/CofD/ & /wodg/ Chronicles of Darkness and World of Darkness

>We have to rely on chronicle of fagness to create the least fagtastic OP

>>54824055
I unironicly love whoever did the art for revised era oWoD. Some of the reused 1 / 2e stuff was shit but books like Guide to the Anarchs had some good stuff

>>54824088
There's a lot of good art. The weird part is that it's mostly in the Vampire books.

>>54823964
We don't need the new Demons. They belong to nWoD even less than mages. Not to mention that they aren't demons at all.

>>54824106
I mean that's fair.
Mages aren't really even mages (and you mentioned them), Geist are neither sin-eaters or ghosts.

This is a common problem in CofD.

>>54824106
Switch it up, man. You can't just use the same argument for two splats. You've got to start working it up. Come up with new pieces of bullshit, or people will write you off. Look, you're really good at this, I'll admit. But you just need some art to it. There is no one size fits all approach to trolling. I mean, except for edition wars, but whatever.

>>54824106
>We don't need the only good splats in nWoD.

>>54823977
I do remember that every legal body has to have it's own enforcers. Consilium has to have his own police and army, otherwise there is no way to make law a law.

>>54824106
I've never heard any compelling arguments for why Mage doesn't fit, and I doubt I'll ever hear one for Demon either.

>>54824208
I don't think there is any way to say any game 'doesn't fit' besides someone's opinion.

>>54824169
You mixed me up with somebody. I mean that if you call mages a superheroes, then you can't say with serious face that demons belong to nWoD. That's just too hilarious.

>>54824208
Let's start with that they aren't demons in classical sense of word, they are machines in service of other complex machines.

>>54824239
See? That's what I mean. You're trying your one size fits all thing here. You need to find another angle. Try something like 'techgnostic espionage is too complex for WoD's limited system and belongs in something really advanced, like Earthdawn/Shadowrun". It's as much a shitpost as superheroes, but you're not marking yourself out or trying to draw thin butter over two concepts when it doesn't even cover one.

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I remember one book had images of both some vampire woman in a netcafè looking for people to eat and one playing in a band on stage. Can anyone tell me what book it was?

>>54824239
To be fair, the idea is that they are amazingly complex tools, in service to a giant complicated tool.

Which actually fits with the lore of angels, and certain views of god. Angels have little free will, making them mystical tools of god. God technically already knows all that has been, will be, etc, so all of his actions are already set because he already knows what will occur, making him a giant machine.

If you take the 'machine' aspect literally, you just get the God-Machine, the Angels, and then Demons.

>>54824267
Different Anon, but I will say Descent would fit oWoD and Fallen CofD better then the current setup, IMO.

>>54824304
Why would that be? oWoD Demon is pretty tied to the metaplot, what with Christianity being de facto real and all.

>>54824300
That's exactly the reason why nDemons isn't replacement to Lower Depths Demons, and via versa.

Personally I like the robot-cthulu interpretation of god more than the absentee father figure myself.

>>54824085
>not doing the work yourself
You get what you pay for

>>54824055
>Who is/was the best WOD/Chronicles artist?
Whoever did the work in Bloodlines: the Hidden.

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>>54824239
>mages a superheroes
But mages are super heroes. Their costumes give them more power

>>54824368
Yeah but we have Goetic Demons, Pandemonium Demons, Abyssals, and spirits of vices.

After all of those guys, the only thing Lower Depths demons would do that is 'unique' is offer power in exchange for control of your soul or whatever.

Guess who does that?
GM Demons.

Lower Depths demons no longer have a role, and they don't even have a real location since the Lower Depths barely is described or exists. It is in one blue book (which is 1e now) and mentioned in Mage 2e. Honestly, Mage doesn't need the Lower Depths, not even for 'mysterious demons' to show up.

Lower Depths and their demons are just extra.

>>54824467
Mages have superpowers but they are far far far away from being heroes.

>>54824484
Having alternate 'cancer universes' is a useful narrative device for a high power game like Mage though.

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>>54824494
>Mages have superpowers
Super Villians whatever
Point is they get make up in costumes and Larp reality into doing their bidding

>>54824484
>the only thing Lower Depths demons would do that is 'unique' is offer power in exchange for control of your soul or whatever
Lower Depths demons aren't really interested in your souls. Things they are interested in taking you are the things you can't afford to lose, like individuality, substantiality or ability to die. Lower Depths demons are like Abyssals, but you can't meaningfully interact with Abyssals. Lower Depths demons don't want to corrupt and destroy reality - they want to strip mine it.

>>54824577
Lower depths entities aren't demons. They're just things. The lower depths Demons of Inferno are interested in Sin, because it sustains them. They can survive on what's already in their Hell, but it's like a human eating shit, according to them.

>>54824577
>Lower Depths demons are like Abyssals, but you can't meaningfully interact with Abyssals. Lower Depths demons don't want to corrupt and destroy reality - they want to strip mine it.
Surely you meant that you "can" interact with Abyssals?

>>54824577
>>54824514
I mean that's fair, and there is never a reason to remove something that already doesn't have to be used. I guarantee a majority of the people here who have played, haven't had a lower depths entity in their games at all. They are just super niche.

They just seem like such an afterthought, without much that they do different from the myriad of other 'evil demonic things'. They are really just spirits of vices, but they don't respond to spirit magic... probably.

It feels like someone snuck in a chance to have their bog-standard 'hell' in the setting. But it doesn't really fit that role either.

>>54824295
I hate this picture with a passion. It's just like it's waiting for an full on cringe character backstory to be posted next to it, but doesn't even need the text. The cringe is already there.

>>54824629
The person who started talking about them called them demons. I guess you could call them that, though it's not really talking about them. Just as title "Demons" not talking much about servants of GM.

>>54824646
I said you can't interact with them meaningfully. That's because Abyssals are, by definition, outside of our understanding. You can react to their actions, but you can't predict them, you can't influence them - they just happen to you as byproduct of magic.

>>54824649
> They are really just spirits of vices
No, they aren't. That's the Goetia.

>but they don't respond to spirit magic
They don't have to respond to any magic, because they don't play by Fallen World's rules. Just as any other Abyssal.

>>54824717
Yeah, but that's a troll. I'm trying not to respond to it.
>>54824701
If it helps, that's supposed to be from a book accompanied by a bit of text on gender bending.

>>54824561
>Point is they get make up in costumes and Larp reality into doing their bidding
That's not what superheroes do.
It is, however, what Wizards do.

>>54824907
https://comicvine.gamespot.com/profile/magicpower/lists/dc-comics-top-magic-using-heros/15006/

Care to try again?

>>54824106
following your argumentation, do Beasts belong?

I think it is cute they included a reason to use precious and pure virgins in your blood sacrifices. Since high integrity characters give more mana.

Not that losing your 'virginity' lowers integrity. But losing 'purity' by being introduced to terrible influences or doing bad things, does.

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>>54824467
means they also have super villains

>>54825011
Gay egyptian warlock is my favourite supervillain.

>>54824984
I prefer to pretend that this line never existed. I guess that there is a place for "legendary monsters which defy classification" in WoD, but Beasts as they are aren't worth talking about.

>>54824971
That's actually an incredibly poor list for your point. Out of all 128, there are less than a dozen wizards, and only three of them are what you would call superheroes. Dr. Fate, a guy who channels a spirit of order or something close to that, and the Zatannas, who dress up as stage magicians. The others, like Constantine, Ali Ka Zoom (homeless wizard), and Doctor Occult aren't superheroes. Constantine and Doctor Occult are like detectives. And The Wizard is like an Archmage.

The list is also wildly broad. It includes any character who has powers from magic, not just magic users and not just heroes. The Endless are on there, and so is Vixen, for example. If you're going to keep baiting with the superhero nonsense you'd do better to just spam Dr. Strange.

How is changeling the lost 2nd looking?

>>54825259
>Dr. Fate, a guy who channels a spirit of order or something close to that
I'd say he's a Spirit Ruling Obrimos in that case.

>>54825752
I guess it is being rewritten a lot.

So it will depend (to me) if the Huntsmen and Court creation stuff from the previews stay in.

If so, it still looks interesting.

>>54825780
Maybe, but it's the other way around. The spirit is in control of him, as I understand it.

>>54824166
>Magea aren't really even mages

Yes they are

Can Changelings be sexy? Can I fuck them?

>>54825829
You can fuck anything if you try hard enough.

>>54825829
Yes, and yes.

On two levels. Their human form takes on some aspects of whatever is being hidden by their mask. So if you are dealing with a lady who is a lusty elemental of spring, her hair will have the bounce of flowering buds, and she may smell of morning dew. (On the other hand, her skin might feel a little like bark, and her hair have hints of bird poop. You know, whatever floats your boat).

She could also make a contract with you to allow you to see her true form, which could be whatever kind of sexy fae creature (or horrifying, depending on how you feel about cyclopean giants, or skittering spider-people).

Do we know what exactly was the Ascension Warrior? a clone? nobody but self-claimed imposter? Which book should I check to find out?

>>54825752
Like trash. Hill's version was far more mechanically sound, Rose seems incompetent on all fronts when it comes to writing or directing people to write mechanics.

>>54826210
>Rose seems incompetent on all fronts when it comes to writing or directing people to write mechanics.
What is he doing wrong?

>>54826235
Basically taking everything hill did and rewriting it as slightly to grossly worse.

They are really fucking the book in order to not pay Hill.

I thought the 20th was cWoD re-make/reboot. Are they rebooting cWoD AGAIN - separate from the 20th or something? what's going on?

>>54826347
Swedish Dracula is attempting to make One World of Darkness.

>>54826392
>>54826347
V20 is now considered 4th edition
Paradox owned Nu-White Wolf has a 5th edition in the works.

Can you open a node inside an object and/or within a Realm, effectively making a self-sustaining Realm?

So if I'm reading mage sight correctly, peripheral mage sight wouldn't actually notice that a creature pretending to be human is weird, that would need active mage sight right?

They give the example of a ghost at rest in twilight. Not until it uses supernatural powers would it ping on peripheral, right?

>>54826210
Isn't Rose one of the 3 not shit writers in OPP? She was one of the main folks that did D:tD and that was probably their best work.

>>54826516
MacFarland also did Demon, that didn't stop him from fucking beast. Personally all the books rose has done since the core vampire have been shit. Thousand Years of Night was a mess of untested mechanics and bad stat blocks and changeling 2e is shaping up to be the same thing.

>>54826495
As a rule of thumb I just say supernatural things 'at rest' don't ping until they're 'in motion'. If I need another way to prompt slowpokes into taking closer looks, I just describe the atmosphere as being very charged or heavy, or that the hairs on the backs of their necks stand up, etc.

>>54826568
That makes sense. They could have a slight 'unseen sense' sort of feeling, but not know what is making their hairs stand on end.

Though I guess doing that could spoon-feed them the idea they should go into active mage sight.

>>54826596
>Though I guess doing that could spoon-feed them the idea they should go into active mage sight.
It's used sparingly. If they miss something, they miss it. I try to be adaptive most of the time.

>>54824055
>Who is/was the best WOD/Chronicles artist?

>TFW Mage 2e has no unicycles

>>54826495
Yes, unless the Mage had Death 2, which grants them the ability to sense Ghosts "at rest" in Twilight.

>>54826754
Yeah, but that's an added extra, so whatevs. Cool, good to know.

blood mage vampires can fight equally against awakened mages right?

>>54825259
>Throwing away evidence when it contradicts your world view
k

>>54826263
>They are really fucking the book in order to not pay Hill
>It wasn't already fucked under Hill
What are you a HillFag?

>>54827141
Nope

>>54827141
>blood mage vampires can fight equally against awakened mages right?

Not. Even. Close.

>>54827323
>>54827355

So what's the pointo f having other casters when one group is going to be better than the others? I understand that vampires are weak but shouldn't their own magic be a match to even things out for the sake of balance?

>>54827371
What fucking balance you turd? Game lines are not written to be balanced with other game lines.

Fuck off. Baitting 1/10

>>54827371

CofD 2e, and Mage 2e in particular, were explicitly not designed for crossover balance. Each gameline's mechanics are designed to enforce and emphasize its themes and setting, nothing else.

CofD rules are generally compatible, but that in no way implies one splat is "balanced" against another.

>>54827371
It's a matter of quantity(Vampires) vs quality(Mages)

A true wizard is going to humiliate a blood sorcerer in a straight up duel. Or in any magical endeavor, really. No question. Wizards are wizards.
The only thing going for Vampires is the fact that they've got bigger numbers and their magic being relatively easier to use, with little to no drawbacks to speak of.

This goes for both OWoD and CofD.

Most every major splat has some sort of 'sorcerous' faction, such as Changelings and the Autumn Court, or Werewolves and the Bone Shadows Tribe.
Mages on the other hand are wholly and entirely defined by the concept, and as such are rightfully the most powerful when it comes to matters of the arcane.

It's not a bad thing.
It's thematic.

>>54827371
>sake of balance?
Gave it away.

>>54827389
>>54827473
Everything is bait for you guys, at this point.

You don't know who to trust anymore, do you?

>>54827498
DaveB is the only one i trust.

>>54827498
>You don't know who to trust anymore, do you?
Sure I do.

No one.

>>54827524
You fool, your beloved lizard has forsaken this place.

I doubt he even reads these threads anymore.

>>54827540
He does. He's made his presence knows a few times recently.

Who here hyped for the crossover chronicle giving mages a much needed beat down with the nerfbat

>>54818421

The True Fae wouldn't be able to kidnap anyone unless, they had a Contract with the whole of Humanity to be able to do so.

Who could make such a contract? Who in deed, hmmmmm? Maybe... maybe a certain Oracle of Fate and Time, hmmmm? HMMMM?

Why must mages shit everything up?

>>54827830
They might be nerfed for crossover, sure, just like vampires might have some way to be playable not only at night. But if you're trying to rustle magefags, the Crossover Chronicles won't do it. It's not like Mages would be nerfed in their own book, and player crossover is commonly denounced here. Most magefags say you should nerf Mages to use them in crossover anyway, so all the Crossover Chronicles would be doing is taking care of that for you.

>>54827830
No nerfs in Crossover Chronicles. Just ways to help you with storytelling other splats.

>>54827885
I wonder what would happen if a Fate 10 Archmaster walked into Arcadia.

>>54827959
The Wyrd now has a new master.

And some hefty Pax screeching.

>>54827830
>Thinking the crossover chronicle will have rules and not just boring ST advice like thousand years of night.
It probably won't even cover any of the questions people really want answered.

>>54826531
That reminds me. Did they ever explain what the 6+ Disciplines some characters had in 1k nights mean? Was it a typo or do elders have access to some form of super disciplines?

If it's the later it would have been nice to have idk actually mechanics explaining what they could do.

>WOD is cannon to the Matrix
lol
http://matrix.wikia.com/wiki/Nightmare_Matrix

>>54828028
I don't think any single Archmage could stand against the Wyrd

>>54827959
The Ruin et al. has vested interested in the status quo. As with all things related to archmages and the Pax the question isn't can I? It's are you prepared to deal with the fallout?

>>54827540
Have faith in the komodo. He is a just and all powerful god.

>>54828179
A Fate 10 Archmage could make his own Wyrd with blackjack and hookers.

>>54828179
Ten dots in an Arcanum is Assumption, permanent Transfiguration. Full omnipotence over 1/10 of all reality.

The Wyrd is living fate, therefore it is now the bitch of the Archmaster.

>>54828282
Or Fate 9. Make a spark of a duplicate Wyrd and let it run its course within your Chantry.

>>54828282
>>54828305
I'm fairly certain you don't need 9-10 dots to make your own realm where you reign supreme over all. 7-8 would be enough.

And to think we were working towards a Hunter storytime last thread.

>>54828678
THIS IS A MAGE THREAD

FUCK OFF

>>54828678
Mages shit up everything. We all know this.

>>54828722
Exhibit A, for example.

>>54828375
With 10 dots you could make your Wyrd the real one and turn the current one into a pale imitation. But you'd probably piss off the Archmage who made the original Wyrd, so meh.

>>54828836
BUTTHURT VAMPFAG

>>54824351
D:tF and the metaphysics of oWoD are more a hodgepodge of Mesopotamian syncretism mostly explained through Judeo-Christian gnosticism. Born from An, the sky god, powerful deities boinking/uplifting mortals, the deluge and all that. All of this was pretty vague because D:tF faced such massive production issues and most of the stuff got clarified/fixed in the player's guide.

The whole Lucifer myth can't be found in the Bible, though the story of D:tF/The Fall can be found from the apocryphal Book of Enoch that is considered canon only by a random Ethiopian denomination these days. It was popularized by Milton's Paradise Lost that decided to use the King James Version fuck-up of Isaiah 14:12's "morning star" or "lightbringer", though the common noun "lucifer" was used to refer to e.g. Jesus multiple times in the same original text of the Latin Vulgate.

D:tF tried to explain the metaphysics of cWoD through an unified creation story, but it is not the story Christianity uses.

Church father Irenaeus in the early second century basically coined the term heresy to weed out the D:tF-style belief that angels could fall because that would mean that God was fallible. This also meant angels could not be the creators of Earth, as all power was moved to YHWH himself.

So yeah.

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>>54828914
So Jojo's Bizarre Adventure Fanfic
Got it

>>54829003
Jojo's does predate the entire world of darkness by a good 4 years...

One of my earliest Hunter games, I was also teaching the players how to play. So I had them all create the closest to themselves that they could. Session 1 they were just normal guys, all living in the same house we were playing in.

The rest of the first session was like the movie 'You're Next'. The phone lines are cut, the power is cut, someone put up a jammer for cell phones, and then four weirdos just start screwing with them. At first it is playful, then they just start breaking in and trying to kill.

Even in real life, one of the players has a sort of 'zombie survival' plan, so they execute it, except for crazy people. They barricaded themselves, pulled out blunt weapons that were actually around the house, and prepared to fight back against the Slasher team coming in.

Slowly they realize that for some reason, this group has a sports theme, everyone all dressed up like a different sport. There is softball girl whose ball is actually covered in spikes, a football pad guy that is tough as balls, etc etc. They take out one that comes too deep into the house to get them, and knock out another, and then instead of becoming murderers they decide to make a break for it (the house is literally down the street from a fire department).

As they try to get to the front entrance, baseball girl takes a spiked bat to the back of one of the players, the roll being so insane, he drops in one hit.

Another player decks softball girl, the strongest picks up the unconscious member, and they flee through the night.

That is their first introduction to the world of darkness.

They also realize that for some reason, I (one of the people that lived at the house) wasn't present for most of their fight against the slashers.

>>54829394
I stopped trying to get new people to make characters close to themselves when an argument developed with my gf about what her appearance should be...She thought 3 was to low..

>>54829515
Your girl must be smoking hot. Nice one Anon!

Are Paths determined based on the individuals personalities? Could an edgy emo just as likely Awaken as an Obrimos instead of a Mastigos?

>>54829538
Nah she's an ugo. She's one of those BBW types

>>54829515
Thankfully, nWoD's built in stat rules lead to them checking themselves pretty fast.

Like, they all wanted to be considered very intelligent, but I also warned them there would be fighting, and clearly none of them had guns in real life. So some of them were willing to back off on being big brains.

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>Name: Gideon Grey
>Shadow Name: Psionis
>Path: Mastigos

>Bio: Gideon Grey was one of the few humans born with supernatural power. From birth Gideon was a telepath. From an early age he was tormented by terrible migraines and the incessant droning of human consciousness every waking moment. Eventually the droning became unearthly screaming, horrible visions, and terrifying nightmares in addition to the debilitating headaches. His single father was an abusive acoholic who mistreated him physically and emotionally. This culminated to the night of his awakening in his early teens where he finally had enough. Inadvertently he let out a psychic scream so powerful it killed everyone in his small village instantly. A local group of Guardians of Veil felt the disturbance and located Grey. They decided to take the gifted child in and teach him how to harness his magic in order to protect the world. Now known by his Shadow Name Psionis, Gideon has vowed to protect the world from those who would misuse their magical talents.

>"I will show you the true meaning of torment"

This is the kind of character mage players create. Really makes one think.

>>54829567
Dude why!?!? You need to raise your standards senpai

>>54829620
Indeed it does:
"I don't want that loser in my Mage game"

>>54829649
She's rich and gives amazing head. Shrugs. I'm basically just using her to get over my mom leaving me when I was young.

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>>54829620

>>54829724
You know not fat bitches can also do those things right?

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Idigam are the best villains. Prove me wrong. You can't!

>>54829747
Idigam are heroes. Anyone who wants to sodomize Luna is alright by me.

>>54829740
>I'm planning to keep her around
If she was actually worth a damn, I wouldn't be planning to dumb at Uni. It's much more difficult to drop a hottie. I don't actually want to date my mom. I just want to hate fuck a stupid whore because I hate my mom. Basic transference

>>54829747
The Idigam are indeed awesome.

Most of the games try to talk about some big terrible horrors that you might face. But Idigam are the best delivery on that promise. They are the cosmic horrors, the terrible things going bump in the dark, the reality shattering outsiders.

I especially love that they can just pop out twisted spirits, and manipulate souls. Plus they can create human or spirit servants so they can quickly build cults in their name.

>>54829815
And yer local Thrysus master just wipes them out when they become to much of a problem for the local woofs.

>>54829891
If you've got a local Thyrsus Master who gives a shit.

>>54829891
>They wouldn't meet up and gangbang Luna
What are you a faggot or something?

A'ight instead of sucking our dicks about 'Mage Supremacy' how about a non-antagonistic cross over?

Since mages are really good at solving mysteries and uncovering obscure knowledge. What might drive a group of vampires/woofs/changelings/etc. to contact their local mage cabal/autist support group?

What might they ask in return?

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>>54830209

>>54830209
Mages are jerks, why would they help some other group?

>>54830209
Easy.

Like the sundered world setting, Werewolves might ask for help with an annoyingly powerful spirit, or a spirit that has something weird going on with it (pangeans in the case of sundered world) that are causing trouble.

In exchange the mage would probably just hold on to a favor, because outside of fetishes, a spirit focused mage is already doing most stuff a werewolf can.

If the favor is big enough, maybe they would ask for a locus. Just, 'hey, I know you guys keep that on lock. Give it to me instead.'

And I mean, if the mage doesn't seem like the sort to just let spirits come running through it to cause trouble, why not? The mage will guard it from pure, spirit spooders and rats.

>>54830277
>what do mages do with a locus exactly?

>>54830310
Spirit orgy.

>>54830310
Rape it for mana

>>54830310
A locus is an area of gauntlet strength 0, which means it is going to be useful for a spirit focused mage even if they themselves don't need it to cross the gauntlet into the shadow. Spirits love loci, they spew out essence, spirits can cross over easy, etc etc.

From a 'this mage likes to study and do stuff related to spirits' view, a locus is a big deal.

>>54830209
>What might they ask in return?
Werewolf piggyback rides.

Wow, an anon told me that they made mana costs kind of pointless, but now that I'm actually reading the 2e rules for mage, jesus you almost never need mana unless you go out of your way to be over the top on a spell.

>>54830383
Or if you use something that isn't your primary arcana. Which you get like 3 of by 'midgame'

>>54830383
It's much less useful in 2e, but it's still useful in absorbing Paradox dice, casting spells which involve a non-Ruling Arcana, and in enabling Mage Sight.

>>54830383
>Reading the rules
Thats not how you shitpost. Go back and try again

>>54830356
Actually a verge has 0 gauntlet strength, a locus as a strength of 1.

>rape it for mana
what is a hallow

you all know nothing

>>54830403
Yeah, but then praxis or rotes both remove that mana cost on spells that aren't your primary.

So anything you think you're going to use, just make it a praxis or rote.

Plus, it seems like you can easily have Yantras out the wazoo.

>>54830417
Right, 1, not 0. Haven't ran werewolf in like two years, my bad.

>>54830448
Max 2 yantras in one spell until Gnosis 3.
Then it becomes 3 yantras.

Plus, any beyond the first (or High Speech as the first) extend the spellcasting to mulitple turns.

>>54830448
You sound like you never use creative thaumaturgy. Why even play mage?

>>54830448
The biggest expense mana-wise in my current game is mage sight, recharging imbued items and/or artifacts, and to a lesser extant containing paradox.

However, I'm never in a situation where Tass isn't worth more than it's weight in gold.

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I think I'm going to be running my first game as a ST for a Wraith the Oblivion game, does anyone know a good pdf(s) to pick up for a first time campaign?

>>54830448
Mana is used for more than that. And chances are you won't just be using Rotes or Praxes to cast for Common Arcana. I would also say it wouldn't be wise to put no Rotes or Praxes in your Ruling Arcana just to save mana.

>>54830550
I'd say the opposite is true. You'd be more likely to use rotes/praxis from common and inferior arcana and use ruling arcana to improvise.

>>54830273
To showcase just how much better they are compared to mere woofs?

Mages are also investigators and generally the most knowledgeable people in the setting.
They're either the best kind of ally or the worst possible enemy. Sometimes both at once.

>>54830609
What I'm saying is there are still cases where you would improvise from Common Arcana, and cases where you would want Rotes or Praxes in Ruling. You should also take Legacies into account. It would be useful in the short term to put all your Rotes and Praxes into Space to save mana, but ultimately pointless to do so if you intend on becoming a Walker in Mists, unless you wanted to play a Space heavy character.

Asking again because I'm confused how Awakenings work.

Are Paths particularly biased towards certain personalities? Could a free spirited new age retard Awaken as, say, a Moros just as likely as an Acanthus?

>>54830747
Yes.

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>>54830747
no you have to start beating people up as soon as you awaken

>>54830747
I think that's *usually* how it works. That new age retard will probably turn out to be an Acanthus. You don't choose your Path, the Watchtower chooses YOU based on YOUR individuality, w/e.

>>54830818
Oh, fuck. It's you.

>>54830747
Kinda, though remember that your Awakening can have arisen as a result of your change.

So a rigid, unfeeling, micromanaging, asshole of an investment banker might find his life fall apart overnight, and in the chaos of directionless find path Acanthus. Or at least, start on the path towards Awakening.

Not every Awakening succeds.
Some fail and fall asleep, some stumble and become Sleepwalkers, and some go Mad.

>>54830861
Failed awakenings always produce a Sleepwalker, right? You don't just forget the process.

>>54830891
Nope, some fail so spectacuarly they completely forget and become a Sleeper again.

>>54830747
>Are Paths particularly biased towards certain personalities?
Yes and no. Awakenings don't follow any hard rules, but there are trends they follow.

>Obrimos
People who awaken to this Path are most likely to have philosophies of order and might. Laws, truths and such. This can range anywhere from a priest who believes in the might of the heavens to a scientist who believes the natural world is built on laws of energy.

>Moros
People who often Awaken as a result of a brush with death and emerged changed from it. Often fascinated with transformation, if I recall correctly, ranging from alchemy to viewing death as just a transitive state. While stereotyped as being dour workaholics (they have a better grasp of mortality than most) they can also believe that since life is short, you may as well enjoy it.

And so on for the other Paths. An Acanthus can advocate freedom just as readily as inevitability, etc.

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>>54830856
Oh, fuck. It's you.
Go away /xfag. No one wants your placid magic tricks

So what is the purpose of the elodoth? They seem like the shittiest and most useless auspice.

>>54831180
Whoa whoa, I just came to have a good time and I'm feeling really attacked right now.

A correction from like, three or four threads ago.

We were talking about Demons being examined with spells to tell if they are something weird.

The demons spoofs, but it isn't a clash. They would spoof, and then after they would resist the effect like normal (if possible).

Also, spoofing doesn't appear to be contested.

And by the rules, no spoofing itself wouldn't register on mage sight, because the act of spoofing spoofs anything that would show them as non-human, even in incidental ways. their example is someone trying to register all human minds in an area with a spell, where not registering as human would cause trouble. reflexively spoofed without the demon being aware what they are spoofing (but they are aware that they are spoofing).

I was cross referencing something back to Demon, and ran across that.

Now carry on with whatever is going on.

>>54831426
I'm sure you've built a sound case but your excessive use of spoofing leaves me wondering what the fuck you even said.

What are the benefits of founding your own Legacy?

>>54831461
It wasn't really my story the first time, and honestly I can't even remember the specifics.

The main thing is that in our original scenario, we thought the rules meant you could probably use cover in place of primum for the clash of wills. Which made sense at the time. Mage wants to look past the disguise of a Demon, Demon's natural abilities say no to that. Clash right?

But that doesn't seem to be the case. Spoof would trigger before any resistance, and instead of making the spell not work, it just makes the demon read as human.

There was also a second conversation about the Demonic tongue and Mage's detecting lies. That one would probably be more complicated, and I don't really know what to do. Like, the Mage should be able to tell if a lie is being told, but Demon lies register as how they want on a reality level. Anything, supernatural or not, trying to tell if it is true will read it how the Demon wants.

But the mage trying to read it would be able to tell if reality is being warped (if they have the related arcanum). BUT BUT, to do that would reveal that the Demon isn't a plain human, so it would be spoofed.

What happens from there, I don't know.

But that was a second conversation that doesn't matter as much.

>>54831512
There are none, other than the freedom to define the Legacy's fundamental principles yourself.

Which is why unless you want a story about how your character founded a Legacy, it's always best to get your GM to introduce someone with the homebrew Legacy you want instead so they can tutor you into joining it.

>>54831512
Some Consilium renown and your own tailor made Legacy.

>>54829944
>"Lul'Aya, was it? Our Legacy has heard of your goal to fuck Luna into submission...and we think we could help you with it."

>>54824295
Anyone on this? Anyone at all? The only piece of text I remember is "Vampires. Vampires find their niche." and something about her being a 6/10.

So apparently there's one vampire for every 25000 people or so. One mage for every 65000, if you assume Tokyo is representative. What's the number for werewolves?

>>54832252
who cares?

>>54832252
I think werewolves are about as common as vampires (probably a little less so since vampires CAN populate quickly and manually), but most werewolves are Pure.

So while there are plenty of werewolves, they are the evil mean guy kind.

>>54832330
Australia must be pretty empty of non-Pure werewolves. It's pangaea to the Pure, and stocked full of Predator Kings. The Forsaken are fucked.

>>54830861
>>54830966

So anybody could potentially Awaken to any Path, given the circumstances?

>>54832364
Yeah, that's part of the character creation fun though.

Maybe your guy reads like an obvious Mastigos.

Maybe their whole life they were the opposite of what you would expect, but their life hits a point that makes them Mastigos-like and they awaken.

Maybe they awaken and still aren't like a Mastigos, and they spend their time going 'wtf watchtower?'

All good stories.

>>54832395
>Maybe they awaken and still aren't like a Mastigos, and they spend their time going 'wtf watchtower?'
Fuck you Supernal destiny, Imma be a Seer.

Then I can be a Mastigos when I'm really a Moros

>>54832395
I once ate too many biscuits and spend two days writing a manifesto on why Dark Souls was a hybrid of greek culture and japanese religion designed to appeal to both east/west audiences while mapping aspects of the game and its lore to real life common aspects in classical greek and japanese mythology. Then I passed out and was off work for a week because I was fucked.

Would that make me an Obrimos? Or just someone who becomes a turbo autist when he's doing pingers? Is there really a difference?

>>54831258
Fuck your shit wolffag no one cares about your shitty changing breeds crap

>>54832708
Japan seems to be obsessed with western cultures when it comes to their fiction. It's weird.

>>54832708
>I once ate too many biscuits and spend two days writing a manifesto on why Dark Souls was a hybrid of greek culture and japanese religion designed to appeal to both east/west audiences while mapping aspects of the game and its lore to real life common aspects in classical greek and japanese mythology. Then I passed out and was off work for a week because I was fucked.
What kind of biscuits did you eat?

>>54832906
The kind that are also called "pingers" and "ecstasy".

>>54832715
What if there was a Skintheif Proximus Dynasty of Mastigos who transform by wearing the "skin" of their Goetic Demons?

Hey Legacy Anon could you do the Cwnn Annwn legacy?

>>54832948
Basically I'm talking about a Dynasty of Mastigos Kamen Riders.

...how did the powers of Proximus Dynasties work again?

>>54832967
Sure.
But man, people weren't kidding when they said the recycled art is completely out of place.

If I hung a kinetic shield using Time and set a conditional trigger using Fate, would it automatically pop and defemd me when somebody shoots a bullet my way? Or if a vampire/mage uses Celerity/Acceleration against me?

>>54833113
Depends what the condition you set was.

>>54833161
Something that moves very fast as is about to slam into you?

>>54833179
How fast is fast?

>>54833038
Unless they described them better in a follow up book... they don't really say.

they just give one example dynasty.

>>54833113
Just set the trigger as "When i am about to be harmed" and call it a day, Dont fucking worry about speed n shit, ffs.

>>54833275
Not who you're talking to but could you include a Life component to set a trigger based on how much physical harm something will inflict?

>>54833275
The average bullet speeds at 1,700 mph

Celerity/Acceleration is self explanatory

>>54833302
You dont need life to set any trigger, just set it to something like when i start taking wound penalties, or when my last box is lethal damage, or when i take 1 box of damage, or when i take 3 points of damage, or when i take 3 bashing, or whatever the fuck you want, you dont need another arcana to setup triggers,

>>54833317
For hung spells you need Fate to set it off

>>54833324
Yes fate, NO other arcana like i said, faggot. Guy said to add life...

do you read??

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>>54833336
Someone has a stick up their ass

>leave thread too sleep

>come back

>first thing I see magefags jacking off about gang raping Luna
>and the Celerity vs. Mages discussion

Lord have mercy with this general. Are you fags NEVER tired of discussing the same shit over and over again.

>>54833289
...Darn.

Well I guess my idea of a Dynasty that defeats supernatural threats by transforming using Mind and a bit of Spirit (the process of making your inner demons into armour is similar to the one used by Spirit Skinners) and then using Space to kick the monsters in the teeth is dead.

>>54833349
>>first thing I see magefags jacking off about gang raping Luna
It is a noble goal!
With Lul'Aya assisting us, nothing can go wrong!

>>54833349
No new content to talk about that isnt pugmire or catpiss.

So no, until opp releases some books with content its mage fucking luna all day long.

Sorry if I'm asking for evident stuff, I'm a newb, but, in Awakening
What causes Mages ?
I want to know the reason for humans awakening
Is it a singular event at the dawn of time the repercussions of which create mages randomly ? Is there a higher power that decides who gets to be a mage ?
Was there a time when mages didn't exist ?

>>54833361
Wait, wait, I may not be remembering right.

There may be some basics here. But the problem was that they don't lay anything out on how to make them not suck. Because they lack a lot of the ways to produce additional dice that are laid out for actual mages.

It isn't proximi that aren't details, that was something in Promethean (I think it was Alchemists. They got zero content)

>>54833349
>Celerity vs Mages discussion

Vampfags have very few things to hold on to when facing off against Mage Supremacy.
It's a sour topic, considering Celerity is absolute shit against most Mages.

Dominate is a better alternative, though not by much.

>>54833395
According to the Atlantean myth?
In the previous iteration of the universe, people found weak points in the world and travelled to the Supernal realms to claim the power there for themselves.

In the current universe, that's impossible because the Abyss is in the way.
So you have to be in a receptive mentality, and the Watchtowers have to blast your soul with the Magic juju to actually draw you to the Supernal to Awaken.
The Watchtowers were established in the previous universe.

>>54833395
As someone who isn't balls deep into mage lore, but has skimmed the book a lot.

Mages come from the Supernal (an extra-dimensional realm that sort of governs reality itself) reaching out to the soul of a mortal.

It is thought that there was a before time when ALL humans were mages, or at least a ton of them. There was 'Atlantis', a mystical point in the past where mages were just awesome and the best.

Then something ruined that, and atlantis was destroyed like the utopia it is. After that point, the past of humans always being free to manipulate the supernal was erased. Like, it is something that existed, but didn't exist, and now it is a faint echo of a possible memory that maybe happened.

So now there is the abyss, a layer of anti-reality between the supernal and the 'fallen' world. So the supernal has to try super hard to awaken souls to being mages.

From there, your guess is as good as the rest of the mages. they spend a lot of philosophical time arguing this very idea. Why does X person become a mage and not Y person? Why only this many mages?

Did you know in 5000 bc setting, more mages awaken. Why is that? Is it because more mages also die really fast? Is it a balancing act of only so many mages at a time?

The abyss existed even back then, so if atlantis existed, it happened even before the neolithic era.

>>54833381
Sidenote: The Sons of Lul'Aya are now hated by all Werewolves that encounter them.

This is all because they are being Mutated by their Attainments...and like their Patron they cause Death Rage in Gaurou.

>>54833441
Not all people were mages in the prehistory. But people could travel to atlantis and meditate on the dragon bones and awaken far easier.

Modern day it requires being selected by a watchtower erected by the oracles. Otherwise no new mages would awaken which is how the exarchs probably want it, but since they seem unable to destroy the watch towers they instead try to draw mages to their side ie seers.

>>54833395

So tldr, your chosen by a watchtower.

>>54833477
Idigam's arnt above rank 5?

RIP vs Thrysus. Hell even 1 dot of spirit and one can find out its bane/ban. Every ww should be asking Thrysus's for help.

>>54833477
Is the mutation spirit dicks, for which to get anal from spirits?

>>54833508
Sure, and a werewolf can find their ban/bane too. They just have weird ones that require an adventure to get usually.

Then even if you do get into a big dumb fight with it, it'll just go all goo on you and slither off go cause chaos somewhere else.

>>54833399

>hold off against mage surpremacy

L E L

Most people don't use mages in their game. Or look at me my mages are completely different and in Combat they essentially work like Hunters.

>>54833541
That's more because mage mechanics are needlessly complicated for NPCs.

The ones in the witch hunter book are quick and simple, so it doesn't take you longer to figure out an NPC's attack than it takes your players to make their characters.

>>54833564
I honestly think the fact that most people don't want the mythology and want a reasonable powerlevel is important too.

>>54833508
And you missed the point entirely.

The Son's of Lul'Aya are a Legacy of Space Ruling Thyrsus who are joining Lul'Aya in his noble quest to put it in Luna's ass.

This servitude mutates them in ways similar to him and causes nearby Lunes and Uratha to go berserk, but for them it will be worth it.

>>54833512
...Kind of.

When you are fucking Luna you can never have enough dicks.

>>54833614
I guess that could be the case.

I usually still play the Witch hunter mages as supernal mages. There isn't a lot of reason not to. Their abilities are all similar stuff, just refluffed with different names because Hunters don't know the real ones.

Where a Mage knows they are dealing with 'Fate' and 'Time', a Hunter sees a guy 'foretelling' the future, and simplifies it as that. They'll never be able to know or understand the real deal, so the Hunter book doesn't explain it from that angle.

They do that with all the Hunter supplements. Hunters get stuff wrong all the time, and that effectively changes how the powers are explained, or even work. Because from the angle of the Hunters, that is what they see and experience.

Plus they bundle different things together. A hunter doesn't know the difference between a Supernal Mage, a Hedge Mage, a changing breeds with spells, and a super shaman focused werewolf. They just see someone drawing power from the world and using it to manipulate the elements, or animals, or whatever.

I got off track. But yeah, I keep them as supernal guys that just never talk to anyone about what their stuff is actually called (because uh... that's a wisdom sin anyway). Plus the power level of my NPCs will always be set by what is going on, so I could use the basic mage rules and not worry about power level. It is just overly complex.

>>54833614
I honestly don't know about power levels in corssover campaigns. On the other hand the only one I've played was Mage/Demon. Neither splat seemed too overpowered compared to other. Truth be told we've played on low/medium levels of experience.

>>54833738
Yeah, I think part of why I'm never afraid of crossover is I only play starting xp games. High level play doesn't appeal to me.

>>54833693
My mages are all using Hedge Magic. My Hedge Magic is changed though.

Rituals are pretty powerful and thats the real reason no one fucks with mages. Sure you probably could beat up a mage but you will wake up 3 days later and your balls are a cancerous lump (the mage and his convent cursed you).

Atm I am trying to think about an artifact that allows the exploration of parallel worlds/timelines (probably a mirror), how it works and why the fuck my Vamp players should use it (and why the mages should allow this).

>>54833429
>>54833441
>>54833486
Thanks guys

So there never was a point in time when mages didn't exist ?

>>54833872
Take a look at the Seattle setting for Demon the Descent, they've got a pretty solid take on alternate timelines imo
In general DtD's approach to fractured reality is solid, and you can probably refluff most of the Demon specific parts

>>54834186
If there was, it is lost to time.

>>54833872
>>54834206
Also, I wouldn't mind if you posted what you homebrewed for Hedge Mages
Been wanting to try and balance it a bit but I never come up with anything satisfying

I'm trying to do something for Classic WoD/Obsidian Path/V:tM.
It's an optional guide on making disciplines. Primarily for Thin Blooded 15th generations known as Inceptors.

Lemme tell ya; it's a doozy. Making it possible so a player character could conceivably make any sort of reasonable discipline that a Storyteller might allow for the tone of their games. All while respecting the spirit of the game that says thin blooded caitiffs are too young and too weak to truly have powerful personal abilities.

Despite the fact, the very source material lists characters that learned disciplines that they should have had absolutely no access to from obscure bloodlines with proprietary abilities. Spontaneous manifestation within reason and desire, provided you have the EXP.

Add in the fact that Blood Sorcery is an enormous black box that I just don't know what to do with; I know it's an option, but since Thin Bloods can't even take a discipline passed 3, or at maximum 4 for 14th gens, mastering Thaumaturgy paths to begin another one won't work.

I pondered making a bunch of different Knowledge abilities specifically to studying aspects of the blood's powers, like duration of abilities, how long it takes to use them, whether or not using them takes blood at all, but I can't decide if they should be supernatural knowledges that just enhance the baseline of created powers, or if it should just be one single Knowledge.

It's so very many plates to consider and spin, /tg/. And its only real application would be for games centered around plucky young Thin Bloods trying to innovate their way out of demise at the hands of stronger, more basic Cainites.

If a vampire Blood have had Supernal origin and there was an Supernal symbol for "vampirism", would've the mages been able to tell? What if said symbol would've wanted to obscure himself? How that would affect mages and vampires relations?

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>>54834206
Would you mind describing it a little?

I honestly want to be able to have alternate settings without fucking up the mainworld.

Zombie apocalypse/Hitler won (Really interesting because several PCs fought for the Wehrmacht) episode of the week.

>>54834256
I am at vacation atm I can only phonepost. I could Post it in a few weeks if you are a regular. Its not much anyways. Mostly ordinary Hedge Magic with a little extra and gm fiat for the great magic artifacts/rituals.

>>54834365
... What?

How would a regular person go about finding a game of Mage?

>>54830413
lol paradox dice in 2e

>>54834444
1) Get friends
2) move out your parents basement
3) loose weight
4) shave the neck beard
5) run mage

>>54832330
I would assume werewolves outnumber vampires - they seem to control the territories outside of the cities, and are part of what makes it dangerous for vampires outside of urban areas, and well, it's a big country.

>>54834393
I'd love to see your stuff, I'm almost always monitoring this general (yes, it's painful)
So if you come around to it, please post away

As for Demon's take on alternate timelines, they usually treat them as "time bubbles" that depict an alternate reality, but that's contained both spatially (reduced reality, only the size of a city or even district, even though there could exist larger geographical settings) and temporally (meaning that time is on a loop, that can last from day or even a few hours, to a year or a decade)

In Seattle, the city is split into 4 boroughs, and each one has a separate alternate timeline that lasts for about a year, I think

Unless you have a means to evade the "reset" of the timeline (something your time-travelers would need) you start over again at the beginning of each new cycle with no memories of what happened in the previous cycle
This usually means that NPCs will do the same thing from one cycle to the next, but there are ways of pulling someone or something out of the loop to make permanent changes that will carry over to subsequent iterations of the fractured timeline
Right now I don't recall exactly what these ways are, but it would seem logical that any change effected by the time-travelers would be carried over
Having a way to create stable zones, sanctums out of time that aren't affected by the reset would be crucial

Of course for Hedge Mages this is pretty high end stuff

Can anyone give me a roleplaying example for a Hermetic mage casting an effect - lets say a fireball? Because I'm not yet sure about Hermetic "How does your character focus belief and practice into making it happen?" part.

>>54834538
Hey new yorker (or whatever you are), we don't have boroughs in Washington.

(I don't really care. But seeing that made me laugh)

>>54834444
Only snowflake dickweeds play Mage

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>>54834597
...Really? REALLY?

You really don't know how a Hermetic Paradigm would function?

>>54834616
I'm actually from Europe and just didn't remember the exact term they used in the book
I'll make a note of it

>>54834623
Well I played D&D before, but you can't just 'I cast Fireball.' like D&D in Mage... right?

>>54834538
Then I will post when I am back home.

This time bubble things sounds ideal for what I have in mind. Will give it look thanks.

Local and temporal restrictions are ideal for Monster of the week stuff.

>>54834655
You could. Though it would be an arcane verse (in Latin, for instance) instead of "I cast Fireball".

>>54834655
Nah you need to light 15 candles, draw a circle, stand in it, chant for 3 hours, get a lighter, get something flamable, light it, throw it, say the magic words and THEN you get your fireball

>>54834597
Anything from wands and staves to gestures and incantations, and so much more.

>>54834623
Just play mage awakening and be happier

>>54834695
That's the pragmatic way.

More experienced Mages won't need to do that. Nor is Hermetic magic solely about ritual work.

>>54834597
>>54834655

A Hermetic magician would conjure a fireball by grasping his amulet of Thoth whilst muttering archaic phrases in ancient Greek and making the necessary gestures with his other hand.

Ok, I get the Hermatics use verbal, somatic, and/or material components, but I'm not sure why Hermatics believe / or why actally - the effect happens when they go through that. (paradigm issue I guess?)

>>54834816
There's really a whole lot more than just a single belief in the Order of Hermes.

It's the most refined and encompassing of the Traditions. You can stick to the roots or bring in other philosophies. The former being the norm.

>>54834719
>More experienced Mages won't need to do that.
What if there was a more experience mage who did not need to do all the finaglery...but he does it anyway because he likes the atmosphere.

>>54834816
It could be anything from unifying with the divine or just believing in the science of magic. Or both.

>>54834842
Then he's being real to his Paradigm.

The most experienced of Mages still work rituals. They're not just limited to such in times of immediate need.

>>54834850
just not*

>>54825259
I don't agree with him in general, but he is right here (Constantine a superhero? Really?).

>>54834405
Which part of my post you didn't understand?

What would be the best way to make a Dread Power based on the Man-Thing?

I think the trickiest part of him would be his "ALL THAT KNOW FEAR WILL BURN AT THE MAN-THINGS TOUCH!" deal. The rest is just a big veggie tank.

>>54830861
>rigid, unfeeling, micromanaging, asshole of an investment banker

>Mastigos or Obrimos

>>54833388
>No new content to talk about

Hey, we could always talk about Secrets of the Covenants and A Thousand Years of Night.

It's a shame, Rose screwed the pooch, and both books suck..We might as well write off Requiem, and with no new books announced for Forsaken, our only hope for supplements is that Dave finally finishes Signs of Sorcery.

Changeling 2e should also be released soon, but given the David Hill and mass rewrite issues by Rose, I'm not optimistic.

>>54834206
>Take a look at the Seattle setting for Demon the Descent, they've got a pretty solid take on alternate timelines

Ironically, in that setting piece, a obsessively curious Acanthus might fuck everything up and release the alternate timelines.

>Mages be powerful, but they sure are assholes

>>54835760
I think the point is that even individuals personifying the Paths may in fact Awaken to something completely different.

As such, that rigid, unfeeling, micromanaging, asshole of an investment banker became an Acanthus.

>>54835988
>As such, that rigid, unfeeling, micromanaging, asshole of an investment banker became an Acanthus.

An Acanthus? I didn't know Awakenings were meant as a punishments...

>>54836017
>implying Acanthus aren't the master race

Yeah, BIG punishment there

>playing a caregiver type toreador in a campaign
>rest of players are little shits
>really want to domesticate them, but it wouldn't be in character

FML

>>54835843
NWoD will be kill soon, so it won't matter anyway.

So Storyteller's Vault has released.
This is WW's OGL setup.
www.storytellersvault.com
It allows you to publish your own material as PDF and sell it, using WW art, resources, etc. They have templates and such. Kinda interesting. You get a 50% royalty cut of every sale (standard in this type of thing).

If nothing else, they apparently have released the InDesign and a Word template that would make your fan stuff look like your favorite edition's books (core supplements, clanbooks, etc.)

I'm surprised this hasn't come up before.

>>54837202

Great, so there'll be more material from psychologically damaged fans about magical girls and furry fornication.

>>54837226
>Not wanting Magical Girls in WoD.
What's wrong with you, anon?

>>54837226
Hah. Yeah, the gems will be drowned out in a detritus of shit. But, the templates are at least worth downloading if you are doing any fan projects (it's just your drivethrurpg account).

>>54837202

>Oh my fucking crap, these template downloads are a mess. RARs within ZIPs, and obvious duplicated copy-paste names with contents swapped around.

>I can't wait to find out why the V20 template ZIP is 233MB, or why the revised clanbook templates are fucking nearly 700MB. I'm guessing the servers are getting slammed, it's hell trying to pull these down.

>Okay so the bulk of it for the V20 template is it has one enormous fuckoff file that no one participating in this program would need at that resolution, and then it sort-of duplicates it in a smaller but still enormous high-fidelity file. This is dumb.

Seems like it's off to a bit of a rough start, from what I can look up. Either way, the rules seem far too restrictive at the moment, and it's too early for the biggest draw it could have, 5e support.

>>54837417
The revised templates and art were decently sized at least, which is my go-to anyway. Eventually I'm sure they'll expand to 5e since, y'know, 5e isn't out yet.

>>54837202
This is going to be complete aids.

Twilight all over.

>>54834657
As far as Monster of the Week goes, I advise you to check out the section in Demon on Cryptids
They've got some really neat example creatures (reptilians ftw) and great rules to generate custom horror creatures

>>54837929
Maybe. A few of the things are already getting shit reviews, so you're probably right. I am just going to liberally abuse their templates for my own gaming group.

>>54838055
Ehh its mostly going to be simple stuff like Zombies. Thanks though.

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So as a werewolf, revealing yourself to mortals by changing shape is a harmony sin. So what about if a werewolf in human forms steps sideways into the Hisil in front of a mortal? From the mortal perspective they just faded away/vanished. Does that count as a violation of the Oath of the Moon?

>>54840237
>So as a werewolf, revealing yourself to mortals by changing shape is a harmony sin
in 1ed maybe. because Harmony was all about following the oath of the moon. Oath of the moon being the wolf ten commandments. but I'm calling bullshit on this one

2ed harmony is about balancing the spirit and human parts of yourself. 2ed has moved away from owod's ten commandments style of ethical philosophy

>>54828914
So here's one that always confused me. I didn't follow the Demon metaplot closely. What happened to Lucifer at the end of apocalypse when he copped the axe in the brain a second early? Was he just betrayed and things played out as normal? Or something else?

DaveB recently commented on the new Hunter 2e open development blog post about the new Code. He states clearly that it still doesn't protect Hunters without any supernatural merits (i.e., sleepers) from the Quiescence.

>Hunter tears

>>54841512
THEY CAN'T KEEP GETTING AWAY WITH IT

>>54841512
I just make all my Hunters Sleepwalkers. That still doesn't make them a serious threat, but they can create problems, if mages break the Lie too often.

>>54834850
>>54834842
Then he's from Discworld.

>>54841512
At some point there's going to be a hunter only merit called "fuck you daveb" which lets hunters keep the postive aspects of the sleeping curse, protecting them from the mental issues/memory. And probably break into his house to fuck his dog.

>>54841512
>>54841640
>>54841558
Don't most Hunters have access to Supernatural merits anyway? The Union, Network Zero, and Task Force: Valkyrie are the only ones that jump at me for not having alot of supers in their ranks.

>>54841845
Most Hunters aren't part of tier 2 or tier 3 organizations.

>>54841869
And would probably burn the witch down the street if she offered to teach them to use her electrokinesis merit to shoot lightning from their eyes.

>>54841901
If that witch would be an Awakened mage, the Quiescence would hide her magic. Even if she shot them with lightning from her eyes, they would deny it or forget it.

>>54841978
>electrokinesis merit

>>54841558
Sleepwalker is a measly 1 dot.

>>54842007

However. if they take the Sleepwalker Merit, besides the even minor XP cost and thematic issues, the Hunter also wouldn't increase Paradox risk.

Most Hunter fans want the Paradox benefit while still keeping the character's memories and not risking Integrity.

>Too bad, so sad
>Nobody said fighting the supernatural would be easy

>>54842083
>Most Hunter fans want the Paradox benefit while still keeping the character's memories and not risking Integrity.
We call that having your cake and eating it too.

>>54842083
If you want things that way, you can introduce a new merit: Abyssal Sleepwalker or somethings like that. You are Sleepwalker, but still cause Paradox as Sleeper. That, though, would make all such Hunters instruments of the Abyss and Lie, and closer to the actual villains.

>>54842109

Part of the problem is the "game balance" issue.

Hunters currently don't even rate as a nuisance to the majority of Awakened. Many Hunter fans therefore want and XP-free, still remain human, workaround to the Quiescence to make hunting mage at least possible, and to still cause Paradox so it's not total suicide.

However, if the Hunters are human, to permit such a exception would be to shit on the Mage rules (and create some narrative problems).

I guess Hunters will need to stick with easy prey, like vampires and b-level monsters.

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>>54828914
>Church father Irenaeus in the early second century basically coined the term heresy to weed out the D:tF-style belief that angels could fall because that would mean that God was fallible.
You fucking what m8?

>>54842109
>We call that having your cake and eating it too.

Cake: The Eating - GenCon 2017!

>>54842264
I would say ramp it up to eleven then. Haven a whole little Hunter faction who somehow make pacts with the Abyss to enhance the shard of the Abyss already in their souls, so that they have a more potent Paradox effect than just normal Sleepers.

I imagine if they did manage to get it to where they cause Paradox as it is in RAW, they would be disappointed because Paradox isn't an instant 'fuck you, you stupid idiot' to Mages anymore.

>>54842083
>>54842109
This is the same mentality held by some of the Fighter-fags over in D&D as well. They want to be relevant in high level play and steadfastly refuse anything that would make them more than an average irl person that happens to exercise semi-regularly. At best, they'll accept being Olympic level washouts.

It's maddening to realize that the ones most responsible for the shitty state of fighters, both in 3.pf and in the heads of a lot of gamers, is the fighter-fags themselves.

>>54841683
This is not a problem.

>>54842270
He wrote a book called "Adversus haereses" or "On the Detection and Overthrow of the So-Called Gnosis".

From Book 2, Chapter 2; "Those, moreover, who say that the world was formed by angels, or by any other maker of it, contrary to the will of Him who is the Supreme Father, err first of all in this very point, that they maintain that angels formed such and so mighty a creation, contrary to the will of the Most High God. This would imply that angels were more powerful than God; or if not so, that He was either careless, or inferior, or paid no regard to those things which took place among His own possessions, whether they turned out ill or well, so that He might drive away and prevent the one, while He praised and rejoiced over the other."

Heresy originally means "choice" or "sect", in reference to different Christian beliefs, but Iraeneus was the first to make it a Bad Thing(tm) where they should be excommunicated.

>>54842652
That's a refutation against the gnostic creation myth, not against the doctrine that angels can fall.
>Enoch, too, pleasing God, without circumcision, discharged the office of God's legate to the angels although he was a man, and was translated, and is preserved until now as a witness of the just judgment of God, because the angels when they had transgressed fell to the earth for judgment, but the man who pleased [God] was translated for salvation.

>>54842264
Hunters don't rate that well for like any full splat. There's a reason why they use dime store knock offs for antagonists. So you can play a game without having to deal with player death every other session.

>>54842884
Actually it is the game most prepared for player death every other session

Signs of Sorcery - Grimoires now in open dev blog!

>>54843509
All praises to the komodo.

>>54843509
DaveB rises again!

>>54843509
Hurray for more fodder for the Mage Supremacy engine. When are we putting the leechposters in the concentration camps?

Haunted Grimoires. It's everything I didn't know I wanted.

>>54843509
Long live the Komodo!

Long live Mage SUPREMACY!!!

What are the best weird animal dicks to shapeshift yourself with Protean ●●?
You can only do predators, scavengers, and plague carriers, so no horse cock. Dog/wolf is pretty obvious, what are some other good options? Snake?

>>54843715
Dolphin or Octopus

>>54843715
Don't cats have some barbed thing going on?

>>54843750
Don't you need to eat an animal before you can shapeshift into it? Sure, order some calamari (Do octopi even have dicks?), but how the hell is your average city Gangrel going to get dolphin blood? Some clandestine midnight raid on SeaWorld?

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>>54843509
I don't believe it.

>>54843715
Please don't make me google jaguar penis.

>>54843715
Some sort of reptile? Bird of prey?

>>54843814
Akshually the illegal trade of dolphins has been on the rise over the last twenty years so you spend some dosh on the black market for that prehensile dick.

>>54843849
>a bloodline of rapey gangrel jaguar warriors
is this too magical realm or can we go further

>>54843750
>>54843763
>>54843852
Cats are barbed
Dolphins are enormous and semi-prehensile
Some reptiles have hemipenis (Doubledongers)

I don't know octopi or bird of prey, though.

STOP TALKING ABOUT DICKS, YOUR TURD MONKEYS

>>54843882
Weird jaguar-morphing central american aztec-bloodline vampire clan sounds pretty cool, actually.
It's only magical realm when spiked dicks come into play.

>>54843917
Fine fine, which animal pussy would you guys want on your gangrel? Everyone picks horse but there's got to be other options out there

Grimoires: It sure feels good to be an Obrimos.

>>54843946
Can't do horse. It's not a predator, scavenger, or plague-carrier.

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>>54843900
Animal Fun FactL Octopus dick is a specialized tentacle for dispensing sperm

>>54843967
>horse
>not predator
that's what they want you to think
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZnYNmGMsU18

>>54843984
I mean technically you could argue that if you had a flesh-eating horse you could shapeshift into that, but you could also argue that LOTS of animals can qualify as 'disease carriers'.

I'd try and stay within a stone's throw of the spirit of the rules, either way.

>>54843974
So do octopi have nine tentacles or is it just one of the main eight tentacles doing double duty?

>>54842109
>>54842083
>>54842007
Most of the rules for 'you don't remember this' stuff has clauses in there for people who end up remembering more than usual. That's often how you end up with hunters in the first place.

They aren't just killing people on a whim. They remember too much, or bumped into something, and lunacy/the kiss/sleepers curse didn't work all the way for them.

Hunters don't need to be sleepwalkers, that doesnt really help them.

If they are going after a witch, they aren't going to ask for a demonstration.

>>54843629
You might want to think twice, actually Anon.
The entity within contests with Power + Finesse, not it's pathetic Rank and Influence.

So a Rank 5 entity might be throwing a dice pool of 24+ at that CoW.

>>54828914
>>54842270
>>54842652
Holy shit yo.
So many (2) people on this board know about the intricacies of early christian belief shaping.
Just wow.
I also find it rather peculiar that even though religion used to be so malleable back in the day right up until the middle ages, and the enlightenment when some churches declared the bible to be fallible, god to be this and that and just a force, and whatnot, but still identified as religious... But especially the earliest days, where beliefs were basically made non-canon by degree of particularly influential people, or even earlier where the earliest few christians literally sat down and thought about what they should actually make of some piece of scripture, and what some guidance was meant as...
And meanwhile today, if you do not believe tin the exact things that one specific guy who didn't even have first hand accounts (paul) wrote in his letters and don't believe in miracles, or the doctrine of trinity or propose that something in the bible might have been mistranslated, or even dare say that the bible should be reinterpreted to be reflective of current belief systems and knowledge and society, or even dare go as far as to say that you don't believe in a personified god, then you will both most likely not consider yourself christian/religious, or will be branded an atheist by the majority of believers.
This can be a very detrimental thing as this rigidity is why islam could become the dangerous basis for all sorts of crap that it is today.

Meanwhile in the olden days what amounts to fanfics were considered essentially semi canonical not as factual depictions of events, but as yet another way to unite behind a god/concept/person/principle and collectively be a fan of it.

How and why did this change happen? Is it just an inevitable consequence of a larger amount of people being interconnected so the malleability of the religion decreases? And new interpretations are relegated to roleplaying games?
Hm.

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It seems DaveB has been battling a powerful Master of Fate over the length of a year.

I'm glad to see that he's back in action.

>>54844389
That is child abuse

>>54844486
Of who, the young komodo?

Also, fuck DaveB.

>>54844486
More like komodo abuse.

>>54844524
DIE YOU WRETCHED CURR

>>54844547
Matt is way better than Dave case in point demon compared to mage

>>54844371
>don't believe in miracles
>don't believe in the trinity
>don't believe in a personified god
Why on earth would you call yourself a christian if you hold these beliefs? Eat shit heretic

What can I do a a Spirit mage in Sundered World game?

How do I convince my ST to let me play Purified?

>>54845449
Dave is way better than Matt case in point mage compared to demon

>>54846053
Trinity is a pagan belief just like Mary worship and Christmas

>>54846910

How did we start talking about christian theology again? What is this hermetics stuff about? Is this an oWoD thing?

>>54846053
What he said>>54846684