What is her tax policy?

>>54711109
She doesn't have one because selmy rules for her
She also seems to be shaping up into a terrible ruler
#teamyounggriff all the way

>>54711251
She would interfere with him when there is someone pulling her heartstrings.

>>54711109

YAAAASSSSS QUEEEEEN SLAAAAY doesn't need one. She will usher in an era of such progressiveness that everyone will donate whatever is needed. Take that, patriarchy!

>>54711109

I think what people miss about that GRRM quote is that it isn't just sperging about nonsense that totally misses the point of the story. It's worse. GRRM's critique of Tolkien is "Why did you write a story informed by your beliefs when you should have wrote a story blatantly shilling my beliefs instead?"

When you compare their life experiences it gets even worse.

>>54711109
To tax as much plot armour as she can possibly get.

Why are all the targs so shit?
The only reason they held onto their rule so long is because loldragons

>>54711795
Egg is pretty neat, Aemon is alright, along with sorcerer targ. Everyone else is kinda just there.

>>54711109
A tax on the mention of feces or sex. She'll be richer than Croesus in like 6 weeks tops.

>>54711815
Egg is only good because of Dunk. He would have been a little shit otherwise.

>>54711596
you're projecting so hard into a quote that wasn't ever even meant as a critique, but as a simple distinction between their works. It just shows you can't get over your hateboner for the fatman and are willing to believe anything if it supports your point of view.

>>54711486

Twentieth Century Motor Company

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>>54711109
Daily reminder-
Tax humans the least
Tax all non-humans that live too long whom amass shitloads of wealth, status and social prestige that interferes with your government
Tax the wizard for his magical waste produced
Be lenient with religion, but make the prime cities deity a deity of commerce, rulershiper and also tax
By being lenient with religion, you can let less than savoury churches into your city, but make them taxable by the tax-god of taxes if they want their faith to gain traction
Use the wizard to add shit to the city, country and kingdom only the wizard can put in using taxes
Use the rest on public projects and working to get rid of those awful shithole districts that are always shitholes for some reason, find ways to raise the worth of job positions that earn so little you wonder why they even are made to pay tax in the first place
Allow choice extraplanar and outsiders citizenship, as long as you tax them for being as such
Build and start a hydra farm to support a Dragon who earns revenue via enforcing your taxes, kingship and rulership, Dragons can NEVER resist the taste of fucking Hydra- And you get more longevity races to tax the fuck out of as the Dragon bones everything in your city later on
Build and support a complex dungeons for the dragons to inhibit, leaking info to the thieves guild for idiots to raid the dragons but in truth it's a death trap, so when they die, the sewer workers sort the corpses out, and then you sell them to 2e Anatomist Necromancers looking to further their craft who you hire and hide in the Clerichood to further medicine techniques to keep yourself healthy and by extension, your people.

Use Dragons and their lineage to capture political heads and leaders of other countries in false flags that look like isolated incidents and easily annex competition, and absorv countries into a greater mass.

Allow Kobolds citizenship, use them to forge strong spy networks and mining enterprise.

>>54715889
Now that the hardworking bolds' are getting you sweet gems, and rare metals, you can let up on the Dwarves fucking trade prices and don't have to rely on them anymore, so when the Bolds make it to the Underdark, you send the Dragons in to displace Drow and Underdark denizen communities forcing them on the Dwarves so they get fucked, and the best part is that this cannot be traced back to you because Bold's always cover up their mining-work when they finish, making the attacks look like the Average murderdrow attacks.

Then I legalize prostitution, using my already exotic selection of dragon-breeds and extraplanar creatures to set up a gambling house/house of ill repute, and use the Dragons I set on the Drow to add them to the roster of whores on the list, people flocking from all around for sweet-colonized Obsidian pussy, eventually granting me a neat supply of Half-drow who I can force on the Underdark to further the expanse of my kindgdom, eventually setting up a network of tunnels that lead to my conquered by proxy vassalled kingdoms, securing a Trade routes using the Underdark.

Security of Trade routes will be maintained by Dragons and their kin, but to prevent uprisi gthrough Draconic Pride, I keep them fattened on an additional supply of Dugneonbred monsters maintained via the Dungeonmasters of the underground complexes that support that Dragons and their hoards as well as aspiring spellcaster of various professions, eventually, through the prostituted Drow, I get a population ready and suitored to navigating the Underdark routes and tunnels mined out, and eventually move on to aquiring Deep Dragons in the mix, granting me a more unified cultural mix.

>>54711109
A 100% tax of all the grain in Highgarden. Dragons as tax collectors. Grain spent as fuel for the biggest pyre of the week.

>>54716192
Based Florent poster.

>>54716192
You would starve the entire continent
Well besides the vale

>>54716209

Around Florents
Evil Portents

>>54711109
Fucking seriously, HBO?
http://i.4cdn.org/wsg/1501866134997.webm

>>54716929
Sullies on the wire!

>>54716929

>when you spend so much money on the CGI dragon that you can't spare any for a fan to make Danerys' hair move

>>54711109
Give me all your shit so i can give it to anyone who emotionally compromises me. This literally happens in the books

How can people survive a winter of fucking years except for the far south anyway

>>54717297
They store up a shit ton of food and wait it out in lord halls
That's the only plausible explanation i can think of

>>54711109
>posting about tax policy every day
What a sorry life you live.

>>54711109
Shit fucking bait thread, not even /tg/ related.

>>>>>/lit/

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>>54717694

>>54711596
>When you compare their life experiences it gets even worse.

I would like to know more

>>54717757
Reminder that it's not plot armor if you claim that the character is just that smart.

>>54717914
Same as this guy, explain anon.
What you talking about?
Is it that Tolkein was in the war and a based motherfucker while GRR has grown old in a time of peace and gained a number of chins doing so?

Isn't the whole point of Daney's character the fact that she doesn't have one. The only real experience she has had with leadership is through the Dothraki, who's society isn't even close to the complexity of a place like Westeros. The best she could hope for is dying on the throne of old age using the fear of her conquest to keep the lords under her in check while the land around her falls apart due to her lack of any real economic or political skill.

>>54717942
Show littlefinger is fucking dumb
Book littlefinger has some semi-balance of a plan going on

>>54718018
She would most likely get assainated a few months in

>>54718008
Not just Tolkein's wartime experience but his tenure as a professor of linguistics at an Oxford College as well.

His work was very important in reviving interest in Anglo-Saxon literature which wasn't seen as historiographically significant before Tolkien and he was one of the earlier translators of surviving Anglo-Saxon texts.

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>>54715889
>Allow Kobolds citizenship

Give Kobalds rights? Preposterous! You might as well allow the Drow to live among us!

I've always liked the idea of tax farmers. Just cash in up front, let the speculators try and get their money from the riffraff.

>>54718301
did you just want an excuse to post that?

>>54717487
They also have greenhouses.

>>54717757
>>54718041
>I think that the main characters of the series are Littlefinger and Varys, and they're playing the game of thrones against each other, because their philosophies are opposed, and everybody is, like, a piece they use
Things showfags say

>>54711251
No more dragons, they're all idiots.

>>54711109
She won't have one, bitch is going to end up like Alexander the great, dies for fucking her gay lover or her brother that has wildling sifilis. The whore has big lizards that spit fire, that is all her ability. Also she has a moral compas not fit for a ruler, hang her before she destroys food and infrastructure just to die from sifilis and reverse everything back before she invaded.

>>54712954
>a quote that wasn't ever even meant as a critique, but as a simple distinction between their works

Haha, no, it's very clearly a criticism.

>Ruling is hard. This was maybe my answer to Tolkien, whom, as much as I admire him, I do quibble with. Lord of the Rings had a very medieval philosophy: that if the king was a good man, the land would prosper. We look at real history and it’s not that simple. Tolkien can say that Aragorn became king and reigned for a hundred years, and he was wise and good. But Tolkien doesn’t ask the question: What was Aragorn’s tax policy?

>The war that Tolkien wrote about was a war for the fate of civilization and the future of humanity, and that’s become the template. I’m not sure that it’s a good template, though. The Tolkien model led generations of fantasy writers to produce these endless series of dark lords and their evil minions who are all very ugly and wear black clothes. But the vast majority of wars throughout history are not like that.

In both instances he says, essentially, that there is something wrong in Tolkien's works that he has corrected. Something he has quibbles with. Something that is not "a good template."

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>>54718563
>sifilis

Are you actually retarded?

>>54717694
ASOIAF is, and always was, /tg/.

>>54718331
Shut up! This is my time!

>>54718658
The only critic of Tolkien that was right is Moorcock. Martin stole a lot of his shit from Moorcock, only thing he did was add more in depth feudal system and detailed food better, fuck that guy.

>>54718694
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syphilis
Your language is the one retarded.
Hurr durr anglo-saxon change language but not grammar, hurr durr we so special, hurr durr.

>>54718658
Frankly, I feel the problem is more due to people ripping off Tolkien badly, rather than problems intrinsic to Tolkien himself.

Aegon was fucking shit
>i know
>lets conqur an entire continent full of people with vastly different cultures who all hate each other
>what can go wrong :^)

>>54718884
>current year
>hurr durr
Stop anytime

>>54718658
But that'd be criticism of something subjective. Martins simply favors realistic storytelling over tolkiens fairytale one and regrets that the latter one has become the norm

>>54718890
What I want to know is, how the fuck does Martin expect a feudal nation that spans an entire continent to even remotely function, on a logistical level? In a world where winters can last years.

>>54718890
Well, what exactly did go wrong? It's not like the War of the Five Kings is any worse than what happened in the time of independent seven kingdoms.

>>54718858
Really?
I found Moorcock's infamous essay to be full of subjective rambling, taking offense at values he didn't hold being promoted and bitterness.

>>54718910
hurr durr anglo-saxon is a dum dum
Because current year means I can't be retarded, to hell with you and your weird cutsoms.

>>54718971
He was rambling because people were just copying Tolkein, he acknowleges him as the father of fantasy and that it is impossible not to steal from him but the same damn thing over and over again gets retarded, that is what he wanted to say. Well he had unique shit and they promoted Tolkein clones because they knew market would want them 100%.

>>54718933
The region controlled by the Iron Throne is too massive for it to handle on any realistic level, and held together by what was initially terror of their dragons followed by simple inertia after the dragons died out. Robert's Rebellion proved how tenuous a single monarch's grasp over an entire continent can be, and after exposing the Targaryen Dynasty as a paper tiger he then proceeded to pretend that everything was actually fine.

Balon's rebellion failed largely because everyone on the mainlands fucking hates the Ironborn, and were regarded as a common enemy.

>>54719034
What's funny is the show has slipped into a lot of the Tolkien-esque tropes Martin plays with and subverts.

>>54719102
Because the tropes work with the normies. I'm okay with the dumbed down story, but some stuff could be more realistic. Let's say the way people respond to stupid plans that are logical. How people can teleport, how it takes 1 day for information to cross the neck, how women with fancy noble swords and a hore dressed as a boy walk the countryside with no one noticing, and there is more shit I won't add to the list. I don't care it has become plants vs zombies, what I do mind is how unrealistic it has become.

>>54719102
You're acting like the books won't do the same. The transition to a high fantasy story has been well-foreshadowed.

>>54717487
If all popluation goes inside the castles it explains why castles are o fucking huge,

>>54719355
^That.
Most of Castles shown in the sow other than I don't know Moat are too big to be hed by a small force, and that is a point of a castle. You can man it with 300-400 people and it can fend off 5k-6k with ease.

>>54718658

> The Tolkien model led generations of fantasy writers to produce these endless series of dark lords and their evil minions who are all very ugly and wear black clothes. But the vast majority of wars throughout history are not like that.

I would argue that even modern wars are. Members of ISIS are ugly and wear mostly black.

>>54719431
Because they were created by CIA operatives who are Tolkien fans.

>>54719454

Nah, it's just how the Middle East is. The Middle East has always been a toilet on fire, and it'd remain a toilet on fire until the end of time. It's basically where real-life orcs and the hordes of darkness come from.

>>54718858
>>54718971
Moorcock is a moron jealous professionally of another man's success.

http://www.curtisweyant.com/blog/epic-pooh-pooh/

>>54718658
I don't think the criticism itself is stupid, I just don't think GRRM realizes that there's a deliberate element of myth and legend to Lord of the Rings. Of course Aragon is a flawless king, because that's the way these sort of legends work, and LotR is a synthetic legend.

He's right to complain that other fantasy authors have mindlessly aped this without - apparently - understanding what sort of thing they're imitating.

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>>54718884
>spell word wrong
>hurr it's the language's fault!

Please continue.

>>54718858
I feel like both Moorcock and Martin completely misunderstand Tolkien.

Moorcock's unfocused, incoherent essay on Tolkien is a wonder of butthurt, mostly just him whining about Tolkien's values being wrong. Martin on the other hand simply doesn't comprehend that you can have a good fantasy story that is more mythological in nature, where everything isn't as focused on being grim and gritty.

>>54719955

They do.

Can't speak for Moorcock, but as for Martin?

Yeah.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAAp_luluo0

(I posted this somewhere else, but I...well, I rather like it. hopefully you guys will too, even though you lot have probably already seen it)

>>54720196
Yeah, that's a completely inaccurate portayal of GRRM.

>>54720208
Would this be better
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QmKhGqWcJGY

>>54718703
Horseshit. Games based on ASOIAF are /tg/. ASOIAF itself is either /lit/ or /tv/ depending on whether you're a patrician or a plebeian.

Show me how the books or TV show have anything to do with the phrase 'traditional games' you nincompoop.

>>54719843
To be fair, English has adopted words from so many languages, has so many rules and exceptions to them, that it would almost be fair to consider it a creole language, and so mispelling words isn't surprising.

>>54720255
>ASOIAF
>/lit/
Outed yourself as a redditor. /lit/ doesn't like ASOIAF, they don't like fantasy, shit, they don't even like books. The only thing they do is measure dicks about who read this obscure roman writer, in the original.

>>54720240
Same dude as >>54720196

Thanks for having my back,m8

>>54720208
It kinda is.

>everybody listen to meeeee while I rage about rape being underrepresented in fiction because it's my fetish!

>>54720449
I've honestly started calling the fourth book "A Feast of Pubes"

Because man oh man, does this git seem to like his pubic hair, and depictions thereof

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Do it again Kingslayer!

>>54720766
Reminder that dany will magically swoop in on her dragons snd save jon snow and friends from the white walkers and then she has sex with jon snow on a boat

Also ut would have been great if jamie killed drogon

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>>54720449

>>54719474

The middle east is less Tolkien and more Mad Max LARP

>>54718658
And GRRM writes about wars where absolutely everyone is the worst kind of edgy cunt imaginable when they weren't like that either.

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>>54721650
Well I mean, he was, or is, a big ol' anti-war peacenik guy, so I mean, anyone who willingly serves in the military is a murderous psychopath who likes to cut up cunts and rape children.

...though, for a dude who is against that, he seems to wallow in it quite a bit.

Idk, I've always disliked the guy both on a personal and literary level. I actually read the first 4 of his books just so that my criticisms would, y'know, hold some water. His writing has always struck me as GM-y or DM-y: he introduces characters, some of which are kind of interesting or neat, and then when he finds that he's stumped on how to use them, they either fade into the background, are killed offscreen, or both. (I remember this being the case for one of the Gold Cloaks, some dude with an iron hand who kind of just...went out, got into a skirmish and got killed).

Also, he has threatened to smash Westeros to bits with the big ass comet that is never portrayed in the show, but was in the books. I believe he said that "If he was really forced he would have it (the comet) hit the world"

Like, if that isn't "Rocks Fall; Everyone Dies", then I don't know what is.

>>54721793
The comet thing was probably a joke for or a warning of what would happen if he needed to end the series before he died

The stroy is fairly anti-war,but the way he portrays soldiers is really shitty

At least he also portrays peasents just as shitty as nobles(example,riot of kingslanding)

>>54721861
>The stroy is fairly anti-war,but the way he portrays soldiers is really shitty
>At least he also portrays peasents just as shitty as nobles(example,riot of kingslanding)


You know, I was wondering about that. Is it because the rather cliche, though often needed "Time of Heroes" part of his setting is over, and the time when the books are set is when the world needs heroes again?

I was thinking of this when I was making my own DnD setting: was going to have it kind of crappy and messed up, with a lot of bad guys, but not because everything is shit, but because now it's the time for the PCs to get up and fix shit, either partially or fully.

Do you think he had, or has, something similar in mind?

>>54722100
That's one of the major themes
Old shit is coming back
King of the north
Magic
Iron kings
White walkers
Wargs
Dragons
Heroes are most likely making a comeback

>>54719568
This. When you're writing a heroic epic, it's fine to hand wave some of the baggage that would otherwise make the setting more realistic. If GRRM wants to write something grittier and less romantic than Tolkien, that's fine, but he's not "improving" on fantasy, he's writing a different kind altogether. (You can like one style or the other better - the point is that they're separate branches.)

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>>54721861

The way he portrays medieval soldiers is fairly accurate. Knights were mostly hooligans sponsored by kings and nobles to enforce their will.

What, did you think they were noblebright shining paragons of nobility performing heroic acts of derring do? That's all romanticized nonsense from literature and stage drama starting in the 17th century.

>>54722345
>starting in the 17th century.
It was already ingrained and popular in the 14th and 13th centuries senpai.

>>54722345
go to bed, Martin

>>54718858
Moorcock to me always sounded like the sort of 'liberal elite' type, especially because most of his criticism of Tolkien seems to basically be wrapped up in how much he disagrees with Tolkien for being Christian, socially conservative, supposedly championing the poor and middle class, and for being anti-urban/not a fan of industrialization. The dude has a very snobby attitude.

>>54722345
No but i would expect some just doing their job and not all of them beeping complete sociopaths who can't help but be dicks to everyone.

>>54722345
There's a middle ground between having knights be shining paladins and having them be retarded edgelords for no reason.

Certainly there are some knights who just might be rude to people but not outright sociopaths?

>>54721793
Martin actually wrote a story about some super soldier getting killed by his superiors to get out of being drafted for Vietnam. It's pretty cheesy and shlocky but it worked.

>>54722345
That's fine and all, but, sooner or later people like Ramsay Bolton or Walder Frey are going to get lynched, because they're not just hated by the foreigners they may or may not be fucking over, they're also hated by their immediate neighbors, their vassals, and the people that cook their food.

Martins' characters go way beyond regular, banal, but still mostly tolerable evil and into the realm of dog-fucking insanity so much of the time.

>>54711596

While I liked GRRM's books what I really don't like is:

-How unless the future book really deviates from the show and has Jon stay dead, he's showing worse than a betrayal of the promise and lauding of 'no plot armor' 'no deus ex machina'. Rather, he intentionally cultivated a false sense of that in order to make it seem like Jon or Daenerys were in danger when he seems to have intended for these worst fairy-tale pulp fantasy protagonists to survive and thrive.

-The criticism of Tolkien >>54718658 when GRRM is more interested in courtly intrigue than true bureaucratic affairs of ruling. It's not as if we get a solid sense of tax policy or economic development in his setting. I'd need to re-read the big old book of World of Westeros but I swear there was very much a feeling of "If the Targareyen ruler is good, then the kingdom is good".

And his complaint about a template is personal taste. It'd be no better if/when GRRM's template becomes the rule. Because as backstabbing and cruel as courtly intrigue was war and politics was not always like Game of Thrones.

>>54722958
>he's showing worse than a betrayal of the promise and lauding of 'no plot armor' 'no deus ex machina'.
Oh come on, he never had this. Try to explain Arya Stark's continued survival without plot armor/deus ex machina escapes.

GRRM just substitutes his own, openly machiavellian but without the veneer of charm values instead of the more classic heroic values, and goes out of his way to save the people with those, and to go out of his way to make sure anyone conventionally noble and heroic always dies. I mean for fuck's sake, he telegraphs Robb's death from like a million pages away by narrating everything that happens around him out of Catelyn's point of view, unlike the rest of the Stark brood.

>>54720304
Regardless, this is a fucking gaming board, and ASOIAF is a series of novels, not a series of games.

There is literally no reason for this cancer to be on this board.

>>54723202
Why do people like you who are new to /tg/ always think you control the board?

>>54723084
>Oh come on, he never had this. Try to explain Arya Stark's continued survival without plot armor/deus ex machina escapes.
Or Tyrion.

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Hey, I was thinking, how possible would it be for some wealthy group of merchants from the free cities to colonize the lands Beyond the Wall (far before or after this whole deal with the White Walkers, of course). We know that there's tin and copper deposits in the Frostfangs, timber throughout the whole region, wildlife which can be turned into furs, and likely some fish and perhaps even whales near the coasts. There is an off chance that there might even be some arable land here and there. Not to mention that if you aren't opposed to slavery you can enslave the free folk (or at least their children) as well, although personally I think just trading with them would be more profitable.

Of course, perhaps the presence of the Wildlings has made colonization and exploitation of the land too difficult to bother with, but perhaps after the White Walkers attack and are pushed back we might see some new economic activity within the region?

>>54724082
>Essos uses slaves
>showfag

GRRM is basing GoT on events from Brittish history as he said it. The celtic myths from that area speak of the age of heroes, and the artifacts they wielded to fight the darkness. Age of heroes stopped when romans came (Trannygerian Invasion) and united them under one banner. So what we see here is return of age of heroes, GRRM is getting lazy and wants to end it as Tolkein would.

>>54724082
Trading with them would probably be significantly less of a hassle, given their cultural aversion to traditional Westerosi serfdom. Better to trade and make money than make new enemies.

>>54725891
A lot of Essos does, especially in Ghis. It's really only Braavos and the Iron Bank that doesn't, given the whole place was founded by escaped slaves and has actively warred with Pentos to force them to enact suffrage.

>>54725906
Thanks, wanted to say Bravos.
In my head they are all the same.

>>54722263
I think I missed that because of all the shit going on in the books

Or maybe I'm a dense nigger.

>>54717297
>>54717487
>>54719355
>>54719398

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=izXAoKKHm4g

It just doesn't make sense. It sounded like a cool quirk to give a fantasy setting and Martin just didn't really have a deep enough understanding of the logistics of feeding a medieval society to realize how incredibly serious of a problem it is.

>>54718430
>greenhouses
A greenhouse.

>>54718041
that's because the show one isn't a big guy

>>54722345
>>54722502
Even earlier if you consider such things as the Chanson de Roland or Arthurian tales. Hell, the Chanson de Roland was sung by a troubadour (while juggling swords!) during the Norman invasion.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taillefer

>>54715889
I sincerely hope you don't think this is in any way clever.

>>54722925
>walder frey
>bad guy

Walder is one of the nicest freys, he lets any frey stay at the twins completely free of charge for as long as they want, considering the frey family is huge that's a really nice deal. The red wedding was mostly planned and executed by his heir, the people that went along with it were doing it to see useful so they can stay at the twins since the heir doesn't care for walder's "everyone can stay" policy.

>>54718921
The key word is feudal; the king does not micromanage his peasants, neither do his lords, or the barons under THEM. They can do what they like and meddle all they like, but the majority of the population of a medieval society is engaged in food production. They don't know anything about the outside world and can run their households just fine without a kang somewhere telling them what to do.

As for the long winters, I don't know. Never seen a single word about it in the books, so I imagine George "Really Realistic" Martin never gave it much thought.

>>54726934
Only in releation to the stature of yourself.

>>54722925
It's not like the ridiculously evil guys get off scot-free, at least not in the books. Ramsay is universally loathed by everyone who's been close to him and already has people plotting against him, and the Freys are so despised that people are going out of their way to assassinate them when they can get away with it.

Joffrey got poisoned for being too unstable for a political marriage to hold, Tywin was gutshot because Tyrion finally learned the truth, the Brave Companions are all dead except for the maester, the Mountain going horribly poisoned by the guy whose sister he killed, etc etc etc.

Besides, there are reasonable and pleasant people who don't suffer horrible fates and are generally well-liked and successful, like Loras' older brother.

>>54727395
This. I don't understand the whole "villains always win" meme that's going around. The bad guys are all either dead, or about to be dead. The Lannisters, the Freys, the Boltons are all living on borrowed time.

>>54711685
Harvesting plot armor from your civilians seems like some vile shit for a final boss.
>All good luck in my kingdom is siphoned to me. I cannot die!

>>54711109

I hate how the series turned out. The books so eloquently described that everybody is just a mortal and stupid mistakes will cost you your life. Dany always had a bit of plot armor, but she faced many more defeats and humility than she does in the series. Same for Jon and Tyrion. The show has made them into literal gods. We all know they're not going to die, and if they do, it's going to be some huge plot element like sacrificing themselves for the greater good or whatever.

I truly hope I'm wrong, and Dany will be randomly shot off her dragon by a giant ballista or some shit, but I doubt it's going to happen.

>>54727997
The ballisats work
It injured drgon quite well
Only problem is getting a clear shot to the eye
Also you haven't seen the leaks yet have you

>>54728048

No I have not.
Will I be pleasantly suprised?

I really like to be wrong, you know. The main reason I liked GoT is because it defied my expectations at every turn.

>>54728054
One of the leaked scenes is dany riding in on her dragon saving jon and friends from white walkers
In another scene jon and dany have sex on a boat
But hey the white walkers kill a dragon and then res him and then use the zombie dragon to destroy the wall

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>>54728054
Leaks are here if you want to read them, anon.
Be warned, because they've mostly been dead on the money, with a few notable exceptions like saying the sand sneks would escape

>>54729034
>Literally nothing notable except for the Wall falling is happening in this season
Even Cersei is still alive. How is Cersei still fucking alive?

>>54723329
They came here during niggermod's reign, and think they can enforce his policies when we drove him off for fucking up our board.

>>54729974
What baffles me is that they've been blown the fuck out repeatedly for years now, yet they still keep coming.
I can only assume it's a core cabal of autism that refuses to admit defeat.

>>54727368
I gotta admit, I wonder what the next step in his master plan is.

>>54730038
4chan isn't as hostile as it used to be, unfortunately, so immigrants don't integrate.

>>54730285
He's most likely winging it at this point

>>54729084

She's a stony Wymym who don't need no man and certainly won't be killed by one.

>>54718658

It's a bad template for the majority of fantasy stories. Doesn't mean it shouldn't ever be done.

Lots of modern cape movies are darker than the original comics because Miller and Burton made it work for Batman. It worked for Batman, but that doesn't mean that it's the right template for every super hero movie and if you were going to cite a beginning of the trend, you'd have to look at Miller and Burton Batman.

>>54711596
>>54718658
I'm going to have to agree with >>54712954 you're completely misinterpreting what he's said. I'm not a fan of GRRM, his stuff is too grimdark for the sake of grimdark for me, as well as being just as much of a pointlessly meandering soap opera as most "epic" fantasy. But in that quote he's just saying that Tolkien's writing was heroic, high fantasy, which it was, and that he prefers a more realistic, low fantasy approach. He prefers the kinds of books that he himself writes. Not exactly a mind-blowing revelation, I would have thought.
He's just stating his opinion. He's allowed to do that, you know. Even if his opinion is different than yours.

>>54721793
>I actually read the first 4 of his books just so that my criticisms would, y'know, hold some water

You ever heard the term "confirmation bias"?
Because telling us that you only read his books because you had already decided to hate him and his and work is, I suspect, not as convincing as you think it is.

>>54729034
>lannisters take dorne
Yeah that's literally not possible after all the war of the five kings, and the instability in their own regions.

Then again it's the show and they don't give a shit about anything making sense.

>>54732336
If Game of Thrones has shown anything its that 'take' is easy, 'hold' is the hard part

>>54732383
They couldn't even take it the entrance into dorne is a narrow pass, the climate sucks ass for everyone thats not used to it, and the locals are nasty. There's a reason why even the Targaryens couldn't conquer dorne with Dragons it's just vietnam in Westeros.

>>54732418
You know I was trying to remember why Unbowed, Unbent, Unbroken felt relevant to my post but thanks for reminding me
I suppose the Lannister army could just use twenty good men to take the pass, it worked out well for Ramsay Bolton

Why is fun a bad "template".

Why are dark lords "bad" except because GRR said so?

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>>54732491
I hope Martin puts that strategy in his book and all those that partake in it die. Inb4 Martin doesn't finish the next book.

>>54732336
It looks like that's one of the things it's got wrong.
The show seems more content to pretend Dorne doesn't exist.
Honestly, it would have been better if they'd taken that approach from the start, rather than have the godawful sand snake plot.

>>54726989
>The red wedding was mostly planned and executed by his heir
Uh, is this a show thing or something? Walder Frey's heir during that event was well known as a fat, drunken moron who couldn't do shit right and was dismissed by Jaime during the siege of Riverrun, only to get his dumb ass hanged by Dark Souls Catelyn.

>>54728124
>show revives Jon
God help me, if the book does the same (yes I know if it does the book was the origin of it, not the show) I'll lose all respect for the book series. Reviving Catelyn was enough to make me grimace, but her and the Starks' story is effectively over for the time being. Another resurrection just isn't tolerable.

>>54730364
Someone lives in the EU, lel.

>>54732667
Better lose that respect right now anon, after all the R+L = J hinting you should see this coming.

>>54732156
Whatever, bro. I know there's confirmation bias, there'd be confirmation bias there if I decided I liked him before reading the books as well.

What's the point, China?
I watched the show, decided it kinda sucked, read the book, saw that the original writer also kinda sucked. Hoping it would get better, I continued reading the books to see if they got better, and was disappointed by the way he wrote.

>>54717297
Most Winters don't last too long, a couple of years or so. Big castles build up years of supplies during the long Summer. Also, a whole load of people in the North do die.

I have absolutely no idea how the animals survive. Maybe they all feed on white walkers.

>>54732667
>God help me, if the book does the same
Yeah, prepare to be disappointed.

>>54732881
It does explain why crows are so prevalent beyond law of dramatic birds, the necrophage biosphere of Westeros must be booming even during the long Summers

Speaking of which, do we know if the Winters effect Essos as well, or are they purely caused by proximity to the Wall and what lies beyond it? Because if it is just Westeros freezing over for years at a time, I can't think of a single reason the 7 Kingdoms aren't actively engaged in colonizing at least the closest shores of Essos to use as shelter when their homeland freezes

>>54733113
>I can't think of a single reason the 7 Kingdoms aren't actively engaged in colonizing at least the closest shores of Essos
That shores are settled and local people would probably be against it.

>>54733113
>engaged in colonizing at least the closest shores of Essos to use as shelter when their homeland freezes
Fuck off, we're full.

>>54722595
this
Moorcock is a retard. His books are good though.

>>54733153
>>54733206
And since when the fuck has that ever stopped anyone from colonizing anything?

I prefered the white walkers when they were just this hidden threat up north, giving us historical context for the wall and setting the mood of the world. GoT is the most attractive to me when magic is mysterious and mostly invisible, with the most visually daunting displays of sorcery being flaming swords.

Now there's a Chosen One, big fuck-off dragons and the Lich King and I'm not really feeling it anymore.

>>54733306
>>54733113
The long night has stories all over the world(eros) or (planetos whatever gay shit it is). I imagine winter is just more severe in the north of westeros, but everyone gets longer nights in the rest of the planet while the effort to go somewhere else isn't worth the time and effort.

>>54733345
That's always the problem with stories where the magic wakes up again after X many thousands of years, its always at its most interesting when the magic has just barely awoken at which point you're committed to following it through and rocketing into high fantasy territory with low fantasy sensibilities

>>54720473
>myrish swamp

>>54733391
The Brotherhood Without Banners really was my jam as far as magic goes. They remain one of the very few decent things in the show.

>>54711109
All men who don't pack a powerful bbc are to be castrated and pay 100% tax on income.

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>Tax
>TAX
I think you mean theft, don't make me release the McAdventurers.

>>54723084
she survived because once she got out of kings landing how the fuck was anyone going to find her? theres no pictures of her and no one who personally knew her is personally searching for her. once you take that into account she's just a girl crossing a wartorn land and theres like a million books about just that and no one complains about them.not to mwntion she's passed around like a potato by people interested in protecting her constantly except for that one time in harrenhal, but since no one had any interest in a 9 year old girl its perfectly reasonable she could survive, no one complains hot pie survived harrenhal after all.

>>54733306
>And since when the fuck has that ever stopped anyone from colonizing anything?
To colonize someone, you usually have to be more technologically advanced and have superior firepower. Westeros isn't colonizing shit.
In fact, it was Essos that colonized Westeros. Twice!

>>54732827
Still unbelievable. I can understand people finishing one book and then deciding they didn't like it. But if you keep coming back and read 3 sequels, then your narrative reeks of bullshit. You're not some hardcore critic with enough time to waste on things you don't like just to be able to legitimize your patrician opinions.

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>>54734010
>To colonize someone, you usually have to be more technologically advanced and have superior firepower
That's where you're wrong moro.

>>54711596
What's happening is part of a phenomenon I wrote about a couple of years ago when I was asked to comment on GRRM. I went to the Yale University bookstore and bought and read a copy of "Game of Thrones." I suffered a great deal in the process. The writing was dreadful; the book was terrible. As I read, I noticed that every time a character swore fealty, the author wrote instead that the character "bent his knees." I began marking on the back of an envelope every time that phrase was repeated. I stopped only after I had marked the envelope several dozen times. I was incredulous. GRRM's mind is so governed by cliches and dead metaphors that she has no other style of writing.

But when I wrote that in a newspaper, I was denounced. I was told that manchildren would now read only GRRM, and I was asked whether that wasn't, after all, better than reading nothing at all? If GRRM was what it took to make them pick up a book, wasn't that a good thing?

It is not. "Game of Thrones" will not lead our children on to Kipling's "Just So Stories" or his "Jungle Book." It will not lead them to Thurber's "Thirteen Clocks" or Kenneth Grahame's "Wind in the Willows" or Lewis Carroll's "Alice."

Later I read a lavish, loving review of GRRM by JK Rowling. She wrote something to the effect of, "If children are reading Game of Thrones at 21 or 22, then when they get older they will go on to read Harry Potter." And she was quite right. She was not being ironic. When you read "Game of Thrones" you are, in fact, trained to read Harry Potter.

>>54734343
Is this a /lit/ copypasta?

>>54734343
>It is not. "Game of Thrones" will not lead our children on to Kipling's "Just So Stories" or his "Jungle Book." It will not lead them to Thurber's "Thirteen Clocks" or Kenneth Grahame's "Wind in the Willows" or Lewis Carroll's "Alice."
Note that some of this is due to the modern publishing industry and being typelocked.
While GRRM isn't likely to write outside of fantasy (not counting him as editor for Wild Cards), authors of yesteryear were prolific and encouraged to write as in many genre they could, because they could sell it to more magazines.

Apparently R.A. Salvatore tried to write a hardcore noir style detective novel and his publishers straight up told him that if it wasn't fantasy, they wouldn't publish it, and if he tried to publish with anyone else they would sue him.

>>54733849
Right on, brother.
Release the Moral Clarity!

>>54734066
Well I have Autism. So there. Blame it on that then.

"Secret Sweetness", bud. 6-8 times. Between book 2 and 3 to describe a lady's privates.

"Secret Sweetness", son.

Secret
Sweetness

>>54733849
>Libertarian adventurers
>Go around killing kings and lords
>Society descends into chaos and anarchy
>???
>Utopia

>>54734600
>Society *ascends* into chaos and anarchy

>>54711251
>game of thrones
>female
>bad at anything
Fuck off misogynist.

>>54734629
I know it's fun to meme, but the show is hilariously misogynist without realising.
The female leaders are shown to be cruel and/or incompetent while being propped up by men or getting quickly deposed

>Sansa - constantly Undermines Jon and has a massively inflated ego. Only in power because Jon and CIA allowed it
>Cersei - Grade A psychopath supported largely by Euron, Jamie and Qyburn
>Dany - has managed to fuck up literally everywhere she's ever wielded power. Supported largely by Tyrion and Varys
>Sand Sneks - Grade A* Psycopaths that think avenging Oberyn by murdering his defenceless family is a great idea. Killed off quickly after their coup.
>Yara - Doesn't seem to grasp that horrific torture does things to peoples minds, and thinks humiliating said torture victim repeatedly is a great time. Gets royally fucked the moment she sets off on her own.
>Olenna - Seems to think having any scouts in a time of war, when you're practically defenceless and on the Grade A psychopath's shit list, is a great idea.

>>54732667
The siege of riverrun does not have walder's heir.

>>54734767
>but the show is hilariously misogynist without realising
This. I especially love how they "badassed up" Brienne. Cause, you know, ruthlessly killing people without any emotion whatsoever was always the real point of her character in the books! Who needs self-reflection, when you can KILL people?
The way the writers treated Sansa is also absolutely disgusting.

>>54734384
>Is this a /lit/ copypasta?
Yes, it's originally about Harry Potter.

>>54734767
Yara and Olenna feel like reaching but then again half the reason they aren't as bad as the otheres is because they aren't the writers favorites

>>54734876
Yara is hilariously bad "feminist" character, maybe even the worst they ever had.
>Needs her brother to speak for her at the Kingsmoot, when in the books she had a very clever speech about why she should be elected as a queen. Can't have a woman with agency!
>Is adapted into a stone-cold killer, because D&D hate femininity. See Brienne and Sansa.
>Made into a lesbian, because straight dudes love watching lesbians make out. At least she wasn't reduced to an offensive stereotype like Loras, thanks for that.
>Abuses a PTSD victim for no reason and tells him to get over his horrific torture

>>54734441
GRRM was a science fiction writer for decades before ASOIAF

>>54734980
I heard his Scifi was terrible.

But I mean...y'know. Idk for sure.

>>54734973
By the way, if any of you are interested in GoT's sexism, here's one of very interesting essays on the topic. I'm as far from a feminist as it gets, but I think it has a lot of good points - as long as the author doesn't start speaking about privilege.
http://gotgifsandmusings.tumblr.com/post/124532561942/got-season-5-sexism-part-4

>>54735024
His SciFi is literally most of the plots of ASOIAF, he recycled almost everything.

>>54735038
That makes me sad.

That...that fills me with sadness for some reason.

I mean, I believe it. I guess he is just an ascended hack afterall

>>54735080
He's just reused good ideas and made them better, he's not a hack. Most authors do it.

>>54735141
>Most authors do it.


I'm not 100% sure on 'most'. Though some do.

(Just so that we're clear, you mean reused his own ideas, right?)

>>54734572
>secret sweetness
Oh I am laffin'

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>>54734973
Don't forget

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>>54725893
I would imagine that if you did trade with them, you could get a fantastic deal. It's unlikely that the wildlings are accustomed to bargaining and the value of certain goods, and compound that with the fact that they have no way of acquiring metal weapons and armor except from the occasional dead Night's Watch ranger and you have a recipe for fantastic profits, assuming you can get them to acquire enough lumber, pelts, or ores in enough time to make the trip worth it.

>>54735312
yeah he reused his own ideas from his sci fi work and put them in his mangum opal

>>54736032
Ah ok. That's not that bad, then.

Not the best thing to do, but I mean...y'know. Make it work.

>>54736032
The amount of authors that do that is a diamond dozen, to be fair.

>>54736077
Ah. Ok. I'm an idiot then.

(Me >>54735312 )

>>54736077
You just gotta learn to separate the weed from the chef.

>>54735035
>I'm as far from a feminist as it gets

>>54734441
>Apparently R.A. Salvatore tried to write a hardcore noir style detective novel and his publishers straight up told him that if it wasn't fantasy, they wouldn't publish it, and if he tried to publish with anyone else they would sue him.
If you ever had any doubt you were in a corporatist society.

>>54737189
That's what pseudonyms are for.

>>54734835
Brienne chapters were always shit anyway. Still it's strange how the show makes her out to be some badass when in the books all she does is wander around and fuck up

>>54734835

I think the stark contrast between her and all the other "badass" women is she isn't cruel. Other women go out of their way to be cruel and drag out an inevitable death out of some personal quest for self satisfaction and purpose in their lives. Brienne just wants to do the right thing, and that simple ambition leads her to make simple and straightforward decisions. You don't need self reflection when you and half the continent knows that you're morally better than most of it.

>>54737537

She isn't exactly a badass because the only people shes able to beat are mooks, cripples, and tired old men. But relative to the rest of the named cast, shes a top performer; and in GoT, surviving is better than winning.

>>54737189

More like he assumed his publishers were his friends. You present to your friends in the industry first, then to your publishers. He would have been better off running his story as a comic book.

>>54737709
She's still the one that lost to a guy named "Biter" (or at least something like that) to me

>>54737537
her chapters were a window into how shit westeros was doing after the war. Plus she is a neat character.

>>54737728

Shes the one who tried to wrestle a grizzly to me.

>>54737819

>soldiers just hang hookers wherever they go because they don't have enough money to pay

poverty life

>>54737709

>I think the stark contrast between her and all the other "badass" women is she isn't cruel

I seem to recall that in one of the earlier seasons she stabbed a man through the taint and let him slowly bleed to death rather than giving him a merciful headchopping or heart stabbing death as a way to avenge some murdered barmaids, thats not exactly "not cruel"

>>54737944

Letting a man bleed out because you're busy doing something more important isn't the definition of cruelty, either.

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>>54734600
He's not my king, I didn't vote for him.

>>54735038
You have no idea how excited I would be if at the end we see a giant dude beyond the world looking at all of them fighting and we find out this is literally just a tank full of Sand Kings.

Well, credit where credit is due.
When I first attempted to read the books, I was told by someone that, eventually, I would 'feel sorry' for Jaime.
And that never happened.
Not when he lost his hand, not when he got chewed out, not at any time in his life.
Until tonight.
Watching him stand his ground against amazing-for-no-reason horsemen with their stupid as hell weapons, watching a goddamn monster that we're supposed to cheer for come down to murder them, ridden by a Mary Sue whose tax policy we've never learned (now Cosplaying as fucking Elsa), seeing his men destroyed by something they can barely fight while the dumb horsemen taunt his brother ('Is this easy mode lol'), seeing him decide to do that thing that, apparently, does NOT make a man brave...yeah, I now feel sorry for Jaime.
So, good job, I guess, HBO.

>>54734441
That might just have happened because Salvatore's an arrogant asshole and fucked up the pitch meeting.

>>54737727
Yes, being a good writer makes you a good comicbook artist/writer/inker, surely.

>>54735035
>Fictional universes should be egalitarian!
What a stupid fucking opinion.
Yes, Westeros is sexist, it's also a place where your birth gives you the right to rule, and no one is equal.

>>54739662
If it's the point you took from the essay, you should read it again. The problem is not the universe, it's the narrative, and the way it tends to differ from the book narrative in sexist ways, again and again.
You don't actually think that the reason people had a problem with Sansa's rape was because a female character was raped, right?

>>54711109
communism followed by economic collapse

>>54739721
Redundant statement.

>>54711109
Martin isn't a competent enough writer, historian, or economist to formulate such a thing, despite his biggest gripe with other authors being that they don't formulate such things.

That said, I don't think it would be a sign of competence from a fantasy author to delve into the tax policies of his imaginary kingdoms. Quite the opposite actually. And in the case of Tolkien, it was clearly intentional to not being up such mundane things, because it was meant to read as an ancient text, and contemporary authors don't mention mundane details like how the tax system works. It's assumed that people already know about shit like that.

Of course, Martin is really a sci fi writer, and as such is more interested in the implications and the how than in writing a compelling story. Too bad that he can't get the former two down either.

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A massive import tax on large Spears and Scorpions.

>>54735035
>I’m sorry, it’s very difficult for me not to be sarcastic with the show’s depiction of Dorne.
So it stays true to the source material then.

>>54740571
>look at me I am retarded

>>54738349
Give him some axes and either his city eaters or the wold eaters.

>>54734799
Ryman Frey, his first grandson by his first son Stevron (dead at the battle of Oxcross) is there. He's the heir, until the Brotherhood hangs him after he's dismissed by Jaime.

>>54740822
All the field of fire is gonna do is harden the resolve of all of westeros
No way they're back down now

>>54711109

Well originally she was like an ancap parody, where she/her husband instead of taxing people were going to take 100% of the profits for selling children into sexual slavery after killing their parents for violating the NAP for trespassing on their property, until she became infected with a toxic liberalism and decided to virtue signal by saving a bunch of "poor women and children", and through her actions gets her societies leader, her husband, assassinated and her unborn child involuntarily aborted.

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>>54737853
I loved the witcher 3 fist fighting quests.

The second to last is a fucking bear. A bear you have to beat with your bare fists.
Turned on bear and maiden fair during the fight.

>>54744438

Grabbing a healar woman mid gang rape after putting her city to the sword and then just taking her at he word and shoving whatever leaves she suggested into her husband's wounds was a pretty phenomenally stupid idea.

>>54745757
Yeah skellige just being fully retarded with their fights and customs.
>"Your champions a troll"
>"Aye but hes an honourable troll"

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>>54721010

You forgot the last bit

>>54744052
westeros has a rich cultural heritage of death by dragon mounted Targ, they'll just be happy she's not torching cities.

>>54711109
everyone owes her 1 left nipple every year. incompetent, shitty leader.

>>54735035
Yeah but these people think that Cersei is one of the shows most sympathetic characters and that it makes no sense for us to want bad things to happen to her.

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>>54749378
The only sympathetic thing about Cersei is that she asked her fate like a retarded kid, and got the shittiest answer possible. Kinda like Macbeth, never ask about the future from seers.

>>54749740
>pic

That's some quality bants

Daenerys imagined herself as a prodigal princess who returned to lead her people to glory, with everyone but the traitor royals bending the knee.

Now she's invaded Westeros with a horde of primitive savages and is burning the enemy soldiers by the hundreds with her dragon. She's made herself a foreign invader.

>>54750145

Just like her ancestors

Its like pottery

>>54750267
Pretty much. Except Daenerys is probably barren and can't really rule by herself; she can make judgement calls sometimes, and usually poor ones. Doubt we'll see her on the Iron Throne, if ANYONE actually gets it in the end.

>>54750523
I could see book!Dany getting the Throne, 'cause while she is a fuckup, she at least gets the consequences of her failures shoved in her face once in a while. She is self-aware enough that she might actually start taking things to heart one of these days.

Meanwhile, show!Dany gets enabled by the writers, and so just keeps ramming her dragon peg through every hole. Her personality hasn't changed in the slightest since the end of the first season.

Book Dany hasn't yet had her moment of truth since the field of grass. Show Dany has always been worse, so perhaps GRRM will win her back from the Scrappy tier protag list.

>>54750736
Book dany is just as big as a fuck up as show dany. I better not get another fucking quote of her with her starting "I may just be a little girl but I - ramble ramble ramble"

>>54750900
You're missing the point. They're both fuckups, but the books acknowledge it (even Dany herself is somewhat aware of it, even if she's too prideful to admit it), while the show just pretends she isn't.

>>54751163
I'm not giving a fuck about the point just ranting that I hate Dany.

>>54751210
Don't worry, I don't like her either.

(Spoiler)

Last episode had a bunch of people screaming in orgasm because she burned soldiers alive and got mad because Bronn actually shot the damn dragon.

>>54751338
>spend seasons saying burning shit with dragons is not the way
>Daenarys finally succumbs to her fathers bloodlust and roasts men alive in a supremely unfair fight
>YAS QUEEN SLAAAAAY

I fucking hate the Game of Thrones fanbase

>>54751364
Her dragons are OP as fuck. I wished she would at least got bitten or suffered for them, but nope, whenever something bads happens, its Dragon Ex Machina time!

>>54751414
they're basically attack helicopters

>>54751338
Not sure why you didn't use the actual spoiler mechanic we have.

>>54751364
yep cheering the whole time for bronn to shoot the fucker and kill at least one dragon, but whatever gotta wait until a mob full of peasants runs into her future keep and murders them all.

>>54751531

Not him but I've never been able to use it right

>>54751613
Is this a joke?

>>54751646

Apparently I got it that time

Woo

GoT a shit, its just like the Wire but with fewer black people

>>54735024
I had to read his Sandkings short story back in Highschool, thought it was really neat.

>>54749378
>Yeah but these people think that Cersei is one of the shows most sympathetic characters
Well, they're not wrong. Basically every bad thing she did was cut from the plot in order to make her more sympathetic, and the Sparrows were turned into comically evil gay-hating fanatics.
Why ISN'T Cersei a sympathetic character?

>>54711109
One eunuch soldier per year from every family.

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>>54736077
>diamond dozen

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>>54734629
Bad at not getting poisoned.

>>54727997
I would instantly get into GoT after having avoided it like the plague if I heard this happened. If big bad Daenerys the Fireproof got killed off in some ignoble and inglorious way, it would go a long way toward restoring my faith in modern story telling. As it stands, the rest of the setting seems interesting, but everything I hear about Daenerys for the past few years reads like something out of a 13 year old girl's fanfic self insert. Fuck her as a character, fuck her sad past and her dragons and her righteousness; drag absolutely everything into the muck and then we'll talk. As long as she remains literally riding high, the rest of it feels like a cheap double standard.

>>54751613
Highlight the text and hit ctrl + s, it's the idiotproof method

>>54739082
Yeah, this was legitimately the only time since the Mountain and the Viper (although that maybe deserves more credit since I'd read the books and already knew how it would end) that I've had my heart pounding in my chest worrying about what would happen. Whatever other failings the show has, it's managed to get me very invested into Bronn and Jaime and seeing them make it out of the story alive.

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>>54751163
The problem is, even if she has acknowledged it, there's very little evidence that points to her being a good ruler.

Like half of Essos is dying of plague and even shittier than usual soley thanks to her.

>>54734084
That colony didn't last worth shit

Also, Ive seen that statue (or a replica I don't know) in real life

>>54754683
>there's very little evidence that points to her being a good ruler.
The whole ADwD has her doing nothing but right decisions, right until the end when she fucks up. And no, the plague is not her fault at all.

So once GoT ends what will fill the "adult fantasy" niche that is apparently so in demand?

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>>54754813

>>54754813
Presumably it doesn't exist yet, so how would anyone know?

>>54711109
Pay up or burn up.

>>54715060
mah nigga

Let us be completely honest with ourselves. Of all the major candidates for Ruler of Westeros, the Lannisters are by far the best for the people.

In just under a year, Cersei has managed to reduce the record breaking Westeros Debt from Millions of Crowns to 0. After that, she pursues a responsible fiscal policy of moderate borrowing to fund her unification program. She secures food for her people, until Dany uses biological weapons to burn it all. She doesn't give a fuck who you fuck. She doesn't care for for whom owns your prayer. She just cares that you show loyalty to the government, and pay your small taxes.

Meanwhile, her brotherlover is Jaime, the most badass Knight in all of Westeros. He's so talented at siegecraft that he was able to take highgarden without actually bringing any siege equipment. He did it in record time with minimal losses. Further, he's honorable as fuck. He moderates cersei's more extreme desires, and ensures that the meek have adequate representation. He's not going to abandon his men, and he's willing to charge a dragon for his people.

Meanwhile, you've got Dany who wants to bend or burn you, and is likely going insane with power. Jon Snow is a Night King sleeper agent.

Tell me, who would you rather have ruling you?

>>54754813
There's a Wheel of Time adaptation in the works again. Redhawk Entertainment is apparently gonna try and take its place

>>54755212
>Ser Jaime

You mean Saint George before the literal deus ex machina?

>>54755406
did george fuck his sister and get canonized?

>>54755212
Let's not forget that Jaime also saved the people of King's Landing from burning alive by putting down the Mad King, or that his work in ending the siege of Riverrun allowed peace to return to the Trident for the first time in years, since the Starks kidnapped Tyrion and began the War of the Five Kings. The Lannisters have worked harder towards peace in the Seven Kingdoms than any other great house.

>>54755417
Well it is England

>>54717243
I find this shit ironic considering that GRR was bitching about how "Oh well Tolkien never deals with rulershipo" and literally the whole thing is about how apparently nobody knows how to rule correctly except his special favorite babies, and they don't even mention the minutae of actually ruling.

Give me my 3 page minimum argument on taxation policies and the risk of provinces going rogue and starving the capital merely by dint of some rabble rouser talking shit.

>>54711109
Who cares what her tax policy is like? She's sterile, and the rest of her house is extinct except for one guy who nobody knows about (and even if they did, they have no reason to believe his claim - it's conspiracy-theory tier unverifiable). After she dies, her realm is in for a succession crisis and a civil war, period.

Her conquest will, ultimately, be pointless.

>>54711486
Honestly, I can't watch the show anymore due to the pop feminism overtones. And I'm a pretty progressive guy.

Her character is supposed to be naive but instead the writers were like "what if only the female characters were competent?" and it comes across so heavy handed.

>>54755471
For the lannisters and Sansa, their competence makes sense. Cersei was raised by tywin, and had she been born a boy, and thus could inherit, she would have been his golden child. She paid attention when he was speaking.

Sansa, she got tutelage from littlefinger. The problem is that Dany has no justification for her competence, and nearly every male character is incompetent right now.

>>54718703
fuck asoiaf and got.

its always been a left wing feminazi pile of shit with all kinds of crap about how women are strong and powerful.

fuck that shit it's not fantasy its bullshit

>>54755463
>because a ruler cannot name their heirs in just that eventuality.

>>54755492
actually, she has had help and learned many lessons (whether good or bad) from many people during her travels in the east, most of whom were men. Basically, she has seen how NOT to rule and has compensated by using common sense and advice from those she trusts.

>>54755463
Nor does he exist in the Television show.

Also, he's technically a Blackfyre.

>>54755611
I think the anon was referring to Jon, not Aegon

>>54734084
Pelaguis of Asturias.

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>>54727943
The idea reminds me of something from a Shadowrun game.

>>54755570
Not for one whose followers follow out of personal love or fear for, no. Unless you think the Dothraki are going to bow to fucking Tyrion.

The minute she dies, her little empire's going to turn into post-Alexander Macedonia.

Dany is going to have Jon's child. Didn't anyone read sunset found her squatting, where she finally starts having periods again.

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>>54734767
I'll give you all of those except Olenna. She's pretty clearly a finesse/intrigue expert, not a military commander, and it looks like most of her best military minds died at King's landing. It's a huge mistake on her part to just basically say to her dudes "Be on your guard until Dany arrives to pick us up", but a believable one for someone with only a very basic understanding of military strategy.
As for Yara, her being a bit of an asshole just comes with Greyjoy territory. Personally, I headcanon that Euron's night attack was a result of Sea-Sorcery he picked up in his travels, because as far as I know co-ordinating a night attack at sea with the tech level they have would be ridiculously difficult.

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>>54751778
>The Sparrows
Goddammit. This is the show change I hated the most. In the book, the Sparrows are people with legitimate grievances who genuinely care about the fate of the commoners, but who also have a dangerous strain of fanaticism. They have a point, but they're also brutal as hell.
In the show, they're Skinheads + ISIS. There's nothing about them that's sympathetic, except that the High Sparrow seems like an okay dude when you talk to him one on one and he works at a soup kitchen sometimes, I guess. If they had had just a few scenes of them, I dunno, punishing rapists or something, or just doing something besides leering while they beat up gay guys and prostitutes I would have been much happier.

>>54757536

> Skinheads + ISIS

Most of the people i talk GOT with calls them the Westeros Baptist Church.

>>54758083
They wave abusive signs at gay people?

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>>54711109
I hate A Game of Thrones.

It is dumb and people give it far too much credit.

>>54734767

On the other hand

>Sansa - mostly buts head because she's taken on KL politicking instead of Stark Honesty, actually competent as we've seen so far
>Cersei - actually a bad ruler, mostly cause she's gone crazy
>Dany - "You can be the king but watch the queen conquer"
>Sand Sneks - actually the most fucked up storyline in GoT. I'm mad.
>Yara - Name any character who isn't a stark or Tyrion who is 100% good.
>Olenna - Highgarden was literally a pile of gold with nobody to defend it. Jaime said that they did the best they could with what they had.

>>54758547
I think that's because the only people left to defend Highgarden were Olenna's direct troops. I think all of the other bannermen threw in with the Lannisters behind the Tarlys or they weren't mobilized at the time to actually defend anything.

>>54758547
>>Cersei - actually a bad ruler, mostly cause she's gone crazy
Have you even been paying attention? Cersei is Tywin's child, and as good at Tyrion at ruling. She has her grudges, of course, but they're based in reason: she only goes after people she's certain are traitors.

>>54758547
>Jaime said that they did the best they could with what they had.

I thought he was implying that they did the best that could be expected of wimpy-ass Tyrells, which Olenna then confirmed.

Wouldn't have been talking that kind of shit if Garlan existed in the show.

>>54758898
Like her little brother who she's convinced is destined to take her down once and for all because of a prophecy? A prophecy she herself has repeatedly pushed him to fulfill. It doesn't take much to convince Cersei you're a traitor. Tywin was absolutely right when he told her she wasn't nearly as smart as she thought herself to be.

>>54758996
You mean that same little brother that killed her father after being found guilty of murdering her son?

She's got a lot of legitimate grievances with Tyrion.

>>54759029
She had grievances with Tyrion before any of that, starting with the circumstances of his birth, and then the aforementioned bit of soothsaying. And she knew full well that Joffrey was a problem without an answer. She admits as much at his funeral and before. She's about as paranoid as they come and I'm half convinced she'd have turned on Tywin herself eventually. Point of all this being she's never struck me as rational and level headed. She barely even passes for calculating. Just vicious and manipulative.

Roose Bolton did absolutely nothing wrong.

>>54718858
Except Moorcock was straight-up wrong in virtually all of his criticisms. His "essays" read like the bitter ramblings of a jealous competitor, because that's what they are.

>>54720292
>that it would almost be fair to consider it a creole language
It would not.

>>54758898
>she only goes after people she's certain are traitors.

Like her husband who was totally the father of her children.

>>54734767

Retard. It's 2017. These women are justified in everything they do because they are killing fucking white males.
You are one oft those beta ignorami who is willfully ignorant towards the insanity oft feminism and even mainstream culture. Just so he can pull off the'Look feminists and anti feminists are equally retarded. They are two sides oft the same coin, but my conflict averse non-convictions are so much smarter.'

>>54759029
So Cersei inherits her hatred of Tyrion from Tywin, as they both hate him for killing Tywin's wife in childbirth, remember when Oberon tells Tyrion about the time Cersei tried to rip off his cock as a baby? This constant abuse causes Tyrion to resent them as well, which drives a fun little hate circle. If you want to discuss how being a woman made her feel less important to her father and that that drove her to be more like him to earn his respect fine, but at the end of the day she's a paranoid bitch with a victim complex and is generally shitty to everyone around her, which drives her to make terrible decisions that should really have all of westeros clamoring for her head.

>>54758547
>Olenna - Highgarden was literally a pile of gold with nobody to defend it. Jaime said that they did the best they could with what they had.
Wouldn't that be the best reason to have a few damn scouts in the area, so you can leg it the moment shit hits the fan?

>>54758898
>and as good at Tyrion at ruling
In the show, perhaps. The books make it clear that Cersei, while not entirely incompetent, is not nearly as good at scheming as she believes.

>>54759682
Frankly, at that point Olenna had as many fucks left to give as her House had heirs.

>>54759727
>Books
Martin's going to collapse of a major heart attack long before the novels are done.
Then the notes go into the fire.
HBO's ending will be the only ending; it'll be the canon version.

>>54759727
Even in the show she's a complete moron that hever thinks more than one step ahead. It's why she got so brutally fucked by the sparrows, when even Stevie Wonder could have seen what was coming
Jamie, Euron and Qyburn are the ones thy do thy for her.

>>54759816
>implying Martin has notes on anything other than the colors of his characters' eyes and pubes.

>>54759861
Her biggest flaw isn't that she doesn't think aead, but rather that she's predictable and easily manipulated by the people who know how to press her buttons.

>>54759867
That's why the notes need to go into the fire - to hide the lack of anything!
I'm actually 80% certain that the 'ending' he explained to the HBO people was 'I don't know how this ends - I thought I'd be dead already and not have to worry about this.'

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>Witcher series gets a non canon continuation of the books.
>not perfect, but the games are a great addition to the universe of the Witcher, which helped fuel western interest in the books
>Sapkowski goes rip shit ballistic over the handling of his IP, even though it was done in a very respectful way

>ASoIaF gets a show series
>after 3 seasons the show turns into a complete and utter shitshow, basically the showrunners writing teenage quality fanfiction and somehow getting away with it
>not a peep from George "tax policies" Martin

If I were GRRM I'd just not finish the book series to spite everyone. And I bet after the disaster that was the GOT show, Sapkowski should thank his lucky stars his IP didn't get the same treatment. Although there is that Netflix series allegedly in the works...

>>54759899
Nah, I feel like he probably does have an ending that he had in mind... from back when it was going be a TRILOGY of novels, and that as he let it bloat, and bloat, and bloat through the middle section (like he has) his ability to steer the story back to that ending has become as lost as his own ability to see his feet.

>>54744052
The Original Field of Fire was the catastrophic military blunder against the Targaryans that led to the Capitulations, in order, of Highgarden and the Reach, Casterly Rock and the Westerlands, the Eryie and the Vale and Winterfell and the North. and only the former two had actually been in that battle, the latter were a case of 'don't let this happen to us'.

>>54759899
I'm pretty sure he did have an idea, in very broad strokes, of how the series would end even from the start, but kept having to prolong it due to writing himself into corners (the most erroneous example being when Dany cancels her plans to travel to Westeros at the end of book 2 all of a sudden to instead travel east) and found new things he needed to include before the final battle between the dragons and the Others. The foreshadowing for that has been about as subtle as a brick to the head.

So in that sense I bet the HBO series so far has stayed pretty true to what Martin told them, even if they had to make up the details on their own.

>>54760058

The end of book two is the most easterly Dany gets, though. Astapoor, Mereen and Yunkai are all west of Qarth.

>>54760140
Might have been at some other point. It was a really long time since I read the books.

I remember clearly how the story was building up to her going west and then Barristan said something like "No, wait! The other plots haven't progressed enough, we can't do that yet!" and then they sailed in the opposite direction instead.

>>54759973
Sapowski's problem with the games was the fact that they were too good.
It was showing him up, and he's a bit of a cunt when it comes to that sort of thing

>>54760205
>he's a bit of a cunt when it comes to that sort of thing
Saprowski is a bit a drunken cunt in general.

>>54760253
Is there any living author who we DON'T think is kind of a cunt?

>>54758923
>Wouldn't have been talking that kind of shit if Garlan existed in the show.
>Garlan has yet to take Brightwater keep from the Florents, I doubt he could do anything

>>54732418
This is days late but the Targaryens not utterly destroying Dorne with dragons is complete bullshit.

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>>54759973
Sapkowski main problem was he didn't get paid enough for the games. He refused a percentual of the game sales and opted for hard cash now.

Now he resents his decision and milions of dollars lost.

GRRM got the right amount of money so he is happy and do not complain.
Also if you read both of their blogs/interviews they are fucking jews that at this point care more about money from IP then any actual message contained inside.

P.S. I liked withcer 3 more then the few witcher books I read. Sapkowsky suck.

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>>54760954

>>54758996
>Like her little brother who she's convinced is destined to take her down once and for all because of a prophecy?
Reminder that Jaime is also technically her little brother. Cersei is the eldest of the three Lannister siblings.

She's so far gone in hating Tyrion that she completely fails to recognise that fact. Of course, she "loves" Jaime, but she only loves him in that she sees him as an extension of herself owing to being her twin. That's going to make his eventual abandonment of her even more horrible to bear.

>>54761150
Reminders that prophecies have also consistently been shown to be bullshit in the series.

>>54761187
The prophecy Cersei got from Maggy has come true thus far, though. Not out of the question that it'll continue to be so:

>When will I wed the prince?
>Never, you will wed the king. (fulfilled, she didn't marry Prince Rhaegar, but King Robert)

>I will be queen?
>Yes, until there comes another, younger and more beautiful to cast you down and take all that you hold dear. (unfulfilled, probably Danaerys)

>will the king and I have children
>Six and ten (60) for him, three for you. Gold shall be their crowns and gold their shrouds. (fulfilled, Robert had a lot of bastards, and Cersei had three children but not "for Robert", also likely referring to golden hair, rather than literal crowns, and that all three will die with golden shrouds upon their body)
>And when your tears have drowned you, the valonqar shall wrap his hands around your pale white throat and choke the life from you. (once they've died, for which she'll mourn somewhat, the little brother will kill her, and she has two little brothers)

Also the prophecy about Melara not marrying Jaime, and worms having her maidenhead, because Cersei killed her by pushing her down a well, where she presumably rotted. Ergo, worms had her maidenhead.

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>>54760954
>no dick chair
Disappointing.

>>54760954

Having read all the Witcher books except the last one and all the ASOIAF books, I still don't know if GRRM knows how to read polish and ripped a whole bunch of shit off from Sapkowsky and counted on no one ever reading these obscure polish novels, or that they're both just drawing from the same basic source material of a mix between feudal European history and fairy tales. It kind of feels like the the Dany and Arya plots are just Ciri's story but split into two characters.

>>54762936
I know what you're getting at but they both started in the 90's and I doubt Martin knows how to read polish since the english translations take forever to come out. I honestly don't give a shit about Ciri though, made the main plot in the third game pretty fucking boring.