>50,000% markup over cost Nice

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>moulds are free
>model design is free
>all aspects of business are free
>GW's only expense is raw plastic

3 cents for the injected plastic. That's it.

>>54750680

While I think the price is excessive.

I'd like you to defend the prices of e-books.

go.

>>54750680
>DIE DIE DIE

>>54750815
>Steam downloads

>>54750792
>Literally shilling for shitty toxic plastic made by Chinese slaves
Why tho?

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>>54750960
Gotta keep those wheels of capitalism rolling somehow.

>>54750792
He has a point. It all costs money, just nowhere near "£20 a miniature".

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>>54750792
Oh look, it's another episode of JIDF.

>moulds are free
7+yo moulds are
>model design is free
May as well be doing SOMETHING as long as you're paid to occupy volume in Development.
>all aspects of business are free
If payroll and packaging are 86% of a company's overheads, that's their problem, not mine.
>GW's only expense is raw plastic
Only "current" expense. Moulds are made in-house or amortised, and the automated mills can run all night unsupervised, so the actual PRODUCT is practically worthless. Ref how it's given away whenever possible.

While this is all true of every company in the business of selling plastic army mans, only GW thinks a grey, 50-part model the size of a Land Raider is worth 45 quid. Other companies seem able to fend off bankruptcy charging half what GW does, but that's their call. 50,000% markup is GW's. It's neither right nor wrong - it's simply greed.

>>54750960
Made in UK

>>54750680

I get that GW is a company and has to make money, inflation is a thing, etc etc.

But the prices on their singles is just absolutely shocking to me. $30+ for ONE man-sized mini is an absolute fuckton of money, and way more than they probably should be charging. Like I get it if I'm buying like the old Ghazkull model or whatever, but they charge it for everything. I used to be able to buy an entire tactical squad for that much jesus.

>>54754624
>Other companies seem able to fend off bankruptcy charging half what GW does
no, while cases of stuff costing half GW exist, they are a minority if you don't consider hystorical minis. What is problematic about GWis that in miniatures the greatest cost is creating the mini of course, GW sells many times more then minor manufacturers, this means they would have an incredibly greater profit, this is both because they can, but also becasue GW chose the aggressive route of creating their own branded shops which costumers pay for. (no GW shops are for the most part not a service for the costumer because lgs exist, they are a service to GW becuase they make sure new players are recruited and that those players aren't tempted by other games in the shop they play in)

>>54754624
Not only current expensise with new sculpts. Also there is a very real optimist cost to design. Of course they don't sell at cost but I think you'll find most model war games sell quite above that when they are relatively well known.

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>it's another unemployed/underage/poorfag price bitching thread
My favorite kind of cancer. Sage.

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>>54754624
m8 it's called don't get into a luxury hobby if you can't afford it. Stick to something cheap like FoW or Dust.

>>54750792

- costs for design and research
- costs for 3D artists
- costs for thousands of custom moldings
- costs for overhead from printing
- costs for quality control
- costs for packaging
- costs for distribution
- costs for niche hobby (vs something like plastic straws to sell in bulk)

But yeah once you get past all that GW are greedy assholes.

>>54755015
>cheap like FoW
>Cheap
>FoW

>>54750680

Show your calculations for cost.

>>54754700
>>But the prices on their singles is just absolutely shocking to me. $30+ for ONE man-sized mini is an absolute fuckton of money
I have to agree there. The standard pricing for minis like that is much less than what GW charges. Even Kingdom Death's 35mm individual plastic dues are cheaper than what GW is charging. When the boutique options become cheaper than the non-boutique options, it is an easy choice.

>>54754624
>7+yo moulds are

That's not how accounting works. I guess you think cars are free too because they last 5+ years.

>>54755169
I honestly think more people would be fine with the $30 price tag if there were actual options for those kits, I get it GW does the pricing on the named characters and ICs with the idea in mind that consumers are only buying 1 of them. But $30 with basically no options or very limited options is what gets me

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>>54754624
>it's simply greed.
Maximizing producer surplus isn't greed, it's sensible.
Failure to maximize producer surplus is incompetence.

>>54755169

GW pricing is arbitrary. The HQs have never been good deals as they've always been a single miniature. There are other reasons why they charge more, such as people don't buy hundreds of HQs.

You also need to realize that GW can get away with charging this much because KD's prices are irrelevant. Someone who needs a Super Primaris Fagtenant for his all Primaris army to play 40K isn't going to be interested in historical figures or Kingdom Death shit.

This is common fucking sense, I wish you niggers would apply it. It doesn't matter if a roadster is cheaper than a minivan if your fucking wife is making you buy a minivan for the kids.

>>54755033
Like all for profit, publicly traded companies.

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>>54755157

It has come up in the ongoing legal case against GW.

>>54755374
some salty poorfags just sueing based GW

>>54755453
If you look further into it he's mostly salty that he couldn't return all his fantasy models after AoS started.

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>>54755464
>gw squatted a game i liked
>should i be bitter, give up playing, or just keep playing said game or even try the new version?
>no, lets sue them for 60milion dollars

i fucking love the US, one day i will move there

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>>54755557
You're even allowed to sue the government and win here.

>>54751099
By that reasoning GW must be making money hand over fist.

So why don't you go invest in GW, and take a share of that massive profit.

Or why dont you make your own model company and drive GW out of buisness by only marking your product up by 40000%?

This thread is an embarrassment.

>>54755374
Is this guy representing himself or are there really lawyers out there who lack so much critical thinking that they could write that and belive it?

>>54750680
You're paying directly for how cool the mini is. And this mutha fucker is dripping with cool.

A very primal, teenaged cool, but still.

>>54755557
By "return all his models" I mean as a retailer back to the supplier.

He's mad he's having trouble selling now outdated kits.

Although I thought there was a buyback program like there was for 8th edition? I could be wrong.

>>54750680
>Not 40,000% markup
GW can't do anything right

>>54755745
Ill be interested to hear how long he held onto the stock which he wants GW to reimburse him for.

I suspect that he held onto that stock for quite a long time, couldn't shift it, then had an even harder time when fantasy rolled over to AOS.

>>54750815
Labor. An author puts long hours/days/weeks/months/years of work in and expects payment for your enjoyment of the work.

Hosting. Amazon/Google takes a cut in exchange for distributing the book through their system.

These factors lead to an e-book costing as much as it does. Plus more popular authors can charge more (because they know we'll pay it to read the new "X book series about a detective with attitude".

I read e-books and think of it more as a service than a good.

>>54750815
>>54755814
Value is determined by the market and not by labour.

If people want to pay $40-70 for ebooks then thats what they're worth.

If i spend $500k renovating a house in a bad neighborhood, and people want to pay me $200k for it- then thats what its worth, and i wasted $300k.

Labour theory of value is the biggest red herring in economics.

>>54754624
>While this is all true of every company in the business of selling plastic army mans, only GW thinks a grey, 50-part model the size of a Land Raider is worth 45 quid. Other companies seem able to fend off bankruptcy charging half what GW does, but that's their call. 50,000% markup is GW's. It's neither right nor wrong - it's simply greed.
Remind me how many of those companies run model stores at a loss. I don't remember seeing a bunch of Perry Miniatures shops for example.

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>>54750680
It was all worth it

>>54756379
noice

>>54756379

Did you convert that with Reiver arms? Because it looks fucking good.

>>54755171

Molds wear down, too, so the idea that they are using literally the same molds is BS.

>>54756421
Deathwatch power sword arm and an apothecary pistol.

>>54755374

He probably compared the price of generic bulk liquid plastic to the weight of a mini, which is beyond stupid for so many reasons.

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>>54756379
Fucking excellent.

>>54756458
"Stores contacted the V.P. of ‘Double-Grand’ (associate of GW’s Asian suppliers) and received a Confirmed quote of “3-cents-per-figure” for said 1-inch injection molded plastic figures."

I don't know how the figure was arrived at, or what specific role Double-Grand has in the production of warhams, but there was almost certainly more information at play here than 1c = 10g GPPS.

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So hypothetically answer me this you faggots:

If 40k figures dropped to almost the price of packs of army men.

Like you could get pic related in 40k minis for what...$29.99.

What would you do?

You would have insane sized armies for a fraction of the cost. Would that screw up game mechanics at all?

Like what if a Riptide was $5.

Pros/Cons?

>>54756560
FOTM lists and cheese would become the norm everywhere, but if we could survive that the opportunities for silly shitty lists would arrive.

>>54750960

Not manufactured in china.

>>54756379
What reference is this I'm missing?

>>54756605
>>54750960
Pretty much just those pre-made bases GW recently started selling are made in china, and the quality difference shows.

>>54756522

Double Grand - by admission - plays no role in GW's Asian supply. Which means that anything they say is worth less than nothing because they are not involved with GW in any capacity.

>>54756480
see
>>54756627

>>54750680
You do realise the person who said that is an absolute fucking nutball, right?

>>54755772
Quality post right here

>>54756560

That would be fantastic - as long as the kits maintained their details and GW was able to continue to pay its staff strong wages and its shareholders a dividend all while reinvesting in their business to produce new models and content.

>>54756639
I'd say a quote by an associate of a supplier is actually significantly better than baseless speculation, which is essentially all we have otherwise to go off. It'd be interesting to see how GW responds with regard to their costs though.

>>54756723

They won't respond because there is no need. Also if they felt it necessary they'd generally bullshit about manufacturing in the UK and the increased costs.

>>54750680
>The price of goods should reflect the cost of their production, not the value the market will pay.
Go to bed Marx

>>54756795
>GW has an enforced monopoly on production of Warhammer miniatures thanks to IP laws
>The free market is bound by law, thus being unable to step in and compete, lowering the price of goods, fostering innovation, and generally resulting in a better industry for consumers
>As a consumer, I shall proceed to call anyone who dislikes this blatantly uncapitalistic practice a Marxist
Consider my emotional NAP violated anon.

>>54756896
So all IP law will be overturned in this case being filed by a nutter in Florida?

Keep me posted.

>>54756896

The market supports IP law - if it did not it would not buy any protected good against it's generic competitor.

I assume next you'll tell me you can't play GW games without GW miniatures.

>>54756944
>So all IP law will be overturned
We can only hope.

>ree everything should be free thread
Plastic moulds cost in the tens of thousands, concepting and sculpting in the thousands, packaging and logistics in the lots per unit, and entire business payroll and rent for brick and mortar stores cost lots.
Don't be retarded, gws margins are not obcene, their game is just kinda shit

>>54755613
i want to say bait but there actually are people who think this way in real life

>>54756560
No one would be assed to paint anything.
Also, lots of guys with no arms glued.

>>54757002
All this would be an excuse if all miniatures cost this much but they don't, GW has a huge markup from brand identity only, don't even try and pretend they're better quality than everything else out there

>>54757068
>GW is the only company with a global network of stores so they increase the price just based on their name

How the fuck do you think they afford the rent?

>>54757158
By doubling the pricing of models sold in places they have to ship to and banning independent retailers from selling products online

>>54757430

>By doubling the pricing of models sold in places they have to ship to

Americans don't have Aussie problems. Our conversion rate is fairly respectable these days.

>banning independent retailers from selling products online

Which stops them from selling their goods on Amazon, eBay, and Walmart, right?

>>54757158
They allow the globalist lizard-jews to build spawning pools and sacrifice children in their basements, and in return their rent is taken care of by the elites and their higher-ups receive the blessings of the dark gods.

>>54757497
>poor GW need huge mark ups just to pay rent :(
>stuff sold through Walmart and Amazon
so their solution to stuff being sold through third parties is to increase their prices? Why bother having stores worldwide if people buy through Amazon and Walmart? Why are you defending GWs shitty business model?

>>54757636

>so their solution to stuff being sold through third parties is to increase their prices?

I don't see this price increase you're complaining about. The old Astartes Captain model costs $30 give or take. The new Primaris Astartes Captain model costs $30 give or take. You would have an argument for GW product prices always being ridiculously high. But you don't need to buy a car, and you definitely don't need to buy GW toys.

If gw's pricing is legit explain to me why they banned uk stockers from selling outside the uk @ a discount? if it's cheaper to buy & ship to the southern hemisphere than simply go to a gw that implies there's a big fucking markup occurring on a 'fuck you customer' basis somewhere.
also, NUMBERS:
Primaris edgelord chaplain goes for $35 USD
35$ USD is 48$ NZD
GW price is 74$ NZD.
So apparently it costs them 36 dollars per model in shipping to go to the pacific instead of across the atlantic. That is bullshit and we all know it because that implies bulk freight costs MORE on a unit by unit basis than postage which is. not. possible. or modern shipping would never have got going.
tl;dr, gw are thieves so we owe them no loyalty.

>>54757724
Not thieves, just gougers. The important distinction is that you have a say in whether or not you allow yourself to be gouged. Unfortunately consumer action seems to be completely lacking in this industry, so more often than not people seem to simply put up with it or quietly excuse themselves from the hobby.

>>54755033
Maybe you could count this as part of "costs for distribution," but there's also including profit for retailers in the MSRP.

>>54757761

Or they buy Chinese or buy used.

>>54757724
>>54757761
Quick question, does running the retail outlets cost more or less in NZ?

It costs much more, especially for a buisness headquartered in England.

GE is a big buisness, do you belive noone has ever sat down and thought about making bigger inroads in foreign markets? Dont you think theyd love to break into hong kong and china?

They can't because although shipping to Aust/NZ doesnt acount solely for the price difference; cooperating the retail arm of thier buisness does.

>>54758093
i suspect it cost more than the uk. I know in Oz everything is expensive. What amazes me is that anyone is buying at this point. The group I used to play with only has a couple of die hards left. New zealand should be even worse.

>>54758165
People can afford it. What you have to remember is that although that new primaris marine costs $50aud, you can make more than $23aud/hr as a casual cook at mcdonalds (and thats when i was doing it back in 2013).

Like i said, noone at GW is an idiot- they know that they can get more players by lowering the price of miniatures; but they cant because the retail arm of the buisness would be unsustainable.

Part if the issue is intrinsic to running such a large buisness, but having socialist governments in Australia and New Zealand doesn't help.

>>54750815
>game designers and illustrators dont need to get paid

>>54758230
thats true. But you forget minimum wage is not keeping pace with the growing prices for everything. Sin taxes on grog and smokes have moved many people to weed and other drugs just for cost. Rent and power are astronomical in the suburbs. Anyone who buys GW regularly sacrifices most of their luxury money for GW and does nothing else. Thats why they are die hards.

>>54758309
I doubt they pay those guys from deviant art all that much

>>54758348
If you're talking about people who rent and people who smoke marijuana, you're talking laregly about a demographic that GW isn't trying to target.

And its a niche product anyway, even thier best preforming store will only be attracting a tiny percentage of the foot traffic that goes past- every store everywhere is being supported by diehards.

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>>54756379
damn that looks cool as fuck. heres hoping that seraphim squads get teleporter packs in their codex. epic.
>cheers luv, the cavalry is here!

>>54755557
>t. didnt even read the court documents
the lawsuit is more about the relationship between GW and retailers. and then he tacked an IP case (which won't fly) onto it to try to really hurt GW

>>54758394
That demographic is is young men. I don't disagree with you but I think they could actually improve sales by canning all their stores in Oz and letting us order from GW uk. Americans play in stores most aussies play at a club that rents a hall, or a pub room. Maybe the clubs are ded now though, I haven't kept track.

>>54757018
Its not bait he's being sarcastic you dumb fuck.
You have Labor costs, Design Costs, Mold Costs (AKA in the simple pipe industry cost about 5k a mold.), Machinery upkeep costs, storage costs, container costs. You have to pay Packers, Shippers, Maintenance Fees, Designers, the Cooks, Retail Staff, the big wigs, any on staff legal team which i assume they have since they use to be sue happy. They dont all just magically get paid.

>>54755613
>Or why dont you make your own model company and drive GW out of buisness by only marking your product up by 40000%?
because of the setting of 40K. people are invested in it.

>This thread is an embarrassment.
it's not at all. the only embarrassment is that it's showing through how many fa/tg/uys in here are involved business with GW. and it already did with that
>lel, manlet
shilling in various threads. really, the 40K threads here are becoming increasingly cancerous as a result of all the ninja marketing by GW affiliates. you guys are about to acquire a bad rep.

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>>54751099
2 aussie dollars buys £1
GW want $75 for the new models
£20 for nee models
Why does GW hate australia?

>>54758394
Oh I forgot to say HH was very popular in OZ because you could get it at UK FW prices. Thats what I base this argument on. >>54758503

>>54758527
Because your country sucks. Were sorry, no one likes your country, its nice for a vacation but between the deadly sea critters to the deadly invisible insects its a terrible island. With shipping fees out the wazoo. Hell video game companies hate your country.

>>54756298
so you're saying that GW is intentionally and continually burdening its customers with the operating losses of GW stores they never interact with in any shape or form?

>>54758559
It does suck, never come here.

>>54756586
batallion-only matched play would instantly become the norm

>>54758607
I wont, ill go visit your Kiwi Brothers.

>>54758503
The problem is that if you think the hobby is aimed at young men (and i mostly agree) then the life expectancy of thier customer is only going to be 10-20 years. If they go online now and get a bump in sales due to the price drop that is one thing, but then every year after that 1-2% of the player base is going to "grow out" of the hobby. The mainstreet stores give them a market presence, and it makes the brand visible to young males who are out with thier families. GW dont want to give that up.

Meanwhile afew more price comparisons; GW basic kits often come in at $50-60aud, a tank of fuel for me is usually $40aud and a ounce of marijuana is usually going to have a street value between $100-300. There are definitely people out there who can't afford this hobby, but a 10-20% price reduction isnt going to help. If you can't afford your rent, and you cant afford $50aud of discretionary spending once a month but you CAN blow $100s on an illegal drug habit then you've made your choices in life.

I already pay a 45% tax rate to support that sort of person, i dont see why private companies should be cross subsidising that behaviour as well.

>>54756648
i am assuming he resorts deliberately to hyperbole in the filed documents the same way one enters a negotiation with a grossly inflated starting offer.

>>54758519
Go look at the GW share price, if you really believe all your bullshit you are free to go buy some shares and make money off of other peoples gullability.

Or if you dont like GW threads, you could not participate in them.

But you wont, youre here to bitch about plastic soldiers being too expensive for your poorfag wallet.

>>54758670
Can non Brits buy GW shares? Im not into that stuff just curious.

>>54758527
Because you keep voting for socialists who make it impossible to run a buisness.

Only about half of Australians work, and the other half are kepy alive by robbing working people and businesses.

>>54750680
Even if you're being hyperbolic that's a retardedly huge number, that means that if every model cost 1 cent to make they'd be charging 500 quid.

So either A. You think GW is running one of the cheapest operations in human history or B. You're a retarded shitposter who killed a thread for this.

>>54757724
>nazi dollars
lel

>>54758695
Yes, you can invest in foreign stock exchanges.

Just remember that there are added risks; if GW stock went up 20% but the value of your local currency changes against the pound that could make it hard for you to extract a profit.

>>54758637
That tax rate is because you don't have enough money. You're supposed to prop up the housing bubble and negative gear it all away. Or start using trusts (though labor wants to stop that now). Automation is gonna fuck us so hard anyways. As for GW Street presence it is valuable in the long term. I just feel anyone who buys at current prices is still pretty dumb. But the pain in the arse of buying from some pole on ebay is too much effort.

>>54758628
good

>>54758368
as an aspiring game designer/publisher I am quite familiar with the prices and the quality of deviantart illustrators. and while it does add up for me, it's probably a drop in the ocean for GW, so I am inclined to concede this point.

>>54758762
assuming GW still manufacture in the UK, I don't know where they do it. But if they do that combined with running their stores is where the majority of their revenue goes. The design would be nothing in comparison.

>>54758670
>make money off of other peoples gullability.
that's not my style, sorry.

>youre here to bitch about plastic soldiers being too expensive for your poorfag wallet.
dude, I have been playing for over 25 years. I have enough models and the new stuff that is coming out largely doesn't tickle my fancy.

>>54756379
Planning on doing the same but with the deathwatch shotguns

>>54758718
Anon, 1 cent to $500 is a 5,000,000%
markup.

>>54758787
It's probably somewhere in nottingham

>>54758725
So if the USD got stronger compared to where it is now with the Pound, i would lose money, and vice versa?

>>54758822
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign_exchange_risk

>>54758812
good for nottingham, for such a greedy company you would expect them to offshore it.

>wanted to buy this guy
>bought a mini from another company instead
Wow that sucks

>>54758920
I think part of the reason they charge so much is that they DON'T outsource their manufacturing

>>54754624
> Oh look, it's another episode of JIDF.

what is it with 40k fans an /pol/ack attitudes?

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>60 aud for a single character
>buy an inevitable multipart kit of primaris and use that, the DI monoposers, my heresy bitsbox and basic greenstuff and painting skills to produce twenty-odd characters that i sell on ebay for three-quarters a new character's retail
>buy myself a heresy superheavy and snort resin all day erryday

>>54755870
true, but the op false argument is about profit margin, specifically price markup of cost.

labor is a cost, along with other production an distribution costs, which are then marked up by the profit margin to arrive at the sale price.

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>>54759071

>>54756627
nothing personal.

>>54756431
>Molds wear down
Haha no you mongoloid. Molds are made of METAL while they inject PLASTIC in them. I'd like to see you try cutting a metal pipe with a plastic knife.

>>54750792
>this kills the rubricae

>>54759312
At least he got one last succ

>>54758808
In my defense, I had literally just woken up.

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>>54758559
Yes dont come, we are full.

>>54759651
It's alright anon, we all slip up from time to time.

>>54759295
http://www8.basf.us//PLASTICSWEB/displayanyfile?id=0901a5e180004878

Nothing lasts forever.

>>54759703
....That can't be real, anon. Please tell me that's a shoop

>>54759802
It's a shoop

>>54759071
something something god-emperor something

>>54755033
just dont - poorfags and spregs wont understand it anyhow. Their problem is that their job is worthless and so they think everything should be free.

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>>54759703
>collisions
>headfirst
mfw

>>54758527
fucking tariffs on shit that isn't produced domestically

>>54755015
this is a terrible argument
what if i've been in the hobby for years and i've been slowly getting priced out because of constant price hikes.
I can't complain that a hobby i've spent so much time and money in, is getting unnecessarily over priced?
eventually people will speak with there wallets and the market will fix there prices or they will go under.

>>54750680
>every one know about economics thread
>every one know GW market better than GW thread
>muh luxury hobby poor fag

>>54754715
>they are a minority if you don't consider hystorical minis
Why would you not consider Historicals? You can get 40 28mm dudes from the Perry Brothers for the same price GW gives you 10 dudes.

>>54758649

Judges aren't particularly known for responding favourably to wild hyperbole.

>>54758725

>if GW stock went up 20%

The big gains have all happened already, GW shares have grown by 320% this year. Future growth is unlikely to be as crazy. Dividends are great too, I've seen £750 on those alone in the last six months. Literally the best investment I ever made.

>>54758733

The retail arm is the single biggest cost at GW, from what I remember of the annual report. It eats something like half of their expenditure. Product development and manufacturing is a relatively small portion. As a business model the bricks and mortar stores made sense in the 1990s when the company first took off (under Kirby, which is why he stayed in control for so long). There was minimal internet, people shopped on the high street and that was the best way for them to get custom. Now I'm not so sure, specialist retailers of a single product have a hard time surviving, but the company is wedded to the model for now.

>>54750680
Because that the price the market will bear. Don't like it? Don't buy it.

>>54759703
As ridiculous as most of the things in this picture are, the idea of a site or program you could log your planned route for a jog that could later be pulled up in case of a missing person case does sound pretty alright. Tack on some fitness stuff to give the thing some utility and shove it into a phone for ease of use and I think you might have yourself a two hundred dollar idea.

>>54760946
>It eats something like half of their expenditure.
It used to be a lot more than half. They've been cutting back in the past 10~ years.

>>54760946
Brick-and-mortar stores are suffering in nearly every sector, to be honest.

Buying online is far more convenient, but it does kind of shaft physical stores. This would probably bother me more if I'd had a positive customer service experience in a brick-and-mortar store in the past decade. Unfortunately, all I've seen lately are 'cost-effective' teenagers, mother's milk still wet on their faces, with fuckall knowledge about or interest in the products they're selling.

>>54750680
>WE GUN LEAVE THE EU

>>54761044
>>54761110

They're a hugely expensive thing to run. I can get why GW does it - it's all about creating a community, and it does work on some levels, I suppose. The problem is that running a store large enough to house a proper community, with decent space for gaming, is too expensive to do on the income generated by selling GW product alone. The one man stores are too small and pokey to house anything but a hardcore of turbonerds who are offputting to newcomers. I don't know how GW is going to square that circle. A couple of years ago I thought they'd have to do something about it sharpish, but their recent improvement in turnover means that it'll be business as usual so far as retail locations are concerned.

>>54756379
ahhh why would you fully assemble before painting it

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Ok, but why dont you copy GW and make your own molds and make parts from bluestuff and epoxy?
https://youtu.be/mVZLXLaidjQ
Or why dont you support your friend with this pic stuff?

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>>54756379

>>54761332
What's even this game?

>some idiot saying people don't buy historicals or KD when a 40k mini is too expensive.
But... i literally do this. Every time im unhappy with a GW price i go straight to historics or KD for an alternative.

You know what's hilarious? You guys are shilling a guy who literally believes he has psychic magic powers. The guy suing GW believes he can move objects with his spiritual energy. An 'ability' debunked in the 80's. /tg/ is being purposefully retarded because 'for the lulz'.

>GEE DUBS IS EVIL OVERCOSTED
>Actually, they're probably the cheapest per model company in the world, with the largest range and the most regular updates
>NO THEY'RE EVIL KIKE JEWS!
>Okay, well, perhaps you should make your own company and push them out of business?
>NO BECAUSE THE KIKES STAY IN BUSINESS DUE TO 40K!!!
>So you're saying they have built up a business around a product people want, know people will pay and bring enjoyment to people? So all the work over 40 years has built up to them being able to charge what they are?
>N-N-NO! THEY'RE JEW KIKES! :((( IT ONLY COSTS $0.06 TO MAKE A MODEL SO A MODEL SHOULD ONLY BE $0.06! FORGET TAX, SHIPPING, DESIGN, STAFF, STORE RENT AND SO ON LOL ECKS DEE!

>>54761441
Maybe we can find a middle ground between 'pure evil' and 'perfectly reasonable'?
Cadian Shock Troops (10 dudes) costs US$35, and a SM Tactical Squad costs US$50. They're basically the same amount of plastic, but one has a nearly 50% price markup due to demand (SM are more popular) and maybe game balance (if they were priced the same, you'd be deterred from playing Guard since you need twice as many squads).
The pricing feels like mobile game pricing, and as somebody who otherwise wants to get into the hobby, that's a really shitty feeling. Not to mention there's only fucking Cadians and Catachans in plastic.

>why CAR is so expensive
>1500kg of steel cost around 2000$
>there are robots who make cars!

>>54761441
>You guys are shilling a guy who literally believes he has psychic magic powers.
nobody except for a GW shill could care less. all that matters here is whether the way GW treats retailers is legal or not (since the IP part of his complaint is ludicrous).

>they're probably the cheapest per model company in the world
t. not a GW employee at all

>>54754624
>automated mills can run all night unsupervised
I'm sat 30' away from Automated mills right now.
They can NOT run unsupervised.
There's 8 mills run by 4 people.
You need to load material and cart off swarf and slurry.
You need to check for errors.
You need to change programs.
You need to monitor for safety to make sure something doesn't go wrong and start causing damage or a fire.

It's a 8am-4pm operation.

>>54755033
-IT Department
-Licenses for design software (A few thousand pounds per artists)
-Servers
-Licenes for office software
-Replacing PCs every few years

That's a million pound moneysink.

>>54759802
It's not a shop but it was always a joke.

>>54754624
>I have never worked in an industry : the post

>>54761568
>It's a 8am-4pm operation.
Don't you work shifts ? I know most machine tools we have are operated in 4 shifts here.

>>54761548
To be fair there's about 20 different kind of steels in a car

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>>54761548
>functional mechanical world wonder
>molded plastic
pick one

>>54755374
>The man who represents himself has a fool for a lawyer
You don't type fucking legal briefs like an autistic forum post for a board full of spergs.

>>54756896
Kind of want to straighten something out here.
>Microsoft have a monopoly on production of Halo videogames thanks to IP laws

That's not a monopoly. It's their product.
If they made ALL miniature games, like they bought out Privateer Press and Corvus Belli so they basically owned all the big wargame miniature producers and used that to inflate prices on products, then it would be a monopoly.

Solution to GWs pricing is they include all characters in unit sprues.
Eg So you buy a squad of five of an elite choice and you get a character with that box.
Done. Thank me later GWs.

>>54758787
I can confirm they still make everything in the Nottingham site. Warhammer World is their HQ and factory as well.
The only thing that got outsourced were those really shitty detailed bases and basing kits which had terrible detail from last year. They were made in china and everyone kicked up a stink over quality.

It's possible that the battle mats are Chinese too.

>>54761771
The books are chinese too.

>>54761441
>they're probably the cheapest per model company in the world
Is this statement made in complete ignorance of any competing company producing anything outside of skirmish games, or have you done some bizarre mathematical wizardry beyond us mere mortals to arrive at this conclusion where ~$2-3 per model is cheaper than 20c to $1 per model?

Also don't post straw men this blatantly ridiculous anon, it's just shameful.

>>54761785
Its a troll and or loony. Literally everyone of these threads there is some grognard that denies historicals exist. Pretty sure they are the same little fag that didn't know the Perrys were exGW sculptors.

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>>54750680

Not if I can steal it because it comes in a small blister pack.

>>54755870
Value =/= Price

>>54755708
>this mutha fucker is dripping with cool.

Hahaha fuck no.

>>54755015
Got to agree with everyone else here. Warhammer didn't start out as an unsustainably expensive hobby, you used to be able to get way way more miniatures for your money and you'd have to be completely pants-on-head retarded to deny that their business model has gone to shit in favor of greed.

>inb4 "muh quality resin"
>inb4 "inflation"

no.
just no.


GW is 100% guilty of lawsuit-raping any smidgeon of competition to death while simultaneously strangling its oversea's market into a desperate mess.

GW is 100% guilty of manipulating crunch in order to sell miniatures and overly-fellating new releases to an extent bordering on Pay-2-Win.

GW is 100% guilty of exploiting the living fuck out of its existing playerbase by selling tiny army books and underwhelming data-slates containing a meagre handful of crunch. See: Skitarii outrage

>tldr:
>saying "HUR DUR STOP BEING POOR" does'nt help at all. Thank god NuGW isn't so bad anymore.

>>54761919
>tfw when i got twenty minis and a character for less than the price of ops character in the 00s

>>54755015
>FoW, Dust
>Cheap
Bait or retarded

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>>54755171
>I guess you think cars are free too because they last 5+ years.

Not that guy but your comment made me cringe. Are you being intentionally dense?

Do I need to explain how a factory-scale production tool is involved in a chain of processes which inevitably lead to the generation of profit? Said profit will eventually supercede the initial production costs of the aforementioned industrial item. Ergo; after a period of time, the costs of a mold are recouperated.

>>54761971
>Ergo; after a period of time, the costs of a mold are recouperated
Yes, but to do so, they have to sell with a profit margin in the first place.

>>54757724
Because there is no "Ban" there, they just refuse to sell you their stock if they see you're undercutting their own distribution for profit.

>>54761919
>GW is 100% guilty of lawsuit-raping any smidgeon of competition to death
m8

>>54755464
>If you look further into it he's mostly salty that he couldn't return all his fantasy models after AoS started.

For the love of god.
I can't believe these people are still out there protesting and complaining about the revival of a long dead game maybe 7 people in the entire UK played.

>>54762135
M8 AoS is even deader than WHFB was

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>>54762001
I didn't think that had to be explicitly stated.

>>54762193
>AoS breaks fourth most popular game of its type
>WHFB never did
no

>>54762193
>AoS made up 45% of GW profit last year
>3/4 of games at all 3 of my local GW stores are AoS
>1/2 of all wargames at my 2 local clubs are AoS
>AoS paint guides and youtube videos still popular
>No less than 37 AoS events and tournaments held around the UK last year
>GHB v2.0 just released

>"AoS is dead"

If you say so love.

>>54762193
Theyll bring wfb back just you watch.

>>54762247
WHFB used to be second in that exact same ranking, and third in the last years.

AoS featured in that ranking exactly one semester since it was launched.

>>54762251
>AoS made up 45% of GW profit last year
Isource ?

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>>54762292
And the Award for the most predictable comment of the thread goes to (You)

>>54762331
>jokes on (You) I was merely pretending

>>54761919

>Warhammer didn't start out as an unsustainably expensive hobby, you used to be able to get way way more miniatures for your money

This is hilariously wrong. Two pewter Astartes scouts cost $12.95 USD. The abundance of 40k products in the marketplace today is absolutely wonderful.

>>54758430
>Seraphims
>SoB getting new models ever
>specially in Age of Ultramarines
It still hurts

>>54762457

>what is Saint Celestine and her little lesbian helpers

>>54762477
>bundle with other models
>Celestine already existed
>twins already existed
>already had them
>even if I bought them there is nothing new to buy
>again
>for more than 2 decade

No random special characters are not even worth mentioning. Full new model line, they just need two boxes, Seraphims and infantry.

>>54761919
>Business model has gone to shit
>GW is making money hand-over-fist

Do you even know what business model means? I hate to burst your bubble comrade but GW is not a commune of plastic army men artisans.

But really on top of GWs growing corporate infrastructure the rising prices reflect the rising value of the IP. Warhammer in all its forms is simply worth a lot of money, that was not the case when it started out. The cost of the plastic is fairly irrelevant - GW is not selling plastic bags and customers are not buying their kits for the plastic.

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>>54756480
Klukva minis

>>54759295
Uh-huh.

Cars are made of METAL while you are made of MEAT. Try getting hit by a car and see how much of a dent you make.

>>54763059
Flesh isn't that weak

Checkmate mechanicus

>>54761548
Cars have 30,000 parts on average almost all of which are harder to manufacture than injecting plastic.

If GW made a Honda Civic it would cost $75,000 and would come unpainted

>>54754624
>7+yo moulds are

No, they're not. They require maintenance, storage. They have paid off the cost of their production, and the products they yield may continually pay for their upkeep by skilled or unskilled labor, but they are not free.

Let's not pretend you understand basic accounting here, because it's obvious you don't.

>May as well be doing SOMETHING as long as you're paid to occupy volume in Development.

Yes, staff have costs. Who knew? But I guess since we paid off the cost of a mold they designed 7 years ago we no longer have to pay them, right?

>If payroll and packaging are 86% of a company's overheads, that's their problem, not mine.

You don't understand the difference between turnover and profit. See also: you don't understand basic accountancy.

>Only "current" expense.

No, they have tax liabilities, shareholders, debtors (people they have to pay for materiel, people they have to pay for services whether at the production site or retail sites), employees, and so on.

>Moulds are made in-house or amortised,

OK, you *genuinely* need to stop saying words like you understand them. Here you're talking about two entirely different concepts - the design and production of a new product, and the paying off of that that product, as though they're solutions of the same problem.

To be clear, you don't understand how the conjunction "or" is used. You must be 18 to post on 4chan.

>>54754624

>and the automated mills can run all night unsupervised,

hahahahahahahaha

No, they really can't, you need at least someone to run security on a site like that, and they need to be physically able to shut down the machinery if there's a problem, and they need to have the authority to do so when there's a fire, break in or other problem that requires the emergency services be called.

If you're going to have them run all night you really should have someone who understands the process there, otherwise you need to have twice as many people working quality control on the morning shift. Plastic is plastic - once it's set, it's set. You're seriously suggesting that plastic molding should be left to run automated without even the most cursory human control? If they're doing that, they're wasting a lot of money on miscasts.

>so the actual PRODUCT is practically worthless.

No. A product has a value set by the retailer and agreed by the buyer. That's basic economics (which you also don't understand). Not liking it, trying to point out that the underlying costs are so low that "you could do it yourself" is how you end up drinking dog's milk because it turns out cows need a lot more space than you realized.

>Ref how it's given away whenever possible.

Yeah, yeah, I see them handing out whole armies on the regular too. Just this morning I was passing a GW store and there was this kid dragging a pallet of unsold Dark Eldar boxes out the door. The manager was screaming "get that shit out of here! nobody wants it and it's entirely without worth!" and throwing feces at him, but man, that kid was just so happy, like you wouldn't believe.

>>54754624
>only GW thinks a grey, 50-part model the size of a Land Raider is worth 45 quid

And they've been selling them at that price since the very first kit back in the late 80s - well, at 2017 prices adjusted.

If they suddenly got cheaper, assuming they really could, people would stop buying them. It's simply value-based pricing, and nothing much to do with GW.

>50,000% markup is GW's

Well taking that Land Raider kit as your example was probably a mistake, since the £45 cost doesn't really bear out your insane hyperbole.

You're alleging that a Land Raider - let's say you only mean the kit itself, not the instructions, packaging etc, since you did separate those out - costs 0.09 of a penny to make? Really? What do you think the underlying cost of the oil and refinement necessary to make the plastic is?

Are you retarded, or have you just been wanking into the strawman so long you can't understand how weird it is to other people?

>>54758577
>GW stores they never interact with in any shape or form?

Speak for yourself.
Also I will gladly pay higher prices if that keeps poorfags and shitters out of my hobby

>>54761346
Looks like some cod shit

>>54763306
This anon gets it. Shit they could easily quadruple the prices on their kits and more people would buy them.

>>54750792
You seem to forget that the figure comes from the quoted price from the people who make the sprues. They are making a profit on charging GW 3 cents a model.

>>54755015
>PSC or dust
FTFY

>>54763306
>implying price increase would reduce the number of poorfags
>implying you aren't just paying more money for a pretend special club

It was like the retard that try to show how rich he was by buying everything. He run out of money doing that stupid stunt

Just because you can spend the money means you should. But who cares it is only the marinefags that are getting dick over right now.

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>>54759703

>>54756944
Part of his argument was that the majority of GW's product has been breaking the IPs.
Making mention of aliens, starship troopers and tolkien among others.
no dune so he's confirmed to be a pleb

>>54758527
Criminals get criminal prices

>>54756560
we'd be playing epic without playing epic

>>54757497
>Amazon
i've yet to see a miniature game that doesn't have some stupid as fuck mark ups on amazon.
Costs 80 bucks for longreach teams
a 20 dollar product

>>54763818
GW does their own production.

>>54763299
he was referring to the court document which alleges the production of a 1 inch miniature is about 3 cents.
The land raider comment is derived from that assumption.

>>54754624
pretending to be retarded doesn't make you smart

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>>54763032
Gotta love those russian underground minis. Although I do like how the previously pictured chaplain fits the character perfectly for the 40k universe.

>McKinley

>>54761441
>The guy suing GW believes he can move objects with his spiritual energy.
>An 'ability' debunked in the 80's.

Oh, thanks for pointing that out.

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>>54761441
>he believes is wacky shit
well he's a burger thanks for pointing out the obvious.
The courts will decide if the charges he's levied against them are reasonable or not. Not idiots on the internet who believe a man's private beliefs may invalidate his arguments. (personally i believe he is a nutter and he will 1. not get what he wants or really anything and is just wasting time and money again my opinion has no importance.)

>>Actually, they're probably the cheapest per model company in the world, with the largest range and the most regular updates
ah i did not know it was time for bizarro /tg/
seriously though where did you get that "fact"

I understand GW prices. Secondary markets (eBay, etc) for RARE OOP items... those are bullshit.

>>54761441
>IT ONLY COSTS $0.06 TO MAKE A MODEL SO A MODEL SHOULD ONLY BE $0.06!
No one is saying it should be equal or close to production costs, stop being a retard.

>>54765195
What is puzzling is how they are not within the 15% profit. (Bloody hell if remember the report where they said it)
I work with bloody berries that need a lot more work to even survive the trip to a supermarket and work with 20% profit

The only explanation is their stores are eating a lot of said profit or they are spending all that money in some Thai ladyboy

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>>54755344
This and checked, its all about demand

I think that pricing of these single models is actually a good thing vecause of who they target. Your average gamer is going to say "fuck that" and just proxy the hq anyways since he is playing with his buddies and the dont care. I have over 7k points of space marines but only have 6 hqs, only 1 of which i spent over 10 dollars for.

The main target of these models are the tournement players, as their armies HAVE to be wysiwyg or else they cant play, so they follow the meta and buy whatever hq is good at that moment in time in order to win.

If all these tournement players buying these bullshit models keeps the price of squads down, im totally fine with that.

>>54754624
What I don't understand is why do you expect any of this to be accurate when you clearly have no experience or specific knowledge of the industry to base it on.

Do you really think you can just guess GW's entire operation from some stuff you've picked up and being a fan?

>>54758165
It's pretty dead compared to what it was 10-15 years ago in NZ unfortunately.
Price raises combined with less models in the box and cutting down on overseas sellers and the rules/meta necessitating more models on the field + bigger more expensive units drove a lot out of the game.

>>54755315
As a cold hearted capitalist I will defend to the death the right of a company to bleed their customers dry.

As a customer I will still bitch as loud as I can that Its unfair that I'm being bled dry.

>>54765354
How does wysiwyg work by the way? Are kitbashed versions allowed as long as they have the correct base and weapons and general look? I ask because i use chaos marauder horsemen+guardmen to make rough riders.

>>54756723
Partially, but that makes him a fucking idiot.
You should never ever use hyperbole in a legal document, save that shit for the court room.
I'd be fired if I even thought about doing what he did.

>>54765667
As a fellow Kiwi, the game is considered more a 'curiosity' than anything any sane person that doesn't wipe their arse on hundred dollar bills could invest in.
There are, of course, the occasional sperglords, we are euro after all, but
-Rules approaching paper-scissors-rock-on-krokodil,
-warhammer being MURDERED in its sleep (and fans betrayed)
-Warmahordes offering a reasonable competitive product,
GW is kind of a joke, in my circles at least.

Chad Marines? Tubby (centurion) Marines? A FLYING BRICK? What the actual fuck?
These are kiddie toys, not wargaming models.

>>54766624
>-Warmahordes offering a reasonable competitive product,
Kek, not with mk. 3 they aren't

>>54766672
Yeah, not wrong. I dropped out of play with mark 3 myself. Perhaps I just wasn't ready for ANOTHER edition change to the wargame I'm playing.
I mean seriously, are we going with a) they fucked it up the first time and need to fix it
or
b) We like selling books, buy our books, idiots.

Both look bad, but chucking out editions is just not cool.

>>54766826
I think they got too confident in their success and that led them to make some stupid mistakes. It's not uncommon, samething happened to GW, or even more famously Microsoft, who thought their success with the 360 meant they could do anything, leading to the original xbone debacle.

Unfortunately for PP, right as they fucked up majorly GW decided to get mostly competent again. The timing of thos two things being so close hurt PP a whole lot more than mk. 3 being bad did IMO.

>>54756560

I would buy tons of kits my bits box but the major constraint for me is time and motivation to assemble and paint.

>>54766031
Depends

Your example would be fine as they have the weapons, but some players may take offense to it

But i feel like i speak for 80% of people when the type of convo you are playing is fine.

And the people who would not allow it are people you should not play with because they will probably be "that guy"

>>54755870
>t. friedrich hayek

>>54761919
It's still not an unsustainably expensive hobby. It's not even a particularly expensive hobby

t.scuba diving enthusiast

>>54768197
Thanks for the compliment.

>>54768667
Agreed

t. Saltwater fish owner