up for failure by a considerable margin, and two, I want unlimited access to lsv to critique my gameplay

Speaking of Gaby...Commentators for sports are often former good players that have retired. Why does Gaby get to be a commentator just for knowing LSV?

>>54900114
Because she has a vagina. Never underestimate the power of vagina over thirsty fucks.

How's Abzan in legacy? I wanted to build deadguy ale and Abzan has a direct upgrade path if I ever wanted a 3rd color

>>54900511
Junk deadguy is fun, you get Library, Decay and Tracker. You can play LftL in the sideboard as well and screw over lands.

>>54900114
She's actually not that bad as a color commentator which doesn't require being either Finkel or Einstein.

>>54899745
>I Haven't played any games vs. Reanimator decks, I doubt its a bad matchup with 4x RIP main and the ability to cast them turn one.
I've got a bit of experience against both UB and RB reanimator with Wr Parfait, and it's not as easy as you'd think. They both have interaction to stop your RiPs, and once they figure out what you're on they'll just go for Iona on White ASAP, which is really hard to stop on turn 1 or 2.

>>54901223
Good to know, would you suggest something in the sideboard to improve the matchup? My current sideboard is:

1x 3Ball
1x CoP: Red
1x Propaganda
1x Swords
1x Entreat the Angels
1x Nevermore
1x Powder Keg
1x Pithing Needle
1x Elspeth, Knight Errant
1x Phyrexian Revoker
2x Ethersworn Canonist
3x Meddling Mage

CoP: Red and Entreat are definitely getting cut, CoP: Red is overkill and not needed against Burn, Entreat has never been board in and I don't know what matchup I'd really want it for anyway. Any Suggestions? Also any tech against the BUG decks? Decay is giving me fits, I played a game where they got out from under the RIP+Energy Field lock twice and still manage to kill the Ghostly prison that was holding their team back, it's been a nightmare.

File: legacy staples101.jpg (9KB, 190x265px) Image search: [Google]

9KB, 190x265px

>>54882415
>If a permanent left the field
Woah men i cant imagine how anyone can do that in this format!

I haven't played Magic since I was a little kid with a fat collection of cards specifically between apocalypse and scourge. Back then it was very simple, cheap, and fun.

A new ( and only ) local gaming store just opened up in my small town and is gaining a lot of traction with Magic players. Deciding that it would be fun to get back into the game, more than a decade since I last touched it, I've found out a few nasty things.

First, all of my cards are illegal. They're too old for most formats since they're 7th edition era as opposed to 8th which seems to be the cut off.
Second, cards cost a lot. Special lands seem like a must have and cost preposterous amounts of money a piece. Googling 'budget' decks always brings up things in the 60 and above dollar price range, and those aren't even really 'competitive'.
These two things tie together in the way that the only formats my cards are legal are where it seems people spend a thousand dollars on a deck with ancient, overpowered cards.

Am I flat out wrong? What am I to expect when I visit the local gaming store? Should I just back out right now as this hobby seems to be insanely more expensive than what I remember?

Who's hotter, Akroma or Phage?

>>54902191
Unfortunately, competitive formats are expensive nowadays. You either have to knuckle under and buy into a legacy/modern deck to the tune of $1000+ in order to be generally competitive or accept that you'll play standard at the cost of ~$150-$400/yr. With legacy/modern at least your cards generally won't lose value like standard chaff, but the initial buy in is punishing to say the least. If you want cheap with whatever budget you want, you can play Pauper/EDH/Kitchen Table with friends, but there's no decent competitive scene with any of those options.

Akroma, hand down

File: 9b602cf446ba6ecf1e0c6b68323dcd6361c18dc8ce35121db316cca54f7520cc.jpg (59KB, 640x479px) Image search: [Google]

59KB, 640x479px

>>54902283
Would it then be prudent to purchase one of those brand new upcoming commander 2017 decks? 35-40 bucks is about just enough I would spend for a 100 card set.
Alternatively, should I just settle for friday night drafts? Although 15 dollars a week could quickly add up.

Lastly, standard chaff, if I was to assemble an ordinary aggro deck with cheap, less than optimal cards, just how skewed is the game's current power level? Is it possible to pull off a fun deck with a chance of winning once in a while for cheap, or can I expect to be laughably destroyed?

Good taste.

>>54902417
>purchase one of those brand new upcoming commander 2017 decks?
Commander can be really fun, but the group you play with is the main determining factor. Commander is generally either chill fun with cool people and weird/interesting cards you've never seen or its min/maxed singleton vintage with games ending on turn 3-4 with the same predictable cards/combos with insufferable assholes you hope to never see again.

>friday night drafts
Can be fun if you enjoy drafting, I've found the recent sets to be pretty shallow and get boring to draft after a few time. drafting twice a month for a year is also basically the cost of most current standard decks.

>ordinary aggro deck with cheap, less than optimal cards
I'm no expert on standard, I've got some friends that play it because its regularly available, so I know a little, but not enough to recommend anything. I'd suggest looking through MTGtop8 and seeing what decks are out there and what you might want to brew. Unfortunately the introduction of mythic rarity has made standard even more expensive than it used to be. It's hard to brew on the cheap even in standard.

>>54902417
There's also the option of building a cube with the cards you have. It can be pretty great, you get to have a draftable set that plays exactly how you want it to play and has the mechanics/synergies you enjoy. An Apocalypse/Scourage/7th Ed. cube sounds like tons of fun with all the multicolor stuff in those sets. I'd love to draft a set with cycling, tribal matters, and flashback.

File: received_1640929572618416.jpg (66KB, 1080x607px) Image search: [Google]

66KB, 1080x607px

What's the best way to white border these?

>>54903022
Double sleeve with a white border painted on the inner sleeve.

Best Mountain art that isn't too expensive? Need 20 for Burn, no unsets, Arabian Nights or Beta.

File: tumblr_ogou94jZLy1qia2dho3_1280.jpg (117KB, 1200x900px) Image search: [Google]

117KB, 1200x900px

>>54903299
Kaledesh mountains have become some of my favorites. This one it like seventeen cents, and about fifty cents foil.

File: Snow-covered mountain.jpg (32KB, 223x310px) Image search: [Google]

32KB, 223x310px

>>54903299
Snow-Covered Mountains look great

>>54903022
You really can't, there's no boarder in the first place other then the top and whatever you do it's going to look kinda bad.

Also I'm still annoyed on how iirc you covered up the bottom boarder on M15 cards even though that's not how you're supposed to boarder them (see the Un-Cards like Thopter Pie Network).

>>54903299
C16 by rebecca guay

File: IMG_2449.png (117KB, 223x311px) Image search: [Google]

117KB, 223x311px

>>54903382
The best part of Kaledesh was the basics. They had some neat art.

>>54903819
Yeah I had to make a decision on what I thought would look the best. I stand by my decision. Most people think white borders look shit to begin with though so who cares.

>>54904626
I don't think they're bad, I just don't think that how you applied it to M15 cards, as the Inventions are meant to be Borderless, and the bottom part has to remain black.

>>54904687
It's hard to do anything but straight lines, so the way the border tapers off a la Thopter pie network isn't easy. I'm no artist and my fine motor skills are kind of shit.

>>54903022
sorry friend this isnt the yugioh thread

>>54903022
Dip them into acetone and burn what remains. We must not let garbage card designs roam free.

>>54888533

Wasn't Serendib Efreet a good one?

It's the basis of my UR Delver list in Shandalar.

>>54903299
http://basiclandart.tumblr.com/tagged/mountain is helpful.
You can't go wrong with Walker's C16, Waters' OG RAV, or anything Tempest.

>>54901424
>Good to know, would you suggest something in the sideboard to improve the matchup?
Ensnaring Bridge and Tormod's Crypt are the best cards against them, I think. Bridge gives you a colorless answer to Iona and friends, so you can buy time to resolve an alternate win con (I use Belcher but for you it would be Jace). It's also handy against Show and Tell. Crypt just gives you some tutorable grave interaction for when you're short on mana and need to stop them ASAP (Iona, fast dredge hands).

>Any Suggestions? Also any tech against the BUG decks? Decay is giving me fits, I played a game where they got out from under the RIP+Energy Field lock twice and still manage to kill the Ghostly prison that was holding their team back, it's been a nightmare.
BUG is a tough matchup for sure. Rest in Peace, Blood Moon (or Back to Basics), and Humility are the best lock pieces against them. Setting up the engine should be top priority, though, because it's going to be a total grindfest and you'll want all the card advantage you can get.

Sideboarding, I usually bring in removal, extra threats like planeswalkers, versatile answers (Pithing Needle, Council's Judgment, Pyroblast, etc), and Leyline of Sanctity if I'm running it. I cut anything that won't trade 1 for 1 (Orim's Chant, Isochron Scepter, Ivory Tower, or even Energy Field and Ghostly Prison in your deck).

For your build, cutting Back to Basics and Ghostly Prison to 1 copy each would let you run Humility and another Supreme Verdict. I think you could also replace Journey to Nowhere with another D-Sphere. Then in the sideboard you could replace CoP with Council's Judgment, and Entreat with another 'walker, either a second Jace or Elspeth, or a Gideon, Ally of Zendikar. I would also recommend replacing Powder Keg with an Aura of Silence, and Propaganda with the 4th Verdict.

>>54900605
that sounds pretty nice but why Tracker over Goyfs?

>playing xmage legacy
>some guys playing eldrazi legacy
>play a turn 1 mother of runes
>he plays a turn 2 trinisphere
>wasteland him twice after that
>he quits the match
>go to the lobby
>hes created a new game
>join
>he leaves and creates a new game
>join
>he leaves and creates a new game
>join
>he leaves

>>54907014
is legacy eldrazi considered fair?

>>54907134
depends
I think there's eldrazi taxes
Mud eldrazi
and cloudpost eldrazi

I play 16 post online and if feels more resilient to all matchups

>>54904226
Ended up with these, thanks anon.

>>54907134
Fast mana/sol is by definition unfair.

>>54907014
I've had people do that to me in MTGO tournament practice rooms when I play Modern Ponza.

>>54907690
That has probably more to do with wanting to jam games vs actual decks than any hypothetical mana screw salt.

>>54907455
he was playiung cloudpost eldrazi

>>54907922
Cloudpost is slower but stable
MUD Eldrazi is faster but more unstable

Cloudpost should be able to overcome most mana hate, except storm, omnitell, and delver turn one wasteland 3 times after.

>>54908738
Well I played him again and he left because he thought that "xmage sucked at shuffling" because someone earlier "drew 3 wastelands"

>>54908934
I've been wastelanded and ghost quartered 5 times in a game and won, but different stuff for different decks

>>54909002
>ghost quarter
as eldrazi? did you have basics?

>>54909047
>you have basics?
nope

Thoughts on running 2 Cataclysm is d&t sideboard?

>>54910910
Seems bad. Won't get rid of the cards you want it to.

>>54907613
Happy I could help!

File: legacy decks.jpg (30KB, 220x417px) Image search: [Google]

30KB, 220x417px

What non meme decks am I missing?

>>54911473
>Miracles with Top
>Manaless Dredge
definitely memes, shouldn't be on the list

You should add LED Dredge, Belcher, and TES

Maybe UB or UR Landstill, too.

>>54911473
>Asks for non-meme decks
>has pox

>>54912109
Maybe when top was legal

>>54906555
What matchup is Aura of Silence for? I can't see this deck caring about many artifacts or enchantments.

>>54912195
Honestly it wasn't even good enough when top was legal. I guess you could say it's not a meme deck because it's been around forever and sometimes top8's but you could say the same about cephalid breakfast

>>54913848
if your worst mu get eliminated, you start going up in popularity.

decks that when you play them and lose, you dont have any cards in hand, i think give a negative impression about the deck, but thats just me

>>54911473
UR Delver, BUG Delver, Infect, Noble BUG, TES, Moon Stompy, Dredge, Belcher, Landstill, Punishing Jund, and Maverick. Adding those should pretty much cover all the non-meme deck choices

>>54912736
It's mostly just a Seal of Cleansing that has extra utility against Enchantress, artifact heavy combo decks, and Stax/Big Red. I prefer it over EE/Ratchet Bomb/Keg because it's not symmetrical, it's better at killing CMC 3-4 things and doesn't get shut off by Null Rod.

>>54912736
Makes sense, Chalice on 1/2 could be really annoying against Parfait.

What do you think of Moat or In the Eye of Chaos in the SB? Especially Eye, I've got a copy and would love to jam it in a legacy deck. Both seem like a really good sideboard cards.

File: decks.jpg (43KB, 181x683px) Image search: [Google]

43KB, 181x683px

Okay these are all the decks I got now, what else do I need.

>guy passes on the block step
>damage is dealt
>DUDE WHY COULDNT I PATH TO EXILE BEFORE DAMAGE

I fucking swear that 75% of people play fucking lands on xmage

>>54915060
Might have been an oldfag returning to the game. He might think that damage still uses the stack.

>>54915085
So play Big Red and drink their delicious tears when you turn one Blood Moon them. G/R Lands is basically a bye for Big Red.

>>54915124
>Might have been an oldfag returning to the game. He might think that damage still uses the stack.

How would that change anything?

Is tron considered fast mana?

>>54914095
Moat is almost maindeckable. It shuts down lots of decks and combined with Humility is usually a hard lock. If you're playing Parfait you're probably too poor to buy one, though (or at least, I am).

Eye looks interesting. Against counterspell heavy decks, Trinisphere is usually used to shut down their countermagic, but Eye might be better because it punishes Force and Daze without making it hard for you to cast Chant.

>>54915354
Back to the modern thread

>>54916167
idk i just saw some guy using tron in a legacy game on xmage

>>54914858
Aluren and Food Chain have pretty much pushed Shardless BUG out of the format ever since top was banned. Shardless BUG is just too much of a durdly deck to actually close out games quickly if they don't have a Goyf.
Canadian Theshold is still tier 3

>>54916467
I dunno...I feel like stifle Grixis Delver has become the better pure tempo deck. Granted this comes from only playing Stifle Grixis once is a blue moon, but the deck feels much better than RUG ever did.

File: 19592-hr.jpg (408KB, 745x1040px) Image search: [Google]

408KB, 745x1040px

bump

>>54918400
I wish all the other storm cards were this happy, eg. with Burning Wish instead of demons you could have longing lovers.

A thought experiment:

It's turn 1, your opponent plays lotus petal > dark ritual. Do you FOW or wait til later on in the combo to disrupt? What's your reasoning, and what would you put them on?

>>54919063
I'm not the best player by any means, but I would FOW the payoff to fast mana so they waste more resources.

>>54919063
I would Force 100% of the time. Petal->Dark Ritual will often be followed by Duress/Therapy taking your Force and clearing the way for them to combo off. Leading on the Petal to cast Dark Ritual without playing a land also hints that the hand is one of the "make 'em have it" types, they're probably keeping a risky no-lander that kills on turn one, but falls apart if you have stack based interaction. If you don't Force the Dark Ritual there is probably a 70%+ chance of dying that turn. If you do force you probably get another draw step to find another piece of permission, cast discard spells to strip their hand, or cast permanent based disruption. There is the possibility that forcing the Ritual is incorrect, for instance if they are on TES they could be holding this hand:

2x Petal
2x Dark Ritual
2x LED
1x Infernal Tutor

In TES this hand would set up a natural storm Tendrils kill if you forced the initial Dark Ritual. It would go:

Petal(1,B)->Ritual(2)->Your Force(3)->Petal(4,B)->Ritual(5,BBB)->2x LED(7,BBB)->IT(8, crack LEDS BBBBRRR)->Burning Wish(9,BBBRR)->Tendrils(10,R)

To be fair, that hand is pretty nuts and not very common, I still say you are very likely to be correct Forcing the Dark Ritual vs. waiting.

>>54919368
What if they're playing Reanimator instead of TES?

>>54919766
TES/ANT are the combo decks that I have most experience with, but UB/BR Reanimator isn't going to be casting a Dark Ritual without throwing out something nasty right after it. I'd still Force because they probably have a hand like these if the kept a no-lander (as you would assume from their opening play):
1.) Petal, Dark Ritual, Duress, Entomb, Reanimate, 2x
2.) 2x Petal, Dark Ritual, 2x Entomb, 2x Reanimate
3.) 2x Petal, Dark Ritual, Duress, Faithless Looting, Griselbrand, Reanimate

Reanimator (especially BR) has lots of nutty draws like these that demand countering the first Dark Ritual. The same TES caveat applies here as well, there will be corner cases where countering the Dark Ritual will cause you to lose, but more often than not allowing it to resolve will generally kill you. My general rule is nothing good happens after a turn 1 Dark Ritual.

>>54919368
In your example, it would be better to wait till they play IT and crack LED, literally impossible to come back. The real problem is duress, but even then they should have nut hand to be able to storm off AND duress you, so you probably lost anyway, unless you have another backup. If you force ritual and they have nut hand, they have very high chance to kill you off next turn, because they didn't pay that much resource to hit 10+ goblins for example.

And other problem is this:
>>54919766

So personally, if I had no other backups, I would wait out their combo and hope they don't have duress and they have to tutor for ETW or Warrens.

>70%+ chance of dying that turn
I want to see how you came up to that resolution. Claiming percentage doesn't mean shit, if you don't back it up. Personally not going to bother calculating the percentage of owning a hand that can natural storm AND have a castable duress in the hand, but it's probably not that high.

>>54919974
And to continue. It would be also weird for them to play a single petal and no land, if they can, because it's simply vulnerable to daze. I guess you could bait FoW this way, but jesus what a hand it must be to bait FoW like that.

>>54919974
>In your example, it would be better to wait till they play IT and crack LED
Yep, that's the point. A good percentage of the time it will be correct to counter the ritual, but sometimes you will lose because of it due to not having perfect information.

>And other problem is this: >>54919766
I believe I supplied a pretty good answer to that, see: >>54919906. If a combo deck is casting a Dark Ritual turn one, it means bad things are happening and there is most likely a discard spell following it if it resolves, especially in the case of BR Reanimator where they are playing 8-10 discard spells.

>I want to see how you came up to that resolution. Claiming percentage doesn't mean shit, if you don't back it up.
My source? General experience from playing TES. I've been playing the deck since it was a 5 color storm deck using Gemstone Mines and Silence. Unfortunately my spread sheets that I used to keep track of this sort of thing have been lost to the ages/dead computers. If the storm player is keeping a no land hand it's because it probably beats a turn one Force on the play. there are pretty easy lines for this, for example:

2x Petal or 1x Petal + 1x Crome Mox
2x Dark Ritual or 1x Dark Ritual + 1x Rite of Flame
1x Discard spell
1x Ad Nausem or 1x Empty the warrens
1x Anything (Black or Red card if you have Chrome Mox)

This hand has no lands and is a pretty good example of the no land hands that I would snap keep and beats a single Force easily on the play. Granted this is a probabilistic kill, but AN from 20 life or making 12-14 goblins gives you a pretty good shot at getting it done.

>>54920041
>simply vulnerable to daze
My assumption was the player casting Dark Ritual was on the play as we were given no information about what your plays had been on your turn. The situation obviously changes drastically if they are on the play. The Storm player would be much less likely to keep a naked all in hand like we are discussing if they are on the draw.

>>54920390
>Personally not going to bother calculating the percentage of owning a hand that can natural storm AND have a castable duress

When was that ever a criterion for a keep able hand? I just gave an example of a natural storm kill for shits and giggles, not because it's a common occurrence for TES. I think you'll also see the natural storm kill I laid out contained NO discard spell, it was used to illustrate the issues caused by imperfect information, basically that there is no 100% right answer to this question.

>>54920474
Meant to respond to>>54919974

Finally get to play legacy tonight, been a while cause of work. Any big meta changes since the Top ban?
I'm on DnT, so if there are a lot of elves running around,which would be my guess, I'm not going to have a good time.

>>54920390
I think a fairly large percentage of keepable t1 kill hands don't have protection. You just keep them because yourr pretending to be belcher would argue it's not correct to force the ritual because probability is is your favor of it not being the utter nuts with duress. This is my intuition, but you can calculate the odds of having such argue nutty hand fairly accurately. If you assume the storm player is playing 6 discard, there is only a 54% chance they have a discard spell in a 7 card opener. They then need to have a t1 kill on top of that. Seems like better than 50% for your force to break it up.

>>54920916
does jitte just shit on elves

>>54922831
Sure, but a lot of the time elves already has you dead by the time you can drop the jitte.

>>54922985
containment present also stops the hoof

>>54923384
well a natural order hoof anyway

Does junk exist in legacy?

>>54923839
yeah but its not that popular

>>54923839
Fuck yeah Junk Fit

http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/13-07-17-junk-fit/

Very similar deck just won some New Zealand Eternal Weekend thing.

>>54923874
>>54924039
I was thinking of Goyf/Lili midrange but Nic Fit is also neat

would Grim Flayer Abzan be playable?

>>54924349
http://mtgtop8.com/event?e=16406&d=301318&f=LE

File: america thumbs up.jpg (30KB, 640x640px) Image search: [Google]

30KB, 640x640px

>when you force of will the combo player after they blew all their resources

>>54926024

>When you bait the control player into forcing a redundant part of the combo

File: 1502318522685.jpg (40KB, 600x600px) Image search: [Google]

40KB, 600x600px

>>54919974
>>54921552
So, they way I look at it, TES/ANT generally play 6-7 discard spells and 4 Probes, so that gives us a probability of a discard spell being a given card in the opening hand being given as: y/(x-n), where y is the number of desired cards, x is the size of the deck and n is the number of cards drawn. So for 6 discard spells (with probe reducing the deck size by 4) you get:
1/56+1/55+1/54+1/53+1/52+1/51+1/5=79.3%,
For 7: 92.6%, For 8: 105.8%.

I might have fucked up my math at some point, but >>54919368's numbers seem pretty close as far as cards in the opening hand are concerned if you count probe in the mix for a Storm deck. If your just looking at the odds of the storm deck having a discard spell vs the blue deck having Force+blue card its 73% vs. 40%. The issue here would be having the mix of resources that allow you to cast the turn one discard spell while storming off at the same time without a land drop. Most of the lines in this case are going to involve multiple Petals or Dark Rituals. To be fair, in this situation we are talking about hands that are pretty uncommon, when was the last time any of us kept a no land hand in storm that was capable of killing on turn 1?

>>54927255
Derp, Meant to type 6 instead of 1, Should be:
6/56+6/55+6/54+6/53+6/52+6/51+6/50=79.3%,

>>54927255

I'm the dude who originally posted the question to the thread, I play TES. I was mostly thinking about strong hands that are close to the nuts with a bit of uncertainty to them, something like Dark Rit, LED, rite of flame, tutor/wish, tutor/wish, land, petal, where if they force the right tutor if I want to add naus the natural storm I'm fucked, but can usually bait them and have enough mana left over for a large EtW.

Or slightly different situations where I have too many off colour rituals and only one land, and if they force the petal> Rit I won't have the right mana for this turn and gotta keep digging.


Its just seemed of late that so many people think it's better to wait for a tutor of some sort, and was wondering if I had been playing against bad people or if this line of thinking was so universally held

>>54927255
You did fuck your math up mate. Its a hypergeometric distribution. Probability should be around 56% for 6 discard.

File: 1491352815133.jpg (71KB, 750x714px) Image search: [Google]

71KB, 750x714px

>>54927670
Welp, I tried.

File: Phyrexian-Negator.jpg (63KB, 312x445px) Image search: [Google]

63KB, 312x445px

>>54867163
So, whos sacrificing the permanents with this thing? im confused.

>>54927754
You do as the controller, the source of the damage doesn't matter.

>>54927754
The controller of the Negator. It's a downside. The Obliterator has the upside version.

>>54927804
>>54927819
ohok thanks for explanation

>>54927255
Nigga you should have realized you fucked up your math when you calculated a 108% probability of anything.

So we've got a B&R announcement coming up on the 28th, do you guys predict anything getting the axe? The only card that seems even slightly likely to get banned is DRS being the #1 most played creature and the #4 overall most played card in the format. What do you guys think?

>>54928182
i have my money on them trying to maim/kill GDS with some bans.

>>54928182
source?

>>54867163
>Fat Granny

Alright, which card has the biggest, fattest tits? I'm talking proportionally here, not one of them titties on a giant.

File: TeysaEnvoyofGhosts_DGM_1280x960_Wallpaper.jpg (682KB, 1280x960px) Image search: [Google]

682KB, 1280x960px

>>54928214
Teysa, Envoy of Ghosts. Look at that rack.

File: more_rack_scav.png (869KB, 1000x720px) Image search: [Google]

869KB, 1000x720px

>>54928214
I'm pretty sure to this day that record is still held by Moriok Scavenger. I await the next record breaker with great anticipation, but seeing as mtg is made by a bunch of sjw's, I don't see it happening.

>>54928209
I should note I'm excluding lands from the numbers.
http://www.metamox.com/legacy/
https://www.mtgstocks.com/analytics/mostplayed
https://www.mtggoldfish.com/format-staples/legacy

>>54926800
>When you turn one duress into a combo making every matchup irrelevant

>>54928662
no you idiot, i mean source on the announcement

>>54928973
Nice. You ask an unclear question then insult the guy who tries to answer it. You must be real popular at parties.

>>54928973
WotC literally announces when the next announcement will be every time they make an announcement. It's a question two seconds on google will solve.

>>54929308
Do you really think i was asking for proof that deathrite shaman was the most played creature?

>>54929336
the wizards website is trash

>>54929391
Dunno. People generally don't expect much intelligence or knowledge from somebody that asks one word questions.

>>54929512
>I don't want to expend effort doing something so I'll ask anon to do it instead
fuck off

>>54929525
Yeah im the retarded one when you cant see the fucking obvious

File: foolish-pleb-6320387.png (146KB, 500x507px) Image search: [Google]

146KB, 500x507px

>>54929686
Holy shit anon, I don't know if you could be more of a cunt if you tried.

File: george screaming.gif (3MB, 336x248px) Image search: [Google]

3MB, 336x248px

>>54929838
YOU PEOPLE MADE ME THIS WAY

>>54928182
I see there being a decent chance DRS gets the axe in the next few B&R updates. It's hands down the best creature in the format and is warping the fair decks into BGx to include it.

File: the fins.jpg (532KB, 1800x1200px) Image search: [Google]

532KB, 1800x1200px

sideways row is the proxies lgs allows
sometimes it feels like this deck has no good matchups

>>54932036
what the fuck am i looking at

>>54932139
Looks like Tin Fins

>>54932310
so a meme deck

>>54928462
sad, but so true. that record won't be broken for probably forever and Moriok Scavenger isn't even absurd to begin with, they're just bigger than average, beautiful tits that hardly qualify as 'unrealistic', which is a favourite buzzword people use in this matter. I for one think that it's far more unrealistic that females on todays magic never break an A cup, I mean where's ma diversity wotc?

That said, where's a drawfriend when you need one? Still requesting Moriok Scavenger Paizuri to this very day.

What's the worst card of all time?

>>54936543
My vote goes to Chimney Imp.

>>54898395
Can u still cast the more expensive card on a double card? with scepter or they have changed the rules?

>>54936891
Hard to cast when you cant even imprint

>>54936825
I saw someone get locked out of drawing new cards in EDH with looped chimnew imps. Obviously that makes it good. My choice would be Avizoa.

>>54936543
Sorrow's path

>>54895247
>Have dredge
>Can afford other things
>Don't want to
dredge is life.
Dredge is love.
My G2 hurts.
Stop the hate.

>>54937921
I run a full playset of Nature's Claim in the sb just to try and power through the hate.
Honestly I wouldn't even play Legacy if it weren't for Dredge. It's such a fun deck.

>let me just put the timer on xmage to 30 minutes because im playing splinter twin so if i win it will be a quick 2-0 but if i lose the first game slowly enough, I can "win" the match because my opponent spent more time thinking than me so they will run out of time and ill never have to face going 0-2

holy shit

>>54938538
>Twin
>Lelgacy
Stop.

>>54938565
I didnt say the deck is good

Im just saying I was about to win 2-0 and then time ran out

whats the funnest non combo deck in legacy

>>54938963
Give up on legacy and play aggro-control dredge on vintage.

>>54938996
Controlling the life total amiright?

>>54940241
They can't kill you if they don't have a hand and have zombies lobbed up every hole they have.

>>54938963
moggcatcher stompy

>thespian stage isnt legendary

>>54943359
Thespian just means "actor". I'm sure there's more than one theater in Ravnica.