EDH/Commander General /edhg/

>>54601730
Thread Question:
What are your favorite mana rocks?
Tangleroot

If I use a wrath effect, do I get to choose the order that cards get sent to the graveyard? Is it the same for Black Sun's Zenith?

>>54601751
No. All the cards are put in their owners graveyards simultaneously.

>>54601760
I mean the physical stacking in the graveyard.

>>54601745
>What are your favorite mana rocks?
Signets. Brewing Mono color for the first time right now, and it's hell.

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>>54601730
Talismans are underrated. It's a shame they're only allied.

>>54601795
You chose the order your creatures go to the graveyard in case of simultaneous death.

>>54601730
>What are your favorite mana rocks?

Grim Monolith. It's a perfect card.

>>54601795
>404.3. If an effect or rule puts two or more cards into the same graveyard at the same time, the owner of those cards may arrange them in any order.

You're all set then.

>>54601730
Is this the Ramos from those ramos artifacts?

>>54601695
help senpai

>>54601818
>no Izzet talisman of ingenuity
JUST

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>>54601838
Yeah. Fun fact, they're all part of The Legacy.

>>54601834
>>54601825
Corpse Dance here I come.

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>>54601805

I don't see why everybody likes signits so much. Sure, they are cheap, but they require an extra mana source to activate, so if you have no lands, or another rock, they are useless.

>>54601871
>B
>G
>U
>W
>R

What the fuck, Karn?

>>54601903

Because they are a cheap mana-fixing rock that adds 2 colours rather than one or the other. Let's you turn any colourless-producing land into what you need to play multicolour cards.

As an aside: it's always a bit annoying that Cluestones are not actually clue subtype. Wouldn't do much mechanically but it triggers my autism.

>>54601941
They predate the Clue subtype.
They're not as liberal with putting new noncreature subtypes on old cards.

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>>54601903
What do you think you're casting signets with? Lotus Petals? Simian Spirit Guides? Dark Rituals?

The real problem with them is that they only produce a set pair of mana. I'd love some new signets that function like the lorwyn-shadowmoor filterlands.

Jesus Christ WOTC reprint these things already it's been a fucking decade

>try out Grenzo Doomsday
>second game get Swamp, Ancient Tomb, Vamp Tutor, Dark Ritual
Jesus, I feel dirty.

>>54601982
>new signets that function like the lorwyn-shadowmoor filterlands

WotC barely prints CMC 2 rocks that tap for {C} anymore. You're looking at at least 3 for this.

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>>54601982
>yfw the dragon c17 deck comes with all 10 filter lands and you didnt preorder yet

>>54601962

Oh yeah, I'm aware of that. Hence why it mostly just triggers my autism, since they very much are the inspiration for how clues later worked.

>>54602006
standard was a mistake.

>>54602010
>inb4 it just has three of the Odyssey filterlands, Caves of Koilos, and a Dragonskull Summit.

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>>54602006
>tfw unironically find myself playing Fractured Powerstone in Kozilek

I've activated the planar die ability in exactly one game, so that was nice.

>>54602042
>khans life lands, guildgates, soi/emn tap lands and cycling tap lands
Ftfy

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>>54602042
You can bet on Haven.
Possibly Crucible too.
Maybe Ancient Ziggurat.

For $30 is it worth buying the yidris, saskiya, or gay king c-16 precons?

>>54602073
Cavern of souls, dragon precon is now $100 Wizardbux

>>54602089
Compare for yourself.
https://www.mtggoldfish.com/price/Sealed+Product/Commander+2016+Entropic+Uprising#paper

https://www.mtggoldfish.com/articles/commander-2016-preview-open-hostility-saskia-the-unyielding

https://www.mtggoldfish.com/price/Sealed+Product/Commander+2016+Stalwart+Unity#paper

Saskia has the best value overall, but Yidris has the most expensive single cards. Kings are trash.

>>54602091
That's why it's not happening.

>>54602073
Just imagine if it had any tribal cards at all in the deck
>coat of arms
>door to destinies
>shit even dragon crucible
But it will just be 5c assjank

>>54602137
Door is like a $4-$5 card, so that's entirely possible.
Coat was recently printed in Mind vs. Might, so it could happen but it's not unnecessary.
Assuming you mean Crucible of Fire, I wouldn't want that wasting a rare slot.

What it's actually looking like, from the spoiler, is that they stuffed as many Legendary Dragons as possible in there, so anyone who buys the thing could make like 20 some odd different dragon decks if they wanted.

>>54601730
Haha, OP, you seemed to have forgotten the Discord info. Here it is:

/tg/ EDH General Discord
https://discord.gg/4f4gz

Don't beat yourself up about it though. Just try to be less forgetful next time.

>>54602055
are you finnish? but aside from that, Fractured Powerstone is pretty good. Arguably better than Diamond cycle

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>>54602089
All of them are great for parts, but it really depends on what parts you need. Kings have a lot of grouphug, pillowfort, and stax parts. Saskia has plenty of creature-based things and some good lands, and Yidris has a lot of single, high-value cards like Chromatic Lantern, wheels, etc.

>>54602137
It's what a precon built around Scion would look like. Fitting, since Scion's in the deck. I'd actually expect Door or Coat to show up in one of these decks, but only in one of them because fuck you preorder them all.

>>54602073
There's a Crucible thrown in.

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>>54601982
these lands are way too expensive and this is the only instance where I feel like fetch lands need to be reprinted until they come down in cost, they're an absolute staple its heinous printing them in rare. Ive probably spent 1k on fetch lands already this year

Im particularly salty because I had to get eight more fetches for my mill deck for maximum cheesing at my local tournaments. God bless you Fraying Sanity you beautiful enchant, Duskmantle + Mind Crank jank can just be replaced by Traumatize sideboard for instant faggot supreme wins against particularly scrub decks. Its incredible that mill is so goddamn expensive when it sucked for so long.

Can someone link me a non Zombie Kalitas deck please?

>want to make 5c Ramos +1/+1 goodstuff

I know there's basically nothing to go on, but do people think it'll be worth buying the UrDragon precon just for Ramos and the land base and dropping the rest of the dragons as trade jank?

I just won with a worldslayer after getting my avacyn stolen by corrupted conscience. Never under estimate sfm!

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>>54601858

What is the most expensive Card in any of your EDH decks?

>>54603702
beta timetwister

>>54603702
Underground sea

I've started playing BUG, time to end it.

>>54603702
Unlimited Bayou.

>>54603702
Serra's sanctum

I have a hard time justifying it, but it was the only way to make blaxos playable in casual.

>>54603792
>MP $45
>Post-Theros
I mean, I guess it's really only played in Enchantress decks, but...

Huh.

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>>54603702
Foil Gaea's Cradle. I remember buying it for under a hundred.

>>54603702
Scalding Tarn.

http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/24-07-17-mayael-the-anima/

I recently made some changes to this deck, does anyone have any recommendations of stuff that I'm missing (especially from KLD forward; haven't paid much attention to newer releases).

>get inspiration for a deck
>build the deck
>get bored of it in 10 games
>can't bring yourself to scrap it for other decks because it has so many expensive cards that don't fit in any of your other decks

fuck me

>>54603702
I have a couple mid-tier expensive things but nothing completely outrageous:
>various fetches
>mana crypt
>blightsteel
>phyrexian obliterator
>dirty mike
>all the praetors
>all the eldrazi titans
>demonic tutor
>planeswalker teferi
>gaddock teeg
>OG Linvala
>foil Zur
>foil inquisition of kozilek

The sad part is, most of my fancy things don't even have a deck. I'm just hording them in my unorganized binder, waiting for magical christmasland. I should just build that monoblue artifact deck to use some of the stuff...

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>>54603702

Judge foil SotF or Underground Sea, I dunno which one wins out these days.

>>54603702
Survival of the fittest :^)

Yesterday I saw a spanish edition Atraxa at the bottom of a vidya store in the mall for like 35$

Was it worth it? If I go there today it would probably still be there. I have no interest in the deck itself but I can make some $$$ even if it's in spanish, right?

>>54603702
Poorfag here, japanese Oracle of Mul Daya. Got it for like 12$

>>54604639
Generally people don't want european language cards.
That's from my experience at least. Either english, russian, or chink/jap/gook

Urborg or Phyrexian Tower in a mono black reanimator/sac deck?

>>54604734
both

>>54603702
bazaar of baghdad

>>54601730
Looks interesting just for the 5c identity, does this combo with anything?

>>54604768
Activates Door to Nothingness

>>54604768

You could probably fit in enough graft/+1/+1 to go T5 Door to Nothingness T6 Ramos kill someone

>>54604698
In my experience italian and spanish cards are bottom of the totem pole. Usually german cards are more sought after than english ones

>>54603702
Judge foil Sword of Feast and Famine

>>54603702
The Dark Blood Moon

>>54604847
Spanish cards are cheap as fuck but my autism keeps me from buying them. Germans are fucking jews and want ridiculus prices.

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Post pet cards

>>54602278
post deck? always looking to better my mill deck

>>54604436


I'd put in an archetype of endurance, makes everything pretty resilient and can be cheated out with mayael, as well as stonehoof chieftain from C16

>>54604876
I don't mean german sellers, but cards in german language. It's about the print runs and slightly more exotic language and doesn't have to do with german people at all.

>>54604930
Yes german cards are slightly more expensive but i dont get why someone wants to buy cards in a language they cant read for even more money.

>>54603702
Mishra's Workshop, in my Mishra deck.

>>54604886
how would you make this card good?

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>>54604886

>>54604996
Jank is fun

>>54605006
Mine too. I had to cut him in Locust God the other day. I think i might make some sort of Arcanis deck, though. Wizard tribal, Big Blue, or counterspell tribal. Not sure yet.

>>54604886
Does the token counts as creature? If yes its and ez board whipe + armageddon.

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>>54604996
Get a lot of Black and Red creatures, of course.

>>54605072
Socratic answer: Is it a creature token?
Real answer: yes.

>>54603702
demonic tutor

>>54605072
Of course the token counts.

How does /edh/ curb the need to make hundreds of orders of janky rares and spicy tech cards?

>>54605110
By being a Modern player first and foremost. I know there are differences between formats, and cards in Modern are not necessarily good in Commander, but card evaluation is extremely important in Commander. Every single card needs to serve a roll, support deck synergy and be as impactful as possible.

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>>54604886

>>54601818
>Talisman of Google Chrome

>>54603702
Gaea's Cradle. And I personally think it should be banned.

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Staple for Ramos?

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>>54605360
Probably. Especially once people realize that they can bounce it and have a ritual for WWUUBBRRGG.
I just don't like that it doesn't do anything on its own. Charms seem like the more fun way to go.

>>54604947
Because of print runs. The card language hardly matters, if you're familiar with the card. Besides, with some cards you're going to need oracle text anyway because of outdated wording, so the language matters even less in those cases. You could ask the same about foils, but everyone wants the hieroglyphic cards anyway, so korean, japanese, chinese and russian cards tend to be expensive.
It doesn't matter if you can read the language or not.

>>54605151
>spicy tech cards don't always serve a role

>>54605481
>hieroglyphic cards
I dont understand this. They are ugly as hell. I would never ever use one of them.
Also to buy cards in foreign language just because there are fewer prints is just retarded.

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Is an Eternal Masters box worth it? I have a few of the great cards from it already, but really want the money like a crypt, vampiric, maze etc.

I could just order the money cards though. What's the /edh/ consensus?

>>54602006
it would be cool if the filterland-signets costed 1 generic and 1 hybrid of the two colours it filters, and then it has the exact same filtering (cost included) as the lorwyn lands. it also cannot tap for C. and if wotc are pussies, make them come in tapped.

>>54605607
When you say "worth it", how much is "it"? Are you getting a deal, what's the pricing?

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>>54605485
>implying
Half the time, "spicy tech" is code for "janky and cute card that does one, specific thing". Cards in my deck have to fill all three of those checkpoints for me. Also, you're not me and I'm not you. You can play however and with whatever you want to. My methods work for me.

>>54603702
Liliana of the Veil

>>54604639
No, the only spanish card people are interested in is inquisition of kozilek

>>54605655
180 is the best I can find. Seems a bit steep since I could get vamp, maze, and crypt at the very least and have money to spare afterwards.

Seems like I talked myself out of it.

>>54603702
Champions of Kamigawa Japanese Foil Kiki-Jiki.

>>54605739
And Myr Sire.

>>54605607
Never buy a box expecting to get the singles you need. If you just want to open an eternal masters box and don't have any expectations go for it, otherwise just buy the singles you want.

>>54605741
That's how it works. The people who sell packs/boxes know the average value of what they're selling, and the price will always be more than what buying those cards individually would cost. If it wasn't then they'd just open the things themselves.

>>54605607
>>54605741
get the box and do a phantom sealed with some friends. then you take all the cards, you had some fun so you hopefully won't be disappointed with the pulls.

>>54603702
Avacyn Angel of Hope, because fuck paying more than 20 bucks on a single card.

>>54603702
I made a Bant deck way back, haven't played EDH for years but that deck is still there.
I looked at it now and see that several things that i bought for a buck or two have rose alot. Mana Reflection, Seedborn Muse, Eternal Witness, Eldrazi Conscription, Tooth and Nail.
My favorite card Wargate haven't rose alot though.

>>54604162
I paid thirty for mine mp so I figured it isn't going to be reprinted and it's a very strong card for the deck. It was either that or an academy rector with replenish

>>54605845
>I figured it isn't going to be reprinted

It's on the Reserved List, my man.

>>54605504
But same applies to foils as well for you I assume. Why "pimp" your deck, since it's more expensive? It's solely a matter of preference.
I for one prefer german cards, because I like the language, and hieroglyphs because I like the way they look. I just feel like that english cards are too "sterile" for me.

>>54605897
I went on mtg stocks when I was thinking about it and noticed that, so I figured I might as well buy it and if I abandon the deck I could probably make some cash on it again.

But it's still my favorite expedition map target.

>>54605607
It's a gamble of course. If you want a mana crypt then consider spending the 60-70$ on it directly instead of gambling ~200$ on maybe pulling it.

>>54601730
Haha, OP, you seemed to have forgotten the Discord info. Here it is:

/tg/ EDH General Discord
https://discord.gg/UE9Vqzu

Don't beat yourself up about it though. Just try to be less forgetful next time.

>test Dralnu deck after stripping out Doomsday stuff
>Pull off the Hinder-Tunnel Vision combo twice
>Make a huge amount of mana on my turn
>Enter the Infinite into Blue Sun's Zenith into LabMan

Fuck I like this deck

>>54605906
>tfw the german demonic tutor has a sweet Goethes Faust quote
I prefere the look of the very old cards thou. The worst are "altered" cards and people who tries to sell them for full price.

>>54605095
Persist and undying . dec?

>>54605959
You sound like the most uncreative person playing this format.

>>54605786
But avacyn is like 30$ now too.

>>54605959
>test out mono green legend storm with Reki
>kill everyone with the biorhythm mana dork+hurricane on turn 4.

>>54605963
>for full rpcie
i know some people who have tried to sell it for more "because it has original artwork!!!" despite it looking like shit. i would pay more if it was like, that pacific rim lili alter that steve argyle did. but most of them look so bad and just ruin the cartd and i hate it

>>54605982
Thanks love you too

>buy some chinese bootlegs
>dude throws in some revised duals

based chinamen

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>>54606004
How could you hate a masterpiece like this?

>>54605999
>mono green legend storm
List please

>>54606051

The guy who did that deserves to be backhanded. Not because he defaced a card or anything like that, but just because of his complete lack of skill and decorum.

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>people want over 120 Bucks for a destroyed demonic tutor
???

>>54606101

Isn't it rather easy to remove sharpie from a card?

And isn't it signed by Douglas Schuler?

>>54601874
Isn't there no longer a rule about graveyard order. You just have to be good if you are playing corpse dance right? I thought they did away with the rules on grave yard order because it became confusing quickly and not everyone was strict about it.

>>54606072
I don't have a solid list yet. Storm is a bit of a misnomer. You do storm things, like casting most of your deck in one turn, but you don't actually win with a storm card (unless hurricane counts).

The general principle is load your deck with as many legends as the mono green color identity allows. Remember that anything legendary nonland triggers reki. Paradox Engine and Alhamaret's Archive are easily the allstars of the deck, but Kaldesh gave you so many amazing tools. There are enough good legends that you don't have to include crap in there. Use Green's insane mana generation and Reki to churn through your deck until you get Planar Bridge or Skyship Weatherlight, and use it to tutor whatever gamewinning card you need.

>>54603702
Masterpiece chalice of the void. Literally only use it to spite sol rings lol

>>54606051
>tfw the "Chandra Nallar alter" spamming
I have seen this person's DA and none of the alters looked decent at all even. Many cards, all fucking ruined.
>>54606101
Well, the signature is fine, usually, and the "alter" art isn't horrendous, although all modifications on the card not counting autographs instantly drop the card to HP condition.

>>54603702
Arid mesa expidition, followed by a the red black tarkir fetchland (both are my only fetches and both where unpacked)
Use it in my Alesha deck, which isn't even finished yet, but I don't actually own a commander deck outside of it.

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>want to play this
>check the price

Just.

I had the idea of running an enchantment based Atraxa deck because of the Oaths and there are a lot of good enchantments involving counters like the Parallax cards and Saproling Burst. Kind of hard to fit a decent amount of planeswalkers and a bunch of enchantments in the same deck though. From a few games I tested with it looks like I need some ramp kind of hard to setup the walkers and the enchantments and Atraxa without mana acceleration. Was looking for some ideas.

Thoughts on the new Urza card? A 20 mana planeswalker is pretty nuts but in EDH i can see it being castable.

>Half a million dual lands exist these days
>Chromatic Lantern can make any land produce any mana
>Still know people who cry about how their decks can't produce the right mana at the right time

Why are people so bad at EDH?

>>54606370
>thoughts on the new Urza card?

What is it?

>>54606317
Wait for Iconic Masters, it should be there.

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>>54606370

>>54606370
Oh boy, that sure is a kneeslapper. You've really tickled my funny bones with this commendable ruse.

>>54606387

Sometimes you just mulled down to 4 and you have one of your colors in your hand, and just need a forest to get going and all you hit is islands for ten turns.

Can someone give me a decklist similar to this Kalitas deck? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3fuluMusR0Y

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>Wake up
>Check mythic spoiler
>Still no C17 spoilers

>>54602073

I'm just hoping it comes with a copy of Scion. Mine got caught in a box lid and the corner got smushed.

>>54606387
Not investing in a mana base is the first mistake most casuals make.

>>54606434
Yes, I'm sure that the player who played that kalitas deck can give you a very similar decklist.

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>>54606439

>>54606462
:(

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So my playgroup got frustrated with me for building a Horde of Notions reanimator goodstuff.dek and dominating games (I didn't intend to rule the table, I just wanted to cheese my graveyard out a lot). I posted about it before, you may have seen it.

ANYWAY, we all agreed (myself included) that I needed a second less powerful deck. Given that my Horde deck was worth like 1000 cheeseburgers, I resolved to split it in half financially. To that end I built these:

Athreos Shadowborn Apostle Human/Demon tribal shit featuring Reanimator shenanigans and shit jank like Brisela:
http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/athreos-god-of-pissing-my-play-group-off-1/

Animar with lots of zero cost weenies and no infinite combos because my meta has a rule against them:
http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/animar-more-like-animore-counters-1/

I already traded in my Horde of Notions deck for store credit with an online dealer to fund two new decks, so I wanted to check with you guys here as you will call me out on it if I'm a fucking retard. Do these look fun to play against? Are there any glaring flaws in the decks? Maybe cards I overlooked? Are they too weak or too strong? Any and all feedback is welcome. I'd just ask my playgroup but most of them are fairly new to the game and won't know what they are really looking at.

>>54601730
>Thread Question:
>What are your favorite mana rocks?
Sol Ring and Chromatic Lantern are the only ones I like. Other ones are too fragile or simply not worth the investment to me, I prefer to use land grab ramp. Then again, my meta has a complete lack of MLD so that may be why. Also Darksteel Ingot is okay.

>>54606474
>Bladewing

I hate that Wizards reprint some of the cards in what seems like every single reprint thing, with so many (even janky dragons) being very hard to find. Same applies to Avatar of Woe.

>>54606574
The reprint the ones people like.

>>54606622
Clearly everyone loves Dark Hatchling.

>>54606622
And people's taste is shit.

>>54606654
or Kamahl, Pit Fighter

>>54606654
It's only been in two precons, discounting the Anthology.

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Since the dust has settled- Does Neheb work as expected leading the deck or is a total flop serving as beta bitch from sidelines?

>>54605739
I was expecting that

>>54605755
German myr superion is literally master race

>>54606749
Neheb is fantastic, but not cEDH viable because by the time your comboing off, either you've already blown everyone out, or your in need of support that your mana can't help with.

For example, without reliable card draw, tutors or recursion reds at a disadvantage in general. Yes, past in flames is a thing, and same with shreds of sanity, but you're never going to want to yard your bombs in the first place, and if you have them you're already winning.

>>54606742
Why in any?

>>54606816
Because it's a budget creature that can turn a reanimation effect into a kill spell. They're not going to put something like Noxious Gearhulk in.

>>54606861
>They're not going to put something like Noxious Gearhulk in.
Why would you want them to anyway? He's like $2. There's better removal anyway.

>>54603702
Foil Iona signed by jason chan

>>54606861
Yeah, so let's put much worse Shriekmaw in the rare slot!

>>54606749
He would have been viable at 2 or 3 CMC, with power/toughness downshifted to match. At 5, he's a chump.

>>54606952
wouldn't he be just red selvala at best?

>>54606552
>mana crypt isn't worth the investment

Do you play in super weenie hut jrs?

>>54606950
Shriekmaw is a Terror effect, Hatchling is a Doom Blade.

>>54606968
More like a more competitive rakdos.

>>54606782
And to add, if he was Rakdos he'd be banned. Cheating out wound reflection and then smashing face with reanimation shenanagians is enough to make people quit, let alone using rite of consumption and fling to bring the pain. His aggressive cost is fantastic in casual because of his fat ass and the afflict damage but there's nothing he does that wouldn't be better with darietti or feldon instead.

>>54606973
Don't get me wrong Mana Crypt is great. But I don't feel like dropping 65 cheeseburgers on a rock that dies to simple removal and will burn me for 3 50% of the time.

But yes my meta is basically weenie hut jrs. Reanimator goodstuff dominated the meta dude come on.

Urza 20 mana
costs 5 less for each opponent that controls a colored artifact. can be used as your commander
+1: Put a blue clue token onto the battlefield under each player control
(blocked by new Jhoira card): remove or double all counters on target player.
(blocked by jhoira even more) something win the game

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>>54607066
sauce

>>54607066
Source: your ass

>>54607072
It's fake.
I wish there was a new Jhoira ;_;

>>54607103
Speaking of Jhoria, if I were to throw all the good stuff imaginable in that deck, reasonably, how good is it really going to be? Unlike kaliaa, who has a very strong mld variant, it seems like a casual trap, where a top tier Jhoria deck and a mid tier one are going to preform similarly because they still need to suspend things for a certain duration of time.

>>54606782
aw shit then, my meta is selvala storm, nekusar/locust, meren/uril, animar that gets dunked for ThTy

>>54607143
Jhoira is one of those commanders that's in the perfect sweetspot to be bad in all possible versions of EDH. She's super threatening in casual so you will get hated out, and in competitive she's incredibly underwhelming.

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cEDH is cancer

>>54607200
You need to play stax in that meta.

>>54607213
Agreed but you really can't stop it. We would need a MUCH stronger banned list.

>>54607209
Thanks anon, I appreciate the honesty.

Let me rephrase things slightly: with all the bombs that you'd run in Jhoria, is there any deck that functions similarly? I know animar and karador would work, but I'd really like to keep the blue artifact jazz I just bought. I was thinking straight face ramp into Planeswalkers teferi with high tide and doubling cube, but an eldrazi Titan or Jin Jan augur man are like 12 mana, tops.

>>54607215
I currently am playing karador combo/stax, heavy on stax but sometimes there's just nothing i can do, sometimes there's just not enough time or shitlords on blue counter stuff that doesn't hurt them and guy who would be locked wins since they tapped out to get my stuff. And sometimes I just combo off before others. It get's tiring on my part.

>>54607213
if that c stands for casual, i agree.

The format should be balanced for competitive edh, because casuals don't need a banlist.

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>>54601730
Jeweled amulet. Shit's just good if you know what you're doing.

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What's the coolest deck you've played?
I need inspiration for a new deck. I want to hear all about whatever deck you think is the most fun, most interesting, most whatever makes you tick.

Decklists would be appreciated, since they're good for showing core functions and how difficult it is to obtain.

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>>54607268
I've never seen someone be more of a try-hard in my life.

>>54607280
Selvala storm or Kydele, Chosen of Kruphix // Thrasios, Triton Hero
Selvala just a billion untap spells, hurricane, and 3 hours of everyone revealing the top card of their library

Kydele, Chosen of Kruphix // Thrasios, Triton Hero, A billion draw spells and a few repeatable untap abilites, Blue sun's Zenith for game

>>54607280
Toshiro Umezawa spellslinger.

>>54607268
>if that c stands for casual, i agree.
Competitive EDH is trash and you're making a mockery of a casual format
Go back to modern

>>54607306
I don't see what's so try hard about it. You can play casual edh without a banlist. That's just an attitude thing, not a card pool thing.

But it's difficult to play competitively when things like sol ring are off the banlist while painter's servant is.

>>54607397
>But it's difficult to play competitively when things like sol ring are off the banlist while painter's servant is.
Maybe that's a casual format you stupid pavement ape. It has zero competitive support. Why don't you just play Standard or Modern?

>>54607415
Because as bad as the format's balance is, competitive edh is still more fun than standard or modern, due to the unique rules and card pool.

Anyways, a competitive banlist would serve casuals just as well as the current banlist does, so it's a simple equation:

Competitive banlist serves competitives and casuals.
Casual banlist serves only casuals.

One of these makes the format more fun for more people, and so should be adopted.

>>54607397
General consensus of the cEDH players is that they want to take cards off the banlist instead of adding more or them.That means you have no idea what you are talking about.

>>54607436
Name one card on the ban list thats there because of casual player

Now tell me all the cards you want removed so it'll make your deck better

>>54607436
>Anyways, a competitive banlist would serve casuals just as well as the current banlist does, so it's a simple equation:
You don't seem to get it. There's no reason to make a competitive banlist because there's no official competitive support for the format. If you and your playgroup want one, just make one yourself. What is stopping you? Vote cards on or off the list by majority rule.

Why do you need to flip the format on it's head and adjust the value of a ton of cards to satisfy your own desire to make a casual format into a competitive one?

The vast majority consider this a casual format. That's how it was designed and that's how it's balanced. There's no reason to change that.

>>54607397
I thought Sol Ring was banned in Duell Commander.

>>54607466
You can do both anon, and you clearly have no idea what you're talking about if you think a cEDH list wouldn't.

In fact, both versions of a competitive banlist widely used do just that. See the WotC banlist which adds and removes cards, and the French list which does the same.

>>54607478
Primeval Titan and Sylvan Primordial were both on there because of casual concerns.

I would like to see both taken off the list, even though I don't play green (or blue so no bribery/clone shenanigans).

>>54607486
>if the banlist sucks, just make your own. This attitude is why EDH sucked to play online (until wizards took over), and why it sucked to play with anyone you didn't know before. A competitive banlist would have fixed both issues.

>>54607531
>A competitive banlist would have fixed both issues
A competitive banlist would satisfy only a small number of the playerbase and could potentially disrupt the majority. It would also have ramifications on the current market. The cons outweigh the pros.

>>54607569
How would a competitive banlist disrupt the majority of people who ignore the banlist anyways?

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UNBAN MEEEEEEEE

>>54607579
>the majority of people ignore the banlist
Bull shit.

>>54607586
>Yawg's Bargain on a big fucking stick
No.

>>54607586
He would rightfully stay banned on a competitive list.

>>54607586
We had a Rakdos player in our group that we allowed to play him in the 99

It ended up with him tutoring him up every other game and drawing his entire library to drop

>>54607597
No, it's true. Anyways, casual players are more readily able to agree to banlist modifications if they use the banlist than competitive players. So again, competitive players have a greater need of a good banlist than casual players.

>>54607478
Coalition Victory. Way too much work for it to be competitive, but casual players don't like to lose in such a stupid way.

Braids/Erayo, there are currently quite a lot of better commanders for competitive, but these are "unfun to play against".

Prime Time and Sylvan Primordial, someone already explained why.

Worldfire - "unfun"

>>54607609
>So again, competitive players have a greater need of a good banlist than casual players
This doesn't change the fact that nobody gives a shit what competitive players want because they are an EXTREME minority.

>tfw just realized skullclamp is +1/-1 not +1/+1
im fucking retarded
but it should still be good in elfball right?

>>54607637
Well, clearly wizards did, so I doubt they are as extreme a minority as you think they are. but that's still irrelevant to the point that banning competitively wouldn't hurt casuals, and would help competitives. So just from a utility perspective, if there's even 1 competitive edh player, you get more utility from making the banlist for him than you do from making it for every casual.

>>54607647
the -1 is why it's good.

>>54607647
the fact that it's +1/-1 makes it better than if it was +1/+1 you fucking massive baboon

>>54607647
Oh man, you're in for a treat. +1/+1 would be a NERF to Skullclamp.
You should absolutely play it. Just...try goldfishing a game where you have it in your opening hand.

>>54607647
If you play an Elf Lord and Skullclamp at the same time I will find you and punch you in the face.

>>54607629

Coalition victory isn't really that much work though, it's expensive in terms of money but that's all. If you have all the fetchlands and duals it is quite easy to get every basic land type, then your commander can be the permanent of each color, no tucking it either

>>54607669
>>54607671
>>54607674
oh. of course. told you i'm retarded.
>>54607692
i couldn't resist building a selesnya selvala deck

>>54607710
It's more work then any other build around I win combo out there. More then activating Hermit Druid, casting Ad Nauseum, casting flash + protean hulk etc. Much more then baby's first combo - just casting tooth and nail with entwine.

>>54603702
Cyclonic Rift. And I still win games with my extreme budget deck

>>54603702
craterhoof behemoth

>>54603702
L.E.D.

>>54607764

Definitely

>>54607850
That speaks more about your playgroup than your deck building skills, anon.

>>54607629
>Worldfire - "unfun"

Actually, Worldfire is on the banlist because they didn't think to have it empty your mana pool. Being able to cast your commander after playing Worldfire defeats the whole purpose of the card.

>>54607992
I still don't buy banning it. If you let somebody cast 2+ spells for a total of probably 13 mana, they should win.

>>54607992
Still, it's more of a casual concern, I don't think worldfire + a creature would be better than any of the current combos played in competitive.

>>54608033
>2+ spells
That's disingenuous. You play Worldfire and then win because you have a commander with haste who's always available. In a 2 card combo, everyone has a chance to react. With Worldfire, you counter it or you're dead.

>>54608075

The banlist is designed with casual in mind

>>54608075
Obviously not. The banlist is centered around casual games. If it were centered around competitive, it would be 100+ cards long.

>>54608103
>>54608111
Check the thread of replies, some retard insisted that it was. That was what I was reffering to.

>>54608103
context anon.

>>54608093
No, it isn't, because you still need the mana available to cast your commander, which means you're still letting the red player get to 13+ mana.

Your options below 13 mana are Tuktuk the Explorer and Zurgo, Bellstriker, both of which are mono-red and won't be consistent with the combo.

>>54603702
Mycosynth Lattice

>>54608163

>2 mana red commanders:

>ashling
>grenzo havoc riser
>ishi ishi
>kari zev
>slobad
>zurgo


Also:

>suspended creatures or spells
>jhoria of the githu ability

>>54608163
For 13 mana, you can play it in Saskia and kill two players.
It's pretty easy to get to 13+ mana with green, and it's a single spell.

>>54608282
>Haste

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I'm curious guys, we know that one of the other pre-con commander decks is vampires with (hopefully) Edgar Markov. What colors and play style would you want it to be. And with the other picture revealing...wizards, assassins, rogues, clerics? What are you hoping for the other deck to be like?

>>54608453
Who needs haste? If an opponent draws a spell, they don't have a land to cast it with. If they draw a land, they don't have a spell to kill your commander.

Pretty much the only thing you have to be worried about is Sunscorched Desert.

>>54608559
Because it's not 1v1?

>>54606387
My 4-color deck has shitty taplands and bouncelands and still manages to produce right kinds of mana and win me games.

>>54607948
Skills that kills. I'm just that good.

Changing my Olivia deck from Voltron to Rakdos control. What are some fun cards to just fuck with the board state?

>>54608505
Would have loved Grixis vamps, but it's looking pretty Mardu by that art. Which I'm still fine with.

>>54608652
Strangle hold

>>54608282
You specified haste anon. None of those have haste.

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>>54608505
Mardu Vampires is the way, the last deck I really have no idea I just hope it won't be just HUMANs.
Will the c17 spoilers start next week?

>>54608590
And? Just kill the players who might draw StP first.

Seton Druidball or Alesha Hatebears?

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>>54608559
>Sunscorched Desert

>>54607103
Her new card revolves around grandeur so she won't be good in EDH.

>>54608768
It and Piranha Marsh are some of the only things I can think of that someone could topdeck and kill a player with after Worldfire.

>>54603702
Alt-art Ugin in my Scion deck. I gave a guy 60 bucks for it at the prerelease. Good investment.

Is there a way to drop Enter the Infinite on an opponent?

>>54608900
Hive Mind

>>54608848
>Ugin in my Scion deck

Eugene seems like a weird choice for a five-color deck.

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>>54608682
I like Mardu better aesthetically for vampires, but blue vampires are more fun than the white ones.

>>54608932
The important part is that you get to play the Sorins.

>>54608904
fits flavourly

>>54608756
Seton. He's super fun and blazing fast. He can get a little samey with the Craterhoof win but you can make infinite mana and dump it all into Kamahl

>>54608960
I guess you can always turn Scion into Steel Hellkite.

>>54608722
Yeah, Tazri foodchain trembles before your worldfire + 1/1 attacker without haste combo. Would be tier 1 for sure.

>>54609061
Oh shut up.

>>54609061
The discussion was about why Worldfire was banned and the reason is "It doesn't work the same way in Commander as it does normally". It wasn't about tiers or cEDH bullshit, it was about not being designed to work with the format.

>>54608904
>>54608960
Yeah, it was my first EDH deck, and I went hard flavor over efficiency. I like playing it a lot, even though I don't always win.

>>54603702
FTV Kiki.

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>>54604886
I don't run the triskameme, though.

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>>54608805

>>54609353
You can't pay 2 life if you have 1 life, anon.

>>54608932
We'll see what the white vampires are like. The next set will have them and there will probably be some bombs.

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>>54604886
I love this thing. It also looks awesome in foil.

>>54609367

Do you halve the life before or after applying the damage?

>>54608962
What is the Seton infinite mana combo? The only other druid tribal card I know of is the one that steals your opponents' lands.

>>54608848
Isnt it like 25 bucks.
>alt art
kek

>>54609182
It probably was designed especially for EDH, WotC already started printing EDH bait cards during that time like the Primordials.

>>54609415
>how I make infinite mana in mono green

>>54609403
After. It's a triggered ability, so any time the equipped creature deals combat damage, it triggers and is put on the stack.

>>54609403
After

>>54609437
Were that the case, it should have emptied mana pools.

>>54609364
You've got to play your Worldfire in response to the Gut Shot

>>54609648
That's not really going to work either, anon.

>>54603702
Foil Cavern of Souls that i got out of a mm17 pack
Most I've spent on just buying a single card is only $12

>>54609761
It would be a one-shot-kill

>>54609313
I run this fucker in my Ayli. It's never disappointed me, even when it's in my graveyard

>>54609313
That's not jank though, that usually reads tap: target opponent loses next turn

The thing with worldfire is that if it resolves, even if you dont have mana to cast your commander, the game is changed in such a way that everything else that happened is negated. There is no more decisionmaking, there is no more playing, there is no advantage based on your previous playstyle, there is only a carddraw a turn and a win for the luckiest draw.
Even if you ignore all the scummy stuff you could do with and just see it as what it is it is terrible for the format, both competetive and casual.
Casual games would probably just stop on the spot as any victory is made meaningless.
Competetive games will more often than not be reduced to a throw of a die.
If you want Worldfire unbanned just throw some dies instead.

>>54610133
The game wasn't meaningless anon. You let a player get to 9 mana open with no counterspells on the board. People fucked up to get to that state.

Besides, tooth and nail is more guaranteed, and is allowed.

>>54610245
I agree, but ask yourself this question then:
can you see the situation proposed by me happening? At all?

Take your answer and combine it with the fact that other combos/boardclears/Winconditions exist in every colour and ask oyurself if it would really be neccesary to unban worldfire or if it really would do more harm than help.

>>54610306
Worldfire is a fair combo piece. Any uses that harm casual games can be taken care of with casual house rules, the same way nearly all MLD is soft banned in a casual setting.

>>54606654
What's their deal with Extractor Demon?

>>54610245
>my playgroup never gets to 9 mana meme
And I agree that T&N is better, but that's not the point of why Worldfire is banned. It's banned because the ONLY way you can interact with it is a counter. Playing Abzan? Tough shit.

>>54610245
>with no counterspells

This heavily implies that the only way to play the format is if all decks at the table run blue.

That's some bullshit logic. If you aren't running a deck with blue suddenly you fucked up and you deserve to lose the game?

Casual format nigga, not "play blue or scoop" format. If you want that, then you should be playing vintage.

>>54610332
It's a useless card in cEDH and a bullshit win in casual. There's no reason to unban it unless you want to curbstomp your casual meta and make them quit the game.

>>54609861
Yeah, but you're going to have to put a bit more effort into getting a Worldfire onto the stack above a Gut Shot.

>>54610332
Would you say it is important that worldfire gets unbanned? would you say you "miss" worldfire in the format?
Everything you can achieve with worldfire you can achieve with other cards in all colours.

The only difference is that worldfire leads to unenjoyable experiences.
And im not saying unejoyable for your opponent, it kills the fun for everyone who enjoys playing magic.

Because you are no longer playing magic. You roll a dice.

>>54610463
>Would you say it is important that worldfire gets unbanned?
Yes, because every banlist should strive to be as minimal as possible. Without a reason to ban worldfire (and none of you have posted a valid one so far), then it should be taken off the list, by the rc's own criteria.

>>54610515

What about sway of the stars?

>>54610133
>>54610463
I mean, that's not entirely true. It does somewhat turn the game into a die roll, yes, but it's a weighted die roll. Assuming you're not an idiot, you've built your deck under the assumption that you might be casting Worldfire, which would mean your deck should be better able to recover from it, playing more CMC 1 spells or even Sunscorched Desert.

It's not something that rewards strategy in-the-moment, but during deck construction.

>>54610515
> It needs to be unbanned because banlists should be shorter
That is a fucking shallow reason if you dont give further insight WHY you believe a banlist should be short.

Also, what you see as "valid" and what actually is valid are too different things.
I dont decide and neither do you.

I would also love to hear your reasoning to a further degree than "this shit ain't valid,yo"

>>54610577
I am who you replied to and i have to say you are technically correct and i am aware of this.

I myself tinkered with a similar idea. The conclusion i came to was that such a deck is not valid for competetive play because there are better options and for casual it just feels miserable to have this kind of wincondition, because you still dont win guaranteed and you really dont want to fill your deck with raging goblins and the like.

>>54610629
I've already described why your reasoning isn't valid. If worldfire creates poor gamestates similar to MLD, it can be treated like all MLD cards: unbanned by the RC, softbanned by the groups who dislike it.

The banlist should be kept as short as possible because an attraction of EDH is the large card pool, and wide open nature of the format. Banning things pointlessly goes against the format's values.

Also, if you dislike that the banlist should be kept as short as possible, take that up with the RC. That's one of their explicitly stated goals with the banlist.

>>54610515
>none of you have posted a valid one so far

Could you point out how they aren't valid? Because so far all you have said is that it can be countered, which is true of every other spell on the banlist.

>>54609861
>3 card combo that costs 10 mana across two colors and uses a banned card
>one-shot-kill
sure is

>>54610709
MLD destroys lands. Mana Rocks are a thing. People are still allowed to play magic.
I myself am a fan of MLD because it creates an interesting boardstate in a format that is often flooded with mana, the deck that is best optimized to go on with almost nothing is at an advantage. This is a valid wincondition.

The same is not true for worldfire.
A build arround worldfire is still a gamble with almost no consistency.

The banlist exists for a reason. The reason is that certain cards shape the format in a way that is not true to the formats intend or are just not "made" or "healthy" for the format.
I am all in favour of keeping the banlist as short as possible, but that doesnt mean unbanning cards not fit for the format.
The large cardpool you mentioned is also the solution for this: you like worldfire? There are similar not as degenerate cards, take these instead.

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Why isn't this card unbanned? It can be countered, so it should be all right, not to mention that graveyard hate is much stronger these days

>>54610848
>across two colors

Nah man, Vedalken Orrery.

>>54611032
because it's only vulnerable to counterspells. and it dodges yard hate

>>54603702
Force of will appearently, I thought it would have been doubling season by now.

>>54611085
It doesn't dodge grave hate though, just removal

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>game ends before I can even play my commander

>>54610768
In addition to countering, worldfire gets btfo by the following:

Any commander with Flash
Any commander that can self exile and return
Any exile then return at end of turn spell
Any Oblivion Ring type effect
Any permanent that creates a creature when it leaves the battlefield
any permanent that causes someone to lose life or take damage when it leaves the battlefield.
Phasing. Worldfire loses to phasing.
Anything with Champion makes it so worldfire can't win.
Anything with Suspend.

Every color has plays against it.

Keldon Marauders/Outpost Siege
Oblivion Ring/Ghostaway
Oubliette
Thragtusk
Aetherling, Icy Prison, Magus of the Jar
Vela the Night Clad
Portcullis, Memory Jar

If worldfire was a threat in your meta, you had numerous deckbuilding options against it.

>>54611113
Stop playing Iname as one, shithead

>>54611032
After years of the new Mardu Woe-reaper meta, I can safely say that Recurring Nightmare will be unbanned in the next update.

>>54603702
Oblivion Stone

>>54611283
Wait, does Oblivion Stone work with Triad's fate counters?

>>54611333
Yes.

>>54611346
Neat.

>>54611333
What?

>>54611383
Triad of Fates. They put Fate counters on creatures.

>>54609430
shop.tcgplayer.com/magic/ugins-fate-promos/ugin-the-spirit-dragon

You hurt me, anon.

>>54610355
>not running counterspells in his Abzan deck.
You deserve to get worldfire-d for your lack of foresight

>>54611011
The same is also true for obliterate, decree of annihilation, apocalypse, worldpurge, etc.

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>>54611677
>not running warping wail and null brooch in all decks
Its like you guys want to lose

>>54603702
Judge promo SoTF

>>54611418
Yeah, I mixed it with o ring and got confused

>>54603702
full art foil damnation

>>54611138
You do realize that none of those work except for ghostway style effects right? Most even work in your favor, since people will o-ring YOUR SHIT, not their own.

>>54612577
What exactly makes you think something like Outpost Siege or Thragtusk wouldn't work against Worldfire?

>>54612577
Go through every one and explain why it doesn't work, because right now I suspect that you're retarded.

so why is breed lethality so god damn expensive?

>>54612853
Atraxa is a great card to have

>>54612870
but just in edh or is she seeing play in other formats too?

>>54612728
>>54612744
They don't work because nobody would cast worldfire into them. You can't flash in a thragtusk.

>>54612922
She's the most played commander in EDH, and more people play EDH than Legacy.

>>54612943
Oh, so you're automatically discarding powerful solutions that work, simply because they work preemptively?

>>54612853
High demand low supply.

>>54612922
nah just in edh. she is great for superfriends

So, No new thread Edition?

>>54612943
So your super combo Worldfire gets shut down by a few dozen cards.

>>54613099
Many of which you'd include anyways.

>>54613162
>>54613099
>>54612577
As far as O-Ring goes, EDH is a multiplayer format. As long as you O-Ring someone other than the worldfire player, you've made it so worldfire is not a tenable combo.

>>54613162
No you don't. You're just being a contrarian for the sake of shitposting. Having a few situational cards that can get around a bullshit, gamebreaking card doesn't make that card less bullshit.

>>54612985
They don't "work" because the worldfire still exists in that players hand (or library if they were going to tutor it) they can either remove your shit or wait for the boardstate to change from someone else wrathing or whatever.

Also, if you are claiming people are going to be Oblivion ringing their own shit on the off chance that you might have a worldfire, I think you are the one that seriously needs to re-examine your approach.

But I think you are just trolling for (you)s, because no one would seriously make that claim. Enjoy pissing into an ocean of piss.

>>54613222
See: >>54613200

You clearly don't know what you're talking about if your first thought is that you have to o-ring your own stuff to make worldfire unplayable.

>>54613204
>oblivion ring shows up in 13000+ decks on edhrec
>you wouldn't play this shit

???

>>54613367
i have no idea what this argument is about but o-ring is among the worst ways to do removal in edh. whatever you just exiled just comes back later almost certainly and gets an additional ETB effect, and a lot of times you can precisely decide when you want to kill the o-ring and resume comboing or attacking with that card

>>54606409
Bene gesserit witch!

>>54613314
I think you don't know what your talking about. This whole conversation was about a more competitive banlist. If you aren't playing 1v1 then you aren't really playing magic, your just playing a game of who brought the most friends to the event.

If you just walked into this conversation assuming that people were talking about casual magic, then you don't know what that means if you think people have a to run a handful of specific cards to lose the game to a card that only works that way because of format specific rules.

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75KB, 503x505px

>there are people that play o-ring over grasp of fate
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

>>54613587
>if you arnt playing 2 player you arnt playing magic

neck yourself faggot

>>54613546
>>54613601
>people who don't know how to get rid of things with o-ring

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69KB, 312x445px

>>54612943
>You can't flash in a thragtusk.
Sup, bitch?

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66KB, 312x445px

>>54613601