Top 5 D20 games that are not D&D or Pathfinder

>>54737289
Well... dishonorable mention to Numenera. The game that fucked up just enough to be unplayable, but not enough that everyone flat out agrees it's bad.

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>>54737289
This hits about all of your tickboxes, excessive though they be.

>>54737289
>names his thread "Top 5..." like some kind of youtube video
Where are they OP?

Talislanta sounds like your kinda thing.

Considering that d20 is a D&D thing, and D&D 5e is the newest form of D&D, wouldn't ANY non-5e d20 game technically be a retroclone?

You've painted yourself into a corner, OP.

>>54737289
>RIFTS
It's both a very aged game in need of some cleanup and yet still lots of fun. Also the company is run by an insane egomaniac, but it does a bit of what you want.

- Spices up d20 mechanic
Well d20 is for combat, the skills are %

- Good skills
So many skills, and every class gets so many. You get a pile of dedicated class skills with bonuses, another pile of related skills you can choose among with lesser bonuses and finally a fistful of hobby skills you get but without bonuses

- Classes and levels, sorry
But you get more XP for coming up with plans and trying to apply skills than beating enemies

- No caster supremacy
Casters get some neat powers but the existence of high end technology means that non-wizards get plenty of fun, powerful toys too

- Rich in options
So many classes. So many races. So many spells and good lord are there lots of different equipment options.

- Rich in options for martials
Well do you want to be a mercenary? Partial cyborg? Psychic paladin with implanted cyber-armor? Towering full-conversion combat borg? Robot pilot? Normal guns or laser? Plasma grenades or micro-missiles? The list goes on and on.

- Armor as DR
Anything in the system will eventually burn through armor, so its just a pile of "super hp" called Megadamage to soak up railgun rounds, lasers and dragon breath.

- HP loss penalties
You get one pool of health for scratches and bruises and another that represents serious injury, complete with penalties and going into shock, blood loss and seriously dude someone needs to get you to a hospital

- Not grid based
Nope, no grids

- No retro
Well the system hasn't changed since the era those retros are based on, if that fits?

- Still supported
Yep, they still make more stuff for it, albeit slowly. New setting stuff is coming out though. Like a zombie apocalypse, or a WoD with more weird monsters, or maybe the one where you play a Guyver fighting Skynet?

>>54737332
>The game that fucked up just enough to be unplayable, but not enough that everyone flat out agrees it's bad.
I hear almost only good things, why do you say unplayable?

>>54737289
Monte Cook and Jobn Topneq Call of Cthuhu. You can make your own class and what skills are class skills for you. I wish I gotten to play it more than once but a player pick being able to cast magic and went mad in 3th setting. Getting everyone else killed.

>>54737289
You know what you want, you little faggot?
You want HackMaster 5th edition.

It takes the base of AD&D 2nd edition and improves on it in every way.

>Uses both d20 and d100 as resolution mechanic for different things, sometimes roll-over, sometimes roll-under. Very spicy

>Plenty of skills of varying usefulness, from Botany to Ancient History to Law and Literacy and Leatherworking

>It's got classes, but motherfucker, they're pretty good

>Casters blow chunks for the first few levels unless you're really clever with your randomly-selected spells

>Lots and lots of classes, and clerics and the clergy are an entire second set of sub-classes more or less

>Armor as DR and movement penalty

>Martials get a good fair amount of options, some from class features, some from buying talents and proficiencies

>HP loss gives penalties

>As does exhaustion

>Can be played without a grid, but is betterr with

>Not a retroclone, is its own thing

>Very much still supported

Fuck you, head to the pdf share thread and check it out, you have no reason not to.

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>>54737289
>wants a good RPG system that isn't D&D

OP you want Dungeon World. It's fast, with a strong core mechanic built to enhance the story, not restrict it like the shitty D&D mechanics. Failure in Dungeon World is actually interesting, and all of the abilities are codified into the core mechanic to make it fast, fun, and easy to use. The combat is also much, much better. A dragon doesn't need 300 hit points to be challenging like it does in D&D, it can do stuff that's actually terrifying, like rip a character's arm off. Also, armor is damage reduction so no more of this "less likely to hit, but still does full damage if it does hit" bullshit. The monster stats are incredibly light, character creation is extremely fast and fluid, with just as many options as D&D when you consider that most of D&D is trap options. There is no powergaming in Dungeon World, just a fast story-based game that still has the mechanics from D&D that you love (hit points, classes, etc) but with much stronger mechanics that lead to a more fulfilling roleplaying experience.

My last session of Dungeon World, my human fighter wrapped a vampire in a bear hug and wrestled him out a window into the castle moat. That is real roleplaying, not babby D&D shit where you have to make two different rolls and then have some autist look up how far you can move about while grappling. Dungeon World is about fun and good story, not rules and combat bullshit.

>>54738190
>Powered by the Apocalypse
>Not garbage
Pick one

>>54738209
Actually PbtA is a very good strong powerful game engine with lots of mechanics for enhancing the story, which is the important part if you're not a powergaming rollplaying munchkin twit. Also you clearly haven't played it so you don't get to have an opinion on it.

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>>54737289
A lot of those are what I would describe as qualities of Mutants and Masterminds 3e.

>Damage Effect adds penalties such as Dazed and Staggered which affect your ability to act in combat.
>Armor is a form of Toughness, which serves as your ability to take the hit in place of HP
>Point buy system so you can buy whatever effects you want and flavor them how you want. No classes
>It's still being supported, a simpler version of the Hero's Handbook is releasing later this year and several supplements have recently came out
>Having good Strength alone opens up options for Strength effects that let you do crazy Hulk-level stunts with your pure muscle.
>Your powers don't even have to be "powers" and can be flavored as a result of purely skill via Talent descriptor.
>Although a magic character can have a wide variety of effects, they play by the same rules as any other concept thanks to Power Level, so there's no stacking a bunch of bonuses.

>>54737289
Legend, M&M, FantasyCraft, SpyCraft, Star Wars Saga Edition

>>54738227
I've played Apoc, Dungeon World, Monsterhearts, etc. All garbage, narrativist trash.