/osrg/ Old School Revival General + arbitrary new wave neomarxist

>/osrg/
>>Trove
>three days w/out skerpies

I'm glad you finally got your way.

Has anyone made any cave maps using the VotE system yet? Can I see?

REMINDER: /osrg/ is an open, welcoming community that discusses strict OSR-gaming along with old school games and OSR-inspired storygames!

Would running a dungeon crawl with open d6 work?

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>>54591645
Don't get me wrong, he's here. But he hasn't been shilling his venereal diseases at us.

That book is still in my backlog, so I'm not entirely sure what you describe.
For what it's worth, I would also be interested to see it.

>>54591852
why do we hate him again?
His intro dungeon was useful and he has some interesting ideas.

What's this about Marxism?

>>54592160
We hate everybody that gets something done while the rest of us wallow in our misery, and we especially hate it when they come over here to tell us about it.

We're a bitter people.

>>54591645

I've seen VotE mentioned a couple times. What is it? A system for dungeon generation?

>>54592215
The immortal emancipatory science is applicable to all things

>>54592160
Only a couple very vocal people here hate him. His blog's well put together and I've lifted a lot of it to use in my campaign.

>>54591831
Yes. Open d6 is a pretty awesome system, it just needs a lot of fleshing out to make it work.

>>54591783
No it isn't.

For real, this meme is getting tired. I'm not that other guy, but you need to cut this out before you become the new castlepasta.

What IS OSR? What are its dogmas? Where my game mechanics cross the line from OSR to new game design?

>>54592247
Veins of the Earth is a fairly new book by False Patrick which is essentially his take on the Underdark. The pitch is that there's much more realistic spelunking type shit in it, nightmares of darkness and claustrophobia etc etc. It's generally considered off the hook.

>>54592250
Honestly, I think.approaching RPG design in a dialectical fashion could yield good results, since RPGs are not a strictly mathematical but still somewhat structured and formulaic medium.

That said, has the fighter proletariat risen against the casting bourgeoisie and thieving lumpen?

Any good adventures that'd work great in the Astonishing Swordsmen & Sorcerers of Hyperborea setting?

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>>54592215
pOsTmOdErNiSm Is MaRxIsM wEaRiNg A fUnNy HaT.
iT's JuSt DiFfErEnT eNoUgH tHaT wE cAn'T pOiNt At HiStOrY tO sAy, "we already know you're a fag"

>>54592217
>We're a bitter people.
Also, he's unable (or unwilling) to pick up on our secret handshakes.
And doesn't get that (pre-1300s definition) Vanity is the most obnoxious sin.

>>54592247
Campaign setting by Patrick Stuart.
It's the Gygaxian "the only sense the dungeon needs to make is that it's actively out the get you", but well articulated.

>>54591600
>How cohesive is your party?
Pretty good. Just today dealt with a bigass hive of bees - the more fragile henchman thief throws torches in for the wizard to Fireburst and blow up the enemy hordes, while the fighter and the cleric stay in front to defend the chokepoint. They all get together well and usually know what has to be done.

>>54592339

I went to pull it from the Trove. Yeah, I like this. This is pretty sweet.

>>54592160
He's got a lot of cool content, but he's also got a lot of controversial content.

Like taxes.

He also shills his blog excessively when he's not on vacation. I think he said he was on vacation anyway.

>>54592360
communism is my magical realm

>>54592339
>>54592247

Can confirm, is off the hook

>>54592445
So the RPG pundit posts here then?

>>54592331
Some people seem to think if it is not a OD&D/AD&D clone then it isn't OSR.

It is more about capturing the spirit of those games than about cloning the mechanics. Stuff like torchbearer is still very OSR even though it doesn't play mechanically like D&D.

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>>54592331
>Old School Game
A game designed prior to 1990. Notable for lack of unified mechanics and clunky sub-systems. Some modern games also copy the mechanical feel - DCC. Not just TSR D&D.

>Old School Flavor
Impossible to define concretetly and in large part dependent on the genre of the game.

>Old School Revival
A "revival" of older editions and creation of retro-clones mainly in response to discontent with 3.pf and 4e (but mostly 4e for some reason). Strictly focused on TSR D&D stuff because if you try to change that focus you get dogpiled by million D&D drones.

>Grognards
Unlike you OSR hipsters, these guys never stopped playing True D&D™. cf. Knight-N-Knaves Alehouse

>DIY DND
The kind of people who make GLOG and The Black Hack, which might be good games but aren't really compatible with TSR D&D products and so aren't OSR.

>>54592445
>Also, he's unable (or unwilling) to pick up on our secret handshakes.
>And doesn't get that (pre-1300s definition) Vanity is the most obnoxious sin.

Secret handshakes? Like what? Being anon?

I lurk this board daily and this thread consistently and I don't find the guy obnoxious.

Explain yourself

>>54592559
I like these definitions. Personally I think something stops being OSR when it stops being fully compatible with TSR-era D&D modules. If you need to do any conversion work, your system's gone off the rails.

>>54592559
>(but mostly 4e for some reason)
4e stripped away all the bullshit and went full gamist rather than gamist obscured by esoteric systems loosely justified by lore.

4e played like a board game which modeled what 3e was anyway. 3e played like a bad board game.

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>>54592331
>>54592559
As to "what mechanics cross the line", the OSR is largely about being additive and not subtractive. You can add a million classes to your game and it will still work with other TSR/OSR products (especially in 2e) but if you remove classes you've dug yourself into a hole because in so many products, class has a profound mechanical effect (magic weapons). Same goes for HD, hp, AC, levels, spell levels, and a bunch of other stuff.

>>54592622
>If you need to do any conversion work, your system's gone off the rails.
I think light conversion work (like descending AC to ascending AC) is still in the realm of OSR.

>>54592627
Hey man, I don't love or hate 4e, I'm just calling it like I see it. The 3.X Internet Defense Force is still shitting on 4e all around the web.

>>54592282
I was thinking, normally in OSR you area bunch of averages trying to survive in a dungeon, but in D6 having a dice pool of 5+ at the start of the game already puts you in a position of power from the very start, maybe starting all players with 2d6, and giving 2-6 dice so they can distribute each level so they still be low powered

what do you think?

>>54592215
Honestly, historical materialism is a useful theory for world design or understanding history. The thing about marxism is that it's a lot of intelligent ideas sitting next to full retard political proposals that makes it so dangerous.

>>54592622
This is the most sensible definition I've seen. Though I'd define it as "if you can convert off the fly" so as to include stuff like attack bonus rather than thaco, ascending AC and the silver standard in lotfp.

>>54592864
Agreed. OSR material is convertible on the fly. I can run virtually anything OSR in Into the Odd or B/X.

Or would also add that a lot of OSR descends from B/X as opposed to ad&d.

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>>54592454
It's a good thing they didn't kill the bees to the last and can get more honey next year.
It'd be a damn shame if the locals couldn't produce/export their economic-staple health pots.

>>54592597
Shitty memes. He doesn't join the constant back-and-forth that we all use to remind ourselves (and each other) that we're well adjusted to the community (4chan).

>>54593034
Contain your autism.

>>54593091
>autism
The opposite, actually.
It's how interacting with people or groups of people in person works, too.

>>54592622
>>54592718
Is LotFP OSR?

It has its own skill system and you need to convert from silver standard back to gold standard.

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>>54591600
Utterly random thought for a truly nonstandard setting for a hexcrawl or sandbox, I suppose: a cybernetic world where the characters are sentient machine-people inside a sprawling (but decaying) cyber-world. Think of it as taking cue from Autochtonia from Exalted, Cybertron from Transformers, the world of Bionicle or even Mirrodin from Magic the Gathering.

It's OSR if it calls itself OSR. Don't like it? You should have complained before the Retro Phaze guy slapped a bit fat OSR emblem on his book.

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>>54591645
>>54591852
He literally said he was going on vacation two threads ago. He'll be back in two weeks or so. Don't get your panties in a twist.

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>>54593180
Houserules and tweaks are fine.

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I want to pick up a game to just play, and let the rules handle themselves. Do you think 2e is the best for this?

>>54593352
2e's fine for it. It's got the best rules for monster races: by the looks of it you'll like that bit.

>>54593379

What are the rules for monster races?

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>>54593280

>>54593180
Can you manage it without any trouble and without making notes, before or during?

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>>54592864
>attack bonus rather than thaco
Well, it's not like you wouldn't have issues with that anyway if you tried to run different TSR editions.

It's easy enough if you just go by the hit dice, but, well. See attached image.

There's some wildly separate power levels going on in the various products. Another fine example is trying to make OD&D THAC0 work with the (much lower!) AD&D ACs - good luck hitting Asmodeus (AC-7) if your Thac0 never gets better than 7!

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I made some spells. Please r8 them.

>>54593504
I had the v2 copy of Tower of the Stargazer in print, but had to load up the v1 copy on my tablet to get the TSR-compatible treasure values.

So maybe?

Thac0 works really well if you remember that the referee does all the calculations

Thac0-AC >= d20 *looks* clunky, but the ref gets to do the math ahead if time
The player just says the roll, the ref just has to glance at his screen and say "hit" or "miss"

>>54593686
>Thac0-AC >= d20
Why the fuck are you using a formula rather than just quickly cross-referencing an appropriate table that you've already added all the Weapon vs. AC modifiers and whatnot to?

>>54593625
They're fun and flavorful, but most of them seem to just be classic spells with a slightly different manifestation and rule attached to them.

>>54593686
>The player just says the roll, the ref just has to glance at his screen and say "hit" or "miss"
Same thing with ascending AC, except a glance at a screen is probably not even needed.

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How come everyone seems to use THAC0-AC by default, anyway? It just adds another piece of math to it!

Like:
>If the enemy's AC is positive, you REDUCE it from your THAC0
>If the AC is negative, you ADD it
>Furthermore, it's in a completely different place as a separate bonus from all your other to-hit bonuses

The fuck sense does that make? Why not just add the AC directly to your attack roll, in the same place with the other bonuses, then see if that goes over the THAC0? One piece of clunky math less, all bonuses in the same place, what's not to love?

>>54593914
>The fuck sense does that make? Why not just add the AC directly to your attack roll, in the same place with the other bonuses, then see if that goes over the THAC0? One piece of clunky math less, all bonuses in the same place, what's not to love?
Because that requires the players to know the AC, and clearly we can't have that.

Serious talk, though, shit like this is why I prefer just having a bunch of small tables - lines, really - of the attack matrix printed out somewhere.

If I have to use descending AC, which to be honest I really don't.

>>54593625
>>Great Billowing Breath of the North
Can the Wizard speak or even open their mouth while they have inhaled all of this air?
>> Each round inhaled in combat when spell is cast is each round you can blow;
What does this mean?
>>Spare God's Rod, Spoil Man
How big of a group can you cast this on?
>>Granting the Farmer his Fortune
What happens if this is cast on a human?
>>The Conquering Hum
What is the range on this?
>>Shaft of Power
What happens if the wizard has black robes on?
>>The Witch's Brew
I really like this as a system to loot enemies for goodies and would like to see it stand alone as a class ability or something. I can definitely see this alongside a monster cooking skill as very niche campaign.
>>Chastising Appendages
How many limbs are needed to hold a spider/horse/man in place?
>>Descend the Stairscase
I'm a big fan of this tactical insertion spell

Flavor: 10/10 especially because "The tentacles
appear wherever makes the most sense." Clarity: 5/12. Using them if I played a Magic-User: 9/10 would work as a spot light technician inside a dungeon.

>>54593776

>most
>2-3

>>54594082
Not him, but I just added it in my head as DM.

Has anyone made an abridged version of the DCC spells? I like the system but every result description is so bloated and unneeded during actual play. I don't need to know that 1 equals misfire or corruption. I don't need to know that magic missile always hits the target on every positive result.

>>54592160
I don't think a lot of people actually HATE him, it's just that a couple do and so, as the honorary tripfag of the thread and with his over-the-top blog shilling, he becomes the easiest target of mockery

>>54594116

>no
>if cast in combat, you'd have to suck in air a few rounds and then number of rounds you suck in is the number of rounds you can blow
>group can be any size but the more you cast on the weaker and shorter duration it would be
>nothing, it only effects animals and farming stuff
>the range is as far as the enemy's can hear the hum, so normal hearing range for a loud shout or similar sound
>maybe a shadelight? you could probably protect a vampire in the sunlight with it
>originally I was gonna make it a dirt simple alchemy system but making it a one-a-day spell was pretty good too
>how many limbs= one tentacle per limb of the creature of course. Maybe more for really big creatures
>cool

Hey appreciate the feedback. I'm just not sure if this is going to be my stand alone magic system but I'm certainly thinking about it.

How do you manage torchlight and darkness and other such essential OSR elements, when literally everyone in the party can see in the dark?

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Speaking of Wizards; how would you feel if you used the same spells and spell progression as any basic retroclone game but have spells only become stronger if placed in a higher level spell slot instead of being based on caster level?

>>54594545
>when literally everyone in the party can see in the dark?

Are you sure you're not playing 5E?

Only dwarves and elves have infravision. And that's not being able to see in the dark, that's being able to see heat. If they come up against undead (which also make no noise), they're fucked.

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Hey there anons, ive been looking into running a Stars Without Number game, and was wondering if anyone has any thoughts, tips, etc. Im especially looking for decent hacks/homebrew/shit stolen from other systems.

>>54594545
If they can see in the dark, they can see in the dark out to whatever limit they have and don't really need torches.

However, since they don't really need torches they'll also be lacking in, well, torches. They have plenty of uses beyond just light, you know. Just to start, they're an easy source of fire. And an early warning system for lack of air, although they're also a risk with gas pockets so that evens out.

Continual Light basically does the same thing in replacing torches except it's harder to surprise monsters. (And you're fucked if a Beholder turns their eye towards the Wizard's staff-flashlight, of course.)

>>54594593
Pretty sure actual proper infravision is an optional rule that nobody uses because it's way too much trouble for its worth.

>>54594611
Depends on the system (TM).

>>54594611
I use it. Unless it differs from room temperature it's invisible unless illuminated. Honestly not that difficult.

>>54594611
How come?

Is there something giving off heat within 60'? If so, you can see it.

Remember that it's only in the dark, so if someone has a lantern lit then it doesn't even matter.

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Have you used an AntiPhoenix in your game? Did you burn the page when it died, or are you planning to if it does?

>>54594787
This reminds me of a self-help book that told me to tear out a page. Instead, I stopped reading and put it in a box forever.

>>54594787

What's an anti-phoenix? An ice phoenix? An evil regular phoenix?

I really like the idea of having to tear out a page and remove the monster from play after using it once, but that gimmick should be reserved for something like a outer god, a prime evil, or something truly terrible and awesome to behold. Why an anti-phoenix?

>>54593180
LotFP absolutely is OSR.

All it's skill system does is d6-ify B/X stuff that was either a Thief skill (lockpick, disarm, stealth, etc) or that anyone could do with some sort of dice roll (search, force doors, climb, etc) and let everyone have a 1-in-6 chance to do it instead of doing ability roll-unders and what not.

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>>54594331
I use this for my LotFP campaign to allow M-Us to recast a spell with risk. Could maybe work for DCC.

>>54594883
It's in Veins of the Earth, it's under _Inbox in the Trove. It's worth reading and I think it fits what you're describing.

>>54594883
>Why an anti-phoenix?
Because a regular phoenix returns to life after being killed.

should player characters always be weak? you know no matter that they are lvl 20 they still can be killed easiliy by mob of angry villagers

>>54595079
No.

>>54595079
Depends on the tone of your game. I don't like running fantasy superhero games, so I run systems that keep the power level grounded.

>>54595079

I run my game with HP as meatpoints and high attack/damage as super strength, high saves as supernatural speed, and magic as, well magic.

So no. Even once they get a few levels they're already pretty super human, much less when they reach level 20 or higher.

>>54593876
OK. So.
• Player says they attack.
• Player dices the game shapes.
• Player learns an arbitrary number.
• Player reports their roll.

The window between 1 and 4 is basically 2+3 (+time shifting gears).
The Thac0 ref can do the math during 2+3 without knowing the roll.

The BAB ref /cannot/. Not without pouring algebra upon it.
And at that point they're not using Base Attack Bonus.
They're using Thac0 with an extra step (the mental algebra).

>>54593706
...it's a fair cop.

>>54594604
Most dungeons can be modified to be ancient ruins on a tomb world. You have to give everything a fresh coat of sci fi but the design can be ripped.

Look into Traveller for inspiration for stars without number, SWN is a hybrid of od&d and Traveller anyway.

Overall just use the faction turn to help you make your sector come alive and run it as a sandbox. I give them a list of jobs they can pick from if they don't already have one and reward them xp based on how many credits they get for the job.

>>54595260
>Player dices the game shapes.
>+time shifting gears
>(the mental algebra)

As long as their almonds are activated, I see no problem.

>>54594604
Watch the GM prep turn videos from Adam Koebel.

I couldn't get into Swan Song, but those videos were interesting and helped clear up a lot of the SWN faction stuff.

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>>54595297
I'm not saying they don't both work. They demonstrably both work.

I /am/ saying that in proper context, (ref handling math) Thac0 is more efficient.
Which is true. You'll do it either way, why add extra steps between recalling and using the equation?

>>54595413
To be honest I just didn't understand the jargon in your post, but thanks for the image. Fucking saved.

>>54595290
>>54595345

Excellent. Thank you anons

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So I worked on that adventure today and I think I have it finished. What do you guys think?

>>54595716
Interesting. Why are swathes of the maps green, though?

>>54596064
Near as I can tell, that's grass,

Either unpaved ground floor or unpaved sky overlooking ground floor, depending on the map.

>>54596210
So large parts of the second floor are just missing?

>>54596230
Yah, large parts are missing on the second floor. The first floor has the green for areas that don't have a ceiling and are open to floor 2.

>>54592627
>gamist
Forge was a mistake.
The threefold model was a mistake.
Trying to segregate gamers into separate cages was a fucking mistake.

>>54593914
If worst AC is 20, best AC is 0, worst TH is 1, and best TH is 20

you can compute AC+TH ahead of time
without resorting to subtraction or negative numbers

but you have to roll equal or under a d20 labelled "11 to 30"

I guess you could buy an unpainted d20,
then paint 9 faces green, 10 faces orange, and 1 face red?

>>54596273
That could probably be explained better in the text itself.

Wait. Fuck.
You don't paint dice.
You dye them.

>>54594883
Kinda had the same reaction to it that I did to the random moment in 'Monolith' where killing a fish ends your universes, preventing you from ever DMing again...
'Who the fuck would listen to you, and therefore, why is this here?'
Now, a monster that made you *add* a page to a book? That has my interest.

>>54593352
>Do you think 2e is the best for this?
No. 2E is never the best for anything. Stop asking this type of question. Whether 2E counts as OSR is a subject of constant debate here, but it's never the best option.

If you want to just play, use B/X.

>>54592559
>Old School Game
>A game designed prior to 1990.
You went full retard with your trolling here. 1990 isn't even old, let alone old-school.

>>54596287
It's a shorthand. Edwards treats it like unimpeachable scripture but he's a pretentious asshole so whatever, fuck him.

Some games fit discretely into little boxes, as do some gamer's styles. Doesn't mean it's universally applicable but there's no need to jettison it completely.

For a hobby that has a cornerstone of creativity and imagination it baffles me how often people adhere to their own narrow definitions of what is correct procedure. It's all tools, man.

>>54597252
1990 was 27 years ago anon

Has anyone adapted Ars Magics magic rules to OSR games?

Maybe you prepare forms instead of spells?

>>54595413
the activated almonds look lighter. what is this

>>54598140
They are soaked in water to activate their druidic magic

>>54598140

It's a weaker form of Neutralize Poison.
It only works on food, and the casting time is like 12 hours.

>>54598163

Pretty sure you also need salt?

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So how does /osr/ identify magic items?

I'm guessing most of you wouldn't use Arcana/lore skills, especially not to identify monsters, but what about magic items? Do you let magic users fondle them to figure out what they do? Do they have to take it home to a laboratory? Or do they have to find out by using it?

>>54598368
If it has runes on it it's pretty easy, something like Read Magic will do it. Bardic Lore is also good for that sort of thing. Otherwise, study, or the Identify spell which is not entirely reliable. That, or just use. Something like a magic sword will probably be usable without knowing much of it, though if it flames on command or something like that you'd still need to discover it's secrets.

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>>54598368
>let magic users fondle
Naaaaaaaaah. Hirelings.
Same way you identify potions.

Anything more sophisticated than that resorts to pixel bitching.

You can also pay sages mad dosh for detailed and possibly wrong descriptions of rumored powerful magic items.

Just to be clear, the sages are all knowing. They throw the dice in their backroom to determine whether to tell the truth.
Then they blow all your money on drugs and bitches. The "research time" is waiting for them to come back down.

>>54598368
Go to a library and start reading son

>>54593686
With ascending AC, the ref doesn't even have to do the math ahead of time, it's right there in the AC. AC X = need X or higher to hit, it's exactly that simple.

Nobody here thinks thac0 is hard, but please stop trying to pretend it is in any way (besides personal taste) better.

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Do you do that whole "wizards are dangerous and powerful and everyone is scared of them" thing?

>>54598753
Mostly I do the Looper thing. People doing parlour tricks with magic is fairly common in educated societies.

People who actually have a level in wizard or higher and can cast stuff like burning hands and the like are feared though. Especially in very uneducated areas.

>>54598753
No. The wizards are the ruling council of their city-states, usually. They're too preoccupied keeping hostile wizards from teleporting nasties in and ruining everything to terrorize their (tiny) populaces.

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>>54598798
>>54598825

>Wizards are scary and powerful!
>they rule over city-states!

Please stop.

>>54598930
What's wrong with either of those? Is it your personal preference, or do you have reasons that extend beyond opinion?

>>54598753
>>54598930
Powerful magic relying on inconveniencing large settlements is a pretty good place to start.

>>54598930
Why would a shit covered peasant who doesn't know the difference between a guy in robes who can summon a devil and a guy who can just burn things in a cone not be afraid of both?

>>54598753

Not necessarily. It's obvious which Wizards are powerful and which aren't, but a common thing is that they're probably not totally trustworthy since the power relationship is clearly skewed toward the Wizard.

>>54598753
>Do you do that whole "wizards are dangerous and powerful and everyone is scared of them" thing?
Not any more than I do the "fighters are dangerous and powerful and everyone is scared of them" thing. If they're high level and well known, sure people fear them. If not, though, they're just hated and mistrusted, fighters for being amoral, brutal mercenaries/bandits (not that there's much difference) and wizards for fucking around with the fabric of reality, eldritch beings and shit like that for the sake of personal power. People react to them like you'd react to a guy who's really, really eager to get his hands on the control codes to a nuclear missile silo.

>armor makes it harder to be hit
>weapons don't make it easier to hit

Makes you think.

>>54599351
That's why armor should make it harder to be hurt, not hit. Since weapons make it easier to hurt.

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>Class Dice
Every class has a die associated with it. Wizards get d4, Rogues get d6, Clerics get d8 and Fighters get d10.

This die is rolled once each level to determine hit point gain, and is also the damage die used in combat when the character is armed and land a hit.

thoughts on this?

>>54599473
Rogues should get a d8

>>54599351
Huh. If you gave weapons a proficiency bonus (ala 4th edition, REEEE!) that would actually work well with the idea of every weapon doing 1d6 damage.

>>54599502
Rogues and clerics should both get 1d6, and fighters 1d8, with rogues going up to 1d12 damage if backstabbing.

>>54599473
What problem does this solve?

>>54599351
It does make sense up to a point. Wielding a mace is not going to make it physically easier to HIT some dude in plate armor, but it's going to be more effective than punching him. Nailing someone but still not doing significant damage counts as you "missing"

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>>54599069
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WE455_gLd8o

>>54599567
>with rogues going up to 1d12 damage if backstabbing.
Just do double damage (2d6)

>>54599351
>what are weapons vs. armour tables

>>54599605
I don't think I've ever actually seen one of those. Know any good examples?

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>>54599473
Also tie them to class abilities.

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I need a better name scheme for my shitty edits.

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>>54599636
Here's the one OD&D expects you to use.

>>54599604
>1d12
read 1 die
min 1, max 12, ave 6.5
>2d6
read 2 dice, add 2 numbers
min 2, max 12, ave 7

>Just do
That's neither simpler nor less.

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>>54599636
You could use this one >>54599984 but personally even though it's a little less realistic I prefer something close to pic related. With an added row for unarmed and an added column for scale-type armours.

Does anybody else feel that /osrg/ has been really weak and lame recently? I don't know.

Is Finch's "A Quick Primer for Old School Gaming" well-received around here? Was looking at getting into OSR and stumbled across it.

>>54600087
0 . -1 . 0 . +1
-1 . 0 . +1 . -1
0 . 0 . +1 . 0
+2 . 0 . -2 . -1

Not quite as evenly distributed, but it's not like you're rolling d4 to determine each enemy's armor
So the difference really shouldn't matter that much

>>54600135
It turns out Skepr is an honorable man.
>>54600416
Poorly.
It served it's purpose when recruitment took tooth and nail.
These days, light properly casts it as salty and fallacious.

>>54600416
Attempts to somehow define OSR are not well received around here. The OSR you can describe is not the OSR

It does describe a certain fairly common mindset well

>>54600514
>>54600539
It does feel like he was complaining about having bad GMs more than the rules being bad. I also scratched my head about how the GM should be throwing out the rulebook and that it isn't their job to know the rules. Good to know that it isn't thought highly of.

>>54600539
The path that can be spoken is not the eternal path
The name that can be named is not the eternal name

>>54600549
It is they're job to know the rules, but not looking at the books during play is a TERRIFIC idea.
See also, >>54489655

their

>>54600549
The GM should know the rules well

Part of knowing the rules well is knowing when to not use them

How do you let players sell their aquired treasure if they dont know how much it values for? Are there any rolls/tables that can be used to quickly determine this, or do you just tell them the value of it when they return to town?

I have some scatter-brain ideas in my head right now for background rolls being made based off player decesion to determine if they're getting their full value for their treasure, make sure they're not getting swindled by some merchant, how long it might to take to find someone to even buy their treasure, ect.

How do you guys handle this or do you just "you return to town and sell your treasure for x amount, mark down your experience " for ease/convenience?

>>54601535
If it isn't a common good that would be covered by Merchant, I have them roll Connoisseur to get a rough guess, better with a good roll and worse or wrong with a bad roll. They're certainly not going to just sell it off without an issue. They should invest in the skills if they really want to sell everything they find.

>>54601535
Let your players tell you in what circles they would attempt to sell the item.

The Enchanted Mace of King Barbaro the Bold might fetch a decent to amazing price to a mercenary company looking to use it depending on how powerful it is, maybe more or less to a museum depending on its historical value. If they manage to find a rich collector of Barbarossian heirlooms then he may pay a ridiculous fee.

Appraising is not just working out how much something is worth but also which circles of people will buy it for what price. If they don't know, just ask them where they try to sell it and give them a price that the buyer would reasonably pay.

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What's your favorite osr megadungeon? I've been reading through stonehell and quite like it, but I'm looking for something geared for AD&D or 2nd.

what are some good 2nd edition megadungeons?

>>54592559
Dcc doesnt really copy the feel of old dnd. Its heavily based on encounter to encounter play, only rewards xp for combat and has no rules for travelling in a dungeon when not in combat. The modules back this up - things like light sources and noise sources are not important.

>>54602520
Ed Greenwood ones are high quality but never finished. Ruins of Undermountain is legendary but only 128 pages of room descriptions. Haunted Halls of Eveningstar is the same thing, full of blank rooms on the map but only 32 pages this time.

Carl Sargent doesn't leave things unfinished (except his life) and put out Night Below for a real fleshed-out "megadungeon" using the Underdark as dungeon.

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>>54595260

>>54602520
As far as I know, 2e has precisely one adventure that even approaches the idea of megadungeon, and that's Undermountain. 2e adventures in general were the exact opposite: it was a dark time, of railroads and stupid stories.

>>54591645
I did, it worked out very well too. Alas, it is all but scribbled on the back of a tissue in terms of art quality so no show and tell. I would recommend the method though

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I've been thinking about how to spice up combat for magic users that isn't just *cast spell*.

Perhaps keep regular spells, but keep their uses weird, esoteric, and mostly noncombat in nature. Reduce spellcasting to once per day per spell known, with only a handful of spells known per Wizard. Then, add in magic rods.

Rods deal magic damage. You can fire out basic blasts (one target), cones, sphere (like fireball), or novas around yourself. Each rod has a different element type. You add your Intelligence modifier to the damage.

Rods also take up a type of magic energy called Mana. Mana is either separate from spellcasting entirely, or so cheap when it comes to rods they aren't really in the same category. Unlike arrows and other ranged weapons, which have equipment that counts as ammunition, Rods use your personal mana store and once you run out you'll need to drink a mana portion or rest to recover it.

>The purpose
This makes combat magic separate from regular spellcasting, meaning Wizards no longer have to be annoyed by choosing between preparing combat or noncombat spells. It also makes magic rods an item in the world that's more common, potentially anyone can use them, it's another form of weapon, mages just happen to be good with them in the same way fighters are 'just' good with sword and rogues are 'just' good with daggers.

Thoughts?

>>54597175

2E's best contribution to the hobby were the settings they supported during the 90's.

>>54600416

Finch's essay is rather salty today and especially when it was released. He does make some points though if you can work through the saline.

That being said his strength is in module/adventure writing.

>>54602520

Some of the usual, modern suspects:

Barrownmaze (not considered a megadungeon by some, but it is very big)

Maze of the Blue Medusa

Rappan Athuk

Stonehell

>>54603258

Troll/10

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>>54603287
Yes, we all know. Shush.

>>54594787
I like the gimmick, but I don't actually like the anti-phoenix. I have no idea what I'd use it for, or why it would exist in the world. The only way I can see myself ever using it is as an incredibly dangerous macguffin or macguffin-holder.

>>54596328
Must have been hard to playtest that...

Do you suppose Veins of the Earth exploration rules could work in other enviroments, like wilderness? How would you change them?

>>54603181
Exactly, but those settings are also better run with 1E.

>>54603786

Wouldn't argue with that.

>>54600135
>Does anybody else feel that /osrg/ has been really weak and lame recently?
Hard same, the trolls and bandwagoners trying to shoehorn in their favorite as being somehow """oldschool""" because they think they'll get an audience to discuss it with are getting reeeeeal tiresome. It's a shame, this used to be my favorite place to discuss OSR stuff, but the more people come in here and act like they can change the general definition of OSR used everywhere just by derailing an /osrg/ thread, the less enjoyable it becomes. Just makes me want to go somewhere these faggots are actually banned or made into instant laughingstocks, like ODD74 or Dragonsfoot. Never K&KA, though.

I remember seeing the attempts to make a /tg/ runequest general, that shit died before hitting 100 posts, so it's obvious why they're trying. Still hate it though.

>>54603848

You're part of the problem. Stop trying to force your definition of OSR on other people.

You know what will happen if someone tries to post Runequest on here but nobody else think it is OSR? Nothing. They'll be ignored and lose interest in the thread. Or maybe it will foster a little discussion, and those two fags can jerk each other off in a corner and be happy. Much better then giving the trolls a (You) and encouraging them to stay.

>>54601535
I just tell them what treasure is worth when they find it. I don't allow buying magic items and if they sell them, they don't get XP for them and will have to take their chances, since there's no magic item market.

>>54603922
How do they get experience from magic items at all, then?

>>54603025
>Thoughts?
I never have understood and I still don't understand the obsession with having magic-users be able to contribute a bunch in combat. Why? You don't constantly try to figure out ways for fighters to contribute to spellcasting, do you?

Is it some JRPG shit? It definitely predates the editions it shit up, anyway.

>Wizards no longer have to be annoyed by choosing between preparing combat or noncombat spells.
That's bad. Why shouldn't they have to be? And for that matter, why are they getting annoyed? Who said that you weren't going to have to choose between spells in the first place, that it makes you annoyed now?

This whole thing makes no sense to me. Vancian casting is ABOUT managing a kind of resource, and nobody ever suggested magic-users' proper role is to be combat monsters.

>>54603873
>force your definition of OSR
Naw, you're the problem. Thinking it's "my definition" is the exact tunnel vision idea that this thread IS the OSR that I'm talking about. OSR is a term that means something, there are piles of blogs and forums all of which understand it the same way and then there's K&KA who think it means "betrayal of AD&D" and are also rightfully mocked for it. You don't like that. That's your problem, sucks to be you I guess, but leave it out of /osrg/. Just grind your teeth in peace and quiet.

>>54603945
What? They don't. Why would they?

Or, I guess if we're playing an RC game they get XP from magic items by making them. Besides that, though, magic items are their own reward, since they make you better directly. Also making you better by granting XP would just be doubling up.

>>54604030
I can guarantee you that people like you, who complain about this shit, are ten times as prevalent and as annoying as the people posting and discussing about RuneQuest and games like that.

Your whining doesn't make anything easier. It's not going to make them stop. It's not going to make us "see sense" and turn completely against them and throw them out. All you're doing is making the whole thing worse.

You don't have the last word on what is OSR and what isn't. Every time that discussion comes up at all, it ends in a shitstorm. Is 2e OSR? Is RuneQuest OSR? Who gives a shit, let them talk what they want, you shut up.

>>54604030
>Just grind your teeth in peace and quiet.
Take your own advice.

You've already made two shitposts in this thread. Runequest or whatever so far has none, barring the one post replying to you.

>>54604068
>You don't have the last word on what is OSR and what isn't.
You can take this insistence that it's somehow my personal opinion rather than a generally accepted definition and shove it.

>Every time that discussion comes up at all, it ends in a shitstorm
It doesn't end in a shitstorm anywhere else. Why do you suppose that is, you faggot?

>Is 2e OSR?
No.

>Is RuneQuest OSR?
No.

Both of those are uncontroversial. Start a thread on Dragonsfoot if you don't believe me.

>you shut up.
No again. Why would you even say this when you argued a few sentences earlier that it's impossible to get people to shut up so we should just give up and take it?

Help me out please, I'm a newbie.
Lotfp rules say nothing about opportunity attacks, are they implied? Or you are supposed to play without them? If so, wouldn't combat dissolve into Benny Hill chases left, front and center? How battle dynamic works in this case, especially when fighting out in the open field?

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>>54603982
>I never have understood and I still don't understand the obsession with having magic-users be able to contribute a bunch in combat. Why?

Non-Sequitur. Magic Users have always been able to contribute in combat, from the mighty sleep to the humble magic missile.

>You don't constantly try to figure out ways for fighters to contribute to spellcasting, do you?

Nice strawman. Being able to contribute outside of combat IS something Fighters should be able to do, which does not necessarily mean casting spells. And yes, everyone should be able to contribute both in combat and outside of it, just in different methods. This is called Conceptual Balance, and is very important in a team based game.

>Is it some JRPG shit?
Firstly, you imply that it is bad. And second; yes, that is the inspiration. I really like the idea of giving magic users an appropriate weapon, an alternate combat function, and a chance to find magical or special gear. Having Wizards salivate when finding a +1 Rod of Flames is just as good as having a Fighter get excited when they find a +1 sword or whatever.

>Vancian Casting is about managing a kind of resource.
First off, this system DOES use a resource. The fact that there is a limit on how much shit you can do with a rod before running out of mana is clearly stated in the idea post. Secondly, Vancian magic is shit, so fuck off.

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>>54604135
There aren't any opportunity attacks in RAW LotFP. In fact, combat isn't really that deep since it's generally not what OSR games are about. You can probably find houserules for that pretty easily online though.

>>54604135
>Or you are supposed to play without them?
Probably. B/X doesn't really have that type of stuff, so it makes sense that LotFP wouldnt.

>If so, wouldn't combat dissolve into Benny Hill chases left, front and center?
Not really, for a bunch of reasons:
* There might still be a disengage rule, like, if you're in melee you can only back off by so much.
* Where are you running to and why? Actions go in a particular order, so if you pull back you don't get to attack the opponent, but he can then charge you and attack. So all you're doing unless there's some kind of plan behind it is forfeiting your own attack.
* You want to protect the weaker party members. If you run off the monster might just bitchslap the magic-user to death instead.
* Usually spaces will be more cramped than an open field anyway.

So, typically you only move back if and when you're too low on HP to hold the line.

>>54604106
>>Is 2e OSR?
>No.
Yes. Gold for XP is still in there, it's just optional.

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>>54604106
>Why would you even say this when you argued a few sentences earlier that it's impossible to get people to shut up so we should just give up and take it?
It was worth a shot. It takes two to argue, after all, and in each situation it's you or someone like you who really gets it started.

You're some asshole obsessed with purity. You want everything out that you feel doesn't fit with the thread. You will bitch and whine uselessly until you get your way, and don't care about the collateral - that the whole bitching, and the resulting ban of things, will drive away a lot of other people, feeling this isn't a good place to talk about stuff anymore.

If you've been on /tg/ overall for more than a few years, you may have seen that sort of a thing happen in the larger scale. /tg/ of old had its problems, people talking about shit that may not have belonged there, but these days - after those things were banned - it's all just cold and lifeless and empty. It's no longer the place I grew to love. Most people have fled and taken their discussion with them.

Now you seek to bring the same death to /osrg/.

For the record, I've never played RuneQuest, nor see it having anything of interest to me. I don't much care for 2e either. But neither of their players have been loud enough here to start annoying me. YOU have. I will not stand for the angry, loud, intolerant dipshits like yourself ruin another thing that I like.

Shut the fuck up, go fuck yourself, and let people talk about things they like to talk about.

>>54604151
>This is called Conceptual Balance, and is very important in a team based game.
No it isn't and no it isn't. Conceptual balance could just as well be "each class has its niche" and in fact would more commonly be understood that way. But also it isn't that important. It's one of those things where, whenever the proponents of it see a design that works they retrofit their theory to fit that thing, then say it "proves" the theory.

>yes, that is the inspiration
iknewit.jpg

>Vancian magic is shit
You foolishly went too far here. I give an all-over rating of 4/8, there was some good stuff.

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>heated definition arguing in /osrg/

>>54604164
Well my concern was something like this:
Fighter closes in on a bandit.
Magic-user casts spell.
Bandit closes in on Magic-user
Fighter charges bandit.
Magic-user runs away as far as possible.
Bandit closes in on Magic-user.
Fighter charges bandit...

It will probably play out in a much more exciting fashion for a bunch of reasons, but I'm somewhat uneasy.
> If you run off the monster might just bitchslap the magic-user to death instead.
That is the question, how can you protect someone, when you can't really restrain them out in the open. Grapple the fucker?

>>54604230
The actual way things tend to go is:
Fighter closes in on a bandit.
Magic-user casts a spell.
Bandits fall asleep.
Fighter mops up.

>>54604175
>it's a questfag
Of course it had to be a questfag.

Bonus points for using a cap of by far the most autismal Anime Club character apparently without realizing the irony.

>>54604230
In the original B/X rules (which LotFP is copying for the most part), a character in combat cannot leave without opening himself up to being attacked without being able to retaliate that round. I don't think that's in the LotFP rules, but check out B/X and see if you can take some stuff from there.

>>54604230
>Fighter closes in on a bandit.
But doesn't attack? Combat rarely starts out of charge distance in my experience.
>Magic-user casts spell.
>Bandit closes in on Magic-user
But doesn't attack? If he's close enough for it to make sense to disengage with the Fighter and go for the M-U, probability favors him pushing the M-U's face in.
>Fighter charges bandit.
But doesn't kill him?
>Magic-user runs away as far as possible.
Makes sense.
>Bandit closes in on Magic-user.
Yeah, if the bandit's alive that might be a good plan. Or maybe the bandit's morale will break and he'll surrender instead? Don't forget the morale and reaction rules exist, they're the answer to many "why does weird situation X happen?" questions.
>Fighter charges bandit...
Sounds fair, but at this point you have to wonder how the fuck this solitary bandit is even still alive and fighting -- and moreso with each passing round.

I'm not trying to be a dick here, but I think your concern mostly exists on paper. Imagine a fight with 5 PCs and 8 bandits trying to ambush them, instead. They probably have bows; what happens if they win surprise? Do the PCs have any bows, or do they try to charge? And so on. Play this type of combat through a couple times and see how it goes according to the best tactics you can come up with.

>>54604313
>your concern mostly exists on paper
Quite likely, yeah. Thanks for dissolving the uncertainty, everyone!

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>>54604272
>questfag boogeyman
Nice try, but I haven't followed a Quest since Ruby. I'm more upset with the loss of smut and the significant reduction in draw- and writefaggotry as a result.

Every time a lot of people make a bitchfit about something they don't like, something they feel is "ruining the board", someone decides this is a shitty place to be in and leaves. Every time something is banned, more people go, even if they never cared for the banned thing. The impact of these people going is far more subtle than the sudden disappearance of something that was banned, but if you've been around here any longer time, you will either have noticed the loss of color and life, or you're willfully blind and self-satisfied about getting to ban another thing you don't like.

Even the arguments don't die, because you have people like me who think maybe we went too far, and then smug assholes like you who feel they won and are forever vindicated by it - and just like in this thread, just like how things always get banned to begin with, it's you who start with the shit-flinging.

They won't stop posting about RuneQuest or 2e unless the mods come in and ban them for some reason. Nor will you stop bitching about it. And if those things against all odds -are- banned, people won't stop longing them back, and you won't stop calling them "bitter runequestfags" or some shit like that. The demon has been let loose, and it can't be put down again. /osrg/ is dying. And I blame you.

I can't get you to shut up, to turn the boat while you still can. But I can, at least, express my utter and unending contempt towards you and all your ilk.

>>54604375
He's a faggot who needs to shut the fuck up, but so are you you cunt.

>>54604375
Seconding this: >>54604397
You might have had a point when you originally told him he was worse than the guys he was complaining about, but now you're worse than him with your walls of assblasted text.

>>54604397
>>54604452
I've already said what I had to say. I doubt he'll listen but I'll shut up now.

Thanks for your concern.

Now here's a controversial one.
Is tunnels and trolls OSR?

>>54604518
Shush, we're already done.

Don't ask if something is OSR or not. Just talk about it. Bring up things to actually discuss, rather than seeds for further arguments.

>>54603261
>Barrownmaze (not considered a megadungeon by some, but it is very big)

Isn't that just Barrowmaze I?

Barrowmaze Complete has 375 keyed rooms, and that's not counting all the side rooms and crypts.

>>54602520
Ruins of Castle Greyhawk (WGR1) is the best megadungeon TSR ever produced.

>>54604596
That's not saying much.

Is it actually -good-?

>>54604518
Tunnels and Trolls isn't OSR because that implies D&D compatibility, which in the case of T&T was a only ever a sales ruse at best. It's definitely old-school, though, since it's meant to play exactly the same as early D&D. Cutting out everything but the dungeoncrawling does constrain it a bit, but not worse than Grasstek's Game of Dungeon or Moldvay Basic.

Personally my main objection to it is distaste for the "funny" spell names, desu.

>>54604604
Yes.

>>54604612
>Tunnels and Trolls isn't OSR because that implies D&D compatibility
But that implies 2e is OSR, and this is blatantly false.

>>54604621
You're not fooling anybody, you know.

>>54604648
Fuck off, take quests to /qst/ and 2e to its own thread.

Why shouldn't 2e have a general of its own? PF, 4e, and 5e all get one. We don't need to suffer their non-OSR faggotry here either.

>>54604621
Nah, 2e fails on the other end: it has the compatibility, but it's maladapted to the old-school style of play. We can imagine many D&D-compatible games which have that trait.


Seriously though, 0/8

>>54596328
>Now, a monster that made you *add* a page to a book? That has my interest.
I'll be honest: Dungeons & Dragons Legacy would be rad as all hell.

Just think of all that you could hide through the various achievements - new monsters, new magic items, new dungeon levels, stickers to alter the wilderness map, entire new dungeon levels to replace existing cleared ones, new rules, new classes...

Come on Hasbro, get on with it. (I'm not sure anyone else has the budget and name recognition for it to work out.)

>>54604681
I feel that 2e can still handle an OSR game fine - not as well as B/X or LotFP or something like that, but it's got the lethality, the gold-to-XP (even if as an optional rule), and the compatibility. But it can also deal with non-OSR gaming, allowing me to switch between two, even in the same game - it's like a small limited pseudo-GURPS.

That's the strength of 2e to me. It's why I like the system more than the deeper OSR stuff, or the new-school like PF and 5e. The latter type of adventures have no place in this thread, perhaps, but I see no reason we couldn't discuss 2e in the context of old-school play.

>>54604563

Yeah. Just 1 by itself.

>>54604739
I agree with this.

>>54592559
Grognards are Mike Mornard, Mentzer, Chirine & co. People who've been playing since the earliest days of the hobby.
Knights n Knaves are just your regular kind of cunts, some of whom are obsessed with recreating Gygax's campaign without giving cred to just how whimsical Gygax's own lake geneva campaign was.

>>54604737
>Dungeons & Dragons Legacy would be rad as all hell.
At first I was like:
>whoa, yeah!

but then I was like
>...isn't that a "campaign"?

>>54604874
It is. I think that guy was joking.

Is Maze of the Blue Medusa in the Trove? I couldn't find it last time I looked.

Also, check out my crap-ass RPGish blog:
plasticpolyhedrons.blogspot.com

>>54604874
>>54604898
It is a campaign, yes, but Risk Legacy and Pandemic Legacy and whatnot have more to it than just that.

Like accidentally nuking Australia into a radioactive pile, making it worthless for conquest and changing the entire metagame. Or giving specific permanent choices between multiple options, and literally ripping up the others and throwing them in the trash. (Without knowing what future choices there might be!)

While D&D has campaign play at the very root of its existence, it seldom actually messes about with the rules. Rules tend to be set in stone, with the only additions being optional ones in new supplements or less optional ones in new editions. New options are given, spells and monsters and magic items, but former ones are seldom changed.

Seriously, though, check out the various Legacy games out there and maybe spoil the first few minutes of them for yourself to get the gist of what they're going for. Not too much, though, because those are actual boardgames that need spoiler warnings.

>>54604997
Last I checked - which was a long time ago - having the Maze in the trove got it taken down for copyright reasons. So it got left out.
Hence the inane cryptogram links to the Trove that were here for a while.
There's still PDFs out there somewhere, though.

>>54605061
Fair enough, I should probably pay for it at some point. Zak's work is fucking incredible, and I'm really happy with my hardcover A Red and Pleasant Land, even if I never use it.

>>54605061
>While D&D has campaign play at the very root of its existence, it seldom actually messes about with the rules.
You just aren't campaigning hard enough.

>>54605119
Yeah, but messing with the rules isn't a fundamental part of the game. It's just a slow accumulation of houserules.

>>54605243
Like, OD&D has this line:
>New details can be added and old "laws" altered so as to provide continually new and different situations.

However, since AD&D things like that have mostly been reserved to individual DMs running homebrew games. There's nothing wrong with that whatsoever, but I figure that having a game that more explicitly encourages such practices and in fact requires them as part of regular gameplay would be neat.

>>54593914
Because that's how subtracting a negative works, you tit. Do you not know how to do basic arithmetic?

>>54605530
Yes, but why not subtract a negative when you can just ADD?

>>54598705
If you assume your players are like, babby stupid and cannot do addition (someone ITT can't do subtraction so I mean I get it) then they have to tell the GM, the only person at the table who can do math apparently, TWO numbers instead of one.

But since that's almost certainly not the case at any table in any game, yeah obviously.

>>54599567
Why not "Rogues get an extra class die when backstabbing" though? 2-12 instead of 1-12, curved instead of flat, but feels more direct.

>>54604997
Looks decent. I like the townsfolk in the dungeon. Though your title stuff is kind of hard to read with that background.

>>54605809
Thanks for the feedback! I've just been horrendously lazy with the layout so I'll have to work on it a bit.

>>54598000
Somebody a few months ago was trying. Maybe use the nouns and verbs like the magic words system from that one blog that I forget the name of.

>>54604997
02_Supplements -> 01_Adventures

My player character just got drained two points of charisma. How would this affect the roleplaying?

>>54606562
>slightly more irritable and jaded
>forgets certain traits that are annoying
>forgets some things are faux pas
>is more anxious in social contexts
>is more quiet

Pick something like this and roll with it.

How do you make energy drain less bullshit while still keeping it a threat?

>>54600135
Been here for several years. Someone says this every week. Its because its mostly shit all the time, it was just new and exciting and you could download a bunch of stuff at once.

>>54603848
Good, get the fuck out.

>>54606544
Bless up, Anon. Dunno how I missed that.

>>54606916
There are a bunch of ways. Upfront, let's start by establishing that there's no way to dial it down and keep it the *same* pants-shitting fear. If you make it less severe it'll be treated as such.

With that out of the way:
* Keep the drain the same, but allow a save. Probably the simplest change.
* Keep the drain the same, but lower the spell level/cost of Restoration so the PCs can easily get it back in town.
* Make the draining attack do regular damage, but with one or more of the inflicted HP semi-permanently lost, only to be healed slowly or by use of special magics. This is the way a lot of Roguelikes do it.
* Make the attack inflict specific penalties that are semi-permanent, like -1 to saves and attacks per hit, but that can be dispelled. This is the "negative levels" route 3E took. Can't recommend it as it's too fiddly.
* Have the attack lower the target's XP, but not his actual level; he'll still have to earn up the deficit before he can level up again, and you can make it just do some hundreds of XP damage per hit so it won't be too obnoxious for a character who's level 7 or so. Don't recommend this either, since it totally misses the point of level drain, but at least it's easy to track.

There's probably a bunch of other ways, but I can't think of them right now.

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What does /osrg/ think of my set up? Got players and pizza coming in a half hour, LotFP and LL for reference, dungeon synth is playing off the tv. Should be a good night, I finally get to bust in the new game table.

>>54606916
From >>54607248, I like the "damage done reduce total HP until Restoration (or recover 1 HP per day or week)".
This doesn't reduce their offensive fighting capacity, but make them fragile as glass.

>>54607264
That looks pretty cozy. Are you using magnets to keep track of turns?

>>54607334
Yah. My idea is to have 6 spaces for turns and move the magnet over each turn. Below it is a reference for how long torches and whatnot last.

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>Party clears an abandoned cursed temple
>Gains: A pile of gold and silver, expensive trinkets and gems, a couple magic items, and a spell scroll
>Loses: Three levels, two points of charisma, plate mail

>>54599351
>implying "hit" is meant to be literal and not a piece of game terminology

>>54607264

Looks cool anon. Specifically what music do you listen to while gaming?

>>54607264
Looks fuckin' sweet, man. Good luck!

>>54600583
What is Challenge System?

>>54601535
Depends how much you enjoy the logistics of adventuring. I don't think I've ever run into a game where people were really into fencing their treasure as a part of play, but I could see it. Might even make Charisma even more useful than it already is.

>>54604563
Speaking of Barrowmaze, is there a way to get Barrowmaze II anymore? I bought 1 back when it came out but I don't wanna pay for Complete and that's all that's for sale.

>inb4 just get Complete out of the Trove

>>54607515

>>54457274
AD&D pared down by Moldvay while hiding from lawyers.

Why do people care about the definition of OSR exactly?

>>54607702
Clears discussion of noise. A word that doesn't have a definition is not a word!

>>54607719
It could clear discussion of noise, in theory - if we all managed to come to an agreement about the definition and immediately cease posting of games that don't fit in it.

But we never will. And so discussing about it will just clutter up the thread and occasionally sour minds.

>>54607719
It'd an acronym, and this isn't technical terminology here. It's a vaguely collected fandom of people with a central focus on old school D&D and sometimes very different ideas on how that focus should be expressed. Aside from the arrogance of presuming to define what someone's fandom means to themail, there'should the stupidity of trying to enforce subcultural social norms in a hobby oriented around games. Seriously just don't use the shit you don't like; don't argue about whether it's OSR.

>>54603873
You don't* need to see others bitching to realize a post is bad.
And neither does anyone else. Just reading posts shows proper behavior.

All you need to say is,
>>54603848
lurk moar


*or at least, I hope you don't.
How would you ever recognize good posts?

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>>54604106
>>Is 2e OSR?
>No.

>>54607788
You're a complete walker who needs to deflate a bit.

>>54607177
It's there because it's set up to be system agnostic, rather than for LotFP

>>54607264
I usually do a playlist of dungeon synth, stuff like mortiis or lord lovidicus and mix in a bit of classic 80's metal with it.

>>54607821
B-but muh differences in playstyle, muh stripped-down DMG.

>>54607449
Some decisions are bad decisions.

Not all doors need be opened.
Not all stones need be turned.

>>54607670
I did have the PDF but I seem to have lost it, sadly.

I strongly recommend Complete though. The gazetteer, extra artwork, and full maps make it a great book.

Sadly, the hardback is a bit of a let-down. The pages are thin and translucent, which isn't what you want in a B&W book with heavy line art. It was a print-on-demand run from Lightning Press who I think also handle DriveThruRPG prints. I've heard their quality varies by region, so YMMV.

>>54607973
Thanks anon but really I find PDFs just fine, so I'm not fussed about the book quality.

what's your opinion of using player stats as replenishable resources? For example, breaking a bunch of heavy doors would require a strength point and backpacking a heavy mountain range would require a constitution point. Something to that effect, but played with loosely and increasingly difficult to lose each addition stat point (-3 stat would be the maximum effective penalty short of something absolutely debilitating)

Sleeping would recover stat penalties- probably at a rate of 1 point per night. The idea behind this is to add another layer of resource management, and players might be motivated to be strategic about how they make camp- which introduces the threat of random encounters. Also, it's just intuitively realistic.

bad or good idea?

>>54610480
I've been thinking about something like that sometimes, mainly in the context of taking damage: if you'd be reduced to 0 or less by an attack you would take CON damage instead, or you could voluntarily take CON damage to recover a few hit points.

>>54610480
>bad or good idea?
Yeah, I think it's a pretty good idea. I think it should be easier for characters with higher stats to spend more points in them (= exert themselves more), though, rather than just making the third point harder to spend than the second and so on.

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Is there an OSR system that focuses on thieving heists/gangs in the way Blades in the Dark does?

>>54610480
Gumshoe does that, pretty much.

>>54610971
Some anon was making his LotFP hack called The Rogue's March but I've lost the pdfs. No idea if somebody has them now.

>>54610971
>>54611277

http://theroguesmarch-rpg.tumblr.com/

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At the start of combat, roll your combat die. Fighters get d10, Clerics d8, Rogues d6, and Mages d4.

The number rolled is your number of stamina points for this battle. After rolling for initiative, you can 'bid' to get a higher slot by sacrificing combat points. You can also choose to put yourself on the very bottom of the initiative order to receive full points. Taking a breather in combat means you skip your round, but get to roll your combat die again to get new points. Your points add together, but only up to your class's normal maximum.

Fighters, having the most points, are also the only class that can learn new special moves. Some moves let them do things like slam the ground with a hammer and deal damage in a radius, or concentrate to deflect all ranged attacks sent against them. The DM determines the cost of these moves.

Special Moves
>Any Cost; Use a number of points and you will soak that much damage for an attack that hits you. Must be spent before any damage die are rolled.
>1 Cost; Move or attack
>1 Cost; Perform a combat maneuver like a trip, disarm, blind by throwing sand in the eyes, etc. Enemy gets a save to avoid.
>2 Cost; Cast a spell or read a scroll
>2 Cost; Move AND attack
>2 Cost; Make a save. If you succeed, you move up in initiative one spot. You can do this only once per round, but in addition to spending other points.
>3 Cost; Shoot into melee without penalty or the chance to hit your allies.
>4 Cost; Get advantage (roll 2d20s and take the better one) on a basic attack. The enemy can spend an equal number of points to block it.
>4 Cost; Give an attacker disadvantage, which can be cancelled by the enemy.
>5 Cost; Roll a 1d6 and increase your AC by that amount for this round.
>7 Cost; Step in front of an ally and take the hits for them. Lasts for the rest of the fight, unless they do something stupid to get out from behind you.
>10 Cost; Make two attacks on a single creature.

Any thoughts on this?

>>54610480
Vaguely reminded of that one F-Zero homebrew.
Been a while since I've read it though.

>>54611920
I like Fighters straight up getting to do more things at once.

The rest feels too gameist.

>>54612041

Maybe simplify?

Doing anything, move or attack or non-combat action like grabbing an item from your belt all cost 1 point.

You can give up points to increase your AC or attack bonus when you attack. What should be the criteria for using many attacks then?

>>54610480
Numenera is this.

>>54612122
Does that make it a bad idea by association, or a good idea because it works?

>>54612147
Numenera is mechanically very good

>>54612147
Most of time players won't like/want to become weaker (for hours) to overcome a (single) challenge.

>>54611920
So you can only use one action per round, right?

Because, well, either that's true and not much changes for the classes that were going to just move+attack in the first place, or that's not true and having attacking cost 1 is at odds with attacking twice costing 10.

Mages getting a d4 also doesn't matter that much. They get to cast a spell per round at average, and the only other interesting ones are... what, 5-cost AC boost? 2-cost initiative boost?

The damage reduction is also kind of ass.

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last chance to add some shit to this sweet looking OSR kickstarter. I just want to get the adventure streachoal buthopfully you might like it regardless.

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/608764698/the-midderlands-an-osr-mini-setting-and-bestiary/description

>>54607264
hope you have fun with your group, anon. And that you have cushions for those chairs.

>>54600087
>chopping -1
>slashing +2
m8

>>54612589
>m8
breh

do we have the Ruins of Castle Greyhawk megadungeon in the trove? I can't seem to find it?

>>54612166
>death spiral is good

>>54612942
Neither could Gary.

>>54612604
>breh
broseph stallin, lord of the brocean

>>54612952
Whats wrong with death spirals? They encourage retreat and alternate solutions aside from violence.

>>54612975
>>54612942

I'm specifically looking for Greyhawk ruins WGR1

>>54613564
Check in tsr/settings/greyhawk, I think the WGX stuff got put in there.

How do you guys handle it when players decide to start busting down walls? I've seen new players in 3 different groups over the years decide to use tools to bust down walls when they fail to disarm a trap door or something. These same players will try to diplomacy intelligent monsters, throw meat down to distract monsters, spike doors and make barricades to buy time for random encounters.

>>54613820
Let them?

It takes time and makes a ton of noise. Plus breaking down a wall so that you can pass through in all of your gear isn't as easy as it sounds, even with the right tools. Not to mention it makes the room tough to defend later on. Plenty of downsides to it.

>>54613820
Sounds like some good players. Just roll up a bunch of extra random encounters for all that time and noise they make.

>>54613888
Last game they were lucky as far as random encounter rolls went. Their style is to have the halfling crawl in and report anything, then decide if they want a bigger hole. When other people go in, they crawl through and then their equipment is handed over to them. They're lucky they haven't crawled into a room with a lot of danger yet though.

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Tell me why I should play your specific system.

>>54613919
I like it.

>>54613912
Fair enough. They play pretty smart and so far I've been surprised. They're all fresh to d&d but have a good combination of ballsy and careful behavior. I don't know why, new players tend to be smarter players than folks who have played a lot of third edition or something.

>>54613916
>>54613955
You might want to try and adapt, though. See how they play and add in a bunch of challenges tailored to them. Diplomacy leads to small sidequests or other complications, guard dogs with a specific palate, and walls that hit back.

>>54613955
It's because they play the situation instead of the rules. New players immerse into the game and use their common sense and inventiveness on the situations presented instead of mentally inhabiting some abstract mathland where you have to opt the amount of power attacking you use on the fly each round.

>>54613820
Your players sound well adjusted.

>>54613955
It's not that they're smarter, it's that new players don't have bad habits they need to break. It's why I prefer to pull in people completely new to RPGs over people that have played them, because then I can groom them the way I want them.

>>54613919
You shouldn't and can't because it's a heavily houseruled LBB OD&D that isn't available outside of my group.

What you should do is play LBB OD&D, because it's easy and fun to homebrew, and not too tricky to run either (although definitely harder than B/X, since it demands much more decisionmaking about basic elements on your part).

>>54613585
>I think the WGX stuff got put in there.


Thanks I found it.

>>54613929

Well I mean, you got to say what it is.

>>54614010
I think this is true. I've seen a lot of players get confused or frustrated when you give them hard to move treasure. One time though I played with a bunch of construction guys new to d&d and after clearing an area, figuring out some hard to reach marble statues were valuable, they bought a donkey, rollers, planks of wood, etc. And ended up going into detail on the logistics of hauling statues, ornate tables and heavy items out of the dungeon.

>>54614116
That sounds awesome.

I get why people don't like it, but I love this sort of thinking. "Ugh, can't we just say we took the treasure back to town?" makes me sad. I'm not saying you have to be a mechanist, but god damn you could have at least thought about bringing a few mules.

>>54614098
It'll cause a shitstorm and I don't want to muck up the thread so I'll refrain from that.

>>54614116
Sounds really cool, anon. It always makes me happy to hear these kinds of stories. This is what RPGs should be like.

>>54613919
Because I think it mechanically reinforces and incentives the thematic elements and the overall tone of what I am trying to achieve. If you share the same vision as I do, I think it'll go well. Otherwise you probably wont like it.

>>54614361
To me, creative problem solving is the most fun part of d&d really. I get that it's not everyone thing but you don't have to be engineering to have fun with it. These guys I think, they liked the fun sometimes of trying to do engineering and problem solving but being restricted to middle ages level technology.

>>54614399

WHAT GAME IS IT?!

>>54613919
Because with a few modifications it's made for a very fun dungeon crawl. All you have to do is add in careful time-tracking and formalize the 10-minute turn. Throw in the occultesque food mechanics and it works great for megadungeons.

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>>54607264
So yeah, the game turned out to be pretty fun.
Good luck osrg. I'm always surprised with new players that for all the talk of 5th being "a casual edition" and osr stuff being hardcore or something, b/x d&d is much easier for new players.

>>54614437
Yep, it really boils down to cause-and-effect type solutions. I used to worry about weights and distances and time, but OSR makes it easy to abstract. If you're lifting that coffer full of coins from the dungeon and you have a block and tackle, it takes a turn and you're set.

In modern times you have cranes and antiseptic and grenades, but solving problems with simpler tools is a lot of fun. It also gives you a lot of respect for the people who did it. If you think looting dungeons is hard, try building a cathedral.

>>54614470
tHE ONLY WINNING MOVE IS NOT TO PLAY.

>>54607264
>>54614613
>8 hours have passed between these posts

Goddamn where does the time go? Glad you had fun.

>>54614616
A lot of times you can call for a dex or str roll if it's still sorta dicey but I pretty much never have to say "No your character isn't smart enough to do that." since it usually ends up being pretty simple. For more complicated stuff involving cranes and levers, that's why it's nice to have dwarves or people with the architect background.

>>54614636

Raggi-written adventures, right?

From skimming the firearm rules in LotFP I don't see WHY you would want to use them. Are they just supposed to be shitty?

New
>>54615504
>>54615504
>>54615504

>>54613820

>players will

>>54592960
>sburb-procedurally-generates-entire-planets-to-suit-each-players-personality.jpg