/osr/ - The Old School Renaissance

>>blogs
>https://pastebin.com/ZwUBVq8L
>>tools
>https://pastebin.com/KKeE3etp

If you're going to drop any of the pastebins because "they link to eachother", the one named IMPORTANT LINKS is probably the best to keep.
Especially considering the Trove is the most used part of our thread.

>tfw you'll never be added to the blogs list

Does anyone run games with the OSR philosophy in non-OSR systems?

>>54473141
What's your blog bro?

>>54473294

>https://themansegaming.blogspot.com/

I update at 6 AM. I don't like shilling it, to be honest, so once I'm added to the blog list people can find it if they're interested. Otherwise I'll just stay anonymous in the thread.

>>54473118
What would YOU like the OP to look like?

>>54473253
No, because it's a huge pain in the ass and also because why would I ever do that? I like OSR systems the best and they're already optimized for the style.

>>54473358
Funny you should ask. I was the guy making all the OPs right until they started going to shit.
I want them to look like how I used to make them. I also don't want to be the one to make them.

>>54472977
>What's been inspiring you lately?
Hiding from snakes that know where I am.

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>>54473416
If you show me your OP, I'll use it (assuming I make the next thread).

>>54472977
What does osrg think of myth and magic, mechanically?
I know the guy is proof of buyer beware with kickstarter, but what do you guys think of the mechanics?

>>54473497
https://boards.fireden.net/tg/thread/54234523 <-- the one where I stopped
https://boards.fireden.net/tg/thread/54189119
https://boards.fireden.net/tg/thread/54155896
https://boards.fireden.net/tg/thread/54122178
https://boards.fireden.net/tg/thread/54070589
https://boards.fireden.net/tg/thread/54024648
https://boards.fireden.net/tg/thread/53282542
https://boards.fireden.net/tg/thread/53241648
https://boards.fireden.net/tg/thread/53208406
https://boards.fireden.net/tg/thread/53156953
https://boards.fireden.net/tg/thread/53122114
https://boards.fireden.net/tg/thread/53091184
https://boards.fireden.net/tg/thread/53058029 <-- might not have been me
https://boards.fireden.net/tg/thread/52955971
https://boards.fireden.net/tg/thread/52919709
https://boards.fireden.net/tg/thread/52740332

I did plenty before that, but they followed the old format.
Which is at least better than what's going on now.

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Here's my "ideas for running a giant mecha OSR game" post.

https://coinsandscrolls.blogspot.ca/2017/07/osr-flame-pomerium-how-to-run-giant.html

Mechanics were covered in previous posts. This one is all about story seeds, scale, and game structure. It also has art and monsters.

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>>54473969

He CAN'T keep getting away with it.

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Question for Basic Fantasy players & DMs: How do I make a lich player character in Basic Fantasy? Can the method in the picture be used well enough or is BF too different for that to work?

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>>54474032
Bet you a dollar.
Admittedly, it's your dollar...
Seriously though, it's not like my blog is monetized. I make no money from this. Also, /tg/ contributes ~1/100th of my total views. What do you think I'm getting out of this, exactly?

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>>54474055
>a lich player character
The method there works fine (even if it's kind of boring an dry). But I do have to ask... why? What's the end goal.

Alternatively, just declare it, and then list weakness and strengths. No need to use an in-rules explanation. Were all the windmills in your setting built using the crafting system?

>>54474066
Sexual pleasure

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>>54472977
Looking at old woodcuts and 15-17th century art. Shit's bananas.

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>>54474119
>Aha! My foot mace will surely defeat this demon!
>Oh no! He's sodomizing me again!

Got any more?

>>54474119
Is that a boner

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>>54474119
I want to do something with devil testicles, but I'm not sure if that's actually a good idea.

Going to have a HUGE fish and some idiot with a giant's knife trying to work it on the next coastal encounter table for sure though. Also the idea of trying to sell regular household items that are from a giant, so they're... giant could be neat.

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>>54474146
>>54474152
Yes on both accounts. I got distracted and found a bunch.

Graf was a soldier/wood art guy so some of his stuff has more weirdly human aspects to it.

Giblets and various torture sticks on the roadside seem like a good excuse to use Broken System's cage table.

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>>54474066
>What do you think I'm getting out of this,
You steal freely given inspiration.

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>>54474224
Don't use those wheel though. It never ends well.

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>>54474224
Like, he added the butt grabbing in peasant dances. Makes it seem believable. Might have gotten them killed by puritans though.

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>>54474251
>You steal freely given inspiration.
And this is somehow a sin? Really? In the OSR thread?
REALLY?

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>>54474090
>Were all the windmills in your setting built using the crafting system?
Were all the windmills in your setting worth questing to attain?

⇔ so, please tell me more about your setting.

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>>54474278
>juggernautstarsparetire.gif

Adding the downside of carousing so hard you puke on a cross.

>>54474292
that'sthejoke.jpg

>>54474090
>But I do have to ask... why? What's the end goal.

One basic reason is that liches are my favorite thing in fantasy. The other is that it would be fun to role playing a lich who disguises himself as a human so he can keep interacting with them while also interacting with other monsters in his true form (the anime "Overlord" being a good example). Said character would be a Magic user whose hunger for knowledge lead to him eventually an undead state.
>Alternatively, just declare it, and then list weakness and strengths. No need to use an in-rules explanation. Were all the windmills in your setting built using the crafting system?

Good point, I'll look into making a different ritual; perhaps involving some kind of purification ritual preformed by servants which ends in a full submersion style ritual bath that binds the soul to a place (said ritual chamber) than an object.

>>54473141
Cheer up, I'm going to add to my blog's sidebar so we can both be unread together.

>>54473253
I haven't run it but I'd like to use All Flesh Must Be Eaten/Terra Primate to do a dungeon crawl one day.

>>54473253
>[...]run games with the OSR philosophy in non-OSR systems[...]

I try to do this with GURPS.

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>>54474292
Most everyone here is a sinner.
There's shame in that, but it's best not to mention it.

It's the sort of thing we hide from by coming here.
One of the ways we lie to ourselves is forsaking names.
And you. Keep a name.

You aren't one of Us, you're one of Them.


Also bitching is the lowest form of post and >>54474349

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>>54474349
>that'sthejoke.jpg
Sorry man, all the negativity is kind of getting to me. I'm not leaving, because I feed on rage, but it has made me a little less charitable in how I read posts. Ah well. My bad.

>>54474331
>Adding the downside of carousing so hard you puke on a cross.
Please write a Woodcut Carousing Table, with pictures.
2. Grabbed Someone's Bottom At A Dance
3. Threw Up On A Cross
etc.
>>54474325
>Were all the windmills in your setting worth questing to attain?
Actually, yes. Unrelated, but yes. To get a windmill to work (and not, say, be torn apart by an angry wind), you basically need to ally with the local wind. This usually involves marrying your daughter or son to it. Windmills are therefore symbolically important, sometimes fortified, and usually protected by a wind spirit (or a host of infant winds).

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>>54474325
Gustave Doré is dope too.

Thinking of either looking for or just making a table of over the top new fashion to roll on for what everyone with coin is wearing. Every time the party makes it back to basically home burg, they're behind because they've been in a murder hole for the last two weeks getting their fine threads covered in shit.

There we go. Actually a good idea. I'll work on that tomorrow and post it.

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>>54474350
What you're describing is interesting, but I think it would lend itself more to a story or comic than an RPG.

You don't want an entire group of people with a "hilarious secret", right? You know, the Orc is three goblins in a trenchcoat, the Knight is Sir Bearington, etc. Unless you do. Then carry on.

But focusing all the "I'm special" powers onto one character, via what they are (and not what they do, in the game) is a recipe for disaster, in my opinion.
>Good point, I'll look into making a different ritual
Nah man, no need to go so deep, if you're doing this. Focus on the meaningful effects. Nobody else in the game will give two hoots how you got to where you are; they care about what you are now. You could just say "a ritual" and be done with it.

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>>54474429
Woodcut party is a good one too. I'm going to sleep on it.

Gotta watch out marrying your daughter to the east wind though. West wind is going to try and fuck your mill. An orientalist windmill farm area with long prayers to the winds written on the fabric and festivals where different wind direction priests tilt at rival mills could be interesting.

>>54474470

The first issue will be of no concern since this is a solo game. As for the second, the character's personality, drives, goals, character flaws, and other relevant data-sets will be fleshed out in the process of character creation (i.e. I don't plan on an annoying cardboard cutout saying "hey I'm a lich").

I know OSR games aren't really about 'balance', but what about conceptual balance?

What I mean by this is; Rogues and Fighters tend to have short lists of things they can do, simple linear bonuses. But Magic users have a lot more complexity including spells, spell slots, item research rules and so on.

How would you balance the amount of conceptual shit the classes get? Giving Fighters more abilities or combat skills? Thieves getting a resource of some kind to go with their luckiness? What?

>>54474360
What sort of dungeon crawl with you do in those systems? Are they good for OSR-style play?

>>54474373
How has that been going?

>>54474642
Rogues and Fighters don't have a daily limit on how many walls they can climbs or attacks they can make.

Wizards do.

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>>54474645
>What sort of dungeon crawl with you do in those systems?
Well I converted a level of Palace of the Silver Princess (PDF related) and the Dungeons & Zombies splat has a Tomb of Horrors knock-off as a setting.

>>54474645
>How has that been going?

Depends on the players, unless you have ones that like OSR the new system rule lawyers will insist on using GURPS (often over detailed and hard to keep organized) library of rules.

>>54474642
In practice though, wizards only have a handful of spells, and in some games, the spells are picked randomly. New ones can only be learned from a captured spellbook. They can only be used once per day.

By the time the wizard has a decent library of spells, the rogues and fighters (of equal experience) should have followers and domains that give them lots of interesting things to do (stage a coup? start a war? breed pterodactyl mounts and rule the sky?).

>question for anons
Does anyone know of a printer friendly retroclone/reformatting of B/X? Just something simple I can use as a reference.

I have single volume D&D, but that seems to be 0e

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>>54474642
Spells are finicky at best in combat, with how hard they are to get off.
They're more of an out-of-combat deal. [Sleep]* from ambush, etc.
*or [Hold Portal] because all your rolls are bad
you probably got [Wizard Lock] at lv.2, just to rub it in

But even then, spells tend to be worse than what other classes get.
It takes a solid minute to throw a [Knock], and it sounds like dropping all the pans you can carry.
Wanderingmonsterswanderingmonstersthievesarebetterwithdoorswanderingmonsters.
Speaking of carry, a lv.2 MU can only carry 1 [Knock]. They have to fetch more from town.
A level 10 MU can carry 14 spells. No more than 3 of which can be [Knock]s.
Mean while, Thieves can try to open as many doors as the find each day.

Not that lv.2 spell slots are particularly valuable, mind you. Oddly enough, lv.1 slots are better
Lv.4 spells also tend to be pretty shit..

>>54473634
The way you wrote the links are complete shit

Look at this:
>Trove: http://pastebin.com/QWyBuJxd

You can't just double click to get the link. The way this OP did:

>etc
https://pastebin.com/QWyBuJxd

Is totally better.

Now, why did the most important pastebin, the one with the trove, is called "etc" and is the LAST one on the OP?

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>>54474955
I don't know of or aprticularly care about what half-ass magic is hidden behind your use case.

NEITHER of those are links to me unless I poke the setting menu in 4chan, in which case BOTH become links.

>double click
Which, incidentally, require only one click.

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>>54474513
Absolutely. Getting a wind to mill your grain is like getting a lightning bolt to cook your ham, in terms of danger, in a way. Your wind-spouse had better not cheat or run off.

Winds do like to touch things, so hanging ribbons and bells is always welcome. They're like cat toys.

>>54474614
>The first issue will be of no concern since this is a solo game
Ah, well, in that case, go nuts!

>>54475029
>I don't know of or aprticularly care about what half-ass magic is hidden behind your use case.
Too bad, I'm telling you anyway. Double-clicking (or triple-clicking, in my case) highlights the whole line. Then you can left-click, and hit 'Go to [link]' on the menu that pops up.

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I've been thinking about how to handle taxes in an OSR game and have been sifting through various ways to handle the subject. I like the suggestion of trying to make it more "feudal" - that is, use taxation to start PCs thinking about the domain game early by giving them relationships with local patrons and lords; it feels very appropriately "high medieval".

However, I can't help but think that a lot of OSR campaigns often take place in regions that aren't "civilized", or at least don't have the extensive feudal chains of ownership nearly as solidified (ex. disputed borderlands, unexplored reaches, and so forth). How would you work that feudal sense in there? My initial thought would be that the "tax game" (seeking patrons and so forth) would really only start after the PCs get back to civilization with the treasure.

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>>54474642
OSR is already to some extent conceptually balanced. Fundamentally, D&D is about expending resources to overcome obstacles, and all the core four classes approach "overcoming obstacles" in different ways:

The Fighter's main resource expenditure is HP. If an orc is in your way, you bash him. If there's a trap on the chest, you bash it open and tank the hit. He gets the biggest HD, and also gets toys and class abilities that improve his chances in HP wagers (combat bonuses, armour, saving throws).

The Wizard's main resource is spell slots. He expends spells to effortlessly solve obstacles without losing any HP. Sleep destroys a pack of orcs. Spider Climb gets you over a pit. Knock opens a locked door. His chances in direct HP wagers are terrible, however.

The Thief's main resource is HP as well, but he gets a different type of wager - percentile rolls that allow him to bypass obstacles by hiding (and/or backstabbing them), climbing sheer walls, listening ahead for danger, and so forth. I think the B/X Thief is a bit on the weak side, but conceptually this does represent something different.

The Cleric manages both HP and spells. He doesn't have quite as good an HP pool, saving throws, and combat ability for direct HP wagers, but his spell slots can be spent to boost that probability or restore HP.

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>>54475220
The main thing to consider is that D&D's "wilderness" and "generic fantasy medieval europe" are kind of incompatible.

All land is owned by someone lord. The chain might be disputed or tenuous, but someone has claim. And if they find out that you are making money from their land, they'll want a slice.

So:
1. Preempt the Problem "Lord, by your leave, I'm going to go explore this bit here and see if there's anything valuable. I will report back."
2. Politics. "Lord A, I will explore this area." "Lord B, I have found a great treasure on the lands you dispute with Lord A. That greedy pig wants it all for himself. He would tax the air I breathe if he could. If you would accept me into your service, I could give you 80%...."
3. Royal Charter "Oh King, I wish to go to Foreign Parts and loot them for your glory."

You can start the tax game after the PCs return, but you can also introduce the idea, if not the reality, up front.

>>54475193
That's 4 clicks, not 2 and
>left-click
are you left handed?

>>54475353
No, my brain stopped working for a second. I meant right-click.

>>54475220
There's no dispute. By all rights, that land belonged to the Orcs.
No tax on you either. The local lord will milk it off the merchants.

>>54475220
An open wilderness might be claimed as the territory of a lord. Setting up a fortress might be possible if it's really remote, but once the powers that be catch wind of it, they'll consider it an act of war. They'll feel obliged to toss you out, lest their lands be filled with squatters.

Existing governments may lay claim to whole unexplored continents, and only recognize the right of chartered colonies to settle there. PC's could get a charter to settle a given stretch of wilderness, and more or less have free reign (at least until the king dies, and his heir decides your nice new barony should be given to someone else).

If it's a really violent frontier, maybe it's full of reiver clans, like the border between Scotland and England once was. Existing powers have the mindset of "let them have it". The nearest nobility leaves you be, unless they want to hire you as mercenaries (or try to steal all your shit after you've tamed a piece of wilderness for them).

Remote settlements may have a hard time attracting productive emigres.

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>>54475392
>By all rights, that land belonged to the Orcs.
Yeah, but then you're just running into another system. The Orcs will tax you too, if they can.
That tax might be "an arm and a leg and all your wealth" so... be cautious.

>>54475440
Wasn't your gimmick supposed to be usability?

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Quick OSR!

I'm going to be running a game in 4 days or so, it's my first time running an OSR game. Any advice or ideas? I'm using a homebrew ruleset, and prefer to make my own dungeon and not using any published stuff, by the way.

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Imagine you're Gary Gygax, all the way back in 1973 or whatever. There's no nostalgia or tradition to concern you.

What four classes would you choose to represent your idea of the most essential archetypes for fantasy adventure stories?

>>54475481
>using a homebrew ruleset
>not using any published stuff
You're off to a terrible start.
May things unfold as they should.

>>54475486
Superman, Conan, Herakles

>four
mid-kek

>>54475481
Why run homebrew? might be informative to run Swords and Wizardry light or Basic Fantasy for your first game and see how it plays.

Anyways, make an interesting and dangerous environment to explore.

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>>54475480
>Wasn't your gimmick supposed to be usability?
Well, yeah, but I don't have orc warlords or wilderness areas in my system either.

But the orc warlord might also:
-tax you in cattle, not gold. What use is gold? Go get him cows. A lot of cows
-or swords
-or he might demand you fight something, arbitrarily, and be amused if you win
-or he might have a damn good idea about what to use gold for. He demands a mere 20%, but spends it all to recruit a huge army. See, he knows that the rest of the gold is in the City. He's going to take it back.
>>54475481
Go on a blog binge, bookmark all kinds of stuff, print off random tables, and get a good night's sleep.

>>54475486
Dwarf, Elf, Hobbit and Human

>>54475486
The fighting-man (straightforward violence), the thief (stealth and backstabbery), the bard/con-man (diplomacy and lies), and perhaps the wizard (weird shit).

>>54475532
Every foreign ethnic group is considered to be a monster.
Loose, vague descriptions hide that they're actually human.

>>54475440
>if they can.
Of course they can't.

But they're happy to kill you and take your stuff.
They were going to do that anyways!

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>>54475571
Then it's still a tax.

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>>54475486

I don't really give a shit about Gygax or having 4 classes.

Fighter, Rogue, Wizard. That's where it's at. Anything else is extra tacked on shit, THIS trinity is the purest and best class basis for any game.

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>>54475402
>If it's a really violent frontier, maybe it's full of reiver clans, like the border between Scotland and England once was. Existing powers have the mindset of "let them have it".

These are the sorts of scenarios I'm trying to think about. Basically, I'm trying to figure out different shapes that a "tax free" or "tax lax" zones could take - places that an enterprising PC group might discover or decide to escape to. So far the ideas are:

-really violent border regions filled with beastmen/marauders/etc.
-really remote regions not suitable for agricultural purposes and that (but maybe have forgotten wealth/resources hidden under the sand/tundra/swamp)
-"accursed" lands (blight-lands, undead lands, etc.)
-undiscovered islands/continents

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>>54475694
Post-apocalypse ought to be a gimme!

>>54475481
-Use reaction rolls for random encounters, and make sure if you're using sapient antagonists they can communicate with the PCs if the roll comes up neutral or friendly (and establish behaviours for animalistic foes in case of a neutral or friendly roll). This changes the game a lot.

-Try to be consistent and fair in your rulings. Even if you don't roll dice in the open, consider trying to run fudge-free.

-Use a good dungeon module. Don't use Keep on the Borderlands - although it's fondly remembered, each individual cave does not really have a layout that really rewards exploration and careful maneuvering. Village of Hommlet is my preferred TSR classic, but you could even use any one-pager.

-Bring props or sheets to help you and the players track things. OSR play usually has a bunch of book-keeping. Toothpicks can track arrows; a set of checks on a sheet can represent the passage of time (and indicate when torches expire and so forth). Simple little trackers like this allow you to focus on running the game in a smoother fashion.

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>>54475694
Man, if you're going to have taxes, and then invent all sorts of way to avoid them, why bother having them be a feature worth considering at all?

All your ideas are good though. You could also add
-legally disputed areas (nobody is sure who owns it, the dispute is in court, people aren't violent about it but the entire area is in a legal quagmire)
-a really eccentric faction (orcs, elves, wizards) owns it and they don't care about treasure. They do care about other stuff though
-it floods half the year, snows the other half, is hit by lightning, tornadoes, and rains of glass beetles. But for two weeks every summer, it's completely clear. Make your move then.

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>>54475599
>mfw I managed to become a hero in the end

>>54475599
Fedora: the post

>>54475824
c >>54475824

>>54475486
Guy who uses magic.
Guy who doesn't use magic.

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>>54472977
When is The Driftwood Verses coming out, or has it sunk like most kickstarters?

>>54475599
Not this again. I thought we talked about this a couple months back.

>>54473253
Yeah I do this with 5E and it works fine.

When I think about Wizard characters getting bonus spells or bonus to magic damage or something from intelligence, it feels kind of wrong or weird in a way.

But at the same time; I can't justify this making sense when Fighters get bonuses to hit and AC, which are stats they use all the time.

What bonuses do you think Intelligence and Wisdom should grant? And how class intense should they be?

Any good fanzines that you guys enjoy?

>>54476373
Wisdom should give bonus to-hit for ranged attacks and raise save DC. Intelligence should give bonus to learn new spells from study material.

>>54476408
>Wisdom should give bonus to-hit for ranged attacks
How?

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hey teej-oh-ess-arr, is pic related Weird enough to fit in a Weird OSR game??

>>54476091
Turnover rate.

>>54475776
It's mainly for variety and to make the idea that "taxes can be subverted" more apparent to players.

>>54476380
Fight On. Knockspell. Vacant Ritual Assembly.

All others are irrelevant.

>>54476476
I can't tell if the second part was a part of the dream or not.

>>54475481

You can spend more than 4 days just creating a good adventure with no time to play-test your home brew for any balance issues.

Hope you are good with improv and winging it. You can always create a small cave or dungeon for them adventure into and just drop them off in front of the adventure location.

>or

You could get hold of an established retroclone that is freely available and run a game off that. You can do far worse than LL/BFRPG/S&W.

>>54476380

'Fight On' for general RPG things.

'Threshold' for all things Mystara/Known World.

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OC

>>54474429
>Sorry man, all the negativity is kind of getting to me.
Bruh, just don't feed the trolls. You're just making it worse (and helping shit up the thread to boot) by responding to them. How can you not know this already? They feed on (You)s.

>>54474642
You know how I know you (and a bunch of the guys replying to you) have never played any D&D campaign of any notable length?

As they level up, Fighters and Thieves get spellcaster-like traits and abilities through obtaining magic items. Many of these are restricted to fighting-types, and those restricted to magic types mainly just increase the amount of spells they can use; thus, magic items serve to flesh out the Fighter's traits and abilities.

In other words your concern is a desktop problem. It doesn't really exist or come up in play. The only reason you believe this is an issue is because you just compare the classes in isolation, on paper.

I can't stress this enough: PLAY THE GAME FIRST. *Then* add house rules as situations come up during play. It's fine to want your own thing, it's fine to want to exercise your creativity, but don't do it instead of actually playing the game.

>>54478470
>PLAY THE GAME FIRST
This needs to be said more often, OSR has a real problem with armchair game designers

>>54478470
I feel like this advice should apply a lot more to WotC as well. A lot of 5e designers clearly have never actually played the game.

Ctrl + f castle
No results found.

THANK FUCK

>>54478794
You jinxed it.

>>54476380
Someone posted a really cool one a month or two back but I barely remember anything about it.

They posted it to show off some table, it had really nice art but the text was bland in terms of formatting (Times New Roman?).

Pretty sure it was made by one guy and he had a couple of zines on the sidebar of his blog. They were hosted on Mediafire or somewhere.

Now I'm thinking it might have been Metal Gods of Ur-Hadad. I'm not too sure but that one's worth checking out anyway.

>>54473253
I've run games of 3.5 that are house-ruled to be more OSR-ish.

>>54475193
It's honestly not that hard to just click at the beginning and hold down. That's what I do.

>>54475486
Warrior, Mage, Priest, and Bard.

>>54475486
Soldier
>good at fighting, good with leading followers
Doctor
>squishy, improves healing, helps solve debuffs
Occultist
>has odd tools and uses them in lateral-thinking-ey ways to solve otherwise unbeatable problems
scout
>good at Not Dying due to stealth and high HP.

>>54475960
>estimated arrival time
>february 2017
I think she's sunk mate.

Which is too bad. It looked pretty cool.

>>54476380
& Magazine

I once heard someone mention awarding experience points for hit points lost and damage dealt in return. Anyone do something like that, and if so, how exactly?

Here's a preview of wolfpacks 2e. It's still WIP, I'm going through editing and tweaking stuff still, and the index is just Not Done at all.
Still. 292 pages. 56 full-page illustrations. Fuck tons of new content, including a whole new class, a bunch of new hazards and monsters, bonus spells, and much more in-depth cave generation.
As I say, it's still WiP, but it's getting close to the final deal. Let me know what y'all think.
https://dropfile.to/qByn3Qb
(the file exceeds 4chan's maximum pdf size, so it's uploaded to an external host. pls 4giv)

When's DCC Lankhmar out?

Does anyone else keep abig number of tables you use pluggwd into excel? Ive got them so that they automatically roll and display the resukt with any subtable attached to them as well.

>>54478518
All games have that problem. In fact, most of the game design talk is probably by those people I would wager.

>>54480249
Nect year

>>54478470
What kind of class restricted items are you talking about, aside from weapons and armour?

Question to fellow OSR players and/or DMs: What do you consider to be the core problems with modern approaches to rpgs?

I'm just interested in reading other peoples takes on that.

>>54481862
Magic swords are the main one, since they get a fuckton of special abilities in OSR and are exclusive to the Fighter and Thief.

Did you know, for instance, that the Fighter's more likely to be able to use Wish than a Magic-User is in any of 0E, Basic, and 1E? Luckblades are WAY more common than scrolls of Wish. Like, orders of magnitude.
I don't remember if it also extends into 3E, but there you get automatic spells so it's kind of moot.

You also have fun stuff like Ethereality being exclusive to heavy-armor classes for a long time, and all the other weird little things like that. Fighters can get swords that force save-or-dies on every hit against certain enemies!

>>54481909
Railroading. Too much focus on the DMs own special story, not letting the players do what they want.

>>54481862
>>54481934
Although I should probably note that I'm not >>54478470.

>>54479909
Skerples could never do this. His heart is too normal sized.

Does someone have blood & treasure 2nd edition monster pdf? the one in the trove is for second edition

What d100 game could i use to play d100 dungeon crawl?

>>54482176
Can't think of any OSR systems, but if you're fine with just OS there's always Runequest Mythras.
Or Warlock 2000, if your idea of a good time involves teabagging a blender.

>>54482176
WFRP.

>>54479909
My previous comment about the tables stands.

>>54481934
For reference, the three big traditional sources of Wishes are the sword of wishes, the ring of wishes, and the scroll of wishes.

The ring is class-agnostic, the sword is limited to Fighters and Thieves, and the scroll is limited to Magic-Users. Rings and swords tend to be multiple-use, with swords tending towards more uses, while scrolls are single-use unless you're really high level in a game that honestly doesn't hold your hand in getting to level 18+.

>OD&D
20% Swords * 5% +1 Sword with 2d4 Wishes = 1%
5% Rings * 10% Three Wishes = 0.5%
5% Rings * 1% Many Wishes (4d6) = 0.05%

>Greyhawk
Sword is unchanged, still 5% on table.
Ring of Three Wishes is now 4% on table, so 0.2%.
Scrolls are a bit complicated since they can have multiple spells, but with a 1.1...% chance of getting Wish as your spell, 75% chance of it being a magic-user scroll, and 20% chance of being a scroll, it eventually ends up at 0.19%.

>1E
11% Swords * 1% Luck Blade (1d4+1 Wishes) = 0.11%
5% Rings * 2% Three Wishes = 0.1%
5% Rings * 1% Multiple Wishes (2d4) = 0.05%
Again scrolls are hard to figure out, but they amount to 0.02%. (Also, this edition introduces spell failure chance if you're too low level to cast it.)

>B/X
20% Sword * 1% wishes (1d4) = 0.2%
2% Ring * 4% wishes (1d2 OR 1d3 OR 1d3+1) = 0.08%
Scrolls need not apply, obviously.

>tl;dr:
>Chance of getting at least one wish in truly random magical treasure:
>Fighters have 1.55%(LBB) / 1.25%(GH) / 0.27%(1E) / 0.28%(BX)
>Clerics have 0.55%(LBB) / 0.25%(GH) / 0.15%(1E) / 0.08%(BX)
>Wizards have 0.55%(LBB) / 0.44%(GH) / 0.19%(1E) / 0.08%(BX)

Please note that true chances can be thrown off by OD&D or 1E's Treasure Type B making weapons more likely, both's Treasure Type F negating the possibility of swords, E-H guaranteeing a scroll, AD&D's T giving 1d4 scrolls, AD&D's U-V never having scrolls.
Should hold true in dungeons, though, if your DM goes by the random tables.

>>54481934
>Magic swords are the main one,
Speaking of which, OD&D clerics could use swords that weren't magic.

I like rules cyclopedia skills

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>>54483282
>10% chance to detect traps at level 1

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Anyone else looking forward to Mutant Crawl Classics?

>>54483401
I used to not to, but then I binge read a bunch of Judge Dredd.

Now I'm looking forward to be able to run a game of Helltrekkers or Wally squad.

>>54483401
It's already out. You can find a pdf of it in the wild.

>>54483450
I get all my pdfs from the share thread,
I don't know where else to look ;-;

>>54478533
>A lot of 5e designers clearly have never actually played the game.
Actually going by the playtest stuff they really did, and they had some interesting innovations and returns to the original paradigm, but then all of that got shitcanned for the final product, either by reeeing 3.pf aspies or by nervous execs or both.

>>54483610
End result's the same.

>>54481909
Railroading and rollplaying. I'd like to engage with the fictional setting not through good rolls, but by declaring what I do and seeing the results of it.

>>54483390
Isn't that only small traps? (sepia snake sigils, contact poisons, needle trapped chests, ...)

Just came back from one of the most fun sessions I've had in a long while.
I ran TotSK for a bunch of 3.pf players, and while it took them a while(pouring through the similar-ish tombs at the beginning wasn't that interesting to them, even if I flavored it with murals and small tidbits of the Serpentine City that once stood above the tombs), the playstyle finally clicked with them around the beginning of the second level, and they had a lot of fun actually interacting with the environments, and making crazy on-the-spot plans. There was even a great example of luck and randomness developing into a perfectly fitting emerging story and character arc.
Either Skerples is onto something, or I've been lucky here. Probably the latter.
I'm just so happy that the playstyle finally resounded with them. They can't wait till next weekend, and neither can I.

>>54483720
Are you telling me that there's another skill for finding bigger traps?

>>54483852
I ran Tomb for 3 players today and they barely made it to level two with very little health left, and then one of the PCs got eaten by the black pudding.

How many classes do you use?
Do you prefer a lot of class abilities?
Do you use skills?
Race as class?

>>54483990
>How many classes do you use?
Classic 3 plus thieves, as well as the three demihuman classes.

>Do you prefer a lot of class abilities?
I like that characters have a lot of abilities based on their class, if that's what you mean.

>Do you use skills?
Yes, but I don't like it.

>Race as class?
That's what I'm doing right now, but either is fine.

>>54484030
Why dont you like them? also do you use weapon proficiences?

>>54483990
Everything from LBB and its supplements, plus AD&D bards just because I think it's cool and it's so unlikely anyway.

When it comes to class abilities, I like to keep it pretty simple. Enough so that everyone feels different enough, but I guess pretty limited.

Skills? Eh sort of I guess

>Race as class?
I'm honestly indifferent to it all, the games seem to be fine either way.

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>During a 10 minute break or exploration turn, you can heal each other's wounds.
>Roll 1d6+Wisdom modifier when using a first aid kit on someone else, or use 1d4+Wisdom modifier if doing it on yourself.
>You can only heal once since taking a new injury and you cannot heal past your old health total when you last healed. Only healing magic can do that.

How do this sound for simple first aid system?

>>54481934
I am >>54478470 and I endorse this post.

>>54481862
Besides what the other guy said, many potions (giant strength, heroism, speed etc.) are primarily useful to the fighty types; likewise the Girdle of Giant Strength and Gauntlets of Ogre Power. OD&D's Arnesonian swords also frequently grant spell-like powers (and in fact, if you read the FFC you can see that Arneson's own campaign actually had the swords outright granting spells). And once you get to the Gryhawk supplement there's a bunch of potions and miscellaneous items that aren't just better for fighters but marked F or F, C, T.

Any good rules for a hell on mars/doom/space marine/space hulk dungeon crawl?

>>54484102
>Why dont you like them?
I guess I don't like that they take up a lot of room and that they aren't completely unique to thieves, although thieves use them the most. So players have to get involved in the mechanics even though they might not be of use to them. I also think that the skills feel either arbitrary or imposing, one could have a Warlock 1999 number of skills and it would be awful, but it also feels weird that there are only 8 skills in the classic game. I guess I'd rather have some kind of mighty deed-like system for thieves instead.

>also do you use weapon proficiences?
I give fighters a +1 to-hit with their preferred weapon.

>>54483860
Roleplaying. Or, more likely, per-described search routines to cut down on chaff discussions.

>>54484313
Could you be more specific on what you want, because I don't see why you can't use earth dungeon rules for space dungeons.

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>>54484250
I just give people bonus hp at the start if they brought the skills and tools for it.

>>54483990
>How many classes do you use?
I've run just Fighter and MU before. My next I will probably start out with the original 3, elf, and dwarf. Later on I'll probably add in others.

>Do you prefer a lot of class abilities?
Preferably only as many as you need to distinguish them and no more.

>Do you use skills?
My current is using skills. It's all right, but I don't know how much it helps. But I think for my next I'm just going to use NWPs. Thief skills as-is are gross though.

>Race as class?
Ambivalent.

>>54484242
>and it's so unlikely anyway.
If you haven't gotten one and don't expect to, you're not actually using it.

>>54484438
>>54484321
What skill mechanic are you using?
What is the system you use more?

I ask this question because i am fetching for ideas for a new campaign, and sometimes i think having a lot of options makes the game start to bloat and feel different, i am thinking in using blood and treasure

What do you think of having players roll for polymorph survival? (System shock)

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>>54483906
Excellent. Probably should have retreated then. It took my players 2 sessions to begin to clear the 2nd floor.
>>54483852
>Probably the latter.
Well, I do try very hard. But I'm glad it worked in any case! That's great to here.

>>54484576
Not a fan.
It's sort of OK for resurrection failure though.

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>>54483990
>How many classes do you use?
The 7 standard with emphasis on the player's idea. Druid? Cleric with some extra spell options. Witch? Magic-User with some ritual spells. Sometimes I do homebrew classes.

>Do you prefer a lot of class abilities?
I prefer each class to have a decent role to fill.

>Do you use skills?
Absolutely; LotFPs d6 skillset is perfect.

>Race as class?
In my new campaign, I use all 7 classes with the Demihumans reskinned as human classes:
Elf: Spellsword
Dwarf: Barbarian (usually replace Architecture with Bushcraft)
Halfling: Ranger

>>54484614
>his barbarians aren't masters of engineering
I bet they can't even arrange flowers!

>>54484483
>What skill mechanic are you using?
I use LotFP's, DCC's and Basic Fantasy's regularly for different games. Right now I'm using LotFP because I have newcomers in my game and I believe it's the easiest system for them to grok.

>What is the system you use more?
Same systems as above, but right now I use DCC.

>sometimes i think having a lot of options makes the game start to bloat and feel different
I think players generally like the idea of being able to customize their character in a lot of ways, but I think that their actions and management of resources in-game is more important. It's a hard thing to balance for me though, because enforcing too much of the latter can be a turnoff for some players.

>>54484475
What's important is that the option is open, just so some incredibly lucky player can feel special.

>>54484388

Guess I'm looking for future weapons; more shooting/less melee. I guess osr Deathwatch

>>54483990
Usually the three core classes + thief. I also use Dyson's sub-classes on occasion.

Depends on the class.

I just use ability checks for skills.

Depends on the game.

>>54484576
I like it.

>>54484755
White Star, The Stellar Hack, The Black Hack: Guns & Ammo, the BECMI Blackmoor modules, Mutant Future, Gamma World, etc.

>>54484483
Right now, it's a variant of the 3.X system with a different skill list and a maximum rank. I'm considering changing it to X-in-6 though, because the d20/DC mechanic is too swingy for my tastes.

System for the one I'm running is an OSR-ified 3.X that becomes more OSR-ified by the day, because it originated as dissatisfaction with 3.X. I'm not even sure it can be called 3.X any more, honestly. For the one I'm going to run, I'm in the process of writing my own rules based on various OSR games and retroclones to make things work like I want them to.

>>54484824
I feel you man, i would be glad to read those rules , also read blood and treasure it is a 3.x retroclone

>>54483990

Fighter, Rogue, Mage.

>Class Abilities
As simple as possible. I use a staggered 'even level odd level' form of advancement so its very slow and levels matter a bit less.

>Skills
I use a universal roll under skillcheck system, with Rogues getting a bonus.

>Race as Class
No, but I'm thinking of allowing players special race powers or bonuses as a form of advancement out of character. Like you just have to play humans but once you befriend the ape-man tribes you can now play an ape man, that sort of thing.

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Best LotFP module to begin a campaign with?

>>54485151
You don't use LotFP modules to begin campaigns, but to end them.

>>54485181
That is patently untrue.

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>>54485151
>LotFP modules

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Okay, Rough draft of the first bit for carousing. I haven't put art in it, or formatted because fuck using Word for that. But its basically what I'm going for. Looking for feedback, is it useful? I think each scene table needs a bit of work, some trimming of words but also a bit more content. How do people feel about having to make their own monsters? I can't really tell if its actually useful or just fun to write desu. If anyone has another idea of a different scene to mess with I'd be interested.

>>54484755
There's all >>54484819 and Stars Without Number, Hulks & Horrors and Warband which is specifically a 40k Rogue Trader/Slaves To Darkness style.

>>54479909
I've got life shit to take care of, but I want to take a look at this and will get back to you. Really enjoyed 1st edition.

>>54485151
I legit enjoy tower of the stargazer, but I made it a bit different. Slightly less random death, the teleportoscope switches a party member with a moon monster and if they kill it in time they get the party member back.

I hear Death Frost Doom can be fun for starting a post undead clusterfuck campaign with new characters but haven't tried it. Want to though. I'd probably mess with it too. The God That Crawls would work fine. Thulian Echos needs more time to establish the world then do a time travel journal otherwise its not as effective a technique imo.

>>54475486
The fighter, the thief, the priest, and the wizard.

All of these are essential because they represent, or are intended to represent, the spheres of influence in medieval society. These are the nobility, the peasantry, the clergy, and the scholars, respectively.

>>54485151
Either Tower of the Stargazer, or the sample adventure in the DM Handbook.

>>54484582
>Well, I do try very hard. But I'm glad it worked in any case! That's great to here.
It was more a jab at my refereeing abilities, than you, no worries.
It's a fun experience so far.

>>54483906
Tfw mine avoided most of the dangers and through clever play and sheer luck managed to slay the basilisk. Almost started hitting the death threshold, sure, but still props to them. They shat their pants from the tension though because they knew this thing was way over their level, but the barbarian was stuck in rage, and not wanting to leave a comrade behind, they rallied together against the beast.

>>54484250
I'd go d4+wis and d3+wis because there's only so much you can do with first aid, but that's by feel. I don't think it would make that much difference in practice. Main issue is how much it costs, how many times a kit can be used before its done. Seems like you're skipping skills and just using stat mods? Frequency of use would start messing with the hp-as-resource dynamic, so that's worth keeping an eye on.

>>54484402
Neat, but what if they want to use it on someone else?

Off the top of my head it could be interesting to have it start as a d6, next use its a d4, then a d3 then its gone.

>>54485313
>Warband

Any idea where to find this?

>>54482113
I am also looking for this

>>54485465
>All of these are essential because they represent, or are intended to represent, the spheres of influence in medieval society. These are the nobility, the peasantry, the clergy, and the scholars, respectively.
That's a nice idea, but I'm pretty sure that it's entirely coincidence. Or revisionism, to be less charitable.

Fighters are a thing because Gary fucking loved Sword & Sorcery books, Thieves are a thing because a dude wanted his dwarf to pick a lock with a dagger, Clerics are a thing because a vampire PC was dominating and Arneson decided to make a Van Helsing, and Magic-Users are a thing because people wanted to have Gandalf in their fantasy wargames and some dude had previously made a hack where Gandalf could fling fireballs.

Not to mention that, well, it all falls apart pretty quickly once you add in the other classes. The Anti-Cleric from the LBBs; the Paladin straight out of Three Hearts and Three Lions, introduced alongside the Thief; the Assassin (expanded from the LBB specialist) and Monk (straight from The Destroyer), alongside the NPC Sage (again expanding a specialist, although Arneson couldn't get them to allow it as a PC class); and, of course, the Druid.

Seriously, where does the Evil High Priest fit within your mold? Note that he, too, has a fortress in the wilderness and a few hundred men guarding it.


Also, didn't the scholars tend to be part of either the clergy or the nobility anyhow?

>>54485717
http://swordplusone.com/warband_print.pdf

>>54485151

Probably Tower of the Stargazer as it's an intro module. The Vornheim supplement could be used to create a city with encounters within its walls. However I agree with the other anon that quite a few LotFP modules are best played as one-shots with world-changing actions that will probably end your campaign.

Is Avalon Hill outdoor survival in the trove? If yes, where?

>>54485151
Lamentations of the Gingerbread Princess! I really like the Gonzoness of it because I feel it really reinforces a "awful fairies" tone and the module can be set just about anywhere. I usually replace halflings with Gypsies though.

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>>54486615
I have no clue and can't be bothered to look, but it's small enough to be uploaded so here you have it.

>>54485680
>but what if they want to use it on someone else?

It's a party wide buff: +4 hp to everyone. Or less, if the group feels too large for the number of medics.

Matters less by midlevels, but it makes a world of difference for the hirelings.

>>54485936

Thanks!

>>54486664
thanks mate.

Who here would be a bad enough dude to only use only LBB to create a fully fledged retroclone for the 21st century? Any reading of other rulebooks, supplements, blogs etc are disallowed.

>>54487144
So, what, Delving Deeper?

Although I suppose that took some stuff from Chainmail.

>>54485841
I believe the question was "If you were Gygax without nostalgic or traditional influences, how would you set up the class structure," and not "What was the actual reason Gygax and Arneson set up the classes how they did."

Who pissed in your cheerios this morning?

>>54484819
>The Stellar Hack

Does anyone have a copy? Didn't see it in the trove. Thanks

>>54475486
Still probably stick with the original four. Even removing all the stuff about nostalgia and tradition, they make the game work just fine with them and nothing else.

>>54487877
It wasn't that particular question that got them, but rather someone's outright false explanation to why that was the case.

>>54487960
Fighting-Man, Magic-User, Cleric, and Paladin?

>>54479909
Okay, read it. Things as I went through. Big things first that apply to the whole book.

Paragraph spacing will make it easier to read. It'll increase your page count, but cutting stuff will make that shorter again. Right now each paragraph is butt-to-head and I find it helps distinguish sections, concepts, etc. if they're separated. Getting an actual editor who can help you prune and rephrase will help a lot too, there's a bunch that could be removed and it would save you some space/make things more clear. Just trust them and let them take out stuff.

I like the getting started as a player section. Probably could tighten/cut a few unnecessary words but it gets across a lot of things I agree are important.

All of the optional non-random character generation rules can go in the optional rules section. It'll save time, make initial character creation simpler and I think suits the friendly vibe you're going for.

There's a lot of redundancy in the explanation of attributes between the character creation and game rules section that can be streamlined.

A chart/table that makes what gives XP for what would be handy. The injury to locations section could likewise use a table/chart for clarification.

P.42 table 18 and 19 both have the same title and I think one is for Hunter and the other is for Expert.

>>54488313
cont.

A procedural chart for what different tribe members do would help. Or reference sheets in the index. Probably a way to make/mark a lunar calendar to keep track of them too.

Everything about how magic works is really interesting. I already used the older stuff for cultists, really crazy wizards, shamans, and antediluvian horror related needs in my games. The new spells have some cool stuff in it.

You probably don't need to write 'Example X' in front of each instance of hazards.

Dice drop mapping is one of my weaknesses. I like it a lot. Yours is dependent on having a bunch of dice colours though, which isn't a problem for me but seems at odds with the introductory and casual friendly writing style.

Small thing, but it might be a good idea to add that mapping can be done with hexes as an alternative to squares. All of the terrain detail tables are super useful.

An example Chimera would be useful. It seems like this is a place there would be another table for making them.

Other small thing, some of the references to source material in your quotes on full page art are done inside brackets and others aren’t.

Moorlocks and posthumans are neat. Fun way to not!elves.

Are the martians grells?

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What's the simplest possible magic system you could use for OSR? No spell slots or spell levels please.

>>54488621
You get a pool of magic points made by combining two appropriate stats (INT/CON, WIS/CON maybe).

Each spell you've learned costs a certain amount of points.

You regenerate points slowly throughout the day or swiftly while you rest.

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>>54488621
>What's the simplest possible magic system you could use for OSR? No spell slots or spell levels please.
probably the Miracle system Whitehack uses(I'm ignoring the No Spell Slots requirement here though)

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>>54488621

You have one gimmick. (cause doors to stick, detect ambushes, send messages,...)
You can use it until your usage die expends.
You may or may not have several usage dice (or several gimmicks with seperate dice).
Chance to get a gimmick at char gen, they can also be acquired in play. (by ref fiat)

Is the GLOG usable right now? How usable is it?

>>54488972
It's got a few crippling ambiguities, but it's usable.

>>54489015
What's the best OSR system at the moment? Most of them are pretty modular, and Goblin Punch has some great ideas.

sorry, I'm new to osr

>>54489042
It depends on what you're looking for in a game.

>>54489059
A moderate amount of crunch, low power ceiling so that a 1st level character isn't useless and can actually join a party and contribute.

>>54489085
AD&D. You aren't required or expected to use all the rules/tables/matrices.

>>54457274 is a minimalist AD&D retroclone.
I wouldn't run it, but it contains (most of) the important AD&D rules.

>>54487903
http://www.rpgnow.com/product/190195/The-Stellar-Hack--Starlite

is it worth getting into 2e?
or is there a better alternative for gritty heroism?

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>>54489170
>>54489085
>I wouldn't run it, but it contains (most of) the important AD&D rules.
Just to be clear hon this suggestion: read Challenge System, then skim AD&D, then run AD&D.
If you can't stand Gygaxian prose: read Challenge System, then skim OSRIC, then run OSRIC.
If poor organization kills your boner: read Challenge System, then skim 2e, then run 2e.

DO NOT CONSULT THE BOOKS IN PLAY.
Spells go on index cards, rules go by memory, copies of tables go on your DM screen via paperclip.
If your screen is getting too cluttered, [pic related] your book to find tables easily.

If you don't know a rule, make a ruling and make a note of the ruling.
When prepping the next session, look to see if a rule existed.
Either way, you can discard the note. Or keep it. I'm not a cop.

>>54489606
Depending on what kind of heroism you're talking about, you could go worse than Dungeon Crawl Classics. It's a fair bit deadlier, but allows just the same kind of fantasy hero stunts as 2e does.

Anyone have any favorite adventures for B/X?

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>>54489671

>>54489042
For me, it's Lamentations of the Flame Princess. It scratches all the itches I'm looking for in my games.

If I were to want something more gonzo D&D style, DCC for sure. And BFRPG is my go to for vanilla-style D&D.

>>54489606
>is it worth getting into 2e?
Ye

>>54489671
B4

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>>54488972
It's usable, but you're going to need to hack bits together from other systems. Like... a monster list. Rules for travel. Price lists. Mutation tables. Random encounter tables. That sort of thing.

>>54479909
Is there any one specific area you'd like me to target with a fine-toothed pedant-ray? Otherwise, >>54488313
>>54488343
has it right on all counts.
>>54489042
Last thread there was a huge list of systems.
>“The Monks of Cool, whose tiny and exclusive monastery is hidden in a really cool and laid-back valley in the lower Ramtops, have a passing-out test for a novice. He is taken into a room full of all types of clothing and asked: Yo, my son, which of these is the most stylish thing to wear? And the correct answer is: Hey, whatever I select.”

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>>54489878
>Like... a monster list.

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>>54489977
>ultra gay wingdings icon shit instead of the textual shorthand that's been in use for 40 years

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>>54489977
Oh right, I forgot he did that.
Forgot how fucking annoying those symbols are as well.

>>54489878
Pyramids, Small Gods, and The Last Hero are underappreciated.

>>54467063

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>>54490063
>ultra gay
Now you can complain about many things on /tg/, but not being heterosexual is pretty much a staple virtue of this god-forsaken place.
>>54490086
All of them are underappreciated, desu.
>>54488621
You can do 1 Magic Thing per fight and 1 Major Magic Thing per day. A minor magic thing can always be "deal your levelxd6 in damage, spread around however you'd like".

The other players vote, after you declare your Magic Thing, on whether or not it's a) suitable and b) balanced. The GM gets veto power.

That's... about as simple as I can make it. Not /good/ mind you, but simple.

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>>54490063
>>54490078

Are you people seriously complaining about easy to use, fun little icons?

Why is using a little instead of HD a problem? What's wrong with instead of morale? Why is it gay to use a visual aid instead of just text?

I don't even like the GLOG, but there is literally nothing wrong with using symbols. You're gay. Fuck both of you.

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>>54489671

B1 In Search of the Unknown
BF1 Morgansfort: The Western Lands Campaign
Tower of the Stargazer

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>>54490063
Did Arnold or Skerples fuck your girlfriend or something?

>>54488972
Melancholiesandmirthanon made essentially a GLOG player's guide with I think almost every you'd need to run it.

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>>54490298
>Are you people seriously complaining about easy to use, fun little icons?
I don't find them that easy to use. I mean, I can see why he did it, but I personally find it annoying.
It's not like I'm some sort of objective arbiter of right and wrong though. You like 'em; go use 'em! :D

But if you really want to know:
-the density of black ink makes them wasteful to print
-the transition between symbol to text makes reading slower until you are familiar with the symbols at a glance
-the rewards for getting familiar with the symbols are using this one document
-Arnold uses them nowhere else, not even on his blog
-It's annoying to hand-write them, and there are plenty of cases where writing "Mor: 10" is going to be much easier to read later than "little squiggly flag: 10"
-it grates on every principle of my process design/technical writing background

I feel kind of bad complaining about this though, because I don't actually use that document in my games. I wrote my own.

>>54490298
They're not easy to use. I know what HD means. I know what morale means. I'm intelligent enough to not need hearts and similies to explain it to me. They're not fun because I'm over 10.

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I'm using this system here for my group in a few days. Very experimental, but I have high hopes. Any last minute touches I should tweak?

>>54491050
Seems combat heavy but that might what you're going for. I like the 'hold a part, find the whole' spell, that's neat.

>>54491270

True, but that's kind of what the spontaneous 5 cost ability was for, plus I'm not sure how much I'm regulating to "ritual spells" and potence, since those rules aren't in place yet.

>>54491050

The 2 cost elemental bolt seems kinda worthless. It's double the cost of the 1 cost for +1 damage on average.

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Ok Map Anon. This is your last chance to give me a name and a link to your blog. Otherwise, you're going into TotSK v2.0 as Pervy Molesto, the Goat Fiddler.

>>54491900
seems legit to me

>>54490298
They're obnoxious. I know what morale and reaction are, why would I want to have to look up to remember which one the smiley face is and which one the flag is? What's wrong with providing things in an easy to use manner rather than having symbols that need to be explained?

>>54485054
Will check it out.

I'll probably post a copy of my rules here when they're done to see what other people think of them, yeah.

anyone here plays for gold & glory?

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>>54492065
Well, we're going with that then. V2.0 will be up once I've finished confirming the license with Scrap.

>>54492273
I only play for pride & platinum

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>>54492273
Sorry, only Copper and Smugness.

>>54491770

That's true, but it also gives you a 1 in 6 chance of doing the special elemental overcharge effect. Not sure how else to improve it.

>>54492323
>>54492496
I hate you and i love you

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>>54492496
Actually, that should probably be "Electrum and Smugness".

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>>54492597
>gold, copper
Don't lets those smarmy, smithy nobs get to you!
I play for Wood and Weal.

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>>54492273
I play for Obscurity and Ceramic Discs.

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>>54492496
>>54492616
>>54492711
Alloy and Alliteration.

>>54473326
You've got some innovative ideas. I dabbled with some of your old house rules.

Class as race is not to my taste. Way too constrictive.

The art is puerile.

Keep at er, bruh. Content is content.

>>54489606
>is it worth getting into 2e?
No, literally never.
>or is there a better alternative for gritty heroism?
Plenty. 1E for one. BECMI/RC for another.

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>>54493272

Hey thanks. I don't actually use class as race though, that blog post was about imaging the normal D&D classes as races.

>The art is puerile
No comment.

>>54483610
Elaborate.

>>54493457
I don't know exactly what they mean, but I think they mean how, in beta testing, they tried to amp the physical fighters up to near wizard levels for late-game stuff. There was a fuckload of bitching about that from wizard players, so they nerfed the fighters back down again.

>>54493335
You personally are the reason they made a separate thread.

>>54493372
Those are awesome looking cultists

>>54493372
>No comment.

That's the point?

I could give a shit. I'm an Elmore man through and through.

>>54493701
Who's they? And if you mean there's a separate 2e general now, then... uh... great, I guess? I'm all for that. Pretty much optimal if you ask me. If they can take the Dragonlance series as well that's perfect.

does anyone have any suggestions for a lightweight saving throw system? i thought i had one saved somewhere that reduced the standard b/x system into a simpler one made of three saving roll categories.

>>54494477
I can't think of anyone who likes 2e that also likes Dragonlance. Nobody wants that mess.

>>54493788

I don't understand. I just said no comment because obviously it's not great or incredible art, but I don't think it's unnecessary or dragging the rest of the content down.

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>>54494509
Roll under your stats. Con vs Poison, Dex vs Fireballs, etc.
And then, one other Save value for all the stuff that doesn't fit under the other stats (like Saving not to straight-up die. It's also a luck stat). Save=5+Charisma bonus + level/4 or something.

>>54494511
>>54493090

>>54494747
That guy is an obvious troll, though.

>>54494747
In his defense, Death Knights and Ansalon are cool.

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>>54494511
I thought the novelizations were decent enough.

I also think the War of the Lance would make an excellent objective-based sandbox. The original DL series modules are strongly railroaded, but Ansalon itself is well-mapped and at a good scale for a tightly focused campaign where the players can be key actors in determining the fate of the War of the Lance.

You could easily break up the campaign into one about "defeating Takhisis" and let players figure out the ways to do that - things like diving dungeons to recover the dragon-orbs/dragonlance, attempting to sabotage the plans of the various Dragonarmies, forging alliances with the elves and dwarves, and so forth.

>>54473253
Yes, in Dungeon World.

>>54485151
I've started with tower of the stargazer and once with Blood in the Chocolate. They both worked very well and left alot of threads to build on.

>>54475298
Great post but you forgot that clerics have turning.

>>54483496
The discord.

>>54494519
No offense meant. Your written content has its own panache. It is untempered.

You ever consider soliciting art?

>>54496080

It would be an extreme amount of art. One to three drawings every day? Very unresonable for any artist or even a group of artists.

Instead, I'd rather just shit out an image of whatever I'm thinking of. It's actually kind of nice that I can visualize and have a image of any weird monster, any situation or magic item.

>>54495426
There's some other subtleties I didn't cover too, like how thieves generally get a faster XP progression which means in a party-based context the thief often ends up being relatively "expendable". I don't want to suggest D&D is a super carefully designed system either, but there definitely is a sort of emergent logic to it that I imagine got hammered it from Gygax and Arneson's play experiences.

>>54491900
Can I seriously go with "Janon"
No blog yet, but I'll use it for it one day.

>>54491900
Also, does the map need any corrections or fixes? I modified it so it makes more sense in my head, but I can fix elements or shake them around if you need to.
Especially elevation was changed a bit and thrown around at points, and I've noticed that in the current version, (24) just wouldn't really fit that well with the description.

>>54488313
>>54488343
this is all super useful, thank you

>>54489878
>Is there any one specific area you'd like me to target with a fine-toothed pedant-ray
I'm kinda dyslexic. So it's gonna be RIDDLED WITH TYPOES that I'm bad at spotting.
Not the most exciting but incredibly useful.

The martians in WP&WS are classic war-of-the-worlds martians. They probably look like grells on their home planet, but on earth they'd look like blobfish because of the gravity.

>>54490063
Wow, you'd really hate the 52 pages then.

>>54496597
>you'd really hate the 52 pages then.
Post it

>>54490354
>Melancholiesandmirthanon made essentially a GLOG player's guide
That's pretty useful, did anyone else make a compilation of the GLOG rules? I think I got all pdfs from Goblin Punch but something feels missing...

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>>54497133

I've decided to go to GaryCon next year. I've done GenCon, DragonCon and various small local cons but nothing OSR centric. OSR is my first love I'm primarily a DCC and 5E player. B/X in all its incarnations being my favorite however.

Any tips or advice from those that have been? Planning on flying into Milwaukee a day early and leaving the day after. Staying at Grand Geneva.

>>54496597
I don't know about him, but honestly those one-page things drove me insane. I was looking for a weapons-vs-armour chart, which he has (not as one of the 52 though), and it just had symbols with no explanation. Still to this day I don't know what the symbols are expected to mean.

Seriously. Look at this chart and tell me what the categories of weapons are supposed to be. https://rolesrules.blogspot.com/2013/04/one-page-weapon-vs-armor-chart.html

>>54497231
Different weapons and damage types against "no armor", "light armor", "medium armor", and "heavy armor", with some animals or insects along with the armored dudes to give you context on how well they might work on different kind of monsters as well.

Seems simple enough.

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>>54494509
I'm a fan of Swords & Wizardry's single stat system. You have a single stat for your saving throws and maybe a category or two you get a bonus against. That way, rather than trying to remember 5 different stats for every character, you just remember 1 stat and a special category, and that's it.

>>54497268
No shit, sherlock. That's literally what I was looking for when I found it. I meant, what the categories of weapon are.

>>54497405
Bludgeoning, slashing/piercing, slashing/bludgeoning, piercing.

>>54497451
There's a crossbow in the one you label "slashing/bludgeoning", so that doesn't work. But even if there weren't --- what makes a weapon fall into one of these categories? Does any given bludgeoning weapon fall into "bludgeoning" or "slashing/bludgeoning"? Likewise for the others.

What's a usage die? How should it work, and what limited supply items should use it?

>>54497852
Every now and then, you roll it. If it comes up at or below a certain number (often 1) you replace it with the next lowest die size.
When the last die goes.away, it runs out.

It's for things that are hard to reasonably track, like arrows.
How many arrows do you use in a minute (round)? Doesn't it vary?

>>54497140
I'm not the guy who brought it up, but unless it looks substantially different in print, i.e. we're seeing 2 pages instead of 1, then I'd consider the work too 'busy' with icons, symbols and primary color pops. If it works for you and is intuitive, that's great, and I wish you all the best. But it's put me right off the whole thing. But I will try reading it again later.

I'm sure some retroclone/homebrew has done it, but what are some more general names for the saving throw categories?

Something like "save vs. physical effect" instead of "save vs. turn to stone".

>>54498378
Fortitude, reflex, will

>>54498378
See, the problem here is that the original saving throws were EXTREMELY specific and trying to make them more general quickly has them stop making sense. (Save vs. Petrification to avoid the cave-in, save vs. wands to dodge a bullet, save vs. Death Ray to deflect an attack, shit like that.)

Hence you get, well, the whole Reflex/Fortitude/Will thing 3E went for. And the one-save system some OSR like.

Also, well, the original save categories have moved around a bunch over time and changed a lot.

If you'd have to generalize them, though...

>Death Ray/Poison
Save vs. Instant Death
>Stone
Save vs. Transformation
>Dragon Breath
Save vs. Area Effect
>Wands
Save vs., I dunno, magical devices? It's basically just Spells except a bit easier to save against. It's a pretty specific save to give monsters an easier time against the Magic-User's fireball wand.
Note also that other magical devices tend to use Save vs. Spell.
>Spells
Either keep it as Save vs. Spells (ALL spells, perhaps, as in OD&D), or generalize it to Save vs. Magic.

But yeah, >>54498444 is right. Either that or condensing it even further to Mind/Body, or even further to a single save with classes getting bonuses to specific circumstances (Wizard saves at 14+ but gets +2 bonus against magical effects, for instance.)

>>54475486
Sword man, axe man, polearm man, advanced polearm man

>>54498291
Actually it doesn't really work for me and I agree with you. I just thought that if that guy hated a couple icons here and there then it'd give him an aneurysm.

>>54497852
>Any item listed in the equipment section that has a Usage die is considered a consumable, limited item. When that item is used the next Turn, its Usage die is rolled. If the roll is 1-2 then the usage die is downgraded to the next lower die in the following chain:

d20 > d12 > d10 > d8 > d6 > d4

>When you roll a 1-2 on a d4, the item is expended and the character has no more of it left or there are no more charges.

>>54498558
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7y5kkkDyqOQ

>>54497140
I'm honestly not sure what I hate more, the excessive icons, the unneeded colors, or the terrible font.

>>54498378
This guy has some. In the article (about halfway down) and some more slightly different ones in the comments.

https://dungeonofsigns.blogspot.com/2014/09/why-i-use-tthe-classic-saving-throw.html

Personally, I have no problems with saying "save vs. Death" or "save vs. Petrification/Stone/whatever"... but I have to say that "save vs. Wyrd" sounds pretty cool.

>>54496482
No worries. Really enjoy your work and blog.

>>54496528
>H.G.rells
Cool. When I'm editing for typos/gramar I double space everything, print it out and read the sentences one at a time in reverse order starting from the bottom of a paragraph. Keeps everything distinct so I don't just let things flow as they already do in my head. Its arduous but it works. Also tricking/bribing a friend into giving it a look.

What're the big differences between ASSH and AD&D?

New to OSR games. Can someone explain how spellcasting works? Does the spell immediately happen that round, or does it happen during the caster's next turn? Or beginning of initiative order?

>>54500481
I haven't read ASSH but from what I understand, the author's voluminous verbosity dwarfs even the gargantuan grandiloquence of Gygax himself.

>>54500576
Depends on the spell.

>>54481934
But why can't wizards cast wishes from a sword?

>>54500647
Because wizards can't wield swords.

>>54500576
Depends on the system, like so much else.

Some common implementations:
>Spells begin and finish casting during the action used to cast them.
>Spells begin casting at the beginning of the round during a declaration phase, and finish casting whenever the caster's action comes up.
>Spells begin casting at the beginning of the round etc., and finish casting after a period of time specified by the spell (AD&D spells measured in segments, for instance).

There's probably a ton more I'm missing here, but those are the really common ones.

>>54500647
Because the sword will literally kill them for trying (or mind control them), in some cases.
In OD&D, ALL swords are intelligent - and all swords damage those of other alignments, and try to control their wielder on touch.
In AD&D only a quarter of swords are intelligent, and only intelligent swords have alignments.
B/X has 30% of swords be intelligent, and is like AD&D with alignment.

In other cases it's much like how the Fighting-Man can't cast fireballs from a wand - they just aren't properly attuned to that sort of item, I guess.

To use other examples from the original OD&D list, only Clerics can use a Staff of Healing and only Magic-Users a Staff of Wizardry, but both can use a Staff of Striking.
Only Magic-Users can use Brooms of Flying or Mirrors of Life Trapping.
Only Fighting-Men can use Swords (which include such powers as wishes, flight, healing, illusion generation, teleportation, telekinesis, etc.).
Only Dwarves can properly use the "War Hammer +3, 6" Throwing Range with Return" (all others treat it as a War Hammer +2).

It's just thematic niche protection, I guess.

Also, and this is just weird trivia, but OD&D doesn't actually place limits on sword powers. AD&D says that "Flying, 12"/turn" is a 1 hour/day ability - OD&D is just "Flying". (The 12" speed thing is from the Fly spell.)

>>54500786
They can in AD&D, but they get -5 to hit and can't use the magical abilities.

>>54500862
>all swords damage those of other alignments, and try to control their wielder on touch.
This is getting reeeeaaaaal nitpicky now but actually only swords of an Intelligence greater than 6 try to control their wielders. Those of 6 or less have no Egoism score and are unable to attempt control per the way the rule works.

Is there a good map of Astonishing Swordsmen and Sorcerers of Hyperborea available anywhere? The trove doesn't seem to hold anything.

Does anyone have a scan of the LotFP playtest document?

Is there a book about herbs and uses the players can find?

How do i get started with mystara?

>>54501446
No, but the stuff about magic in it was used for the new magic system in Vaginas are Magic.

>>54500647
Magic Swords are finicky badtards that will have no master but tanned Chads in leotards.

>>54500647 c >>54483186

>>54501537
https://www.abebooks.com/book-search/title/health-and-longevity/author/richardson-joseph-g/

I had a copy of this once. I threw it out because half the spine was replaced by tape, and a the pages were essentially mase of mold.
Fun book though. The advice is gives was dubious when new, but being 100 years out of date does it no favors.

>>54501006
Huh, that's true. Forgot that bit.

Alright, so half the swords try to control anyone who picks them up (twice as many as any other edition - it's a very Arnesonian thing, and I think Gygax didn't like it much), plus a bit more since 10% of swords have an Origin/Purpose. (1% chance on Extraordinary Powers table in AD&D.)

All OD&D swords have alignments, though (it's the first thing you roll for), and do 2d6 damage to those diametrically opposed and 1d6 damage to those of other alignments (half if the character is forced to pick it up, to prevent hireling cheese).

Also, of course, most swords don't really have much in the way of Egoism and thus probably won't be able to mind control you most of the time, and some of the things they'll force you to do are relatively trivial (don't pick up other swords, bling up your sword).

Eh, it's a thing at least.

>>54501537
The 1E DMG actually has a surprisingly neat appendix on exactly that topic.

It even uses it (alongside the REPUTED MAGICAL PROPERTIES OF GEMS on p.26-27) for the sample scroll recipe it gives.

SCROLL OF PROTECTION FROM PETRIFICATION (1 serving)
>1 oz. giant squid sepia
Standard base for scroll ink - alternatively giant octopus ink.
>1 basilisk eye
>3 cockatrice feathers
>1 scruple of venom from a medusa's snakes
Hair from the dog that bit you, basically.
>1 large peridot, powdered
"Chrysolite: wards off spells"
"Green: Venus - reproduction - sight - resurrection"
>1 medium topaz, powdered
"Topaz: wards off evil spells"
"Yellow: secrecy - homeopathy - jaundice"
>2 drams holy water
For flavor, presumably, in both senses of the word.
>6 pumpkin seeds
"Virility, organ tonic"

>>54502979
Whoops, forgot to actually say which appendix it is.

APPENDIX J: HERBS, SPICES AND MEDICINAL VEGETABLES
Page 220 to 221 in my copy.

I'm currently writing a homebrew game but I sort of want to keep that whole 'get to X level, get a free fort' thing that D&D has.

How should I determine what level gets it?

>>54503281
About halfway through is good. It makes for a good point of change, where the entire game becomes something different.

What is a good generic city? or a good way to create one?

>>54503281
>I'm currently writing a homebrew game but I sort of want to keep that whole 'get to X level, get a free fort' thing that D&D has.
I don't know if D&D has ever actually had that?

The closest you get is, like, the Cleric getting a half-off discount due to clerical connection and/or divine aid. Or the Assassin/Monk killing their predecessors and nicking their hideouts/monasteries.
Also, well, you could generally build a fort whenever you wanted if you had enough money, it was just that at name level you also got some extra benefits to doing so (free troops, apprentices, that -50% Off coupon, taxation of the surrounding land, etc.)


Anyway, the level they get it should depend on what you want your game to focus on. If it's an end-game reward, you can open it up at the end. If it's just the start of a new phase of gameplay, either put it at the middle or maybe a third in if you've got a third phase going on as well.

B/X puts it towards the middle (9/14), OD&D towards the end (9ish/indefinite, but name level advancement is glacial in that edition), and BECMI towards roughly a third in (level 9 of 36 in the mortal game, technically 9/72 including the immortal game or 9/144 including the "You Win At D&D" super-secret Great Old One ending).

>>54488621
You can cast each spell you have in your spellbook once per day.

New thread lads >>54504203