MTG Legacy General

>>54730671
Is this even good?, seems like value as shit but....

Are you "supppsed" to Vendillion Clique before or after your opponent's draw step? After you see one more card but they also see one more card.

>>54730747
It's actually pretty stupid if you can get it set up. Most good opponents will try to play under it, but some decks can't (Miracles, Lands), and there's also stuff like Zuran Orb, Trinisphere, and Mox Diamond that make it a lot harder.

can death and taxes only lose to unfair decks?

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>>54733565

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Bump

>>54735480
how good is dedge? how do you even beat the hate cards?

>>54736164
Your entire sideboard is anti-hate cards

>>54736386
YEAH BUT U AINT GO NO MANA

>>54732337
D&T loses pretty hard to Burn, Nicfit variants, Punishing Jund, UR Delver and probably a few fair decks I'm forgetting. The deck is not the "fair deck hunter" that people make it out to be. Sure, it's great against pretty much any delver variant (exception being UR), sneak and show, or ANT, but the matches where its bad, it's an absolute pile of trash.

>>54736403
Not every dredge deck is manaless. Manaless dredge is totally cold to Leyline, but mana dredge can play anti hate.

>>54737079
>Dnt is good against ANT
It's 50/50 at best.

>>54737079
how does death and taxes lose to burn? its got some healing in the main but more importantly it has prelate and thalia

>>54737178
Fair enough, It's been quite a while since I last played D&T. The ANT matchup always felt pretty good unless they therapied away your Thailas. I was at ~65% match win rate over 16 matched vs. ANT, but maybe I was just falling on the high end of variance. TES was the storm deck I really didn't want to see while playing D&T, all the disruption of ANT and faster on average.

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>>54737265
Thalia and prelate eat burn spells and die? also prelate comes online turn 3, which is pretty much where you are drawing dead against burn, its generally where they PoP or Fireblast you out. Grim Lavamancer is also amazing against D&T and lots of burn lists are running him as 1-2 of maindeck specifically to make the D&T matchup even better. Also, what D&T deck runs lifegain that's going to do anything before turn 4 maindeck? If you mean Batterskull your generally going to be dead long before he does anything useful.

>>54737447
Meant the turn after prelate comes down they PoP/Fireblast for game. Derp.

>>54736164

>how do you even beat the hate cards?

Do what that one guy did and Next Level your opponent by siding in Helm of Obedience when his opponent brought in RiP.

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>>54737804
>mfw

>>54737804
That's spicy.

>>54737804
Helm also works with Leyline of the Void.

I'm actually considering running a Leyline in my Parfait sideboard so I can Helm combo through an Iona. Makes sure Abrupt Decay can't disrupt the combo, too.

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Did disney make a movie based on this card?

>>54730764
Using Clique is really situational, but I think it boils down to
>My opponent is playing combo and I want to see more cards, so I'm going to Clique them after they draw since I have no worry of a response from the combo deck
>My opponent is playing a control or midrange deck, so I clique them before they get to untap or on their upkeep so they have a harder time answering Clique.
Cliquing is infinitely complex though so i may be wrong

>>54730764
>>54740456 is right, but one consideration against certain combo/ramp decks is that they might have more than one card in hand you need to answer, so you should use Clique on their end step so you can hold up counter magic during their turn.

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>>54733565
>>54733584
Hell yeah son, pretty much the ideal and best setup right now for Parfait

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>>54733584
>>54733565

>tfw you'll never own legit Mox Diamonds

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>>54737804
>>54737911
>>54738803
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u8pmYFbtakM

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>>54743337
Lol the Miracle players response to the helm, even just being able to see his hands I can tell he was tilted as fuck.

>>54737162
Which dredge is better? I have all the pieces for manaless and just need to pick up the LEDs if I want to play normal. Manaless seems like more of a meme, but also more fun.

>>54745199
LED dredge is better by a lot. I don't even think manaless is more fun, there are no decisions to be made, you just pray your deck is stacked well. Not that dredge is super skill intensive to begin with, but you at least have more lines available to you with led dredge. Plus you have a chance to win through leyline/rip/cage

>>54745631
Sounds about right. I'll probably still try out manaless, but I'll switch to normal once I get around to picking up the LEDs.

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How would hammer be in a Stoneforge deck?

>>54746623
rather run Jitte or Batterskull or Sword of X and Y desu.

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This looks really good in Death&Taxes

>>54747326
no it doesnt

>>54747326
A very situational 3 drop that doesn't help your bad matchups and can't be found with recruiter? I don't think so

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Fairly new to legacy. I thought i would turn my junk modern deck into Nic-Fit.

It's slightly underwhelming but a lot of fun to play.

>>54749308

http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/14-06-17-junk-fit/

Here's my list. Tested to run smooth, but god damn I miss running 3 Tops. Sylvan feels so bad with deeds, but 2 of them is a comfy enough number.

>>54747326
Looks really trash in D&T

>>54747326
Maybe years ago.

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>White Notion Thief

Neat.

>>54747326
I like it. Would replace it with Mirran Crusader.
Amazing with Vial.

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>>54753688

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>>54750830
>>54753742
Sure Plowshares on 3/3 stick is bad.

>>54753792
>if its attacking you

>>54753665
I'm suprised this costs so much given wotc's love of hatebears

I can buy a legacy deck or a gun

which should i get

>>54753901

Probably because of its stats. I think if it was a like a 2/1, 1/2, 2/3, 1/3, 1/4, 3/1 or something around those lines it would be like cmc 3 or less.

>>54753905
Do you want to have fun or end it all?

>>54754404
im not suicidal

>>54754442
Then buy a legacy deck tool. Guns are only good for suicide

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>>54753905
Buy gun and rob SCG.

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>>54753905
Probably a Gun.
Legacy is a better ((investment)) tho.

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>>54754604
nice bait fag. Because target shooting, skeet/trap/sporting clays, and hunting aren't reasonable (and fun) uses for a firearm.

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>>54754858

>>54733584
Why o-ring over council's judgement

>>54756960

Could be a Show and Tell thing.

>>54756960
Enlightened Tutor can get o-ring

>>54757023
>>54757093
Ah. Cheers.

This deck looks cool, and pretty cheap. About $750 usd for the mainboard?

>>54753792
I forgot how good condemn was.

>>54753665
I'm interested in how the draw ability will fit into the rules. Currently, "draw N cards" is treated as "draw a card N times." My guess is that the ability applies only when a single effect instructs two or more draws.

>>54758098
Might prompt a rules change, might just be another "you know what we mean, it works because we say so" a la Bane of the Living. Hoping for the former.

>>54758662
What was the problem with Bane?

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we need to go old school

>>54761294
>Francisco
FUCK OFF BEANER RRRRRREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

>>54743337
I was wondering, why does he keep his hand open all the time after the opponent got to look at it once? Is there a ruling for that?
I guess he just assumes the other guy will remember what he saw anyway, but could he just take these cards and hide them again?

>>54761294
>no antonino

>>54760490
A card only tracks a value of X when it's on the stack and as it's entering the battlefield. So when you unmorph it, Bane's triggered ability *technically* shouldn't remember what X you paid for the morph cost. It literally only functions as intended because Gatherer and Matt Tabak say so.

>>54762962
This is only because unmorphing a creature is a special action, not actually an activated ability, right? So there's technically nothing "connecting" the unmorph cost with the triggered ability? Because there are plenty of activated abilities with x in the cost, but this is different

>>54763034
Yeah sorry I misremembered. That's correct.

Keep posting your decks, I'm fairly new to legacy so it's cool to see them

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>>54763264
my latest build

>>54763427
Have you tried the Metalwork Colossus build? Obviously it has a hard time with Bridges with Bridges but I think it played Trading Post to ditch them and swing. When I saw the deck being played Metalwork was almost always free, or as close to free as it can get with 3balls in the deck.

>>54763606
interesting that it's basically free after a while, but I don't like how it doesn't have a way to push damage through.

Still, certainly big enough to kill most blockers.

So Im finally getting around to rebuilding legacy. I had miracles because I loved countertop, I had the deck since it was just UW countertop. Would UB landstill fill the hole in my heart?

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>>54763264
An older post-top build

>>54740456
>>54740523
Thanks for the answers lads. Coming from casual edh this format has so many moving parts.

>>54749308
Strangleroot Geist doesn't fit in the deck at all. It's a cheap beater in a deck that isn't looking to beat cheap, it's looking to ramp and play Commander. If you need a decent two drop, go for another Scooze or Voice of Resurgence.

A single Pod doesn't make much sense. It's a terrible late-game top deck. If you top deck it late game and you still have a boardstate for it to be useful, then your opponent should already be dead. I'd suggest either upping the number to increase the number of times you have it early or else replace it with another Rhino or Meren.

Since you're running GSZ and Deathrite, have you considered throwing in a singleton Leovold? It would help fight cantrip-heavy decks...

>>54761626
Yes, generally most players will pick their hand up after an effect that reveals the hand is done resolving. Some players leave it down as a matter of convenience for the other player, happens a lot when playing casually/playtesting (no reason to make your opponent waste paper in those scenarios)

http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/revival-of-the-boros-legion/
this is more casual than traditional legacy, but I have no idea where else to post this. Any recommendations/cuts you'd make?

I don't like equipment, and I'm actually trying to avoid token spam. I'm primarily interested in getting my shadow attackers going faster.

I want to grab some City of Traitors and Ancient Tombs to play Omni-Tell

What other decks does it fit into?

>>54768630
moon stompy

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Is the guy who suggested Thopter Spy Network for Parfait still around?
We need that kind of madmen around here.

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>>54768630
delicious MUD

>>54768630
Eldrazi/Bigdrazi, Moon Stompy/Big Red/Sneak and Breach, basically any prison variant like MUD or Stax or what have you and Tezzerator are what I can think of off the top of my head

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>>54768643
>>54768945
>>54769341

>Have to buy Chalice
>Dislike prison strats
>but still want to be able to play other decks if it comes to that

Guess I might have to become what I hate

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>>54770386
it's good just to own them.

>>54764587
UB landstill feels a lot like a traditional draw go control deck in my opinion. I've been messing around with a UWr landstill deck recently; You get terminous and mentor, so it feels kinda like miracles.

>open 2 xmages
>make rated game
>give myself free wins
>get super high rating

other than my dignity what do i have to lose?

>>54771740
its not like xmage rating means anything though

>>54771900
except for IMITATION in casual matches, its mind games

What happend to doomsday after sdt was banned?

>>54770429

What are the Flagstones of Trokair for?

>>54772086
The people who played it before were all masochists so we still all play it. Ideas unbound was replaced with Act on Impulse. Tops were swapped for preordains, and most people added moreally lotus petals for better empty the warrens. I'm on something like this:

3x Doomsday
4x Burning Wish
1x Act on Impulse
1x Laboratory Maniac

4x Ponder
4x Brainstorm
4x Gitaxian Probe
3x Preordain
1x Edge of Autumn

4x Cabal Therapy
3x Duress

4x Dark Ritual
4x Lotus Petal
4x Lion's Eye Diamond

4x Polluted Delta
1x Scalding Tarn
2x Bloodstained Mire
2x Misty Rainforest
2x Underground Sea
1x Volcanic Island
1x Badlands
1x Tropical Island
1x Swamp
1x Island

Sideboard
1x Doomsday
1x Tendrils of Agony
1x Infernal Contract
1x Empty the Warrens
1x By Force
1x Massacre
1x Duress
1x Flusterstorm
2x Surgical Extraction
2x Abrupt Decay
2x Xandtid Swarm
1x Echoing Truth

Thinking about cutting the green splash though.

>>54773663
If someone was thinking about getting into the deck now, what's the "stock" list you'd recommend they test out?

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>>54761294
10/10 comfy aesthetics

>>54733565
7/10 aesthetics. needs sixth edition wraths

what are some other aesthetic decks?

>>54774228
I'd play a straight grixis version with 3 petals and an extra preordain compared to what I'm on. Sideboard would play more echoing truth instead of decay.

what's the best way to make proxies if I don't feel like printing a bunch of card images

I'm thinking about buying a light color sharpie and writing on the back of bulk cards

>>54775030
You could always buy chinaman, a good bit of the stuff is passable if it's aged and double sleeved, some stuff is utter shit though.

>>54775030
The fast and shitty way is to put a bunch of cards in sleeves backwards, then write cards names on slips of paper and slide them in. Printing out card images is much better, though, because even if they look like shit they're still way easier to identify.

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>>54774786
Rate

>>54774786
>needs sixth edition wraths
White borders are so gross, though

So I recently finished buiding my decks (ub animator, ant, dnt) and now I traded some chaff to playset of City of Traitors. I also have a set of wastelands. So what should I build next?

>>54776700
A noose

>>54776700
Well you could build SnT with those reanimator fatties and cities, plus some other cards. Or you could sell those cities and build something cool.

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>>54776432
7/10 oozing with oldschool thick necromantic/demonic flavor. love the beta rits and animates they help a lot. -3 because modern angels all have deviant art photoshop-tier art, and modern white cards have objectively the ugliest border design. +2 if you switch to masterpiece moxes.

>>54776452
>White borders are so gross, though

True for every color other than white. But you can always paint the borders, or use a playset of portal wraths which are also aesthetic.

>>54774947
Thanks, m8. I think I'll throw that together on Xmage tonight and see where it takes me.

>>54776805

I dont want to take those decks apart. I need them for local players who dont have their legacy decks yet. What is the cool.dec to build if I sold the cities?

>>54777335
Food Chain. That's a cool deck.

>>54774786
When TG makes better E-foils than mtgo.

If Balance was unbanned what deck would it create or would it be played in a already ready deck like parfait?

Btw rebuilding my old parfait deck. Always loved the deck

>>54776432
Those top row one drops really tickles my pickle desu

>>54778008
Balance would have been auto-include in Parfait 100%. Shit is absolutely bonkers for mere two mana.

>>54778008
>>54780347
Balance could probably straight up replace Wrath in Parfait and the deck would instantly be better. A deck that builds around it even more might be possible, though.

>>54778008
Balance should never be unbanned desu senpai

What is the best deck right now and why does it have to be stupid fucking grixis delver?

>>54786106

Because daddy miracles passed away, and his son is a fuck-up that won't ever be the policeman his father was.

How difficult is playing sneak and show type decks? I wanted to play mono-blue and I don't really have a problem with free wins falling into my lap, but I don't want to have my games feel like my decision making didn't matter

>fatal push snapcaster fatalpush

GARFIELD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!111

>>54786669
Show and tell decks are for retards, it's the simplest a+b combo in the game. I've known actual developmentally challenged people that can do well with sneak and show

>>54786106
If you want to beat delver play literally any of the 3-4 color "control" decks that just go slightly bigger than delver. Of course you will be giving up points in a ton of other matchups but you will be favored against delver. Or just play lands and shit on them

>>54786669

It's not called Sneak and Snooze for nothing anon.

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>>54788234
>>54788796
well damn

I just want to play something blue that won't completely break the bank and has a lot of play to it

>>54789422
You could try landstill if you like control strategies, UB or UR standstill use very few duals. UR in particular is really fun in my opinion.

>>54789422

Look don't let us stop you from playing Sneak and Show if you want because it is a good deck, just not a very complicated one. Standstill decks are ok if you want to play control. RUG Delver aka "Canadian Threshold" is good as your opponent sits with a hand full of Fatal Pushes that can't hit your Nimble Mongoose. Food Chain and Aluren are pretty neat decks as well for me.

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So I told Wizards of the Coast to bring back phasing and they did it! The absolute madman!

>tfw beat tax racks as d&t and it only took 1 hour

>>54791183

Yeah that was me lol. Sitting with 4 wraths in hand. I should have just played out the lands.

>>54791222
yeah once i got prelate on 1 and 4 i dont know what you can do

>>54789422
storm is a more complex combo deck with tons of lines. The money cards are like, 3 duals (you could probably even get away with 2 to start) and leds, both of which go into a ton of other decks. The best thing is there is always room to improve with the deck, every time I pilot it I feel as though I learn something new. You definitely need to be critical of your play/mistakes and be willing to try new styles or lines that may seem outside the box.

>>54791287

I would have to draw into Timely Reinforcements to buy some time and get an O-Ring, that's about it. Game 2 I was trying to find the Charbelcher to win because I had a few less copies of Helm/RiP in the deck. Either way it was a good game. I subscribe to the notion that if i'm not winning then i'm learning and if i'm not learning then I should stop.

>>54791479
ah so thats what that mountain was for

good game

>>54730764
No matter when you do it, you're supposed to try to goad your opponent into revealing their hand, then you ask them, "So does Clique resolve?".