Making the Paladin Fall

>>54643626
Just fight the Paladin.

>>54643626
A DM who makes a Paladin fall for killing an innocrnt disguosed as an evildoer is a bad DM.

And even if that DOES make him fall, he'll just feel remorse and penitent for it. At most you took the paladin out of the adventuring game for a month or two while he prays really hard.

A fallen paladin needs to fully and willingly turn his back on his creed.

>>54643626
Depends on the GM really. Depending on how easily the GM will bend to empower your characters it changes.

>>54643626
Need more details. What's his oath? What god does he follow?

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>>54643626
This thing.
Makes him fall and become a ex-paladin/Death Knight in a single combat encounter.

>>54643788
All we know right now is he's a follower of Mitra. We've been playing some kind of non-paizo adventure path that's focused around making Asmodeus the new lord and savior.
>>54643719
I was worried about this, it's what I was thinking too and if that were the case we wouldn't really be able to force a change.

>>54643870
Anyway try finding out more about the Paladin. Send spies to find out details about his life.

The best ways to make a Paladin fall is with minor tweaks and edits.

>>54643870
It's never impossible to make people change Anon, you just need to know which strings to pull on.

Does your party have any political standing? Or is this the "Let's murder everyone for the lulz" kind of evil campaign?

>>54643936
It's a small(ish) village that we're currently located in, we've been working through the shadows to take down the stronghold here from the inside so the army we have waiting for us can steamroll through the place. Problem is between the moral the Paladin gives his people and his own power we're not 100% sure our army would win even with all that we've done so far. In terms of political power we've got little to none since Asmodeus worship is completely illegal, and our "sponsor" is the kind who contacts the party rather than being contacted.

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You have to corrupt the Paladin's motives and make him willingly turn to the other side - his motives for doing things should become more and more twisted as time goes while he thinks he is taking the extreme stances for the greater good, with you fueling it and whispering sweet nothings into his ear. Bonus points if you do it as a female character that is seemingly in need of Paladin's help.

Bonus points if you recognize what his weaknesses are and play those up at every turn.

>>54644085
Well, that's a problem, LE dealings are the best way to make a paladin fall. I would avoid assassinating him if possible, last thing you need is a martyr.
Does he know what you look like?

>>54644085
Seems like the only thing you will get if you make him fall is some kind of blackguard hellbent on killing you all and stuffing your corpses down Asmodeus throat. It's not even so much about Good as about the fact that you are trying to destroy what he is trying to protect.

>>54643626

Fucking powder keg of justice!
https://1d4chan.org/wiki/Powder_Keg_of_Justice

>>54643863
>fort save or paralyzed permanently
>fort save or die in 2 rounds
>no limit per day or anything

What a bullshit monster. Is this from 3.5? Sounds like 3.5 shit.

A paladin is the hero of the story. If you want to beat him you need to make that story a tragedy. This is not something that can be done with force; if you strike at his weaknesses and break the pillars of his life from which he draws strength, a paladin still stands firm; his faith is the sole support he needs. No, as with all good tragedies, the paladin must be the architect of his own destruction. You can guide his hand but it must be by his hand, his will, that the pillars of his life crumble.

For instance, say the paladin's marriage is one of the foundations of his being. Kidnapping or killing his wife only leaves you with one less avenue of attack. Even if you trick him into killing her disguised as a minion, the fault ultimately lies with you and his sorrow will only empower him to defeat you. Instead you must attack the foundations of their relationship. Spread rumors of her unfaithfulness (all the better if there is truth behind them). Let the rumors that he is questioning the relationship reach her as well. Allow the doubts and anxiety to build between them to a breaking point, and manipulate the time and place of their confrontation in your favor. You want to ensure only the slightest touch will result in her demise. Say, they meet on a tall balcony. He confronts her about her unfaithfulness, and the pressure, building over so many weeks, causes her to snap. She strikes him, and runs to the edge of the balcony. He runs to her, in anger or regret, it matters not. She is too upset to face any of it, and pushes him away.. but the wood of the balcony is weak (you've made sure of that) and crumbles, and she falls, plummeting to the ground below, impaling herself on a well-placed garden stake. People will say it was an accident, but deep down he will know it was his doubt that killed her, and even the revelation that you played a part will not change that fact.

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>>54644457
Nope, it's from 2e, I just posted the 3.5 Sword and Sorcery Conversion. The Elemental Lich is a hardcore motherfucker and is for those hardcore NPCs die a lot campaigns.
That said, your post is disgusting.

>>54643626
As others have pointed out, you can't just go "Aha! You accidentally broke a rule! You're evil now!" At best this sort of approach will result in them losing powers until they can get around to getting an Atonement; it won't change their alignment.

If you really want to get a Fallen Paladin on Team Evil, you'll need to go for straight-up corruption. You need to figure out what they want, what they REALLY want, and then provide less than savory ways of obtaining it. The only way to get the women you're in love with is to kill her husband. The only way to save your friend is to accept this questionable deal for more power. Etc. etc. They need to willingly and knowingly choose to use evil methods for their own ends. This is usually a slow process that you build towards, with little steps.

Heck, you could have an entire evil campaign revolving around trying to corrupt one paladin, engineering encounters and trials for him.

>>54643626
https://trashknight.tumblr.com/page/4

>>54643626
>The only idea I have right now is to disguise an innocent as one of us and hope the Paladin has enough DIVINE RAGE to purge on sight
>>54645598
>As others have pointed out, you can't just go "Aha! You accidentally broke a rule! You're evil now!" At best this sort of approach will result in them losing powers until they can get around to getting an Atonement

>to quote the manual
>A paladin who ceases to be lawful good, who WILLFULLY commits an evil act, or who grossly violates the code of conduct loses all paladin spells and abilities

I swear you fucks don't even play the goddamn game you talk about

>>54648056
What are you talking about? Either it doesn't work vecause they were tricked, or it DOES work for some reason (Which DMs have done at times) and they Atone.

If a Paladin accidently steps on a nest of baby bunnies, they don't become blackguard.

(Note to self: fashion anti-paladin arnor made of baby bunnies)