Critical Role General

>tone down keyleth hating
who is this imposter

when is the stream starting? Converting to australian time is confusing.

>>54562379
5-10 minutes depending on how many times they fuck up stream settings

>>54562324
>tone down keyleth hating

that is entirely on her

also, good job with the OP thread discussion, I normally make these threads using that image but I was late tonight. Seems like the image is just a good visual indicator.

>>54562379
Just started. Darin De'Paul is there, hell yeah.

>no more lav mics
god bless

oh god, that campaign book

>in my world, no feels bad ever! everyone's friends! and GAY!

Laura is adorable.

>>54562324
My hope is that they get the boon from Ioun, then go to Kord and get his input/boon, which will probably boil down to them testing their might against him proper before Grog gets the boon.

After that, I really think they should just go and take on/out Vecna. They could possibly get help from more of the gods (Melora, the goddess of nature and the person who helped make Keyleth's Vestige staff, the Trickster god that Sam/Scanlan inquired about) but if you get (basically) the top four head dieties + Sarenrae's boons, that should be enough to make the Vecna fight mostly even, assuming he's not a true god yet.

I also don't think Keyleth deserves a deity's boon because her entire life has been all, "fuck the gods, they don't deserve our worship." At least Percy, the other main god-hater of the group, disliked them more out of lack of knowledge and a bit of fear than Keyleth's supposed reverence towards nature.

>>54562728
they need to kill vecna before that live show
those are the fucking worst and i dont need a big moment to be interrupted by the crowd

>>54562614
>campaign book
Huh?

>>54562774
My hope is that the live show is actually the epilogue/battle royale "after campaign" episode that the group and Matt want to do.

>>54562792
matt's making a campaign book based on the CR world, and the opening statement is cringey as fuck

>telling a 'knock-knock' joke to the Goddes of Knowledge
Fucking hell, Darin is love.

Ioun is gonna choose her champion? SCANLAN or PERCY????

>>54562926

Scanlan confirmed. Percy BTFO.

>>54562937
he looks PISSED

>>54562529
no problem :)

poor Darin looks like it's hard for him to stay in character with the occasional joke

>>54562926
Ioun would prefer Scanlan, but I think she'd be fine with Percy if the gnome turned it down.

I think Percy's fear/worry over his invention is why he wants to keep his secrets and/or discoveries of science he makes, for he knows both the best and worst case scenario of his inventions.

>>54562959

Good. That's what he gets for hating gods the entire game.

>>54562959
It was an awesome DM choice, the previous episode Percy was all about Ioun's books n shit and he got his hubris destroyed just now.

Scanlan also has had the Ioun stone in his possession the entire time and I could tell this was meant for him.

>>54562959
I think its because that was his only chance to get a god boon, no other gods care for him.

>>54562959
I think Taliesin is more pissed that he didn't get a chance to voice his concerns/worries to the god as Percy before she went and subject Scanlan to the challenge.

>>54562994
Taliesin looks suuuper pissed tho

>>54562937
I actually don't expect that, Mercer didn't fall for his BS last game

>>54563002

Fitting. Someone who has spurned gods often and loudly doesn't deserve a divine boon. Same goes for Keyleth.

>>54563031
The two of the group who spurned the gods the most are Percy and Keyleth, but of the group, Scanlan and Percy are the two that Ioun would want to become her champion. Scanlan due to the "history" of how Bards make a living (telling stories and weaving a tapestry through history), Percy for his lust for knowledge.

I'd love if the guy whose life's book they are looking for is Otiluke, and 'Incantation of Isolation' is just the Resilient Sphere spell

I wonder if this test is also for Percy. Scanlan "fails" the test but Percy catches something or ends up finding the book first.

>>54563099
that would cool, but i think it's some sort of banishment spell meant to defeat vecna

>>54563107
My guess is the test is actually for both; Scanlan to use his Bardic Knowledge to figure stuff out, Percy to start opening up with things he's keeping hidden from the group.

do you guys think Sam is actually a genius in real life? like if he focused on math instead of drama he could have solved planetary colonization

>>54563159
how can one man come up with so many songs on the spot?

I'm thinking either Ioun is the book and they can search for her or it's wherever she would hide herself in her recovery, so I guess her main quarters?

>>54563159
Yes

What's his name, yo?

as soon as marisha opened her mouth chat just ripped into her. As expected.

>Critical role shills have infested the board
How do you go from having a thread once in a blue moon to having one almost all day every day?
Shills, that's how.

>>54563207
Which chat? I only see the subs chat that only says good things about everything.

>>54563218
it's once a week for the episode you dumb nigger
also it's barely active so fuck off

i cant remember when sam looked this invested and was having this much fun

>>54563235
I've noticed a CR on the front page almost every day for a while now, you fuck off.

>>54563218
Why the fuck would they need to shill on 4chan of all places?

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>Marisha being quiet
>Sam taking up the entire episode
>Scanlan singing his heart out

the hell? how does the bard only know three languages?

>>54563260
that's because the campaign book is coming out, again shut up you dumb faggot

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>>54563295

>>54563300
Well a human wizard with sage background knows 4 languages naturally and knows the comprehend languages and tounges spell.

>>54563300
Not to mention he only learned Marquesian during the time skip when he moved there

this is one of the best puzzle episodes ever, kudos to matt on this one

This feels weird. I like Scanlan but he's essentially a sociopathic manipulator, whose trade is lies, deceit and misinformation. A deity of knowledge should despise him on principle.
Being a non-believer is trivial compared to being the antithesis of your cause.
But whichever way the wind blows, I suppose.

>>54563392
good point, but he has saved the world multiple times, and perhaps he's changed

>>54563295
Yeye

>>54563413
he's also the shit, and his powers lead to a much more interesting challenge

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>>54563115
i knew it

>>54563427
Percy also can't cast spells of fourth level or higher which you need to activate the book

>moradin "the allhammer" namedropped

please PLEASE let us meet moradin

>>54563496

That's a shit excuse, Matt made the challenge with Sam/Scanlan in mind. If he had made it for Percy/Taliesin, it wouldn't involving spellcasting.

e.g., the entire thing was railroaded from the start.

So the book itself is how you can seal a god, but it's easy to resist when it's a raw cast. You need multiple divine tremels to stick to the thing you want to seal up to increase the DC. At least two tremels would be good, three or four would be ideal.

And Matt did say that it's easier to stick a tremel on a wounded foe than one at full power.

Still, it gives them a secondary win-con versus Vecna: kill the SOB or seal him up in a similar prison like the Chained God.

A Core Anvil is what you use to make the divine tremels, and it's currently at the bottom of an ocean in a shipwreck.

>>54563525
sure, but it was still a great challenge

>>54563537
if vecna is killed why not just destroy his phylacteries?

GROG CAN FORGE NOW WTF?!?!? HOLY SHIEEET

>>54563560
Do they even know what or where they are?

>>54563560
I don't think they even know what a lich is, much less what a phylactery is.

Also, having Ioun forcefully give knowledge to Percy and Grog on how to make these things is a nice, gentle show of force of how strong a god is.

Also, we're going to have at least one crafting session where Percy and Grog try to make one of these things, which should lead to some nice roleplay.

>>54563616
didnt they already kill a lich? his phylactery was in grog's chest

KAS HYPE

kas confirmed

KAS

SWORD OF KAS

>>54563413
Oh he's changed: he's gone from just not telling the party about his real thoughts and emotions to outright manipulating them.

Being killed transformed him from a scoundrel to something more subtle and much, much darker, someone willing to use every edge and every opportunity to get his way, his "friends" included.

craven edge?

And Matt begins lore dumping Vecna's history based upon his campaign world, and we get some more history given to the players about Kas.

They also know about the Sword of Kas now, and where the Eye and Hand of Vecna came from.

KAS OR SOME SAY KASM.

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>>54563720
AAAAAAAAAAAHHHOOOOOO~

VECNA IS A GOD NOW

WELL, VECNA IS OFFICIALLY A GOD NOW

>Matt actually had a timer in the background for Vecna's ascension
Good. Maybe this will be a kick in the party's ass to get shit done.

>>54563750
What exactly happened? My internet cut out for a second

>>54563781
Ioun noticed that Vecna had finished his ritual of ascension

>>54563781
Ioun told them she felt Vecna ascend.

>>54563755
Well, from start of the ritual to the finish it's been maybe two days at most. They spent the first day getting their shit back together, starting to warn foes, and then immediately left for Sarenrae's realm. They visited and got boons from three gods in under a day, along with two minor essences of a god. That's a pretty good day in my opinion, but it's still a pretty narrow time table. Sounds like they have another day or two to get their shit together before Vecna gets a full grasp of his newfound godhood.

awww, is darin out the rest of the session?

Did she just give Scanlan her divine spark?

>>54563693
So...the boy Kas is canon in Matt's setting?

Please tell me Kas is still alive and he wants to kick his old boss's shit in.

>Darin flirts with Laura and it's precious
>Orion does it and ruins his life

>>54563834
Cause Darin isn't a dick about it

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>>54563834

>marisha busting out the fake tears

Just have to shit on a good ep, don't you?

>>54563834
Ageism

>>54563751
>>54563755
God's have been beaten by weaker heroes in this canon, right? Raven Queen being one of them.

>>54563816
She gave him a small portion of her divine essence, it's the same thing that Pelor gave to Vex to help them make a divine tremel. Or prime tremel, or whatever the hell they are; the chains to help banish a god.

>>54563855
at least her "deep" line wasn't incredibly awful
"Only big men talk big words that only fail on the battlefield"

>>54563883

Ohh, alright.

>>54563871
What do you mean by beaten? As far as I know, the Raven Queen ascended to godhood and... that's it. I don't remember any battles against her

>>54563904
Sorry, I mean the Raven Queen beat the last Death, who was a true god while she used to be mortal.

Maybe this is me, but I think the whole Ioun and Sprigg scene gave me a moment of thinking about The Doctor from Doctor Who, where they ask someone to go on an adventure with them.

>>54563814
Gone at the break. RIP best guest ever.

>>54563922
I think that we don't need to remark on every little thing that ever reminds us of Doctor Who without provocation.

>>54563904
>>54563921
According to Matt's lore, the Raven Queen was originally a mortal who ascended to godhood during the Calamity.

In his book, he describes it more like she literally stole the divinity from the former god of Death, which was one of the prime reasons why the rest of the gods made the Divine Gate, so that other mortals couldn't do that.

>>54563961
So if Vecna stole a form of godhood, Vox Machina can steal it from him as long as he's not put up a Divine Gate of his own.

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>>54563948

>>54563982
It's also possible that Vecna just created a new divine portfolio for himself instead of stealing one. Like he could be the new god of Secrets and Necromancy, which I don't think any current divine god in his setting has dominion over.

Though the Raven Queen, Pelor, and Bahamut might have issues with his domain over all things Necromancy, which gives reason for why they hate undead so much.

i dont really believe matt fudges rolls or anything but i have a feeling he will for vecna
i just dont see the team beating him as it stands and i doubt he'd let the tale of vox machina end on such a low note

So if Percy doesn't get an Ioun boon, is he just shit out of luck? I don't personally think he needs divine aid but this turn of events is really odd. Is Taelisen being punished for not being as useful as Sam, for being assumptive of the narrative or for making Percy primarily a humanist?

Why are they shilling for Ubisoft during the break?

>>54564120
He's not getting one because he's been an angsty shit about worshiping any god whatsoever

>>54564130
>Geek and Sundry
>shilling
Please, what do you expect?

>>54564120

Sure seems like it. Matt name-dropped the Allhammer, but then immediately turned around and gave Grog a minor boon necessary related to him to the RP the completion of the current story.

>>54564120
I think it's less about punishing Taliesin/Percy and more about Sam/Scanlan fitting the desire that Ioun would have.

To me, the biggest issue/fault is more-so that Matt didn't give Percy a chance to voice his concerns/worries/fears, which were the primary reason why he has such secrets, mainly about the guns.

>>54564120
book needed magic, he aint magical enough

>>54562844
Post it

>>54564172
I'm getting the vibe that matt doesn't want them to fuck off to other gods so he's just giving party members a purpose to preparing the battle so they dont feel left out

>>54564230
>hating on the scanlan singing challenge
eat my ass my dude

>>54564187
see
>>>>54563525

>>54564230
>one of the most boring ass first halves of the show in recent memory

You legitimately have shit taste and people should ignore anything you say from this point onwards.

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>>54564203
>>54564230
poor bait, it isn't humanly possible to have such poor taste, not without severe autism

>>54564120
As long as Keyleth doesn't get one I'm fine with whatever

>>54564200
weird, the thread isnt archived...

>>54564293
Post it

is there a rule on /tg/ for "quality of posts?"

if so, just report and ignore

>>54564163
>humanism
>angsty shit
Meh.
>>54564172
What about Kord?
>>54564186
Are you sure? DM holds the strings ultimately and Ioun selecting a liar over a researcher as the champion looks like author's intervention. It's not even like Percy is more powerful as a mortal authority since Scanlan became the Meatman off-screen.
Reminder that for better or worse, Mercer is a Monty-Hall DM whose primary interaction with the players is to make them feel more powerfull/heroic, so not doing so for a specific player for whatever reason is very unusual.

>>54564278
Dude, you KNOW she'll get something. Don't set yourself up for dissapointment in the face of the obvious.

>>54564365
>Kord

The party has no current reason to seek him out, and considering they're on a timetable they have every reason to try to wrap up the current quest (and end the campaign.)

>>54564398
Then why introduce the boons in the first place?
Yes they got their asses handed to them in 102, but if they tried again, worked harder and did their best they would've probably won without any of these boons.

Oh no, Marisha is talking

I know people like to shit on Liam on here but I honestly like Vex when he's trying to show one on one appreciation to the party

>>54564434

Because Matt's never run or played in a high-level campaign before and just figures "this is the thing you do." ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

>>54564491
>Vex

>>54564491
>Confusing Vax for Vex
>In the current year 2017
Seriously?

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One day hopefully in the final battle Vax will take full advantage of the Haste ability he has.

>Hasted Attack (Sneak Attack)
>Bonus Attack
>Hold Action (Sneak Attack)

This Half-Elf should be doing well over 100+ damage every round.

>>54564520
hopefully he gets FREEDOM OF MOVEMENT

also a keyleth percy scene END MY FUCKING LIFE

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>>54564507
>>54564508
God damn it

>the butthurt faithless crooning about not getting boons

Suck it.

>>54564536
>Keyleth and Percy scene
DAE ATHEISM? FUCK THE GODS LUL

Am I imagining this, or is "not-Marisha" Keyleth doing a 180 and is now valuing gods? Man she really wants a boon

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>be atheist
>make my campaign worlds without gods, think it isnt too edgy
>percy and keyleth is making this concept look worse

goddamnit guys, i'm tired of being compared to fedora tippers

>>54564600
she did a 180 a few episodes ago when she saw pike get a boon

VEWCNA
AWDAWDAPWDAWKD

Oh shit Vecna's on the scene

OH NO
OH MY
VECNA IS RIGHT HERE

VECNA FUCK VECNA RIGHT THERE

HOLY FUCK

>>54564499
You mean like, assume the players can't win so give them a solution that enables a fast victory?
Ye gods, kings and men, that puts everything in perspective. This campaign really does have the Mass Effect trilogy syndrome, for better or worse.

>>54564629
>>54564631
>>54564634
>>54564641
>>54564645
Fuck me, it's an illusion

> ppl act surprised when agnostic characters realize the gods are real and they're needed to save the world

Ya'll are so dumb sometimes.

>Trading witty banter as the BBEG with the players as Vecna

Enjoy the moment, few get the chance to do so.

>big bad does nothing but monologue

why do DMs do this

>>54564661
>>>>>Ya'll
It's y'all you fuck, short for "you all"

>>54564699
it's fun

>>54564648

Mercer has talked about it extensively. He's been giddy but lost after the dragon plot because he never expected them all to get this far or this high level.

>>54564699

Dude just became a god while the players were collecting boons.

>>54564699
Most BBEGs don't get a chance to do it. He's fuckin' welcome to monologue.

>>54564699
Because randomly disintegrating another party member would break the railroad.

>>54564661
Vex and Grog can be considered agnostic. Percy and Keyleth have very different reasons for being faithless. Whatever Scanlan is supposed to be, he's presented the absolute highest amount of ingratitude to divine power on the show after he was ressurected as Pike accurately pointed out. Even if Percy and Keyleth are atheists, at least they place value in something. Scanlan is a nihilist through and through, and he got his boon for mechanical reasons and as a reward for being played by Sam.

>>54564699
>I know the DMs put in 80% of the work to let me run around and do what I feel like doing, but why do they spend a 5 minute period talking serious shit to the pcs?

I take it you don't DM.

>vecna is an open borders globalist

>>54564705
Any explanation why the campaign wasn't done then?

>>54564774
>vecna is an open borders (((globalist)))

>>54564612
That's not comparable.

Your campaign world has no gods. Ttherefore atheism is logical and correct.

The Critical role campaign setting has gods. You pray for spells from them and can meet them face to face and talk to them.
In that campaign setting atheism is insanity.

>Grog is the first to call out that Vecna is scared of VM

I mean, he's right.

>>54564780
Because who the fuck doesn't actually want to play DnD to the end levels? You play all this time, and you just stop at that point?

>>54564780
Because he enjoys his Geek and Sundry paycheck

could laura and liam had made worse, most immersion breaking insults if they tried?

they're actors for fuck's sake

>>54564780

Because Mercer saw an opportunity to do something he hasn't done before (a high level campaign) and wasn't going to walk away from that.

>>54564808
LEL VECNA'S GOT A TINY PENIS HAHAHA

>>54564699
Because they're hacks.

"I only serve gods with big dicks"

Is Laura /thatgirl/?

>>54564793
It's been made clear that in this world "atheism" is used interchangeably with being faithless as opposed to rejecting the existence of gods.
Having faithless people in a godless world is far more miraculous than in a world where they exist but only help those who pray to them.

I know Travis is a intelligent man, but why hasn't he made an obvious effort to commune with Kord

>>54564802
Yeah, I'd stop when characters leave heroic and enter overman territory. Especially if you've already beaten both the Dungeons and the Dragons. Otherwise you're playing until you meet the Lady of Pain (or in this case Vecna) and then get gibbed despite all the previous heroics, or you beat the Lady of Pain (in this case Vecna) even though you really shouldn't.
>>54564813
Well the boons were still a bad idea. Let the party earn their final victory.

>>54564804
He can get it by starting a new campaign fair and square.

>>54564883
Because he's playing a low Int character. Travis is the one who is most consistent with his character out of the entire cast, and I'd prefer not to ruin that.

>>54564883
He wants to get on with things and as a player presumably knows that they don't have a lot of time. He might end up getting the Sword of Kas anyway, so no need for a boon.

>>54564883
If they start thinking about getting another boon, I get the feeling they might. Maybe they'll visit the Crucible and get some quick scope of combat (since I can't imagine a Kord trial that isn't just another arena bout). Or, like >>54564916 said, he'll get the mcguffin sword.

>>54564911
Travis better play a dvination wizard next campaign because we all know he can steamroll matts encounters if he has the versatility it allows.

>>54564903
There are rules for high level DnD. It might be cool, it might be shitty, but that's the goal of the game and the classes. To reach those ultimate levels, and get some crazy shit.

>>54564903

Totally agree. Matt has been teasing the next campaign for the past month or more, he's already more thinking & planning for it than he is for his own on-going game.

>>54564933
Fuck that, let him play a Bladesinger and just go nuts.

>>54564933
He's 100% going Blood Hunter

>>54564934
What would you say is the qualifier to get the crazy shit in a situation of scarcity, such as this?

i like that she's paranoid

He should be insighting the fuck out of her, for all he knows this could be a trick by Vecna.

>>54564365
>Mercer is a Monty-Hall DM whose primary interaction with the players is to make them feel more powerfull/heroic, so not doing so for a specific player for whatever reason is very unusual.

Matthew Mercer is contributing more to the downfall of the D&D community than anyone else in history. Not even Monte Cook, not even Lorraine Williams, not even Micheal Merals, not even Gary Gygax himself have done as much damage to D&D. Mercer has made the game palatable to the kind of person who spends his Friday nights playing Cards Against Humanity while slobbering microbrews all over his beard while his wife's son is sleeping in the next room. The kind of moron who thinks mirthful laughter is the end goal of everything, and fails to understand the potential that RPGs have as a fulfilling hobby. Instead, he shits on that creative potential by turning the entire game into a joke, refusing to take anything seriously and making gimmick characters, bringing along his fat girlfriend to make a shitty elf druid character that she hardly roleplays, screeching autistically whenever she rolls a natural 20 because that is the only aspect of the game that her tiny female brain can comprehend, taking copious pictures of the game and posting them to Snapchat and Instagram to show what a geek she is, before getting tired at 11 and tugging at her cuck boyfriend's shoulder so that they both leave and disrupt the immersion even further, because the game doesn't matter to these people at all. It is a mode of entertainment, nothing else. And by entertainment, I mean they consider it nothing more than a Netflix special that they can pause at any time, because it is meant entirely to pander to their enjoyment and make them laugh to cover up how empty their soulless lives are. This hobby used to be full of passionate people who cared about the game and weren't afraid to show it. Now the hobby is being diluted by hordes of casuals who couldn't give a fuck.

what is that sound? you guys hear that right?

>>54565013
Ah, I missed this pasta, anon.

>>54564365 (Me)
>>54565013
I'd just like everyone on this board to know I didn't ask for this pasta and take no responsibility for provoking it.

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>>54565013

>>54565013
>Gygax
>Wife's son
This made me laugh.

>>54565013 (You) (You)

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WHAT IS THAT BEEPING SOUND!?

>>54565065
...what?

>>54565076
do you seriously not hear that? seems like only a few people in chat can hear it too

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>>54564933
Eldritch Knight, Swashbuckler, Blood Hunter, or Wizard. I would love to see Travis try one of those.

I actually was hoping she wouldn't give him her essence, the paranoid self-preservation was really captivating

>>54565086
I don't hear any beeping on Twitch. Are you watching on Twitch or Alpha?

>>54564187
>full-caster bias
Fucking DROPPED

>>54565013
I love this pasta.

>>54565086
I think I can hear some really faint beeping on Alpha stream. I bet it's way too high-pitched for the 30 yo and older cast and crew to hear.

i so wanted Grood to respond with "...what? only one of you speak this time."

"Kord is not a giving god"
"Fuck you Travis, you guys need to stop going after all of these boons"

I think it's less that they need to convince Kord, and more that they need to literally fight him over it and earn his boon and the bean of divine essence.

>>54565268
i dont think you're getting the point

>>54565295
>they get a satchel of literal beans
Nah, I think I see what's happening

I can only hope that the ep ends on them running upto vecna.

Should have actually issued a challenge to Kord for his boon and power

>>54565380
>Grog must wrestle Kord for his boon

I'm sad that it ain't happening

>It's a bean with a dick!

>>54564830
Hmmm

I wish Grog would say this.
Kord, I have never prayed to you before. I have no tongue for it. No one, not even you, will remember if we were good men or bad. Why we fought, or why we died. All that matters is that two stood against many. That's what's important! Valor pleases you, Kord... so grant me one request. Grant me Strength! And if you do not listen, then the HELL'S with you!

>>54565502
But anon there's more than two of them and they're fighting one dude.

>>54565532
doubt it with how the last round went,

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>Grog will never meet and fight Kord

Well, we just got confirmation that Delilah is still alive, probably thanks to the Clone spell.

It's another clone, Matt isn't holding back :)

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I FUCKING KNEW IT

DAHLIA IS NOT DEAD

FIRST FIGHT WAS SIMULACRUM, SECOND WAS CLONE

>>54565628
>>54565629
>>54565631
It could be Clone, or she could be a Lich with a phylactery, or Vecna had some way to resurrect her

People actually watch and enjoy this shit. Mind blowing.

FFS Marisha strikes again.

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>>54564820
>>54564830

Let's be honest, Laura Bailey has every right to be unimpressed by small dicks considering who her husband is.

Seriously, guys. It's a second level spell called Nondetection, Pike should be able to cast it.

>>54565641
My guess is Clone, based on how her body is fully restored again, when the last one had the left eye missing for the Eye of Vecna.

>>54565659
She should just plane shift them now.

It's not as if they weren't going to rest fairly soon anyway.

Laura is really on a big dick mindset tonight

I quit after saundour but i watch every week lately just in case marisha dies, then i would be happy

>>54565695
i bet if any of them talked about big tits they'd be chastised by the chat

>>54565673
Nondetection is a third-level spell and is not on the Cleric's spell list
Also it can only target one creature per casting, so even if one of them could cast it, they'd have to use quite of few spell slots to do it on the whole party

"Giant swinging dicks"

Is Laura just always slutty?

>Using True Poly to fulfill all your secret fetishes

>>54565711
Just Bard things

Anyone think Vecna is just too strong for Vox Machina simply because they suck ass at planning and Vecna is a fucking God of schemes.

>>54565711
That's what high-level meme-bards are supposed to do

>>54565707
She and Travis must have so much fun.

>Ending with Scanlan casting True Polymorph to turn into an archangel and physically pleasure himself

... I'm surprised he'd not done it sooner.

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>>54565711
>not using your magical powers to fulfill your fetishes.
Geeze, are you gay or something?

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>>54565711
i would turn myself into a succubus

>>54565701
A woman needs a reasonably large cock for enjoyment you cuck, a man can find satisfaction in breasts of any size. Wanting big tits is the mark of a petty virgin.

>>54565715
I like how short-sighted they are; whenever Matt tells them that time is of the essence, they are concerned for 5 minutes then resume Deity Tourism thinking that it's no drawback

>>54565735
>not getting a Familiar
>not then using True Polymorph to turn your familiar into a succubus

>>54565715
Yeah, I don't see how this doesn't end in a TPK unless vecna really isn't as hot shit as he thinks he is
Grog is gonna be generally useless without mobility, the squishies can be disintegrated or power word killed, and they haven't become significantly more powerful since the last fight
maybe if they all get level 20 somehow they have a shot

>>54565715

vecna is going to job to them so it doesn't matter.

>>54565743
>Wanting big tits is the mark of a petty virgin.
pedo detected

>>54565715
>the series ends with Vecna killing half the party but some plot bullshit happens so he's defeated despite him being fully capable of eliminating the entire party
>living half of the party ressurrects the dead half because no one stays dead in Vox Machina
>even Vax,Tiberius and the rest of Draconia manage to get brought back from the dead

>>54565715
It'll be Raven Queen bullshit from Vax and power of love speech from Keyleth.

It'll be absolutely awful.

>>54565774
But what if Pike and Keyleth die and the party no longer has any access to True Resurrection?

if only Keyleth didn't have DMGF plot armor

>>54565774
I know it probably wont happen, but I wonder how Matt would handle the next campaign if Vecna was successful
Since it's set 20 years in the future on another continent, that provides a long period for Vecna to increase his power, and I doubt there's a band as capable as VM just waiting around to overthrow him in that period

>>54565797
He may make it so that they go back a few hundred years instead. Because having a lvl24 ArchLich on the material plane is just stupid.

Alright, that was a decent episode. Still, I'm now just waiting for the new campaign to start.

>>54565768
For the purposes of this thread let's stay on topic.
Does Laura Bailey have big tits? No.
Is Travis Willingham a pedophile for agressively boning that shit every day? No, because he is a real man.
Real men don't need big tits.
QED

>>54565813
>Real men don't need big tits.

pedo

detected

>>54565811
Luckily I think we're like 3 episodes left in this campaign max
Unfortunately that means probably 4 weeks after that before the campaign starts, what with all the one shots they plan on running in the interim

>>54565715
Let me spell it out for you:

Spell DC 24 on the save or suck spells.

Spell. DC. 24.

Literally only two of them have a decent shot of resisting: Pike and Keyleth. And even then those have to be spells that target Wisdom. If he targets Dex, Con, or god forbid, Int, they're all boned.

The ONLY advantage they have is if they do some ACTUAL preparation ahead of time and buff up the party prior to the fight (Freedom of Movement on the DPS, give Grog some source of flight or a Potion of Flying, enchant Percy's guns, HEROES' FEAST, etc.) and they know who to go after first (Delilah most likely, followed by the Death Knight before going after Vecna) and THEN they keep Scanlan alive, being the only person in the party who can Counterspell Vecna's stuff, they MIGHT have a shot.

But if it's a 3v7, with god Vecna, Delilah, and the Death Knight with them going in mostly half-assed (just Heroes Feast), they will almost definitely die.

Two high level spellcasters vs. a party of mostly martial classes, an inept Druid, one Cleric, and one Bard? They should vaporize them.

>>54565823
>being this insecure with your sexuality

>>54565828
Any official source on the one-shots?

>>54565832
>liking little girls

>>54565836
I know that they plan on doing a full battle royale between everyone in VM, but I don't know about any other plans

>>54565810
It'd probably be more like a level 30 God Lich at that point, and I'd have to imagine that if any person gets above level 11 he either forces them to join his undead army or he disintegrates them.

If VM fail, the gods will have to tear down the Divine Gate and pull him off the plane, which will just cause a whole new set of problems that the world will have to deal with.

i want the new campaign but i REALLY want them to start at level 10. fighting goblins and kobolds is boring as fuck to watch

>>54565840
>implying small tits = little girls

>>54565840
>being THIS insecure with your sexuality

>>54565843
I know Taliesin is planning a one shot, he's written about it on twitter, and I feel like Sam and Liam have talked about it on Talks Machina, in addition to the battle royale the other guy mentioned

They have a live show at some con in 4 weeks; I'm just praying they've wrapped up the story by then, I don't need the final episode of a 400 hour long series to be accompanied by a live tumblr audience

>>54565854
Laura actually has boobs, but they're small. Travis must be an ass man

>>54565851
I believe Matt has said they'd start at level 3. So... maybe orcs, bugbears, and owlbears instead of goblins and kobolds.

>>54565869
>being THIS much of a kiddie diddler

>>54565884
Tier 2 D&D is best D&D. Right choice for once.

>260 replies
>31 users
>15 users was when it as less than 60 posts
Really makes you think.
Yeah surely there are no shills here
4chan needs an average number of posts per user metric.

>>54565830
Mercer allows nat20s to save.

Vecna must have 30 INT or something though, and that was pre-ascension.

Level 20 lich, so +6 proficiency. 8 base. The extra +10 would mean his INT modifier is a +10, so 30 INT. Granted, Mercer could have just bumped it with stuff like "gains +1 to save DCs of spells and such", but either way it's disgustingly high.

>>54565902
you need to drink bleach

>>54565830
Their chance is in fighting smarter, not harder. If they find an RP reason to win (beyond lame boons) it could be a repeat of Kevdak. If they go in as they are it'll be a repeat of Raishan where Vecna will just not kill them hard enough and they'll win by virtue of not losing.

>>54565884
Halfway through level 2. They get to know their characters, then get their subclass at level 3.

>>54565872
You know it's going to happen; just too many storyline/hype threads going into it that Matt or the G&S crew can't ignore:

> 50th anniversary of Gencon
> Largest live audience to date
> The most successful streamed campaign to date
> Potential finale of the show

I really, really, REALLY hope that the finale is the week BEFORE Gencon, so that the Battle Royale is the live stage thing, but with their pacing, the final fight is going to occur at Gencon.

>>54565921
>50th anniversary of Gencon

wut

>>54565918
Several classes pick archetypes at level 1

>>54565910
>Getting this upset at being called out
Maybe if you weren't such a piece of shit you could have your own group instead of watching other people have fun playing a social game.

>>54565882
Pretty sure Travis prioritises the mouth and throat, for good reason, and it helps that Laura REALLY enjoys big dick.

>>54565933
are that delusional to think that someone cant watch a show once a week on a Thursday night and then play in a game on the weekend? No, I think you're just too stupid.

>>54565921
Depends on when they do the fight. Unless they TPK (highly likely though) there's likely to be a session after that of them just RPing what all the characters get up to after saving the world (again)

>>54565909
I assumed that his INT was 30 when Matt gave us the Spell Save DC (Keyleth barely resisted the Hold Creature spell he cast when their fight started, which is how we got the hard number).

My hope is that Matt actually lowers the DC by 1 or 2, caused by the ascension, but instead gives Vecna a "auto-succeed" on certain spells to reflect his godly power, tracking off the same counter as his Legendary Resists number.

>>54565933
What's funny is after you posted the number of posters didn't increase. What's worse, the fool who watches a show, or the fool who takes the time to berate him?

>>54565930
This year's Gencon, where they are hosting the live game at, is the 50th anniversary of Gencon.

Yes, the very first Gencon was way back in 1967, when it was originally just guys doing wargame scenarios.

>>54565985
do you think we're stupid? do you think we don't know you're the same or one of the same shitposters? the number of posters has not increased. you laugh and try to troll us but who is more pathetic, the people watching a show and conversing about it or the lonely faggot wasting his time trying to upset people actually doing something they like?

>>54565985
It's not one of their worst, it's just a lower point because this isn't like the Vestige gathering, where each one added in a fight or two. Instead it's just talking to the gods and seeing if you can convince them to give over a boon or a divine seed, with Vecna taunting them the entire way.

>>54566008
>>54566009
Stop feeding the troll

>>54566009
I forget. Who gave them the idea to collect divine boons in the first place?

>>54565966
>>54565985
>>54566017
>post count STILL hasn't increased
really makes you think.
I've only made 4 posts in this thread, and 2 of them was back when it was under 60 posts and 15 unique posters.

So Pike and Scanlan and Keyleth can come back a billion and one times, but Grog critically fails his resurection check and he's gone for good? Wtf?
Did Travis just get tired of playing the dumb one?

>>54563218
>>54563260
>>54566047
>>54565985
>>54565933
>>54565902
How many (You) was that?

so thread vote

is craven edge the sword of kas?

is the death knight Briarwood or Kas?

>>54565743
>A woman needs a reasonably large cock for enjoyment

If that were true, every man would have evolved a large cock.

>>54566098
Most of human history and civilization has developed to enable cucks with tiny cocks the ((right)) to procreate. Fortunately a large cock and talent are not mutually exclusive which is why Travis has sexual intercourse with his wife but you do not.

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>>54566125

8/10

>>54563834
>Darin does it once or twice.
>Orion does it for weeks on end and even after she made it clear that she was getting creeped out by him (you can tell in his later episodes when he gets grabby, they go on break and afterwards everything is super tense and weird.)

>>54566088
No
Briarwood

>>54566167
HALF
CHUB

>>54566167
Thought that was about Marisha though?

>>54566192
Probably both of them, actually

>>54566088
Death Knight better be Kas.

>VM middle of fighting him and Vecna
>Kas decides to dip mid fight to let the party and Vecna dukes it out
>Party is about to die
>Kas comes back to cut kick Vecna's shit in because he's gone full Starscream

>>54566074
What the fuck are you talking about?

>>54566227
It's b8 m8

>>54566211
How much awareness can an Omega male lack to want to step in on Travis' turf, though? Wanting Mercer's sloppy seconds is one thing but this is just absurd. Far greater people than Orion Acaba have succumbed to cancer and life just isn't fair it seems.

>>54566257
Yeah, he was definitely pretty out of touch with reality at that point. Drugs and/or chemo do that to people. Not an excuse though anyway. I bet he was being a dick to people in the home game too, but only borderline one.

>>54566257
>>54566167
>>54563834

Also, Darin is an Alpha male as well as Travis and it is disrespectful for Alphas to not at least challenge each other for the female. It's a simple courtesy ritual, and between men it's clear Darin as an elder wouldn't push the issue further than dictated in the old truths of masculinity.

So Matt said if the comic about the twins and Keyleth does well then we'd get comics of the pregame adventures.

How much shade will be tossed at the great Tiberius ?

>>54566293
...i think you guys are looking too deep into this and are dipping into pseudo sociology

>>54566316
>comic about the twins and Keyleth
What now?

>>54566316
Not just about half-elves, it's gonna be about their backstories and them meeting each other somewhere around Stillbend.

>>54566341
Comic Con they announced Colville is writing a comic about how the twins and Keyleth met. Today's episode Matt was talking about if it does well, there will be more about how Vox Machina came together and then eventually all the pre-stream adventures

>>54566356
By "their" I meant all of VM

>>54566356
My bad the preview they showed there only showed off the half-elves and I just misremembered that shit.

>>54566316
Good question. Did Orion ever succeed on copyrighting Tiberius? Because the comic can't be monetised if he did, or retcon Tiberius even existing.

Let's be real though, K'Varn fight onward you could just retcon that it was Keyleth who used her "Tree Stride" to get them to safety and we would be none the wiser as to his effect or lack thereoff on the story of VM.

>>54566410
i sincerely doubt he can even copyright tiberius in the first place

>>54566573
Technically he created the character

>>54566573
Him getting kicked off the show was partially caused by his throwing a hissy fit and complaining about the intellectual property that is Tiberius.

>>54566410
Well I think Orion claims to still watch CR and I'm sure he'd want more Tiberius shit to stroke is own ego and I think he talked to Matt about on how he wanted Tiberius to leave. So I think him showing up might be possible but we'll see.

>>54566662
tiberius is dead though

>>54566683
Comic takes place pre-stream

Orion joining the game as a lvl17 Sorcerer with Wish would some great caster fuckery. Wish is a Bane to most DMs and Mercer might actually have to be crafty when making encounters.
>>54566683
Any 17th lvl shmuck can use True Res to being anything back to life.

>>54566700
which is funny that they didnt kek

>>54566715
Didn't all of Draconia die also? I mean that's kinda fucked up they'll expend resources to revive themselves constantly but when an entire nation gets wiped out they're just kinda bummed.

this is a good time to ask, let's say i wanted to write a book about my DnD character, could anyone at my table or the DM sue me?

if someone at my table, whether player or DM, wanted to you my character in a book they were writing could i sue them?

this is a very important question to me right now

>>54566785
be a dick in real world, don't get res in fantasy world

>>54566804
>could anyone at my table or the DM sue me
You can sue literally anyone for literally anything.

>>54566819
okay obviously, but who would stand a better chance at succeeding?

>>54566804
>>54566830
Just try getting written consent from them.

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>>54562324
Thoughts?

>>54566804
Not unless you or they managed to somehow copyright... well, anything.
You'd have to talk with someone who knows legal shit for certain but if you decide to write a novel using your game groups chars they have no monetary claim to it. However, you probably don't have claim to the setting or characters either until you've actually written and published something.

Either way, don't write novels of your DnD campaigns because we don't want to read fucking novels when a greentext will suffice.

>>54566025
Vax. He said something about "Vecna's about to become a god, and we've already got the Raven Queen in our corner, we should go talk to some others like Sarenrae for help".

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>>54566862
Thoughts?

>>54566878
I don't know what I'm looking at.

>>54566845
alright, so basically i want to write a book about my character, seems fine enough as i made him. the problem is that another player wants to use my character in a book he's writing. this has caused a lot of arguments as that's theft in my eyes. i can prove he's my character so could i sue him?

>>54566878
what is this mess

>>54566888
Yes.

>>54566867
>>54566888
sorry meant to respond to you

i should clarify neither of us are writing about the campaign as it was princes of the apocalypse

>>54566804
>>54566830
>>54566888
>>54566899
DO NOT TAKE LEGAL ADVICE FROM FUCKING 4CHAN

>>54566873
So they basically already accepted that Vecna WOULD become a god, and had no intention of stopping his ascension. The plan is to match his power with divine power post ascension.
They really done goofed this time. Divine classes get divine powers, the rest get their own. They stand a better fucking chance with having their own strengths and versatility than trying to multiclass everyone into Paladin, or did they learn nothing from the Kevdak arc?

>No. No. I've learned that my strength is with my friends and my friends have their own strengths. To each their own. I don't want you all handicapping yourselves for me."

Grog Strongjaw, Test of Pride

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>>54566878
Anon, this is not relevant to the thread >>54566862 this is though.

I like Condemner and Wraps of Dyamak also Cabal's Ruin is not quite as OP as I thought it was. Originally I thought it could absorb spells whenever you wanted, not per rest. I was hoping Mythcarver had a non-Cutting Words feature as it requires attunement by a Bard and not all Bards have Cutting Words.

Imagine how different CritRole would be if Travis started as a Wizard, Marisha as a Barb and Orion didn't creep everyone the fuck out. It might've been glorious.

>>54566974
And this is why I'm sad that Grog doesn't have his own personal baby maker.

>>54567096
Imagine if Travis wasn't stuck with a 6 Int. character and could actually contribute actual battle plans and strategy to the group.

If he was a Wizard, or an EK, or fuck, even a Blood Hunter, I'd be much more confident in the hopes of them winning the fight against Vecna.

>>54567106
You know that if he somehow survives the encounter vs. Vecna, he's going to have a bunch of ladies wanting to, "test the might of Strongjaw, Godslayer."

It's already canon that he's got the largest package of the group.

>>54567130
But the upsetting thing is that he doesn't ALREADY have a dedicated waifu. Don't you see? Travis draws his true power from his superheterosexual marriage that we're all rightfully envious of and wish that Grog too could draw some real power instead of relying on the "family" that treats him like a child.

>>54567096
>Orion minmxing goals and Travis not being retarded could actually lead to VM kicking Vecna's shit in
That would have been an interesting timeline.

>>54567228
Orion wasn't so much a minmaxer as a self-insert player. When it became increasingly obvious his character was supposed to feel threatened by anything, he threw a fit and got kicked.
I don't believe for a second he would dare to let Tiberius face Vecna. He would rather live 5 minutes before extinction than 5 seconds to prevent it.

>>54567195
>Grog won't end up with Pike
>Grog won't end up with Vex
>Grog will only have nameless NPCs

Grog deserves better than this

>>54567276
I feel like he'd only want to fight Vecna if it was on VM's terms. I'd imagine he'd leave during the fight if it looks like it's going South.

>>54567283
Grog's own opinion is that he shouldn't (paraphrasing here), "limit his physical gifts to one lady, but offers them to all the ladyfolk of the land, to sample at their pleasure."

>>54567311
Ok, well let's recap the fights VM have had since Tiberius left.
>Intended to fight the Briarwoods in the castle, but were unsuccesful of preventing them from reaching the Ziggurat. Tiberius leaves the moment the sphere comes into play because Orion metagames that it's a Sphere of Annihilation and is too scared to come near.
>Sunken Tomb, another unexpected Beholder in its lair. Tiberius runs away immediately when Orion realises they're in its lair, trying to get the fish people to act as cannon fodder instead.
>The Sphinx. Instead of contributing to the riddle Orion expects Tiberius to just fireball it to death even though that would constitute a mission failure, just to prove his power.
>Kevdak. Aborts the plan the moment Scanlan uses his thunderwave due to metagamed knowledge of the incident, not allowing the plan to get back on track as it did.
>Umbrassyl fight, failing to kill the dragon during the trap part refuses to go into the lair of the Dragon.
>Archfey fight, refuses to enter the tree and probably ends up setting it on fire, along with the bow inside.

When VM makes plans, eventually fighting on the enemy's home advantage IS the terms they make. They will inevitably do the same with Vecna, and that's exactly how the most challenging fight in the campaign should theoretically occur. The question is how can they make it work in a way that isn't cheapened with Deus Ex Machine/McGuffin or having Vecna job to them, not how can they avoid the difficulty entirely.

>>54567353
Then Grog should get a harem of name NPCs that have some of a personality. I just feel bad that everyone has their true love or family member while Vox Machina is all Grog really has and they treat him like a child.

>>54567440
Well, the best ways they can beat up Vecna is by going into the fight with as many non-Concentration buffs on the party as they can:

> Freedom of Movement on the martial DPS and support, at the very least Vax, Vex, and Scanlan.
> Heroes Feast the night before, probably in Scanlan's mansion.
> Focus fire one target at a time, don't split up the damage sources.
> If you can temporarily enchant Percy's guns so they can affect Vecna, do it.
> Protect Scanalan, he's the only one who can Counterspell Vecna's big spells and the save or suck stuff.
> Keep Pike alive to provide healing and potentially burn Vecna's own Counterspells.

The most important thing is this:

> Keyleth has to become another support character during the fight, and look to use her staff charges during the fight when the opportunity is available.

This means stuff like Lesser or Greater Restoration when people get paralyzed or mind controlled, Healing Word should be read nearly every round to top people up or get them moving again if they go down via damage and not by something like Power Word Kill, Finger of Death, or Disintegrate.

But this means Marisha would have to actually play her character to its fullest potential, and she just doesn't know how to do that.

>>54565661
I didn't know this turned me on so much. Life goal: have a cute gf who tells the world I'm a god with a big dick.

>implying it'll happen
;_;

>>54567717
I've screencapped you so that when the big fight comes around I can play "How unprepared are vox machina" bingo.

For the moment, let's assume everyone in the party is level 18 when they go into the fight against Vecna just to keep the options simple (I know they won't be; some will be level 20, others will be 19, and I think Pike will be the only level 18 in the fight).

Level 18 Moon Druid:
24 Prepared spells.

Level 18 War Cleric:
23 Prepared spells, 10 Domain spells.

Level 18 Lore Bard:
24 known spells

Level 13 Assassin Rouge/5 Vengeance Paladin:
Four 1st level, Two 2nd level slots.

Level 14 Ranger/4 Assassin Rogue:
8 spells known, Four 1st level, Three 2nd and 3rd level, One 4th level spell slots

Level 15 Berserker Barbarian/Battlemaster Fighter 3:
3 maneuvers, lots of Rage

Level 18 Gunslinger Fighter:
Lots of trickshot uses and two Action Surges, along with Hex

Pre-battle buffs:

Heroes Feast the night before. Between the Cleric and the Druid, they blow their 4th level slots and a 5th level slot from the Druid on Freedom of Movement on the party.

Bard looks to use a mix of Bardic Inspiration and Cutting Words along with his higher level spell slots on Counterspelling the large stuff from Vecna (Finger of Death, Power Word Kill, Disintegrate, etc.), uses the lower level stuff to keep everyone topped up via Healing Word.

Cleric uses her spells on Cure Wounds, Mass Cure Wounds, Heal, etc., while helping to beat up Delilah if she's on the ground. Otherwise Cleric stays in back and is on defensive to protect Bard and Druid.

Druid looks to provide more healing or use some save or suck spells, or the spells in the staff, to try and burn through Legendary Resists.

Grog, Percy, and the Twins blow up Delilah, looking to take her out quickly before she can overwhelm the combined focus firing that the Bard will draw upon himself. After that, you kill or disable the Death Knight, ideally by removing his weapon and then subjecting him to Hold Person or Banishment.

After that, you blow EVERYTHING on Vecna, overwhelm him with action economy.

>>54567910
My guess is that Vecna and Delilah will look to take out Scanlan first, being the only arcane caster in the group who can potentially thwart their arcane spells. The Death Knight will probably try to Banishment Grog once again like in the last fight, and then look to bop the support/squishies.

My guess is Delilah will shift her focus off Scanlan and go for Pike and Keyleth once she sees the amount of protection they're giving him and look to use save or suck spells on them, or do something like Finger of Death, Power Word Kill, or Disintegrate on them. Meanwhile, Vecna's hovering in the air, teleporting around and firing off Cone of Cold with Legendary Actions, and using his turn to fire off his own large spells like Power Word Kill, Finger of Death, Disintegrate, and trying to Dispel the buffs on the party (a thing not normally allowed, but Matt's done it before against the party).

It's probably only when things start turning south on Vecna that he's going to start tapping into his divine powers and look to auto-succeed on some of his spells, or recharge the higher level spell slots burned earlier in the fight. At that point it's going to be a race to see if action economy and some lucky rolls let VM over-ride the lich god.

My personal hope is that he goes to leave the fight via Gate, thinking that at least him attaining godhood is enough and that leaving the Mortal Plane means the other gods can't deal with him, only for a weak and barely alive Scanlan to blow his 9th level Counterspell - a thing he'd been saving the entire fight - with something to the effect of him mooning the lich god and farting so loud it disrupts his Gate spell.

>>54567754
Not with that attitude anon

>>54567910
Its doable against a ~lvl30 wiz and his 2 (but probably more) buffed up companions but if Matt even tries to win the fight its all over.
Vecna has a modified "Hold monster/person" called "Hold Creature" that works on any creature alive or unliving.
His spells are DC 25 at a minimum.
He should have 3 spellslots for every level, or at least 2 for 9th lvl because he is ~10lvls above a regular wizard.
He should have the "wish" spell which gives him infinite resources to fuel things like 'clone' 'create dead' 'symbol' 'glyph of warding' etc. So he can just have spent the last 2 days booby trapping the place into hell and having glyphs rigged to summon like 8+ CR5 Balguras.
If Matt really wants to kill them just place glyphs everywhere with the "Hypnotic Pattern" , "Bestow Curse" and "Hold Person" then even Delilah and the Death Knight can take VM on and win.

I can only assume that Matt is going to pull his punch with preparation because if he didn't it would just be game over.

>>54568043
Personally I think they're going to get an airlift into the base of Vecna and do a sort of magical HALO drop into the throne room of Vecna.

You can make the siege/approach on the ground terrible, but even Vecna can't do glyphs and trap wards in the air without making his own floating terrain, which he can do, but would he have been able to do that in maybe 2-3 days of post godhood preparation, when you're busy getting ready to siege Vasselheim with a horde of undead?

It would be glorious if VM went up against a LvL20 lore wizard in the Battleroyale.
>LvL9 Hold Person, DexSave, DC 21
>No you can't keep making DexSaves because incapacitation means you automatically fail.
>10 rounds of Paralyzed opponents

>>54563002
In Dawn War pantheon Moradin is a Forge god first. Might be a chance for Percy

>>54568129
Vax out speeds the Wizard and does this >>54564520.
Also counterspell.

>>54562324
Quests died for this.