EDH/Commander General /edhg/

Cutting is the hardest part of brewing

>>54767815
"Choose a nonland permanent you don't control" and while the other players can, it's not ensured they will choose something I control so all my nonland permanents can be wiped if I don't negotiate.

>>54767881
It's only 100 card cals you fatass. All you have to do is not put sugar or carbs in your deck

>>54767848
I like the equipment side of cats so far, which has almost convinced me to get it. Almost.

>thread question
Dragons looks like would be my first bet despite 1-me liking wizards and Grixis even more and 2- the new dragons (excluding the commanders) being kinda small CMC-wise when I like huge dragons and shit.

>>54767920
Go away /fit/ let me at least have carbs in my damn decks!

Is Tazri still the best 5c commander?

>>54767954
Onee-chan, d-did I get a little bit...chubby?

http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/rith-devour/

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Pick up your copies now while you can locust friends

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>Thread Question

Probably going to go for Wizards and Dragons. I can pick up Mirri as a single and probably any interesting vamps.

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>What so you think of the spoilers so far? Convinced you to try any of the new decks?

I've had them preordered since they went up a few days ago, and I'm alright with what's been shown off so far. I was planning on making Jund Dragons eventually so Wasitora is a good substitute for Karrthus. Cats is looking to have some good staxy stuff which I can use for GW Selvala. Depending on how the Wizards and Vampires deck go I might cancel the preorder and just grab only one of the other decks. Vampires would be alright if it had a good Boros legend or some lifegain-related stuff for my Karlov deck but if not I'll probably pass on it in favor of the Wizards one.

Hopefully next year we'll get monocolor partners.

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lets give everyone except YOU token

>>54767848
I'll probably get vamps. Mardu is one of my favorite color combos and I was probably going to build them at somepoint anyways, granted with Marchesa 1.0 at the helm.

>What so you think of the spoilers so far? Convinced you to try any of the new decks?
Considering Smith-cat. Not sure of any of the equipment-centric staples though so, I've been doing research.

>>54758675
https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/660848#paper
zada is fun.
fun!

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>>54768094
Well this might push me to final build Zedruu.

>>54767980
Please stop spoilering links dude, makes life hard for phoneposters

>>54768167
fuck phones

>>54768167
>makes life hard for phoneposters
Is that supposed to matter?

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>>54768094
This works right?

Would be some premium jank to pull off.

>>54768181
What are the benefits of doing it though?

>>54768182
>literal meme card

>>54767848
Who should I run for my Goodstuff.dec? I want to do something tricolored, and no definitive win condition, just a lot of amswers, responses, and winning through sheer Jank.

>>54768182
>>54768094
this combo is so retarded it might actually work

>>54768094
Wait, is this only going to be in the dragon deck? This seems like something spell slinging wizards would love, but if they're Grixis wizards they aren't getting it.

>>54768235
it's going to be in the cats__ deck


look at the cardnumbers

>>54768235
Looks like it. The only deck with both U and W is the dragon deck.

>>54768167
>>54768195
I want you to look at my deck and give me advice

>>54768257
>Azorius colors
>IT'S GOING IN THE CATS DECK

/edh/ everyone.

>>54768289
Don't throw me in with him, I gave a reasonable answer.

>>54768276
Take out 2 lands and put more card draw

>>54767980
You don't even make goblin tokens, maybe drop Voracious Dragon?

>>54768276
Don't cut lands like >>54768304 said, but do add card draw.

>>54768094
Taigam will like this.

>>54768094
Finally, the card that lets me do the Leveler thing I've always wanted to.

>>54768157
the tokens your opponents get won't count towards zedruu's upkeep count.

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>>54768406
Forgot my pic, though I guess everyone knows what it does.

>>54768406
OH SHIT. SHIT. OH MAN. It also works as a Time Warp on steroids with Eater of Days right???

>let my friend look through my binder for a new commander
>I recommend Ruric Thar or Vela the nightclad
>He picks medomni
Shit, how do I help him build something good with that pile of jank? Just unblockable control shenanagians?

>>54768444
Oh Jesus. Man, this is going to be the Gwafa deck I've always wanted to build

>>54768094
>sorcery
Great, another card that punishes people for slowly building up their board instead of pulling off some gay infinite

>>54768466
Identity thief or Mimic Vat

How do we fix infect?

>>54768391
y

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i need some help, boys

http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/akirithrasios-wip/

>>54768529
What is needed to fix? It is perfectly fine as it is.

>>54768529
We don't. Infect is fine as it is. The only troublesome part of infect is that it applies to noncombat damage.

>>54768412
I know, but giving Zedruu's "presents" to every opponent is pretty good.

>>54768009

This card is absolutely bananas

>>54768529
No one EVER running an infect deck with an infect commander has ever won a game without a game winning triumph of the hordes or tainted strike.

>>54768494

If it was instant, would it punish people less for building up a board?

>>54768626
>not dropping grafted exoskeleton on your hidetsugu
>>54768637
Not as it is, but being instant would probably also increase its mana cost.

>>54767848
Wait, isn't this the card from Kamigawa that they made into a boardwipe spell specifically because flavorwise he'd be too powerful as a creature?

>>54768670
Yes

>>54768658
>Paying 6 mana for a sorcery speed equipment
Fair enough, but if you do that you've earned it.

>>54768444
I don't think it works that way.
You'll play eater of days and lose two turns, then give one to each opponents and they'll all lose 2 turns. In the end it won't do anything except give your opponent a giant creature.

>>54768704
My meta isn't hermit druid combos, so I can afford it

>>54768682
That's dumb. It seems really underwhelming for a needing 6 mana.

>>54768720
True that

>>54768731
You don't say, I almost thought it was a great card.

>>54768720
Well you obviously stifle the ETB, else Leveler also would just exile all libraries.

>>54768365
What can I add in Naya? Is sylvan library good card draw?

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>>54768094
????

>>54768761
Which is still ok, since your opponents all die on their upkeep if they make you draw cards at instant speed.

>>54768730
Well, bust out the god combo then:
>Grafted exoskeleton on mirrorwood treefolk
>Cast blasphemous act
>Redirect damage to Target player you hate the most

>>54768778
*can't make you

>>54768784
Boros Reckoner/Spitemare m8y

>>54768784
You could just drop it on Boros Reckoner and spare the boatload of mana

>>54768772
Yes

>>54768826
>>54768831
Yes, but how does that kill someone with a poisonous tree?

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>it ain't me starts playing

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>>54768430

>>54768773
RIP boardstate

>>54768773
Twincast the radiate.

>>54768907
Bad card but probably makes some fun situations which I guess is the point.

>>54768938
With a Greater Auramancy & Annointed Procession

>>54767963
Ramos is broken beyond belief, I wouldn't be surprised at all to see him overtake her for the spot

>>54768907
>Putting a goat on a card
>Doesn't make goat tokens

I am disappointed.

>>54768972
And Purphoros and Panharmonicon.

>>54768996
I think its quite clever actually.

its representing that a player picked a goat token

>>54768731
Super flavorful though. It feels like it wanted to just boardwipe every time but oh well.
>YOU DISHONORU ME, I DISHONORU YO HORU FAMIRY

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>>54768784
Act+Repercussion does it usually.

>>54768976

Is he really broken beyond belief? Tazri isn't even a good she just happens to work as a combo piece and has 5 colors in her identity. I feel like Ramos' thing that says his ability can only work once per turn prevents him from being a broken combo piece

Or do you think door to nothingness is gonna become tier?

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The ability seems like a lot of fun, but a 4/3 is nothing in the world of Commander. *sigh*

>>54769134
its only 2 mana to return it to the battlefield, I feel like there has to be someway to combo it

>>54769134
a 4 power flyer that's tough to permanently kill is nothing to sneeze at even in commander tbqh. Not great though.

>>54769134

It's not nothing in a dragon tribal deck, because it's going to be triggering all your dragon tribal stuff and receiving anthems and such

>>54769074
It's been cucked by Novablast wurm, fucking Wizards turning the "oh fuck" Kami of all Kamis into a retarded 6/6 for 6 with a mediocre ability.

>>54769134
4/3 is pretty small for a beater, but being able to constantly trigger dragon's tempest when your other dragons die isn't a bad thing.

Still, it feels like the retarded cousin of Scourge of Nel Toth.

>>54769162
1b makes it hard to combo with. If it were b or 2 it'd be obviously easy but yeah. I'm sure this was intentional.

>>54769162
Any combo you can do with it you could probably do better with Reassembling Skeleton.

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>>54767848
>Thread Question
Spoiler have been okay, but now that we're past Cats and Dragons, I'm not sure how much I want to see the rest. As bad as its gonna be, I'm building this guy and I will take pride in my retardedly stompy Dragon Tribal nonsense.

>>54769162
The kinda cheap cost to return it is the best part about it.

The worst parts are that it's just a 4/3 do-nothing on board and it's quite specific requirement to return it.

Kinda efficient, quite presistent but not too abusable. In many cases I'd rather play Tenacious Dead for the rather similar effect and that card ain't great.

>>54767848
>What so you think of the spoilers so far?
uncounterablespells.azorius.deck cant wait

>>54769214
>n many cases I'd rather play Tenacious Dead for the rather similar effect
It's very nearly same effect, except Tenacious dead isn't worth its mana cost in the hand whereas this guy is and also the dragon isn't tapped and you have multiple chances to bring it back if you can't or don't want to pay the cost the first time you get a chance AND ALSO it's a zombie. Don't be obtuse. This card isn't great unless your meta is really just all dumb midrangey creature decks where you win mostly by hitting each other after three hours but you wouldn't rather play Tenacious Dead over it.

>>54768907
Pretty bad, I don't see this ending with the caster retaining any (nonland) permanents outside of mindslaver-quicken shenanigans. Your opponents are going to help each other long before giving anything to the one who blew up everything.

>>54768289
Cats are autistic

>>54769260
Tenacious dead is 100% easier to recur, is clampable and isn't locked to tribal support.

This thing isn't even worth mentioning in the same sentence as bloodghast or reassembling skeleton, it's just shit and an easy cut from the dragon deck along with that abortion of a 4 mana 6/5.

>>54769278
It's horrible but they like to make this dumb political cards where actually you're losing when you cast it in a vacuum so there's a lot of reliance on trying to talk with people. It's like that two players switch turns black spell last set where 90% of the time with no other factors there's no reason those players shouldn't throw all their cards at you for fucking with them.

I hope there's more dragon toys for Kaalia. I might just be shit with deck building, but the dragon portion is the weakest of the 3 in my opinion.

>>54769306
Being locked to tribal support is the only reason at all tenacious dead is easier to recur in nay situation so those two are the same criticism, and yes it's clampable sure.

>>54769318
How does that work? There's like 5 good demons in all of magic at a push.

>>54768772
Definitely include Sylvan Library if you have one.
Some other options:
Rishkar's Expertese, Mind's Eye, Harmonize, Skullclamp, Collective Unconscious, Bygone Bishop, Tireless Tracker, Reforge the Soul, Dragon Mage, and Regal Force

I WANT TO BUILD TAIGAM TURNS

>>54769360
Garruk primal hunter is better than half of those options by himself.

>>54769134
I've kinda wanted to do a teneb dragons deck since khans/dragons block. this and the white dragon that was just spoiled are really pushing me over the edge

>>54769374
http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Search/Default.aspx?action=advanced&color=+@(|[W]|[U]|[C])&text=+[extra]+[turn]

>>54769433
tfw you will never own a capture of jingzou

>>54769385
Oh yeah, I always forget about him. He's really good.

>>54769205
I wonder how much bigger the Ur-Dragon is than the Elder Dragons like Bolas and Kolaghan

>>54769307
Except, you know, you at worst break even making two of your opponents play each others boards. True, you may get the heat of their reckless play but that's actually something you can deal with in the right deck. Is it good? No, but it's not quite so automatically to your disadvantage as this one and actually has some interesting choices rather than "The least threatening nonlands you don't control live, all else dies" I guess if you're going indestructible tribal, but then why not just blow it ALL to hell?

>>54769456
I recently traded for a foil one for my Xenagod list, first game he appeared I drew 40 cards with him.

In other news, don't just cast shitters while I have a defense of the heart in play...because I will have malignus and stonehoof chieftain bully your arsehole until you die.

>>54769489
I'm playing all of those in my Xenagod list too and never tried that combo! Thanks for the tip.

>>54769468
I'm just gonna headcanon that those dragons in frame with him are Hellkite Overlord sized.

>>54769472
>No, but it's not quite so automatically to your disadvantage as this one and actually has some interesting choices rather than
Eh, no, fuck you, if you get focused by two people who want to throw all of their opponents's cards away you don't break even. You technically do if make yourself and another player do it but that was a massive waste of 7 mana. The fun in both of these cards lies in being able to convince your opponents NOT to affect you.

I'm legitimately shocked that anyone defended cruel entertainment in any way other than "it's fun!"

>>54769433
>Time Stretch with Taigam out
NNNNNUUUTTTTT

>>54769009
And doubling season

>>54769609
And strionic resonator

>>54769519
I love Xenagod, he makes the local "blue is the best colour ever" sweaty faggot get so butthurt.

I'm in the process of foiling as much as I can, but fucking hydra omnivore and scourge of the throne cost more than I'm willing to pay just for a foil.

>>54769074
It should be a wrath on a big ass stick, throw in some condition for balance. Like a certain number of counters and any player can pay to remove one.

Hell, take him as is and make his exile scale with wrath counters and {3}: remove a wrath counter from ~. Any player may activate this ability.

The secondary commander is the worst Dragon so far, It's a disgrace.

>>54769646
Novablast wurm is literally what this fucker should be, but nope gotta shit on Kamigawa some more.

>>54769646
The flavor is that the opponent needs to do something that crosses you. This is good in commander and perfect flavor. I just think instead of killing a non land permanent, it should just kill all of them. Needing to pay that much different colored mana and needing an opponent to attack you should have a bigger upside.

>>54769646
>The secondary commander is the worst Dragon so far, It's a disgrace.

The dragon deck gets Taigam and Ramos though, so its okay. They are both leaps and bounds better then the extra commanders the cats got.

>>54769643
Conspiracy was a good set.

>>54769679
It was indeed, the 2nd one was pretty good too.

>tfw I got a foil Queen Marchesa
>built a mardu "painal" deck full of things that hurt people
>slap a solitary confinement in there and watch them all get annoyed at dying to mana barbs

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>tfw activating Heartless Hidegutsu with Odric and a lifelinker out

>>54769360
>>54769456
You also forgot Shamanic Revilations, which is a better Collective Unconscious.

>>54769673
Yeah that's how I got the counters idea. Opponent does something against you and O-kagachi gets one, they make an offering and he looses one. Then just do some cool shit with the counters.

>>54769674
Catforge Mystic is ok-ish depending on what equipment is in the deck. Still, with the pseudo 3-drops spoiled today dragons is looking like the better deck right now.

>>54769810
Nazahn would be sweet in Nayan colors, having 100% access to Sunforger.

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>>54769733
>Heartless Hidetsugu with Grafted Exoskeleton out

How would Taigam win?

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>>54769860
inshallah

>>54769866

Uncounterable rebounded time walks

Having a bit of a dilemma here.

I have a Uril voltron deck and an Oloro control deck. They're like opposite ends of the spectrum where one is really fast and based on attacking and the other slow as hell based on never attacking and rarely even casting creatures. I don't really have anything in the middle. No deck that just plays the game regularly (some creatures, some attacking, some spells, etc). It's weird.

I wanted to go to my LGS to start playing some commander but not sure what to go with. Control might just bore people to death and annoy them, also might be tough to control a whole new table of randoms, and voltron usually gets smacked down so I just sit there doing nothing. New deck perhaps? I thought a Prossh deck that abuses tokens would be fun. Sac them for various effects, can also attack with him, guaranteed token generator even if countered... There's a lot of interaction. Or I might just go there with Oloro

>>54769763
He had Shamanic Revelations in the deck. But otherwise yes, that card is the shit.

>>54769974
Prossh will probably pain a huge target on you. Maybe go with Sek' Kuar or Tana and Reyan if you want to do jund tokens?

>>54769973
And after you have uncounterable turns? Is it just Helm-RiP combo?

>>54770096

Helm-rip combo is available to any deck playing white. Not a particularly fun combo though, it would be more fun to cast uncounterable dargons and beat down on your multiple turns

>>54770088
Even if I'm not playing some wacky combo deck?

>>54768094
>GAAIV
>3 mana give everyone a Sphere of Resistance

>>54770128
Nah man, Skythrix teardown is the way to go.

Or Mycosynth lattice + Heelkite Tyrant

>>54770191
Don't you mean 4 mana?

>already have Atraxa Random-Counters-Stuff and Kaalia Angel Tribal
>already set to build Gishark Dinosaur Tribal once they release
>still want to buy Wizard and/or Dinosaur Tribal because they look fun and pretty strong

I feel like having 5 Commander decks is a bit overkill when I usually only play it like once every 3 or so weeks and am also sitting on 4 Standard decks.

I just hope we get a Mardu infinite combo commander.

>>54770305
>infinite combo commander
boring

>>54770324
Every single deck should contain a game ending synergy to prevent games from running indefinitely.

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>>54767848
Fuck that art sucks

Should have brought back based Kev

>>54770416
you can do that in about a hundred billion ways without infinite combo

>>54770305
Nim Deathmantle + Ashnod's Altar + any of the 20~ Alesha targets that makes at least two tokens.

>>54768907
>I read the card name as "Fortunate Jew"
Too much /pol/ posting on /tg/ these days.

>>54768773
But this won't work because it targets other players??

Is it worth it to run tron lands in EDH (playing green) or is it too unreliable to get all 3

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>>54770431
>Fuck that card sucks
FTFY
Greatest of all Kami reduced to a shitty Krond. Fuck.

>>54769643
I always target the blue control faggot at the table first. Regardless of anything else.

>>54770135
Yes. Proshh naturally draws hate because he can win out of nowhere even without wacky combos, just by casting him you get insane value that only increases each time he dies, and he's in decent colors. It also depends on your group to be fair, I have a friend with a Proshh deck but it's not 100%, and he plays in our group where everyone has 100% decks so he flies under the radar and occasionally wins because of it.

>>54770096

Helm-rip combo is available to any deck playing white. Not a particularly fun combo though, it would be more fun to cast uncounterable dargons and beat down on your multiple turns

>>54770653
Yeah it sucks. I guess flavor-wise it makes sense but god damn is it ever underwhelming

>>54770588
The real problem is that LD is a real thing in EDH, and if one of your Urza lands gets hit then you've wasted a land drop on a very subpar land, and you're not always going to have Splendid Reclamation. Even in something like Azusa, where you're playing a fuckton of lands, what are you casting with Urza lands that you wouldn't be able to cast with the 40 lands from Azusa?

>>54770695
Damn, I really like all the possible interactions. Sacrificing one token and having like 4 things go off seems really fun.

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>casting Walk the Aeons with Taigam out
>gets Rebound
>Rebounds next turn, pay Buyback
>cast from hand again, gets rebound
>uncounterable every single time

Fuck he's going to be an absolute nightmare to play against

>>54770730
It doesn't even make sense flavor-wise, considering him merely entering the plane nearly caused it to rupture and be destroyed.

>>54770588
I use them in Karn and get Tron online a fair amount because of Expedition Map and massive card draw

>>54770876
How do you win though?

I'm so amped for that Grixis Wizards deck, don't care if it's bad

>>54770229

read Augustin again

>>54770915
What are some alternate commanders you're hoping for?
A Faerie sub-theme with Oona and a new Wydwen would be sweet. Also, a new Boris Fireblood, as he's the only Rakdos colored Wizard is also something I'd celebrate.

>>54770905

Dargons

>>54770932
Read Sphere of Resistance again. I posted >>54770191, I was wrong. Augustin makes it 1UW, Sphere make it 2UW.
>>54770947
I'm definitely expecting a Jeleva reprint.

>>54770905
By packing a really efficient Voltron package via white Equipment tutors , taking a shitload of extra turns via blue bullshit and beating everyone to death

He's going to be an extremely good commander

>>54770887
How the fuck do you expect them to do that on a card. We got the Eldrazi titans. At that point we can rule out "being too power to physical appear". This card is showing the storyline aspect of O-Kagachi starting the Kami War in response to Konda stealing That Which Was Taken. The problem is the response to that is really pretty lame.

>>54770932
Read Sphere of resistance again, braniac.

>>54770905
If you get Taigam's trigger, you're attacking with something, i.e. you're doing damage. If you can get enough extra turns, you're just going to kill people that way.

>>54770958
Him nuking the plane could have been a 5 color Flash "Exile all nonland permanents."

What do you guys think of that Ramos card? I think it looks rad. No idea how I'd build it though.

>>54770985
Good luck dealing 63 damage with him vs 3 other people.

He's going to be a total meme general, good against tables playing giant spiders ect and a joke vs people who actually play removal.

>>54770999
>>54770958
Also, we already have him nuking the plane just by showing up on a card.

>>54771011
I think most people are going to try and do some sort of Blink-Storm or some shit.

>>54771011
Charms

>>54770905
approach of the second sun

>>54771053
Oh fuck that's hilarious.

>>54771053
Doesn't work. The replacement effect only works if you cast it the second time from your hand

>>54771053
Don't you have to cast it from your hand to win?

>>54771092
>>54771085

If you're taking extra turns you'll find it faster

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>>54771011
Something combining pic related with Door to Nothingness.

>>54771011
>>54771118
Also Maze's End

>>54770586
No, it only targets the permanent so it would work.

>>54771015
He's not the greatest thing since sliced bread, but you're fooling yourself if he's literally only good against a table playing middling vanilla dweebs only. Like, what the fuck.

>>54770905
dovescape + guile also works

How does you / your playgroup look at using proxies?

I'm fine with them, as long as the person using them has the goal of aquiring a real copy of the card at some point in time. My playgroup mostly agree.

>>54771196
He's a daintly little no protection creature that screams "I'm going to do degenerate shit if you let me untap", he's going to eat removal every chance people get.

Keep trying to convince yourselves that he's good, you'll learn fast that he's got so many hurdles to even connect that it's laughable that you faggots are circle jerking this hard over a mediocre creature.

>>54771015

Who said you're only attacking with him and doing nothing else? He's also a dragon commander, first of all, you can reasonably have other attackers in play to begin with. But besides that, did you forget that you untap all your lands and rocks when you take extra turns? You get to cast more spells on those extra turns

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>>54767920
>Sugar OR carbs

What the fuck?

>>54771230
my group does the same thing. We'll make quick proxies as we play and stuff, because we're always trying to make our decks do what we want them to better.

>>54771242
IF you'e palying at such a high fucking threat table where he's actually horrible, people's removal should be aimed at much, much more dangerous generals. Sorry, "dies to removal" is as stupid a fucking reason for something being bad as ever. Being overly contrarian in response to other people saying he's the best shit ever even though doesn't make you any better.

>>54771278
>even though
he isn't

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I don't know about you guys, but I'm kinda tired of wizards slapping a minor drawback on a slightly beefy body, discounting it a little, and putting it in the commander precons. I'm playing edh, I can fucking afford to pay more mana for big stuff, I don't want discounted shit, I want big things that do cool stuff.

>>54767848
Source on O-K? Or is it a fake?

>>54771278
>pls let me attack and use timestretch
>no
>b-b-but muh dies to removal is a bad argument!

Mental midgets who think spamming time magic = skill can't grasp that Taigan is fragile and his gameplan is so obvious that even Stevie Wonder can see it, what a shocker.

You need 3 things to make him even start to feel like a deck:

>ramp
>ways to make him not die in combat constantly
>ways to protect him

Sure, you can slap a whispersilk cloak on him and try and win, but you've now got to resolve that equip trigger and hope that no one is a big meany stinky head and blows up Taigan's cuck cloak before he can do anything.

You'd be better off spamming 300 extra turns with a geist in play, at least he's cheaper to cast and already has some protection.

>>54771351
Blade of Selves would be a fun thing to put on this guy

>>54771351
The cool thing on this one is that it cares about multiple opponents. Apparently that's a really popular thing to others. You get a hasty 6 power flyer for 4 which is still pretty decent in commander at any level you'd be playing things with high mana costs and some people also like that it has a built in way to politics hitting people. I dunno. It's not for me but I couldn't give less of a shit.

>>54771370
Damn who pissed on your cornflakes?

>>54771011
I want to build him just so I can win with Conflux:

>doubling season
>tamiyo
>dark ritual
>blaze
>literally shouldn't matter

>>54771423
It's just a triggered response from when people think something is mindblowingly good when it isn't. I get where he's coming from but saying Taigam is literally only good against goldfishes playing craw wurms is pretty damn stupid.

>>54771429
Replace blaze with grapeshot if you need to kill more than one player and a 420 damage blaze isn't cool enough for you.

>>54768182

Holy shit this combo is fucking nuts.

>>54767848
im new to edh, what are the good precons to get? i was looking at getting the one EDH precon with the two gay guys on it. (somthing unity i think it was called)

>>54771587
Stalwart Unity, the Gay Kangz precon, is suffering. It's Group Hug, which means "Hey guys, let me help you kill me." Get Plunder the Graves or Swell the Host.

>>54771429
How would that work?

>>54771587
What kind of decks do you usually like to play?

>>54767848
This is an interesting card, but feels very un-Dragon. More of a Spirit commander, really. I could really use a girlfriend. Thanks.

>>54771655
any others?

>>54771658
i likecontroling / artifact based decks, and i didnt want to spend an arm and a leg on some other decks so i figure i could start with the precons

>>54771354
Welcome to 4chan retard.

>>54771587
Most of the precons are good, even >>54771655
this one since it comes with a high ratio of staple utility cards than most decks iirc. It's really just a pick watch you want. My favorite of 2016 was Atraxa deck, my favorite of 2015 was Ezuri, and my favorite of 2014 was Daretti.

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>>54771587
>Commander
>2014
>Daretti

>>54771686
The older ones are more expensive, don't really want to recommend them. For artifacts and control, Invent Superiority is going to be expensive, but it's there, Built from Scratch is a bit cheaper, but
>mono red

>>54770695
>>54770088
>>54769974

Shit, I just don't know. This deck looks fun as hell with a few additions like Butcher of Malakir and Rage Thrower. Sacing a token to draw from Fecundity, have all opponents sacrifice a creature, and doing 2 damage for virtually nothing? Even if he gets countered? This is tough to pass up.

>>54771697
there any shit ones i should stay away from?

>>54771658
>cast Conflux with Ramos in play
>fetch doubling season and tamiyo, then your choice of infinate looping mana ritual and kill piece
>cast doubling season, then cast tamiyo
>ultimate tamiyo
>cast ritual as many times as you want
>storm out or kill someone with an huge ramos.

>>54771727
im open to other kinds of decks, there anything else for somthing like prison? Grouphug? Fuck you and your artifactsnsheeeeit?

>>54771736
You shouldn't buy any but the people in these threads love sucking Wizards' cock and using almost unplayable unimaginative cookie cutter decks that cost three times what they're worth.

Precons count as netdecking, right?
Precon users = Netdeckers
Netdeckers = Scrubs
So don't buy precons or you're a scrub.

Also they're bullshit and unfair and full of unbeatable shit, fuck them and fuck WotC.

>>54771736
Not really. It's kinda dissatisfying to say sicne it's not a concrete answer, but due to the nature of commander, unless your deck is constructed poorly like 20 lands with a curve going up to 8 drops or something than you stand a chance against the average table, so the precons appear better than they normally are for other formats.Personally I think the monoblack Ob Nixilis deck, the monowhite Nahiri deck, the Kalemne deck, and the Daxos deck are all pretty meh just reading them. A lot of people also say Teferi but I've personally played that one and it is a little better than it looks.

>>54771801
Are you twelve? Go back to wherever you came from.

>>54771801
>he can't beat shitty precon decks

>>54771792
>>54771801
Your jimmies seem to have been rustled.

ok then debbie downers what decks would you reccomend?

>>54771809
so even the call the spirits deck is good?

>>54771736
Do not, under any circumstances, get Forged in Stone, the 2014 Nahiri the Lithomancer deck. Mono White with no way of getting around it.
>>54771787
For "Angry about artifacts" you can get Freyalise. Derevi works as Prison. Kynaios and Tiro are fine if you actually enjoy giving your opponents all the tools they need to beat you.

>>54771801
Go back to complaining about standard or modern desolator

>>54771826
Anything noteworthy about call the spirits?

>>54771825
Fine, just play the same trash as everyone else at the table if you enjoy comparing opening hands.

>>54771825
Call the Spirits is Daxo siirc and no that's one of the ones that doesn't seem very good, just because the colors aren't super great together and the deck is split too much between its strategies. Daxos is a pretty poor card and karlov's strategy really needs you tongo all in for it to be effective, you can't just have random occasional life gain. I can't recall any super notable and powerful reprints in it either off the top of my head.

>>54771736
The newer ones generally play better out of the box while the older ones are more clunky.

Also Stalwart Unity has a lot of good staples, but like >>54771655 said, I wouldn't recommend it unless you want to buy a few extra cards to move away from group hug and maybe make it a landfall/pillowfort deck.

>>54771850
Yes, you should swap out Karlov for Blaxos, and focus on Lifegain Matters instead of Enchantments Matter. It's not a good deck out of the box, and IMO doesn't even have the explosive possibility of Kalemne.

>>54771862
>The newer ones generally play better out of the box while the older ones are more clunky.
This is actually why I only went back to 2014, 2014 is when the decks start feeling pretty coherent out of the box to me with occasional duds imo like the black one and the orzhov one.

What are some obligatory cards for building 5 color dragons? I already have:

fetches
shocks
chromatic lantern
sarkhan's triumph
Temur Sarkhan
Temur ascendancy
All five dragonlords from fate reforged
Haven of the spirit dragon
Urzas incubator
Dragonlord's servant
Dragon tempest
Sneak attack
Crux of fate
Ulvara hellkite
Savage ventmaw
Balefire dragon

>>54771836
Given his sever autism, I wouldn't be surprised if he was actually shitposting here.

>>54771862
There any good tri/quad color decks with green or no

>>54771886
Shichifukujin Dragon

>>54771370

Why do you think you need a whispersilk cloak?

>>54771892
Yidris precon is disgusting out of the box.

>>54771892
Atraxa is a fun strategy out of the box, of the old ones Mimeoplasm, Animar, Prossh, and Roon (and Derevi imo but that's arguable for some) all have potential fun stuff going on but their decks just aren't as good out of the box because they didn't quite nail it until the planeswalker commanders. Iirc the Prossh one is okay out of the box, I did actually play against that one a few times.

what's the mulligan rule for commander these days? my friends and i always used to pay "discard what you dont want and draw that many cards, then do it again -1"

>>54771907
I get this.

>>54771964
Same, but with one free at the start, and if you keep with less than 7 cards you get to scry 1.

>>54771924
Because Taigan requires attacking to do his thing and he's a 3/4 with no combat abillities? If he gets blocked and dies he isn't going to doing much is he?

>>54771886
>dragonspeaker shaman
>patriach's bidding
>farseek/nature's lore/skyshroud claim

>>54771850
>>54771858
>>54771879
Though yes if you want Call the Spirits, Karlov is legitimately a decent commander. He's better in one on one but you can build him kind of politically for multiplayer.

Also you get to play as a fat jew ghost which is cool

>>54771926
>>54771930
after looking at them i think im going to go with open hostility, it looks fun, and i want to see how well the idea of playing Hans zimmer French horn farts and wacking people for a bunch of dmg, what are some notable cards to upgrade it with?

>>54771964
>discard what you dont want

Are you seriously meaning discard? As in, to the graveyard?

>>54771393
6/5 vanilla flyer is not decent at any level of play.

>>54771984
>fat jew ghost

lol that seems fun

>>54771964
Officially, it's one free mulligan in multiplayer and anyone who keeps 6 or fewer cards gets to scry 1.

Personally, my playgroup does "Start with two opening hands. Pick one, normal mulligans after that."

>>54771983

Lots of edh decks don't have big blockers, and you can also use a removal or bounce spell to clear the way. You can also use a Counterspell on a potential blocker if you foresee a big next turn with the way clear

In multiplayer it's easier to connect that in 1v1

>>54772018
if they do you could use somthing like falter to clear the way too

>>54771995
It's not a vanille if it's a flyer, and it has haste. Yes it is. It's not gonna be playing at tables that want to win with a combo on turn 3 or even much lower than that level. But don't be a jackass. You're not gonna cast that and feel unhappy about it unless it's already down to like 1v1 or something.

>>54772018
No one is going to let you attack with Taigan if they can help it, unless of course they all ate a steady diet of lead chips.

People who let things like Taigan attack with 0 recourse are the kinds of people who let generals like Sisay sit on the table all game.

>>54772043
I won't play it in a craw wurm t5 deck. Raw stats do nothing in this format dumb Timmy, unless it's something ridiculous like Serra Ascendant. You are not even able to block with this shit.

>>54772043
Glorybringer is better and this dragon is printed in designed for EDH product. It's just dumb.

>>54772066
Somebody is gonna have to let something stay on the board at some point. You can't afford to kill every threatening thing every time it shows up in real games. I see it happen first hand every damn time I play, and we play at a pretty high level, though not turn three wins level usually. It's not possible for every threat to be answered, and if everything is a threat, something is gonna get through.

>>54772128
You're right. But oh well.

>>54771886
>want to build 5 color dragons
>don't have any fetches or shock lands or Chromatic Lantern
wat do?

>>54772159
Buy the precon

>>54771993
no, i just mean put it to the side and draw.

>>54771980
>>54772013
hang on, what? you lost me there. i said it's one free one then you said same but with one free one. and since when do we get to scry?

>>54772159

You should have all those cards for General deck building

>>54772133
Sure, but every turn Taigan isn't doing his thing and is sitting in the command zone is a turn your deck is losing, his whole gimmick is rebounding time magic so you can eventually win after your 12th turn in a row.

Not gonna be doing much with an 8 mana 3/4 with no ETB that then has to either gain haste or hope the board state is now quiet enough that he can stick without becoming collateral damage in the next sweeper effect.

I'm not saying he's super bad do not play, I'm just saying he's squishy as fuck and require a fair bit of work to even gain any advantage from him.

>>54772173
The official commander mulligans are like normal magic mulligans, only because it's multiplayer you get 1 free 7 card mulligan.

>>54772159
The Chinamen is always the answer. Pick up duals too.

>>54772173
Oh, wait. No, I mean you can set aside your entire hand and draw a new hand once, and after that you start drawing less. You're playing Partial Paris mulligan which has mostly fallen out of favor for Vancouver mulligan. Vancouver is what allows you to scry 1 if you have less than 7 cards in hand.

>>54768907
>destroy all non-sol ring permanents

>>54772196
How is it like 20 posts into this argument and you still haven't realized his name is TaigaM?
>>54772203
Non Sol Ring Non Lands.

>>54771990
im guessing open hostility isnt that noteworthy?

>>54772202
>Oh, wait. No, I mean you can set aside your entire hand and draw a new hand once
>set aside

That's not Vancouver mulligan.

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>>54771351
They like to make them dragons for some reason.

>>54772196
>>54772202
oh alright thanks. jesus, regular old mulligan? doesnt that make the game really difficult for non tuned decks?

>>54772227
what is? reshuffle into your library then draw a new 7?

>>54772227
Enjoy having to shuffle your deck between each mulligan, sure that doesn't get tedious.

>>54772273
That's the standard, and if you don't have baby hands it's not hard.

>>54772177
Yeah, I know. I just fucking hate how rarely they reprint both Shocks and Fetchies considering their importance in literally every format they are legal in. Their prints are way too few considering their demand and they've been the main reason I have yet to even buy a modern deck, since some of their prices are ridiculous.

>>54772238
It makes it easier for non-tuned decks because people can't just get out their goodstuff by throwing the crap back.

>>54772238
It actually evens the playing field as the tuned decks don't get to keep 3-4 good cards and then pitch the chaff in the hopes of getting more of their engines/combo pieces.

>>54772260
Yep, that's what the official mulligan is.
>>54772273
If you can't properly randomize a commander deck in less than 10 seconds of shuffling you're either a woman or have tiny little baby hands.

>>54772196
>Sure, but every turn Taigan isn't doing his thing and is sitting in the command zone is a turn your deck is losing, his whole gimmick is rebounding time magic so you can eventually win after your 12th turn in a row.
I don't think this fair. You don't have to do a lot of building around for Taigam, assuming turns is the strategy. At most it's all the extra turns, some more recursion you might not normally play like that shitty archaeomancer from Amonkhet just so you have extra ways to continue a chain if you miss, a ;little mroe ramp since two drop rocks curve into Taigam well, and maybe some protection spells from white to protect him and also get him through if needed. The rest of your deck can just be a real uw deck. And if you're doing the dumb timmy route and actually playing durrguns then you'll have even more threats, and that's just you, I would assume your other opponents aren't casting duds.

I'm also not saying hes' the best card ever better than narset or something, and I'm not saying it's you, but saying he's only fit to be played at a table of people playing giant spider tribal is absurd.

>>54772287
>>54772321
lol, nice excuses for stacking your deck

>>54772233
It's basically the only way they're comfortable printing CMC 4 dragons.

>>54772304
>>54772321
i guess so. cant say i'm a fan. my decks are pretty casual so not being able to do that kinda screws me.

>>54772227
>>54772260
>>54772273
>>54772287
>>54772321
>Commander officially uses the Vancouver mulligan. However, the rules committee informally advises deviating from that process and allowing "free" mulligans (as in multiplayer games) even in games with only two players, and suggests that shuffling be reduced by setting aside unwanted hands, rather than shuffling in each one, until after a hand is kept.

Making a standard deck here. Basically goodstuff, winning through attacking. 25 creatures suffice?

>>54772304
>>54772361
That's why my group favors the "draw two hands, pick one" approach. You don't get to sculpt your hand, it's the same as any other perfectly normal hand you could have drawn, but you're not left with the dilemma of wondering if you should ship back a mediocre hand and risk getting something even worse. It just makes it more likely everyone gets to play.

>>54772361
>>54772348
Both of you sound like bitter retards.

>>54772386
>hand has 2-3 good cards in it but not enough mana to be safe to keep
>RC advocates not being able to redraw those good cards just to save an average of 30 seconds per game

I've seen so many games get halted by people noticing they forgot to shuffle back in their mulligan hand, holding up the game while it's actually in progress because autists can't deal with shuffling their decks in a fucking card game.

>>54767848
Is there any notable upgrades for the open hostility precon?

>>54772431
>holding up the game while it's actually in progress because autists can't deal with shuffling their decks in a fucking card game.

Yeah, you don't sound bitter at all lol

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>>54772486
>lol

>>54772481
Infect stuff

>>54772525
What kinds of insectstuffs? saprolings?

>>54772481
Damage doublers. All of them.

>>54771886
>FRF dragonlords
All five of them are already in the precon, FYI.

I got the following a month ago during the leaks:
>Sarkhan the Mad
>Sarkhan Unbroken
>Utvara Hellkite
>Scourge of the Throne
>Dragonlord Dromoka
>Dragonlord Silumgar
>Hellkite Tyrant
>Dragon Arch
>Scourge of Valkas
>Dragonspeaker Shaman
>Hellkite Charger (goes well with Ventmaw)
>Primal Surge
>Dragonstorm (synergizing with Ramos)
>Door to Nothingness
>Malfegor
>Crucible of Fire
>Planar Chaos wedge dragons
>All the tribalstuff like Obelisk, Coat, Automaton, Mimic, etc.
>Elvish Piper because it's just good

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>>54772531

>>54772159
It's a little difficult, but if you go heavy green, you can run enough ramp to effectively fix your mana. Just include all the cheap BFZ/Bicycle forests to fetch up with forest-based ramp.
It's not going to be great, but it works for a casual to semi-competitive meta.

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>>54767848

This is fucking card is incredibly underwhelming.

I fucking hate how WotC has to make these hypergod things that should be 20 mana 70/70 with three pages of abilities into """"""commander playables""""" aka mediocre tired trash.

If they ever make a Commander deck with Emrakul, expect Emrakul to be a 5 mana 4/4 with first strike and flying.

>>54772511
http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=BITTERBLOSSOM

What in the hell can I do with Oloro aside from some pillowfort/control nonsense? He doesn't seem to lend himself to anything but. Just load up on lifegain, draw when gaining and what... Play big creatures at cost and hope for the best?

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>>54772685

>>54772677
im glad i wasn't the only one who noticed that

yidris, jeleva, kaalia, etc. should all have been way higher cmc than 4, at least for flavor reasons. why would a 4 mana bullshit vampire wizard be basically omnipotent? 4 mana creatures are typically just ogres and really strong warriors with a couple of keywords. but i guess jeleva is a 4 mana 1/3 because lmao combat damage doesn't matter in commander anyway so might as well gimp the card in that regard

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>>54772703

>>54772694
i play orloro walkers
>can't attack me
>good colors for board wipes
>ult walkers

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>>54771579
Even if you aren't in Esper to do the combo yourself, if you control a Phage and someone casts that spell, you can potentially kill the table

>>54772734
>Jeleva should have been a higher CMC
Dear God no, I'd rather not have to exile like 8 cards off the top the first time she resolves

>>54772619
But im not buying the precon. Only the cards I want from it which will probably be like 3 or 4

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>>54772734
You're absolutely correct. Omnipotent wizards should be 4 mana 1/4s.

>>54772694
Crested Sunmare, Archangel of Thune, Serra Avatar, Felidar Sovereign, Test of Endurance, Sanguine Bond, Exquisite Blood, and Aetherflux Reservoir. Stax the board up so nobody can remove these things, then win.

>>54771801
des?

>>54772821
>one can cast anything, from any library
>one can put a lower cmc enchantment on the battlefield

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>>54771370
>pls let me attack and bounce
>no
>b-b-but muh dies to removal is a bad argument!

Mental midgets who think bouncing stax = skill can't grasp that brago is fragile and his gameplan is so obvious that even Stevie Wonder can see it, what a shocker.

You need 3 things to make him even start to feel like a deck:

>ramp
>ways to make him not die in combat constantly
>ways to protect him

Sure, you can slap a whispersilk cloak on him and try and win, but you've now got to resolve that equip trigger and hope that no one is a big meany stinky head and blows up bragos cuck cloak before he can do anything.

You'd be better off spamming 300 extra turns with a geist in play, at least he's cheaper to cast and already has some protection.

>>54772823
Eh, pillowfort/stax. Same kinda deal that you sit there and win later with a combo or something.

>>54772741
They can't attack you due to pillowfort things, I assume?

>>54772877
yea

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>>54772734
>it's a 'Kaalia shitposter tries to hide his identity by including other cards in his rant' episode

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>>54772841
You're right, Zur is much better. What was I thinking?

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>>54771370 #
>pls let me attack and tutor
>no
>b-b-but muh dies to removal is a bad argument!

Mental midgets who think tutoring = skill can't grasp that zur is fragile and his gameplan is so obvious that even Stevie Wonder can see it, what a shocker.

You need 3 things to make him even start to feel like a deck:

>ramp
>ways to make him not die in combat constantly
>ways to protect him

Sure, you can slap a whispersilk cloak on him and try and win, but you've now got to resolve that equip trigger and hope that no one is a big meany stinky head and blows up zurs cuck cloak before he can do anything.

You'd be better off spamming tutors with a geist in play, at least he's cheaper to cast and already has some protection.

>>54773000
>>54771370
>>54772874
You know, I didn't notice the unironic use of "mental midgets" the first or second time.

>>54772933
>>54772955
i'm talking about flavor, not power level, you mongs

there's a reason why wrexial of the deep isn't 4 mana

>>54773025
Brainlets, when will they learn?

>>54773034
No, you said 'at least for flavor' and you're wrong therw too.

>>54773025
I am verry smart

>>54772933
>kaalia shitposters

Do we still have those?

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>>54773034
Yes, powerful lore characters have to be a million mana. That's good design right?

>>54771990
it looks good, but doesn't play as well as the others out of the box.

>>54771351
>3cmc 6/5 that hits everyone once
this is pretty good desu

New Thread

>>54773298
>>54773298
>>54773298
>>54773298

>>54773332
>>54773332
>>54773332

>>54773171

It unironically is. See: Emrakul. Though you can substitute straight mana cost for some other extreme obstacle to getting them to play, such as removing the counters to get the Marit Lage token (let's ignore how Vesuva makes that incredibly easy for now).

Iname's problem is that the card is weak, not that it's expensive.

>>54772677
I agree, this particular card is crap even compared to the eldrazi its underwhelming and the choice of character/scenario depicted should have some relevance to the rules/colours/flavor of the card.

At the same time, I want cards to be reasonably balanced so I get why gods and other mythical creatures will have oddly light stats when their abilities are particularly good and visa versa.

>>54773171
The spirit sets were a cluster fuck, everything felt made for standard and the rules are janky and specific, its hard making them work anywhere else.

This is an example of a near unplayable card from the set, like One with Nothing. If you happen to ramp out and get your choice of spirit lets say, Deadeye navigator, you've still spent a million mana setting up. 12 mana should be something that wins you the game or forces your opponent to get out from under something to win themselves.

>>54771858

Depending on your playgroup Daxos can be decent. If they suck and like to durdle hard and you have other at least semi-okay enchantments to run with him he's decent value once you have a few experience counters. I have a friend who has some pretty threatening board states but never wins because she absolutely refuses to swing for some reason.

The worst part about playing with that group is whenever I go to win I get told things like 'you don't have to try to win every game you know.'

>>54773512
>let's ignore how Vesuva makes that incredibly easy for now
Vesuva doesn't do anything. It enters the battlefield with counters.