>setting doesn't have magic

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>>54856376
Setting isn't heavy on the realism

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>>54856429
>setting omits fantasy elements because they aren't realistic enough

>>54856471
So should we keep shit posting, or do you want to have a serious conversation?

>>54856376
>>54856429
Who's more of a fag, the OP or the fag who badly mimics the OP?

>>54856515
(You) are

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>no magic
>characters have to do interesting and exciting things with what they have: wits, training, brute force and power of charm

>magic
>faggot minmaxers can do everything by casting a spell, rest of the party is useless fluff

Fuck off OP

>>54856507
It's too late, the serious discussion has already become a joke.

>>54856803
You have never played Call of Cthulhu have you?

>>54856376
>>54856429
>>54856471
>>54856507
>>54856515
>>54856616
>>54856803
>>54856833
>Setting is played by decent players who I didn't find on 4chan

The best end.

>>54856429
>he thinks realism is objective
>he thinks realism is actually fun
laughinggamedesigners.jpg.gif.7z.ogg

>>54856803
That's mostly a problem with modern editions of DnD

>>54856376
>Setting has magic
>Retard thinks it's just like "muh DEE UN DEE"
>Throws a shitfit when it's toned down and he can't break the game with it.

>>54856852
>few outliers do magic right
Exceptions go to prove the rule

>>54856860
More like the dream end because >decent players

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>>54856376
Magic is only tolerable in a setting when it's unavailable as a reliable tool and only available as a plot device.

Vancian DnD magic? Utter bullshit, get that shit outta my face.
Arbitrary fairytale ritual magic? Now that's the stuff.

>>54856833
I don't think the conversation was ever serious

>>54856871
The phrase the exception to prove the rule actually means that the exception calls the rule into question

>>54856897
I'm not saying it's an -axiom- either.

>>54856914
Not to be a dick, but then what was your point?

>>54856988
To shitpost, but I felt too guilty halfway.

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>>54856376
>Setting has magic, but it's obscure, hard to use, dangerous, limited in scope, and ultimately a plot tool kept out of the players hands.

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>"cyberpunk" setting
>doesn't have elves or orcs

>>54857373
>>Setting has magic, but it's obscure, hard to use, dangerous, limited in scope, and ultimately a plot tool kept out of the players hands.
>but there's also those three intricate imaginary languages I invented just for this beautiful setting

>>54856803
>characters have to do interesting and exciting things with what they have: wits, training, brute force and power of charm

>"I hit him with my sword... from the side!"

>>54856862
This, reality is full of anticlimactic shit like Frederick Barbarossa falling of his horse and drowning; we should emulate it only to the barest necessity.

>>54856871
"Exception tof prove the rule" is a vacuous statement. Exceptions show that it isn't a rule.

>>54857373
>setting has magic, but only in a form that will only ever get used to jerk the GM off

Lame.

>>54858544
This post made me laugh, thanks

There is literally nothing wrong with that. I ran a game where everyone was a pirate during the time of Napolean, and we all had a blast without having people shooting fireballs and flying everywhere.

>>54858744
>I shoot my pistol
>don't mind me while I abandon this combat to reload because I don't feel like getting shot trying to engage in melee

So exciting.

>>54858801
>Not immediately swinging into close combat with a cutlass between your teeth after your pistol shot goes wide
>Or taking out another flintlock that you had stored in your boot
Anon, it's like you don't have the slightest bit of imagination. Playing pirates can be fun without wizard being inexplicably there.

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>setting's magic is bolted-on to mundane physical laws
>setting's magic is dichotomous with science or technology
>setting's magic is described in-setting as "accomplishing the impossible" or something similar

>any of the above where the setting's magic is at all commonly accessible

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>Setting was literally forged by magic
>But everything about the planet's weather patterns, geology, culture, and physics adhere to Earth standards

>>54856873
This is how I like my magic. Either extremely powerful but also difficult to use and is extremely circumstantial / costly if you even can, and mostly limited to ritual magic. Though there are some combat magics, but they have horrendous cost efficiency (2-3 flamethrower type spells and someone specialized in magic is dry, maybe a single explosion could run them out to).

>>54858834
>pirate captain is rumored to know magic
>is actually just scary as heck and is good at taking advantage of coincidence

>>54858834
>and then everyone died of scurvy

Much fun.

Though honestly I just wouldn't play in that period of history because everyone dressed like a dork.

>>54858863
So much of this. Why does every fantasy setting seem to assume naturalistic materialism anywhere that magic doesn't directly touch? There are so many more metaphysical positions to take.

>>54856376
>Setting has Physical "magic" that has to be performed after intense concentration, energetic frantic dancing, or holding intense muscle straining sequence of poses, leaving yourself vulnerable and immobile until the spell has finished.

>>54858939
>implying magic is neither naturalistic nor materialistic

>>54858928
Play as lower class peoples then. The dorkier stuff was mostly courtly fashions I thought.

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>setting doesn't take place inside a giant uterus because everyone's a fucking man-babby

>>54858928
I just had the party eat well rounded meals so scurvy wasn't a problem. And stupid outfits are half the fun. Same with the parrots and peglegs.

>>54858986
>implying magic isn't a violation of the divine order which shaped reality and serves as the basis of the natural law from which all things are judged to be appropriate to nature or otherwise

>modern day setting that has had magic throughout its entire history
>it's exactly the same as real Earth
Superhero settings are often guilty of this. Supers have been around forever and things worked out exactly the same?

>>54859002
That's like, an entire thread's worth of babbies

>>54859117
Alt-history is hard. This is why I typically have the supers only appear around WW2 and ramp up during the Cold War (which I never allow to end in supers settings).

>>54859095
>implying magic is not the normative process of eternal divine self-reflection expressed in a finite temporality

>>54859167
Having history diverge only recently is completely fine. What's dumb is DC and Marvel where aliens, wizards, and mutants have been running around since the beginning of time and everything is mostly the same besides some men in spandex.

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>setting doesn't have the richest people paying high-level adventurers to keep the peasants in line

OP is a massive faggot

>>54858939
Porting the laws of physics is easier than inventing a new set of rules with the same amount of depth or more

>>54859218
>implying man has any business using magic to affect that which is preordained by all that is good

Hubris. Gods make people push rocks up hills or get their livers eaten by birds for this kinda business.

>>54859432
Most people don't know the laws of physics well enough to say they're using those either.

>>54858729
>If the GM isn't sensually masturbating his players, he must be the one masturbating!

>>54859591
Zeus was an asshole. Prometheus did nothing wrong.

I kind of like how Savage Worlds does it. Most magic only lasts long enough for combat. There is the ability to perform rituals, really dark cloak chanting kind of stuff to cast something big, but there is a huge potential drawback to it and it takes time.

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>>54859798
he was a thief.

>>54859765
>GM has a background resource which is solely there to allow him to get away with not explainingredients shit, since players never get to use it
>not wanking

It's no different from an overpowered DMPC.

>>54859798
Zeus was king of the gods, respect the proper order of things.

>>54859933
Well, I certainly didn't vote for him

>>54859852
He copied a fire, he didn't steal it in the sense of taking the original away. Proprietary ownership of intellectual property wasn't a thing until centuries later - legally speaking, he did nothing wrong.

>>54856873
i like how WFRPG did it:
Magic was still really powerfull, but if you abused it you could easily give yourself a mutation, brain damage or summon a chaos deamon ready to fuck your ass
Because Tzeentch is a dick like that

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>>54858978
>Setting has Physical "magic" that has to be performed after intense concentration, energetic frantic dancing, or holding intense muscle straining sequence of poses, leaving yourself vulnerable and immobile until the spell has finished.
>holding intense muscle straining sequence of poses

>>54860514
Been musing over a simplified system for a while but basically yeah its like that.

The only stats that would matter would be:
>Strength (Attack strength + Physical Defence)
>Concentration (Accuracy + Mental Defense)
>Agility (Attack Speed + Dodge)
>Endurance (HP + Regen rate)

Abilities come into three categories that are based on these stats:
>Focus (Str+Con) = Special attacks
>Dancing (Con+Agi) = Debuffs
>Flexing (Str+Agi) = Buffs

All abilties and movements cost endurance. Run out of endurance you're out.

>>54856376

>Only War
>No psykers because it "breaks the realism"

Bitch we're playing a tank crew on a cathedral-sized tank, with 8 foot-tall space marines with fucking tentacle arms ramming into the side of the tank.

I think we could take a step back from that shit

>>54856873
>Vancian DnD magic? Utter bullshit, get that shit outta my face.
>Arbitrary fairytale ritual magic? Now that's the stuff.
One of the goddesses in my setting is a hardcore subscriber to this philosophy, and is willing to flip the proverbial table (ie: the whole setting) to get her way on it.
I need to run a game of Valiant or the like in the future.

>>54858640
Thanks for confirming that magicfags are the worst kind of murderhobo

>>54858843
Name magic that isn't one of these

>>54856376
Magic is too often used as a crutch for poor writing ability.

>>54858640
Or you could use rope. Or lure him into an ambush. Or throw dirt in his eyes, or step on his foot and shove him, or hit him with your shield, or trip him, or grapple him in close proximity, or try to force him to release his sword, or set him up for an ally, or bullrush him. Or use his own armor against him, or try to punch or stab him in an exposed area...

>This setting doesn't have magic
>Next session later we're being attacked by someone with magic

>>54861512
I find it's actually harder to write a setting using magic, because apparently magic solves every fucking problem ever, so you have to ultimately say, "Nah, that doesn't work because of reasons I don't have the time to get into."
>>54861571
Did you ensure he's not actually a tricky little stage magician instead?

>>54861571
>turns out it's a Scooby-Doo game

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>>54856376
>setting lets you power up

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>>54856376
>setting doesn't have bullying

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>>54861694
>not inventing bullying

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>>54861602
if only

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>>54856376
>Setting doesn't have mecha.
>Setting has mecha but they're the walking tank meme.

>>54856376
>setting doesn't have combat
Only time I ever felt like I was losing brain cells playing a game that's all in my head.

>>54864097
>not liking walking tanks
Plebian taste detected

>>54856873
>muh fairytales
at least if enough people do it you won't be able to be contrarian anymore

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>setting doesn't have realistic magic

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>>54857373
>Setting has superscience, but it's obscure, hard to use, dangerous, etc.

I think it makes for something great, fuck the players

>>54864231
If you're going for something that's already idiotic, you might as well have some fun with it.

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>>54864097
There might be some difference between a legged artillery piece and an energy-perfect nuclear spaceplane particle-cannon system

>>54859917
Here's the thing you're failing to understand:

The GM always has that power. Always. GM fiat trumps everything. You don't need to restrict the scope of a characters power to drown them in jizz. You just say you do and there's nothing your players can do to stop you.

So no, restricting magic and magic like abilities is not the same as a DMPC or ego wanking. Stop being retarded.

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>>54856376
Needing fruity hocus pocus to make your setting tolerable is pleb-tier shit. Who needs wizards and castles when you can have lasers and spaceships?

>>54865550
I say "why not both"

But then I look at the garbage mess that is "starfinder"

Thank god I'll always have M&M and Savage Worlds.

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>>54856376
Good.

>shit
Muh grit and realism magic is "rare and dangerous" le your head will explode if you cast a spell wrong xd
>lame
No magic
>good
Magic is occult and ritual or folklore based
>great
Magic is very common and magic shops exist in most towns in cities, Fighters use weeaboo fighting magic to augment their powers
>best
High mythic fantasy with magic users being balanced with fighters in different ways, technically everyone uses magic, regular animals can talk, gods are mortal, you can ascend to god hood through sheer experience and daring

If you don't agree with this, you have shit taste.

Why did you even make this thread?

>>54866121
You sound like you're under 30 years old. Am I correct?

>>54866328

>Don't agree with someone?
>call them young!

Flawless arguement.

>>54856376
>setting doesn't have rum raisin

>>54856376
Eh, I can take it or leave it, I just want it to be consistent. What I hate is low magic settings where all the bad guys are magic users or no magic settings where the DM includes a wizard or something who uses what can only be described as magic.

>>54865542
>the GM always has that power
>I don't understand the basic social contract of the game

Kay. I guess you're cool with railroading and such, but not all schools of GMing focus on masturbating the GM. Some believe that GMs are there primarily to arbitrate, rather than see if they can get a captive audience for their worldbuilding and storytelling.

>>54865550
Sci-fi is mostly full of fruity hocus pocus unless it's hard sci-fi, and then it's just boring.

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>>54867798
>boring
Say that to my face fucker, not online and see what happens.

>>54858801
>>54858834
>not having a dozen multi-barreled flintlocks
Its like you people want to die.

>>54860273
He was a software pirate.

>>54868418
Why do follow his AI rules again?

>>54858590
But thats literally LotR and it's glorious

>>54856860
Pretty much. Also I found out one of my players is regularly on /tg/ and booted him.

Nothing of value was lost.

>>54865519
Yeah, only the latter is fun. The former is the GM poorly trying to rip off Battletech.

>>54867786
I feel like I'm trying to explain arithmetic to a pidgeon here.

Part of that "basic social contract" you mentioned is that players must agree to respect the rules of the setting the GM is running. If part of those rules are that magic is weak, rare, dangerous, and difficult, then the players have agreed to those rules. This isn't railroading or ego stroking. This is a common theme employed by dozens of games outside of D&D. Do you understand now?

>>54871308
You're wasting air, anon. There are people on this board who completely believe that a GM should do nothing but facilitate the goals of the players, acting as a combination referee/babysitter.
Meanwhile, in healthy games, a GM works WITH the players, not FOR the players.

>>54858640
You're right. "I hit him with magic" is much better. Hey, you can even mix it up a little bit: "I hit him with red magic," "I hit her with blue magic," and "I hit them with sparkly magic."

>magic
>I mind control a village of kobolds and have them forge a 10 foot tall suit of solver armour which I then enchant to act independently in order to defeat the vampire bloodhost
>no magic
>I get a bunch of dudes to hit other dudes

>>54871308
There are players who, due to a copious amount of their own asshattery and too much internet, believe that anything the GM does not give to them MUST be set up against them.
These are the kinds of players you commonly see on /tg/, the ones who have no games to play.

>>54868919
They're common sense. If you have a tool, you want that tool to do what you tell it to do without hurting you or breaking. Admittedly you'd probably want the tool to be able to hurt other people, but the first law might have a legal mandate or it might be harder to make it selective instead of general.

>>54868998
lord of the rings has people throwing blasts and fireballs (in the books)

>>54871442
Are you actually claiming that
>I use a series of "I win this encounter" buttons to create a scenario that has no risk to me and took no effort
is more engaging than
>I lead my men against the undead menace, knowing that the battle will be hard and I may well die

>>54871501
Yes. It's much more engaging to sip lemonade and laugh at the plebs while I win everything forever.

>>54871477
It literally doesn't.

>>54871530
I'm guessing you're jealous of all those "Chads" who have had everything you've ever wanted just handed to them.

All those good genetics, beautiful woman, sport cars, luxury flats, beachside properties, cabins on thousands of acres of wild country, and those athletic scholarships. All that wealth, paid time off, and that feeling of being accomplished.

Should of been born a winner kid. You're at fault, you chose to be second class.

>>54871477
>>54871558
Just the one person, actually.

>>54871636
None people.

>>54871584
Kek. Good bait, but last sentence gave it away. Still, solid 7.5/10

>>54871722
"Chad" should have given it away.

>>54856429
Any attempt by a game to mimic reality is just going to end up hilariously off-kilter from reality.

>>54856803
In my experience, the only problems that magic solves are problems that were caused by magic in the first place.

>>54868908
You forgot.
>not employing the young/stupid pirates specifically to reload your collection of pistols in combat so you don't have to stop shooting for a moment

Should my fighter kill himself after failing to grapple a wizard who had no defensive abilities for 5 attacks straight?

>>54871748
I didn't want him to feel bad about it, he'a clearly suffering and needs positive support.

>>54871801
0/10

Too blunt and salty.

>>54869746
>Setting has weebs
>PCs are the only anime club that left high school and still talks about Gundam

>>54858544
Good. Shadowrun is a plague and overly complicated. Not even the designers can settle what the matrix is.

>>54868998
Well, I'm happy somebody got the reference.

>>54872893
The players all agree the Matrix is the cyber embodiment of pure shit.

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>>54856376
Not a problem.

>>54873000
>>54872893
Moving tech out of the 80s aesthetic was a foolish mistake because now they have to parallel modern technology and its progression.

>>54871308
Yes yes, we know you just want captives to listen to your epic story, but some of us are here to play a game and understand that bad GMs deserve to be called on their shit.

Also the GM has no power, the players abide him only so far as he is a participant in the game.

>>54871389
>referee

Not babysitter. The players are a cooperative force, but they have a duty to call bad DMs out. This concept he's listing here is no different from including his magical realm; it's something there strictly to give him enjoyment, regardless of the player's preferences.

>a GM works WITH the players

Which funnily enough, from people like yourself, always seems to mean holding the players captive to listen to his epic stories and expecting the players to have no in game goals of their own, because those might throw that off the rails.

>>54871447
>set against

Oh no, I never claimed that. A DMPC isn't against the players, it's just for the DM. Much like this sounds like a tool for the DM to jerk himself off under the table.

>>54875600
That you must heap suspicion on your GM is a fairly strong sign that you ought to stop reading about games on the internet and go play them irl.
> I never claimed that.
>I just claimed this other thing that is actually not any different in terms of my goal of insinuating that the GM is incompetent with no proof for or against the idea
People say to not get players from /tg/ because many of them think like you and end up unmanageable. You need some license to GM a good game, and players that assume the worst are the ones that kill immersion and ruin the mood you are trying to set.
Reminds me of this guy I was doing an old fashioned dungeon crawl with, and every npc that knew about the place warned the players that people go there and don't come back.
Then the guy complained about how hard it was, and when I told him that everyone of note already said that, responded with "Well, GMs lie!".
Idiot.

>>54875748
The fact you don't carry a note of suspicion towards someone you're giving "power" to shows that you have a fundamentally naive and slavish mindset.

You include magic like this, you're either basically including the weak force and the players have no reason to care about it (a background world detail not worth investigating), or you're including something for the GM to jerk off (assuming the GM feels the need to bring it up on the regular).

>all these assumptions about my character

Look, having no patience for your shit is not the same as being a bad gamer. You pull something like this in a game and I'll politely excuse myself, nothing more.

>>54856376
Long as it isn't Vancian magic, you're doing alright in my book.

>>54876181
>The fact you don't carry a note of suspicion towards someone you're giving "power" to shows that you have a fundamentally naive and slavish mindset.
Anon, tip that fedora harder.
I'm actually giggling at my monitor right now at the smug "I'm so much smarter than you" attitude you are giving off about, when you strip the gloss away, a game of pretend.
I'm not trying to "win", I'm trying to have fun, and realize that part of that fun is letting the GM craft the world. The mindset you bring does not allow the GM to do his job, it directly impedes it, making the game objectively worse for everyone present.
That is why I am making assumptions about your character; when you espouse opinions that absolutely make playing, running, and immersing in the game more difficult, you are the problem and I have the right to call you on it.

>>54876181
that's an odd attitude. would you take that stance if you played in a game set in LotR or aSoIaF? they're not games where players would typically have access to magic, but it exists in the setting. or what if your GM wanted to a run a star wars game where you were playing bounty hunters and smugglers or something rather than jedi? would you excuse yourself even if the game otherwise appealed to you just because magic exists elsewhere in the setting?

>>54869121
Why didn't you boot yourself?

>>54876285
>Anon, tip that fedora harder.

Not an argument.

>I'm actually giggling at my monitor right now at the smug "I'm so much smarter than you" attitude you are giving off about, when you strip the gloss away, a game of pretend.

You're the one who come out swinging with the character attacks. Also of course it's a game of pretend, but as we all know from magical realmers, DMPC users, and power trippers that even a game of pretend can be used as an excuse to subject others to your weaker nature; you should question the GM's attitudes, and you should hold them with a small note of suspicion. You yourself (or someone you're agreeing with) said that you're granting the GM power, so do you grand power to someone without making sure they don't abuse it?

>I'm not trying to "win", I'm trying to have fun, and realize that part of that fun is letting the GM craft the world.

I literally never said the GM couldn't craft the world. Just that including handwavium as a GM only resource is either pointless or wanky, depending how much he waves it in the player's face.

>The mindset you bring does not allow the GM to do his job, it directly impedes it, making the game objectively worse for everyone present.

You do know sandbox gaming is a thing, and it's fucking awesome. Not every game has to mean sitting there as the GM's willing captive while he tells you a story.

>That is why I am making assumptions about your character; when you espouse opinions that absolutely make playing, running, and immersing in the game more difficult, you are the problem and I have the right to call you on it.

Calling a GM on including their magical realm also makes it harder for them to run a game. Expecting anything of your GM and not passively sitting there makes it harder for them to run a game, you fool. GMs absolutely should be held to standards.

>>54876381
I wouldn't play in games from settings meant for assisting the author of a literary or visual work to tell a story, because their environments aren't conducive to gaming. As DM of the rings pointed out, LOTR would be a terrible game, and I'd bet the same would hold true of GRRMs work and Starwars.

>>54865550
>thumbhole grip on a pistol
For what purpose?

>>54876406
Anon, you are trying to wage a power struggle with the GM, and per-emptively assuming, with no proof other than your own bias, that something as mythologically common as "Magic is beyond the ken of mortal men" is some plot against the players, or feel the need to guard against it.
What you are doing is not "holding the GM to standards" it's trying to browbeat the GM. No one in this entire conversation save you have brought up "magical realm", because everyone already knows that's poor etiquette and most stories you hear about it are fake as fuck.
I'm not going to take your sandbox bait, because it actually isn't relevant to the conversation, you are bringing it up to move goalposts, trying to make this about play styles when it's actually about player issues.
You are willfully jumping at shadows, and somehow missed the memo that trust is the foundation of any group that actually survives more than a few months. You are seeking out a reason to disparage the GM and are trying to call it a virtue.

>>54876557
>plot against the players

Strawman. I only said it's a ploy primarily for the GM's enjoyment, which is not a zero-sum game.

>That is why I am making assumptions about your character; when you espouse opinions that absolutely make playing, running, and immersing in the game more difficult

"I wont play in this game if it seems primarily to be for the GM to jack off to his own storytelling and worldbuilding" does not make running a game more difficult, I assure you my presence isn't that important, but I'm flattered.

> most stories you hear about it are fake as fuck.
>everything that contradicts my own naive worldview is fake

I hope you never have to experience the real world.

>I'm not going to take your sandbox bait, because it actually isn't relevant to the conversation, you are bringing it up to move goalposts, trying to make this about play styles when it's actually about player issues.

Except as seen right here >>54871389 the argument is that cooperating with the GM means automatically going along with his storytelling and worldbuilding, having no goals of your own. Playstyle absolutely is a core component of it.

>You are willfully jumping at shadows, and somehow missed the memo that trust is the foundation of any group that actually survives more than a few months. You are seeking out a reason to disparage the GM and are trying to call it a virtue.

All relationships should be carried with a degree of mistrust. You are giving people power over yourself, and only a fool would not do so without maintaining the healthy degree of mistrust required to not wind up paying for it.

>>54876686
>All relationships should be carried with a degree of mistrust
This is where I realize there is no actual debating with you, or at least it is devoid of any real intellectual, or even entertainment, gain for myself.
That, and you are actually insisting that the stories about games on /tg/ are real when even the people who right them admit they are bullshit. I mean, come on, man, do you think someone will swallow that? You have fun with whatever response you are going to write, I'm gonna go to the 40k thread and talk about my new IG models.

>>54856515
They're worth each other.
To be on topic, I'd say it really depends on the players and adventure. If I like to do some noir played straight I will probably go for realism, or at least largely believable system with no to subtle magical undertones. I may ramp it a tiny bit if I go for Cthulhu. Heroics benefit from magic quite much however and power fantasy doesn't need realism at all.
Players may also expect particular thing and may enjoy different settings to different degrees. There's no point in trying to base the session on some political maneuvering and realistic economics when the group you're GMing jsut wanted to journey of adventure, friendship and typical fantasy challenges, with mages, knights and whatnot. Not every trope has to be deconstructed every time, not every stereotype broken.

>>54876789
Your concession is appreciated. Now why don't you go and tell someone your deepest secrets because you don't carry a degree of mistrust towards them like a healthy person?

>>54876804
>Now why don't you go and tell someone your deepest secrets
You're welcome to check /d/ and /trash/ for stuff like that. It's being done, just not on this board since it's not /tg/.
Also, I am not that anon.

>>54876804
You know there's a difference between telling someone your deepest secrets and playing an enjoyable tabletop game with them, right?

>>54877066
You know that anything less than total trust is a degree of mistrust, and automatically entails questioning people's motives right?

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>Setting has magic but it's difficult and time consuming to learn, and dangerous to use

>>54877144
Go to bed Call of Cthulhu.

>>54877165
Make me

>>54877179
I don't have to, you'll vanish when the stars are right and the great old ones return.

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>>54877185
You were lucky now, but next time won't be the same.

>>54867798
>hard sci-fi that includes ships with the power of stars, glassing worlds, and inhuman monstrosities is boring
>Gimme that soft sci-fi where it's all just an analogy for the age of sail and there is no logic behind how anything works other than that's how it worked in the age of sail

Yeah let me know when you get your mom's dildo out of your ass.

>>54877368
>implying any sci-fi that includes that actually stands up to scientific scrutiny, and thus can't be called "hard"
>implying I don't buy my own dildos

>>54877368
>glassing worlds and crafting inhuman monstrosities
>hard sci fi

>>54877414
Fusion power, antimatter, genetic engineering, starfish aliens, et cetera...

Try reading some actual books.

>>54858863
>The only thing similar to Earth in my world is the force of gravity, all other physical characteristics and celestial bodies are different.

>>54877442
>fusion power
>hard sci-fi

Pick one.

>>54877462
I don't remember putting a greater than symbol there, honestly

>>54877442
Yeah, interacting with aliens and using genetics for warfare when drones exist is hard sci fi. Tell me how antimatter bombs or fusion generators aren't soft sci fi?

>>54877442

.... None of these things are actually hard.

>>54877471
Obvious troll.

>>54877484
Genetic engineering is. It's just used for making better corn.

>>54877117
Nobody ever told you to have total trust in everyone you meet senpai, just to stop sperging out about how you can't even trust one of your friends to not be annoying in a friendly game of pretend

>>54877497
Fusion power is a pipe dream.

>>54858863
If it's literally magic then there's no reason it couldn't.

>>54877483
Hard sci-fi is merely obeying the laws of physics, even if you adjust the theories a little.
Fusion and antimatter are real, we haven't even touched on the extreme shit you can do while remaining in the realm of hard sci-fi.

It seems most opponents of hard sci-fi seem more intent on narrowing the definition of hard sci-fi down to nothing rather than actually not liking it. They like everything that is in hard sci-fi, they just want to say 'well then if it's fun it's not hard sci-fi'.

>>54874598
Venture Bros. 1.0

>>54877117
I always thought that it was the other way around. That any more than total distrust is a level of trust.

>>54861489
Ars Magica for one. It just so happens that magic is what peasants call it when you manipulate the laws of Gods creation. It has limits and can't do everything. Granted you can bend the rules a little, but not break them. Also, it's strictly for the Freemasoning wizards. Peasants and even most nobles and kings know shit all about it.

>>54876383
I'm forever GM, duh.

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>>54856376
>Setting isn't cute animal girls

>>54871477
>>54871636
Not even Gandalf uses magic often, and he specifically uses fire magic.

>>54878033
And that's mostly because he carries the ring of Arnor.

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>Setting has best girl

>>54877556
If you adjust the theories at all, you're not obeying the laws of physics.

>>54877786
Depends whether you view trust as active or passive. Going by the actions of children, I think trust is the default state of men, and then we slowly through our lives learn the necessity of distrust.

>>54876437
It looks "cool" and "futuristic".

Why do some people here hate the idea of DMs participating in crafting the story so much?

>>54878691
Considering the fact it intentionally apes the style of impractical retrofuturism, I don't think those are bad reasons.

>>54878772
Because it often winds up with the DM valuing their story more than the player's agency, ultimately requiring that the players sublimate their own drives towards to the fulfillment of this story for the game to effectively function.

If the GM has included characters with sufficiently understood and believable motivations, a story should naturally arise on its own.

>>54878785
I never claimed it was bad :^)

>>54878876
Fair enough. It was an easy enough assumption by the quotation marks.

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>Friend of a friend wants to run a game
>Not combat focused
>No mechs

I'm really just there to cherrypick their players to run my own campaigns and pickup games for when the group inevitably fails.

>>54878012
Which FOTM moe character is this and where can I get more?

>>54879335
It's from Eromanga Sensei and she loses at the end.

>>54878806
It sounds like you've had some pretty bad GMs.

>>54875396
So you are a pigeon after all.

Well, glad that's settled. Have a good night anon.

>>54876433
So I guess you don't play in any established settings either.

Let me guess, you're the type of player who looks for GMs to run a setting that you've built.

>>54877117
>automatically entails questioning people's motives

This is false. I don't have to questions someone's motives to just not give a shit about what they want. And not giving a shit about what they want is not the same as trusting them.

>>54878618
*as we know them

Personally speaking I don't care to spell systems in games. Mostly it's disgustingly overpowered and broken, but even when it isn't having magic follow a clear set of rules needed to be playable robs it of any sense of wonder and mystery.
I like magic to be how people saw it in mythological. Something mysterious and just part of the world but not to understood by mortal men.

>>54880316
Why not just have a magic system that isn't overpowered and also allows for non-strict uses of magic?

>>54880316
>even when it isn't having magic follow a clear set of rules needed to be playable robs it of any sense of wonder and mystery.

Ironically Jack Vance's magic - i.e. the original Vancian magic system - had plenty of wonder and mystery.

>>54861352
I'd actually really like to see this fleshed out more. Hope more ideas come to ya.

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>>54864338
>realistic magic

>>54877368
>ships with the power of stars, glassing worlds, and inhuman monstrosities is boring
>hard scifi

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>>54880602
>realistic magic

>>54880680
>you will never have a domestic catgirl(boy) toy and your own sapient/sentient AI spaceship(girl) that watches jealously as you cuddle together by the cupola.

Why?

>>54856376
You Can't stop me from playing Dogs in the Vineyard and being a rhetorically inconsistent Mormon Preacher

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>>54880602
>>54880680
Nanotech misconstrued as magic by morons who don;t know any better

BOOM!

The setting was post apocalypse all along~

>>54878618
>I don't know the difference between a theory or a law of physics and why one is changeable and the other is not. I don't understand how a theory can be both an absolute fact and still subject to change. My knowledge of science comes from sci-fi and i still don't know the difference between hard and soft sci-fi. I do not read books.

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>>54878304
>>Setting has best girl
>you don't see her until S2

>>54880646
Ok, what do you think hard sci-fi is allowed to have?

>>54882001
>I'm so positively, devastatingly, cripplingly asshurt that someone pointed out that there's no meaningful distinction between hard and soft sci-fi

>>54861524
honest question, what sort of cool status effects and combat maneuvers do you have for martial type stuff?

How many ways could you cut a man, and how would that affect him in terms of mechanics?