Paizo Games General /pgg/ (also /pfg/)

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Archery questions.

Magic arrows will have their properties stack with properties of a magic bow, but not their enhancement bonus... right? If I take a +1 Flaming bow and shoot +1 Shocking arrows from it, the arrows hit enemies as +1 Flaming Shocking arrows? What if the enhancement bonus on the arrow is higher than the bow's enhancement bonus?

>>54788164
>If I take a +1 Flaming bow and shoot +1 Shocking arrows from it, the arrows hit enemies as +1 Flaming Shocking arrows?
Correct

>What if the enhancement bonus on the arrow is higher than the bow's enhancement bonus?
You use the higher of the two bonuses. They do not stack.

>>54788164
You use the higher of the enhancement bonuses for attack/damage.
According to recent FAQ, however, for purposes of ignoring DR by enhancement (e.g. how +3 lets you ignore DR/Cold Iron and DR/Silver), only the actual arrow's enhancement counts, but not the bow's.

>>54788209
But weapons confer their bonus to projectiles. A +5 bow would be incapable of doing fuck-all against DR if non-magical arrows can't get through.

>>54788200
If I have a bow that has an effective +10 enhancement bonus (5 from actual enhancement, 5 from abilities) and arrows with an effective +10 bonus (5 from actual enhancement and 5 from abilities the bow doesn't have) then what? DO the arrows have an effective +15 bonus because of the +5 actual enhancement bonus and +10 abilities, or do some of the abilities get turned off because weapons can't have an effective enhancement bonus greater than +10?

>>54788209
Huh. Well, good thing Clustered Shots exists.

>>54788252
FAQ are retarded. More at 11.

>>54788252
Paizo are morons, thanks for realizing it.

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>>54788094
I once played an elven Sandman Bard who worked as a publicist for a Barbarian in a PF/Dragon Age game.

Other than that, I'm always the DM.

In the PF/Forgotten Realms game I'm running, I'd like to work for the Mercanes.

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I have a question about travel.

I'm currently running a desert campaign for my group. They've decided to travel from the relative safety of the coast to head inland and explore the continent. I've made the inland desert a fairly nasty place; little water or food, almost no wood for fires. The party has purchased camels for travel, and they just realized that water management is going to be a big issue. I looked at the rules and googled a lot, but camel travel doesn't seem to include much for overland travel. Can anyone tell me how fast a party of 6 on camels can travel? The vast majority of the desert they will explore is virgin, and there really aren't trails or roads to take. Also if a barrel weighs 30 lbs,, how much does a full barely weigh? I want water consumption and usage to be a factor for a little while, at least until they get more powerful. In addition to that, they have an auto-cartographer item that maps terrain in eyesight. Does mapping terrain slow daily travel? Any suggestions to slow daily travel? I'd prefer crossing the desert to be a major sort of accomplishment, rather than just get through it quickly.

>>54788133

That is why I decided to go through and upvote all the mechanical questions.

>>54788348
Has your campaign considered bringing at least 1 caster with the Create Water cantrip?

>>54788306
I gave the PCs in a game I ran a magic bell that would summon a mercane, because most of that campaign was going to be spent out in the wilderness and away from magic item shops. But then they never used it, because the one PC who carried the bell was convinced that it must be cursed or that mercanes (which the entire party failed their knowledge checks on) are evil, because the bell was found in the possession of an evil cleric. Later, when that PC's player left the campaign and his PC left the party, the bell came up as the other PCs went through some stuff that he left behind. Since they hadn't seen a shop peddling anything more magical than a potion of shield, the party was excited to use it. The mercane sold them a wand of CLW, a wand of Infernal Healing, an Ironman suit, a few +2 weapons, and some other bits.

But they're still terrified of the mercane, because I described it as, "a tall, blue-skinned man whose hands have too few fingers and head has too many eyes" and now they think mercanes are some Cthulhu Mythos thing.

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Who else wants to be a crew of undead pirates preying on the weak fleshlings?

>http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items/wondrous-items/wondrous-items/a-b/amulet-of-hidden-strength
Why is this so cheap? what am I missing?

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>>54788348
A camel's movement speed is 50 ft., so it can travel 5 miles in an hour while walking, and 40 miles in a day.

>http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/animals/herd-animals/camel
>http://www.d20pfsrd.com/gamemastering/exploration-movement/

Here are some desert hazards:

>http://www.d20pfsrd.com/gamemastering/environment/wilderness/terrain/desert-terrain/

>>54788534
Once per day?

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>DHB posts his intrigue character
>has a Christmas cake daughter
>has several other marriageable aged daughter
Delicious

Sorry if this isn't the place to ask but does anyone have "In the Company of Giants?" I think it was Rite Publishing that made it. I'm using what's on the SRD but there are apparently feats that aren't on there.

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>>54788550
You have no idea, kid

>>54788545
Fuck, I need to sleep more, I dismissed the first sentence as flavour and not rules and didn't even read it.

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>>54788523

>Being pirates when you can be conquerors

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>>54788523
>>54788597

>>54788645
I want to play a mandroid technoskeleton!

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>>54788597
>This pleases the skeleton king.

>>54788597
Why are those skeletons being led by a fleshy? Has the skull image on his armor fooled them?

>>54788674
Those are progressive skeletons. They are not shallow bones, they see the true beauty within.

Heard the starfinder full corebook got leaked

>>54788523
The rules don't cover nearly enough for that.

There are many questions people still have in regards to basic mechanics especially when it comes to ships and vehicles.

Things like "why can't a point-weapon capable of hitting micromissiles target a vesk in power-armor"

Or "who the fuck thought cheek pouches made up for all the drawbacks?"

>>54788597
Why would you want take freedom away when you could be freedom personified ?
bad taste anon.

>>54788674
Despite the name and what the title there promises, the series actually had skeletons as the bad guys, and the fleshy there was the main character who wins against them with light and stuff.

Someone should ask what the fuck is up with envoys and exocortexes on that reddit AMA.

They'll probably ignore it, but at least get those sycophants too dumb to realize there's a problem to notice it maybe.

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>>54788688
So what do they think of Wolverine, then?

>>54788705
How drool.

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>>54788597
>>54788523
Why not both?

Play the Githyanki Incursion campaign, but do it from the other side as a group of undead privateers under Queen Vlaakith.

Gimme some starfinder background inspiration.

Wherr would you go to start a new life?

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>>54788495
Yes, they have a cleric and he will almost certainly always prepare create water. However, I've made the creation of water something very rare and coveted. (Decanters of endless water are items that kingdoms have fought and died for.) His cleric's backstory involves extra dimensional travel, so he is actually one of the rare beings that can create water. (This will lead to interesting encounters later, where others will want to imprison him and use him as a water maker.) I won't infringe on my player's abilities, but otherwise water is rare. Also, the player isn't always present and I refuse to play characters when players are gone. So they won't always have water from him.

>>54788539
Thank you very much. I was confused looking at the charts earlier, and frankly was about to just house rule some things. So this means if the camel can move 40 a day, it can move 20 over trackless terrain. Does that make the encumbered camel's speed 35 feet assuming heavy encumbrance?

>>54788737
Into the back bunk with a hotass engineer.

>>54788726
They see the the Venus de Milo of their time trapped by a malevolent being who wishes to trap the greatest work of art within the confines of his personal gallery of flesh.

>>54788726
>How drool.

Droll, Anon. It's spelled "droll"

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>>54788737
What are the options?

>>54788597
DA-DA-DA-DA-DA-DA, DA-DA-DA!

>>54788785
That guy on the bottom right is my kind of guy, especially if the handcuffs and flog are for that cutie

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It seems that Owen K.C. Stephens has clarified the matter on grenades here:

http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2ui71&page=2?Can-grenades-be-retrieved#75
>Owen K. C. Stephens Developer, Starfinder Team

>Since I just wrote this out for the AMA anyway:
>Grenades are ranged weapons. Their description on page 183 is clear on that point. As a result, they use Strength as the bonus to their attack rolls. Grenades are heavy, and getting them within 5 feet of where you want them is about heft of throw as much as anything, and that's how thrown weapons work (the same is true of alchemist's fire in Pathfinder, for example).
>Grenades do NOT have the thrown special weapon quality. This means they do not add Strength modifier to damage, and are not reusable. While science-fi does have some reusable grenades in it, the general definition of grenade defines a one-use item. If we ever opt to have reusable grenades, we'll call them out as exceptions.
>The save DCs for grenades is based on Dexterity, and this is where your finesse of proper placement comes in.
>Sadly, that is handled incorrectly in a a spot in the book. It's a known issue, and one we'll address sometime after the release date.

Does this not make grenades somewhat weak, being terribly expensive and also MAD between Strength and Dexterity?

Can someone have Weapon Specialization in grenade launchers, thereby gaining the level-based damage bonus to grenades? That would be one way to salvage the damage-based grenades, at least.

>>54788781
How drool.

>>54788785
Top Left, Top Right, Middle Right, and Bottom Left have the best tastes.

>>54788818
The grenade meme is finally over.

>>54788818
They're not THAT weak, though. Bows were the best ranged option in Pathfinder and they required MAD Strength and Dexterity. Additionally, your Dex/Str goes up very quickly if you dump some attribute bonuses into them- any score under 17 gets a +2, not just a +1.

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>>54788740
It takes more weight for a camel to reach heavy encumbrance.

>http://www.d20pfsrd.com/alignment-description/carrying-capacity/
>Quadrupeds can carry heavier loads than bipeds can. Multiply the values corresponding to the creature’s Strength score from Table: Carrying Capacity by the appropriate modifier, as follows: Fine ×1/4, Diminutive ×1/2, Tiny ×3/4, Small ×1, Medium ×1-1/2, Large ×3, Huge ×6, Gargantuan ×12, Colossal ×24.

A medium load for a camel is 400 lbs, and a heavy load is 600 lbs.

>http://www.d20pfsrd.com/alignment-description/movement/#Table-Terrain-and-Overland-Movement

The speed drops to 20 miles a day.

Yes, the encumbered camel's speed is 35 ft. for a medium or heavy load.

Now that I've typed all that out, I feel like there's a math error.

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>>54788731
Someone needs to make this game.

>>54788760
How hot we talking?

>>54788818
Prices need to be adjusted, but (extrapolating from IRL) grenades are more for throwing around corners, into holes, down stairs...not as a primary weapon.

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>>54788818
>>54788855
>>54788864

Then again, now that I consider it, a grid intersection is merely AC 5. As such, it seems that any would be grenade-user should stock up on Dexterity; the attack roll will matter only during the earliest of levels.

That still makes grenades rather cost-ineffective. Will a grenade launcher with Weapon Specialization be the only way to try to save them?

>>54788818
Hopefully they'll answer some of the ship questions. I'm also curious about deadly aim and gunnery.

So I'm trying to prep for a Starfinder game, planning on playing a Human with the Spacefarer Theme, cause I'm trying to go for a Starlord-esque Character but I'm not sure what Class would be the best to Achieve this. I was thinking Operative -> Bounty Hunter but not sure if that is close.

Any thoughts?

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>>54788911
I'd settle for something on this level

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>>54788910
I'm too busy barley farming, and I don't have the Dungeon and Polyhedron magazines with the campaign information for the Incursion campaign.

>>54788737
College? Space College?

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>>54788990
engines make me hot too

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>>54788811
>>54788855

where's the pdf?

Setting up a new game with an old group. One of my players wants to be a skeleton warrior, with an axe. What's the best way to do this? Off the top of my head the only skeleton PC's I know of are Death Knights from 3.something, and Liches.

>>54788990
Kaylee is cute! CUTE!

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>>54788904
I think that math is right from what I've gathered. The party will likely be encumbered with a medium/ heavy load most of the time, and they'll be going through trackless land except for a few choice areas. So that encumbered movement further drops mileage. They won't be within light load range except for when they've drained their water barrels. Which brings me to another dilemma.
I looked at the waterski in the ultimate equipment, and a waterski weighs 4 lbs full, or 2 lbs empty. They will be using water barrels, and I can't find any place where it says the weight of water per gallon. I also don't see anywhere that says how much a barrel holds. In hot environments, they'll need double water rations. (They plan to travel at night to mitigate this.) Any clue as to how I ought to measure water weight? A gallon of water weighs a bit more than 8 lbs. That would mean 16 lbs for 2 gallons of water per day when it's especially hot. And that's not including their camels. I assume that camels just drink the same amount of water as any character needs, but I'll probably alter that as needed.

As another note, if I can't find an answer I'll just play it by ear.

>>54789130
Best bet is to use the Skeletal Champion template somehow. Maybe take away the racial HD.

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/templates/skeletal-champion-cr-1/

>>54789130
>letting a PC play something that's immune to just about everything
Don't.

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Starfinder campaign WHEN

>>54789130
Can't really play an actual Skeleton, but a Vigilante with Guise of Unlife will let you be a skeleton on all levels except physical.

>>54789259
When you start one.

>>54789248
Hmm. What stuff are skellingtons NOT immune to?

>>54789351
Turn Undead

>>54789351
Osteoporosis

>>54789259
Starfinder campaign featuring Aqua WHEN

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>>54789351
Blunt objects

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>>54789396
featuring perhaps.

but never starring.

>>54789481
I want to make Aqua cry!

>>54789494
Just take her booze away.

>>54789562
Or threaten to kill her ice elemental!

>>54788695
>Expecting quality design from Paizo

You fags enjoy this pain, admit it.

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Is it just me, or are shirren perhaps the most potent non-human race in the core rulebook?

They have blindsense, limited telepathy, a bonus to a couple of skills, and 5e-style advantage on a single d20 roll once per day.

The blindsense, in particular, will be particularly useful.

On another note, is it just me, or will an awful lot of casting-focused mystics and technomancers spring for Heavy Armor Proficiency as their first feat? A human, half-elf, or half-orc mystic or technomancer can have Dexterity 14 and Intelligence/Wisdom 18 and wear heavy armor.

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Tell me what your first weapon in Starfinder will be!

I don't wanna know race, I don't wanna know theme, I just wanna know what your character will be bringing into battle!

>>54789664
Good old-fashioned semi-automatic pistol.

>>54789664
A stick.

>>54789664
Railgun. Always a railgun

>>54789664
>>54789777
This anon gets me.

>>54789664
I want a laser rifle, or a gyrojet!

>>54788695
>Or "who the fuck thought cheek pouches made up for all the drawbacks?"
Ya know I keep hearing ratfolk are shit but never why. The only demerit I can see is that they get 2 racial HP, but that won't really matter past 1st level.

>>54789777
>>54789784
Friendly reminder that the Railguns are actually known as "Magnetar" rifles, and are actually really good!

>>54789793
I was just looking at them and thinking they seem like one of the better races mechanically. Being able to stand up from prone as a swift action seems like a nice ability in a game where everyone's using guns. Not worth playing a cartoon rat for, but not bad.

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>the cabal is using voice chat

>>54789664
The longest, flashiest, and impracticalest weapon available!

Probably a plasma rifle!

>>54788695
What drawbacks?

>>54789804
What page is that on, anon?
And are they coilguns, gaussian linear acceleration, or some other form of electromagnetic induction fueled tools of destruction?

>>54789733
Fucking munchkin.

>>54789664
A whip-like heat rod.

>>54788985
Any thoughts, I'm still not sure what would be the best class to make the character Starlord-esque.

So, Starfinder doesn't have any form of matter fabrication in it, right? No 3D printing of weapons or food assembled from stock on a molecular level in minutes for your convenience?

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>>54789846

>>54789846
What's wrong with voice? Are you some poorfag who can't afford a mic or a faggot who thinks his voice sounds weird?

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>>54789872
Page 176, also known as Page 91 in the PDF!

>>54789966

The illusion's been broken: We can never pretend to be cute anime girls around each other again.

(I don't mind much knowing there's a man behind the other side of the screen, personally though)

>>54788985
Operative is the handsome space rogue class is it not?

>>54790009
>never pretend to be cute anime girls again

bitch watch me

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>>54789966
>Asking a pathfinder faggot if they're a faggot

>>54790023

Shall we take it to PMs, sweetheart?

>>54790020
It's also maybe the strongest class in Starfinder.

>>54790020
Operative seems more like the Government Black Ops to me, but as I was looking over Envoy, Envoy with the Scoundrel Archetype might be a good way to go about it.

>>54789974
I'm a bit behind on my knowledge...
The numbers directly to the right of the names are item levels and price, correct?
It's a shame that it seems to be mainly for mid level play, and that there's such a massive gap for earlygame equips.
That being said, I do like that it's automatic. Harkens back to the ol' pulse rifle.

>>54788985
>>54790020
>>54790042
Don't play Envoy.

It's the weakest class.

>>54790035
Maybe later, FT9 is starting like now

>>54790035
If you're thirsty anon you should drink water, not semen.

>>54790029
What did they mean by this picture?

>>54790046
>The numbers directly to the right of the names are item levels and price, correct?

Item level just means that's the expected level to find it, not the level you need to be to use it. A level 1 schmuck can technically use a Paragon Gyrojet rifle without any penalties.

>>54790057
Which really sucks. I wanted to play a corporate professional type but the operative can do all of that better while also being a subpar soldier.

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How do we unshittify the envoy?

>>54790057
Hmm, Operative with the Trailseeker Archtype could also work prehaps.

>>54790094
Hmmm. Still a bit disconcerting that apparently shooty bois aren't supposed to find new weapons for 5 extremely common levels of play, but I suppose that just gives DMs more room to give lower leveled players coolio gear

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>>54790093
Have you considered that some people just post pictures for no reason at all?

Are you so deep into autism that everything has to have some hidden purpose?

>>54790114
By rebuilding the entire system from scratch.

>>54790114
Wait for Envoy Unchained or a new class that does their thing better.

>>54790137
is that calvin and hobbes

>>54789908
That's literally what crafting is.

>>54790114
Just give it bardic performance, the rules for it are on p505

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Just spitballing odd ideas.

What happens to Pathfinder if I remove Core classes, and only allow the Base (alchemist, witch, etc) and Advanced (arcanist, bloodrager, etc) classes? Any oddities pop out? Any character archetypes suddenly don't exist but need to for one reason or another?

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>>54790193
Take your time anon.

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Let's settle this once and for all.

Level 9 Paizo only fighter VMC barbarian (Pathfinder 15 point buy) vs. level 9 soldier (Starfinder 10 point buy), white room.

Both use their own game's WBL, gear, action economy, full attacks, feats, HP systems, etc.

Who wins?

Assume a magic weapon isn't "archaic" or whatever.

They start 20 feet from each other.

>>54790250
No, intact the game is probably healthier that way.

>>54790292
I wanna fuck this cute woof

>>54790297
Really? How's that?

I love listening to people talk system.

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>>54790250
There might not be any class left that can cast the 7-9 level Druid spells, or any Paladin spells.

>>54790023
Calm down Broodie

>>54790344
Is...is that bad?

>>54790272
that's cool

>>54790406
Only if facing ridiculously high level creatures.

Really, if you want to make Pathfinder more wieldy the best two options are to use the NPC classes (minus Commoner which is demonstrably worse than the others) or to use Microlite20 (the best option if you must use a D20 variant).

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>>54790470
>Really, if you want to make Pathfinder more wieldy the best two options are to use the NPC classes (minus Commoner which is demonstrably worse than the others) or to use Microlite20 (the best option if you must use a D20 variant).

I haven't had this good a laugh in a while, nice one anon

>>54790321
Wizards, Druids, and Clerics are some of the most BS classes in the game and don't really add much thematically. They can all be kinda simulated by the Alchemist/Magus/Arcanist/Witch, Hunter, Warpriest/Oracle/Witch/Shaman/Inquisitor with minimal fuss.

Rogues, Fighters, and Rangers get dunked on by Alchemists and Slayers.

Barbarians turn into blood ragers. If you want a "mundane" Barbarian just be a Slayer.

Monks can be emulated by Brawlers.

Fuck the only class that lacks a counterpart is probably Sorcerer and Bard.

>>54790518
>Fuck the only class that lacks a counterpart is probably Sorcerer and Bard.
Arcanist and Skald.

>>54788985
>>54789895
Only seen the first movie, so can't speak to other elements. But he looks like a pretty quintessential Envoy relying on wits and charm to get scrap out whatever advantage he can. Nice synergy for teamwork with the rest of the team, but you also get to be the face of the party and can do everything from pick-pocketing, socializing (Slick Customer/Convincing Liar), piloting, schmoozing (Well Informed) or whatever.
He uses pistols, so small arms suits you fine, class gets you all that you really need in terms of weapons. Light armor as well describes his equipment.

Has leader qualities, with commands, all the charisma/face skills you would want. Furthermore, get Expertise talents which make you superior at all of the face skills as well as making yourself unpredictable.

Outlaw, Ace Pilot, or Bounty Hunter are all possible traits depending on what elements you want to emphasize, and you won't be too bad out of the others thanks to the huge amount of skill points you get.

>>54788725
It seems that most of the questions that challenged their decisions regarding the envoy, ysoki, grenades, etc were ignored.

>>54790551
>Arcanist
Don't get bloodlines,aren't spontaneous, or Charisma based. Sorcerer's also don't use spell books.

>>54790553
Yeah, its why I was leaning Envoy Scoundrel, cause even in GoTG2 that is still kinda his shtick.

Though I hear others say its underpowered but I'm more concerned with the character theme than being the strongest party member.

>>54790553
Rocket and Groot are the Bounty Hunters, Starlord's absolutely an Outlaw.

>>54790250
>>54790518
>Brawler
>A replacement for Monk

Brawler was dunked on by its main class feature being whored out, and by UMonk being better outside of trash PB. URogue has a niche, even if it's a shitty niche. Dropping Bard is dumb.

>>54790591
Does get bloodlines with the right archetype, Preps a sorcerer spell list per day that it casts from spontaneously. I'll grant you the spellbooks and charisma based part, though; at the same time, they still want high charisma for several abilities.

>>54790598
Honestly, I think Outlaw or Scoundrel could work for a Starlord-esque character.

>>54790648
>>54790598
Rather just Outlaw because I clearly know how to words.

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Is it a good idea to always charge if you have the chance?

>>54790695
Unless you're going to just get dogpiled while your AC's low, yes.

>>54790695
No. Sometimes you don't want to close with the enemy.


>>54790517
You know it's true.

>>54790734
If you give everyone fighter feat progression, maybe

So, question. I've got a witch that worships the Green Mother of the First World, and she wants to become a Fey, probably through a long complex ritual that has a good chance of killing her.

What happens if a Fey touches the Starstone? As far as I know, Fey can't be deities, even the Eldest are more like, exceptionally powerful but *only* on their plane.

>>54790801
Anything can technically become a god. The trick is that the Starstone test, according to paizo's later writing, requires the approval of other gods to allow the person to become a deity, otherwise it just renders them mythic.

>>54790790
No need. Just calculate encounters for a group CR two or three levels less than PC classes and it works well. It requires a bit more thought on the players' parts not to get insta-gibbed since they aren't as powerful as normal, but that's the only real concern.

And, of course, the magic users don't become all powerful gods after fifth or sixth level. They have to be smart with their magic, which isn't a bad thing.

Mind you, this is polishing a turd, here. Nothing can make PF good. It does balance things a bit, though.

>>54790876
What if they're already mythic? This is a high powerlevel campaign, my char is Mythic.

Are Combat Maneuvers worth it? Which ones are worth it? Which ones are useless?

>>54790909
They get even more Mythic, two ranks specifically.

>>54790909
Then they go up a mythic tier.

Worth noting however, is that there's no mythic tier above 10, meaning you'd either have a thing of GM fiat on your hands, or you ascend into divinity. No other options.

>>54790927
>>54790934
Where's this written at, out of curiosity? My GM didn't know any of this.

>>54790595

>Though I hear others say its underpowered but I'm more concerned with the character theme than being the strongest party member.

Heretic

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>>54790890
The number of things wrong with your statements can only boil down to "just play 5e instead of butchering things more". There is nothing redeemable about trying to play NPC classes. You're not making the system "less unwieldy" by stripping things like Fighter or Rogue away from players.

>>54790926
>Are Combat Maneuvers worth it?
Of course not, that would mean martials had something nice. If you are going to use them though, I think Trip is the way to go, if you do manage to knock them down you and your friends will get AoOs with a nice bonus when they stand back up.

>>54791012
Ehh, I like to put the Roleplay before my numbers crunching.

>>54790595
Eh, I'd take all the operative hype it with a grain of salt. A lot of the it's class abilities can be replicated with tech- all of the vision-enhancing abilities for example are things you'd want in Starlord's helmet anyway. The movement based ones are easily replicated with feats/equipment, or with a jetpack/jetboots, and the social ones are pretty pathetic compared to Envoy.
That leaves the combat exploits/trick attack aspects, and while it could be argued that you will not deal as much damage with the Envoy, Ganora, Rocket, Groot and Drax really all seem more the destructive/damage dealing types.
The Envoy is more of a versatile and unpredictable force-multiplier, which what I think of with Starlord.

If you end up feeling bad about the damage, you can always toss more grenades or pick up Longarm expertise and console yourself with the fact the Operative is locked into operator melee or short arm weapons if they want to focus on their damage with trick attack antics, while you can carry on as normal.

>>54790598
Agreed on the Outlaw aspect, didn't know if there was more bounty hunter stuff in the comics or anything.

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https://www.reddit.com/r/Fantasy/comments/6sm438/we_make_the_starfinder_rpgask_us_anything/dlemt0v/?context=3

It seems that Owen K.C. Stephens has confirmed that operative weapons still use Strength for the damage roll.

>>54791026
Dude, seriously, people have done it. It helps because the NPC classes are balanced against each other much better than standard classes, which is a big problem w/PF. Again, it's polishing a turd but if someone wants to play PF then this is one way to help. Personally I wouldn't play PF again if you paid me (nor am I all that impressed by 5E for that matter) but it can be made better with a few simple changes.

>>54791114
Something is legit fucking wrong with you if you think NPC's are balanced in any capacity, much less each other. Like you have to becoming into the game with some really bizarre ass expectations.

>>54790994
The book Mythic Origins, I think, or maybe Mythic Realms. It's been quite a while since I checked though, so it could be either one; I don't have my books handy to check. either way, one of them addresses the Starstone test.

>>54791084
Yeah, just going over the Abilities that Envoy gets, Envoy Scoundrel is the closest thing to help make a Starlord-esque character, so that is probably what I'm going with for the character.

Now I just need two plasma pistols, jetboots, and kickass helmet and I'm gold. Though for the game since we're starting level 1 I will sadly be unable too get such things.

>>54791028
Dirty Trick & Trip are the worth it ones.

>>54791114
Holy shit, you're retarded.

>>54791114
If you don't want to play Pathfinder/Starfinder why are you in this thread?

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>>54791114
If you had said something akin to "stick to only core fighter and rogue" you would have had a better case than "play with only NPC classes". If your idea of "balance" is to strip down any and all redeemable features of this godforsaken mess of a system, then I have no choice to assume that this is an aggressively terrible bait or you're genuinely braindamaged.

So far I've seen a lot of talk about Envoy and Operative, but what do you guys think about the other classes in SF?

>>54791344
Solarian: Dogshit.

>>54791344
Soldier is pretty good but could use a little more for out-of-combat; Mechanic needs some help but has potential; Technomancer is ech, Mystic is ECH; Solarian is all flavor with shitty, rusty metal tacks for crunch.

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Is Starfinder playable?

>>54791344
>Technomancer: Pretty solid caster, and actually looks like fun.

>Mystic: Decent caster, but lower quality options than Technomancer. Is in desperate need of splatbooks to make it better.

>Soldier: Quite possibly the best designed class in the game, it's the only non-spellcaster to not suffer from a one-true-build issue.

>Mechanic: Surprisingly bland for what it's supposed to do, and most of it's noncombat options can be beaten out by an operative.

>Solarian: Decent, but it's only on part with a melee focused soldier, rather than "better" where it should be, while lacking in versatility. It's not where it should be yet.

Disclaimer: I don't have a great head for rules, so this is my observations as well as having talked to some other people about it.

>>54791422
What ONE TRUE BUILDS are there?

Isn't solarian just worse than a melee soldier?

>>54791344
>Solarion - Jury is out, looks to be trash
>Mechanic - Pretty okay, needs to be tested tho
>Technomancer - WIZARD. Casting is the class features, but looks like it has good latitude in build choices.
>Mystic - CLERIC. See Technomancer.
>Soldier - A Fighter that's actually the best at fighting. Pretty good/10

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When your campaign takes place in a really hot or tropical climate, how do you deal with players wearing heavy armor? Does everyone just focus more on Dexterity and magic bonuses for their AC needs?

>>54791450
I know there was a post about it not too long ago, but I can't seem to find it now.

>>54791508
Industrial-level production of magic items with an Endure Elements effect

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How would you build/play as a Bard (or possibly a Rogue) named Gorgeous George?

No rules or restrictions really, you just have to be named Gorgeous George.

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>>54791422
>>54791456

The mystic seems to suffer from having few high-impact options, aside from fear-based save-or-loses (e.g. Cause Fear and Fear) and the Overlord connection's mind control specialties. Most of the connection abilities are mediocre.

Meanwhile, from 1st- and 2nd-level alone, the technomancer has a good supply of spell slots, Jolting Surge and Supercharge Weapon lead to strong damage, Overheat doles out more area damage than grenades, and Grease is solid battlefield control.

Is this an accurate assessment?

Also, is it just me, or will an awful lot of casting-focused mystics and technomancers spring for Heavy Armor Proficiency as their first feat? A human, half-elf, or half-orc mystic or technomancer can have Dexterity 14 and Intelligence/Wisdom 18 and wear heavy armor. It is a good investment at 1st-level, and it only gets better as the levels go by due to the rapid scaling of heavy armor.

>>54791162
You can get pretty close with level 1 WBL.
Azimuth laser pistol, Estex Suit I +Infrared Sensors to go into your helmet, with some change left over for the other essential gadgets you would want.

At level 2 you can add Jump Jets with your WBL and a second pistol, or forgo the infrared sensors til then and start with 2x semi-auto pistols, and basically get your "helmet" stuff by second level.

>>54791422
>>54791450
>>54791456
Solarian should get 4/9 casting starting at 5th level and that'd be a pretty good fix for it. 4/9 casters are pretty fun.

>>54791576
That cheap? I suppose I shouldn't be surprised since the tech is on a more mundane level in the setting.

>>54791421
Yes.

>>54791546
Did older editions of D&D have endure elements? It seems like all the old supplements I look through don't expect anyone to have it, but in PF it's just a 1st level spell.

>>54791591
That's actually an excellent suggestion. Have them pull from the mystic list?

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>>54791531

• Envoy: A halfling with maximized Dexterity and Charisma; Longarm Proficiency and Weapon Specialization (longarms) for feats; and Clever Feint and Get 'Em in either order at 1st and 2nd, Clever Attack at 4th, and Improved Get 'Em at 6th.
Such an envoy spams reasonably high-damage attacks while buffing the party. Despite this, it is still the worst of the classes by far. "Attack bonuses are important" logic does not quite hold up when those attack bonuses are meager, and having another dedicated full attacker or trick attacker on the playing field is just as good, if not better, a means of killing the enemy side.

• Operative: Ghost specialization (thank you, Mark Seifter, for preserving the Ghost's +4 while the Daredevil and the Thief lost out on it), small arm, maximize Stealth, work towards Shot on the Run.
As per Owen K.C. Stephens, operative weapons still use Strength for the damage roll, so you might as well not bother with a melee operative.

• Solarian: Solar weapon. Heavy Armor Proficiency at 1st level. Stellar Rush at 2nd, Plasma Sheath at 4th, Corona at 6th. Start combat with a Plasma Sheath and a Corona and spam melee attacks. Use a tactical pike up to 5th-level, completely ignoring your solar weapon, and then possibly use your solar weapon depending on the weapons and solarian weapon crystals you can afford.
A rather awful class, though not quite on the level of the envoy.

>>54791421
No. It's trash.

>>54791629
I would actually use a CUSTOM spell list for them, with unique gravity/sun related spells. Perhaps when third party comes out, and when they INEVITABLY bring out new attunements, have unique spell lists for them too.

Also, let the Solarian have both their armor AND weapon, and give them a scaling enhancement bonus to attack and damage rolls to avoid having to dip into solarian crystals.

>>54791421

Only if you want to PVP, there are no rules for creating monsters or NPCs and no bestiary of any kind, not even a few monsters in the back of the book.

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>>54791591
>>54791629

This would not help the fact that even from 1st- to 5th-level, solar armor and solar weapon are both useless, and a solarian is rather underwhelming compared to a melee soldier.

>>54791712
Which, realistically, is where it should be shining. Melee should be Solarian's wheelhouse, but it just doesn't have what's necessary for that.

>>54791591
Envoy should get 4th level casting off the Technomancer list."

>>54791710
We do have a tiny bestiary in First Contact, but it's not much.

>>54788511
>and now they think mercanes are some Cthulhu Mythos thing.
Well... they are space aliens.

>>54791712
Then make solar armor and solar weapon scale better, then!

>>54791762
I disagree, I just think it needs some of its numbers and action economy stuff tweaked.

>>54791805
>I disagree, I just think it needs some of its numbers and action economy stuff tweaked.

The problem with the Envoy is no scaling. It gets its capstone at 8th. Casting would give them something to do for the remaining 12 levels.

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>>54772020
>back to the future rules or terminator rules for time travel?
Homestuck

>>54791710
>>54791770
Actually, come to think of it the legacy rules add notes on how to convert characters AND monsters. For example, AC is pretty much a 1:1 conversion, HP has notes for the changes, as do attacks. It'd take a bit, but converting the existing bestiary over is doable.

So what's the general consensus on starfinder so far?

>>54791880
This unit has not yet reached Consensus

>>54791344
Solarian looks to be quite a good all-in melee tank, my only concern is that it may suffer from too few combat feats. Seems somewhat self-sufficient though, so might offer something for smaller than average sized parties, or for groups of 5-6 players. Coordinated Shot is probably a feat the rest of your group will want you to take.
In a game where ranged combat could lead to tough-to-dislodge enemy gunners, or even a party of ranged characters scrambling from a close-ranged melee ambush, Solarian offers a lot of mobility and tools. Good gap-closing, crowd control and aoe built in. The fact you won't be crying from an EMP burst or enemy Technomancy or anti-magic field helps, too.

Star Shaman Mystic looks like a ton of fun, though still going through spells.

Haven't looked at Mechanic or Technomancer that much yet.

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I cannot help but notice that even with Quick Draw or ysoki cheek pouches, a character cannot draw their weapon and full attack (or trick attack), because full actions consume even a swift action. Is there really much point to the ysoki cheek pouches and Quick Draw, then?

>>54792024

>Solarian looks to be quite a good all-in melee tank
Solarians are significantly frailer than soldiers, as solarians must invest in Charisma for Resolve, which means they cannot afford an easy Dexterity 14, unlike a soldier.

>Solarian offers a lot of mobility and tools. Good gap-closing, crowd control and aoe built in
The soldier handles all of these more aptly.

>>54789664
Remote Controlled Enercycle.

>>54791880
It's pretty shitty to be honest famalam

>>54791880
From the look of things, you can come to two basic conclusions:

1) Starfinder is much better balanced than core Pathfinder.

2) The Starfinder CRB never received an editing pass, and needs one desperately. Expect a second printing.

Overall, outside of the massive slew of typos and similar issues, it appears to be a better game, particularly since nothing stops you from using things from Pathfinder if you prefer them over equivalent Starfinder stuff.

>>54791880
Lack of weapons and customization is sad. but I'm a shadowrun/gurps /k/ fag

>>54792065
I expect them to release a bunch of armory books. We know those are basically a cash cow for sci fi and cyberpunk games, so they're pretty much guaranteed. The mech book, for instance, should be great, and we'll likely get more options for armor and weapons as things move along.

>>54792065

Yeah, the lack of Hand Cannons/SMGs ticked me off. Seriously, they HAVE a 'Can only fire 1/turn' keyword they could have used for a hand cannon pistol.

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>>54792091
Speaking of mechs, I'm seriously looking forward to what they do with them. The Power Armor subsystem at the moment is only three or four rules away from being mechs already, and what we've seen of power armor so far is damned good (if a bit stupuid due to not scaling up to level 20. Whose idea was that?).

>>54791880
With my own 3pp conversion rules for SoP, SoM, PoW, and Pact Magic, as well as some personal 3pp and house rule to make Envoy and Ecocortex Mechanic not shit it is pretty baller. Without those it's okay, but the two listed options are lacklustre.

>>54791834
>Implying anyone could actually replicate the time travel rules from Homestuck in a session

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How exactly does batteries work? If I buy a 20 charge one for 60 Creds, can I keep reusing it, just charging it whenever I get the chance?

Does weapons come with their own battery that I can remove and replace? Can I loot batteries off the corpses of my enemies?

>tfw this is now a battery collection simulator

>>54791880
I hope a lot of the changes to feats and certain spells in starfinder coughHASTEcough get backported to Pathfinder, but otherwise Starfinder is more like a rough draft for a game than an actual game at this stage.

>>54792208
>How exactly does batteries work? If I buy a 20 charge one for 60 Creds, can I keep reusing it, just charging it whenever I get the chance?
Yes. You also can't install a battery in a weapon larger than it's meant to be used with, but I didn't see any such clause in power armor, so you can get away with installing ultra-capacity batteries in those.

>Does weapons come with their own battery that I can remove and replace?
Yes.

>Can I loot batteries off the corpses of my enemies?
Yes.

>>54790590
Far as I can tell those were ignored from the playtest onwards.

Makes a guy think "balance" was the biggest reason for keeping the playtests all quiet.

They knew there'd be none.

So. Do you think a starship is a "sturdy" item, with hardness 5+(tier*2)?

Or do they have their normal DT, Hull and Shields, but multiplied by 10 just like their weapons do?

Or is only the damage they pump out as some nebulous unspecified "hazard maybe if the GM wants" even when those point-weapons would target a fucking tank multiplied, and so the average guy on the ground with a high level rifle can shoot a carrier out of the sky much, MUCH, MUCH MUCH faster than any squadron of starfighters ever could hope to pull off?

>>54788306
I'm kind of a fan of Witchwyrds.

Since they have the same 'extraplanar merchant' thing going on as Mercanes, but don't naturally have the ability to planehop. So they aren't planehoppers by nature, it's just something they like to do by some method or another.

>>54791421
Ground only for now, otherwise not-yet.

Too many questions regarding ships, vehicles, too many holes and not enough upgrading...

Although don't bother with an envoy, an exocortex, or a solarian.

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>>54792189
They can. You just have to structure the campaign as you go based on how events went down. It would take a work but you could totally do it. You just have to have multiple ways for the events to fall into place and still reach the desired outcome to make sure the PCs flip all the "right" levers.

Alternatively you can just have the frog switch be suddenly flipped with no apparent explanation.

>>54792162
Probably the same person that decided solarians couldn't be good weapons or armor.

>>54791880
I'm not impressed. The balance is still terrible, and with fewer classes that means there are fewer real options. Maybe it will get better with more content, but this is Paizo so I wouldn't get my hopes up. Also, the art is really ugly.

>>54792091
>>54792123
I really don't know too much about PF or 3.x when it comes to weapons and the stats but is it really possible to have a wide range of weapons with out them over shadowing others?

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>>54791558

So I like how weapons do a lot more damage at high levels, but does anyone really want to roll 14 dice every time they get a hit? Seems like there'd have to be a better way.

>>54792402
Respond with what?

There's literally nothing about the name that precludes any type of character.

>>54792402
Be incredibly good looking, with Perform (Act) out the wazoo?

>>54792402
I'd make him incredibly ugly (though still charismatic), with "Gorgeous George" being an ironic name.

>>54792456
You must not be very creative.

>>54791558
Super ugly. Like, incredibly ugly. Frightful Appearance (Su) ugly.

>>54792453

I feel like 4e's Weapon dice system would have worked best.

>Here is a laser rifle. It deals 1d6F. Your guy is level 13 so his weapons deal 5W. Thus he deals 5d6 damage with his laser rifle'

That + 'You get +level to armour class' would have made it so the game wasn't so very focused on 'If you don't have the latest purple items for your level, you are letting the raid down'.

>>54792377

The gap between Envoy and Technomancer is vastly smaller than the gap between Tier 5s and Tier 1s.

>>54792514
>you're "higher level" so your shit is more damaging!

Fuck off.

This is sci-fi and sci-fi is all about the gear, not the man.

So /pgg/ whats on your current homebrew desk that you are working on?

I've got:
>homebrew Race
>homebrew Medium archetype
>homebrew Skald archetype

I've got ideas for more, but gotta go one thing at a time.

>>54792573
Given cybernetics, it's also often about the man BEING gear.

>>54792590
too much crap, but I like hearing about medium stuff.

Tell me more about your medium archetype.

>>54792573

Yes, I remember how in Star Trek being higher rank in Starfleet meant you need to go get a new Phaser +3 so you can fight the new tier of Gorn.

Which sci-fi shows are about the gear rather than the person using said gear?

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>have a bad session two weeks ago
>buckle down, prepare like I never have before with detailed NPC's, maps, etc.
>players barely interact with anything and just run from point a to b
>get hounded about rulings the entire time
I don't want to DM anymore

>>54792693
It's dead, Jim.

>>54792693
Were they metagaming, or was point B obvious?

>>54792693
A little of both.

>>54792718
>>54792735

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How much of a nerf is restricting wizards to a single school barring feats to get new ones?

>>54792394
Absolutely. Which is why it's always flabbergasting when they fuck up.

Think of the sheer number of builds, of abilities, of methods and styles that players and characters may have available to them. Weapons don't need to be "the best" at something, they just need to be not mechanically fucked up the ass like a pathfinder crossbow. The idea is that each weapon COULD overshadow many others, but in very specific builds or situations, not all the time (which is the problem we have in the paizo games).

First: Damage types. If there are many varied enemy types then which is better, if things are well designed overall, is simply a matter of what you're facing right now. So an ice weapon vs a laser weapon vs a crusher, that's already slightly different weapons. On the other hand, "fire and electric" means that everyone and its mother gets double resistance, then the weapon's at a serious disadvantage and needs to make up for it with more than just +1 average damage on the rolls.

Second: attack rates. Now, versatility should have its cost, but it's a small one. Being able to switch between single-shot and full-auto is better than "+2 to disarm" level, but not quite up to the level of "has 2 better crit range" either. A heavy pistol could hit like a good sized long-arm but suffer from recharge: This needs to take bonuses into account and all that, though since less attacks.

Then there's special abilities. The guy who wants to maximize targeting would be interested in a laser that offers bonuses to telemetry and lock-ons. Someone who wants to melee might prefer something good at knocking shit down, or something that's focused on getting the most out of their criticals.


The trick in designing weapon lists is to NOT offer "exactly this other weapon but worse in every way". It's to keep a lot of models in every category/niche/type very close together in damage, while offering different things for builds to grab onto.

>>54792760
pretty massive

I want to upload a Slut Virus to an android!

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Name a more Starfinder-y show

Protip: You can't.

>>54792788
>Name a more Starfinder-y show

Firefly?

>>54792590
So much, but i'm just out of motivation

>>54792788

Otlaw Star.

>>54792760
Probably puts it around Tier 3. Versatility is the entire point of the class, and you're taking all of that away.

>>54792788
Why do they ever do anything dangerous when they can clone themselves so damned easily? This bugs the hell out me.

>>54792803

Good. Let's make the same with the other casters.

>>54792788
Sliders, but instead of dimension hopping they're hopping to other realms within the Drift

>>54792788
Pretty sure it's Outlaw Star

>>54792760

>One school.

Elves get to chose two or three.

>>54792795
I knew someone would say this but no Dark Matter is more Starfinder-y.

>>54792802
Okay you got me

>>54792806
I didn't think they had one of the things you go in to get cloned in the Raza, but I haven't watched the earlier seasons in a while. Do they? I think they can just create clones that they're sent the information for, but they don't have the input half of the tool.

>>54792843
Nah. The cast of Dark Matter are nearly murder hobos.

>>54792643
Its bringing back some old mechanics and introducing a new set of spirits. But to basically give you a gist:

>Bringing back Con casting etc. from the old Scarred Witch Doctor
>Ports over a modified Relics from Relic Channeler - its now based on masks
>Archmage changes to Witch casting, and gains access to Hexes
>Champion trades weapon proficiencies for more "primitive" weapons, removes their fragility and gains the ability to attach trophies to their weapon for a scaling morale bonus to hit/dmg
>Guardian gets scaling temporary hp, and dr/immunities
>Hierophant becomes druid casting and access to hunter focus
>Marshal adds spells, and is at the moment currently similar to the Warmonger
>Trickster is currently the one I am having most trouble with - at the moment is being more geared towards poison/alchemist shenanigans

>>54792590
I was gonna make a Psionic Vigilante archetype, but I may just expand that into a Psion/Wilder Unchained thing. But I honestly lack both the motivation and experience to do something that big. It's mostly ideas, nothing concrete.

>>54792788
What specifically makes something starfindery?

>>54792856

>Elves get to chose two or three.

Liches get all of them.

An I retarded for wanting to have the bravery aura feat? Being able to throw up to +5 against mind-affecting effects at my allies with that and improved bravery seems pretty nice.

>>54792867
They have them in season 3, and they've had them for a while, but even then, if they need to send someone in, they don't clone them, they go personally. Meanwhile, the major villain of season 3 uses them all the time. He even boards the Raza using their cloning facility at one point!

What's the ETA on a PDF for the SFCRB?

>>54792788
Man, I miss 1.

>>54792978
I mostly think of it as a combination of two factors: a similar aesthetic to the Starfinder setting, and a group of characters that have personalities like the stereotypical Pathfinder party that pull all the shenanigans + Mary Sue-ism that entails.

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I'm gonna be using two characters at once, and I want my secondary rogue to be a skill monkey with some combat sprinkled on top because my DM really fucking loves combat.

I don't want her to be combat-focused, but I also don't want her to be completely useless outside of finding traps. I didn't spend as many points into the more social skills because of reasons.

Does anything look really out of place? Any recommendations?
14 HP because I haven't done the hit die rolls yet.

>>54792788
God, this looks like the most committee-driven trash ever.

>Six characters, gotta make it 50/50 for gender!
>Okay, we need a grizzled white guy as the protagonist, a tough and well-spoken black man, and an Asian with a sword
>Everyone knows non-white women don't sell, so the women have different hair-colors. The bright-haired one's the quirky one!

>>54793136
Season 3 stuff: Pretty sure he's going to come back because we found out that the dark timeline version entered the main universe.

Can half-elves grow a beard? I guess purebreed elves cant.

>>54793094
When do they show that they have the input pod in Season 3? My point is that they only have the printer, not the scanner. That's why only the bad guys use them.

>>54793192
Nope, half-elves have the same lack of hair as their Elven parents.

>>54793110
T minus 7 days mission control, or posted like a thread or two ago but it's not text searchable. Over.

>>54792590
Besides a few new races that I've already posted about, I'm working on another homebrew spell. Probably a spell at least, may be an archetype. Essentially, it's an option for the Oracle that lets them "break" their Curse for a short period as a combat buff, bringing terrible effects to bear on everyone around them instead.
>Hunger/Wolfscarred lose their bite attack and hunger - their mouth leaves their face and becomes a massive devouring maw that flies around eating everything
>Deaf stops being deaf, but her voice is the only sound that can be heard - everything else is silenced
>Haunted/Pranked unleashes the ghosts normally bound to you as violent spirits that wreak havoc around you
>Tongues makes you speak in Words of Power
and so on. need some more options for other curses, but i'm feeling good about it.

>>54793207
Thanks boss

What kind of master is suitable for a Tiefling Slayer (bow and bardiche) Merc/Bounty Hunter with Student of Philosophy trait?

>>54792590
Tell us about the Skald, famiglioni!

>>54792788
Try farscape.

>>54793173
I wish you weren't so right, but that's not the protagonist (the brown-haired woman is). The white guy is high Wis low Int. Also the black man is pretty much a useless big baby moralfag, but you nailed the well-spoken part (he's the best pilot out of them all).

You'd probably expect gay stuff too, eh? It's got that.

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>>54793275
Forgot pic.

>>54792867
In season 2, they use clones in order to raid the Dwarf Star facility to get the medical thing to save 2 (I think).

What class or combo is suitable for sword+pistol/carbine+ stealth and utility of a rogue?

>>54789846
>Cabal starts using voice en mass.
>With one exception, every cabalist that claims to be female either avoids the chat or mutes their mics.

hue

>>54793288
>The white guy is high Wis low Int

Hey, that still fits into what I said! The white guy can't be smart, he's gotta be ~worldly~, and well-spoken is just another way to say he's all about doing the "right thing."

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Friendly reminder that this is the first /pfg/ Starfinder game recruiting.

http://discord.gg/YAk263j

https://app.roll20.net/join/2470196/97jKWg

>>54793315
Oh damn you're right. It was Regulus-12 the home of Taybor not Dark Star though. Apparently it's bad for your brain to do it to much and the technology is super shady. You would think Portia's nanobots would protect her and that she would be able to spam it, though. I see why it bugs Anon (you?).

>>54793173
An asian samurai really is a bit much isn't it? Especially since he looks mongolian or some shit

>>54793443
Don't you know all asians are samurai or math wizzes? Every single one of them. Come on. Everyone knows this.

>>54793443
>Especially since he looks mongolian or some shit
What better look for a Lawful Evil samurai?

>>54793265
Skald is unfortunately one that is gonna need the most work and it might work better for another class than the skald:

>No Raging Song
>Gains the ability cause Bleed based on level when dealing damage with a slashing or piercing weapon
>Once bleed is added onto a target - allies and Skald gain morale bonuses to Hit/Dmg
>Temporary hp can be gained from dealing damage to bleeding opponents
>eventually bleeding creatures take penalty on saves
>all these penalties/bonuses last as long as bleeding persists - this bleeding need not be to a single target but bleed effect being active period
>spell list changes for thematic effect
>more blood related abilities, like blood biography etc.

Basically the concept is that the character causes blood to sing once he brings it into the open via gory attacks and that singing empowers him/his allies as long as there is at least 1 target bleeding.

>>54793192
Make a Dwelf

>>54793288
>Gay stuff too

Let me guess, the Quirky-haired girl and the brown-haired girl? The haughty blonde-looking one needs to be with the black man, because as we both know blonde woman/black man is the only interracial pairing approved by the media.

>>54793422
Nah, last I checked he had some pretty ruthless instincts.

1 was your "do the right thing" guy, but's he's not around anymore.

>>54793531
I sincerely hope you mean "No Inspired Rage" and not flat out removing ALL the singing, and also that "singing blood" or whatever lets you use rage powers. Because otherwise yes, there's little to no point in using Skald for it - might as well start with the Bard instead.

>>54793537
The blonde is an android (the most special android in the universe ofc) but the scientist that developed her had a relationship with the brunette before she had to be frozen due to a rare brain tumor. The brunette also kisses the hallucination of a dead black girl.

>>54793609
>>54793537
>>54793288
Hollywood, everybody.

>>54793574
Yeah, its more like you have no Inspired Rage, and Rage Powers kick in as long as the blood is singing. In theory, you could have the Inspired Rage/Rage Powers infinitely, but in practice it only lasts as long as the battle. Its basically just removing the rounds/day counter and replacing it with a caveat that some fucker must be actively bleeding. All singing/songs will be replaced by abilities of approximately the same power.

>>54793640
While the "infinite rounds" thing may end up pretty broken...actually, it's definitely broken. Consider the fact that you can give fast healing with rage powers...
>one guy gets a tiny bit of bleed
>everyone starts healing including the bleeding guy
>keep this up until the party is 100%
may wanna look at this a bit. Also having your main class ability rely on bleeding is a bitch if you face anything that's immune to it. Unless like, you can count bleed effects on yourself, and you can do some shenanigans like that Stigmata paladin.

How should the most paranoid of players prepare oneself for facing absolutely everything?

>>54793547
He was talking about 6 with the last part. The sentence was just clunky.

>>54792038
>Solarians are significantly frailer than soldiers, as solarians must invest in Charisma for Resolve, which means they cannot afford an easy Dexterity 14, unlike a soldier.

I'm not convinced it is a significant difference. A 2-point difference in Dex is negligible, easily accounted for with armor or Solarian's class abilities, and most arguments I've seen in favor of the Soldier suggests they'll be wearing heavy armor anyway. The soldier is decidedly more vulnerable to combat maneuvers. The solarian can get DR/- equal to 1/2 level, can boost it's weak save, get itself 50% miss chance at level 10 or hide-in-plain-sight, and create it's own mobile cover force-field.

>The soldier handles all of these more aptly.
Not true really, at all. A melee Soldier will do better DPS compared to the Solarian, but it's a complete falsehood to suggest a melee Soldier has more apt crowd-control abilities. There are a few gear boosts I can see, but then you're blowing WBL for more weapons, or you're waiting til level 9 for a secondary style with grenades or something. I just don't see it.

And the Soldier handles gap-closing more aptly? You have got to be kidding. Both have improved charge, Solarian can get it at level 2 and Soldier by level 5, but Solarian can run up walls even upside-down across a ceiling, and then charge a foe at level 6, or fly then charge. At level 9 the Solarian can teleport through a self-created Warphole between two points190 feet apart, and if he took Spring Attack, could go there and back again.

Soldier is entirely dependent on spending it's WBL to try to do this, or rely on his party members. I would highly recommend the melee Soldier focus on DPS above all else, or a bodyguard build, and probably bring a ranged weapon to switch-hit with.

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>>54793716
Play a Wizard

>>54793735
(cont)
Now, I'm not saying the Solarian is without some issues.
Feats are going to feel starved. The real challenge to playing it will be managing the stellar mode attuning in combat, but that also makes it really hard to do any sort of reasonable theorycrafting until we see more monster stats or encounters, and even then, will have a whole variance of tactics depending on campaign type, environment, and opponents. But that is why I think the class is interesting.

>>54793716
Learn a trade and work in a big, secure city for the rest of their days. You're protected from most things by default.

>>54793716
Full Geneseed is not a bad option.
>Halfelf with options to count as Drow and get Drow Magic, go into Drow Nobility feats
>take RH:Kitsune and poach magical tails
>have a gorillion SLA options to save your butt
>always keep Misdirection active
>always wear a disguise and chase the good guy, the real superhero
Do all of this at once, and you will be prepared for most things - and that's without Contingencies.

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>>54789664
Wire Rifle.

>>54793777
What are some cool contingencies? Any cool ones from APs? I don't mean for a cautious character, just in general.

Have you guys tried debunking Mark's envoy math rather than just ignoring it

>>54793777
Oh, and add to this the fact that you can be a (Dual-Cursed) Time Oracle for all of this to work quite fancily. Denying the GM his ability to crit anyone ever is a pretty good power for the paranoid, Oracle in general is a very good chassis for the Full Geneseed build, AND you get both Permanency, Contingency and Time Stop from your mystery spells.

Do you prefer abusive parents, death, boring , or loving ones?

>>54793926
Neglectful.

>>54793926
>death
I'd be pretty fine with Death as my parent desu, he's a pretty cool guy.

>>54793926
I usually go for either dead (or disappeared but functionally dead) or loving, depending on what works better for the campaign.

>>54793926
All of the above, since I try to cycle through different backgrounds for my characters.

>>54793926
I have no preference. I perfectly assign each on a character-by-character basis with no bias, like a god.

>>54793926
I like abusive since I get to murder them ingame at some point

>>54793695
The initial idea was not having it work on friendlies and self. So realistically it should only last a little bit. But yeah it could be looked at again.
And I was gonna try and do a workaround for bleed immune targets kind of like how there are ways to use mindaffecting on undead.

>>54794020
May I suggest you look at the Soulforger, specifically Blood Aspect? It has some interactions that seem similar to what you're looking to, and handles restrictions on what you can gain power from based on Type.

>>54793926

I like to them to be born of a hanged women, adopted by a crazy woman who will soon die of a plague and his mercenary and abusive drunk husband.

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>>54793735

>A 2-point difference in Dex is negligible, easily accounted for with armor or Solarian's class abilities, and most arguments I've seen in favor of the Soldier suggests they'll be wearing heavy armor anyway.

1st-level human, half-elf, or half-orc melee soldier: Strength 18, Dexterity 14, Constitution 10, Intelligence 10, Wisdom 10, Charisma 10, with a floating +1 to Constitution, Intelligence, Wisdom, or Charisma

1st-level human, half-elf, or half-orc solarian: Strength 18, Dexterity 10, Constitution 10, Intelligence 10, Wisdom 10, Charisma 14, with a floating +1 to Dexterity, Constitution, Intelligence, or Wisdom

465 credit hidden soldier armor nets you +3 EAC, +5 KAC, and +2 maximum Dexterity bonus right at 1st-level.

By 5th-level, you can probably afford 3,910 credit vesk overplate I for +9 EAC, +11 KAC, and +3 maximum Dexterity bonus.

The solarian will always be lagging behind the soldier in terms of AC and Resolve Points.

>The solarian can get DR/- equal to 1/2 level, can boost it's weak save
Damage reduction is not as good as it seems given widespread energy weapons. Furthermore, by 5th-level, almost all solarians and soldiers spring for Enhanced Resistance (damage reduction) anyway. Photon mode is generally better anyway, for straight-up damage, Plasma Sheath, and Corona.

>get itself 50% miss chance at level 10 or hide-in-plain-sight
Stealth Warp is really not that combat-viable, particularly on a class that is not even Dexterity-secondary, and that is saddled with heavy armor for all intents and purposes.

>mobile cover force-field
This comes far too late.

>suggest a melee Soldier has more apt crowd-control abilities
The solarian's crowd control was always on the less impressive side due to the DCs keying off Charisma.

>Solarian can run up walls even upside-down across a ceiling, and then charge a foe at level 6, or fly then charge
Buy a jetpack armor upgrade. Everyone will want to do so sooner or later due to flight being highly useful.

>>54794046
Never heard of Soulforger before.

>>54794065
https://app.roll20.net/forum/post/5283967/list-of-ssdk-materials
Looks like I haven't been shilling hard enough, then.

The Errata isn't quite finished yet, but the errata post should be enough for most purposes.

>>54794051
Guts pls go.

>>54794056
Solarian's abilities suffer from Soulknife Syndrome.

"They get free gear, that's good enough". Problem, of course, is that while yes it saves them on money, they still need an edge - whether in power, value or how early they can do the stuff - otherwise others have abilities AND the same gear, since they have both a "build" budget and a "cash" budget to work with.

This is why soulknives only got good with late archetypes, free gifted-blade manifesting, or both. As long as all they had going for them was "I have a sword", they were in trouble.

Why do the Daredevil and Thief operative specializations not get a +4 bonus on their trick attack? Is it for a reason or just an oversight?

>>54794249
Their trick skill is dex based

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>>54794166

This is accurate.

Solar armor has the right idea; it is an upgrade that attaches itself on top of preexisting armor. It is just that it should have worked with heavy armor (and possibly powered armor, though the current state is ambiguous). As well, the solarian should have started with heavy armor proficiency.

>>54794249
>>54794305

Mark Seifter explains the mucking-up of the operative's mechanics here:

http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2ui01?Starfinder-Early-Impressions#39
http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2ui01?Starfinder-Early-Impressions#41
http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2ui01?Starfinder-Early-Impressions#42
http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2ui01&page=2?Starfinder-Early-Impressions#52

I do not buy Mark Seifter's logic, however, since that makes the Dexterity-based specializations simply worse considering how the ability increases every 5 levels work.

>>54794305
>>54794316
Ahhhh, now I see. So when I GM a Starfinder game should I should warn any operative player that the +4 doesn't apply to Ghost trick attacks?

>>54794377
Mention it to them

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>>54794316
>an okuu I didn't have

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>>54794377

I would preserve the +4 to the Ghost, give the same +4 to the Daredevil and the Thief, and improve the others' +4s into +5s.

However, I would also stipulate that racial bonuses never apply to a trick attack's skill check.

>>54793440
I'm hoping for some existential horror out of my starfinder games
Finding a long dead civilization orbiting a black hole they were farming for energy in an unknown galaxy after your ship malfunctions, sending you careening uncontrollably through the drift.
Knowing that these creatures before you were further advanced than anything you've ever seen, long before your people were even approaching the precipice of sapience...
It just gets me all hot and bothered!~

>>54793403
Desu Im actually surprised there was even the one.

>>54793403
I'm super male but I hesitate to voice with people because I don't want them to get weird. I wouldn't be surprised about women being worried about it, a lot of people who're fine over text get creepy when voice is involved.

>>54793403
dude what did you expect.
especially with pathfinder, where the closest thing to female is pre-op.

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