Does anyone even fucking care about the forgotten realms lore

FR is a trash setting only loved due to nostalgia by people who grew up with it. Use a different one or make up your own.

>>54633139
If you're going to retconn 90% of the Realms, why are you even planning on running it? For most campaigns, most of the lore isn't going to be important anyway. No need to retconn it.

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>>54633139
>make up your own.
How to instantly make your players not give a shit about your game's setting. Make some homebrew crap.

>>54633139
There are a lot of people who care about Realmslore but they are faggots so you can safely disregard their opinions

You're the DM you can retcon whatever the fuck you want, if your players enjoy the game it means you're doing a good job

>>54633139
It's all bad so it should all be disregarded at will.

>>54633234
>That feel when you built the world WITH your players and all of them are super invested in it.

The feeling is good by the way.

>>54633139
forgotten realms lore is so irrelevant it was thrown into the mtg multiverse. Just do whatever

>>54633234
>Make some homebrew crap
Don't tell your players. Call it Forgotten Realms or whatever else. If they are faggots who can only eat shitty settings like FR if they are made by recognized company then let them have it. Most homebrew settings are no worse than FR.

>>54633160
>>54633267
>>54633289
>>54633322
>>54633338

You guys really need to relax. FR is one of the better kitchen sink fantasy settings, and has tons of great material. If anything, the biggest complaint would be just how much material there is, and it get's a little crazy how much is crammed into a relatively small geographic region.

You've got the Red Wizards, the Netherese Shades, the Underdark complete with incredibly detailed Drow Cities, and so on and so forth. If anything, you might actually be hating more of FR's popularity than you are the setting itself, because it commits very few egregious crimes.

>>54633221
>For most campaigns, most of the lore isn't going to be important anyway. No need to retconn it.

This. I played a long-running FR game in 2E that was all set around the Moonsea area, and I think the only canon stuff the DM used besides the map was the gods.

Youre all fucking retarded. FR is great.

>>54633897
You're on the wrong /tg/, Ed.

>>54633221

This. Don't put the cart before a horse. If you don't need 90% of the lore then just don't use the lore.

Fuck don't even have any lore. Start them off in a town with a spooky castle nearby.

>>54633922

You shut the fuck up you fucking faggot.

You are not the fucking mouthpiece for fucking /tg/

Where are you from? /a/? /pol/? /v/? How long have you even been on this board?

>>54633139
What would be one thing you're going to retcon?

>>54633959
Part of me feels like you're just having a laugh, but part of me thinks you maybe didn't get the joke.

In case you didn't get the joke, google the letters tg and notice what sites you get.

>>54634001
>google the letters tg and notice what sites you get.
Not him, but I did.
First result is
>/tg/ - Traditional Games - 4chan
second result is
>/tg/ - Traditional Games - Catalog - 4chan

>>54634029
Keep scrolling.

I assume you're familiar with the jokes about Ed Greenwood.

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Greyhawk is superior prove me wrong.
>open ended setting that's easy to insert your own stuff, just enough detail not to be overwhelmed like FR's massive clusterfuck of lore
>gritty but fantastic, not like bullshit level high fantasy that FR is
>interesting history and maps
>regions that are actually unknown and off the map relatively close to the "main" areas you'd be adventuring in. You don't have to go thousands and thousand of miles to get off the map like in FR
>created by Gary Gygax, the father of rpgs

>>54634065
A literally who tier setting, has been since 3E so only turbogrognards still use it.

>>54634054
something about him being a horndog I guess

Btw you do know that google results are tailored to your traffic right?

>>54634083
>popularity matters
Well the which setting is better then? It certainly isn't FR

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Eberron is superior prove me wrong.
>open-ended setting meant to contain everything in D&D, with tons of detail out there that can be used but isn't necessary, with huge questions left open for DMs to fill in
>capable of covering any number of genres including standard exploration, hard-boiled pulp fiction, world-spanning campaigns, high-fantasy adventure, and hard intrigue
>fantastic history and maps with a static starting year for campaigns so changes between editions is minimal
>regions that are actually unexplored can be reached in days to weeks via airship
>created by Keith Baker, a generally chill guy

>>54633968
multiple things, but the big thing would be the genasi takeover of calimport.

>>54634155
Retard tier high fantasy

So you guys might think I'm the biggest fag ever but my homebrew setting pulls from FR Greyhawk, Tal'Dorei. The Imperium of Man. Morrowind/Skyrim, and a MUD I used to play called Exile. I flat out told my players nothing is original.

>>54634155

>GUILDS!
>STEAMPUNK!
>AIRSHIPS!

It's fucking trash outside of warforged.

>>54634290
Even warforged are trash. All the steampunk wannabe stuff is autistic.

>>54634267

>So you guys might think I'm the biggest genius ever

ftfy

What the fuck happened to /tg/ while I was away?

Steal shit! Steal shit and don't stop stealing shit. You are playing this for fucking fun, not to fucking get a Pulitzer Prize

If someone says "ugh that's not original" call them a fag and that you aren't going to engage in their trolling anymore.

>>54633139
Never used it, never will.
Always make my own and steal from things that interest me.

>>54634299

>warforged
>steampunk

Why would you chose to give a badass race the faggiest form of power?

Whenever I warforged it's 100% magic. You are a fucking dumbass.

If your players aren't fanboys who read all the novels and setting splat books then none of it matters. Start them in the nentir vale, steal some gods from greyhawk, have Strahd be a masked lord of waterdeep. Whatever.

>>54634320
desu senpai it was just the tal'dorei part i felt i was going to get shit for.

>>54634065
FR is bad, but Greyhawk is boring, and that's worse.

>>54633936
So Ravenloft?

>>54633745
There's nothing fun about a world where there are so many powerful adventurers and magic users around that the the idea of any region of the world or any significant region of it being in peril, or needing adventurers to do anything of significance, other than perhaps a straight-up war between powerful factions (again, something a party of player characters could, only have very little influence on because there are so many other relatively powerful characters around) is fucking laughable.

FR is like a world of warcraft realm where everyone wears big glowy shoulderpads and has a magic cockring of fireballs, and just kind of stand in line with the other "adventurers" (read; thousands of denizens) for the mobs to respawn.

It's a theme park ride where all you really do is "Oh look it's Drizz't, oh look it's Elminster! Oh look it's ..." and pretend there's something interesting going on.
But there are no stakes. There are never any stakes. There is no conceivable reason why the PC party should ever matter or have even the slightest bit of real influence on anything until they cap out at max level, beyond perhaps bringing something that's going on to the attention of some lord, or some good dagon or goodie-two-shoe organization like the Harpers.

Maybe there's a graveyard you can clear out here, or an old dungeon you can clear out there, but you're just being the fantasy equivalent of street sweepers.

>>54634445
Ravenloft is the SHIT.

>>54634155
I think it takes a kind of interesting premise and executes it in the most basic boring way possible.

>>54634468
I whole heartedly agree. I was making a joke.

>>54634445
Every incarnation of Ravenloft is fantastic

>>54634320
But chasing the Pulitzer can be fun too.

>>54634466
Yeah it's just like how in every DC comic book the last page is always Superman flying in stopping the bad guy and leaving.

>>54634445

Nah, Crowraise.

>>54634529

Then don't fucking apologize for chasing a fucking Pulitzer.

Also don't get pissy if people don't want to play your faggy Pulitzer game

>>54634593
Blackbirdapartment

>>54634616
>Then don't fucking apologize for chasing a fucking Pulitzer.
Not that anon.

>>54634636
Parrothacienda

Are there even good D&D settings?

>>54634412
I'm actually going to have to agree with this guy. Greyhawk's got some absolute diamonds of modules, but the WoG box is really rather dull.

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>>54634707

>>54634707
Are there even any good games?

>>54634738
Is there anything good in life?

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>>54634896
No.

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>>54634402
Here you go

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>>54633139
Do it. It has 50 years of acumulated lore. That's bloated for a setting and their revamps don't quite work out. Take what you need and mix it with what you want.

>>54634529
Has any rpg campaign or adventure ever a Pulitzer?

Checking Wikipedia, I'm not even sure a Pulitzer category exists. "Drama" would be about closest.

>>54634155
Eberron aka why you don't use gamist principles to make a setting.

>>54635627
Anon aka why you don't make posts about shit you literally know nothing about.

>>54633139
Ignore the Sword Coast, that's the *really* overdeveloped part. Everything else is more sensible and interesting.

Still tied to the bullshit, so you might want to just do a different setting.

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>>54634267
Sounds like you're having fun, anon. Keep at it.

>>54635627
>gamist principles
It's a bunch of different pulp set ups rolled into one in a way that panders to the kitchen sink stuff. There's nothing especially gamist about being a detective caught up in a train robbery, bartering with monster barons for crystals made out of god-blood, or raiding tombs full of scorpion-worshipping witch doctors.

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>>54634445

>>54634065
>Greyhawk is superior prove me wrong.

Sales numbers.

>>54634468
>>54634503
>>54634445
Ravenloft is excellent as long as you're willing to take off the reigns and let PC's tackle the setting itself head on. That is to say, accept that there will be one of 3 outcomes.

1. PC's finish their adventure and the dark powers immediately vomit them back out into real space because fuck that shit

2. Strahd or Azalin dunks so hard over them your players wanna switch to Golden Sky Stories

3. Your players take it to the max and start destabilizing the whole fucking demiplane by destroying Dark Lords and fucking challenging the Dark Powers head on who start going REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE at someone messing with their lego's and what amounts to interdimensional WW1 starts as whatever beyonder cosmic treaties that let the DP's maintain their prison start getting broken or called upon leading to a clusterfuck it requires Ao or The One Above All to sort it out. After the planar equivilant of nukes get dropped on everything, your players wake up in a strange, dusty, ramshackle megacity. Welcome to Sigil.

>>54633139
FR has some golden bits, you just gotta sift through the bloat and mary sue dev/author inserts. Can we have discussions about FR or Ravenloft lore? I learned way too much about this fucking shit when I played on NWN PW's.

>>54634290
It's about the Age of Exploration and Indiana Jonesing, you cuck

>>54634065

Greyhawk is actually a really good setting. It's too bad information on it is so hard to find these days.

>>54637134
>Can we have discussions about FR or Ravenloft lore?
Sure, just gotta ask the questions and see if people are around who'll answer.

Any love for Point of Light?

>>54637237
I like 4e but know nothing of the setting beyond how BAD they fucked up the divine politics and the gods.

>>54634299
What's steampunk got to do with Eberron though?

>>54634670
Quetzalveranda

>>54637299
A New World Aztec/Inca/Mayan gothic horror setting would be pretty fucking neato (and more or less correct to their original mythology anyway)

>>54637282
>how BAD they fucked up the divine politics and the gods.
What do you mean?

>>54637366
>Tyr falls in love
>thinks he gets cucked
>kills Helm, he of the Most Fucking Based
>realizes he went oopsie
>anheroes himself
>Leaves torm in charge
>Torm's church turns into the not!Catholic douchebag church, AGAIN, just like they did during the time of troubles, AGAIN
>Mystra dies AGAIN, spellplague

>>54635179
Thank you anon, I haven't laughed that hard in a while. that pic made my day.

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>>54633139
I can't remember any of it at all, anon

>>54637394
>Tyr
>Mystra
>Spellplague
That's Forgotten Realms, not Points of Light

>>54634731
The only right answer here

>>54637438
There was a difference?

>>54637591
Yes
4e Forgotten Realms is described in only two books : FR player's handbook and FR Encyclopedia or whatstheirname
All the other books (except both Eberrons) describe Points of Light

The only good thing coming from 4e FR is the Swordmage class

>>54633139
4e gave it a good shaking at least but you can always use 1e version, which probably was the best. Or to try and continue the ideas of late 2e (printing press, firearms and whatnot) which WotC killed to cashgrab on nostalgia. Can't blame them, since look how 4e turned out.

>>54637591
Yes, Points of Light is a fan name for The Nentir Vale, information about it is a bit all over the place and it's a barebones default setting for 4e. Pockets of civilization like city-states and whatever sprinkled throughout dangerous and unexplored wilderness. It's pretty okay but you might as well come up with something like that on your own.

>>54637591
"Points of Light" is meant to be a general sort of aesthetic to drive the assumptions about the game: cities and safe places are points of light in the darkness, and for the places in between there are heroes like the player characters.

It's also used as a shorthand for a setting that was originally used as an example for how to put together 4e stuff in its DMG 1, the Nentir Vale.

>>54637640
Not quite true, there were Menzoberranzan and Neverwinter sourcebooks, plus Demonomicon.

>>54637654
>>54637642
Conceptually I like the idea but the fact it's so bare bones is why no one remembers it

>>54633959
holy shit it really is ed

>>54637671
>Barebones
Your standard for "barebones" must be pretty high compared to mine
It's true that we don't have a lot of information about the material plane but the other planes are pretty well documented, thanks to all the books

Creating a material plane is easy enough that we don't really need those informations

>>54637708
>everyone but where the players would actually probably be was described

I mean, like, I enjoy planar and expanded setting stuff, but that seems like cart before horse

>>54634466
There's actually a nice explanation, penned by Elminster, as to why the super powerful actually can't do everything, and in a way really anything except act as deterrents to other super powerful people.

At that level, they're basically living nukes, and if one decides to act directly, he basically forces the hand of all his opponents, which forces the hand of all his allies, and the entire world ends.

That's why they need to work in subtle ways and through intermediaries. That, and the whole business about Faerun being stupidly big to the point where you can't rely on just the handful of epic-level characters to solve everything.

It's a world built specifically for adventurers, and it's best not to listen to old false memes about it and to actually look into it before you write several paragraphs of utter nonsense.

>>54637757
>I mean, like, I enjoy planar and expanded setting stuff, but that seems like cart before horse
It is
But, as I said, even if it's the most used part of the setting, it's not really hard to build

>>54637802
I do like the idea of High level Wizards as WMD's in a huge game of MAD and feel like it should've come up more.

>>54637166

Yeah, and that shit ain't my D&D dagnabbit. Keep that in Savage Worlds, not my sword and sworcery.

>>54637937
Don't use that setting then

>>54634707
Eberron was mentioned above, tons of fun to be had in that one. And of course there's Spelljammer.

>>54633139

I use FR as it's useful to have a whole bunch of maps , locations , deities ( nobody wants to read your super unique homebrew pantheon of god's ) and general lore for an area that I don't have to bother with myself. I think home-brewing your own world is really a waste of time unless it's going to be drastically different and unique and if that's the case then you're not going to be running it in D&D. Most homebrew exercises are simply mental masturbation that don't translate into any meaningful play at the table and I suspect are mostly done by people who dream about running games but never do as there's always a focus on inane details that nobody at the table will care about or probably even be able to interact with in a meaningful way.

Idon't run any of the named FR characters and I edit and make up lore to fit whatever is happening within my own game as well. FR is basically just a generic fantasy land setting I can use as a springboard for other ideas.

Likewise none of my players are lorefags in regards to FR which helps.

>>54638055
>Homebrewing is bad
>I homebrew my own alternate version of FR
Which is it?

>>54633338
Most are better.

>>54638006
>Spelljammer
Maybe when WotC lets it out of the basement where they keep all the dreams and happiness.

>>54637670
Demonomicon was basically the Abyss follow-up to the Elemental Chaos & Manual of the Planes splats, it was Nentir Vale/PoL setting, not Faerun-setting.

>>54637237
Absolutely fucking ADORED that setting. I came into the game with 3e, but Nentir Vale was the first setting that truly felt like "home" to me, although Mystara and Eberron were okay secondary fits.

The original gray box is great.

I did. I set the Realms in an age that entered a long winter, which means it made sense that the sword coast is composed of mostly city-states.

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>>54635787
Baker is explicit that he made Eberron from the 3e rules backwards, trying to devise a world where that retarded system makes sense (that isn't the Tippyverse).

>>54638095

Taking an existing setting and tweaking it for your needs in actual play isn't really home-brewing an entire world from scratch.

>>54639209
Still works better in 4e

and I don't even like 4e, it just fits really, really nicely with the Eberron setting

>>54639209
That still doesn't make it gamist--whether something is gamist is in the execution, not the conceptualization of its setting.

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>>54633139
I find it depends which Calimport you're using.

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>>54640978
Or if you prefer going even older.

>>54633139

Im not Ed Greenwood or a fan of his in the 90s so no and I dont give a flying fuck about his characters or novels over my own games

>>54641030
Honestly, that's probably how he would say it should be.
Most of his older musings on the subject suggest that the amount of super wizards running around is a mistake as he much preferred the idea of focusing on the day to day life of townsfolk, nomads, vikings, etc in different parts of the realms because he's absolutely anal about going into details for everything ever, but TSR said they wanted more super wizards.
Then that Salvatore guy showed up.


Also in two different volo's guides, Volo discusses how the novels are shit and questionable if canon, in the second case he even reminds that by FR canon all novels are vetted by the actual Elminster himself before they show up in our world, so they're all biased towards him and his friends.

>>54634155
The important thing about Eberron is that it was designed to avoid two big pitfalls of Forgotten Realms. First is that the setting doesn't have many high-level characters running around. Second is that novels aren't canon, so the setting doesn't have to keep taking into account all the shitty fluff and Mary Sue characters being inserted by hack writers.

>>54641094
Yeah, no evolving plotlines to get tangled up in outside of your own group's. It makes it a lot easier to actually bring to the table and just "go".

Where's the best book for Ravenloft lore? (Not just Strahd'd Barovia)

>>54641200
And yet there's enough tension built into the setting that creating plotlines is easy

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How much of your setting do you build before the first session? Newbie DM here.

>>54633139
400+ Books.
Not even including the actual fucking campaign books for editions 1-3.5.
Liches everywhere.
Druid Liches.
Vampires using phylacteries
Mystra and her bullshit
Homebrew Elder Evil
Drizzt
The cosmic cancer that is the ultimate shithole, Waterdeep
Underdeveloped areas
Only three vampires that were ever relevant in the entire setting.
Spontanius fucking Liches
Gods so awful you'd feel more at home with the Archdevil of the 10th layer who killed a Demon pretending to be an Archdevil and became a Demigod
Oversaturated in magic
THE CULT OF THE FUCKING DRAGON, FUCK THIS ENTIRE THING, FUCK IT IN EVERY EDITION, FUCK IT'S OVERSATURATED DRACONIC AUTISM, FUCK TIAMAT, FUCK SAMMASTER AND FUCK DRACOLICHES

FR is literally the Fantasy Version of Detroit. Greyhawk is better, and derserved more licensed games in it's setting, it's just less cluttered overall and the deities aren't the worst cunts ever to divine. Fuck Elminster, he's the most pozzed boggled batshit insane wizard ever, "Want a horrible evil spell? sure, let me narrate it to you, reader! I

Also, Tharizdun, FR doesn't have a deity that fucking top level eldritch, and the vampires are given their dues on the BBEG list, next to Demogorgon, Graz'z't Iggwilv, and more, And FUCKING MURLYND AND HIS GUNS.

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>>54642303
Dependent on whether it's a dungeon crawl or active exploration through the world really.

The most important subjects at hand come to how you intend to use NPCs and monsters and whether or not knowing the infinite expanse of their intrigue is important to adventure context.


>>54641226
3.5 Sword and Sorcery did a complete timeline of Ravenloft (up to their version) .pdf file. It's quite accurate

>>54642303
As little as I can. Just having an understanding of how to portray things in your starting area and what adventure hooks there are is enough for the first session or two. Have a few NPCs for the party to rub talk to or have conflict with, too.

As the campaign goes just keep filling in blanks and building layers of setting out from that starting point as needed or as the spirit takes you.
It helps make sure everything feels appropriate and relevant, and stops you from being overwhelmed or burned out. You can make sure there's variety and that players have a reason to bring their characters around to the really cool shit by baking in a bit of relevance to them (not that that'll guarantee they follow every lead, or anything).

>>54642522
>rub talk to
Guh, that was supposed to be either "rub shoulders with" or "talk to", not whatever the fuck rub-talking is.
I need to go to bed.

>>54642303
I build a single town and a single "adventure area" outside of the town, a dungeon, forest, mountain cave, whatever

>>54642560
>>54642522
>>54642516
Huh. Would you recommend doing the same for a newbie DM or is this something y'all can pull off with the experience you've got? I'm running an exploration game, if that helps.

>>54642581
>Adventure game

You are new, do not do this

Give them a plot point, let them follow the plot point, but leave things open so you can interpret their interpretations into the plot

>>54641094
That's one of my favourite parts of it. The highest level Cleric is a little girl who can't leave her cathedral without losing most of her powers. (Jaela Daran, originally statted using PC class levels. Still a lv3 Cleric outside the Flamekeep, which is impressive for someone her age.) Likewise, the highest level Druid is a tree, not a Treant but an awakened tree, and will not be turning up on any of your adventures. The highest level Sorcerer is locked up in magical Spandau for being an enormous magical dick.

>>54641484
Tension, plus the fact that there's no canon answer to certain key questions, like "who created the Mournland"?

I think I'm going to convert and run the Eberron adventure path that starts with The Forgotten Forge for people at work. We'll see how that goes.

>>54637802
>At that level, they're basically living nukes, and if one decides to act directly, he basically forces the hand of all his opponents, which forces the hand of all his allies, and the entire world ends.
That's too vague and doesn't actually mean anything.

>>54642476
You understand that the reason why Greyhawk is less cluttered is because it's less popular, possibly because it's less good, right? No one wanted to do anything in Greyhawk, so as a result Greyhawk was never developed.

>>54642846
Go play Neverwinter Online, and then compare it to Baldurs gate.

Despite the massive glaring lore errors, prett NWO is what FR is now as a campaign at large.

>>54641078
>but TSR said they wanted more super wizards
More specifically, Elminster sells. So they wanted Elminster books. Apparently he preferred writing stuff about a swashbuckling Mirt getting into and out of trouble up and down the Sword Coast.

>>54642749
Eberron's highest level cleric is actually currently stuck in magic prison as well. She's a 21st level caster. That's assuming you don't count the sheer bullshittium that is the Rakshasa Rajahs and their minions, or that fucking crazy city on the southern continent that's run by level 25-30 characters and where the average citizen has about as many levels as the Lord of Blades.

>>54642869
Greyhawk is objectively better. Popularity has nothing to do with it. FR was popular and then got way too cluttered

>>54637802
Not only does that not make sense, but if it did it would be admitting that PCs are basically pawns in a giant chess tournament run by greater forces such as Elminster and Szass Tam, with them as Kings & Queens.

Which sucks ass.

>>54645321
>it would be admitting that PCs are basically pawns in a giant chess tournament run by greater forces such as Elminster and Szass Tam

And what exactly is problem with that, autismo?
And why doesn't that make sense? You're not even explaining anything, just throwing around "it's bad because I say it's bad!" arguments.
Take off your edgy d&d hating contrarian glasses and try to fucking explain your point.

>>54634334
They are magic though. Where are you getting that they're steam-powered?

>>54633234
Nobody gives a shit about any of the premade D&D settings either, so there's no change either way.

>>54637802
>>54634466
Explanation or not, it's really just the same thing Shadowrun has. There are vastly stupidly powerful beings in the world who could do whatever the fuck they wanted to and get away with it, assuming the other stupidly powerful beings don't do anything about it.

I think the only reason the whole "Elminster/Drizzt/Harpers showing up everywhere to deal with everything" complaint comes up is because of Bad DMs, people regurgitating the same shit, and because people assume that every NPC is going to operate on 3e rules and be optimized around 3e rules.

>>54642303
A large part of the stuff I prepare is only the names that I'm going to use and that only because I have a hard time improvising names. After making a large list of the names that sounds cool to me, I roughly plan how everything supposed to interact and connect with each other. And then I prepare short descriptions of the places that will be accessible to the players a few days before each session.

Besides that, I build everything else on the spot and the world is fleshed out depending on what the players decide to explore, I also use a lot of random stuff generators.
If I need a few minutes to prepare something more complex in the middle of the session, I just call a short eating brake and use that to prepare stuff in my head.
The players can't tell the difference between a completely improvised adventure and a prepared one, in the end, what makes it good or bad is how you present it to them.
Sandboxey adventures are more fun for me as a DM and the players like it too.
Building a lot of shit in advance can get frustrating for the DM and boring the players.
I just say fuck that.

If you're improvising something and want your players to think you had that planned all along, or want to give it an ominous feeling, there's a trick that always works with me: describe everything in the most detailed way that you can come up with. Don't be afraid of committing mistakes, your players will overthink the stuff that you just said and won't notice if you fuck up.

And a trick that I use to avoid fatally contradicting myself every now and then is recording each session and writing a summary of it later on. I use that to guide myself when they're coming back to somewhere they've been before or meeting a person they've met before.

A trick to keep players interested is giving them "gifts", like useful items, magical gear, or just make random shit on the spot, even if you have nothing prepared for it. That helps them grow attached to the character.

Good luck, I guess.

>>54646236
>eating break

>>54643600
And Greyhawk wasn't popular and so didn't get cluttered. And it wasn't popular because it wasn't good.

>>54633139
The second ed lore was good however some of the shit in the later part of the 3rd ed print run was shit. 4th ed has a lot of 'but why' issues and does not make much sense to old or new players.

>>54634065
>Prove me wrong
Oearth

>>54634320
my fantasy world is just the death gate cycle, and no one has caught on yet
>feelsgoodman

>>54634707
Darksun
Ravenloft

>>54634707
Why is everything related to D&D bad? Right guys? I also happen to hate D&D!
Am I part of the team yet?

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>>54645321
At the same time, they can be a rogue knight in the grand game of chess, the piece that tips the balance because no one accounted for it. More importantly,how is it different from any other campaign setting? Apparently, the only real difference is that the people in power in Faerun actually are famous enough for their names to be known, and maybe, perhaps, the players can become aware of the invisible hands guiding the greater powers of the continent.

As for it not making sense, Elminster explains all the points a little better.

>>54634466
>Look its Drizzt

My DM did that once. Here's the thing though. Drizzt is rather low power. No magic and all. He can't keep up with anything that a high level party deals with.

He almost died helping us fight a dragon

>>54634466
>There's nothing fun about a world where there are so many powerful adventurers and magic users around that the the idea of any region of the world

1. that very much is a issue of were you put the campaign at. There is some lower level areas.
2. FR is aimed at higher level play
3. If you do play at lower levels in place made for high level play the weight of the world is not on your PCs back rather it is the weight of what is in front of them. For level 5 think "save the caravan" or " save the small fishing village" not I am going to save a mid sized city.

>>54646847
>We're so strong that we can't fight unless it's 100% chance of victory, let's send low level chumps to do it.
>We can never know the consequences of our actions even if they appear good, but it's all right to send 4 random murderhobos instead of us to do it.
>People might not like our methods and stop us on that point alone. But nobody is bothered when you send random villagers who just picked up a sword, nobody has ANY objections to that?
>Even doing small things is a threat to others, but sending adventurers who will one day be as strong as you to another kingdom to solve their problems is clearly unrelated.

So from what I gather, there are no high level Paladins in Faerun or else they would be too-chivalrous-for-this-shit.jpg and not give a fuck and be killed. And also that once you reach a certain power level, you are basically forced by your peers to give up adventuring and such in order to play politics?

>>54647180
>there are no high level Paladins in Faerun
There is one that I know of, a level 25 paladin that is a king in the far north (where he means literally nothing at all oddly enough) that cleansed Castle Perilous and slapped some demon lords around.
But yeah, rather than deus vulting about, or even being a patron to others who want good for the realms, he is the reining king of a utter backwater territory.

>>54646988
I will contest that the setting is aimed at higher level play.
While there are a number of epic level npcs, much of the setting is populated by single digit npcs and people of note. Eberron has a higher overall power level and presence of supernatural affairs.
I think the illusion of FR being higher power stems from the focus of the novels and written material being around a number of powerful npcs (that happen to be developer's pets or former pcs).

>>54633745
>Spell Plague
>Time of Troubles
>Elminster in Hell
>Cyrinishad
>War of the Spider Queen

Just a sampling of all the dumb shit that's happened in FR.

>>54633221
Concise.

FR is the kitchen sink. Everything is there. Find the things you want within. Use them.

Retcons don't need to happen. Just take what you want and leave the rest behind.

>>54634155
Steampunk pig disgusting

>>54647349
Set it before those things. Or simply ignore them.

Problem solved.

I've been playing in FR for 20 years and never once even referenced any of them, except in the very minor "the gods mentioned in the Revised setting are the version we're using" way.

>>54647389
The time span between all those is pretty varied. Like, the Time of Troubles and the Trial of Cyric (Cyrinishad being written) happen pretty close, Spell Plague was 4E's garbage dump onto FR lore that trashed a lot of what was working fine just to inject their gods vs. primordials baseline from the corebook.

>>54647180
You're sort of misconstruing what's being said there.

It's basically "We don't solve every problem, and here's why. Don't act like the world should have had all of its problems solved by the 'mighty'. I'm Elminster and I'm a sour old man."

Also, there's several high ranking paladins, though the one that comes to mind ended up becoming a blackguard and savaging a region atop of a white nightmare. Still, there's a monarch who is a Purple Dragon Knight, which is close to a paladin.

> And also that once you reach a certain power level, you are basically forced by your peers to give up adventuring and such in order to play politics?

Typically, they involve themselves with DEEP shit. Searching for powerful artifacts, hunting for forbidden knowledge, journeying into the depths of the underdark or visiting other planes of existence.
It's less retire from adventuring, and more "stop going out to fight every group of bandits or hunting every goblin, and leave the rats in the cellars to other people."

>>54647349
>Time of Troubles
What? That shit was awesome.

>>54634707
I like the IDEA of Spelljammer

>>54647501
It was a half-baked attempt to rip off RuneQuest.

>>54647539
How so?

>>54645321
>but if it did it would be admitting that PCs are basically pawns in a giant chess tournament

By the time the PCs are powerful enough to even enter into the radar of folk like Elminster and Szass Tam, they're chess players themselves. Assuming that Elminster and Szass Tam don't have other shit to do, or don't even notice what's going on.

The world is bigger than the player characters, it doesn't revolve around them. They're the stars of the show, but not the center of the stage.

>>54647522
When it's played like a combination of Star Trek: The Original Series and Dr. Who ('88) it's amazing.

>>54647547
It tried to inject every faerunian god into the world, living out their portfolio and it's never really given an adequate explanation, so it's not like they're enacting their own cycle of creation like in RQ, it's basically "Because Ao decided it'd be funny" that the entire world is thrown into turmoil.

>>54637237
It gives Dragonborn a reason to be around?
Other than that I found it mostly generic which isn't the worst in the world if you're willing to build off it

>>54637802
>Time Stop
>Teleport
>Save or Die
>Save or Die
>Save or Die
>Save or Die

>>54647616
>and it's never really given an adequate explanation

When you reduce it down to half a sentence, anything can sound vague and stupid.

>The Time of Troubles was precipitated by an attempt by two of the settings' deities, the gods Bane and Myrkul, to steal the Tablets of Fate from the overgod Ao. The tablets were created by Ao and delineated the areas of responsibilities given to each deity: his or her "portfolio" over which each of the gods of the Forgotten Realms have domain. Angry with the gods for their habitual pursuit of power and negligence toward their mortal faithful, the theft of the Tablets resulted in Ao banishing all of the gods save Helm (selected to protect the gates to the heavens) to take on avatars and live as mortals on Toril.

>>54647377
Eberron has literally nothing to do with steampunk.

>>54638055
Its nice having maps, places, and vague politics in play that you can build off of

>>54647669
>airships
>clockworkmen
>goblin mechanics
Are you retarded?

>>54647470
Well anyone playing 4e needs to retcon more than just the setting they're using.

But it isn't hard to put a game in the 13th century and utterly ignore every FR novel of consequence, without even having to ignore the events.

>>54647668
Not hi, but here's what I find weird.
>Two evil gods commit an evil act, and attempt to steal more power from their boss
>"Two of you guys who are literally evil tried to steal from me, so I'm punishing the REST of you because I feel like it!"

>>54647663
Elminster, Szass Tam, etc., are more than capable of casting a permanent dimensional lock on a location, or have contingencies in place to deal with these situations, like allies who will revive them if they are killed.

This is leaving aside the issue that Szass Tam is a lich. Scry and Die isn't effective against him due to, y'know, the phylactery.

>>54647690
I could ask the same.
>Steampunk
>Everything is powered by steam

>Eberron
>Everything is powered by magic
You can't even get the most basic difference down. You really should stop trying.

>>54647690
None of it is steam powered.

>>54647753
Generally acting like assholes was something all the gods had been doing. Bane and Myrkul were just the last straw. Also, no one has ever claimed that Ao was a nice guy.

>>54647776
>>54647785
This is the lamest defense, and Eberron-fags can't seem to help themselves.

>Well sure the technology, art, style, societies, tropes, items and themes are 100% on the goth-for-fat-dudes fad that is steampunk. But we used magic instead of coal so it's totally, completely different! Because the whole thing hinges on the word "steam," not the technology, art, style, societies, tropes, items and themes.

>>54647690
>Airships that are powered by trapped elementals, summoned from another plane
>Living robots created via magic that can be healed through the same magic that works on other living beings
>People who can fix magic items

>>54647776
Yeah, okay. Manapunk. Enjoy your semantic victory.

>>54647663
>trigger several contingency spells, with one trapping you in a timeless state and then being pulled into the center of the earth while your target reforms from their secret phylactery
>or another teleporting your target the instant before they would have died before setting off another series of contingency spells that destroy whatever building you happen to be in
>or you actually manage to succeed in killing your target, and inadvertently awaken all of his stasis clones simultaneously and they plunge the surrounding regions into utter chaos as they wage war to prove who is the "true" successor

High level Faerun is Bullshit of the highest order.

>>54647828
Iron Kingdoms is steampunk, and garbage. Eberron is steampunk with the serial numbers filed off and garbage.

>>54647872
The level 100 adventures for AD&D were kinda neat, though.

>>54647888
Accurate.

>>54647872
>Actually going to kill your rival off by yourself
>Not sending in simulacrums/actual clones to do it
>Not being a lich yourself so they can't really kill you
But this probably proves the point that high-level conflicts would be wack, which also proves the point that the high level NPC's shouldn't be so prominent.

>>54647828
It actually doesn't even really resemble the steampunk aesthetic. The airships actually manage to be their own thing. The lightning rail looks like something out of a post-apocalypse. And the clothing styles of Eberron look more like the Renaissance, or Tudor rather than Victorian England.

>>54647928
And so they aren't. I can't actually think of a single adventure in which a high-level NPC plays a prominent role.

>>54647969
Don't bother replying to him. He'll just keep going "lolsteampunk!!!!" while ignoring the actual components of the setting that make it great (competing intrigue groups, widely varied areas and backstories to go, various powerful evils to use that are actually presented well, open-ended questions in a static setting, warforged as a new race in the world, etc.).

>>54647996
Fair point. I'm just theorizing.

>>54647928
They're more lore than anything else. They're famous, but you can play from 1-20 without encountering anyone famous if the DM felt like it.

And, "How do we kill Elminster?" is a classic thought exercise, and one that Ed Greenwood spent a fair amount of time developing a series of modest counters for. I say modest, because we're talking about only things like unique level 9 spells, artifacts, the blessings of a deity of magic, all the DM fiat a prideful man could produce, yet still killable as long as you knew the appropriate counters (and what you needed to counter).

>>54648002
Doesn't work because you're lying to yourselves..

It's steamshit garbage.

You're fat.

No one likes you.

>>54648028
Another thing to consider is that FR originated in AD&D, where saves are actually really easy to make at high levels, especially if you're a fighter.

>>54648109
As Greenwood puts it, FR originated before he even knew what D&D was, it's why there are examples of Elminster despite being a great and mighty wizard, getting fucked over by bandits or needing to rely on scrolls.
And why Lathander shows up to compete with mortals at the olympic games and it's not just an instant blow out.

>>54647753
That was a "straw that broke the camel's back" type situation - Ao was mostly pissed that his attempt to keep some order in the goddamn heavens had led to pretty much all the deities engaging in endless squabbling over portfolios to the degree that they were paying very little attention to their actual mortal followers like they were supposed to. He cast them all down to the mortal realm to force them to slum it a bit and reconnect with their fanbases.

>>54648109
A wizard or rogue at max-possible level has a 40% chance to insta-die on a save vs death.

>>54646518
Nobody I have ever met even knew what the death gate cycle even was.

>>54648611
That's because the authors are hacks who have been coasting for thirty years on having written one good adventure, once.

>>54648634
I really liked death gate....

>>54648796
I really liked the Kushiel's Legacy series--no judgement. It's cool to both 1) Recognize garbage 2) Enjoy garbage.

A beach read is a perfectly acceptable thing to read on a beach.

>>54647828
goth for fat dudes is just goth

>>54649863
That's not entirely unfair.

Eberron's great. Ignore whiners who call it steampunk (cause that's wrong) and then judge it by the supposed fanbase of steampunk genre.

>>54651143
>I know: I'll just say some stuff!
>That'll make it true!

Sky pirates in airships fighting clockwork androids in the soot-covered streets?

It's steampunk. And you're all super gay. Not the "I am a dude who like penises" kind of "gay." You're the "this is the most insulting thing I can think of to say to you" kind of gay.

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>>54651233
>Sky pirates in airships fighting clockwork androids in the soot-covered streets
>Sky Pirates in Eberron

>>5465125
>Sky Pirates in Eberron
>is literally every adventure published for it

I think you left out part of your sentence, so I fixed it for you.

>>54651284
Show me an Eberron adventure that features "Sky Pirates", anon. Open up the modules and give us some proof.

>>54633139
There are, but they're the kind of people who would rather argue like a pack of idiots than play an actual game with real people making actual characters who are involved in a plot that won't just get solved by some author-insert NPC with a dozen classes.

Get Eberron, read the core (or just read the timeline and skim the other plot stuff), you'll have enough ideas by the end of that to run three games.

>>54651308
Gross. Why? No one wants to read that shit. Pick your nose and be better satisfied. Or maybe your butt, then nose. You could play with poop and boogers at the same time! Doesn't that sound better than reading about Eberron?

>>54651376
Here's your (you)
>Hurr every published adventure has SKY PIRATES in it, this setting is steampunk
>Then cite your sources
>I can't!

>>54651233
>If I yell "it's steampunk!" enough it'll magically become true!
Shut the fuck up. Do you even know what steampunk is? Eberron is roughly a post-WW1 europe+north america, there's no steam or clockwork or any of the drudgery and banal factory deaths associated with victorian england and the industrial revolution. It's *vaguely* -punk but only in the same ways that all D&D games are -punk of some sort since you're playing adventurers. You sound like one of those faggots who looked at the cover and declared himself an expert.

>>54651410
>lol it's only "steampunk" if we pretend that "steampunk" does conflate WWI with the Victorian period, which we all know it constantly does
>so therefore it's not that thing 'cuz lemme redefine it

>>54651406
>If you don't provided me sources of the things that I know are true, then I get to pretend that they don't exist
>because, luckily for me, the entire universe is basically an X-topic-I-want-to-discuss 101 course

>>54651457
>Show me an example of sky pirates in eberron
>NOBODY WANTS TO READ THAT SHIT, EBERRON STINKY POO POO
>Show us some examples of sky pirates to back your claump. Or can you?
>Y-Y-You know I'm right, there are sky pirates in every eberron adventure! [Strawmans]
I don't want to to try and interpret your inane logic, and the thread's already been shitted up enough. Here's my last reply. Adios!

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>>54633139
Only played one game in FR, everything else has been homebrews/reskinning splats from other systems/taking directly from any other source

If your group wants to play Arthurian Camelot where splashing water on a rock summons a knight to go jousting with, go balls deep into that. Or if they want to play Conan, stick your campaign in Hybrorean age.

The long story short is that if you're worried about your group wanting to play in your world, go ask your group. Its not hard to make anything D&D flavored to the eyes of people that aren't steeped in its worlds - just joke about justifications on the fly, keep those jokes as in-group running gag explanations, and add owlbears, random Greco-Roman creatures, and beholders. Shit, it worked for pic related

>>54647492
>>54647229
I can kind of understand the "you have better things to be doing" idea, but at the same time the new 5e module coming out makes it kind of weird on that level, since I can't imagine much "better things to be doing" when from what I've heard the plot is literally "Everybody who has ever been resurrected is slowly turning back into a corpse, and nobody can be resurrected. Go solve it you band of level 5-ish adventurers!"

Which is kind of why I brought up Paladins. Because maybe it's just my headcanon/preferred reading of the idea of a Paladin of Good/Devotion/whatever, but the idea is that there is ALWAYS time for the little good deeds. Unless somebody is physically incapable of diverting for the tiniest amount of time. When you're low level it's taking 30 seconds to rescue a pet from a tree, when you're high level it's taking a 5-10 minute detour to offer the bandit camp mercy and a chance at redemption before clearing out the criminals and moving on your way.

Sure, not everybody can be superman and be almost everywhere at once, but being a heroic figure/paladin means doing good at every opportunity.

>>54647690
Is Eberron vaguely/heavily influenced by the industrial revolution and classism?

>>54647898
>Fucking Throne of Bloodstone
Faerun is a fucking non-coherant MMO full of bad conflicting lore I swear to god.

>>54642303
>>54642560
This

The perk of using FR is there's a big fuckoff map of existing places. I found a place on the outskirts of populated areas, which is "canonically" overrun with monsters, changed it to plop a couple towns in, and there's my setting.

>>54637802
That's idiotic though. Elminster is not actually a nuclear bomb. He can cast whatever spell level is necessary to deal with a problem, and 90% of the time whoever is causing trouble doesn't have a huge network of allies unless we're talking a bout a war.

Nobody is going to care that elminster blew up some kuo toa who were getting uppity, or killed a lich.

That cold war comparison just fucking daft

>>54646847
This reads like a hack writer trying to cover his ass. It isn't even remotely a believable or sufficient explanation.

There are other people than elminster. The way the world is set up, there are always going to be hundreds of high-to-epic-level NPCs, many of them in factions who can deal with any serious threat to the public.
And they will do so, because it is a threat to the public.

There's no credible reason why the PCs would even be trusted to do anything of any significance, when there are alternatives like that.

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>>54654310
>but being a heroic figure/paladin means doing good at every opportunity.

Isn't that the kind of mindset that leads to burnt-out paladins and blackguards?

>>54655957
That's... the perk of every established setting in the world, in no way unique to FR

>>54656076
>there are always going to be hundreds of high-to-epic-level NPCs
Consider this for a moment: Of the 60 heroic NPCs profiled in the 2e supplement Heroes' Lorebook, not even half of them are above level 10. Elminster's also not the highest-level guy in there, The Simbul's got a level on him.

>>54656076
>many of them in factions who can deal with any serious threat to the public.

I don't think you realize what kind of threats Faerun deals with.

Aside from stuff like the Time of Troubles where even Gods couldn't handle half the shit that was going down, the daily problems of Faerun include Dracolich worshipping cults resurrecting dragons into physical gods, criminal networks with entire countries backing them, a country of wizards who are slowly gaining control of vast regions through social and economic policies abroad that make them highly valued allies despite their country being a despotic magrocracy, visitors from other planes of existence conquering cities in days and then slowly expanding their influence, and the entirety of the mess that is the Underdark.

With all that, there's still orc tribes and giants threatening the commonfolk, along with greater threats that can fester in a forgotten corner of the world somewhere.

And, as far as factions go, one of the common jokes about the Harpers is how they tend to die rather quickly if word gets out that they're a harper. This is a world where goodly folk have no shortage of enemies to contend with, and most countries are actually neutral in alignment because pragmatism is vital to survival, and helping out your neighbors may lead to your own ruin.

> It isn't even remotely a believable or sufficient explanation.

I'd say read it again, but do it after you learn a little more about the setting so you have better context of what is being said.

>>54633139
>Does anyone even fucking care about the forgotten realms lore
Not since they turned Thay into undead-central.

>>54656039
What happens after he's expended a decent portion of his spells for the day, and Szass or Manshoon or whoever comes rolling in on top of him with a full complement ready to go?

That said, the assumption that he would care 99% of the time is kind of ridiculous. He's a wizard, not a god, no matter which of them likes him. There's a finite limit to the amount he can do in any one day, and he probably prefers to spend said days actually, you know, living his life, researching new magic, maybe teaching, maybe just sitting out in his garden and reading a book, because everybody needs a holiday now and again.

>>54656557
>implying that's one of the main issues

>>54634412
>but Greyhawk is boring
The original Greyhawk that Gygax actually ran at this table sounded insanely fun though.
>Church of Crom, Scientist.
>Church of the Latter Day Old Ones, the big bads.
>Castle Greyhawk the megadungeon with all it's glorious insanity like Bottle City, Garden of the Plant Master, Dunegonland, the Mechanical level etc.

The published boxsets aren't terribly interesting though I agree. (but I think the same goes for FR, the only thing saving FR is the CRPGs that made good use and expanded the interesting bits of the setting)

>>54634707
Wilderlands of High Fantasy.
Tekumel: Emperor of the Petal Throne. (the original one)
Mystara has it's great bits (Karameikos is the usual favourite) even if the overall setting is a bit all-over the place.

>>54633234
You must have either had a shit DM or were a shit DM because homebrew is fucking delicious with the right cook.

>>54637285
I don't think anyone complainin has actually done more than look at the cover of the setting book