Paizo Games General /pgg/ (also /pfg/)

>Paizo still can't get their shit together

>>54711907
>Revolver
>Chain on the inside
What is this weapon even?

>>54711907
After looking at the feats, Envoy is easily salvagable.

Operatives are just sneakier Soldiers and contribute nothing to the party except damage and skills, but everyone brings skills to the party. So you may as well play a Soldier and be more effective at doing damage since stealth is entirely pointless in a tech-filled environment..

>>54711941
it's not a revolver, it's the magneto driven engine for the chainsaw.

>>54711934
Did anyone really expect them too?

>>54711963

>since stealth is entirely pointless in a tech-filled environment..

What?

>>54711993
You can't stealth from something like an infrared beam.

>>54712009

The stealth rules say no such thing.

>>54712009

According to whom or what? What level of stupid is this?

>>54711993
The number of ways you can foil stealth in tech environs are much higher than the ways stealth can benefit you in a tech environs, anon. It's simple logistics. In fantasy, stealth is exceedingly powerful because it's hard to defeat. But with sensor arrays, robots, mutlviisual sensory systems, and much more powerful noise detection, etc. etc., stealth becomes a moot point.

>>54712033
According to logic m8.

>>54712033
Common fucking sense. The rules don't say my character can't just become a diety the moment play starts either, guess I can just do that and solve the campaign.

That being said, you can just move around and disable beams. But that's acrobatics+tech shit.

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>>54712048

>>54712044
That's BS unless the rules say that's how it works.
And Operative literally gets Hide in Plain Sight at level 5 and a lot of other goodies.

>>54712009
No but you or a friend can hack the beams away.

>>54711963
>After looking at the feats, Envoy is easily salvagable.
How?

>>54712061

So infrared beams can suddenly detect magic invisibility?

The Technomancer can't disable sensors with their magic?

I want to play a top-heavy action Icon in a skintight bodysuit!

>>54712009
>"You can't because of logic"

>In a game with extremely advanced tech
>In a game with magic
>Hacking is a thing, as are bond-tier gadgets
>"You can't hide from an infrared beam"

>>54712063
See
>>54712044
Stealth isn't just moving quietly in a dark room with a guard+some alarm spells.

>>54712061
And Hide in Plain sight doesn't stop robots from detecting your body heat or lasers trip wires from detecting you unless it also allows you to set your body temperature to that of corpse or renders you literally invisible.

>>54712094
You posted this last thread and it wasn't good then. Delete

>Stealth is useless in a technological setting!

None of you fucks have ever played a cyberpunk setting, have you? The Infiltrator is a core archetype for goddamn any of them; the trick is that stealth is harder than just 'I sneak by in the shadows', so you need a broader skill and knowledge base.

>>54712070
>>54712088
That's not stealth as the skill though?

>>54712063
How do you hide from what amounts to a camera with Blindsight, Tremorsense, Lifesense, and True Seeing without special technical equipment of your own, at which point whether or not you have stealth is irrelevant?

>>54712096
Gadgets aren't about stealth the skill and a Wizard with Invisibility + Forced Silence didn't need Stealth in Pathfinder either.

>>54712113
That's kinda of what people are saying.

>>54712120
>without special technical equipment of your own
Why would you?
Operatives literally get a cloaking field as a class feature as early as level 5.

>>54712105
There's probably a gadget or armor upgrade that can hide your body temperature.

>>54712105

>And Hide in Plain sight doesn't stop robots from detecting your body heat

Considering Androids don't actually have any such thing...I'm pretty sure that's not in the rules.

Also: Predator literally had them fool body heat detection with being clever with stealth.

I want to play an Envoy and let my party down every session!

>>54712113
Face is also much more important in scifi than in fantasy
Which makes Envoys stronger social skills more valuable than given

>>54712133
No, they're saying it's outright useless, instead of 'it's hard so you have to think things through and have support'. >>54712120 is flat saying the skill is useless, which is untrue; it's just part of a package of various useful things an infiltrator needs to have and know.

>>54712120

>camera with Blindsight, Tremorsense, Lifesense, and True Seeing

Where are these cameras?

>>54712120
>Camera has tremorsense
Wouldn't it make more sense to have sonar?

>>54712145
>Considering Androids don't actually have any such thing
What do you mean by this.

Androids in Starfinder/Pathfinder aren't robots built to detect intruders so why would they have heat sensors. They're essentially homunculi. Their humans with funky looking tats and the same body functions. They probably have body heat too. I'm not seeing your point.

>>54712165
Infrared camera.

>>54712135
And why would they need to have stealth if they have Invisibility and Silence? That's the entire point.

>>54712196
>>infrared cameras can see fucking vibrations
are you retarded?

>>54712165
>>54712165
We're assuming they exist given the fact that this is a high science fucking fantasy setting with space travel, lasers, and advanced AI. We have tech like that IRL right now and we can't even combine that with magic.

It would be really, really fucking stupid if there was NOTHING like that in Starfinder.

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Why do the daredevil and the thief have no +4 to trick attack, when every other operative, including the ghost, receives the +4 to trick attack?

>>54712156

Please note that the Diplomacy skill is more limited in Starfinder than it is in Pathfinder.

Diplomacy in Starfinder can be used to "change attitude" and "gather information," but it can no longer be used to "make a request."

Which Theme are you lads most excited for? I'm hyped about the Ace Pilot!

>>54712209
>people won't have multiple security measures.

>in your scifi all enemies dont have "see all players in all situations, even walls" goggles on all the time
wow you faggots play some unoptimized easy shit

>>54712210

And it would be really stupid to say 'Stealth skills in a sci-fi game are only concerned with sneaking in old-school ways'. Someone trained in stealth in a sci-fi game should be trained in methods to bypass detection appropriate for the setting.

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>>54712178
Okay, fuckboy, let's look at First Contact.
Security Robots have Perception +10 and Darkvision, but no other special senses.

>>54712220
None. The entire game looks like a load of horse shit and I doubt I'll even be able to backport the weapons and armor properly.

>>54712213
Good.
Make request created more problems than it solved.

>>54712196
That brings up another problem. Who even uses infrared cameras? Yes, with advanced technology there's bound to be more ways to stealth, and more ways to detect stealth.

But at the same time not everyone would upgrade to Infrared truesight 4k cameras because they cost money. In this day and age, does everyone own top of the line security software? Do all businesses have police-linked alarms and guard dogs? No, because that costs money. Does everyone have an amazing computer with a GTX-Whatever? No, because that's unfeasible- You're not always going to be infiltrating megacorporations with mega-security, like that one anon seems to think. Stealth is completely viable, you just have to be careful.

>>54712209
Tremorsense is just a good mic m8.

>>54712204

Because invisibility is only a bonus to stealth? Not 'Auto-win'?

>>54712237
>one monster out of a preview bestiary.

>>54712220
Outlaw Soldier cowboy.

Is it true that Space Goblins can fuse with machinery and make it go haywire? That sounds like a fun spin on saying you've got Goblins in the system!

>>54712256
It's literally security robots, aka the shit you were talking about. Now fuck off.

>>54712213
Extra bonus for non-Dex based skills? Althrough Stealth is Dex-based too.

>Quickdraw nerfed
The fuck is this shit.

I love Starfinder so far! I also love its level-based equipment!

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>>54711963

>Operatives are just sneakier Soldiers

Please be reminded that operatives have 10 (yes, 10) base skill points per level before their Intelligence modifier, two free Skill Focus feats, and a scaling bonus to all skill checks as part of their basic class progression, not even including any selected talents.

>>54712248
>who even uses infrared cameras
Literally every business who needs security. Banks have not only infrared cameras, they usually have infrared lasers that you can trip by walking through like an invisible, intangible tripwire.
What you're saying is that you can use stealth to rob Mom and Pop shops, in which case - what the fuck are you doing? I guess if you're level 1-3 stealth will be useful, yeah.

>>54712264
>there is only going to be one type of security robot, one that was written as more of a "riot/guard type"
>there aren't going to be camera's, motion detectors, etc
Wow, Paidrones coming out in full force.

>>54712282
>two free Skill Focus feats, and a scaling bonus to all skill checks as part of their basic class progression
These don't even stack lmao.

>>54712274
Yeah, wasn't so fond of that m'self.

>>54712282
Operator's Edge does not stack with Skill focus

>>54712258
>Outlaw cowboy

So dashing~!

>>54712283

Presumably higher level characters are better at stealth and thus able to sneak better past better security. So far we have seen nothing that indicated extra sensors are represented by anything other than better perception scores.

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Only a fucktard GM would let that guy sneak in
I would had put atleast 15 more cameras inside the room

>>54712318
> So far we have seen nothing that indicated extra sensors are represented by anything other than better perception scores.
We're assuming Paizo isn't completely fucking retarded. A dumb assumption, I know.

>>54712283
That doesn't mean it can't be useful at higher levels. You just need -planning-, not the "Hurrr I can use my stealth skill to pass through the infrared lasers" that someone assumes people will be doing. If you're breaking into a place, you're going to want a plan. You know, find out what kind of guards are in, where the exits are, and where those security measures are. Stealth would involve navigating those threats undetected, not just barging in and hoping to not get caught.

>"There's a camera up ahead, get the Tech to disable it"
>"The lasers are here, we need to take the alternate path"

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>>54712308
>>54712315

I never said they did. They still make for quite a useful skill package for an operative.

>>54712332

Which one would be retarded in this scenario?

>>54712349
Yeah Operative is a pretty cool class still

>>54712339
But my point is that detection is essentially all or nothing. Either you have the equipment and disabled the stuff, or you don't have the equipment or forgot to disable to stuff. Stealth never comes into the equation.

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>>54712317
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=999RqGZatPs

>>54712339
And at that point, the Technomancer and Mechanist are doing all the work. That's like saying stealth is useful in Pathfinder because the wizard can cast greater invisibility on you and give you an item of silence and turn you incorporeal.

At that point, it's not really your stealth skill doing the work.

>>54712332
You can't represent sonar with 'better perception' unless you have a bible for a head

>>54712362
That's assuming PCs operate only in high-tech environments. No infrared cameras on that unexplored jungle planet.

>>54712362

Or the stealth skill involves knowing the tricks and how to use the tools to get around various sensors. As you are a character in a sci-fi setting who's likely trained in stealth FOR a sci-fi setting. Rolling the skill is how well you can apply those tricks in practice.

any ideas on a homebrew rape mechanic?

>>54712332
you are the retard in this case

>>54712009

Predator says you're wrong.

>>54712220

Icon followed by Outlaw and Ace pilot

>>54712403
"Roll d20"

>>54712391
>Or the stealth skill involves knowing the tricks and how to use the tools to get around various sensors
Nope, because those tricks are represented in Engineering and Computers. Sorry m8.

>>54712416
Well it's a good thing operatives are DAMN FUCKING GOOD at using skills in general, am I right?

>>54712404
>MY EBIN STARFINER THAT'S GONNA SAVE ME FROM THOSE MEAN OLE FULLCASTERS CAN'T ALSO BE SHIT. IT CAN'T ME
>MUH LEWD D'VA ICONS
Fuck off.

>>54712403

Yeah,
step 1: Kill Yourself
step 2: Everyone shits on your grave

>Hurrr stealth is impossible
>But you're wrong

>>54712420
Yes, but not Stealth. Operatives are skillmonkeys and I like skillmonkeys and can expect them to be useful, but Stealth is useless.

>>54712420

No, you don't get it! No one, even with a +A bazillion stealth mod could sneak past an infrared camera!

>>54712420
So is literally everyone else.

>>54712416
Except your average Operative will boast something like 14 skills per level with there being 20 skills total thanks to being a DEX/INT class.
Also keep in mind Engineering and Computers are both INT-based, so Operatives will be great at those.

>>54712429
>no arguments
>hurr u wrong!

>>54712438
Explain to me how being good at hiding means you can erase radiation from yourself without a stealth suit - that anyone could wear.

You can always just avoid the security camera's field of view
Whew, it is like you guys have never played Splinter Cell or Deus Ex

>>54712442
I'm not saying Operatives are shit, I'm saying Stealth the skill is.

>>54712451
>security cams actually having blind spots
Are you retarded? Do you seriously think security professionals design their camera angles for the convenience of thieves who think they're playing some game?

>>54712469
The main use of Stealth is Trick Attacking as a Ghost desu. Keep in mind Ghost seems like the best Operative specialisation, and it Trick Attacks with Stealth.

>>54712469
Starfinder and Pathfinders are games

These Starfinder arguments will be even worse than Pathfinder arguments with how everyone operates on different expectations of sci-fi on top of different understandings of reality.

Better than celeb culture at least.

>>54712487
>hurr it's a game!!!!!1!one
I see, surely you have bested me with your inassailable arguments.

>>54712491
>implying /sfg/ won't have celeb culture as soon as the first game pops up
You poor, naive child.

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By 7th-level, with specialization skill mastery, an operative is automatically succeeding on nearly every trick attack for +4d8 damage and a debilitating attack, correct?

That seems quite effective for a skill monkey class.

Speaking of which, why does the operative's trick attack dice abruptly soar up to +3d8 at 5th-level? The operative's 5th-level package is far stronger than any other class's 5th-level upgrades for no discernible reason.

>>54712469
>who think they're playing some game?

Well...you literally ARE playing some game. Is there a single rule so far that implies things auto-beat stealth other than you saying they are?

>>54712448

>Explain to me how being good at hiding means you can erase radiation from yourself without a stealth suit - that anyone could wear.

You can avoid the camera's field of view or use local objects with a similar temperature to your own body heat to mask your movements, you could meditate and use your focus to lower your body temperature (Psychic powers are canon in the core book and are just a thing a character can be. It even lists it as one of the reasons an operative could use Mirror image) or you could just go Predator on the situation.

>>54712513
>SECURITY ISN'T A GAME!!!!!
>We are literally talking about a game
>HURF NO WE AREN'T GAMES AREN'T REAL

>>54712515
>Speaking of which, why does the operative's trick attack dice abruptly soar up to +3d8 at 5th-level?
For some reason, Trick Attack is just weaker at levels 1-4 than the rest of the progression.
It's weird.

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>>54712486

>Keep in mind Ghost seems like the best Operative specialisation, and it Trick Attacks with Stealth.

It is such a shame that the daredevil and the thief are arbitrarily screwed out of a +4 to trick attack.

Given that the ghost does receive the +4, and that the operative is primarily Dexterity-based, any operative interested in trick attacking with ease should be a ghost. Then again, it might not matter so much at 7th-level with specialization skill mastery, so long as you are *not* a daredevil or a thief.

>>54712513
Just because you can imagine perfect security detail does not make it right.
That is not how roleplaying works.

>>54712362

The guards still have the Mk1 Eyeball even if you disable any fancy sensors and See Invisible is a spell so you can't rely on that saving you.

>>54712539
How the fuck would you justify to your players that the Nationalized Central Bank of Space Stalin decided to leave convenient gaps in their camera coverage just large enough for a mouse PC to sneak through?

>>54712559
But then how would you justify someone who has decided to blow money on fucking infrared cams and shit deciding to leave holes conveniently located so your PCs can slip through? Really, the President of Space Iran just so happened to not have full camera coverage?

>>54712491
>>54712514
Yeah, but they'll take it all to /sfg/ and we'll finally be free.

>>54712562
Real life camera coverage often has gaps, anon.

>>54712562
Cost cutting.

Welcome to Corporations and Governments.

>>54712562
The wider the field of view is for the camera, the more distorted the image becomes and is easier to fool
Also cameras that do not move are easy to fool with still image plants

>>54712562

How can you justify the cameras being hackable? Shouldn't they have separate, secure networks for that rather than using wireless?

>>54712596
Still image plants are Tech.

>>54712603
Well, no shit, they would.

>>54712549
A lot of things like that and Solarian weapon progression have inconsistent rates. The most likely reason is that Paizo made an effort to scale abilities against appropriate encounters instead of keeping them neat for presentation. This is a good sign.

>>54712606

>Well, no shit, they would.

So no one can use Tech, Computers OR Stealth in your games to get around security?

>>54712606
And? Making camera foolproof to stealth makes it weak to other skills.

>>54712606
How the hell does anyone use the cameras then if they cannot be accessed?

Alright, we're the operative because stealth is impossible. Can we cut all of the other classes but mechanic because there's no reason to leave the house when you have drones, and the Technomancer because of magic?

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>>54712617

The solarian seems like an anemic class in general. I am not particularly sold on anything from graviton attunement, and it seems like a solarian's best bet is to focus on melee with photonic attunement and Plasma Sheath.

Why does a weapon-based solarian gain absolutely nothing at 5th-level except for base attack bonus? Comparatively, the operative gains a smorgasbord of upgrades at 5th-level, up to and including that precious +3d8 trick attack damage and an early talent.

So, how easy would it be to convert
>Path of War
>Spheres of Power
>Spheres of Might
to Starfinder?

>>54712639
Closed networks don't mean nobody can access it.

>>54712624
>>54712629
Seperate secure networks aren't literally unhackable, you know.

>>54712692
Closed networks are not hack free

>>54712692
>Seperate secure networks aren't literally unhackable, you know.

And nor are sensors literally unsneakable. Doubly so when so far there is literally nothing saying that anything auto-beats stealth.

Nothing in the stealth skill and nothing on the statline of the actual security robots.

>>54712708
I didn't say they are.

>>54712723
>And nor are sensors literally unsneakable
Except they are. There is no way to somehow trick a laser into thinking it wasn't broken, unless you don't break it, except you can't actually see the laser because they're invisible. If anything you're going to sleight of hand to try and take another, identical laser, set it up, point it at the sensor, and break the original, in which case again - that's not Stealth the skill, that's "being stealthy".

>>54712685
Doesn't Solarian's energy DR come online at 5th level?

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I just calculated: the average array you'll go for in Starfinder is equivalent to 12 Point Buy in Pathfinder.
If you instead give 15 Starfinder Points to spread around, the typical arrays get closer to 20PB in Pathfinder, while also letting you get rid of the odd ability score imposed by theme while odd ability scores are really bad in Starfinder and screw you over.
I think this is a reasonable houserule.

>>54712751

Provide a single citation in the system other than 'My ass'?

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>>54712755

It does, but that energy resistance takes move actions to shift around, and it is limited to cold or fire at any given time.

Weapon-using solarians are out of luck at 5th-level, especially compared to the operative at that exact level.

>>54712688
>Spheres of Power
Probably easily enough
>Spheres of Might
Little more difficult. A number of the feats skills changed in Starfinder, so Martial spheres with Associated Feats or Skills will need to be modified.

>>54712767
Why don't you tell me how you're breaking it then.

>>54712765
Whatever play it first before making judgements

>>54712835

So no, you don't have any actual citations.

>>54712846
My citation is that it's patently impossible, this isn't an extraordinary claim when you consider what the entire point of an infrared laser is - to make it impossible to just walk through it without being detected.

>>54712857
Just walk over it, duh.

>>54712857

Wouldn't that be like 'Literally any trap in D&D'? Traps existing in D&D hasn't made stealth pointless. You've just put 'Laser' in front of tripwire.

>>54712688
Why does no one care about Psionics i.e the only genuinely well done 3pp?

Are iteratives not really a thing in SF?

>>54712883
Tripwires are avoided by...woah, disabling them or just not stepping on them, as >>54712866. Not by fucking stealthing through them.

>>54712886
I love Aegis and I love Half-Giant, don't you ever say I don't care.

>>54712896

From what we've been told from the devs, weapon damage scales a LOT harder. So rather than several attacks you make a single large one. Autofire is for hitting multiple dudes.

>>54712896
They aren't a thing, but some classes get extra attacks at higher levels.
For example, Operative can make up to four attacks in a full-attack, all at the same -4 penalty, without ever increasing it.

>>54712908

So 'Stealth is just as much use as in D&D right now'? Good vs people, not so great vs traps?

I want to play in an Elven kill-squad campaign

>>54712926
Yes, with the caveat that most places of note should have things that can autobeat stealth without suits or something, like cams.

>>54712886
> genuinely well done 3pp?
I take this back, I mean the only genuinely well done new subsystem in PF. Legendary and Jolly stuff is legit for the most part too.

>>54712930
I want to play an Elven Icon Vidgamer who's part of the Elven SS, which wears Guy Fawkes masks.

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STAT THEM

>>54712942
No

>>54712942
No.

>>54712935

If an operative can hide in the middle of an open corridor with zero cover from a guard, I think he can do the same for the camera.

Hide in plain sight kinda fucks all the assumptions of what stealth can do.

>>54712913
Ah, I was curious because people were talking about the Operative's Trick Attack, but it seemed to only allow a single attack, which normally wouldn't be great in PF because you get more damage out of iteratives. Have people run the numbers for the multiple operative attacks? Would getting more attacks be better than getting the trick attack and the debilitation? I'm sure the debilitation would be helpful for allies.

>>54712935
There should be places where stealth is useless, but those will only be the absolute top end important places. It's easy to justify holes in security for most areas of most settings.

>>54712940
I want to call him a dork!

>>54712942
Drax would be a Soldier, Gamora would be an Operative, Quill would be an Envoy because he is a useless pile of shit, Rocket would be a Mechanic, and Groot would be Rockets drone.

>>54712966

Heck, even military places. I mean, there was a report a few years ago that several of america's missile silos had massive failures in security that could have let someone sneak in and those are nuke silos.

>>54712979
America is always the special case.

>>54712448
>what is "this is an abstraction and not a simulation"

Have you considered pulling your head out of your Pathfinder-focused ass and imagine that, perhaps, Starfinder runs on a different baseline assumption of how to give things various abilities? That rather than giving foes nearly-impossible-to-bypass special powers, they simplify it all into a basic "+25 Perception"?

>>54712987

Less a point about america and more 'Even the most important places can have serious gaps and issues'

>>54712987
America sucks, yes, but that one is more rule of large numbers than anything. When you have that many military bases, of course a few of them kinda suck.

>come at the game expecting to want a kasatha solarian or a vesk soldier
>all i really want is an android or lashunta mechanic

>>54713018
I mean, maybe?

>>54713000
>simplify what amounts to "Blindsight, sound-based" (a very concise and fairly accurate depiction of what's happening) to "perception+25"
>"simplify"
Are you literally braindead and saying "it can see you if it can bounce sound off you" is simply too much for your fucking peabrain to understand?

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the kasatha art is so fucking bad

>>54713055
FOUR
BOOBIES

>>54713050
No, I'm saying that since so far there's no evidence that you're not just talking out your ass, it's entirely possible (note I'm not saying guaranteed or likely, just possible) that Paizo themselves dumbed-down/simplied how the mechanics work. For all we know, it works off of action movie rules where the characters really would go "okay, I roll stealth, and this is how I do it" or "okay, I roll to attack and I know I hit him, so I'll describe how it all goes down".

>>54713093
Fucking everyone is talking out of their ass right now.

>>54713050

>Are you literally braindead and saying "it can see you if it can bounce sound off you" is simply too much for your fucking peabrain to understand?

And is 'Yes, someone can be good enough to sneak past that' too much for you? Operatives can literally hide, with no issues:

>In the middle of an empty corridor
>in the middle of daylight
>With the guard looking directly at them.

Hide In Plain Sight is a hell of a drug.

>>54713137
A significant amount of the "pro-stealth" posts are arguing from the angle of "don't judge based off information we don't know" faggot.

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So are we going to rewrite pathfinder's Elephant in the Room feat taxes to have backported Starfinder feats?

>>54713151
Hide in Plain Sight only works in dim light, doesn't it?

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I cannot believe I am actually having to make this comparison.

For a trick attacking operative (ghost) to be played in a 1st-level one-off game, from a purely mechanical perspective, would an ysoki or a halfling be more optimal?

Ysoki have truly awful racial features (unless it is common to be knocked prone or off-kilter), but they do have +2 Dexterity and +2 Intelligence, and a bonus to Stealth helps with trick attacking. Furthermore, darkvision can assist with sneaking around, and this one-off will focus on undeveloped areas.

Halflings have decidedly better racial features, including a +2 bonus to Stealth to assist with trick attacking, but +2 Charisma is not quite as useful as +2 Intelligence, particularly at 1st-level when an extra skill point means activating a class skill bonus for another +3 to a skill.

How did it come to this. Which would be the more mechanically optimal race under the above circumstances?

who the fuck thought "you have pockets" is a good racial feature

>>54713269
But le hamster xDDDDDD

>>54713173
No, because the games clearly run on very different mathematical assumptions.

I want to play an Android!

Where are the Aasimar and Tieflings in Starfinder?

When will leakpapi be back on?

>>54713173
The legacy races were able to leave the homeworld behind
Why can't you

>>54713290
Just port them over, elves look like they got dragged in wholesale so the same should go for them.

>>54713303
Not everyone wants to play "science" fantasy.

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>>54713284
Obviously, this is why you filter shit instead of backporting wholesale. Starfinder Weapon Focus, Toughness, or Fleet seem like logical enough things to backport, but "dude feat swim speed" or "get your BAB as energy resistance" are dumb ideas. Starfinder Spell Focus is probably likewise a terrible idea, unless you do it similarly to Weapon Focus where Fullcasters get less benefit than half or low casters.

>>54713303
Because I want to play both games for different reasons, and if I can blend elements from both to make a more enjoyable experience you bet your candied ass I will.

>>54713181
No, this is different. I don't know why people keep calling it HiPS when it has different restrictions and uses, honestly. It's a cloak. It has 10 rounds of charge and doesn't turn off when you come out of hiding, but it also doesn't provide you instant stealth, you still have to use a move action to take the "hide" action. You can hide anywhere, though. You don't need any shadow.

>>54713181
No, that's the point of "IN PLAIN SIGHT". They can hide in the middle of someone's lawn while someone's looking straight at them.

>>54713333
I mean that's just a Cloak of Invisibility, I don't see the issue here.

>>54713330
I want to play an Android modeled after a dragon meido!

>>54713353
It's specifically said not to act as invisibility, so if you don't take the hide action, people can still shoot you no problem without having to roll stealth. It's good, I'm not saying it isn't. But it does have a few limitations that calling it HiPS is likely to gloss over.

>>54713361
I really wanna play a redheaded Android sexpot with a flamethrower and a bad attitude!

>>54713361
And I want you to kill yourself, we don't always get what we want.

>>54713246

Might go with the rat. The traits may underperform, but the stats line up, and saving money on night vision goggles is probably handy in a one-off.

>>54713246
I'd go with the Halfling because specialization in one area is going to get you a bit further when you're with a squad than spreading yourself slightly thinner. Most classes have enough skill points to cover the one skill you missed, and making sure your stealth WORKS that much more consistently is better in my opinion than failing 2 checks by a hair.

any full pdf leaks yet?

>>54713449
No. When it happens, it'll go up in the trove, and you'll find it there. It has been said that it'll likely happen about a week after full release, so sit back and relax.

>>54713465
how about you suck my cock you stupid faggot. I don't want to sit anywhere or relax, piece of shit.

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>>54713494

Is it cool to LFG here? I'm looking for a new group to replace this one asap.

>>54713620
I mean, you can. You probably shouldn't because your game will be drowned in memes and lewdfags. But you can.

>>54713637
Well, things could be worse with my group. But they could be a lot better, too.

I'm too much of a robot to know anyone with groups I could join, so internet LFG it is

https://app.roll20.net/lfg/listing/83277/the-fiends-and-intrigues-of-house-karvane (closes in a week)
https://app.roll20.net/lfg/listing/85043/bones-and-bed-shackles (closes in two weeks)
https://app.roll20.net/lfg/listing/85418/mint-rebels-double-treason (closes in two weeks)

What games do you intend to apply to, /pfg/? Do you have any concepts on your mind?

>>54713668
Trying to join a group? I think there's a post with the 3 currently recruiting games higher up. Basically post your character idea with backstory and shit, and make an effort to contact the GM about how your character could be improved or adjusted to better suit the campaign. They really like that shit.

>>54713637
Memes aside, so long as he doesn't explicitly call the game lewd he should be fine. Certain thirstlords aside I'm pretty sure everyone here can keep it in their pants during an actual game. Assuming the game isn't explicitly for whipping it out like all the current lfgs are.

People have mentioned that we have both First Contact as well as the pregens, but I don't see the pregens anywhere. Anyone got a link?

>>54713691
20PB is shit.

>>54713765
Anything below 50PB is shit. Only Kawase should be allowed to run games.

>>54713691
None the first two look like shit, and I'm not interested in Hell's Rebels. Chargen and GM seem cool though.

>>54713068
I wanna play one now

Is starfinder out yet?
What is taking so fucking long?

>>54713905
Try and read the threads before you come in to shitpost

>>54713905
Comes out on the 17th

So whats the best mystic subclass im too lazy to read

>>54713691
>Discord lewdster's masturbation fantasy
>Obvious bamboozle
>ANOTHER HR game
I think I'll pass on this round of flaming garbage.

>>54713993
Overlord. Mindrape funsies.

>>54713996
HR?

>>54714021
Hell's Rebels

>>54714027
Ah, appreciated.

So I'm a new DM and I'm having difficulty utilizing vampires. I definitely want to make them a menacing threat for the party but they're only level 3 and vampires are crazy tough. I'm also unsure how to roleplay them. A roving band of bloodmurderers sounds lame. Help me out, /tg/?

>>54714092
>but they're only level 3 and vampires are crazy tough
Look into Lords of the Night. It has a far more manageable vampire template.

how come no game has decent rape mechanics?

>>54714107
>decent rape mechanics
Never change /tg/

>>54714092
Have the Vampire be some kind of aristocrat, however his position prevents him from dealing with the party directly, so instead ave them deal with funded bandit groups or other likewise wicked groups that are being funded by him, and have them try to find a way to implicate him

>>54714107
there is always fatal

>>54714136
He said decent, not majestic

Huh, I just noticed that blindsense in Starfinder isn't an instant "nope you can't stealth anymore".
It's just "visual penalties like invisibility don't apply anymore", but the skill itself still works just fine against creatures with blindsense.

>>54714194
Where are you seeing that? Was that in the section about senses? The conversion segment says they function essentially the same, but notes to look on page 260. Are you going off the shirren page?

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Where's the exoskeleton page for starfinder?

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>>54714246
Shirren race entry.

>Playing an AP
>CR 6 encounter has a monster with 200+ HPs and who deals 20+ per attack
Is this normal?

>>54714258
>3DPD

>>54714260
Hmm. Yeah, I'm gonna wait until I see page 260 before calling it, since that feel like more of a snippet instead of the full description of the ability, but it does look to work differently. So much for "essentially the same."

>>54712974
>Gamora would be an Operative
I hate how much the fucked comic Gamorra.

>>54714283
Did you accidentally a word?

>>54714261
There might be a way around it or unseen weakness it has. There might even have been a weapon or piece of gear you guys were supposed to get that would help

>>54714291
yeah, up

>>54714261
It's definitely on the beefier side of CR 6 but not out of the question, unless it also has spells or bullshit abilities

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>ywn profess your love for one of your teammates in the bloody, sweaty aftermath of battle
Why even live?

>>54714355
Dunno, we like to explore and search a lot which makes missions that aren't time limited take too long, and we found nothing relevant, we eventually won, but took the cleric and the paladin healing the later (one with spells other with fey foundling and LoHs) tanking and the rest hasted, prayed, enlarged and bull's strenghtened (the ones who were in melee) attacking the monster and the Paladin ended at 0-3 Hps more than once. We burn all our resources in that combat.

>>54714394
To enact that idea.
To an extent, I may or may not have already done so

>>54714394
I don't play with people that would be fond of that idea.

>>54712094
I wanna make a sharpshootin' elf that don't truck with no offworlders, but then she gets thrust into a damn space ruckus with some corrupt mine companymen, and has to join a posse of suspicious offworlder desperados and rough riders to put a stop to 'em.

>>54714394
Why the fuck have they even build Harsk around crossbows when he never uses the damned thing!?

>>54714436
Really? Tell us who's the lucky woman to get your fond declaration of love!

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whoever made the mega.nz was a chump that missed a bunch of pages

>>54714565
His secret lover. And if I blabbed who she was, it wouldn't be much of a secret, now would it?

>>54714260
Shirren are humanoids? wtf?

>>54714541
A weapon so shit that a character built around using it fares better with his shitty backup weapon.

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>>54714663

>>54714637

then upload the pages dingus

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>>54714655
Is it one of the local meme games?!

>>54714768
they evolved

>>54714827
The Haan? I don't think they did. That's the only image available for them, and their entry in First Contact doesn't say they evolved. They just kinda look like giant insects. Unless I missed a different mention of them.

>>54714816
Depends on how you define "local", "meme", and "game." But I'm not about to betray their confidence.

>>54714915
I define a local meme game as a campaign that has recruited from here and either regularly or semi-regularly discusses the happenings they get into!

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From Mark Seifter:
>Ghost was not supposed to get a +4. QuidEst is correct that the +4 is to make up for not using a Dex-based skill, so that Ghosts wouldn't be better than every other choice, but it looks like an extraneous +4 slipped into ghosts (this is something that I noticed at Paizocon because the pregen is a ghost).
Also lel at pic related.

>>54714946
Skill Focus doesn't give a typed bonus, Mashallah.
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/general-feats/skill-focus-final/
http://www.archivesofnethys.com/FeatDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Skill%20Focus

>>54714961
Starfinder, m8.
Different games.
Look at the correct game before shitposting.

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>>54714915
You got us nervous now, boy.

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>>54714961
>>54714963
More specifically, look here.

>>54714979
Why do you keep posting doggos from snuff vids?

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>>54714946
>already jobbing this hard

>>54714942
In that case yes.

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>>54714946
Ay where the fuck was that boyim who was talking about how Mark was in charge of the math so just trust him???

>>54714915
I guess you could call it one.

>>54714979
No worries. Not going to say any more on the matter. I might leak clues if I did.

>>54715067
They really fucked up on their checks. I noticed that it refers to Expertise Talents being on 269-270 when they start at 64. I'm sure there're tons of mistakes that'll cause trouble for months.

>>54715153
Meant to quote >>54714942 instead of myself.

>>54714260
I wonder what their opinion on tubes is.

WDYT about removing Themes entirely, and padding the point buy for the +attribute bonus? That's basically all themes are, +1 to primary stat, some skills I'll never use, a level 20 feature I'll never reach.

>>54715183
The Themes are actually pretty fucking neat. I love the things they give.

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>>54715153
>>54715132
Tell us, tell us! TELL US!

>>54715183
I love Themes, they're one of the greatest things to come out of Starfinder.

>>54715183
i mean I doubt it'd hurt to ditch them, but why?

>>54715211
It's probably just Sappy or Slow taunting us with their forced memes.

>>54714946
Got a link to that thread?

>>54715275
http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2ui01?Starfinder-Early-Impressions

>>54715230
But why would it be? They've already pulled their big reveal and bought into the forced memes. This must be some other meme-game shitter.

>>54715230
It's a secret relationship, anon. Sappy and Slow already hooked their characters up.

Soldier or Operative for a Sharpshootin' elf?

>>54710301
I love it!

The new ability score system in Starfinder I feel is objectively better than the one used for Pathfinder, allowing even races with a penalty in the primary score of a class to feasibly play it on 10pb.

It kind of bothers me though that since it's a 1-1 ratio of points to score, we probably won't see many rounded ability scores among characters no matter how high a point buy is offered. There's no dropping an 18 to a 17 so that you can raise two 10s to 12s, the system really encourages going hard.

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So, Absolam Station is basically just the Island City of Absolam, lifted up and turned into a space station, right?

Do you think Nex's funtower was lifted with it, or was that thing left back on Golarion?

>>54715485
Operative is better for the tough, rough and resourceful survivor type, which your Elf cowgirl sounds like.

>>54715644
Thought so. I'm getting pretty excited.

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>Mindkiller
>at-will Phantasmal Killer
Neat desu.

>>54715672
Figure out a theme for her?

>>54715690
>Mindbreaker
>Iomedea
They aren't even trying to hide it anymore.

>>54715690
That's seems insane.

Hey Leakanon if you're still here does Phantasmal Killer still exist as a spell? And if so what level?

>>54715731
LAWFUL GOOD LAWFUL GOOD

>>54712765
Haven't looked at the book yet waiting to get an actual leaked PDF instead of just image files of pages, easier to read with my friends. What's bad about an odd ability score?

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>>54715690
>Paizo
>Casters get stupid shit

>>54715760
Ability boosts are +2 if your ability score is 16 or lower or +1 if your ability score is 17 or higher.
Therefore, both 16 and 17 are boosted to 18, making a 17 utterly worthless and cancerous.

>>54715690

Haha what?

>>54713691

> veiled lewd
> lewd
> voiced game with people from here

Think I'll pass on the current lot. Maybe someone will put up a standard fantasy sort of deal soon.

>>54715864
Intrigue isn't lewd, though.

>>54715864
I'm dying to play a game with a 100% focus on adventuring instead of the ole 20% adventuring 80% lewd that the games I've had the misfortune of joining seem to revolve around.

>>54715869

The very first post in the FAQ outlines that lewd is a game element. Wrapping it with some context (the intrigue) is good and all, but doesn't change that.

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>>54713691

>>54715922
>lewd is a game element
A minor and avoidable one.

>>54712266
According to one of the devs on the forums, the Ghost isn't supposed to get the +4.

>>54712513

He did.

>>54712362
>Stealth never comes into the equation.
The tech isn't the only thing you'll need to sneak past, though. Your Mechanic may have disabled the sensors and cameras, but there are still the actual security personnel to sneak past, not to mention the possibility of things like shielded cameras that can't be hacked wirelessly.

>>54715978
Well, you're probably looking at a target of 9, then. And as soon as you hit 7, you can take 10 on the skill, so it's really just a formality regardless.

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I need help /pfg/.
I am starting a PF campaign soon where the players are villains or at least against the law in some way. One of my characters will have three henchmen, what do you think their races should be?

He is a lowly Dwarf Wizard who holds very little status, so I was thinking even less respectable races. I want one guy who will be the muscle, maybe a Gnoll? The other two should be Small races, might be thinking about a rancid Ratfolk.
Having a hard time thinking of the last one, assistance bitte?

Pic unrelated.

>>54713246
>Ysoki have truly awful racial features
Did you not see the part about the cheek pouches?

>>54716180
Sarcasm?

>>54716168
>dwarf wizard

>>54716198
What's wrong with a Dwarf Wizard?

>>54716180
Are cheek pouches the new Charmed Life?

>>54715691
I need to sit down and do that tonight. I've been at a sleepover since yesterday, so I was away from my computer!

>>54716230
No racial bonus to intelligence.

Starfinder ability scores. 16 to get extra points and take advantage of the low score bonuses, finishing at 20 in your average to-15 campaign? Or 18 to start out with an extra +1 on checks, opening up 22 at level 20?

>>54716295
>implying level 20 play exists outside of memes

>>54716269
>At a sleepover

You need to be 18+ to use 4chan.

>>54716198
>Sarcasm?
Kinda? On the one hand, it's not a useful racial ability at all. On the other, it's absolutely adorable. So I guess it really depends on what's more important to you as a player.

>>54716280
We're trying to roleplay, not min-max and rollplay.

I've noticed no one in /pfg/ is ever interested in actual roleplaying, you'd rather talk about kitsune fur and how to break the game..

>>54716280
So? You're still a fucking Wizard.

>>54715922
It's not as much a "game element" as it is "realism", though. It's completely realistic that you'd be able to charm your way through social situations just as well as you'd be able to smash your way through them, after all. A game that deliberately disables this option is unrealistic.

>>54716322
>stormwind fallacy
Okay m8, then why ask us what your minions should be, it should be whatever suits your fancy right?

>>54716295
I'm a minmaxing piece of shit, so I'll probably go 18. 16 is probably better for a more well-rounded character.

>>54716322
>Stormwind Fallacy
>In Anno Domini 2017

>>54716358
>44:46
>>>54716359
>44:45
>>54716360
>44:47
What the fuck

>>54712332
>We're assuming Paizo isn't completely fucking retarded.

But they are completely fucking retarded.

>>54716370
Have you ever been so skilled?

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>>54716370
Fucking wizards. Barely start talking about their charop and they get to messing up reality already.

>>54716312
Why the fuck couldn't it have been both adorable and actually useful?

>>54716402
You're asking a lot from Paizo here.

>>54716358
>>54716360
Seems like you neckbeards took offense. Just leave it, it's OK. I don't want your help anymore.

>>54716311
Adults can have sleepovers, silly. I'm probably older than you.

>>54716427
>one guy throwing a fit is the entire thread
:thinking:

>>54716427
Wow, you sound like an edgy dumbass.

I was even going to say that Dwarf Wizard isn't even that bad. Just stuff an 18 into intelligence and then do whatever the fuck you want, but from your attitude I bet you play core only and roll for stats.

What do you think about rope trick? Isn't it a bit too low in the spell list? I don't have many experience with it but it seems like the kind of utility spell that can break a campaign by making resting absolutely trivial. I'm also sure that there are many ways to abuse it.

Someone link all the currently recruiting games. I finally have some time to make a bunch of characters.

>>54716444
>Adults can have sleepovers,
They can, but at least call them what they are.

Orgies.

>>54716480
ctrl+f roll20, m8. If you don't find it, go back a thread. Really simple stuff.

==/pfg/ RotJR era game statuses

Rise of the Jade Regent [RUNNING: TWO GAMES]
>Fluffy Tail 1 [DEAD]
>Fluffy Tail 2 [DEAD]
>Helnar [RETIRED]
>The Amber Fields of Molthune [DEAD (1 session)]
>Misadventures of a Lazy Princess [DEAD]
/pfg/ Hell's Vengeance (Argentum ver) [RUNNING]
>Hell's Vengeance B [DEAD (3 sessions)]
>Evil Lewd Game [RETIRED]
Of Dragons and Yet More Dragons [RUNNING]
Rise of the Jade Regent: PbP [RUNNING: GAME 1] [DEAD: GAME 2 (some sessions)]
The Pendragon Institute [RUNNING: TWO GAMES]
>The Sleeping Goddess [DEAD]
>The Wrath of the Righteous [DEAD]
Wrath of the Raunchy [RUNNING]
Romance of the Righteous Kingdom [RUNNING]
>Sky Pirates [DEAD]
Bathe Yourself in Blood [RUNNING]
Volorexis: Streets of Cantha [=COMPLETE=]
>Sultanas and Raisins [DEAD]
Of Dragons and Men... and more Dragons [RUNNING]
Curse of the Lazy Throne [RUNNING]
Legends of Dragonsfjord [RUNNING]
>Taldor Ascendant [DEAD]
Legacy of Blood and Flame [RUNNING]
>The Celestial Tournament [DEAD]
The Great Bamboozling [RUNNING]
Shardwalkers [RUNNING: TWO GAMES]
Hell's Rebels: Literally Can't Even Edition [RUNNING: TWO GAMES]
Puella Librum Daemonium [RUNNING]
>A Generic Pathfinder Adventure (Eberron E8) [DEAD (1 session)]
Wild Weird West [RUNNING]
Blingmaker [RUNNING]
>Blood in the Fangwood [DEAD]
Rhusae [RUNNING]
Overlewd [RUNNING: TWO GAMES]
Dimensional Ark Abyssia [STARTING?]
>Raining Oil and Blood [DEAD]
>Mighty Quest for Epic Loot [???]
>Trouser Serpent's Skull [DEAD]
Ironfang Invasion [RUNNING]
>Pilgrimage to the Demonlands [DEAD]
Ensoulment of the Flower Court [RUNNING]

(1/2)

>>54716401
Rincewind reference?

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>>54716401
>Temporal Regression
Welcome to the True Man's World

>>54716506
Chronicles of the Golden Chalice [RUNNING]
>Essentia: Forgotten Home [DEAD/REBOOTED]
Essentia: Our Last Days [STARTING]
>Hells Saboteurs [DEAD]
Journey to the West [RUNNING]
>Depths of Darkness [DEAD]
Nodachi of the Righteous [RUNNING]
Volo: Fluffy Tails 9 [RUNNING]
A Ruse by Any Other Name [RECRUITING]
>Iron Gods [DEAD]
>Gestalt Toad Meme Game [DEAD]
King's Gambit [RUNNING]
>From the Other End of Heaven [DEAD]
>You're the Village Now [DEAD]
Dominions of Vice: An Osirion Tale [RUNNING]
>Carnal Crown [DEAD]
The Fiends and Intrigues of House Karvane [RECRUITING]
Bones and Bedshackles [RECRUITING]
Mint Rebels: Double Treason [RECRUITING]


Dead: 25
Retired (dead but ran for a while): 2
Active: 32
Recruiting: 4
Starting soon: 2
Completed: 1

>>54716312
Why the fuck couldn't it have been both adorable and actually useful?>>54716506
>Ensoulment of the Flower Court [RUNNING]
GREENTEXTS
PLS

>>54716528
wat the

>>54716461
What I get pissy about is that I did not start discussing how to play or build the character. It's not even my character. I am the DM and I am creating some random ass henchmen for my player.

Now excuse me if my reaction seems to have been overracted, but every time I have posted in these threads some faggot starts complaining that the character is not optimal or that I should use another race.

>>54716481
That's lewd, Anon

>>54716506
>The Great Bamboozling [RUNNING]
kek

>>54716542
Fair.

Also in terms of weaksauce minions, consider Goblins(which a Dwarf should feel shame and embarrassment for relying on) or Kobolds(whom a dwarf could probably begrudgingly learn to respect on some level)

>>54711907
Currently compiling all the Starfinder images so far into a pdf, how do I get this to you guys without getting myself in trouble?

>>54716527
You forgot
>Essentia: The Last Days [RUNNING]

>>54716506
>>54716527
>the one completed game is the one DHB was in
>the game farthest along its AP is the one DHB is in

I don't understand, he's supposed to ruin games.

>>54716651
Only Witchhunter believes so, and even then its all lies and delusions.

Don't believe in the witch hunter's lies, for he is a salty asshole whop has no other purpose in his life outside of his raging hateboner and desire to hatefuck DHB

>>54716580
Goblins are good and will create lots of roleplaying opportunities! That's a great idea, thanks

how do you guys feel about archer enemies
is it unfair to throw optimized archers as enemies
+5 composite bows and all

>>54716695
>witch hunter and DHB hatefuck
I'd read the logs.

>>54716506
Rhusae is dead.

>>54715928
>they mentioned lewd
it's gonna be nothing but big-titted futa succubi and fluffy plant-trap sentient puppies you need to force your dick into for +4 to all Ability Scores for the big boss battle with the mindless undead minotaur paragon, anon.

Everybody knows maybe lewd could maybe happen in a heavily-social game if the DM wants to trade taint pictures with you. But a game that isn't about jacking off will not mention it, or if it's classy, will explicitly reference a fade-to-black policy.

Saying "maybe there's lewd" is saying "I play one-handed with my Bad Dragon in, but I'm hoping to meet a cute gamer girl who doesn't know what's up yet."

>>54716717
Depends on level, battlefield, and party comp?

>>54716695
Aahn~ DHB!

>>54716737
no cover for party
balanced party

>>54716759
Do they have a way to reach them? Do they have a caster capable of wind wall or tiny hut? Take their sheets and run a few simulations to see how likely they are to make it.

>>54716603
You could ask in the pdf share thread. Or upload it to sendspace, then have someone mega it? I'm sorry if these aren't helpful.

>>54716780
no wind walls or magic made cover

>>54716730
>>54716730
>>54716730
>>54716730

I have no cares in the world.