Warhammer 40K General (40KG)

First for how to take advantage of Night Lords besides raptors

first for da orkz

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orks is best

>>54724334
Things with Butcher Cannons.

>>54724319
I never knew wenches were so wild for knights

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>hellblaster kit specifically comes with left handed robot arms and bare heads with huge plasma burns to represent wounds from overheating plasma guns

>>54724482
Really? Thats actually pretty nice

>>54724336

>Second reply
>I2

>>54724334

Bully marines since hordes are morale immune

Hi guys, I used to play back in 2nd ed and I'm looking at getting back into the game.

I've been reading up on the lore and army lists and mechanics and stuff, and of all the questions I have one is at the front of my mind

What the hell happened to the Space Wolves

when I played they were pretty cool; Marines who didn't care about the Codex Astartes, had their own thing going on and had some neat organizational quirks (like Long Fangs being the Devastator equivalents because they were old and wise enough to not want to rush into melee like the newbies, or Iron Priests and Wolf Priests being a thing), now they're literally riding around on wolves and all their gear is named Frostwolf X something. What happened?

I was excited about the grand master dreadknight until I realized it would have 12 wounds and can be easily sniped, regardless of 4++ save.

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What are some good Warhammer pants?

What was the first army you wanted to play? What do you play now?

>>54724550
Magnus had his revenge.

Drown in yiffing and die.

How can I suck less as Black Templars?

>>54724556

Unless you use a strategem and a psyker power
In which case it is 2+ 2++, fun

>>54724577
Bring that bullshit Land Rider with.

>>54724577
Roll better.

>>54724585

wait I figured sanctuary would be ++1 but there's a strategem that does it too?

>>54724319
>Renegades are useless, Please buff Edition
Advance and charge is fucking awesome, what are you on about?

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>>54724608

>>54724482
That's so fucking cool holy shit.

GW releases in the last couple years are really hit and miss but the hits fucking HIT and the misses really fucking miss (looking at Kastelans).

>>54724577
Apparently some guy playing BT got in top 8 or something in the BAO, running a totally fluffy list, no bullshit WAAC cheese or anything

Repeating a question that never got answered last thread.

If I take Raven Guard chapter tactics can I use Strike From the Shadows multiple times in the deployment phase?

It seems to be made with the intent to have multiple units strike forward turn one but from what I've been told you can only use one CP per phase. Wouldent that mean I couldent use it on multiple units?

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>>54724642

>2CP and a psychic power to make a purgation squad shoot 16 S8 AP-2 D3 damage ignores cover/LOS shots

>>54724659

no, only SMs in top 10 were dangels
azrael+parking lot+fliers

>>54724680
Must've been top 16 then.

FLG guys were talking about it.

>>54724670
> from what I've been told you can only use one CP per phase
Wrong. You can only use the same stratagem one per phase.

Strike From The Shadows doesn't take place during a phase so it ignores that restriction.

>>54724319
Can shitty OP's stop forgetting to link in the old general and link the previous thread in the new one? Holy shit you faggots have been so bad at this for weeks.

>>54724659
What was the list?

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>>54724642

Jesus christ that psybolt ammo strategem

one 10 man rapid firing strike squad will do 8.89 wounds to MEQ with it.

and JESUS FUCK IT works on vehicles too

a rapid firing land raider crusader will do 10.67 wounds to MEQs with just its hurricane bolters alone

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Void Lances or Dark Scythes on a Voidraven Bomber? I'm leaning towards the lances.

Hey guys I've been writing random lists on Battlescribe for Necromunda and am wondering the average game size (point wise)? Also how many models should I have for each point amounts?

>>54724710
I don't know, they don't post them for free.

>>54724482
That's awesome

>>54724732
Wait what?

How are dreadnoughts in their "default" versions, the Asscan + CCW or the Twin Lascannon + Missile Launcher?

I don't see people using them anymore and that makes me sad. What so bad about them?

>>54724748
Apparently you need to buy an app to download the lists used at the major tournaments.

>>54724750

twin lascannon + missile launcher is fine

asscan + CCW is basically just one upped by the redemptor entirely. That being said its a fairly cheap carnifex.

>>54724732
Damn. Oh well, maybe this will mean GW might give the Templars some attention or at least bring back their transfer sheet!

Yeah...it is never going to happen.

Do you guys think GW is going to put their thumb on the scale next week to make this campaign not seem like a total blowout to keep players interested? Or will they allow a clean Imperium sweep?

>>54724642
>dat psybolts
Holy fucking shit. A 10 man strike squad is putting out 40 fucking HB shots when in rapid fire range. That's fucking rape.

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With the inclusion of dark mechanicus characters and keywords in the FW chaos index, what are the odds of chaos getting access to some of the mechanicum toys in fires of cyraxus

assuming it ever comes out

>>54724766
Next week the Chaos Codex comes out, we may see a turnaround.

Consider Chaos has been doing a fairly okay job at competing up til now even without it, and the playtesters believe the CSM codex is stronger than the loyalist one.

>>54724766
Well there is a codex for the CSM coming out, and I believe all those purchases count.

>>54724711
>20 shoots
>12.6 hits
>8.33 wounds
>4.17 unsaved

2CP for two extra dead marines doesn't sound all that good.

Landrider crusader would be pretty brutal, however.

>54723263
>I read yesterday that overwatch doesn't take the weapons range into account anymore.
>Can someone tell me where that's located cause I completely forgot.
Wait excuse me? Is that legit?

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So I need opinions on Terminators this ed? I have like 40 Termies + Captain + Ven Dreads etc. Should I attempt running a 1st Company, or balance out shit?

What is a good Terminator count for 1500, 2000, and 2500 points respectively?

Also, mfw OP Alpha Legion infiltration has stuck

>>54724779

I honestly think to hamfist more chaos into things they'll do something like that. The book will probably BS Chaos into the mix and let dark admech become more of a thing. What else will they fill the book with?

>>54724717
Bumping for interest

holy shit, Chaos is actually slightly winning in one of the Konor warzones. The one for UK and rest of the world. Pretty amazing, really.

>>54724809
No. Overwatch checks weapon range. Flamers don't Overwatch targets charging from over 8" away.

>>54724773

Right out of deep strike too

>>54724806

normal rapid firing 10 man squad against MEQ: 4.44

psybolt ammo rapid firing 10 man squad against MEQ: 8.89

You literally double your damage output.

>>54724830
Which, after save, amounts to two or three extra dead MEQs. For 2CP.

I mean, it's really strong as it turns all of your bolters into heavy bolters, but i wouldn't spend it on Marines shooting other Marines.

>>54724811
Ran 10 with a lord and sorc to buff them just today, have to say they still really need support to work. They are even easier to out maneuver as well now with the 5" move

>>54724811
So terminators are better than last edition with a second attack, less weapons completely ignoring their saves, a second attack AND twice as many shots really boosts them.
In regards to how many? It really depends on the list. I know that's a cop out answer but a list that already has things that do their job then less and a list that lacks them more.
Tl;dr Terminators are good, use sparingly because their expensive. Use 10-20 if you have a balanced list and test amounts in the lists you bring until something works.

>>54724568
tyranids and tyranids, chaos marines and GSC

>>54724811
not that good.

The extra wound is nice, but they aren't particularly good at fighting over regular marines and the ap systems mean that you are no longer an impenetrable wall of 2+ saves

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>>54724851

That *is* after saves, jesus christ.

Normal

40 shots

26.67 hits

13.33 wounds

4.44 dead marines

psybolt ammo

40 shots

26.67 hits

17.78 wounds

8.89 dead marines

>>54724828
So flamers still suck, got it.

>>54724851
No you idiot, he already factored the save in.

~4 dead marines without the stratagem, ~9 dead ones with it.

>>54724851
Anon, his nunbers ARE after saves. Before saves it's 13.333... Wounds for reg and 17.777... With the stratagem

>>54724828
Isn't that silly. You only shoot at the guys running towards you before and not a moment after.

>>54724851

considering you spend 1 CP for 1 reroll which hopefully will kill 1 marine, you're getting pretty good efficiency here.

>>54724577
First off, what's giving you guff?

>>54724876
>>54724883
>>54724886

So GKs squad are Rapid Fire 2, huh.

That's a squad with moral, so it's worth it, i guess.

>>54724893
You use that 1CP to kill a vehicle or save a warlord.

>>54724902
>So GKs squad are Rapid Fire 2, huh.
Yeah, it's a stormbolter.

>>54724889
its a deliberate concession for gameplay
to encourage more agressive long charging tactics.

>>54724889
Depends what you imagine the random charge roll to represent. It's really a matter of how well they got the jump on the enemy. It's not like a bad roll means they're standing in place, it means they didn't charge fast enough to avoid another volley of fire. We abstractify the game into turns but everything is supposed to be happening simultaneously. A high charge roll means their opponent didn't react quick enough.

>>54724867
Exact same thing for me. neat

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>>54724867
>>54724919
My brothers!

>>54724568
Orks, which I did back in 2nd and 3rd ed

Now Marines and Dark Eldar

>>54724902

>You use that 1CP to kill a vehicle

Rerolling a D6 damage roll is about equal to adding +1 to the roll on average (4 instead of 3.5), good for when you roll really shit but its not usually going to make or break your average.

Giving your deep striking unit twice its ranged damage potential for a mere 2 CP is one of the best strategems in the game, easily.

>save a warlord

different phase, do that too. Don't run a vanguard detachment like a doofus and reap the rewards of your command points.

Does studying actual war strategy help with applying strategy to 40k?
I used to study historical wars, like Carthage vs Rome, Greece vs Troy, battlefields during the World Wars, but I'm kind of rusty, is it worth brushing up on that kind of strategy to outmanoeuvre opponents or not?
My game store doesn't own or use a whole lot of terrain so and cover seems pitiful this edition so I'm not too sure.

>>54724902

You're going to be impressed if you kill 4 marines with orbital bombardment for 3 CP, doing that for 2 CP without relying on a 4+ roll is huge.

>>54724949
no, 40k isn't a particularly strategic game

at most, it's about tactical use of cover, positioning and choice of targets

>>54724949
No because 40k doesn't give you anything for flanking or encirclement which are big parts of actual tactics

>>54724714
Definitely

>>54724949
40k is a tactics game and a highly abstract one. War strategy doesn't really figure into it.

The main skill you need to be good at 40k is math, after that it's judgement.

>>54724949

Wrong scale, historical wars are almost entirely about strategic warfare

40k is sort of tactical, mostly numbers and distances.

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I've got enough warhammer and am looking to play a game that actually involves tactics (beyond list building). I have played LOTR and it's a step in the right direction but still not enough. Any suggestions?

>>54724943
>Rerolling a D6 damage roll is about equal to adding +1 to the roll on average (4 instead of 3.5), good for when you roll really shit but its not usually going to make or break your average.

Average is irrelevant given small sample size.

>Giving your deep striking unit twice its ranged damage potential for a mere 2 CP is one of the best strategems in the game, easily.

As is rerolling your charge. Mind, i don't say that it's a bad strategem, by any means, but your comparisons to CP reroll are shitty.

>different phase, do that too.

You don't have infinite amount of CP. That applies to Psybolt Ammo as well, as you'll have to choose between number of squads to apply it And using it to kill MEQs still sounds really inefficient.

>>54724962
>orbital bombardment

Is trash.

>>54724998
Malifaux and Infinity aren't bad.

Batman Miniatures Game is surprisingly decent too, if you don't mind miniatures that cost more than their weight in gold.

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>>54724319
Sooner or later

>>54724319
Can you use the alpha legion 9 inch deploy stratagem multiple times?

>>54724998

Infinity.

Your list matters in that you need to hit a few bases like guys who can score objectives but winning the game is very much dependent on player skill and awareness.

>>54725017
>Malifaux
Agreed there.

X-wing used to be decent but it has pretty much devolved into this now.

>>54725017
>Malifaux
Is that the game that uses cards instead of dice and doesn't revolve around killing? I always thought that was the weird black sheep of wargaming.

>>54724968
>>54724981
Damn, I figured there'd be some strategy.
>>54724985
I noticed that, I can't draw my opponent into disadvantageous positions if he has no reason to chase after a unit, and camping an objective just makes me a target.
Even with deep strike it's almost impossible to set an actual trap.
>>54724990
So how does one get better at 40k strategy?

>>54724998
Dawn of War 1: Soulstorm and Dawn of War 2: Retribution

>>54724998
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crossfire_(miniatures_game)

Don't listen to the faggots shilling Infinity.

>>54725033
>>54725034
Personally I prefer Malifaux to Infinity, because I'm not a huge fan of gotchas, but Infinity is still a lot of fun

>>54725038
Yep, but the card mechanic works surprisingly well.
You still kill enemies too, it just doesn't always actually help you win the game (it does tend to though, since at the very least you're denying your opponent options)

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What horus heresy book would I want to look in for details on Word Bearers legion organization and Iconography? I'm looking for inspiration for my 40k force.

>>54724642
>Strategem that makes Stormbolters hit like Heavy Bolters

Holy Emperor ... and the local Ork player already has a sore butthole from the amount of times my GK massacred his 150 boyz list

>>54725038
>Is that the game that uses cards instead of dice and doesn't revolve around killing?
Yup.

I'm considering throwing a heat lance on my arena champion reaver, and a blaster on a random dude in the squad.
If I did this and said "nah, he's just got a splinter rifle" for one would you be annoyed at all?

>>54724642
Eh in 5E they basically got that for free on every single unit. At least CP means they can't abuse it for the entire game nor do things like spam heavy bolter Razerbacks which all get the bonus.

>>54725042
>I noticed that, I can't draw my opponent into disadvantageous positions if he has no reason to chase after a unit, and camping an objective just makes me a target.
>Even with deep strike it's almost impossible to set an actual trap.

You need hidden information to set up traps, and hidden information isn't a thing in the rules (well, IIRC, it can be, depending on information, but 40kids sperg out if you suggest playing the game like that).

>>54725057
First Heretic

>>54725033
>>54725017
Both of those are low model count so I might give both a go. Thanks for the advice guys.

>>54724568
Dark eldars

Dark eldars, space wolves, adeptus mechanics, orkz, Imperial guard, Imperial Knights and I have some Tyranids.

>>54725042
>So how does one get better at 40k strategy?
Maths, and an understanding of piece-trading helps

>>54724949
Some of the really basic stuff is very applicable. The first thing that newbies need to learn is the refused flank.

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What exactly is in the new CSM codex that makes them better than loyalist marines?

>>54724537
Not when you turn their commissar into a chaos spawn

Anyone have a link to Black Legion epub by ADB?

>>54725062
Not really
Maybe at a tournament

>>54725088
Stacking leadership penalties up to -8. Night Lords are so scary that loyalists literally piss their pants. The only thing in the universe brave enough to withstand Night Lords are Orks and conscripts next to a commissar.

Alright DG/TS players, what do you expect from your codex? What do you hope for?

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>>54725088
Blackjack and hookers

>>54725088
Well to start, the Chaos. I also like the Marines part but I'm not sure that part is actually better than what the loyalists get.

>>54725104
Basically the index, but with some points reductions or improvements at no additional points cost. One or two extra units, a page of stratagems, and 6 psychic powers (3 of which were in the index already).

>>54724824
this weeks mission is very chaos sided
not to cop out but having played as both defender and attacker it is laughably easy to defend

>>54725099
>black library
no one cares

>>54725104
A ton of Psychic Powers for my Thousand Sons. That's all I want.

>>54725046
Sounds kinda neat, I assume it's a scale similar to Bolt Action?

I've never seen anyone playing it though, so I imagine it might be hard finding opponents.

>>54725103
>his army doesn't just ignore morale entirely
lmao

I'm only building a SC box for my first army, not even near a tourney level. Cheers.

>>54725088
New Plague Marine options are neato.

>>54724897
Everything. Psykers, vehicles, anything tougher than a space marine.

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the heck works for CSM?

>>54724699
Don't be a waacfag

>>54725122
>it is laughably easy to defend
Yeah. The attacker pretty much needs to table the defender and the defender needs to have very few 2+ or 3+ saves and the attacker needs to have a lot.

>>54725131
You can teach a new player how to play in 20 minutes.

The hard part is, you REALLY REALLY need terrain, like the whole board needs to be covered, and of course you need to find proper miniatures.

>>54725065
Okay, so imagine I set up a unit of Chaos Terminators with Combi-Plasma in a Teleportarum Chamber, put a Daemon Prince with wings on the board with a spell like Prescience, then fly him out around the outside of his units while it casts Delightful Agonies on itself, potentially drawing their fire because, "Hey, that monster character isn't behind lesser units, we can target it." then once my Daemon Prince is in position, deep strike terminators around it, cast prescience on them, firing combi-plasma's with rerolled 1's on 2+ to hit?
Is that kind of tactics and strategy good in 40k?
Or similarly, a squad of Raptors with Plasma Guns on three of them? Or MeltaGuns for anti-vehicle?
Actually, Terminators could mix it up, one has a heavy weapon, two have combi-plasma, champion has combi-melta?
>>54725080
What's piece-trading? Like sacrificing lesser units for a bigger win?
>>54725082
What's the refused flank?

>>54725069
I'm looking specifically for the HH army books, though I'll check out First Heretic again too.

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>>54725104
I just want some fun psychic powers, maybe some interesting relics, and not much else for me to be pretty satisfied. Maybe a slightly more reliable or cheaper icon of flame, though I doubt they'll change that.

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>>54725122
Gotta give them some kind of handicap to make up for the Imperium's new model purchase/population advantage.

>>54725106
Actually, forget the codex and the blackjack.

>>54725145
That's not WAACfagging at all, the core rules EXPLICITLY spell this out that stratagems that don't take place during a phase have no restrictions. Don't you faggots read the rules before whining and asking dumb questions? It's not hard there's only like a dozen relevant pages.

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>>54725133

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>>54725015

>Average is irrelevant given small sample size.
???

Its situationally useful, I think we all agree its good when its good.

> by any means, but your comparisons to CP reroll are shitty.

Would you like to compare it to the slaanesh strategem that allows them to shoot twice? Because it achieves the same thing against MEQs.

>You don't have infinite amount of CP. That applies to Psybolt Ammo as well, as you'll have to choose between number of squads to apply it

I've got 6 usually and you can only use a strategem once per phase, thus its not really hard to use it turn 1 when your shooting units are at their maximum effectiveness and bank the rest for psychic phase or having a 2++

>And using it to kill MEQs still sounds really inefficient.

Well lets consider the numbers

going from 4.45 to 8.89 MEQ wounds is 57.85 extra points killed for 2 CP.

For comparison 10 rapid firing plasma guns would do 9.25 wounds.

10 fucking plasma guns would do .369 extra wounds to marines. I have no idea what exactly you're imagining will perform better.

Its not super great against GEQ, since storm bolters will kill 11.85 normally and with psybolt will kill 14.81, or an extra 11.84 points killed for 2 CP

10 rapid firing plasma guns will do 11.11 wounds.

Against terminators normal storm bolters will do 2.22 wounds, with psybolt they'll do 5.9 wounds, or an extra 2 dead terminators (even with SS), or an extra 90-ish points killed for 2 CP

10 rapid firing plasma guns will do 7.4 wounds to normal termies and 3.7 wounds to SS termies.

So really if there was a strategem that equipped an entire squad with plasma guns for one turn it would be vaguely in the same ballpark as psybolts.

>>54725042
In no particular order.

1) Target focus - don't spread your killing power around, kill what needs to die as quickly as possible.
2) Target selection - always know what the next enemy unit that needs to die is.
3) Unit matchups - the correct matchup to a powerful melee unit is not your powerful melee unit (in most cases), it's shooting or tapits.
4) Play the mission rather than chasing kills. Kills are important but the mission specifics will change your target priority.
5) Positioning - to maximise your ability to focus on key enemy units whilst minimising his ability to focus on yours.

>>54725151
The part you're missing out on is that nothing in the game besides Titanic stuff can survive one turn of shooting and even that stuff is questionable.

Your DP is going to get shot with two lascannons and die. Maybe not, but if you are building strategies you need to plan for that and then play like it is guaranteed to happen. You'll know when it's time to take a risk, but flying a DP out into the open early in the game is never going to be the right decision unless your opponent is fucking up really really badly somehow that I can't even really imagine.

>>54725103
the amount of unit investment required to get the enemy to -8 leadership is so high, the unit should be dead already before the morale check even comes into play

the armies that run units with high enough sizes for this to come into play already have ways of circumventing regular morale rules

>>54725156
Forgot to note, also kinda hope that the relics have a loose description so I wouldn't have to change how my exalted looks much to say I have it equipped and match the description.

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MEMES FOR THE MEME GOD

>>54725176
>1) Target focus - don't spread your killing power around, kill what needs to die as quickly as possible.
This is why people keep getting their asses kicked by Ynnari.

>>54725104
New wargear options for LoC and possibly being able to swap out the Plague spitters on the drone with other guns. Not that they need to be replaced though.

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>>54725183
You keep saying that every single thread but it's just because you are fucking furious and not because it's true.

>>54725183

Yeah the problem with the -8 leadership is that you're going to end up causing the last dude in the squad to run away on a -17 or something.

Should I buy regular CSM or wait for intercessors to come out and kitbash them for true scale CSM?

>>54725088

tactics are mostly shit. The only ones worth it are alpha legion and renegades. There's a lot of wanking over the Night Lords tactic but it will barely ever come into play.

Strategems are good. I would say our strategems provide more raw power than loyalists. Stuff like <shoot again> and <add +1 to wound rolls> are fantastic.

Our psychic powers are better than loyalists. Warp Time and Death Hex are the absolute shit.

We have more options for cheap meat shields within our own detachments than loyalists.

Other than that, nothing. Loyalists have superior aura buffs, superior shooting, superior utility, superior character sniping. And those are the important things this edition.

>>54725151
>What's piece-trading? Like sacrificing lesser units for a bigger win?

Pretty much. Either throwing your units away for some larger gain (not necessarily in points), or putting your units in the line of fire to try to move your opponent's units out of position

Like, I might sacrifice a unit of Howling Banshees to tie up or kill the enemy Devastators. They're not going to make their points back on their own, but they'll mean that my tanks are and multiwound jetbikes are safe.

>Refused Flank
Setting up or moving your models to one side of the board, so they can focus on a smaller fraction of the enemy force at a time, while the limiting the amount of enemy units that can be effective.

>>54725194
Ynnari mechanics are an exception to the rule. Also crazy strong.

>>54725057
Read the Word Bearers series.

>>54725145
Playing by the rules makes you a waacfag?

Well I guess the casual-at-all-costs mafia have spoken.

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>>54725208
Yeah I really like the new Slaanesh cult too.

>>54725153
Oh you meant the FW books ? Horus Heresy book two, Massacre.

>>54725104
I hope that exalted sorcerers get the option to take force swords.

There's two in the plastic kit but I can apparently only equip the sword.

>>54725216
>CAAC
lol cocks

>>54724811
Termies dontbhave a 2+ invulnerable anymore, just a 2+ armor, which can be negated by any weapon with enough stronkth now. So they're basically shit compared to previously.

>>54725238
Are

Are you fucking retarded

>>54725247
Looks like it to me

>>54725151
>What's the refused flank?
Enemy deploys their army spread out across the deployment zone (why does everyone do this a when they start?). You setup concentrated at one side. This maximizes your ability to focus fire at him whilst minimising his ability to focus fire at you.

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>>54725203
Make larger dudes using Cataphractii parts. They'll be the same size as the Plague Marines from Dark Imperium.

>>54725251
I think he was just meme-ing

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>>54725238
Holy shit, someone this stupid exists.

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>>54725238
>Termies dontbhave a 2+ invulnerable anymore
I have bad news anon...

>>54725231
>I hope that exalted sorcerers get the option to take force swords.

That's a already thing from the last FAQ, anon.

>>54725176
Thanks, I think positioning is what I'm having the most trouble with, should I learn his ranges and force him to chase me after killing his biggest guns?
>>54725178
That's what delightful agonies is for, every damage dealt on that lascannon, I roll a d6 and ignore a number of wounds equal to the number of 5+ on my dice.
The point is to fly my Daemon Prince in a wide arc around his troops, staying outside of his range so he's forced to chase it if he wants to shoot.
Should I invest in some bikes to cover the Daemon Prince or something?
>>54725208
I think I get it, thanks.
>>54725261
Oh, I still do that, guess I'm still kind of subconsciously worried about Apocalyptic Blast templates for some reason.

>>54725283
>should I learn his ranges and force him to chase me after killing his biggest guns?
Yes, also learn which units suffer most from moving. A land raider a still 3+ after moving, an IG vehicle drops to 5+. If it has a small number of shots then it's even more incentivised to not move.

Offering your opponent bad choices is great. Does he move the tank and make its shooting worse or does he remain stationary to fire effectively at an irrelevant unit. The trick there being that you have to offer him the irrelevant unit or of course he'll move.

>>54725216
Strategems are clearly meant to be used once a phase...so once each player turn in the relevant part of that turn.

You're using the "it doesn't say I can't" philosophy to excuse something that's clearly not intended to increase potency.

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>>54725283
FNP is not reliable. I understand what you think is going to happen and I'm advising you to make strategies around disrupting what your opponent wants to happen to you, rather than what you want to accomplish.

That is, if you want to win games.

Perfect example: In my local meta, there's a necron player who eats players alive all the time. He plays simply. He brings two packs of wraiths that have 3++ and 3 wounds and he uses them to run straight at anything on the board that you want to do work for you and to disrupt them.

I lost game after game to him, over and over until it occurred to me that trying to defend my stuff from his stuff was playing into his hands. Either way, he's disrupting me, he's making me play his game.

The first game I completely ignored the wraiths, deployed in response to where he put down his valuable stuff and ran straight at his most valuable units and fucked them up, I won. The next game I won. Eventually he'll change his tactics and I'll start losing again but the point remains: Don't make a strategy that says "I think I should do this and when they do that I'll do this in response". Your strategy should be "I'm going to take powerful and effective units (DP is one of them of course) and I'm going to wait until I see what he deploys, where he deploys it and what the mission is and then I'm going to fuck my opponent's plan up as soon as I can tell what his plan is going to be.

Hope that helps!

>>54725331
The previews of the loyalist version of that alpha legion rule SPECIFICALLY SAY that you can use it a bunch of times before the game starts. Sorry buddy but you are outright incorrect in this instance and also being pretty fucking stupid about it right now.

Calm down and save your indignation for real instances of wording twisting, this isn't one of them.

>>54725331
Stratagems can be used at any time, as many times as you want. This is the default state.

There is a specific limitation - in matched play a specific stratagem can be used once per phase.

We are following the basic rules for stratagems and not violating the restriction by using a stratagem more than once prior to game start.

>>54725331
No you fucking retard the rules straight up say "if it's not a phase, ie stratagems used during deployment, you can use it as many times as you want"

>>54724568
Sisters, then I found out about their lack of models.

I play orks now but in casual games with bros I occasionally proxy my orks as sisters

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>>54725104
For Thousand Sons my wish list would include some combination of the following: more psychic powers, wargear options for Exalted Sorcerers and Scarabs, access to more heavy weapons (ideally something to help make up for how little we have to deal with T6+ outside of Smite spam), the return of spell familiars, stratagems that emphasize dominating the psychic phase, Ahriman to get his mind dakka spam back so he's more than just a pricier Exalted, Discs of Tzeentch to not suck so much, Magnus to regain a few of his lost toys from 7th so he's less Khornate, the Icon of Flame to not be a waste of 10 points, a cheaper HQ option (like an Aspiring Sorcerer or something), for GW to drag over a few of the AoS Tzaangor units, and a reasonable points reduction for Rubrics and especially Scarabs.

And if I'm being particularly demanding, a psychic dreadnought would be awesome.

Is it normal to never win games?

>>54725368
Yes, if you are putting yourself into a losing situation over and over again without making any changes so that you can win.

>>54724577
> Black Templars get army-wide Reroll Charges
> Not taking advantage of this by stocking your army up on LEVIATHAN DREADNOUGHTS, CONTEMPTORS, AND ASSAULT TERMINATORS
What the fuck are you, a HEATHEN? GET STUCK IN MELEE, ALWAYS CHARGE EVERY TURN.

>>54725353
No, no. When the CaaC mafia decide that a rule doesn't work the way it should in their head then it's automatically WaaC or rules lawyering.

Your morale superiors have spoken.

>>54725368
If you have no idea what you're doing and play against people that do know what they're doing, yes.

>>54725379
>morale superiors
So, a Commissar? :^)

>>54725206
Eh, World Eaters aint bad either.

>>54725382
Soooo give up?

>>54725392
That guy is clearly a bit of a retard, most of the armies in 8th are better than they've ever been. The new codex is great.

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>>54725378
>TFW the local Black Templar player is always complaining about how their chapter rules never benefit shooting and them not being allowed to take Librarians

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>>54725378
New to the game. Where are the rules for re-rolls charges?

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>>54725329
So give your opponent two bad options on their turn, minimise how many good choices they have, got it.
>>54725346
That does help, a lot.
I used to be good at strategy games like the Age of Empires series but looking back I noticed my strategies aren't actually strategies, my entire game plan was to win through having a shitload more firepower and build walls and watch towers around myself while I built my armies. Now I've noticed my strategy in 40k isn't strategy either, it's "deploy strong units, fire them at enemies", I'm supposed to be Emperor's Children I should have more tact than that.
Plus just started reading Horus Heresy books, noticed what Emperor's Children stated about learning from mistakes and perfecting themselves in future, and decided to look back at all my losses.
Most of my wins have been pure luck, or just bringing bigger guns than my opponent, these are the tactics of Orks, I should be better than that.

>>54725396
No, figure out why you are losing, make changes to compensate and then win. We can help you out a little bit if you tell us about the situation.

>>54725400
Did you inform him that he should be playing as his founding chapter instead?

>>54725407
Black Templars Chapter Tactics allows all Black Templar infantry, bikes and dreadnoughts to reroll failed charges

Is this a good Tyranid color scheme?
>Zandri Dust/Ushabti Bone chitin
>Pallid Wych Flesh skin
>? Muscle/flesh

>>54725368
How old are you?
How long have you being playing?
How often do you change your army list?
Do your opponents ask your faction or look at your list before writing theirs?

Post an example list and the accompanying plan.

>>54725396
What list are you running and who do you typically play against? Maybe we can give you some advice.

>>54725408
I hope you're not that newfag shitposter who keeps whining he wants Emps Children models to look "perfect and elegant" instead of like the freaky degenerate psychos they're actually supposed to be.

>>54725423
I don't doubt you, I just want to know where to find the chapter rules and buffs.

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>>54725408
Glad to hear it. Between you and I, I play Emperor's Children too. I don't win all my games, but I have a lot of fun playing them. It's a journey to perfection but we don't take it one step at a time... we sprint.

>>54725392
I'm sure that's how they imagine themselves when they masturbate to the idea of telling someone off for their none fluffy army.

>>54725432
In the fucking codex?

>>54725400
Bitch, those fucking niggeroids need to man the fuckup. 8th edition has been nothing but good to them, what with the "Always shoot any weapon at any target, and then charge any enemy after shooting any weapon", followed by movement speed increases across the board and a vast reduction in No-Man's Land sizes.

My contemptors regularly get in melee on turn 1, thanks to No-Man's Land in most missions being a fucking 12" mark, and at most only 18", same deal with LEVIATHANS. DO YOU KNOW WHAT HAPPENS WHEN A LEVIATHAN GETS TO START 12" AWAY FROM SOME POOR BASTARD?

HE SHOOTS 3 COMPLETELY DIFFERENT UNITS, WIPES OUT ONE OF THEM, CRIPPLES 2, AND THEN CHARGES A 4TH UNIT TO WIPE IT FROM EXISTENCE.

THE CONTEMPTORS ARE JUST THERE TO MOP-UP THE SURVIVORS. GETTING MY FUCKING 5" OR 9" CHARGES OFF ON TURN 1 IS THAT MUCH EASIER WHEN YOU GET TO REROLL FAILS.

>>54725432
https://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Codex-Space-Marines-hb-2017-ENG

>>54725367
Jesus, I don't know how I forgot about spell familiars but that's definitely something I want back too. Even if it has to be a relic or something, I want tiny guys back to help me.
Speaking of which: Do you guys prefer your familiars on the same base or on a different base from your guy?

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>>54725417

I agree.

>>54725424
If you like it, I don't see a huge problem with it. As always, try out your scheme on a gaunt or something small first, to be sure you want to do it to your whole army.

>>54725454
Spell Familiar is back, it's a strategem now that allows a psyker to know one more power than he usually gets to know.

>>54725454
They'd almost definitely be on a different base if you were representing them with a mini since both the cherub and watcher in the dark are.

>>54725470
I think it's actually he can rearrange what powers he knows midgame, but doesn't give him more powers.

There's another one that gives an additional cast.

>>54725454
I like same base, but then again, different base means that I can use it for any model rather than just one.

Why do Berzerkers have so many attacks now? Are they really that fast in the fluff because fucking Cain went toe to toe to one.

>>54725417
No success so far, somehow he's convinced he is a big Black Templar fan.

>>54725483
I'm not sure that it's because they are so fast, I think that it's because they don't pink tink tonk trade blows with you, they HAMMER HAMMER HAMMER HAMMER HAMMER at you

>>54725483
>regular human going toe to toe with a Space Marine, let alone a Khorne Berzerker
Wat

>>54725424
Dickheads on here will complain that it's boring and too drab since apparently there have to be bright colors in order to get their attention.

But it sounds fine.

>>54725483
Cain fluff is retarded all across the board.

Berzerkers are fast but they're not that fast, just counter-offensive to interrupt their second fight.

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>>54725430
No no no, if I wanted them to look elegant and perfect I'd model them like that, use FW conversion bits and armor pieces, stuff like that.
Personally I give mine more mutations than they need, I do like giving them white topknot hair though.
>>54725439
>sprinting on the path to perfection
Don't forget to leave corpses of imperfect enemies behind.
No one wins EVERY game either, I just noticed I only seem to win against players who are either newer than me, or I get lucky and make all my army saves when I should have by all rights lost my entire squad or my opponent fails every single save, sometimes in the same game.
I have some unholy luck, I should be backing it up with strategy instead of leaning on it like a crutch.

>>54725479
Hmmm, interesting. Could be pretty useful!

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So the way the chapter tactics section is worded, you can choose whichever chapter tactic you think is most appropriate for your successor chapter.

This specifically means that your <chapter> is not <black templar>, thus you cannot take black templar characters, crusader squads, or the BT relic but you can take librarians.

am I interpreting this reasonably?

>>54725483
Berserkers always had tons of attacks untill 6th edition, when GW felt the need to drop their Attack value to 1 for some reason.

Isn't Cain a comedy series ?

>>54725470
Oh wait, really? That's neat.
>>54725481
Yeah, I'd say that same base can be nice but different bases can mean sharing as you said or possibly more customization, so it's a mixed bag for me.

>>54725500
I feel that. As soon as our Codex hits the deck we're going to surf that shit like Doomrider. I'm excited, noise bro.

>>54725490
Cain is really talented at being defensive and escaping, so he kept it at bay for a while until Jurgen got his melta on it.

>>54725490

It was only for a very short time. And he's an amazing duelist. Then his assistant melta'd the Zerker's top half off.

>>54725483
Cain is blessed with the Emperor's own luck and should not be compared to regular mortals. Incidentally, he is also a master of defensive sword fighting.

>>54725486
>Boy I sure do love World Eaters, but it's not fair that none of my bonuses buff my shooting and why can't I take Sorcerers? This is bullshit.

>>54725483
Cain won that one through taunts, holding out & not making any meaningful hits & waiting for Jurgen to get a good shot with a Melta. In other words, dodgetanking & relying on someone else for DPS.

>>54725490
more a case of him holding one off momentarily (and even that is hyped up as a big feat for a skilled swordsman like Cain) until his sidekick blasts the berserker with his meltagun

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>>54725483
This nigga right here is naruto running
Heck yeah they're that fast

>>54725515
Oh yeah, I can barely wait, wish our tactic was more impressive than being a copy-paste of Quicksilver Swiftness but after seeing the stratagems, relics, and psychic powers I'm pretty happy with it.
I'm gonna start fighting like an Emperor's Children, strategically placing my units in key positions, and killing enemy units one at a time, picking the enemy army apart unit by unit.

>>54725483

A single khorne berserker with a chainaxe and chainsword charging a commissar lord will do about 2 wounds to him after both of his fights.

That commissar with a power sword will do .69 wounds to a khorne berserker

So it'll take either one 2 turns to kill the other, its basically a coin flip.

>>54725555
Damn right and you know what, it seems like someone out there agrees with you based on those numerals.

>>54725506
In a friendly game, no one but the most autistic of spergs should have a problem with that. In a competitive game, you might run into some trouble.

I'm guessing GW wants to encourage people to use renegade warbands and successor chapters and intentionally made it flexible.

Is Tyranid Swarm + Start collecting s good day to start playing nids?

>>54725552
>khorne dammit brother killthirst, stop running like that you faggot

I find the idea of that one weaboo berserker that shouts out attack names while swinging his chainaxes to the irritation of the rest of his squad amusing

>>54724319
this is a topic well-treaded no doubt, but I admit I'm fairly nascent with 40k myself, so I will spoiler the question:

Let's say, somehow, someway, Eldar,
Tau, and the Imperium actually formed an alliance which involved open sharing of technology and troops on the grounds of simply ensuring stable societies unmolested by Chaos, Nids, Orkz, and Necrons, what would be their odds at succeeding? Or would chaos simply adapt itself and become stronger to crush this alliance?

>>54725563
It's intentionally flexible to encourage Your Dudes, but there are two key things to remember.

One, no named guy who is supposed to use tactics X can take anything else but tactics X. Girlyman always takes the Ultramarines tactics, which means that any detachment you take girlyman in must also take the Ultramarines tactics. Two is that you can take other detachments and each detachment can use other tactics based on who you take with them, as long as that doesn't violate rule 1.

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>>54725563

Friendly game, totally.

But I'm pretty sure its even RAW for competitive scenes

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>>54725552
>narutorunning

>>54725577
That's like asking if you can beat brain cancer by shooting yourself in the brain. The answer is no.

>>54724869
What if I were to tell you I have 20 Thunder Hammer termies with stormshields?

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>>54725562
Aw yes, not exactly Slaanesh numbers but I'll take it.
Thanks for the advice, got to figure out good ways to hold my side of the board this week, I'm thinking Raptors and Terminators taking out his tank models with melta shots in the early game while my Blastmasters fuck him up from defensive positions until he gets closer might be the way to go.

>>54725596
What if I were to tell you about Death Hex? :^)

>>54725552
I thought he was imitating the Blood Letter next to him.

>>54725577
They might survive a little longer working together than apart but in the end chaos would still fuck everything

>>54725599
Digits agree with you again, noisebro.

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Is he still canon?

>>54725604
No. Actually do tell me about Death Hex. Please?

>>54725596

I would say they're 1100 points of non-obsec units that are going to be really frustrating to play if they fail their deep strike charge.

>>54725596
Chaos Sorcerers are going to make you shit your pants then with Death Hex and Smite.

But if you want to be a first company, go for it. You're going to need some actual feet on the board while you teleport in en masse though. Got anything that buffs charge distance?

>>54725620
Warp Charge value 8, 12" range, target must be in line of sight. If successful, target unit cannot take invulnurable saves until the beginning of caster's next psychic phase

>>54725615
Sweet, thanks for the advice again, gotta paint up my Chosen for those bonus points though.

>>54725629
Warp time is great for deep striking terminators.
Being able to drop in and then walk 5" closer basically guarantees the charge.

>>54725635
Of course. Looking forward to reading how it went after you play a few more games!

Oh yeah, if your noise marines are getting charged often, Doom Siren got upgraded to Assault d6 from Assault d3 if you didn't hear.

>>54725499
>>54725483

>Cain fluff is retarded all across the board.

Cain is established in his fluff as being a gifted swordsman. Amberly describes him as "the finest swordsman in the sector" and Cain also manages to land a blow on a Techmarine during a sparring match whilst he's on board the Reclaimer's battle barge, a feat that surprises the Marine to no end (he leaves the scratch Cain's sword leaves on his armour to remind him never to underestimate a foe).

Cain in fact goes toe to toe with 2 Berserkers in the same novel, but that's a misleading statement. In the first case, he duels for a few moments with one, managing to dodge and parry its attacks until Jurgen can get a shot in with his melta. In the second, he encounters a Berserker after its fought its way through dozens of Slaaneshi cultists armed with heavy weapons. Its armour is gaping open and the Berserker is resting against a wall, badly wounded. Cain again manages to duel with it for a short time until he manages to shove his chainsword into a rent in the Marine's armour and decapitates it afterwards.

Now none of that is retarded or against the established fluff of 40K. It's worth pointing out that the 2nd marine Cain kills is part of a squad of 5 that teleport down to the planet. Said squad slaughters untold numbers of cultists, with 2 surviving to reach the ritual site where a Daemonhost is being summoned. Said Daemonhost then kills the last two, but that's well established too.

>>54725642
I assumed he was loyalist marines with his thunder hammers and stormshields.

okay, xenos, take a break from carrying chaos baddies and post some hopes for your codices. Aside from being released before 2019

>>54725650
I heard, I'm super pleased about that, even more pleased than when I learned Noise Champion could finally take a Sonic Blaster.

>>54725100
Sweet, thanks.
I've still got a few magnets from my wyches, worth doing those, maybe?

>>54725663
ah fuck
I've been mind flooded with the chaos release

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who else here would play custodes if they would just release 40k rules for their HH stuff

>>54725631
That's why I'm taking 20-40 Terminators at once in groups of 5. You can't use the same psychic power more than once.

I'm just trying to figure out if fielding my 1st company alone is good - or do I have to bring in the fucking 2nd or 3rd companies too.

Haven't played for a while. Tomorrow is a 1500 or 2500 game for Konor. Next week is a 40,000 point per side game... and I'm bringing the 1st, 2nd, 3rd, and 7th companies of Ultramarines. Along with Girlyman.

Just trying to decide what to 'open up with.' Figured a chunk of the 1st Company might make them flinch.

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just did a rough basecoat (gonna redo some parts tomorrow) so ive never picked up a paint brush in my life, not the most steady hands but this is my first ever painted model from the first strike set i picked up today, pls no bully

also man painting is really therapeutic!

>>54725677
In a heartbeat with no looking back. 30k Custodes are so fucking cool.

>>54725629
Not him but doing similar.

Celestine + 20 Seraphim + 2 squads of Doms
20 Termies + Captain

Celestine and Seraphim are in their face turn fucking one while Terminators rain down. In the back is lascannons helping out.

Should have good synergy right?

>>54725677
Given they're my 30k army? Fuck yeah

>>54725677
Why couldn't they just release rules for 8th edition HH
Just turn my army into junk resin thanks

>>54725658
I think it mentioned many hundreds of Slannesh cultists & it was their home turf too. Between fucktons of Slaanesh cultists, sometimes suicide bombing, some mechanicus skitarii the cultists took control of & plenty of fortified positions, those Khornates probably each slew hundreds that day.

>>54725688
Nice dubs Grymm

>>54725658
Wow that's bullshit, talk about a mary sue. Apparently a Khorne Berzerker has the same or similar skill as a Techmarine in close combat, according to that retarded author.

He must have read their 6th edition statline lol

Fun fact: There's no chaos space marine beakies because beakies are superior.

>>54725699
>>54725690

like I get that you could run the transport grav tank as a land raider

but you're still missing literally everything else.

What a disappointment

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>>54725666
okay satan

I actually think Dark Eldar got a pretty good Index all things considered, so the Codex would be mostly polish. I'd like
>cheaper Reavers
>another HQ, ideally something that can fit into Kabals/Covens/Cults fluffwise; Kabals in particular need a good buffing HQ
>some equivalent to Chapter Tactics for different Kabals/Covens/Cults

Oh and more Sslyth

Those would be nice.

>>54725706
I could make a joke about 7th edition being so bad it literally gave the main FW rule writer cancer here, but it seems too soon

>>54725717
Said techmarine was going easy because it was a simple sparring match against a commissar. By the time he fought those Berzerkers, Cain was older & more experienced. Besides, those Berzerkers were incoherently raging half the time. I doubt they cared anything for efficient movement.

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>>54725732
Um, no sweetie.

>>54725667
Hell yeah. I'm thinking about taking a good melee weapon, doom siren and sonic blaster on my champ in some future games and trying to get the noise marines in close in some future games to try to force the opponent to choose between charging and eating a bunch of noise on the way in and still getting torn up from our quicksilver swiftness or staying back and eating a bunch of sonic goodness before we charge them. I usually run the noise marines more defensively but I'm super interested in seeing if playing them really aggressively will work out well with the new codex.

>>54725762
>night lords doodling skulls on their stolen helmets with crayons
I'm gettin real spooked

>>54725751
He probably got it from all that resin.

What models can I use as a crusader squad?

>2 points shy of an upgrade I want
>could sell a 2 point upgrade elsewhere but doing so would leave a squad asymmetrical and rustle my 'tisms something FIERCE

Fuck.

I just want to buy a Fusion Pistol for my Autarch, why does this have to be so hard

I don't wanna settle for an Avenger Shuriken Catapult

>>54725666
6 man venoms
It's all that I want for DE
PLEASE

>>54725780
>why does this have to be so hard

>That's what she said

>>54725773

tacticals

tacticals with BT upgrade bits

non sniper scouts

>>54725763
Considering all our weapons are assault, I think we're supposed to be more aggressive now.
Even the blastmaster can fire at assault d6 in exchange for reduced stats.

>>54725754
Yeah and an 'experienced' comissar is going to casually beat a veteran of the long war who is probably over 3k years old from the most melee obsessed fighting force in the galaxy that also has brain implants that multiply his adrenaline production beyond what any marine can achieve without even taking a scratch? Because he had a rent in his armor kek?

It's insane plot armor at best, or an invincible mary sue at worst pick your poison. In Dark Apostle a Tempestus Colonel tried to parry a chainaxe with his power sword and was sent flying for his trouble, even though the chainaxe broke. And that was against a regular, rank and file Word Bearer.

Yet somehow this obvious self insert can somehow trade blows with a fucking Khorne Berzerker using only a shitty chainsword?

Yes, I mad.

>>54725817
>an 'experienced' comissar is going to casually beat a veteran of the long war

You mean stick his sword in his gaping wound caused by the other 500 cultists the guy single handedly ripped apart

and even then still almost die

I should screencap the passage in MoM where Custodes talk about how insultingly easy it is to kill world eaters with some sick bants.

>>54725666
Those trips. Truly Chaos is grateful for being carried

T'au sig systems being all useful.
<Septs> leading to a few different styles of play with some degree of distinction
Troll-tastic stuff as usual, I of course won't abuse it

>>54725830
>I should screencap the passage in MoM where Custodes talk about how insultingly easy it is to kill world eaters with some sick bants.

Please do actually, I wanna read about custards

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>>54725780
>rustle my 'tisms something FIERCE

You aren't alone.

>Primaris Captain must have an auto or stalker rifle
>No option for regular bolt rifle
>May take a power sword in addition to the rifle
>Lieutenant has an auto or stalker, but again, not a regular bolt rifle
>May EXCHANGE rifle for power sword
>Intercessor Sergeant may take a regular bolt rifle AND a power sword

>>54725808
Absolutely and ever since I started playing more aggressively it's been working out for me. IMO it's not just about being aggressive towards the enemy either, it's about making a decision and then doing it full bore. I got a crew of Havocs into a bad spot and I knew they were going to die, so I took the other guys supporting them, turned around and ran the fuck away leaving them to die. Turned out the be 100% the right move and helped me win the game. Hell, in a situation like that, advancing away from the enemy and still shooting your Assault weapons is a great trade for a measly -1 to hit (and d6 auto hits if you happen to wind up within range of something for your Doom Siren)

>>54725830
>I should screencap the passage in MoM where Custodes talk about how insultingly easy it is to kill world eaters with some sick bants.

I could dig up the part in Outcast Dead where an unarmed and unarmoured World Eater kicks a fully armed and armoured Custodes' ass and rips his spine out. Custodes was a bit slower than normal because Ork spore infection naughty Custodes but still, full armour and that halberd of theirs should be a huge advantage.

>>54725817
I get the feeling that if a Khornate Berzerker had all its limbs hacked off, was bleeding extremely hugely through enormous holes in his armor & some Land Raider randomly ran him over, you'd call bullshit.

The Berzerkers at that point had slaughtered their way through many hundreds of Slaanesh cultists. Their armor had taken numerous explosives, heavy bolter rounds & more. The Berzerker he finished off was gravely injured & two feet already in the grave.

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How the fuck do I counter the majestic baby carrier beyond spamming it with neutron laser fire?

>>54725863

They literally kill an entire chapter of world eaters before sitting down on their corpses and telling the frothing survivors how dumb angron is.

Top bants.

>>54725830
>You mean stick his sword in his gaping wound caused by the other 500 cultists the guy single handedly ripped apart
Except even fresh scout marines are able to fight nonstop for up to a week, and Berzerkers have often been described as not giving two shits about pain (the natural effect from their insane adrenaline). So yes, him somehow getting past his defenses, being able to parry him at all without being sent flying is outright canon rape, let alone the zerker just letting him cut his head off without swinging back on his death throes.

>and even then still almost die
He didn't take a fucking scratch.

>should screencap the passage in MoM where Custodes talk about how insultingly easy it is to kill world eaters with some sick bants.
Custodes which are essentially super marines? I'm not surprised. But some fucking Comissar with a chainsword? Nah.

>>54725875

laughter

>>54725817
>"This person is good at fighting, therefore no one should ever beat him in combat no matter the circumstances"

Alright

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>>54725817
>my mens are the best, no one can ever beat them no matter what the circumstances are

>>54725875

By not being all that scared of it, its a squishier dread that hits on 4+'s

>>54725877

I think you're someone who has bought into the marine hype a bit too much and shouldn't get so upset about an NPC faction member dying to a literal PC.

>>54725446
WTF is your leviathan wielding?

>>54725874
The thing is that what you are describing is a normal tuesday to any space marine. Your rank and file Blood Raven could easily pull that off with little trouble.

>>54725876
Sounds like a boring story.

>>54725875
Drown it with kastelan dakka. It makes literally any fight trivial.

>>54725901

its window dressing for the actual antagonists of the setting, chaos daemons. They slaughter literally 90% of the custodes before the Emperor finally pulls out and closes the gate.

>>54725881
>>54725889
>m-maybe if I start strawmanning he will not notice i ran out of arguments!
Top kek

>>54725875
Just spam the damm neutron lasers, don't give a fuck about anything else.

>>54725914
sorry anon, I'm not the guy you originally argued with, just a passerby calling you a faggot

>>54725914
Not the original guy either, but your argument is just bullshit.
Saying you hate invincible mary sues, and then wanting your precious berserkers to never lose in a fight, even if they're half torn apart

>>54725892
> Storm Cannon
> 2 Heavy Flamers
> Leviathan Claw w/ Meltagun

Storm Cannon prioritizes MEQ and Multiwound units, with a strong preference for Multiwound MEQ/TEQ, and for a distance beyond charging.

Heavy flamers target nearby units, Meltagun hits a vehicle/monster. Leviathan can then initiate a charge on a 4tu unit, although it will prioritize vehicles/monsters/high toughness units that it can make the most of it's ultra-high damage melee.

Like I said, it can realistically only wipe one or two units, but it can cripple a bunch of units if it's shooting is prioritized at only effective targets. I use contemptors with Kheres/Chainfists to mop-up anything the leviathan doesn't kill.

>>54725890
You are probably right, but I still can't wrap my head around the fluff/crunch disparity.

I mean what have they ever accomplished outside of the table? (Novels specifically) they always get destroyed in every BL novel, only Kharn seemingly exempt from this.

>>54725901
No, a Space Marine in that circumstance would be praying to the Emperor for an apothecary to arrive. Space Marines aren't so durable that the number of cultists they went through wouldn't do nothing. Five of them had to go through many hundreds of Slaanesh cultists on heavily armed fortifications & they charged right in rather than use firearms in many cases. One of them was taken out by a group of suicide bombers strapped by an outrageous amount of explosives.

>>54725552
>>54725571
given slaneesh is all about pain and pleasure, do you think she forces her cultists and chaos marines to watch bad harem shit with tsundere female leads?

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>>54725877

I miss when marines were expendable, mind wiped convicts sent in to die on space hulks to find treasure and surviving to a century was a fucking achievement.

>>54725817
you are an uproariously outrageous faggot. 5 stars would read again

>>54725923
>so terminally btfo he literally resorts to namecalling
Lmao

>>54725932
>wanting your dudes to never lose in a fight
There is that strawman again.

>>54725948
Only the ones that talk about how much they hate it but secretly love it

>>54725934

if you want good WE action, read Betrayer.

But otherwise you should really appreciate that world eaters are really THE faceless antagonist of CSM to job for imperial protagonists.

>>54725934
That's probably because you only ever read books from the Imperium POV (because that's like 95% of the stories) and in those any flavour of CSM alwasy get mowed down in numbers and with ease like they're Orks.
If you read something from the traitors' POV, their armour suddenly is just as good as that of the loyalists in their books.

>>54725933
neat. for some reason i'd forgotten the flamers. that's a nifty piece of machinery you got there

>>54725949
But anon, Rogue Trader has been decades ago now.

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>>54725948
I'm sure that Khorne has the entire series of Kimi no Iru Machi on his bookshelf somewhere. Was anyone on /a/ when we read through this series?

>>54725956
Because it's an outrageously bad situation for the berserker.
Fighting through hundreds of cultists and being wounded, and then having to fight someone that has spent his whole life learning how to fight with a sword.

Your precious widdle baby lost
Get over it faggot

>>54725948
>she
>anime shit

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>>54725956
>btfo
You're embarrassing yourself, here's your last (You), make it last!

>>54725945
>what is Larraman's Organs
>he doesn't know marines can heal gunshot wounds in seconds
They are actually. Literally the only way to take them out is to blow them up, fuck both of their hearts or shoot them through the helmet, good luck doing that with autoguns and heavy stubbers.

>>54725952
>gets rekt and btfo
>y-you're a f-fag!!!
Cry moar faggot your tears are delicious.

>>54725934
Reasonablity, for shame, where is your righteous rage, your mindless anger, your primarch is shamed by your lack of dogged pursuit regardless of fact!

jokes aside, try liking nobz or meganobz and watch them bounce from unkillable behemoths to getting wrecked in a 12 pack by a single tactical marine in the fluff back and forth

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>>54725993

I'm old.

>but my guy has been fighting for 10,000 years and is the bestest he cant be beaten by anyone except other superhumans
>I remember when human heroes were S4/T4 and inquisitors were S5/T5

enough

>>54726002
>anime shit
That's the point though. It's entertainment, or supposed to be, but it's painful to watch.

>>54724334
Well, seeing how cheap Warpsmiths are now, I'd just take 3 Warpsmiths, each with a Combi-Flamer on top, and stuff them in a Rhino. 3 Meltaguns, 3 Bolters at -1 To Hit, 6 Flamers, a whole bunch of Power Axe attacks, another bunch of Mechatendril attacks and then -3 to Morale.

>>54726004
Given the injuries the Berzerker was described as having, I'm doubtful that Larraman's helped. Heavy Bolter rounds hurt. Especially because the characters commented out outright polluted & fucked up said Berzerker's blood looked. One warned another not to touch it so he doesn't get some sort of Warp-AIDS.

>>54725586
I think you're much more likely to encounter someone sperging over it in casual games or low level competitive (that's where the real fuck wits congregate).

>>54726028
I mean he did just wade through fucking slaaneshi, and it's not like they don't poison their fucking swords and bullets and cocks and skin and hair and shirts and FUCKING YESSSSS MOOAR

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>>54726004
>They are actually. Literally the only way to take them out is to blow them up, fuck both of their hearts or shoot them through the helmet, good luck doing that with autoguns and heavy stubbers.
I think you've hyped up marines far beyond even what GW will write them as capable of.

>>54726013
I do agree that marines are too one-dimensional goodies or baddies that live forever unless killed these days.

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>>54726004
Space Marines can heal well but they aren't pic related.

>>54725976
I'd rather we don't get mentioned at all. At least GW threw us a bone in the Blood Crusade...

>>54725981
Thing is there aren't any BL novels featuring post-heresy World Eaters. It's always Kharn and he rarely fights alongside them.

>>54725997
>Because it's an outrageously bad situation for the berserker.
Fighting through hundreds of cultists and being wounded, and then having to fight someone that has
Something any marine can casually do, kek.

>spent his whole life learning how to fight with a sword.
Vs someone who spend several millenia learning how to fight with swords axes fists and pretty much every close combat weapon in existence? Fuck it's not like they're unique in that, all chapters do it.

>>54726003
>d-don't use that word it triggers me!
Top kek, absolutelt btfo

>>54726053
Bug-man, are you made of meat?

>>54725877
>being able to parry him at all without being sent flying is outright canon rape
Apparently you don't understand how a parry works and only know about sword play from movies.

>>54726041
>beyond even what GW will write them as capable of.

For now ...

>Casts worried look at Stigmarine fluff in AOS

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>>54726061
He's made of perfection.

did they fuck up and give this guy the Bitch's Nails instead?

>>54725506
yes, that's correct

>>54726058
>Literally has his armour blown open and barely able to stand
Yeah, no, he's fucked.
inb4 asspull numbers from a codex 3 editions ago saying how marines never get tired and spit acid lmao

>>54726028
What kind of injuries are we talking about?

>>54726041
Are you kidding me? This is basic stuff. Do you not know what the gene-seed implants do? Have you even read the SM codex period?

>>54726053
That was a massive plot hole though, his head was blown up so he shouldn't have healed.

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>>54726077
Yes.

No.

Maybe.

>>54726062
I actually got it from Dark Apostle you massive faggot.

>>54725817
Said "beating of berserker" was also him just constantly parrying few blows and running away until the entire guardsmen blob lasgunned him.

Cain maybe gets one ineffectual hit at best

>>54726089
Marines can heal incredible amounts of damage yes ... but that still takes some time. Having instant scar tissue covering up most of the wound only stops them from bleeding out like a cut pig, not that the wound is fully healed yet.

>>54726086
>asspull numbers from a codex 3 editions ago saying how marines never get tired and spit acid lmao
You imply this is not a thing? Read the fucking fluff guardfag lmao