WORST PRIMARCH

>>54837122
You know it's not even worth telling you how wrong you are, also Lothar is canonical worst primarch

>>54837157
Go on. Explain how Faghati isnt the worst

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>>54837122
Khan, lion, sangy and lamenter love on this board makes no sense to me.

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>>54837166
>Stayed true to Imperium, despite his two only friends being traitors
>Didn't blindly follow the Emperor
>Didn't hate anybody, actually just kept to himself
>Fabulous boots

>>54837223
Khan was an overly sensitive man child who hated being the outcast yet pretended to like it

>>54837273
You spelled Perturabo wrong, anon.

>>54837166
Lorgar, Russ and Fulgrim exist.

>>54837325
Perturabo was actually useful though

>>54837342
Perturabo was the guy who got upset his attrition rate wasn't high enough, he had his uses, and Dorn did them all better.

>>54837339
>Lorgar
Pretty bad but was at least relevant

>Russ
One of the best. Stop memeing

>Fulgrim
Hands down one of the best before getting possessed by a greater demon.

>>54837368
Fuck off, leman.

>>54837368
Lorgar being relevant doesn't excuse the fact that he was a terrible Primarch who's need to suck up to something bigger then him causes this whole mess.

Russ being a twat isn't a meme. Lion for Life Dog-Fucker.

Admittedly yes, he and his were relatively some of the best in conquest. He still should have recognized that creepy voice wasn't his conscience talking to him.

>>54837122
Likes to go fast.

>>54837396
Leman Russ
>top tier fighter
>über loyal
>actually cared for the Emperor and Imperium
>actually cared for his legion, only primarch to never kill one of his sons
>trusted by the emperor to act without orders to do whats right

>>54837412
>likes the lion
Pleb detected. Non white suspected. Low IQ confirmed. Suspicions of non whitness rising.

>>54837367
Perturabo got upset that his forces weren't passionately committing to the total destruction of enemy forces.

>>54837476
And he fixed this by making them completely bitter about their position, so they could nurse a martyr complex just like daddy.

I'll still take Dorn, thanks.

>>54837448
All these meme words.

Whatever works for you buddy.

>>54837494
This is totally baseless

>>54837507
Much like the rest of your arguments.

You give me half assed accusations, I'll give you half assed replies.

>>54837494
Dorn was cool but his EVERYONE RETURN TO TERRA NOW order fucked so much up. War isnt fought on one front and his insistance on hoarding assets on Terra was retarded. He was a dick to corax and russ but without them sowing discord, Horus could have crushed Terra with his full might.

>tfw I actually like all the Loyalist primarchs and feel some empathy for people who unwittingly got let to being traitors like Magnus. Also feel bad for Curze even though he was a massive edgelord who needed to get WOLVED into submission, Heresy or no

Fuck Lorgar, though, that faggot is responsible for every bad thing in the entire 40k universe

>>54837541
Point to anything that says that Perturabo specifically meant to nurture a sort of martyr complex in his legion. You can't.

>>54837555
Total NL edge lord here, Big E fucked over that legion hard. It was his secret terror police when he needed it but as soon as it got too hard to justify he wanted to sweep them under the rug.

>>54837564
Point to where I said he did it intentionally first.

>>54837603
>secret
Not really, that was the raven guard. They were often hidden ready to strike if a leader didnt become compliant.

>>54837605
>And he fixed this by making them completely bitter about their position, so they could nurse a martyr complex just like daddy

>>54837122
>hates the other legions
Incorrect. He only hated the shit ones.

>but especially the space wolves
Thats a positive not a negative.

>hates the Imperium and the Emperor
Over-stating it, and yet he still fought for the Emperor because it was the right thing to do.

>unlike Leman Russ who actually gives a fuck
Russ canonically ignored the Emperors orders and followed Horus's instead thus destroying Prospero. Despite receiving the Emps orders first and having Valdor there telling him to stop.
If the Khan had been sent instead Magnus would be on Terra and there'd be another legion fighting for the Emperor.

>only fights for the Emperor because he lets him "hunt"
Thats what Primarchs and the legions were supposed to do. Killing humanities enemies is a negative now? You some kind of Xeno-lover?

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>>54837122
fuck off Palantine

>>54837603
>This justifies us being edgy terrorists even though Big E never actually approved our super emo practices
>Lol let's be degenerates and skin innocents for keks

>>54837753
As a product of his decimation, and fixation of gritty siege warfare. Do I need to explain the difference between setting out to do something, and something coming of it unintentionally?

>>54837754
>Despite receiving the Emps orders first
HURR DURR ORDERS CAN NEVER CHANGE

>>54837122
Russ is the most overrated Primarch.

>Hype himself up as the Executioner of the Primarchs
>Can't conclusively win a fight against another Primarch.
>Never even comes close to accomplishing anything during the Heresy, to the point that his underlings have to pretend that saving individual planets from straggling Chaos forces is equal to reaching Terra and making a difference.
>His only friend was Guilliman, who didn't like him.
>Killed himself rather than help rebuild, leaving his legion an isolated oddity when the Imperium most needed him.
>Has sex with wolves

>>54837950
>Russ here are these orders delivered by my right hand man outside the normal chain of command because of their importance and my desire to have them fulfilled
>Sure thing Dad you can trust in me
>Follows Horus's orders instead because he has obviously wanted to kill Magnus since Shrike.
Russ was a faggot and thats the reason why he broke down after Propsero when he found out how easily he got played despite his supposed loyalty.

>>54838063
>>54838076
>>54837754
>thread has nothing to do with Russ
>booty blasted anon cannot help but be upset

>>54838076
Horus legally overrode those orders

If we could switch one legions loyalty with anothers, I probably would have raven guard switch with iron warriors.

>>54838151
I would make the Dark Angels loyal and make the Iron Hands traitor

>>54837430
>Russ
>Top tier fighter
>Loses to Angron
>Loses to Lion
>Loses to Magnus without suicide interference from girlfriends.
>His girlfriends are actual wolves.
>Somehow in the same tier as Sanguinius

Like fuck is Russ top tier. It's debatable whether he's even on Curze's level. When you tally up all the Primarchs that have beaten him, and then all the ones that are more accomplished than him, you'd have to have half the Primarchs in the top tier to justify Russ being in there. He's mid-table at best.

>>54838186
Wew lass nice meme

>>54838171
It would be cool to see The Iron Hands go full traitor after Ferrus went down. Just kinda double down on the Anger and Despair and be all "He Who Fights Monsters"

>>54838115
>thread has nothing to do with Russ
I responded to the OP you fucking retard. Learn to read dog-fucker.

>>54838130
>Horus legally overrode those orders
Russ was ordered by the Emperor. There was noone above him in the chain of command. If the original orders had come from Horus then been changed you'd have point. They werent they came from the Emperor and they were accompanied by Valdor for emphasis and yet Russ still went against the Emperors wishes. This is why the Khan didnt trust Russ and wouldnt help him.

>>54838115
>>thread has nothing to do with Russ

But the threads called WORST PRIMARCH, anon.

>>54838186
The fight with Lion wasn't serious though. Russ got mad at him but eventually just laughed it off which the lion took to punch him square in the jaw. It wasn't a uber-serious fight like with Magnus.

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>>54837122
Postan Khan in the bait thread

>>54838224
Russ started the fight with a punch and the Lion ended it with one. Anything else is secondary to the facts.

This thread is just a Russfag trying to pile hate on better Primarchs, and not even doing a good job at hiding it.

>>54837122
How is this bad?

And he does hate Imperium, but fights for it cuz he knows chaos is much worse. He choose lesser of two evils.

>>54838224
The moment it got serious Russ lost consciousness for 2 days straight. And this was in a fight with a guy that was later beaten by a non-astartes.

I don't know why BL hates Russ, but this is the canon we have now. Russ is a Lorgar-level failure, and Curze can fight three Priamrchs at once.

His legion is certainly the most irrelevant in the Imperium.
My guess is because of his shitty geneseed.

>>54837430
>über loyal
>actually cared for the Emperor and Imperium

Loyal to person who actually has no feelings for him, and who lies and manipulates him all the time.
Well done, Mr. Russ

>>54838209
Horus out ranked the Emperor in matters of war

>>54838276
The Emperor literally kept him and his Legion around so he could throw them at traitors and not have to waste someone good. He exists to blunt uprisings, and he couldn't even do that right.

>>54838276
Guess he shouldve just gone all Magnus or Horus and doomed the species then huh?

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>>54838286

>>54838296
Not really, but blindly following someone, that is not really smart.

>>54838314
Hes not wrong. The Emperor resigned from the Crusade and named Horus in charge.

>>54838276
Hi ADB. how are those crippling daddy issues treating ya?

>>54838254
>BL is shit
Because they started hiring nothing but chaosfag wankers like ADB et al. I mean Russ is at least supposed to have been as stalwart as they come, hence his name being synonymous with loyalty and resiliency a la the eponymous tank.

Also Curze is the pet of ADB and buddies and so he's getting massive power creep as the speshul snowflake of the heresy


This all being said I still think Russ is one of.the worse.loyalist primarchs, but I don't get why there has to be nothing but character assassination of loyalists and full rehabilitation of traitors

>>54837548
Yeah, unfortunately there was a good chance that the Retribution Fleet under Alexis Polux would have been able to kill Perturabo if the order to return hadn't arrived.

Man, Perturabo is such a fuck up. His ambush at the Battle of Phall gets fucked by a no-name Captain. He makes his marines super bitter and hate him so much that he has the most Loyalists amongst the traitors. Almost gets murked by Fulgrim when ascending. Thinks of himself as too good for sorcery and ends up becoming a slave to darkness.

>>54838340
>Hi ADB. how are those crippling daddy issues treating ya?
ADB or not, this is new cannon, Dark Imperium confirms it.

>>54838186
>Loses to Angron

Man what, even Magnus and Lorgar agree that Angron lost that fight. He's blind to tactics and just charges around, which ended up with him cut off and surrounded by Russ and the Wolves.

>>54838241
Chris Wraight's Khan is the best. Just delivering sick burns all day to Fulgrim and Mortarion.

>>54837122
That's not Magnus though
>Secretly practicing true dark arts and keeping knowledge of that on prospero
>Disrespecting the Emperor's direct command
>Turning the blind eye to his brothers warnings
>Holier than thou
>Single handedly doomed the empire and destroyed the Emperor's dream out of a tantrum
>Forced the Emperor into remain sit down on the throne
I mean, memes aside Magnus prevented the Emperor from being active and command the war effort himself

>>54838329
>The Emperor resigned from the Crusade and named Horus in charge.
Except he expressly ordered Russ. He went around Horus and ordered Russ directly. Saying that Horus's orders are more valid than the direct orders of the Emperor? Delusional.

>>54838395
Angron would have died after killing a Russ. He won the fight between them, and everyone forgets that The World Eaters were still killing more Wolves faster.

>>54838369
>Dark Imperium
>Anything but shitty fanfic spearheaded by ADB and fellow chaoswank losers

>>54838395
This. Russ even admits when he loses like when the AL got the jump on him at Abrexxes yet he never claimed that Angron won. Angron is as unreliable a narroriator as they come

>>54838428
How you can manage to post with your head that far up your own ass is miraculous.

>>54838415
Again >implying orders can't change

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>>54837412
>Russ being a twat isn't a meme. Lion for Life Dog-Fucker.
>Using memes as an argument

>>54838436
Hi Gee Dubs
Just so you know your advancement of the plot is great, it's good to know somebody is finally saying that Dadd- I mean, The Emperor is a HUGE ASSHOLE. Better get out those skull t-shirts, piercings, and guyliner!

>>54838449
Denial this powerful should be harnessed in some meaningful fashion.
Russ admits himself that he was duped and used by Horus and he wasnt followingthe Emperors wishes. Why can Russ-fags admit it?

>>54838485
Of course he was duped you idiot, but there was no reason at the time to doubt the orders from Horus

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>>54838453
Brainlets are just jelly that Russ is the best Primarch so they try to meme him down

>>54838457
Hey angry consumer, feel free to keep feeding us your hitter dollars and the going back to your armchairs to complain like you are entitled to write the canon for yourself.

>>54838494
>Russ do this
>Ok Dad
>Wait Russ dont do what the Emperor said do this instead
>Ok Horus
>Wait... Dad why are you upset?
Really surprising stuff.

>>54838242
I know dangles are fags but dear heavens you don't have to choke on dicks and head cannon anon.

>>54838550
1. Horus was allowed to ammend the orders as he saw fit. Such was the right of the warmaster
2. The Emperor wasnt mad at Russ, in fact he said Russ did what needed to be done to Malcador in Vengeful Spirit
3. Valdor in Scars feels the same way, Magnus and his rabble needed to be put down.

>>54838551
>head cannon anon.
Are you denying that the Lion walked away whilst Russ was left comatose for 2 days? Are you denying that Russ start the fight with a punch and that the Lion ended it with one? Do you consider facts as headcanon?

>>54837430
Dumb as shit.
Encouraged his legion to be a bunch of hypocrites who claim not to use librarians, but do. Because of this, they openly fetishize Chaos, without even the training a proper psyker would get because they refuse to believe he is one.
Most famous accomplishment was team-killing the Thousand Sons (thus creating the enemy that would damn his homeworld), in no small part because he hated Magnus and in no small part because of point one. Russ is a moron.
Was snookered by the Emperor when they first met. Empy allowed Russ to get bloated and drunk before their fight, and Leman probably didn't even wait half an hour after eating before volunteering to have dad whoop his ass.

Yup. Best Primarch ever.

>>54838526
>He thinks I pay GW
GW Pls i can't even write and I'd do a better job than your shitty fanfiction. Its been going downhill since Time of Ending and you know it. Now stop defending your shitty destruction of your own setting

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>>54838511
>Brainlets
Oh you're a transexual son, you had to start there
>Still butthurt because committing treason towards the Imperium by breaking laws punishable by death resulted in being almost killed to a man and your planet burned into ashes
Next time try not being an entitled asshole

>>54838656
Find me a rune priest who fell to Chaos. I'll wait. Even if you can, they are resistant to Chaos because they like the white scars restrain themselves

>>54838705
Can you read? I was supporting the Space Wolves in my post you fag

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>>54838605
>Such was the right of the warmaster
Kek. You delusional retard. You honestly believe that Horus outranked the Emperor. Its beyond delusional.
The Emperor was the head of state. Russ orders carried his signature and noone had the power to overturn them.

>The Emperor wasnt mad at Russ
What is with you and denying facts? You think the Emperor was happy that he had to sacrifice Malcador? Jesus Anon you think Malc was happy? Wow. You dumb, for real.

>Magnus and his rabble needed to be put down.
And this is how I know you're past making sense. Magnus and his legion were loyal. Only when they were betrayed by those who they thought brothers did they turn. inb4 you just yell magnus-fag. As I've shown Khan is my favourite Primarch. Russ and his dogs are just hypocrites who hide behind what ever flimsy tether of achievement they have left whilst the real OG legions were busy holding Terra.

>>54838705
This retard is almost as dumb as Russ.
This is pottery at its finest.

>>54837223
Dont forget partisan haircut, TOPKNOT or death.

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>>54838755
>My work as a soldier is done and now passes to you for I have great tasks to perform in my earthly sanctum. I name you Warmaster and from this day forth all of my armies and generals shall take orders from you as if the words came from mine own mouth.

Kys. Didnt even bother reading the rest of your post since you are obviously a retard.

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>>54838615
>Being able to take a punch when you're unharmed and see it coming
>Not being able to take a sucker punch after being beating the shit out of each other after a week with no rest and out of autism
Yeah you must be proud, too bad the Lion is an even bigger glass jaw by being almost killed by an augmented mortal and still being in a 10,000 year comma

>Lion hit with all his strength send Russ to a two day comma
>Lion is hit by a non Astartes mortal and only powered by the warp and was almost killed and is still in deep comma
Shit quality as a primarch

>>54838828
>Didnt even bother reading the rest of your post since you are obviously a retard.
Of course you did, You just didnt respond to the points I made because you have no defense against them.

>as if the words came from mine own mouth.
So instead of following the direct words from the Emperor he followed those of someone else like I said? K.

>>54838755
Russ was with an entire army of Custodes. If Horus' altering the Emperor's command was so unorthodox how come none of the Custodes did anything?

Horus as Warmaster is specifically stated to speak with the Emeperor's voice in matters of war. When dealing with an extremely dangerous sorcerer, that the Emperor had already promised to destroy at Nicaea, how is it strange that Russ would get a command to kill Magnus instead of risking bringing him to Terra? Magnus at the time was loyal but the rest of his Legion was completely in Tzeecth ball purse and were actively plotting to attack the Fleet on site.

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>>54838869
Keep talking shit Anon. Must be hard to have to keep being faced with the reality that Russ failed at every single thing he did.

>>54838881
Again >implying orders cant change. Holy shit you're dense

>>54838887
Anon....

Valdor specifically tried to stop Russ, that's a major point that was made. They only went in after Russ rushed the planet and bit off more the he could chew.

>>54838898
The only loyal Primarch you can argue was better than Russ is Gulliman

>>54838887
>If Horus' altering the Emperor's command was so unorthodox how come none of the Custodes did anything?
They did. I hope that answers all your questions. Might I suggest instead of posting more you go read the fluff?

>>54838903
Keep repeating yourself instead of addressing the arguments. I'm sure it'll work eventually.

>>54838929
According to this thread I'd say one could argue any loyalist primarch is better than Russ.

>>54838912
>>54838932
It what fluff did this happen?

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>>54838912
>Russ bit off more than he could chew

How so? He decimated the Thousand Sons. Even the Khan was in awe at the destruction the Wolves enacted.

>>54838898
>Failed at every single thing
>Lion dies at the end of the heresy and his legion proceeds to do shit
>Russ hands down a reunified Imperium to mortals as the Emperor's wishes after a long persecution of heretics during the scouring
Better than being outright detached of the Imperium's needs and persecute their own agenda.

>>54838929
>Russ wasted his legion against another loyalist legion on the orders or the arch-traitor
>Russ returned to Terra then left to go on his own suicidal crusade against Horus
>Russ loses even more of his legion and has to be saved by Corax
>Russ isnt on Terra during the seige
Name one way in which Russ and his shit tier legion actually helped the Emperor or the Imperium during the Horus Heresy?

>>54838947
Forge World Book Inferno.

>>54838972
So why did Russ ignore the Captain General of the Custodes?

>>54838932
You're the one repeating yourself. You have already been BTFO and now are just doubling down on your retardation.

>>54838945
Well people in this thread are retarded. Russ = GOAT

>>54838961
>Russ hands down a reunified Imperium to mortals as the Emperor's wishes after a long persecution of heretics during the scouring
Lol. Russ did nothing of the kind. Guilliman did all the work whilst Russ drank then ran off to the warp like the bitch he is.
What crisis did Russ face when he got back to Fenris? Nothing? Why did he leave then? Maybe because he realized everything he touched turned to shit and everyone would be better off if he stopped making decisions.

>>54838960
The Wolves did alright until the Thousand Sons started cutting loose with their powers. The Sisters of Silence and Custodes are really what tipped the fight in their favour.

Not really a knock against the wolves since magic is bullshit mind you.

>>54838961
Better than being outright detached of the Imperium's needs and persecute their own agenda
Yep killing grey knights and starting shit with the inquisition is certainly good for the imperium. Truly the yiffs are shit.

>>54838971
Having all your forces on Terra is retarded. Russ being off world drew traitors away. You know wars arent just faught in one climatic battle right?

>>54838989
Russ outranked Valdor, and Valdor felt that attacking prospero was the right thing to do. He said so to Malcador and Dorn in Scars.

>>54839018
I've been arguing against Russ this entire time, but I'll stick up for the Wolves as a whole. They are a perfectly fine Legion, albeit a bit high on their own reputation.

>>54838996
>You have already been BTFO
In what world is this true? You just repeat 'orders can be changed' like it means anything when Russ had the Emperor express orders in his hands and his right hand man telling him that it was so.

>>54838972
Name page you faggot, otherwise fuck off.

>>54838205
But at that point, aren't Traitor IH and Traitor IW kinda filling the same niche?

>>54839018
Get a laod of this boot licker

>>54838961
Lion's not dead. He's too busy watching reruns of Friends in the Rock or something, instead of being useful.

>>54839031
>Russ being off world drew traitors away.
Russ being off world drew defenders away. Not that there were many left after Russ's retardation had gotten most of them killed but they still might have helped the more competent legions at least a little during the seige.

>>54839036
See
>>54838828
Now apologize

>>54839005
>Lol. Russ did nothing of the kind. Guilliman did all the work whilst Russ drank then ran off to the warp like the bitch he is.
What the fyck are you talking about? Russ is literally the last to disappear, your fucking autism have no relevance here.

>>54839034
So tell me how that's a good thing? Grey knights are way more important than the yiffs. They are also canonically superior.

>>54838989
Because Russ wanted to kill Magnus. He'd hyped himself up as the Emperors Executioner and had nothing to show for it so went and got himself used to further the aims of chaos because he was weak.

>>54839047
Not an argument, yiff.
Knights are better than your shit furfag friends.

>>54839031
>Valdor felt that attacking prospero was the right thing to do
So they agreed then?

>>54839065
Yeah, no. You're a retard. Russ and Corax were opening more fronts which saved Terra. Meanwhile Lion and Gulliman were finger poppin each others assholes being traitors in Ultramar

Learn2war faggot.

>>54839068
>Ha I'll show him that I dont repeat myself endlessly and dotn adress his argument
>I know I'll link to an earlier post where I didnt address his arguments, attempted to say I didnt even read his posts and then told him to kill himself
>That'll do it
You truly are dense. I'm done with you yiff.

>>54838063
>only friend was Guilliman
His best friend was the Lion you dolt. Fucker went into full dress in black mourning like a custodes after he heard Lion died

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>>54839106
>>54839083
>Grey Knights are better than Space Wolves

Then why did they get BTFO by the Wolves?

>>54839018
>Leaving the inquisition running wild
The Imperium would have already crumble by now
>killing grey knights
Whom had no fucking reason to be on Fenris to begin with and he wasn't the supreme grand master to shit talking Logan Grimmar a chapter master was asking to be axed, any other Captain from other chapter would had being treated equally.

>>54839124
>Meanwhile Lion and Gulliman
Why do Russ-fags always do this? See how this has nothing to do with the topic or point of discussion yet they MUST bring someone else into the argument because there is no actual defense for Russ's actions?
Russ was lying comatose on the ground and was lucky Corax was there to save his ass.

>thread about the Khan
>lion and magnusfags show up
>lion and magnusfags predictibly get BTFO

Every fucking time

>>54839177
>Why do Russ-fags always do this?
Its because they dont know how to argue past
>MUH MAGNUS
>MUH ORDERS
Seriously the Wolves are one of the worst legions and Russ realized it and changed them up before he left. There's a reason 40k wolves are the opposite of the 30k wolves. Because Russ realized he'd been a fucking idiot after reviewing all his mistakes and removed all of the retardation that held his legion back.

>>54839152
The knights didn't get blown out. King yiff killed a captain. Of course his plot armor is greater.
>>54839156
>the imperium would have already crumble by now
Cite your sources

>>54839193
Ain't BTFO'ing of the Lion here friendo, just assblasted furries.
Why must they be so retarded. Russ and Lion got on great fine after they had their hatefuck

>>54839193
Cringe.

>>54839213
The knights lost big time. They, the red hunters and the entire inquisition got rekt by a single chapter. The Space Wolves didnt even fire on them until the Gay Knights violated a parlay. So the space wolves not only won the physical but the moral battle

>>54839193
At least that show that Khan being ignored is a good thing, that is why he is one of the less retarded primarch because every shitty BL autor don't tounch it.

>>54839263
The inquisition were outnumbered.
You also haven't addressed how the wolves acting like subhuman scum is good for the imperium. They are like females acting on emotion rather than logic.

>>54838369
Dark imperium directly lifted the emperor from ADB's works, in short the worst possible source.

>>54839230
It's more /tg/ culture at this point. 2 years of shit posters making "Leave Magnus to Me" threads specifically to get a rise out of Russ, Magnus, and Lion fans makes every single thread where one gets brought up a shit show.

Doesn't help that every new Horus Heresy novel makes every single character progressively more retarded.

>>54839319
>fighting for innocent civilians and loyal soldiers is bad

Nice b8

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>>54838412
The scene where they feign panic and disorder against an approaching Alpha Legion fleet and then just suddenly reveal their ships have been modified to be 90% engine and punch through their formation at speed other Imperial ships can't even dream of was brilliant. Very Mongol.

The image of the always-prepared Alpha Legion floating in space in a disrupted mess, scratching their heads and going "what the fuck just happened" whilst the Khan disappears off into deep space screaming "FUCK YOUUUuuuuu!" it conjured made me smile.

>>54839077
>Russ is literally the last to disappear
And yet he did less than Dorn. Made one successor that feel to Chaos. In everything else he followed Guillimans lead then when he was the last one left instead of helping the Imperium he ran like the bitch he is. Pathetic.

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>>54839319
Even your gay knights thought the Wolves were in the right, also how whas the inquisition outnumbered? They had 2 Chapters plus the Inquisition against a battered SW force that bore the brunt of the fighting on Armageddon

>>54839367
>innocent
Go figure a yifffag has no idea how chaos corruption works.

>>54839468
The civilians were thousands of miles away from the fighting. And im guessing the Woves know how to prevent Chaos corruption since their gene seed is highly resiliant to chaos.

>>54839406
Two knights thought it was better to leave the wolves alone because they saw them as ignorant and willing to start a war over nothing.
They know the yiffs are retarded.

>>54838712
Conjecture, but the entirety of the surviving Wolf Brothers, presumably with any surviving Priests in tow?

>>54839488
By that logic the knights would know even better since they are the most chaos resistant marines.
What are you even doing, nigger?

>>54839354
That's pretty much it yeah, shitposting is all well and good but when it makes a thread devolve like this every time I get a little sad. Has there ever been a civil discussion of the primarchs?
I can't wait to get mad at the changing of the siege of Terra and fall of Caliban. I think it was ADB though that's maybe wrong as I rarely see any other author being discussed these days said that while we think the Lion has been in the rock all this, wouldn't it be a great TWEEEST if he wasn't? Why does that fuck have to want to ruin everything about the HH?

>>54839502
>over nothing

And yet it was the gay knights who escalated the conflict at every stage and still lost

>>54839380
>And yet he did less than Dorn.
Not getting his boys killed out of obstinacy is a plus in my book

>Made one successor that feel to Chaos.
False, wolf brothers disappeared and were victims of the canis helix and died to a man in crio-sleep the last one saved from the Emperor's children and given a proper burial
>In everything else he followed Guillimans lead then when he was the last one left instead of helping the Imperium he ran like the bitch he is.
Every primarch knew Guilliman was a better ruler and highest apptitudes in political affairs, he did de right thing by not stepping in and interfere in the Imperiums rebuild unlike Dorn who almost caused a new civil war because of the codex unlike Russ whom despite reluctant didn't caused that many problems

>Pathetic.
Pretty much but you can improve your flaws anon, I believe in you.

Every primarch is shittier than poor Angron

>>54839539
It was the inquisition.

>>54839526
I don't know what's worse sometimes. Ward and his ultramarine wankfest or ADB and his straight up fetish for chaos and hate for the loyalists

>>54839468
Does anyone? It changes arbitrarily to make these exact scenarios a moral conundrum. The Diasporex all knew what Chaos was and it didn't effect a damn one of them that we see, Getting possessed and then resisting Chaos is exactly what makes the Exorcists good demon hunters, Fulgrim fell cause he had an evil sword, yet both the Ultramarines and Space Wolves Chapter Masters use Weapons tainted by Chaos, not to mention there is an entire group of Grey Knights who use Demon Weapons.

>>54839518
The wolf brothers didnt fall to chaos. They fell to mutation and the need to cannonically get the Wolves down from legion size to really large chapter size following the Codex coming out

>>54839544
>Not getting his boys killed out of obstinacy is a plus in my book
NO he prefered to get them killed out of poor tactical decisions but that besides the point. Even after that Dorn at least managed to scrounge up for more successors than Russ. Thats just embarrassing.

>wolf brothers disappeared
They disappeared when they fell to Chaos taking half the SW fleet with them. Thats just a fact, deny it if you wish but you're wrong.

>Russ whom despite reluctant didn't caused that many problems
Yet whe nguilliman was gone along with all the rest did Russ rise above the hardships and take it upon himself to rule? No. He ran away. Pathetic exemplified.

>>54839518
Wolf brothers didn't joined caos, they suffered problems due the canis helix

>>54839039
Don't be a child, anon.

>>54839570
Yeah grey knights do.

>>54839600
The space wolves tried to make one successor who fell due to mutation, unlike the others who had their successors fall to Chaos which is worse

>>54839544
Um, the surviving Wolf Brothers are out there chaosing it up with various warbands.

>>54839566
UM & GK wank will always be annoying as all hell, but at least Ward didn't declare victory for the Imperium for all time 10,000 years ago and relegate most of the factions to irrelevancy

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>>54839712
Name one engagement were they attacked an imperial institution

>>54839712
Um thats wrong sweetie

>>54839730
Kek

>>54839600
The Space Wolves lack successor cause their Canis Helix mutation given by the Emperor is too volatile to be transferred to non Fenrisians resulting in any successors having extreme rates of Wulfen mutation. The Wolf Brothers died in combat or by execution, with a small minority fleeing into the Warp to avoid that fate. They were attempting to fix this when Magnus fucked them over. They reclaimed the majority of their ships and equipment, and still possess one of the Largest fleets in the Imperium.

Russ is a Barbarian king. He's portrayed as having a descent idea of what he's good at and built for. Ruling the entire Imperium isn't within his skill set like it would have been for Gulliman or an uncorrupted Horus, and beyond that the Emperor wanted humanity to take the reigns, not Primarchs.

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>>54838244
Holy shit this.

>>54839735
Scourging of Makenna VII, with the Red Corsairs, among others.

The Wolf Brothers pages on both the Wikia and Lexicanum affirm that this is a thing.

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>>54839798

>>54839600
>Getting cannon this wrong
Holy shit, you better be a newfag

>>54839809
>A single squad
>10 people at most
Wow anon they sure were a traitor chapter

>>54840079
Anti Russ fags are notoriously retarded

>>54837122
Always thought Khan was a hypocrite. Russ never enjoyed killing, but Khan seems like a real Khornite

>>54839007
>Not really a knock against the wolves since magic is bullshit mind you.

Except the wolves are like the second most magical legion with psyk- I mean rune priests, who are totally not psykers and totes different, yo.

Horus did nothing wrong.

>>54840628
They get their powers from Fenris not deamo- i mean toutleries like the transexual sons

>>54837122
Most of that isn't true though.

Khan didn't hate the Imperium, he just didn't blindly trust that it and the Emperor were 200% the right way, because unlike guys like Russ he actually cared about individual humans. And he was right.

>>54840469
No matter what Russ said, he was a blood knight who slaughtered his brothers. Feigned regret is meaningless.

>>54840765
>>54840766
Again Russ is the only Primarch who didnt murder his own sons. Russ isnt the blood thirsty maniac you meme him to be.

>>54840805
No, he just murdered his brothers and nephews.

>>54840650

TIMES CHANGE

>>54840834
Every single one deserved the smile of his axe, and thats from the Emperors own mouth

>lorgar is the worst and weakest primarch
>but lorgar is responsible for the heresy too thats why he sucks

choose only one

>>54840898
Lorgar got played by Erebus and the mule. He never would accomplish anything on his own

I get upset at make believe stories about burly army men in space. But only if said burly army men aren't my favorite color. Is this the thread I should be in?

>>54838413
It's as much Russ' fault as Magnus' that the Emperor is on the throne. First, Magnus for breaking the barrier and damaging the webway out of ignorance. Then, Russ for trying to murder Magnus instead of dragging him back to sit on the throne as was the Emperor's will, out of ignorance.

>>54840875
Including the one he was supposed to take in alive, I'm sure.

>>54840936

>tfw Kor Phaeron beat Lorgar like a bald stepchild

>>54840943
>>54840950
The Emperors orders were never to bring Fagnus back alive, and again after Horus legally altered the orders and considering the Emperors decree at Nikea... Russ did nothig wrong

>getting this butthurt over fictional demigosd
Why is /tg/ community filled with such massive faggots?

>>54841020
>why are Muslims so pissed off at everyone

>>54841019
>The Emperors orders were never to bring Fagnus back alive
Silly furry, read the lore.

Also, Russ is wrong for being an unthinking retard who doesn't consider his orders.

>>54840692
That's absolute bullshit and you know it

Not even a wolf hater I just feel like it makes for better dramatic irony that they have more in common then they think

Why do people like Russ, again?

>>54841062
Thats the truth though.

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>>54841072
Because he is the most Chad primarch while the Lion is clearly a virgin

>>54837213
Get this weak ass bait off of my goddamn tg

>>54841049
>questioning orders

Thats a capitol offense punishible by death in every military since the dawn of time.

>>54841126
Except when it saves you and your force's asses when it turns out the orders were contradictory or typo'd.

>>54840981
Lorgar actually was his bald stepchild.

>>54841171
1. Leman won. Like big time
2. The orders were not contradictory

>>54841126

>Thats a capitol offense punishible by death in every military since the dawn of time.

That's not only a thing you can do but required, if those orders are in violation of the rules of war of your nation or you know they are based on bad intel/don't line up with the situation.

>>54841229
The others were contradictory. Emps wanted magnus alive. And yes, his actions did fuck up his faction. If Russ had obeyed the Emperor, then Magnus would be on the throne and Emps would've been leading the Imperium all this time.

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>>54841238
>rules of war

>>54841100
No, Guilliman is a Chad.

>>54841275
1. Magnus was already corrupted. Putting him on the Throne would be even worse.
2. The orders werent contradictory. Read the Emperors decree and then consider that Horus legally chamged them as Warmaster while still fitting in the Emperors original decree

>>54841330
Magnus didn't turn into a Daemon until Tzeenth yoinked him, anon. Besides, if dabbling in a little Sorcery corrupted you instantly, then the Emperor would be corrupted too, considering all that power he got from the Chaos Gods.

>>54841330
>MY Primarch is perfect, unlike all those other Primarchs. Furries forever!

>>54841372
He wasnt a demon, but the taint was already sunk deep in him. And the Emperor is too pure and alway had that power. That why all 4 edgelords of the warp had to team up to trybto stop him

>>54841409
>the taint was already sunk deep in him.
Sounds like bullshit you invented to me, anon.

>And the Emperor is too pure and alway had that power.
Seems like you're not acquainted with current lore.

>>54841429
>Sounds like bullshit you invented to me, anon.
Not him but how do you think he lost his eye? Magnus made a deal with the devil long before Prospero got razed

>>54841475
So did the Emperor.

>>54841537
Wrong. Even in ADB's abortion that was MoM the emperor had great powers even as a child.

>>54841582
That doesn't have anything to do with him making a deal with the Chaos Gods.

>>54841084
That doesn't make, any spirit fenris has would have to be warp born and thus daemonic

>>54841610
The emperor never made a deal with them

>>54841612
Wrong. Read the fluff

>>54841636
Ok now we have reached cherry picking levels, people are picking which parts they like from the same works and ignoring the parts that did, you are siting master of mankind, then yes, he made thay fucking deal

>>54841636
See >>54841658

>>54841676
Where in MoM did he make make a deal with them?

>>54841658
What fluff? I thought they were fore shadowing the similarity for the purpose of drama in universe to hilight that we are often most like that which we hate.

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>>54839132

Im with >>54838828 On this after just joining the thread. That should be enough said.
The chain of command had been broken, nothing you say on the matter can overcome this. No "Bu- muh- emp- pow- noth- he- boss", no nothing! The Emperor, big E himself gave express permission that the Warmaster was his voice in times of war, and this my friend was times of war!

And let me put this down so you understand how clear I am on the matter... I fucking hate furfags, and I hate Space Wolves and I HATE RUSS. More on the matter is that I don't care much for Horus or Magnus the same, as I am not a fan boy cunt like most of the consistency of this thread.

So get this

>Dad who have abandoned his post - gives order
>Outranking officer of war - gives new directions

What ordered do you follow if you know nothing more of this matter? If you pick option A, you're bound to be a outcast because you disobeys an order from a superior officer, a Warmaster in control of the entire crusade of the humanity! If you pick option B, you at least have the excuse that you followed your chain of command.

>>54842529
Bad commanders don't consider their orders and think on the ground.

>>54842550
t. a fa/tg/uy who never even managed a shift at Burger King let alone soldiers

>>54837122
Khan is just the most boring primarch with the most boring legion.
The worst one is Horus.
He used to be an even bigger Mary Sue than Girlyman.
Then suddenly he got corrupted like a faggot.
He didn't even create the heresy named after him.

>>54842625
Why are you talking about yourself?

>>54842529
I'm pretty sure if the head of state gives a direct order, particularly if that head of state is the Commander in Chief of the military, saying the general with one more star than you countermanded it is still going to be considered the shittiest excuse ever.

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>>54842677
>/tg/ bantz

>>54842666
>actually sensable and not retarded or snowflaky
>this somehow means boring

>>54840805
He was totally fine with a lot of them getting slaughtered by the alpha legion because they were too caught up in the image he had taken up and reinforced.

>>54838395
Having not read the book how did angron escape that?
Also I am no seeing how it's a win for either party since neither managed to capture or incapacitate the other from what I hear.

>>54842819
Russ was the last one to retreat into the nebula, using his flagship as a target for the alpha legion while the rest escaped.

>>54843060
If Russ were under orders to kill Angron, he wouldnt have but Russ wasnt going to take it that far on his own initiative. Thats a pretty monumentious decision to make and was more than likely forbidden for him to kill Angron

>>54843121
Russ is incapable of making his own decisions, as always.

>>54843121
That seems very in character yeah, thanks for explaining. For all the shit we give Russ he does TRY to follow orders

>>54843153
Why would he kill Angron? That wasnt in his mission objectives

So this thread is what autism looks like, huh

>>54843279
See
>>54839818

>>54843319
Sorry for offending you, sperglord

>>54837412
>creepy voice
As a daemon of slaanesh, I'm sure it was very alluring or deceptive.

>>54843542
>>54843279
There is literally a thread up right now about fucking Tau women

>>54837223
That weird bend in his ankle triggers me

:::Official and Objectively Correct Primarch Worthiness Tier List:::

>Emperor Tier
Sanguinius
>Imperial Regent Tier
Roboute Guilliman
>Warmaster Tier
Lion El'Jonson
Vul'kan
Rogal Dorn
>Kinda Based Tier
Fulgrim
Angron
Perturabo
>Worthless Scum Tier
Magnus
Lorgar
Horus
Alpharius
Mortarion
Jaghatai Khan
Corvus Corax

>>54843751
A-and Konrad?

>>54837367

In the same way that Khan was useful.

>Perturabo: the siege of large, encamped enemies and the guy who would literally sit you the fuck out
>Khan: The guy who would have you cut to ribbons as you try to leave said area

>>54843751
>Sangunius

Stopped reading there

>>54843751
>Horus
>Worthless scum instead of warmaster tier
;-;

>>54837339
Russ main problem was Fenris was a shithole full of retards and to keep them as a recruiting base they had to stay that way so he ended up with Stockholm syndrome

>>54843816
You are just jelly of our angelboi.

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>>54843816
>most beloved primarch
>every one of his brothers respects him even during the heresy
>gives his life to stop horus knowing he was outmatched
How is he not the best primarch again?

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>it's a /tg/ argues about russ and magnus episode

>>54843999
nice trips, but he sort of doomed his legion and their descendants

>>54843751
>Not having a seperate tier below worthless scum for Lorgar

>>54843751
Anyone care to explain whats wrong with horus besides being a traitor? I thought he was pretty cool in the first three books and fluff in general.
I don't reallly buy into the ADB bullshit about horus being a failure compared to abbadon of all people if that what its about <_<

>>54844066
Protecting big papa, there isn't a better ded.

>>54843795
>the siege of large, encamped enemies and the guy who would literally sit you the fuck out
Kek I like him more now, too bad he turned traitor.

>>54843751
>Sanguinius in emperor tier

This is a perfect list for just that reason. Best primarch right there

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>>54838286
LOL No

>>54838960
Didn't Khan abandon lemon grass as he was being attacked by the alpha legion on prospero? I mean yeah Kahn left him to die but leman did just, for all Khan knew, kill his best friend.

>>54839007

Magic was only half the story. The Wolves basically waded into one of the biggest militarized cities in the entire galaxy expecting a curb stomping. Then TS used magic to augment their urban warfare strategy, which isolated the Space Wolves and threatened to annihilate them one group at a top. At that point, Custodes Whatshisname had to save Russ's ass and open a second front himself.

>>54845730

And to add to that, Magnus was still moping in his room while Ahriman took the fight to the Wolves. The Wolves weren't even facing the full might of the TSons and they still approached the verge of a total wipeout. It goes to show just how overkill the Burning of Prospero really was.

>>54837122
The biggest problems with the Khan is that GW has botched his fluff up real bad. Statistically, the 2 least popular legions are White Scars and Iron Hands. Both of them have been extremely neglected by GW.

There's only 3 proper books about the the White Scars, and literally no one ever talks about them. Whilst the books, I hear, are quite good, they still leave a lot to be desired. So of course the Khan is a bit of an underdeveloped character, GW has given him little love.

Hell we know more about the Alpha Legion and now have more books about them, than the White Scars. That's a bit ironic.

Whilst I do agree he's not a very good Primarch, I blame a lot of that to GW.

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>This whole thread

Advice for OP YOU NEED IT.

>>54845898

Thats more to do with Black Library being heavily biased towards Chaos than anything else. GW put White Scars in the spotlight in the Damocles books.

god i hope we see Magnus kill Russ

>>54844853
too bad he's dead

>>54838395
>Russ had to crawl away from Angron and hide behind a LEGION of marines
>Didn't lose the fight
The outcome of the Night of Wolves can be debated since there are multiple takes on what counts as a victory, but Angron did not lose THE fight between him and his brother and Russ did not win it.

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>>54844340
He had a pretty big inferiority complex (wishing he were as awesome as the Angel), for one thing. It arguably cost him a few points in the Heresy, mind you. His insistence that Sanguinius be killed instead of corrupted led even the Ruinous Powers to doubt him, try anyway, and fail, eventually costing them their gains in the Signus Campaign.

>>54848052
>Russ wasn't actually trying to kill Angron
>Angron was all out murder spree and full nails induced rage
>still couldn't kill Russ
Anon please stop, you're just making an ass out of yourself.

>>54845898
both the White Scars and Iron Hands have suffered for years at the hands of little to no lore compared to even the Imperial Fists, Salamanders or hell, even the Raven Guard.

the first blade that strikes is the last blade? Hell yes, give me more ultra-fast melee please.
overwhelming mobile firepower and a relentless assault where ever shot is calculated? never enough of this badassness.

GW has always failed to utilize these.

>>54837122
I'm sorry, your image seems to have had an uploading error as that isn't Mortarion.

>>54841182
Underrated.

>>54844340
To me, it's that he fell for such an obvious point of manipulation. It was revealed to him that Erebus was blatantly manipulating his emotions by pretending to be his long-dead friend, as well as being actively warned away by another Primarch---one of the more level-headed ones, at that---and yet still decided to turn against the Emperor despite all signs pointing to that being a bad idea. Which, granted, could have just been bad writing, but I can't look past it.

Then there's the fact that the second he's changed sides, Horus turns into a Saturday Morning Cartoon Villain in terms of personality and dives head-first into absolute evil bastard, completely unlike what he was before.

>>54839550
You mean the only Primarch who failed to conquer and unite his homeworld? Even sad, broken Curze managed it in a fashion.

>>54838423

Angron would have died before killing Russ.

Angron had no idea he was even surrounded until Russ pointed and said "look around you dummy". Ergo he could have not said anything and just let Angron get shot to pieces. After which the Wolves would perform a fighting withdrawal (which they did end up doing) and move on.

>>54838286
Oh God!

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>>54843780
>d-dad loves us and is totally kinda based tier...I'm not lying to you or myself I promise

I'd argue for him to be kind of based tier. The Dornian Heresy just makes me sad because loyalist night lords are cool as hell.

>>54843751
Legitimately one of the worst tier lists I've ever seen.

>>54851600
Make your own.

>>54851718
On what criteria?

>>54843751
Sang is in his proper spot, others are wrong.

>White Scars are barbarians meme

Signing poetry is LITERALLY a time-honored passtime for them. While the Wolves tell fortune with bones and drink jet fuel

>>54850090
Well, I guess the moment he let Chaos rot to set in in his soul his personality changed greatly, but the initial decision to join Chaos was indeed retarded for someone who is a genius with ages of wisdom behind his belt.

>>54850322
>in a fashion.
What are you talking about? He did achieve an absolute control of his world. Not through love or anything, granted, but he still did achieve hell of a lot more than Failgron.

>>54837368
Yiff in Hell, furfag. Russ is a boring 1 dimensional character that the writers try way to hard to make cool.

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You spelled 'best' wrong

>>54838063
His best friend was the Lion, at least until the gang of special needs hacks that passes for BL authors, and the GW fucktards that re-wrote the HH canon got hold of it.

>>54850090
>>54844340
To add to this, Horus in the books isn't really an active force, after he turns. He's more something that people bounce off in their own plots, or who use as justification. He loses agency in his own story, in the rebellion literally called the Horus Heresy, except from what BL would have you believe, calling it the Lorgarian Heresy is actually its proper name because Horus has no agency in his own rebellion. He's functionally a figurehead, and it robs him of anything interesting.

>>54838202
>Butt hurt furfag detected.

>>54837122
Enough negativity from the False OP. Let's look at who is obviously the best Primarch: FULGRIM

>Best duellist - Holds the record for Primarch kills.
>Handsome as fuck
>Effective Legion that overcame its setback without getting weird and secretive about it like the Bloods.
>Has a life outside of war.
>Gay without making it his entire thing or being really weird about it like Lion
>Overcame possession, putting him on par with a Grey Knight in terms of mental fortitude.
>Always thinks of the little guy. See the Siege of Terra for details.
>Let Khan have a win even if he did have to go low to get a laugh.
>Alive, unlike many loyalists such as Sanguinius, Dorn, Russ, Corax, Alpharius and the zombie Guilliman.

>>54852676
The story isn't over yet.

>>54838551
That's literally the original story though, you fucking newfag.

>>54852695
We're 41 books in. Probably pushing hundreds of thousands of words. It no longer matters that it isn't over yet. If it cannot be demonstrated in forty-fucking-one books, then they have failed.

>>54838960
To be fair, Magnus specifically forbade the Legion from fighting back until the last minute, by which time they were basically routed already. It's made pretty clear in the book that 1k could have inflicted massive casualties on the Wolves when they first dropped.

>>54852714
The thing about 41 books is that not all of them will matter. People will choose the interpretations they like and those will become canon, and the ones they don't will be forgotten as bad writing.

If BL comes out with a new angle on Horus going into the Siege of Terra, one that makes him a more active force in his own story, then that will be what people remember.

Or they could have him stay on his ship the whole time and focus on what Lorgar's doing.

>>54838971
I love baiting Furfag Wolfboys as much as the next anon, but it should be pointed out that Russ (and the Lion) got fucking shafted on this by Alan Merrett and Matt Ward.


In the original HH canon, the Wolves and the first were busy fighting a crusade on the other side of the galaxy when Horus threw his little coup, and by the time they heard about it he was already on the way to Terra and they tore ass to catch him up.

In fact, it was the imminent arrival of a joint DA / SW fleet (i.e. 2 of the most feared and respected Legions) that prompted Horus' gambit in dropping the shields on his Battlebarge and going 1v1 with the Emperor. The retcon to Ward's husbandos the Ultramarines being the threat is a testament to his under-the-desk blowjob skills I imagine.

>>54852752
>The thing about 41 books is that not all of them will matter.
>not all of them will matter
If they don't matter, then they shouldn't have bothered writing them. It's the Horus Heresy. It's not the "everything that ever happened ever in the galaxy in the space of fifty years oh and Horus also turned traitor during it" series.

>>54851745
Well, you certainly have your own opinion, since you consider that list bad. I find myself mostly agreeing with it, so I would like to see yours.

>>54852694
Russ is alive! He's just busy kicking ass in the eye of terror!

>>54852837
So he is doing something completely futile just to satisfy his ego?

Khan a confirmed testicle toucher

>>54845307
Yes he did fagtron. Read the fluff

>>54845801
>transsexual sonfags think they stood a chance at Prospero

Kek. The Wolves kicked the shit out of you

>>54852557
Exactly. Space Wolves are badass, White Scabs are gay

>>54839371
God, I fucking love going fast. Is there literally anything better?

>>54854894
t. underage

>>54839324
>ADB
Why stupid people here believe he can steer fluff?

>>54841475
He was still uncorrupted. You have to give in to corruption.
He did not until Russ got lucky in their duel and he needed power to save what was left of his people.

In short: Russ fucked up because he was ignorant as fuck and was too dumb following orders.

>>54842529
Outranking officer only has his power bestowed uppon him by dad. Dad did not give up on that power, just told officer he could act as him.

So Dad is still the highest power.

>>54854752
As if it is something bad.

>>54855682
>Russ got lucky
Holy hell the excuses are hilarious

>>54837166
L O R G A R E X I S T S Y O U F U C K I N G T W A T

>but but X is bad because reasons
Lorgar exists and is the representation a brain washing super failure who couldn't do anything right and every out primarch knows this.
He's nepotism embodied

>>54856259
Not an argument, Lorgar is better than the Khan.

>>54852557
>Signing poetry is LITERALLY a time-honored passtime for them
i mean just like the mongols and the pre and post Mohammad Arabs, the celts, the pre city state Hellenes, oral traditions of native americans.
It's almost as if oral poetry is a popular thing.
seriously though, singing poetry =/= civilized.
>While the Wolves tell fortune with bones and drink jet fuel
and they gather around in jetfuel lodges and sing fucking poetic epics or some shit. they're nords it's what they fucking do

Alpharius/Omegon is worst Primarch.
Whichever one the heretical one is.

>>54856289
The Khan could kick puppies and eat babies and still be better than Lorgar.
Lorgar remains a demented, useless little prick sadist. A religious nutter, moralist, pearl clutching manipulator who is almost singularly responsible for the current downfall of the human race

>>54856449
Khan was a literal nobody

>>54852694
>Holds the record for Primarch kills.
One. He killed one. He hurt another. SUCH a duelist.

Because that record is shared between Fulgrim, Dorn, Guilliman(Allegedly), Horus, the Emperor, a random Callidus assassin, and a hallway full of dudes on a Black Legion ship.

It's not a record if EVERYONE has done it. And if we're counting kills when they didn't really die, Curze has that record for the trainwreck that was Vulkan Lives.

>>54856482
>Khan was a literal nobody
which is better than being the singular source for almost all human suffering throughout the galaxy.

>>54856498
Forgetting Russ?

>>54856527
Lorgar was at least notable for something, Khan wasnt.

>>54856569
You seem to be miss understanding something
jeffrey dahmer is not a better person than your average joe blow because he did something notable.
And lorgar is several degrees of magnitude worse than JD's home cooking.
cannibalism is likely among the least Lorgars crimes against humanity.

>>54856553
I was going by on-screen kills, not implied. With how much of a mess the canon is, I don't have the wherewithal to tally the implied shit this early in the morning.

>>54856951
if your doing that then do the clones of Iron hand of the Iron hands count for anything?

>>54856989
Eh. Up for debate, because they weren't actually Ferrus, they were facsimiles of Ferrus.

Kurze kept murdering the real Vulkan, he was just mpf120 murder-resistant

If we include those do we have to include all the test-tube mutants in Fabulous Bill's laboratory too?

>>54837273
He calls out Mortarion for being in the same outsider role and not embracing it

>>54857053
probably, if they were good enough, but we'll never know.
Then again i don't hear people pissing about that as much has CAWL's chads
I mean that would also give the black legion a high kill count what with the Horus clones?
And with Vulkan, kurze was killing him unarmed no? not quite as fare.

>>54839371
that was my favorite scene in the book because of how -easy- they made it look. the Alpha Legion making a super-complex and comprehensive trap and the White Scars punch through it like it was a piece of wet paper. just top notch "this is boring, try harder" tactics.

File: 1496627323994.jpg (283KB, 700x900px) Image search: [Google]

283KB, 700x900px

>>54838412
The burns would make vulkan proud.
Fulgrim: "my contacts on mars say You do strange things to your ships."
Khan: "I hear you do strange things to your men."

Also the pissing contest sang starts. Khan pretty much calls out fulgrims arrogance and ignorance, something like "you stand and declare your skill to the universe, but know nothing about mine. You have your skill and pride but I would leave you choking on it."
Even paraphrased I still love me my khan

>>54855682
>Russ got lucky
>Battle described how Russ was next to impervious to Magnus sorcery
Sure thing anon

>>54857216
>kurze was killing him unarmed no? not quite as fare.
You mean fair like fulgrim-the-six-armed-daemon-swordsman vs. Guilliman the scholar and beurocrat?

Fights are never fair. That's not a thing.

>>54858565
Guilliman didn't quite die to Fulgrim though, i mean it was an anathema level killer blade not fulgrim himself.
>Fights are never fair. That's not a thing.
That a bit strange to look at it, i mean there are clearly unfair fights and even then i was getting at the fact that i'd hard to call it a fight at all.
it than Kurze being handed vulkan on a slab platter to use as a torture punching bag.