/ccg/ Custom Card General /cct/

Bonus points for mono-White Vampires. Looks like they'll be in Ixalan, and supposedly they'll be included in Commander 2017.

>>54754594
How do mono-white vampires work from a color philosophy standpoint? They're kind of selfish by default. If they occured naturally I could see them as Green, maybe even Blue if they sucked out mental energy or knowledge or something, but White just seems so heavily against their inherently parasitic biology

>>54754679
Strictly ordered hierarchies maybe?

>>54754594
Belief that vampirism is better for all presumably. Ixalan vampires are conquistadors so its probably a catholicism metaphor.

>>54754679
There aren't a whole lot of Vampire cards spoilered yet, so it's kinda hard to tell. Though considering that they seem to be the priest-class of the not!Aztecs, I'd hypothesize that the normal parasitic nature of Vampires is dressed up as blood sacrifice to the gods (IIRC, in the Aztec mythology, sacrifice was performed to keep their gods strong enough to keep at bay evil forces). Which would actually be kinda interesting, since one of the bad points of White is that it cares about groups, not individuals. Sacrificing a few individuals for the sake of the group would be totally in-line with White.

>>54754800
I thought the Vampires were the natives. AFAIK, the non-native peoples of the set are all Navy Soldiers or Pirates.

>>54754824
No, the vampires are conquistadors. Was mentioned in the hasbro brand thingy last week. The natives are the dinosaur riding humans and presumably merfolk.

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>>54754848
Damn, missed that. Oh well. My point about White sacrificing individuals is still valid though.

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>>54754594
>>54754679
>>54754745
>>54754800
>>54754824
Monowhite Vampires work because tribes are meaningless as long as there's a fluff reason behind their presence in a color. Black Elves, Blue Zombies, non-Red Dragons, etc etc. The flavor is probably what you've guessed: Christianity metaphor about taming and civilizing savages that turn out to have plenty of civilization and culture already, just not the one the conquerors want. Nevermind all those desirable resources.

I originally had this at 6 life but I figured 5 might be a bit more workable.

>>54754824
>>54754848
Yeah, the few Vampires we have are Bishops or Apostles. The natives seem to just be praising the Sun and Dinosaurs as Avatars of the Sun. Probably why they aren't getting along with the vamps.

Still strange to see them monocolored

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Here's hoping this is the last iteration of this.

>>54754893
Eh, I know it's different, but all I can think about when I see this is how poorly it seems to me next to Angelic Accord.

>>54754952
Hm, guess I could reduce the life requirement. I was worried that since it can do 2 life on its own, and 5 pretty easy with Auras and Equipment, that I had to be conservative. You're also killing them while you do this which Accord does not do on its own. I can reduce it to 4 life, and maybe make it 2W but that feels turbo-aggressive.
>Clownface
I don't know if I'll ever like how this works, but it's your card so you do you. Already put my two cents in long ago. I think maybe it should be 3/5 though. It's a shame most of your stuff will never get playtested to know for sure.

>>54754952
Does the name refer to Mac DeMarco

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>>54755085
Sounds like a step in the right direction.

>Clownface
3/5? I'll try it.

>>54755106
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
I didn't come up with the character.

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>>54755166
>Progenitor
I made it 1WW and reduced the life requirement to 4. Should be better now.
>Panda
I think you need a "then" in there. "Then, if ~ has two or more gun counters..." I'm not 100% sure about that but I think as you have it it only does one or the other, not both. Aside from that, again, I've given my two cents on this one too. It's a bit too wordy though so I wonder what can be done about that.

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>>54754594

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>>54755859

>>54755830
>>54755859
>>54756462
sigh

>>54756462
While interesting mechanically, there's a huge flavor disconnect.

>>54755449
I don't buy this in blue.

>>54756483
Yeah, people not giving any actual feedback to the people who came before them, makes me sad too man. I mean, the least they could do is give some feedback on the cards. But hey, at least they're not the dicks who might complain about something without bothering to explain what's wrong with it. Because those people are the worst.

>>54755830
I'm honestly thinking you could just have the damage get dealt to the creature/player regardless, since 3 damage (note how I used a numeral here, you should too) is half the starting power. Oh, and "strike" here shouldn't be capitalized.

>>54755859
Meh. That's kinda it for this one, sorry.

>>54756462
Overly complex for no really discernible reason. And I really don't think this fits at common anyway.

>>54755449
Eh, the three or more thing kinda kills the card for me. I think this would be better as 1UB, mill equal to damage, then get a counter for each creature card milled.

>>54756483
>>54756711
Sorry. Two of those were me, mainly since I don't like bumping the thread without posting content.

>>54755830
The only term I would have here is that the three should be a numerical 3 instead when referring to damage.

>>54756653
Hmm, would simplifying it to just a flat 1 tax work better, or do you think that sort of idea doesn't work at all for it?

>>54756711
>be the change
Why try anymore? Honest question man. Doing that just gets people who put in zero effort more feedback, and those that put in more effort less feedback because the lazy people get what they want. It doesn't work. If you got a better way to look at it, lay it on me, because I've tried it the "right" way for far too long to listen to this "be the change" shit anymore.

>>54756740
I think the idea is really cool, but I do feel like it wants to care about milling a particular thing. Since its monoblue and a thought drainer type thing, maybe instants and sorceries. I think itd also be very interesting if it milled yourself instead of the opponent so you could build around it but eh. Id also probably stat it as cloud elemental (? 1/4 flyer for 3) so its little more defensive which feels more blue to me and also puts a little more value in milling the right thing. Its fine as a 3 drop flying 2/2 as well i think but I feel like I like that flying 2/2 is decent by itself but a 1/4 is passable and something about the gameplay i cant quite explain feels more correct to me.

>>54756653
Well I know the mill isn't the non-blue part you're talking about, so I have to assume it's the counters. Usually blue would spend counters if it gets them, I know, but I was trying very hard to lampoon Sengir Vampire in blue to sell the Vampire notion. Best I could come up with.

>>54756740
I didn't want it to self-enable right away, so I upped the requirement by one so you have to do work to enable it, but then it runs on its own afterwards. An apparently poor attempt at balance. Caring about the type of card milled sounds like it could work, though I would rather it stay monoblue. I have designs on trying a monoG Vamp as well, if I can figure out how the hell to even do it.

>>54756877
Instants and sorceries could work. Milling yourself is nice and all, but I feel like maybe that's a bit too meta for me. Also making it a 1/4 makes it unlikely for you to hit the card type you want as often early so it gets going slower. Blue's been getting more offensive lately due to the creature-centric nature of the game now and finding things it gets to do can be a bit of a challenge. I also don't like cheap creatures with huge asses personally because they slow gameplay down, especially fliers.

>>54754891
I need a changelog, stat. I think this is unchanged from your last posting of it? The effect is plenty UB, and the first ability is expensive enough that it makes the second hard to use, which is both a balancing feature and a big problem, I think. I don't have a good solution for it, I'm afraid. The obvious answer is to make her cost more up front and reduce the cost on the first ability, but then a 2/2 feels slightly mediocre, and a 2/3 really isn't that much better because she's even easier to protect. 3/1? I dunno.

>>54756820
Well I can start doing it, I'm just a strictly kitchen tale player so I'm not sure how most of the cards posted here would ever fit in any real competitive environment and I wouldn't have a real good idea on how to balance a card if it needed it, which is why I post here.

Post one rate one would be a good rule for me to go by

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Tried copying stuff before, but I think I like emphasizing draw more. Another previous idea was 1GU, and you drew by paying 2 whenever another creature enters or leaves the battlefield.

>>54757128
Last iteration before this is largely the same, just the last ability is different.

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>>54756820
I rarely post, mostly because I'm not super good at the game, but I'll give it a try.

>>54755166
>>54754952
I don't like using the weird counters, and would rather see them as charge counters instead. I'm not a /co/fag at all, so I can't gauge them by a flavor perspective, but mechanically they don't really do anything for me. "Black/red guy who kills things if he sticks around for a couple turns" is kinda iffy outside a limited environment. And the other feels like a worse inferno titan that can drop equipment on it for cheap, but that ability feels kinda pointless since you're already dumping 5+mana into the creature, which in itself isn't a good equipment carrier.

>>54755449
As >>54756740
said before, while the requirement makes it stand out more, it really makes it kinda useless, since blue doesn't really buff creatures much. I think it needs prowess.

>>54755830
Again, this one feels a bit on the weak side. Yes, its a 5/4 doublestrike haste, but it requires you to already have a board presence to even attack.

>>54755859
>>54754893
I think these are actually really good takes on the idea of monowhite vampires. Feels very white, but the whole life-feeding thing is still there.

>>54756462
I actually kind of like this, but it feels more green than black to me. There's only one monoblack creature with devour, and that has an additional black effect (discard) to make it more toward that color. Plus "Big creature that's hard to remove" feels super green.

>>54757750
While a close approximation, this isn't a white effect.

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Dont know the flavor of this but fuck it. It just eats mana or something.
>>54758522
Eh, it cant be white? Its not mine but I thought itd be fine the same destroy target tapped creature was fine. In both cases the function is that it mainly hits things that attacked.

>>54758588
>Dont know the flavor of this but fuck it. It just eats mana or something.
Meh, I think that would be something like
>Whenever ~ deals combat damage to a player, that player activates a mana ability of each land he or she controls, then empties his or her mana pool. Put X +1/+1 counters on ~, where X is the amount of mana emptied from that player's mana pool this way.

>>54758666
That is a really inelegant card man. Mine is just you feed it mana until gets fat and happy.

>>54758588
If "pay mana" is supposed to be a vampiric effect, then there are a butt load more vampires in MtG.

>>54758763
This gives me deja vu. Has this conversation already been discussed here before?

>>54758763
It depends on how you flavor it. Milling isnt an inherently vampiric effect. The same effects can mean different things on different cards. Counters can represent physical growth sometimes, or represent armament in others.

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>>54758522
What color would it be then? Red non-targeted burn is completely non-selective, and when it is, it just hits non-flying targets (Earthquake). Green has the same thing with just fliers. Blue doesn't do damage with instants and sorceries, and Black really only does damage to creatures in the form of life drain. On the other hand, White often does damage to attacking or blocking creatures. Since there are no effects in game that deal damage to specifically tapped creatures, I figured such an effect would have its place best in White.

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>>54758807
Sure, but I expect a showcase green vampire to be more than any old green creature with the vampire subtype slapped on.

>>54759050
What about >>54754893 or >>54755449 makes them have to be vampires (other than the first one making vampire tokens, but that could be anything)?Are they not also just "creatures with the Vampire subtype slapped on"? What kind of logic is that? A rather large majority of creatures could be anything.

>>54759167
I don't care much for the blue one, but at least it has a modified slith ability that characterized the Innistrad vampires.

The white one drains life and also works with the many vampires that also drain life.

>>54759167
A lot of creatures have that issue. Just another reason why tribe doesn't matter. The white one even says it.

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The card itself isn't white, but at least the tokens are.

>>54759341
>that characterized the Innistrad vampires.
Apparently not enough because they chose to bring back red vampires without having to tie them all to that ability. It was just a way for red to be able to show "draining" which is a tough thing to show in that color.

Your justification on the white one is pretty bullshit to me. It could just as easily be a white angel that makes soldiers. Lots of vampires manipulate counters because it's one of the ways all colors can show feeding, so my green vampire that cares about having counters on it can use other vampires that use counters, like Indulgent Aristocrat, Stromkirk Mentor, Rakish Heir, and more.
>>54759355
That's what I'm saying. What matters is the combination of mechanics and what it is going "okay, yeah, that's that thing". You feed the vampire your mana and it gets stronger when you feed it enough.

>>54759501
>goblin planeswalker leading a shitload of goblins to battle
>"Where the fuck do all these townsfolk keep coming from?"

Like the card, but it might be a little harsh. At least you can feed them to each other.

>>54759561
That might be an issue, actually. The Converter's ability is mandatory, and the two Citizens can just eat each other. Will add a may clause to it.

>>54759633
I'm not exactly sure what the function is supposed to be. Is it supposed to be an abyss type thing or is it supposed to be "you can't have anything except citizens"? I feel like for simplicites sake I'd like this a little closer to Ophiomancer like. If an opponent doesn't have a citizen, give them a citizen that makes them sacrifice a non citizen.

>>54759633
Swap it to when it deals combat damage and specify nonvampire? Changes things a bit, but I think 'sacrifices a nonvampire creature' would be pushing it.

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Also did an update to the shapeshifting vampire, changed it to turn into a rat since I wanted to save wolf for a potentially BG gold one.

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So yeah, hopefully the last time I revise this.

It's a tipple threat of features, but it can't attack, has 1 power and it costs as much as Phyrexian Obliterator.

Is the balance OK? Should it bestow wither instead of infect, since most New Phyrexian zombies already have infect, making this card kinda unintuitively redundant in combination with them?

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This is probably undercosted, with far-reaching consequences.

>>54759923
Mirror Gallery

>>54759923
irror Gallery says the wording for this is "The 'legend rules' doesn't apply" and that this should probably cost more, yes.

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The syntax for this probably needs to be adjusted. It should work like this:
- If you would sacrifice one of your artifacts with Arcbound Ravager, you can instead sacrifice an opponent's artifact, but not a non-artifact permanent they control
- With Airdrop Condor, you can use an opposing Goblin creature, but not an opposing non-Goblin creature
- For Alchemist's Vial, it should probably not be able to sacrifice anything but itself. You could *maybe* let it designate an opposing permanent with an identical name as a proxy sacrifice.
- For Eldrazi Scion tokens, it should definitely not be able to substitute anything else since there's only ever one thing that qualifies as "this creature"

Balance-wise, I'm probably going to increase the CMC to 2 or 3. Right now it's kinda Doom Blade on crack with the minor drawback of requiring an enabling card (which includes Cruel Edict). It was originally an enchantment at 1BBB but I figure there's probably at least one card that lets you sacrifice an indefinite amount of permanents during a single turn.

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>>54759952
>>54759959
I figured there was something I was overlooking. Oh well.

>>54760083
You can't use the sacrifice keyword action because it is highly specific in how it works, and that is not worth breaking for one card.

>>54760103
>>54759959
>>54759952
>>54759923
A smaller version could be cheaper, though I kind of like mirror gallery's ironic uniqueness.

Marvelous Multiplicity U
Enchantment- Aura
Enchant Creature
The legend rule doesn't apply to creatures with enchanted creature's name.

Unpersonate WU
Enchantment
When ~ enters the battlefield, name a card.
Cards with the chosen name instead have no name.

Both could probably cantrip for being incredibly niche, though Marvelous Multiplicity deliberately doesn't work with Krark's Thumb.

>>54759910
>Mtgcardsmith.com and its god-awful formatting
ew

>BBBB
My opinion is that casting costs like this are cancer, leading only to boringly-powerful cards which go against the design of colors because the force into one color. Phyrexian Obliterator did it, and that card is not fun.

Now for the constructive criticism: See if you can make it 2BB or 3B (or, at the absolute minimum, 1BBB) and dial down the abilities.

Zombies already have enough tribal synergies without any more creatures that do "Zombies you control get/have ...". Besides, infect is kind of retired AFAIK, but that could be a non-issue depending on the set this card is in. But it still needs its reminder text.

See if you can change the second ability so that the third ability is still relevant, but not an automatic thing. For example:
>2B: Put a -1/-1 counter on target creature.

Right now, I'd say the card is "balanced", but it's not a well-designed card.

>>54759910
>>54761200
Also for future reference:

http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Search/Default.aspx?action=advanced&mana=|=[BBBB]|=[RRRR]|=[WWWW]|=[UUUU]|=[GGGG]

4-mana Monocolor spells. Never again. Never ever.

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This card is based on the 1974 film of the same name. tl;dr for that film: Zardoz is floating head that gives barbarous humans guns in exchange for food, and teaches them that violence is their natural state.

Issues:
1. I am not certain what an appropriate P/T, color, or cost for this card would be.
2. As a god, it should probably not always be a creature. However that would make the card very wordy. Although since he doesn't feed on faith, it would make sense to also not have that effect.

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I want to brew together a simple Tribal focused cube to use as a way to introduce people at my college into better drafting/deckbuilding (Think Onslaught block 2.0). I might be mixing custom cards in (probably just lord effects/benefits for having X or more of that type of creature) but I want to decide on the tribes first. Rough draft right now is:

>WU Spirits with blinking/tapping
>UB Wizards with a bit of a Necromancer theme going so Zombies/recursion
>BR Goblins sacc outlets
>RG Beasts aggro
>GW Human Soldiers weenies/tokens

Any tips for someone wanting to make a cube for the first time? I know this isn't really custom card-related, but I figured it's better than just making a new thread for it.

>>54763525
>Green humans
Eh?
>Black goblins
Cool I guess.

Can't help you, don't know much about making cubes, sorry.

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>>54762349
I think Colorless would be fine for him if he's indented to be more of a construct. Avatar might fit better over God though.

As for the effects, it puts a pretty hefty tax on the opponent attacking, though it also gives something of a bonus. I think the wording could be improved, but I would say that if you made this thing something beefy like a 4/4, you could have all that at 5 or 6 mana. Archangel of Tithes would be something I would point to, along with Norn's Annex/Propaganda for non-creature versions.


Decided to fix this up into having a somewhat more Black effect by default, while altering the White effect to be more standard lifegain. The Black aspect rewards you for saccing more to it, and the White aspect gives it even if you sac nothing.

>>54765294
Still don't get the interaction, but I think better wording would be
>[...] you gain X life for each Plains you conyrol, where X is the number of creatures it devoured.
Or switch it around. I think. Honestly not entirely sure how the effect is intended to work.

>>54765294
>>54765424
Wait, is this devoured + Plains?

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>>54765424
>>54765739
I may have had the phrasing off. The intent was 1 life for each devoured creature and 1 life for each Plains, adding up to a nice sum if you had a lot of White mana and sacced a lot of your own creatures.

I also want to avoid getting it too wordy here. Tried out another option as well.

>>54763525
I would say that you might not have enough U Wizards that care about Zombies, though finding some that like returning spells should suffice. I also don't think Green gets many Soldiers, though you may be able to go with Warriors just as well.

As for building a Cube, I think power level is an important thing to keep in mind. You don't want to load up on of these archetypes with the best tribal support and legends ever, while another only has a handful of things to deal with and is mostly vanilla creatures that match the card type.

>>54763525
I was planning on doing this as well bedore I decided I just wanted to try working on a general cube, but something to make tribal work in cube I think, where theres (usually) no redundancy, and sort of a lesson from SOI which is why I think it was a useful set in learning about tribal, is that you should lean on the strategy more than caring about creature type. You can have some cards that do of course, but due to lack of redundancy and massive variation in power level and general... spread? Density? (Basically some tribes have a shit ton and some tribes have like 3 of these effects), you can balance this out by instead, for example, choosing to use cards that focus on self mill and grave value in UB eith an emphasis on using wizards that do it, with the few actually good wizard tribal cards, then making BR goblins focus on red and black self sacrifice effects, and choosing to only use a few choice synergistic goblin tribal abilities so theres some equality between the two in terms of density of tribal effects. And this also allows natural crossover between tribes for drafting-- some of your red goblin cards that benefit off putting things in grave can synergize with some of your blue wizard cards that can pull things out of the grave.

>>54767018
>when you accidentally write a wall
s-sorry

I'm super late on this, but if the anon I was talking to about silver border vs black border is still here, while there is a ton of untapped design space from looking at what is actually written on a card, it also opens up a ton of rules headaches, which is why effects like that have never hit print. I assure you designers made those effects and development or the rules team told them they had to shelve it; that's how a ton of un-cards came into being. Check out MaRo's Drive to Work podcasts on the un-sets for info on that.

>>54767018
>>54767030
It was good advice at least. Tribal should be based in keywords and theme first, and actual listed creature types second. It'd be better to include a BR card that wasn't a Goblin that worked with a Sacrifice strategy over an actual Goblin card in those colors that didn't contribute or worked against it.

>>54765786
Oh. In that case, you should look to War Report.

So, I'm curious, just why does this thing interact with Plains anyway?

>>54767075
Now the guy you were talking to, but looking at the Un-sets is pretty interesting in that a lot of the cards introduced there eventually influenced black-border design. Like how BFM inspired split cards. Which... now that I think of it, may have inspired Meld as well. Though Meld came about from a few different sources.

>>54767607
>So, I'm curious, just why does this thing interact with Plains anyway?

Multicolor subtheme. I wanted a bridge between Black and White at common

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>>54767607
>>54767640
Also, War Report ends up being even more wordy.

>>54767681
...
War Report says
>You gain life equal to the number of creatures on the battlefield plus the number of artifacts on the battlefield.

Translating that to this card would result in
>When ~ enters the battlefield, you gain life equal to the number of creatures it devoured plus the number of Plains you control.

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>>54767741
Yes, and as I said, it ends up being even more wordy than the version I just posted.

>>54767640
So it doesn't really matter what the plains ability does, you just want to cross the colors? I would actually just take the devour off this design and then focus on having an etb trigger that a white card could have. The problem with devour in this design is because there is a lot aesthetic reason to want to tie the plains trigger to the devour trigger, but scaling stuff like that is usually uncommon iirc, at least that's one of my measuring sticks. On commons I usually impose the mental limit of threshold 1s or 0s. Tar Fiend was one of the simplest executions of a black card that cared about what it devoured, but that couldn't be lower than uncommon imo.

If you want this line, MAYBE make it something like "If ~ devoured a white creature, do x white thing" or whatever the wording would be.

>>54767853
Not that anon, but I like the
>"If ~ devoured a white creature, {white stuff happens}"

>>54767853
>Hellkite Hatchling has flying and trample if it devoured a creature.
Wording of Hellkite Hatchling for reference. This is uncommon buuut I think you could justify it at common since it's only threshold 1 and doesn't scale.

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Speaking of white stuff.

>>54767853
>>54767918
>>54767932
Well, no reason it has to be a permanent effect, although some of the White keywords it could get might not fit as well.

Another idea I had was simply giving it an activated ability that triggers off of white, though I do like the idea of tying in devour with it.

>>54767932
Oh also I realized this would probably be an etb trigger and not grant static abilities like Hellkite Hatchling so I definitely think this could be common.

>>54767988
If you have devour on it, I don't think you can just have another random effect. It's functionally fine I guess but it's a really ugly design, because its two mostly mechanically unrelated things stuck together. Something like "When ~ enters the battlefield, if it devoured a white creature, gain 4 life" or something would be a really nice design imo.

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>>54767991
>>54768018
Yeah, I agree, which is why I was avoiding an activated ability or something that just gave a keyword.

Perhaps something like this could work?

>>54768036
Should be
>When ~ enters the battlefield, if it devoured a white creature, you may destroy target artifact or enchantment.

'White' isn't capitalized.

Good design by the way.

>>54768036
Nice. I like it, though what the specific white ability you get depends a lot on what's surrounding it. I actually really love this twist on devour. It's simple but it makes sense and it is a new thing and it's functional by enforcing color pairs.

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>>54768067
>>54768071
Nice. Glad it worked out to a good place. Thanks for the advice on wording and making it flow better.

I did want to include Devour in the set for this reason. There aren't really a lot of cards that have it, especially at lower rarities. I wanted to see it on more cards that weren't just large with a couple keywords.

>>54768111
Looking at cards, it looks like devour should come first here. It's a small formatting thing though.

>>54768472
Noted. I think that works better, as it won't leave anyone wondering what 'devoured' means when they get to the line.

>>54767607
Oh yeah, and super haste becoming pacts and stuff, it's really cool

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>>54769164

>>54769164
Playing this on turn one means you'll probably have 4 mana by turn 2, and 7 by turn 3. It's an absolutely insane amount of ramp that doesn't cost anything to use.

>>54769180
This one is a much more reasonable. Sacrifice to either get a big creature, or some LD with a smaller one.

>>54769164
this should not be adding 3 to your mana pool, or if it is it should have a much steeper downside. Also it's in the wrong border.

>>54769300
>>54769365
Lol I've done it with a sliver deck, why not with an Arbor deck? It's called potential

>>54769164
I kinda like the idea of a legendary forest, the place where all forests come from, that taps and searches your deck for a forest and puts it in lieu of making mana. Not sure how to balance that though. Also muh shuffling

>>54769677
ok

>>54769706
I think you could make it work by having it search your library for however many forests as it enters play and exiling them, and then having it tap to put a forest from exile onto the battlefield.

It'd still be quite strong at increasing your number of land drops, and also allow you a lot of consistency. Plus, if you have the exiled lands enter untapped, it serves as that land generating mana itself, in a way.

>>54769758
That's what I meant about searching for a forest in lieu of making mana. Maybe it's better for it to be a mana severance/endless horizons type thing. I actually like this idea but it seems like risky territory.

>>54770893
Yeah, an Endless Horizons style effect seems like it could fit. Having it on a land is iffy, but if it's on a Green Legendary land that would enter tapped, I think it could work out.

It does risk becoming rather imbalanced, as it basically ensures consistent land drops if you get it in your starting hand, but for Green you'd probably want other ramp on top of that anyway.

Perhaps exiling forests from your library, and then being able to add them to your hand in place of drawing? That would give the player control over it, while not offering extra cards or the like. Simply the best possible filtering for their draws.

>>54770977
I dunno man I actually really ike the idea that instead of generating mana, you just put an untapped ofrest in to play. There's something cool about that. But oh well. I don't know.

>>54771005
I feel like that could work, but it would need more of a cost to it compared to the hand or draw based versions.

Maybe if it instead was 'T: You may play Forests from exile' instead, so it still counted as your land drop? I'm not sure.

Assuming it still enters tapped and you have enough forests in your hand, you'd have 0 mana on turn 1, 2 on turn 2, 4 on turn 3, and 6 on turn 4. It very quickly ramps up if you start with enough lands to worry about your normal land drops. Add in any sort of mana dorks or other searching, and I think it could get out of control. Perhaps if it cost another mana to use, it could at least slow things down, but that just feels odd.

>>54771076
>Maybe if it instead was 'T: You may play Forests from exile' instead, so it still counted as your land drop? I'm not sure.
I mean that's fine I think. Also stops the shuffling issue. I didn't really have any issue with it taking your land drop though since functionally it is just tapping for mana, though it's ramping you more over time. I'm not sure how big a downside the exiling all lands is on Endless Horizons. I guess there's no perfect way to do it. Maybe you can't play lands from your hand?

>>54771127
The downside isn't that big so long as you still have a way to get those exiled lands back to play them, which this still does. Endless Horizons could potentially screw you over if an opponent kills it and then all your existing lands, but that doesn't seem like as big of a concern with this.

I think having it exile forests from your deck when it comes in and then letting you play them by tapping itself would work fine. It keeps your land drops on curve without interfering with your draws at all. While there is some vulnerability there if it gets destroyed, that could be solved by making it only exile a certain number of forests, say 10 or so, or having it shuffle itself back into your library if destroyed so you could at least get it back with land tutoring.

I know it's probably been asked a million times before but is there any online place I can get custom MTG cards printed that won't reject them because they think I'll be bootlegging legit ones? I don't particularly mind the quality but they'd all be a step up from my shitty inkjet ones so far.

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>>54771510
I don't think there's anywhere in particular for that specific reason. You might be able to go to an Office store or somewhere that does copies and print them out on cardstock, but you'd probably still want to sleeve them, and they wouldn't feel the same.


Minor worry I have with this card. Not sure if the life loss fits well as an option.

>>54772241
It's fine. Not especially compelling. I don't know if I like that it has two options like that on a common but I'm sure it's technically fine. If it were me I'd make it a higher cmc and better stats so it isn't embarrassing when you can't pay the mana with just the kicker and no life loss option. But like I said I just think that's simpler and more elegant.

>>54772651
I see what you mean. It does feel rather weak currently if you don't have the mana to scry and don't pay the life cost. I'll try and make it more combat capable or make the effect more sensible.

>>54772881
Oh, no, it's fine as is if you want to keep the life loss imo. It's not great but a 1 drop 1/2 that lets me scry 3 is okay. I would only change it if I got rid of the life loss alternate payment.

>>54772929
Hmm, I may still want to take a look at it. I was already thinking of removing the life loss itself as an option, and the card as a whole felt really swingy with how much value could be gotten from it.

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>>54772968
Tried taking a different direction on it. Now with proper image

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Made a cycle of rare enemy lands. Opinions?

>>54774717
Playable, but barely better than plain tap lands.

>>54774733
Fair enough. Any ideas how to keep a similar idea but powering them up a little bit? Maybe if I classed them as "Plains Swamp" "Island Mountain" and so forth, then you'd be able to grab them with land fetches

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>>54774828
The thing with it is that you're basically shifting the lands from tapping themselves to tapping another land instead. It still has the same issues with slowing down your overall mana.

They still seem fine as far as taplands go. Unless you tag on some small upside like Scry or lifegain, or add another ability to them, I don't see them going much further past existing ones.

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>>54775968
I like this card more the more I look at it. So long as you can block something small, you can easily get tokens, which can then hatch into smaller insects to give you a swarm of deathtouch.

The only thing I would really say is that it takes a while to really get benefit and the mana cost is high when considering that. Giving her slightly higher toughness might help.

>>54776095
Only green can reclaim any card type.

>>54776181
Only as far as it applies to hands. Blue gets grave to library effects according to http://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/making-magic/mechanical-color-pie-2017-2017-06-05

Most of the existing ones are in the form of shuffling a single card or the entire graveyard, but I don't see anything that would prevent putting it in a specific spot, especially further down.

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Can I get a double-check for the grammar on the "attrition" keyword?

>>54776673
You should use "Sacrifice" instead of destroy, and "permanent" instead of "card".
The secondary trigger ("Sacrifice this card whenever...") needs a time to trigger. I'd phrase it:

"Whenever this permanent becomes tapped, put an attrition counter on it. Then, if there are attrition counters greater than or equal to its mana cost, sacrifice it."


Also, adding effects to permanents is "gains" instead of "gets".

>>54777102
Fuck, mixed it up.

"Whenever this permanent becomes tapped, put an attrition counter on it. Then, if it has a number of attrition counters greater than or equal to its mana cost, sacrifice it."

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>>54777114
Reworded it according to your suggestion. Looks much better, thanks anon

>>54777287
Wait, wouldn't it be "converted mana cost" instead of "mana cost"? Or is that irrelevant?

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>>54777435
Sacrifice tapping sounds like an interesting mechanic. I'm not entirely sure the cost is worth the card though, unless you have an easy source of tokens to pitch to it. It might be able to cost 2; it feels somewhat underwhelming as-is.

I decided to make a Burning-Tree Emissary +1. I wonder if it should be RG?

>>54777298
It should be converted mana cost.

After all, a permanent can't have "two black mana" attrition counters on it, can it?

>>54777435
Seems solid, though it does quite a lot once it manages to deal damage. That's probably what the sac upkeep is for, but it feels more like a Demon rather than a Green creature.

>>54778249
It could be red, but it doesnt have to be. If you did make it Red, I think it'd work better as Multicolor over hybrid. As it stands though, it's solid Green Ramp.

>>54777435
>>54781463
>it feels more like a Demon
Make it a Naga Demon, and change the cost to 1BG?

>>54781506
That would make it more fitting. I think for it to be a mono-Green downside it would need to bounce one of your creatures during your upkeep.

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>>54778249
This card seems ridiculous to me.
Burning Tree Emissary is balanced mostly because the mana only exists on the turn it is cast, to prevent it from being used as a ramp spell.
Lotus Keeper on the other hand enables turn 3 6-drops with no other setup, produces mana of any color, and is still a 2/2 body on turn 2 if your opponent tries to swing in.

>>54778249
Probably way too good. Anyway, the ability for the token creation should be
>[...] create a colorless artifact token named Lotus Bloom. It has [...]
Otherwise you'd be making an artifact with the new subtypes Lotus and Bloom.

For a set with a minor class tribal theme which would fit for GW, Monks or druids?

So far:
Dimir Rogues.
Izzet wizards.
Gruul Shamans.
Orzhov Clerics.

Monks I'm looking at incorporating a prowess/heroic mechanic for them.
Druids would be a shapeshifting mechanic either through an activated ability or dfc similar to the eldritch moon werewolves but able to transform back.

>>54782530
Between these two options, monks. Let's keep Druids solely in green.

Prowess and heroic sound boring for monks though. Can you think of a new mechanic for them?

>>54782530
Depends somewhat what the mechanics for the other classes are. While Prowess somewhat fits in White, it doesn't really suit Green at all. Heroic or something similar that benefits enchantments and pumps might work though. Transforming would give you more options as a whole, but also might feel complicated and,out of place compared to the other colors.

I'd also say that there are more Green Monks than there are White Druids. Going for Monks also might help differentiate them from the Clerics and Shamans.

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Sorry for grammar errors, ich bin deutsch.

>>54782530
>shapeshift
Sounds gu

>>54756990
3 Mana R/U Fork at a minimum.
This is ridiculous.

>>54782926
This one is the only one that's phrased really weirdly.

>>54782946
>>54782973
As a whole, it's an interesting idea, and it fits Green fairly well. I just feel like itll be too easy to attain balance in some regards and too difficult in others. I mean, already among these cards it should be simple to get a 4/5 that can swing on turn 3, but at the same time a boardwipe or casting non-creature spells may screw up your growth.

Would Phasing as a keyword fit for a UG pairing? It pretty clearly fits in Blue, but I'm wondering if Green could get it as well in regards to its own cards as a sort of cyclic /self bounce.

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>>54784082
I was going to be a wiseass and say neither because Phasing is dead, then this happened. Surprised they didn't mention indirect Phasing in the reminder text though. Doesn't seem like it would've been difficult.
>While they're phased out, those creatures and all permanents attached to them are treated as though they don't exist.

>>54784082
>>54784480
But to answer your question, the MTGSalvation wiki says Phasing is already pretty GU. A lot more U than G though.

>>54784480
>>54784519

Yeah, that plus the relative simplification of the phasing rules made me interested in doing something with it.

I can work with primary Blue and secondary Green

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Celebrating the 50th card in my monoblack set.

Previously on Black Ambition (name pending): "Creature discard matters."

>>54783118
May want to add a non-token clause

>>54784874
This card seems fine, though it is rather wordy for something so straightforward.

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Can I get some opinions on some lands I've done for a custom cube?

I'm hoping to make them full cycles but its not too easy to make a cycle of 5 that all have a coherent feel.

Have a load more digital alters if anyones interested.

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>>54786538

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>>54786559

>>54786538
>>54786559
These are awesome. If I were still making that Asian-themed set I started I might have done something like this. But, I couldn't stick with it because I'm a faggot who can't finish things nobody else is interested in.

>>54786607
Yeah thats me also.

Managed to get 80% of the cube printed off so far between 2 of us though. Land and tokens are coming next.

I have a couple more jap full arts from that cycle but I'm not 100% happy with them.

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>>54786638
But thanks! I'm normally shit at anything to do with art.

>>54786660
>420 lol blaze it weed lmao

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>>54786674
Yeah fucking tragic
We came up with a bunch of planeschase cards themed around narcotics we dubbed "planeschasing the dragon"

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Jap lands I'm not so happy with

>>54786538
Sick as fuck

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>>54786726
also unhappy with this one.

The mountain and island I'm happy with though - Would love to get them printed on bluecore chinaman and give them to mates

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Decided to do some Skyrim cards. This is Whirldwind Sprint, which moves your character forward like he's the Flash. Haste and unblockable seemed like a good translation. And yeah, this has the subtype Shout. I plan on doing some things with it.

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This one doesnt really fit with the japanese themed unhinged size ones so I'm not really sure what to do with it.

>>54786737
Cheers lad x

>>54786638
80% is way better than 12 cards and a bunch of pointless mechanical work. I don't know why I care that others care, but I do. I just can't make a set for me anymore. Did it once and can't seem to do it again. I have to have general interest and I can't seem to get the same sort of interest Timeanon and Pirateanon and them managed to generate. Ah well.

It's really hard to find thematic, Asian art. I know your pain. The woodprint idea is really effing cool though so keep at the hunt for the perfect art. It'll be worth it man.

>>54786786
I assume it'll be like Tribal or Arcane and certain cards will care about that? Like a Dragonborn subtype or Dragons in general?

Also, speaking of that Asian set; I screwed with the fluff and the concept a ton before I hung it up, but I ended up with it being, instead of just Chinese and Japanese, and entire Silk Road sort of thing, including India and Arabia as well. The idea was that the Chinese-influenced folks were the ruling "Celestial Court" who had dominated things for the last several hundred, maybe a thousand, years. Imagine Alexander the Great's empire, but if it starting in China instead and lasted for more than a few years because it wasn't run like shit and had a plan. But, as is wont to happen, cracks are forming, and rebels are rising up stronger than in the past. I planned on a sort of "Yellow Turban Rebellion" happening but with several of the ethnic groups a part of the underground network run by two factions: one that's your typical "for justice!" good guy faction, and one that secretly-but-everyone-knows killed a god, drank its blood, and want to depose the Celestial Court and take over, and kill all the other gods too. Needless to say, some gods took afront to this and sent agents to deal with this issue; most to the Celestial Court to assist them but others to the "justice" rebels to thwart their alliance with the god-killers. Also worth noting that the Celestial Court is pretty tyrannical, and rife with corruption, but also has good people working for it too, so the only real "evil" in the set is the god-killer cult.

A lot to digest I know, but does that even sound interesting to anyone?

>>54787277
I know that feeling. While it's fun to make custom cards, going through the work to finish a whole set feels less worthwhile if people don't want to see it done.

>>54787990
It sounds rather political intrigue focused with all the courts and rebels. Personally I'm a bit sated on China/Eastern sets thanks to Tarkir and to a lesser extent Kaladesh

>>54788067
Yeah it turned into a bit of a fluff monster, honestly. I'm a GM by nature so this is what happens. I can't keep stories simple. And I feel you on Kaladesh and Tarkir killing the alure of that sort of setting a little; it's why I've been sitting here wondering what else there is to do. Africa? Russia? I mean, inspired, of course. I don't do straight expies. We've visited most everything else that's a widely-known, easy to grok setting template in terms of culture. I guess I could try to make something original. Maybe that's why Timeanon and Pirateanon did so well; they did original stuff for those sets that wasn't grounded in any kind of cultural template. I mean Pirates are a thing, but there wasn't much about "well were they Caribbean pirates or Drake-type pirates or what?" because that didn't matter really.

I mean I hate working on sets because of the aforementioned gripes. But I get bored with one-offs because there's no theme or unifying set of mechanics to both design and judge those designs off of, so I feel like it gets old after a short while. So I'm always sitting here in the "wat do" state of mind.

>>54788223
That's understandable. I'm kind of the same, in that I have to have a latgwr context or theme to really want to make cards. I do try and keep the planes of my sets simple though, even if I do want the mechanics to reflect a tone or story.

The key to me is keeping it to what i can convey through the cards themselves and maybe a short blurb describing the plane. Anyone who plays it might not want to read a book, but it's nice when they can grok the idea of it from the cards alone

>>54787277
>It's really hard to find thematic, Asian art.
Ive been working on a wild west world and among other issues, this is one Ive been grappling with. Im sure I could find a few pieces of art that'd work, but its just impossible to find enough art that matches the aesthetic and style I have in mind. And it just doesnt feel right without that. Even landscape is tough because I have a very distinct image in my head of what the lands look like. Other issue is that Im having a tough time nailing down a feel I want to go for thats distinct. Ive been doing some preliminary world building and doing some flavorful cards but its hard to make mechanics without knowing the feel I want, and its tough to do some tropes without a mechanics. Im kind of waiting for Ixalan since I kinda feel it was a top down set (or a really well integrated tribal bottom up set on the level of zendikar's integration of themes so far as I can tell) to see if theres anything else to learn.

>>54789032
Art can always be tricky, especially when you have a really clear idea for the flavor and mechanics of a cars, but you cant find good art to line up with it. The disadvantage of not having an art team I suppose.

I've actually had a bit of luck with my most recent set in that regard. I went into it planning a wide array of creature types since it didnt have any really specific tribal themes, so a particular card has a bit more freedom in what i can find to fit the mechanics.

I'm sure once I move on and do something with specific factions again, it'll get tougher. I would add though that dividing things by faction usually helps me sort out themes. Even if they're not as linked in fluff, having common keywords or mechanics to group things by helps a lot.

>>54789158
Its especislly importsnt to me becauee of whst Ove learned from Kaladesh and Amonkhet that they havent really talked in detail bout yet. Its kind of this... distinct details about the world that permeates the art that I think started in force around bfz (when they gave the titans their own distinct visual cue for their corruption) but I didnt realize it until recently. In kaladesh it was the curly filigree look created by aether and imitated by artificers. On Amonkhet it was the Bolas horns and god headed monuments. The things that make the world look distinct are very loud lately. I have a good idea of what I'd like for my world but its unfortunately, because of that, not an easy thing to find art for for even basic lands. But I think Id be satisified just doing the set even without art. It just wouldnt be quite complete.

>>54787990
>I assume it'll be like Tribal or Arcane and certain cards will care about that? Like a Dragonborn subtype or Dragons in general?
Like Arcane. I was thinking Paarthurnax would allow you to copy a Shout if you pay 2 as you cast it, Greybeards would reduce the cost to cast them, a Dragonborn card to recur them, etc.

>>54789282
Ah, I see what you mean. Usually I'm just satisfied with finding something that fits a single card, though one of the great things about magic has always been being able to tell the plane of a card at a glance.

Short of commissions or making your own though, the only way I think anyone could find enough unified art would be to find a huge gallery made for an existing IP.

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Concept for Shout interaction. Decided to include regular I/S interaction, but include a bonus if it's a Shout, so it's not as parasitic as Arcane was.

>>54788223
Timeanon also did the Egypt stuff, which was cool too

>>54790425
Certainly a step up from Splice, though I feel like it might just boil down to a tribal interaction.

You may want to add a unifying feature among the Shouts themselves, even if it's something minor.

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>>54790731
I like what you did there, with the reverse side casting the front.

>>54790604
Yeah but I was more specifically referring to the original Time set where it didn't really have a cultural overtone. It was just generic and the story/setting was all that mattered, and the mechanics conveyed that.

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>>54790824
Eh, there really is no unifying element, unfortunately. The way shouts are in Skyrim, they're basically spells by any other name, except they don't require mana. One shout shoots fire, another summons allies, another clears the weather, etc.

Might just change to pure Dragon interaction then. I was thinking of doing it anyway. Maybe something like this? Taken from the DTK cycle.

>>54790731
Cool. I swear there was another guy doing this, but I think he left. Unless you're him, in which case, welcome back. Or did you never leave?

Anyway, the reminder text should have Invoke be lowercase, and does the back side really need both class types? I'd say choose one. And honestly, I think that Shaman would be the better choice to keep, especially if you're going to be doing a lot of Invoke cards.

And while I understand that this effect is fine at common, being able to keep growing tokens like this I think warrants putting this at uncommon.

Oh, and "two" on the backside should be lowercase.

Oh, and you forgot to give the tokens P/T. And sorry for sounding disconnected and rambling.

>>54790866
...I get where you're going with this, but... all I can think of is to ask why it doesn't just have firebreathing.

>>54791308
I thought a Flowstone effect might be more interesting. Help encourage placing counters on it when you're otherwise limited to a +3/-3.

Would it work better if I made the ability colorless so it was less strict to activate?

>>54791308
I think shouts could still work, but it needs to have something other than just being Shouts for the sake of it, even if it's something as simple as cycling for eachother or being able to discard one to cover the mana cost of another.

>>54790731
If every Invoke spell's transformed side is a Spellshaper you'll have my support anon.

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>>54791494
So as far as Red's new pseudo-LD-tapdown effect goes, is there anything major to keep in mind? I'd assume the mana cost can't be too low despite the fact that the effect itself seems to be pretty cheaply tacked on to things thus far.

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It's a shout that shoves people/things backwards.

>>54791400
Not really sure what else to do with it, at least at common. Granted, it could just be my personal taste. See what others think before changing anything.

>>54791466
Eh, might as well just remove the type then. Hmm, I think I'm reaching the point where I begin to lose interest in perusing a card design idea. Oh well. Thanks for the help anyway.

>>54791528
Why Scry? Afraid land tapdown isn't good enough on its own?

>>54791672
Yes, considering that the only cards wizards has made with it are a 3/3 for 4 with it as an ETB bonus and a 4 damage creature burn spell which they've been moving up the mana cost of at common.

Near as I can tell, Land tapdown is only worth one or two mana on its own, which makes sense, as you're only denying them one mana for their next turn, as it also only shows up on sorcery-speed things thus far.

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>>54791742

>>54791826
Ah, I was searching for 'doesn't untap'. Must be why I missed it.

Still, you get my point, that's 3 lands tapped down for 3 mana, and it's also at uncommon.

>>54791826
>>54791866
Also, to clarify, I'm not opposed to changing it, just trying to explain why I added the Scry effect onto it to make it a higher costed card.

>>54791866
Look at what it's attached to though. I dunno, maybe you could do three lands at 1R.

>>54791651
Just remember thst its okay to have parasitic mechanics sometimes We get them all the time. I for one love sub types for non creatures because theyre very flavorful and allow you to mechanically care about them which opens design space and even more flavor. Just in Amonkhet we got a new aura subtype on only 5 cards with 5 cards that care about it. And its not like you can use Cartouches anywhere but egypt world. Thats it. Im not sure if its ever been more specifically elaborated on, but just remember just having the subtype and cards that care about it only in that set wasnt the whole problem with arcane and splice onto arcane. It cant be, just because they do it every other set. Maybe the problem is amount? I dont know.

>>54791528
Scrying just for scrying's sake doesn't feel red.

>>54791866
>>54791895
I dunno, I guess my main thing is that Scry by itself just feels odd. I guess you could do some sort of draw/discard thing, or I/S interaction.

>>54791895
Maybe. I did originally intend for it to be more focused on the tapdown effect. I just didn't have enough to go on for comparison, or more accurately, didn't look hard enough.

>>54791911
>>54791924
It isn't by itself though, that's why it's paired with the Land tap. I don't see how it's any less Red than Titan's Strength or the dozen burn spells that Scry as a bonus.

I do feel like I'll flip it around though. Maybe make it tap 3 lands, and then Scry 1 as an extra effect on it.

>>54791975
Because as incidental as it is, the scry 3 is still the stronger effect than freezing one land.

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>>54792006
Would you say something like this would fit better then?

>>54792049
Now this is closer to an actual card.

>>54792018
>Tap all nonbasic lands. Those lands don't untap during their controllers' next untap steps.

>>54792251
That's ambiguous whether nonbasic lands already tapped will be frozen.

>>54792143
Any suggestions on how to improve it further? I'm starting to feel Flashback is rather out of place on a more heavy lockdown like this.

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>>54792284
Only if you forgot that even tapped permanents can still be tapped, and therefore affected by this.

>10/1/2009: The second part of Sleep’s effect affects all creatures the targeted player controls as Sleep resolves, not just the ones that Sleep actually caused to become tapped.

>>54792284
How? It only keeps things on tapdown that it taps. It specifies "those lands", which refer to the tapped ones. Not that anon, but it works.

>>54792375
That's actually wrong. It taps all nonbasic lands, even the ones that are already tapped. So "those lands" refers to all nonbasic lands, so they all get frozen. You can look for pretty much any card that freezes one or more creatures and the rulings will tell you that it'll still freeze something that's already been tapped.

>>54792450
But YOU'RE wrong about what I said. I said "it tapsdown everything it taps" and it taps tapped lands. So no, I'm not. I didn't know that anon didn't know you can tap tapped things so IO assumed he did in my post.

>>54792474
Apologies, my misunderstanding.

>>54792523
No big; we all misinterpret posts and/or misread cards. I do it all the time. Cheers anon.

>>54792363
>701.19. Tap and Untap
>701.19a To tap a permanent, turn it sideways from an upright position. Only untapped permanents can be tapped.
>701.19b To untap a permanent, rotate it back to the upright position from a sideways position. Only tapped permanents can be untapped.

>ONLY UNTAPPED PERMANENTS CAN BE TAPPED.

That said, >>54792251 is right. "Those creatures/lands" refers "all creatures/nonbasic lands," not just the ones that were tapped.

>>54792624
Effects that tap something can tap a tapped thing. You just can't tap something that's already tapped to pay a cost, so they always specify in the cost text. It's just when you tap something that's already tapped, nothing happens; it was still targeted and the effect still "happened" it just doesn't do anything. Which is why Sleep works the way it does.

>>54792671
Effects that tap "target thing" don't fizzle if that thing was tapped. If an effect tries to tap an already tapped thing, that thing never becomes tapped because of that effect, even if the effect still happened.
This is important for things that trigger when they become tapped.

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Giving mechanics a shot again. I like how this reads like it feels. But it doesnt seem very flashy and im not sure how to cost both players looting. I kinda wish there was a way to showdown not related to cmc. Something more circular so it could be more strategic?

>>54792770
You're repeating what I just said back to me. Why? I never even mentioned fizzling.

>>54792770
>>54792990
Wait, I get what you're saying. Nevermind. We're saying the same thing but in a way that it looks different. Carry on.

>>54792984
What's the point of winning if there's no reward? Anyway, aa for alternatives, I suppose you could try essentially a guessing game. Netrunner has a mechanic where players would secretly pay 0, 1, or, 2 credits (their currency, partly operates as mana for them) and something would happen if the two paid the same amount. Granted, Netrunner's a *lot* heavier on bluffing and mind games than Magic.

>>54793190
You get card filtering. This is basically a Runed Servitor with a pitch. It was the simplest design I could think of that I could cost easily.

>>54792984
Functions really well with Madness and Flashback, obviously. I think it's better than Clash was; you're the dude who was trying to replace Clash, right?

>>54793279
I'd agree with >>54793190 that it feels odd to feud over nothing. I'm also not sure how to avoid cmc with it.

It might feel better if you're introducing other cards that key off of feuds, like enchantments that give you something minor when you win.

>>54792984
>>54793303
Also, I think an ETB Feud makes more sense. Forgot to say that. If she's truly the sweetheart of the saloon, you don't fight over her when she dies, you fight over her when she enters the room. Unless you're making a "necromancy plane" set in which case I withdraw my complaint but note the oddness of a necromantic "Wild West" theme. Deadlands, I guess?

>>54793303
Not him, but I definitely think it's better than Clash simply by being less random. And he fixed the issue of keeping Draco in your hand forever by discarding it afterwards. That said, there could be issues where you want to cast the thing and win the Feud, so you'll be forced to pick one over the other.

>>54793349
Malifaux maybe?

>>54793303
I had nothing concrete yet in mins, but I envisioned a grave mechanic that could be put on higher cmc cards (as well as lower) where you could do something with it for a cheaper cost in the grave, whih lets you sort of have some higher cmc cards to more easily win feuds and still get value out of it. This fits thematically too as in general the natives in the setting could be associated with the tradition and the past, as opposed to the settlers who could use this mechanic as away of conceptually throwing away the old and digging for the new.

But i really want to nail a marquee mechanic and this doesnt seem like it. Which is a shame because the xoncept of the showdown is one of the biggest parts of what makes westerns cool to me and one that feels like it should translate really well to magic.
>>54793349
Tge flavor is your opponent kills your sweetheart and you fight them over it.

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>>54793513
Forgot a different design

>>54793381
>That said, there could be issues where you want to cast the thing and win the Feud, so you'll be forced to pick one over the other.
This is actually why I put the draw first, besides flavor of a showdown mechsnic beginning with a draw, so you could have all your options available instead of pitching and then going "FUCK this card is worse".

>>54793714
Eh, I feel like Reef Worm is a more elegant design. Speaking of, maybe have the last Goat create a 5/5 Troll or something?

>>54793739
ALSO also its not really about winning the feud. The good aspecf of clash was thst it was filtering, but it was a lot more subtle. I think this is a little better since its still is filtering but it looks a lot nicer since its an outright draw. But maybe this cant work if people still focus on just winning it? Eh. Does it seem like a fun thing to do?

>>54793956
Having an incentive to win creates interesting gameplay as players have to weigh their options, think about what the opponent might have, focus on what they want to do with the cards in hand, see what they comfortable ditching and what they want to keep.

Without an incentive to win, it's just "Draw, then chuck the worst card in your hand." It defeats the entire purpose of the keyword in that case. Feud needs winners and losers.

>>54793956
>>54794030
Yeah, if you have a feud without any sort of prize, then it just feels lame. It doesn't get across the idea that you two just shot at eachother in a tense standoff, more like the waitress at the saloon just died and you insulted eachother over drinks.

Even a simple 'If you win the feud, scry 1' would be better than nothing. There has to be a reason to at least try and discard something good.

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>>54794224
I'm not sure I quite get where the artifact destruction fits into this flavorwise. It does make for a pretty tricky card though. The power is high enough that she'll certainly be blocked, and if they lack artifacts she won't be able to pump herself assuming she does get through.

>>54769164
Would be much more balanced if it didn't tap for mana.

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>>54794030
>>54794192
Oh, I think I misunderstood the criticism. I get it now.

Not sure what the flavor of this is so here. Can this still be common? I guess so.

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>>54794542
I think that's more suitable. It's slightly below curve if you lose, and slightly above if you win. And of course, it has the looting effect regardless, so you can ditch a high-cost card you can't use at the moment, or ditch one you don't need if you're not worried about winning.

Not quite as flavorful as the idea behind the Saloon girl you had earlier, though also less likely to get misinterpreted.

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Dumping a few other cards I made with the attrition mechanic I made earlier up in the thread

>>54796203
Gameplay wise, it should probably be "you may put an attrition counter".

Flavorwise, nah it's good.

>>54796242
That's a fair point. I was originally considering the fact that it was a forced ability to be an intentional drawback, for if you were to play Ponjir Raider while your opponent doesn't have any creatures out so you'd have to put it onto one of your own guys, but considering he's a 1/1 for 2 the extra drawback is probably unnecessary

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>>54796262
Holy shit just re-read what I wrote there. Sorry for that trainwreck of a sentence.

>>54796182
The formatting of the activated ability is off, needs a comma to separate the mana and tap costs.

It being a mana leak on a stick is probably fine since you only get 4 out of it, though you're also paying 16 total mana for those counterspells that your opponent can play around due to the visibility of it.

The box is also a bit crowded thanks to the flavor text. I would say to at least remove the name of the person quoted to help with that.

Generally, it also doesn't feel that great. I'm not sure what attrition really does here that couldn't be accomplished with Charge or +1/+1 counters.

>>54796192
>>54796203
I'm less certain on these and how they might interact with the rest of the set. It could easily make some attrition cards have their effect not matter while others might get killed instantly. Which may be the point, but it still feels odd.

>>54796232
This, meanwhile might as well not have Attrition at all for how easy it is to take counters off of it. It's a 7/7 for 6, but it's also a rare with no other effects except the attrition things. As long as you have any other creatures (it's WR, you will), it's barely a downside, so all you're left is an efficient vanilla beater.

>>54796262
That doesn't make much sense. If anything, you can just have him put the Attrition counter on himself, since he doesn't have a rule to do anything with it. Heck, technically, he could put it on something that's 1 away from being destroyed, and it still won't do anything because it doesn't trigger the check.

>>54796277
In general, I think the biggest problem you'll run into with these cards is exactly how Attrition counters are valued. How easy should it be to remove one? How much stronger can a card be for having it as a drawback? That's going to make or break a lot of these cards.

Sorry for rambling.

>>54796291
Nah, it's all good. I appreciate the criticisms. My ultimate with Attrition as it relates to the set is to be a consistently-appearing parasitic effect. I only have a tiny bit of the set done, so there's a ton of room for adjustment and tweaking. That is to say, this is just a skeleton of the "finished" thing.

For Leaking Automaton, would it be more reasonable then to lower the CMC and the Power/Toughness to scale? That way you're paying less mana total to get the leaks. Either that or maybe decrease the cost of the leak?

With the commons, like I said, I plan for a decent chunk of cards to give Attrition (mostly black and red, with blue having it to a lesser extent), and then also cards (primarily in white and to a lesser extent, green) that can remove Attrition counters.

For Martyr, I was thinking I should maybe make it a 7 or 8 CMC and give it Attrition 3?

>>54796356
I think part of what's throwing me off with it is that I can't shake the feeling it's backwards. Like, it feels as though rather than having these things build up towards a level of attrition equal to their CMC, it would be more straightforward to have them simply enter with a specific number of counters that you could modify, and then give them a rule for when they run out. Heck, you could probably keyword that easily "Charge X (This creature enters the battlefield with X charge counters on it. When there are no charge counters on it, sacrifice it.)"

That saves you an entire line in comparison, and is also easier to modify, since the charge value doesn't have to match the CMC. Then you can give the cards themselves specific effects that add or remove the exact amount of counters you want. Want something to degrade by combat? Have it lose 1/2/3/etc. when it attacks or blocks. Want something to degrade by effects? Have the effect remove charge counters as part of it.

It also works more cleanly with effects that could put charge counters onto things, remove them, or even move them around. It also puts the removal and adding of counters into more appropriate colors, with Black removing them and White/Green preferring to add them.

That all aside, for the cards themselves, I would say leaking Automaton could probably stand to be closer to 4 cmc so it could make better use of the mana leaks when there isn't as much mana to spare. Costing only 1 so you still have 4 uses would be fine since it's mythic, though I'd argue you could have it cost 2 counters and have it be more fair and at a lower rarity. P/T would need to be adjusted, probably to around 2/4 or so. The cost for the mana leak itself is fine, it just needs to cost less to cast the thing so those mana leaks might actually make a difference. After all, if you have 8 mana, so does your opponent, and they can afford a 3 mana tax easily

The Martyr would probably work much better at 7 cmc with attrition 3

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>>54796514
As a quick example to show what I mean.

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>>54786786
>>54790425
>>54791308
>>54791651
I like the concept of cards based on Dragon shouts, it's an interesting idea. I tried working out a way to do it based on the number of words you "know" being represented by how many you've cast before. Commons would be simple repeated effects, with a bit more complexity at uncommon, and rare featuring some of the ones that are quite different when fully charged. Included a Word Wall and Alduin to show how I think you could interact with them.

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>>54799406
That seems like a pretty neat take on Shouts. It gives a lot more reason to load up on them or take support for a certain spell when all 4 copies share a type like that.

>>54800317
Might wanna remove the tapped clause, idk.

The wording is funny. "Power less than ~"? Should probably be "With less power than ~", or, "with power less than ~'s". Not sure which.

>>54801836
I think you're right, I needed the latter wording to make it clear that it's power less than its power.

As for the tapped clause, I wanted it to be used more defensively to fit with the Reach. Having it require tapped creatures means it isn't too versatile, which I want to avoid for any sort of repeatable removal at common.

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>>54801921
It's definitely not too versatile if it can only kill creatures with 1 power, at least initially. Then again green is the king of pump, so after like, one enchantment of +2/+2 it could get a bit stupid.

Speaking of which, I wonder if this is balanced.

>>54802014
Thanks for the feedback. I may try the snake out at 3/2 to see if it fits better, or maybe adjust the mana cost of the effect.

As for your card. At most, the activated ability might need to be a bit more pricey since you could easily give several creatures lifelink, but I think the fact that it costs 3 mana helps make up for that fact. The card draw is more limited in how you can use it, so it doesn't overpower things.

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How do I make this less wordy. I might have to use a shorter name.

And here I was thinking I could give it flying as well...

>>54802517
You could probably phrase it as 'whenever the chosen player draws a card outside of their draw step' for a similar effect. That might help a bit.

I'm also not sure why it has to be a chosen opponent and not just each one.

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>>54755830
You are aware that this card's second ability would trigger twice if you tried to attack or block with it, yes?

>>54760083
I would word it like "Until end of turn, if you would sacrifice a permanent, you may instead have target opponent sacrifice a permanent of the same type."

Actually, I wouldn't format it like that, I wouldn't format it at all because this card is broken with anything that lets you sacrifice permanents en masse. This should cost at LEAST {2BBB}.

>>54769180
>Sacrifice a creature: Destroy all forests your opponents control. They gain 3 life for each forest destroyed this way.

Green CAN destroy lands, but it's very rare and usually combined with artifact&enchantment destruction, as with pic related.

>>54778249
3 mana split between any 2 colors for 2, on an etb, while also being a body is a little unfair.

>>54794224
Does the vampire have a penchant for vandalism? Why does it destroy artifacts? Does it drink the blood of artifacts? Why does it get stronger?

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>>54792049
Decided to revise this. Upped the mana cost so it won't be a total lockdown in the early game, but also made it give some mana back so that it's effectively costing you 2 so you can still keep up the pressure on them.

>>54791308
Same guy. I've just moved invoke to my other set as it didn't fit. That set's been put on hold due to ixalan.

I've made the fixes. I'll have to think of another common ability for red that doesn't break nwo.

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>>54806691
Evoke might be a good alternative if you still want to have creatures that double as spells.

>>54806741
>Devour a bunch of creatures (lets say three)
>Pay 1 and tap it
>Its power doubles to 12
>Cast Fling

If you can find a way to untap it, you can double its power again to 24.

Should probably be "Target another creature"...

>>54806741
The reason I went with this was to increase the # of sorcery/instants as it's a sorcery/instant matters set.

Evoke is a good suggestion though.

>>54806939
That's a pretty good point. While I don't plan on having Fling in my set, I'll probably end up having a few Fight spells, so it might be better to avoid letting it stack up power on itself to a massive degree.

>>54806949
Hmm, only other thing that springs to mind right off would be Awaken. There's no real reason you couldn't make it Red primary, and that would give you a relatively simply keyword to let various spells create creatures. It may have the downside of making mana bases more vulnerable though if people have to use them as creatures, but honestly that kinda fits Red anyway.

Are the images created by MSE proportional to actual playing cards?

I've collected a bunch of custom cards from here and I'm at the point of wanting to print them out to do a stupid draft thing with friends, but I don't know if I'm going to have to recreate these cards to get the proportions right, and what the card sizes actually are.

Didn't see this information in the thread sticky links (maybe I missed it)

>>54806741
Not sure if its actually a rule, but for commons to keep them in check I usually try not to put scaling effects there. I think thats why devour didnt have many commons in the first place since the mechanic inherently scales. I usually try to keep to threshold 1s and 0s at common. If you want a similar common that care about devouring, maybe have it do one thing, like tap for +1/+0, but do a bigger version if it devoured a creature, like tap for +3/+0, and use the counters as a marker that you devoured something, like how they use them for monstrosity or renown?

>>54806949
Im not sure of your plan for these, but I love the idea. One thing Id suggest is for commons to usually not do anything and treat the spell as part of the creature as an etb effect. So for the goblin for example Id just let it be a vanilla on the creature side and let it be kind of like a Beetleback Chief. And at higher rarities, Id try to do some design space like fuse and aftermsth where they msde the halves support each other. Like for example a hordeling outburst that can invoke into a goblin chieftain.

Great use of dfc. I love them. I wish I had a cool concept to justify using them for a set.

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>>54809051
I'm not sure if I have room to differentiate between if it devoured a creature or not, but I think something like this does work better. It isn't quite as swingy with power level if you get a lot of counters on it, while still offering the tradeoff I wanted of giving up attacking with him to help bolster something else.

>>54809160
Cool design. Only thing Id do is make the cat a 3/1 or make it pump 3/2 or just make the pump +3/+0. Right now it feels kinda aesthetically off. But its a small thing.

>>54808356
I believe they are proportional, but I could be wrong. There are a few people here who've printed cards, but must of us aren't concerned with that, and thus don't keep that information around all the time. So yeah, none of that stuff's going to be in the OP. Sorry.

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>>54809281
I see what you mean. I think I'll go for a +3/+0 for now.

I did have one other common with devour planned for Red, though I've been struggling to find something that works. On the topic of concerns with scaling though, I think I might have found something else workable.

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So I was in the shower, and I thought up a dumb mechanic/subtype. Thoughts? I think it'd be quite interesting in Commander, at least.

Here's the only card I've thrown up, but I might make a few more just because why not.

>>54810026
A gamble implies that there's a chance of winning.

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>>54809139
So something like this for common.

Disentomb/Gravedigger split.

>>54810058

Well yeah, that's only the first one I made. Not all of them will have negative effects, that's just dumb.

I mean, the entire idea is dumb, but bare with me a bit.

>>54810086
Then question then becomes, "Why not just use evoke?"

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>>54810164
At uncommon/rare there would be more options to play with the mechanic.

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>>54810086
>>54810362
I think it works if the intent is simply to have them count as instants/sorceries rather than the usual type, but the only thing it really does that Evoke doesn't is allow you to easily give things 'flash' by making them instants and make the reverse side of the spells into lands, as they're the only permanents that can't be cast.

I think it works, but there needs to be a goal in mind with it. Otherwise, you're just loading up on a ton of transform cards that'll be hard to fit into a set properly.

>>54774637
I love it

>>54810164
The guy said instants and sorceries matter in the se and dfc was a way to get actually spells with creatures. I guess he could do token for example a 4 drop sorcery that raise deads and makes a 2/2 zombie too? But I think this opens up aome design space and also words words words. Im thinking dfc is the correct answer for this if theres some flavor justification in world and he does some more with it and if hes unconcerned with overusing it in relation to other "sets" around it.

>>54810086
Should be uncommon as this could cause the same recurring loop as gravedigger.

>>54810362
>>54810086
Why don't you just use kicker?

>>54810593
Can it? It returns a creature from the graveyard, but while in the graveyard it would be a sorcery.

>>54810527
If one wants an instants-and-sorceries-matter theme, probably the last thing you should do is staple them onto creatures. Spell heavy decks should be creature light with plenty of interaction - not regular creature decks with more etb effects than usual. He's going to run into the same problem as Theros, where "enchantment matters" was nothing more than a tag on creatures for things that trigger on enchantments.

>>54810792
That... was not a problem with Theros, or at least not an acknowledged one. In fact Mark said in his lessons learned I think that he wish he'd been more relaxed with allowing vanilla enchantment creatures to fill out the necessary amount a set needs of a subset of things to work well. Magic uses things that are "just tags" for other cards to acknowledge quite regularly.

>>54810624
A lot of mechanics could just be kicker. It doesn't mean it should be.

>>54811350
Let's try
>Discard your hand, then exile the top seven cards of target opponent's library face down. That opponent discards his or her hand, then exiles the top seven cards of your library face down. Each player may look at and play cards he or she exiled this way for as long as they remain exiled.

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>>54813329
Seems pretty nicely done. Rewards Wizard tribal in a flavorful way. High numbers of them might get a bit crazy if you're scrying dozens of cards, but Wizard tribal isn't often about swarm anyway.

>>54813427
Flash seems kind of odd here, but other than that it should be a solid card. Even without Towers it has a nice effect.


I've been working on a handful of lands myself. I initially wanted this one to key off of every creature death, but I was worried that would create far too many tokens too quickly.

>>54808356
What cards have you collected from here? I love seeing "best of" collages.

>>54816880
Seems fairly generic.

>>54819072
Damn. How would you have designed him?

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>>54813464
I would probably add another ability since I feel I'd be getting a lot of bones I can't do much with. Maybe add something for sacrificing 5 bones at once?

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>>54819829
I would add another effect to it, but I feel like that'll push it above common. Perhaps it would be better to simplify it and have it just create a handful of bones when it comes into play? That would avoid getting flooded with them.

>>54819829
That equipment seems pretty good, though more for the fact that it would give all of your equipment the ability to be used at instant speed.

The damage prevention itself is just going to be a slight toughness increase most of the time, unless you're fighting nothing but 1/1 tokens, in which case it's great.

>>54820573
maybe have bones be a common thing in the set?

>>54822438
I may make some other lands or cards that create them, though right now they mainly serve as artifacts that can be sacrificed for the effects of certain creatures or cards.

>>54822944
Well, you made a white card. don't know how much it feels like Captain America.

>>54822971
Well it's not that easy to capture the entire essence of a character within a single card. For what it's worth I think my card is a fair representation of him.

>>54820573
What effects are important to you there? If it were me I would make a standard pay N and sac to make some number of bone tokens.

I'd also make the bones do "something". I get their purpose is just to be sacrificed but it's really weird they don't do anything. Even a leaves the battlefield gain 1 life trigger or whatever would be enough for me. Maybe scry 1 for a kind of read the bones ish feel depending on what you want to go for though I think that may be a bit more than you want.

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>>54823264
Something like this, perhaps? I do think you were right about reworking it so the effect is on the bones themselves. Not sure if I'd rather have the lifegain or scry, though I feel like the Scry effect is less likely to get out of hand even if a player gets a lot of bone tokens.

>>54822285
Seems fine, probably pretty weak, perhaps 2 damage per wind counter?

>>54823381
I was worried it might not build up to a meaningful effect fast enough, though for simplicity I would like to keep it for 1 damage per counter.

Though I can easily make it work by having it simply get 2 wind counters during each upkeep instead.

>>54823351
Oh, I didn't think the things had to sacrifice themselves, I was okay with them just either etb gaining you a life/scrying 1 or leaves the battlefield, just because them sacrificing themselves is kind of anti synergy with what I thought you wanted them for. My first thought was leaves but I think I like it as an etb effect better. What I meant was something closer to Cradle of the Accursed or Foundry of the Consuls.

>>54823662
To be honest, I kind of like them having that innate functionality of a sacrifice to scry. It means that a card can create multiple bones at the same time and they'll still be equally useful, and that if you don't have any other way to sacrifice them, you can still get the scry effect.

While it does mean people would have to choose between using the bones normally or using them for another effect, I think it would still work for a deck involving them.

File: 1486097572935.jpg (40KB, 375x523px) Image search: [Google]

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>>54822944
>>54823004
Welcome to the club.