Has a bad guy was good the whole time ever been done well?

>>54789929
Vader.

>>54790001
Vader wasn't good the whole time, though. He was legitimately bad right up until Luke's insistence that redemption was still possible finally got through to him.

Are you implying Pyramid Head was good?

He's lawful evil at best.

>>54790544
He was originally a manifestation of James' desire for punishment, attacking James, his fears, and internalized misogynistic views (seriously, most of the monsters aside from the very male Pyramid Head being vaguely female are that way for a reason). It's rather Freudian, whether you agree with his theories or not.

>>54790544
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=BnvyKHMBipc

>>54790936
All of that is true, but whether or not those manifestations are helping him, they are still malevolent beings in their own right. They will gladly kill James should he move away from the straight and narrow, so to speak, and if Maria being her own being before being influenced by the town to hunt James dick is any indication, the monsters have autonomy of their own. So those violent monster murder rapes could very well be purposeful on Pyramid Head's part, and not just a town hivemind playing with puppets.

>>54789929
Uh, Total Recall.

>>54790990
Pyramid head is the only monster we see that attacks other monsters

We think he isn't connected to the town, rather helps james

>>54791063
Of course, your self-destructive tendencies given life by a demon-town are always going to be very nice. Even if they are born of your sense of right.

>>54789929
Schindler's List.

>>54791038
But Hauser was an asshole. Even Quaid agrees.

>>54791063
I don't know about that. All the monsters are connected to James, but they still are made physical because of the town. Every creature is supposed to play a part in James either redeeming himself or being punished. Pyramid Head's role is, as others said, to represent a punisher and James anger and sexual urges. In the end the town and the monsters are trying to "help" James and everyone else it finds, but their form of therapy is still incredibly violent and deranged. If James messes up, he's going to either die, kill himself, or wind up repeating things over and over again until he gets it right. That's why I can't say Pyramid Head or anything the town makes is "good."

>>54791157
Yeah. He was a bad guy, but Quad was good the whole time.

Just because my example doesn't apply to your intentions doesn't mean it doesn't apply to the sentence as written.

>>54791189
It's rather dependent on how you define "good". You could argue that the town is "Good" because it seeks to make better people out of those who are trapped by it. You could say it is evil based on the methods it uses.
But that's to say nothing of the local cults and some of the spirits around there.

>>54789929
Does the bad guy is a good guy too count or is it purely the twist factor you're aiming for?

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No ones going to say this?

>>54791277
That we can agree on. It's more complicated than just good or evil, it's how you take it.

The cult and ghosts all tie into things to, but that too really depends on how you like to explain why the town is haunted in the first place. Either the town is haunted specifically because of the cult's craziness summoning demons (the Order's faith is very much in line with the town's super strict sense of morality), or the town was always supernatural and creating things based on people's psyches, and started creating the gods and demons we see in 1 and 3 because the cult believed in those things so badly.

>>54791277
Do you think silent hill is purely mental, and that James is actually metaphorically fighting his demons, and how well he copes with his grief is dependent on how well he fights said demons?

>>54790268
I've always been bothered by this aspect of Vader's arc. The dude goes on like a two decade killing spree, probably murdering hundreds of sentient beings with his own hands and actively collaborating in the death of millions more, and we're just supposed to accept that he's "redeemed" because he chose his dumb kid over the Emperor? What about all those other kids he slaughtered?

>>54791396
I truly think that silent hill is an entity shaped by will, the issue being that most humans are pretty messed up. This caused it to become the hellscape we know and love.

I believe that it still wants to help people and that monsters like pyramid head are the will of the town

>>54791468
Well you don't have to worry if he's really redeemed, he's not gonna fuckin relapse cause of how dead he is. For at least 10 seconds he really meant it and he's stuck with that alignment shift forever.

>>54791475
That's the theory I like to follow too. Having it be based on will power and belief is a lot more interesting than just sticking with the complicated cult stuff. I do think the cult stuff is cool, but mostly as an extreme example of the town going nuts when too many messed up people are thrown in the mix.

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>>54789929
Illidan Stormrage, besides a bunch of the weird shit in WoW, where they ret-conned a bunch of his motivations, turning him into stupid-evil, before finally re-conning that back to anti-hero.

He basically only ever tried to do the right thing, but his older brother Furion was a pedantic asshole who didn't trust him, and fucked him over.

>When you first meet him, he's a prisoner for having fucked up the world. You find out he was only trying to save the Kaldorei lives, and his "crime" was bogus because his brother had a different opinion.

>Then it looks like he's gone power hungry, eating the Skull of Guldan, and becoming a half demon. Then you find out he maintains all of his self control, and only uses the power to fight evil.

>Then it looks like he's raising an evil army from the bottom of the ocean, but you find out the Naga were repentant for their past crimes, and only wanted a normal life.

>You think he's trying to use the Eye of Sargeras to destroy the world. Turns out he's only trying to destroy Ner'zhul before he becomes Lich Ling.

>You think he has allied himself with the arch demon Kil'jaden, turns out he was only trying to get close to assassinate him.

Literally his entire story is "Everyone thinks I'm evil, but I only try to do the right thing."

>>54791581
shouldn't have gone tiefling

>>54791403
It's kind of both, I think, but closer to metaphysically fighting them rather than literally fighting them. I do think that James gets hurt when something attacks him, but it's been established that normal people (best example, Laura) do not see anything supernatural.

Why is Pyramid Head sexy?

He's covered in nasty blood and shit and filth, he has some freaky mutant head that he keeps covered up 24/7, and never speaks a single word.

And yet he turns me on so much.

Why?

>>54791581
You'd think people would have figured it out by now.

>>54791657
He is sheer toxic masculinity, you might have a thing for that

>>54791657
Cus ur a faget lmao.

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>>54791357
A true patriot

>>54791283
"All along" implies OP is after the twist factor

>>54791674
>sheer toxic masculinity
You need to go back to tumblr.

>>54791657
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/features/10003-Love-Triangle

Give this article a read. There are a lot of people, especially women, who get really turned on by Pyramid Head. It's mainly due to people having a danger fetish. Serial killers, monsters, baddies that can be "changed", drives people nuts.

>>54791718
That is legitimently what he is, he rapes, uses a giant sword, is completely efficient.

He is actually the toxic masculinity of James manifest

>>54791725
It's like how dudes love yanderes

>>54791718
I mean, fuck feminism, yeah, but if those words ever applied to anything, it's Pyramid Head. He is man's bestial nature turned up to 11. Fuck, murder, repeat.

>>54791793
Huh. You've got a good point there, skippy.

>>54791718
You know just because certain words and phrases get used a lot by people you don't like doesn't mean those words and phrases cease to have any meaning or application?

>>54791630
And in the case of 2 some people see different things for example most monsters are only seen by James, but ones like the abstract daddy are tied to Angela and not James, Eddie even says he hasn't seen pyramid head he is purely a James monster. To tie into this the state of the town is different for the 3 of them as well, Angela seeing fire, Eddie seeing the green fog and meat, and James getting the rust and grime.

>>54791658
Yeah, maybe after, IDK, the second time he saved the world, or the third time he killed an evil demi-god.

>>54792055
Mmhmm. Each Silent Hill experience is unique to the victim at hand. Sometimes they interact, sometimes they don't.

In fact, last time I checked the Abstract Daddies, which are tied to Angela, won't even attack James in game unless James attacks first, since they're not meant for him in the first place.

>>54791468
Christ forgives everyone anon, no matter what they've done.

As his sibling's, we're expected to be like him and reconcile with everyone else.

Think of Luke as the true Christ of Star Wars, capable of doing what his father, the Star Wars version of big G sired by the Spirit of God, aka the Force, could not, because his father possessed too much love for a single woman.

Really the whole series is a reflection of the rise and fall of Rome, the split of Rome, and Christianity.

I want so say Handsome Jack, but...

>>54792096
This is only for 2 though 1, 3, and 4 are all specific mostly because of the cult. ! was specifically the nightmare that Alessa endeared for 8 years being projected on the town, 3 was the demon fetus in Heathers body projecting the nightmare, and 4 was Walter Sullivans personal world created for the ritual. Everything after that doesn't matter narrative wise.

>>54792629
Handsome Jack really isn't as much of a hero as he or his fans say he is. And I'm not just talking about his "doing bad things for a greater good", because that point is really muted when you see him in action. He enjoy doing bad things, he takes pleasure in hurting people and being sinister. His "I'm the good guy" thing really comes off as him just enjoying the sense of glory a title like that gives him, and some slight justification for the amount of suffering he causes to others.

>>54791357
Villain Sue

>>54792656
You're right, there's a lot in those games that really reinforces the cult thing being the major cause of everything that happens in the town.

but it's honestly boring and as bad as some of the post 3/4 games can be, trying to put more focus on the psychological/unknowing supernatural elements that are so creative to the series above the cult details was a smart call, in my opinion.

Also specifically for the post you replied to, each other world is still unique to people regardless of cult activity or not. 1's is Alessa's, 2's is James, 3's Heathers, 4's Walter's.

>>54792131
>Really the whole series is a reflection of the rise and fall of Rome, the split of Rome, and Christianity.

Can't believe I never noticed this, good catch anon.

Incidentally, from a Taoist perspective, the post VI politics should have splintered the galaxy into a diverse, trade-heavy, politics-light mash of thousands of different independent states. I guess the center vs periphery dialectic was easier for western writers/audiences.

>>54791468
honestly the parallels between the throne room duel in VI and the invisible hand duel in III only serve to cheapen vader's journey

his decision to change sides and off palps seems more selfish than anything else since by then it's obvious that sheev is just trying to pull the same shit he did with dooku

>>54792750
You do make a good point on the unique worlds I guess I was mostly repeating what was said.

And yeah I myself agree it was a better direction unfortunately anyone outside the original team can pull it off. Although I would say that style is against the idea a bit as the majority of the series has the cult as a central theme with 2 as the odd one, Really I think it goes into how much went into 2 if you watch the making of Silent Hill 2 they put a lot of effort and detail into everything.

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>>54792827
Honestly if I had a ton of money I would buy silent hill and make an awesome game.

I fill like I could do better than a bunch of the crews they are hiring these days

And metal gear, and then I would hire Kojima(just to rub salt in the wound)

>>54792827
That's why I think that, were the series to continue in a halfway decent form (which probably won't happen since Silent Hill's last best hope died when Kojima left Konami), the cult elements could still have played an important factor to the series while still going towards the elements that made 2 work out so well. Just go with the idea that the cult's huge numbers and will, along with Alessa's psychic shenanigans, left a permanent corruptive impact on the town.

>>54792857
I'm honestly just waiting for Konami to go under so that a more competent company can get it;s IP's.

>>54792898
I'm pretty sure that is the idea the 2 runs on. They mention that the area was considered sacred by the Native Americans in the area and the idea is that the cult and their demon god corrupted this power.

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Roy Batty.