What are your favorite rules heavy games? Why do you like them?

>>54834461

Exalted, because I'm really fond of the setting, and because any game that lets you play a legendary hero whose hotel-managing skills will be spoken of in legend for millenia to come is the kind of game I want to play.

Ars Magica, because it's a game about playing academic wizards trying to understand magic and push the boundaries of what magic can do, and the rules-heaviness actually captures the studious, intellectual approach of the characters.

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I don't know if you guys qualify GURPS as rules-heavy, but it is the most fun system i know. That feeling you get before a gunfight or when some shit goes down is so precious. Am i gonna die or end up crippled? Will our planned tactics work out? Will i take a warhammer to the groin again etc.

Legends of the Wulin, because it is utterly unique.

It's a busted game, released too early with awful editing and the more I delve into it the more problems I find. But fuck if there isn't anything else like it. A crunchy yet narrative driven game with an abstract yet enjoyable combat system, putting conflict and battle at the center of storytelling? A rules heavy narrativist game seems like a contradiction in terms, but after having tasted it I want more, and there aren't any systems out there which are able to scratch the same itch. Not yet, anyway.

Hero System. Build an power you want. Build any character you want. Throw handfuls of dice at a time. 3d6 roll under resolution. Twelve second rounds split into twelve segments coupled with characters being able to buy their number of actions per round as a stat. A combat maneuver system that makes you interested in using them. Characters are built Ford tough.

Check it out.
> Hero System 6th Edition Trove
m3g4
#F!06Q2kY7I!r2JY-moVxFUGl90w6LDa2A

> Hero System 5th Edition Trove
m3g4
#F!Ym5RHIJL! Qk1NgisxONlZbCQdbNYBZg

>>54834461
Mythras, for sure. It's less abstract than D&D and more abstract than GURPS. Lots of tactical options in combat, lots of options for magic, and a few resolution mechanics cover just about any situation that can come up in a game.

>>54836149

I have to second the enthusiasm for this, though I have yet to play it. Have you looked at the Half-Burnt Manual, and if so, how much does it do to solve some of the game's problems?

>>54834461
Whatever it is, it's not fucking GURPS.

>>54837046

The Half Burnt Manual is good. I don't entirely agree with some of its fixes, and I think there are other things it doesn't cover, but the HBM goes a long way to making the game easier and less of an asspain to play.

>>54834461
AD&D 2e, because of its modularity. It's very clear what is an addon and what not, and given that each module is very short, it's easy to foresee the impact it might have on the game. OWoD games can be rules heavy, but they tend to not mark a clear baseline, but just stockpile lots of different subsystems in the systems chapter.

>>54836119
GURPS definitely can be rules-heavy, especially if you include stuff like Martial Arts or (I would assume) Tactical Shooting.

And as long as everyone at the table knows their shit and what they're doing, it's fantastic.

>>54836976
>HERO System
Muh Nigga

>>54837229
What are some modifications you made to AD&D 2e?

>>54840310
Hero deserves more recognition. It's on life support but the system is rock solid. It is an excellent alternative to GURPS.

>>54840310
>>54841272
Isnt it rules heavy as fuck?

I like both Mythras and Song of Swords, both for their really meaty and interesting combat systems. I also like the built in settings of the Tattered Realms and Glorantha, so my fluff needs are also taken care of.

>>54842879
Also if it haves a charater creations like rolemaster

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>>54834461
Pic related, for several reasons. First off, even though it's extremely rules heavy it's also extremely consistent in how things are done. Every time you want to do something, you roll
a number of d6s to try and get under your relevant skill/attribute. Standard difficulty is 3d6, anything that makes it more difficult adds an extra d6, anything that makes it easier removes on d6. 6s are always re-rolled as two new dice. If all your dice, except at most one, are 1s when you're done and you succeed you did it perfectly and get a chance to increase that skill by one at the end of the session by rolling against it: You roll over it, you increase it by one.

Secondly, it encouraged players to think of other solutions that combat, not only by being cumbersome as hell but by also being extremely deadly. There are no levels in the game, and no hit points. Instead, characters accumulate damage which in turn increase a number of dice you have to roll every turn to not pass out or die. Having loads of damage dice on your weapon means that you have a higher probability of rolling on the table for severe injuries, which includes stuff like hitting an eye, puncturing a lung, or having your sword get stuck in your opponent's bone. But because all 6s always explode, that means that even a beggar with a sorry excuse for a knife can get lucky and stab an experienced knight straight in the neck so that he bleeds out in under a minute.

Thirdly, we just had loads of fun rolling all those dice, looking through the tables, and laughing at our critical failures and at how ridiculous some of the entries in the various tables were. I don't know if I'd try to introduce an entirely new group to it, but I wouldn't have anything against the old crew getting together to play some of it.

4e, I feel being rules heavy actually has a point in it.