mtg Legacy B&R

Grixis is like 20% of the metagame now, more than Miracles ever was. I can honestly see Top being unbanned if anything. But it's most likely that nothing will change for a long time in Legacy B&Rs now.

Meanwhile, my Miracles list has now become UW Stoneblade so it's all good. Back to Basics mainboard wins games.

>>54541847
No one cares about this dead ass format, nothing will be banned because no one plays it

>>54542858
>This poster's face when he finds out that Team Constructed is coming to the Pro Tour and Legacy will infact be shown at Pro Tours

>>54542898
I already knew that. Fucking Memedern is there too so its really not helping your argument. Memedern and Legameme are what the fat neckbeards watch while everyone else tunes out.

>>54542898
Also this is a one time event. Legameme and Memedern will only be there for the 25th anniversary and then subsequently taken off. This is the only pro tour for those formats.

>>54542941
They're considerably tougher to play formats than Standard and as such are more rewarding to play honestly. Miracles v Lands was a surprising amount of fun when someone didn't get a hard lock early on. Plenty of new cards get tried out in Modern and Legacy so it'll be great seeing Wizards be able to showcase that without pushing Standard to one side.

>>54541847
unban survival see what happens

>>54542941
kill yourself

>>54542966
No, lets delve into the actual playstyle of these formats.
Pros
>Get to use old cards a lot of which are nostalgic for many
>Complex card interactions
>Up front cost and then you dont need to put more money in
>You can play and master a deck you like
Now lets get into the cons because theres some serious cons that make both Legacy and Modern not suitable for tournament play. First of all you have the illusion of choice, theres not actually a lot of cards you can play and a lot of the decks just end up playing the same cards. Brainstorm, Ponder, Deathrite, Delver, Lightning Bolt, Path/Swords etc., theres very little actual diversity in either formats so the coolness of being able to use any card or most any card from Magics history quickly fades away when you realize you actually cant because the card pool is so stagnant. The decks themselves are stagnant, you can buy in and play a deck forever but it gets boring, I could play Legacy UR Delver but I got bored of it because its the same matchups, Delver vs Storm Delver Sneak and Show Delver vs Lands, these matchups havent changed and it gets boring going up against the same decks over and over. Now for the real bad because theres some actual stuff that makes both formats bad for tournament play, the games themselves are short and high variance. You have a lot of decks that are trying to kill you turn 2, turn 3 and its hard to consistenly answer those strategies so the fast strategies are incentivized because they pick up free wins. This goes back to illusion of choice where we have to play a stagnant pool of spells and cheap interaction like Force, Brainstorm, Wasteland but even then you have games where you had a couple decisions and you won or you lost based on two decisions and thats not really a skill tester compared to formats like Draft that go long and have much more interaction.

By that same token those fast decks just outright lose to certain sideboard cards which also makes for boring "did he draw it?" gameplay. The sideboard cards are so efficient and shutting down certain strategies that if they resolve the game can be functionally over by turn 2 and thats just not very fun or interesting to watch.
Theres gonna be a lot of salty neckbeards ripping this comment to shreds but everything ive said here is true and its why Modern and Legacy are not good formats. Draft and Standard are just better skill testers, Good draft formats especially.

>>54542941
Lol, how are you enjoying playing the standard of many bannings? KYS

>>54544067
I dont play Standard, I play Draft pretty much exclusively. And ironically Standard was shit for the exact same reason Legacy and Modern are, a highly stagnant pool of cards (mostly Kaladesh), games with 2-3 decisions, and boring stale gameplay because its the same two decks

>>54543232
Your "illusion of choice" argument doesn't hold up when you bring in false data about how long games last.

>>54545040
Theres no actual data about how fast decks kill, theres only win percentages. Regardless of if a deck can survive and win late game that doesnt change the speed of the decks trying to kill you turns 2-4. Storm, Sneak and Show, Reanimator, Turbo Depths, Burn, these decks are all trying to kill you extremely quickly in different ways. Yeah you can grind out wins and stop them, but you can do the same for Affinity in Modern which tries to turn 3-4 you, Infect which used to be able to turn 2 you more realistically turn 3 unblockable or Flying. Just because you can stop strategies doesnt mean you always do and honestly the best strategy is not to try to grind the game out but just to race and hopefully be faster

Why the fuck would Deathrite Shaman get banned?

It's a goddamn creature you losers. Maybe bring something other than Reanimator.

There's about a million ways to kill the thing too if you're not a combo deck.

It's a goodstuff card, that's all.

>>54546484
It is a goodstuff card, but it is also the best creature ever printed, so I don't think you can dismiss its powerlevel easily.

File: 1482420100166.jpg (16KB, 320x240px) Image search: [Google]

16KB, 320x240px

>>54546484
>Why the fuck would Deathrite Shaman get banned?
THIS. its not unbeatable. it's a dork. it dies to everything and if you're forcing your opponent on 'protect the queen' to a deathrite shaman you've just about won the game anyhow.

i also don't think top should have been banned. shitty miracles players were permanent drawbracket which made for retarded 50 minute 1-0-0 mirror matches being a thing at every major event which led to wizurdz having to 'take a look at' top. shit players couldn't use the card efficiently and we ALL paid the price.

>>54541847
Gitaxian Probe banned. Calling it now.

File: 1485906582564.jpg (72KB, 720x720px) Image search: [Google]

72KB, 720x720px

>>54545040

Show me your fucking viable brews for Modern and Legacy then. Oh wait, you have none.

>>54547160

i just watched somebody play a vial smasher the fierce deck in legacy, it was cool, i would describe it as "viable"

not sure it qualifies as a brew though since most of the deck was your typical grixis young pyromancer deck, but the deck had thunderous wrath dealing 11 damage which was quite spicy

>>54547076
No Top should have been banned. Miracles was far and away the best deck in the format. Autistic players who took a minute for a single top spin were fucking abysmal to play against and they were a lot more common then you'd think.

was there any downside to just banning counterbalance or terminus instead of top

>>54547454
Yes, that Top would still be legal and helping shitty players make tournaments miserable for people with brain cells.

>>54547454
Top is just an autist attracting card. It attracts the people who feel the need to min max the fuck out of every situation, if they have no use for their mana they are always going to spin it end step or upkeep and it gets irritating especially when they win game 1 and try to cheese a win off you. Control already goes to time enough without Top, with Top it allows cheaters to cheat wins out by just topping constantly after game 1 if they win.

>>54547384
Even worse are the players who top even though it makes no difference. Especially the ones who pays 1, tops, looks at their cards, thinks for a bit, puts the cards back, think, pays 1, looks at the cards again, and puts them back.

>>54546484
>mandatory 4 of planeswalker in every deck that's black or green

Boring as fuck design

>>54547160
There are a million viable decks in both formats, who the fuck needs brews? Plus, Grixis DS is the best deck in modern right now and you don't have to go that far into the past before people would call it a brew.

Also, if you're calling the choices in nonrotating formats illusionary compared to draft then you either aren't paying attention to or understanding your games

>>54543232
I've been playing Vintage storm for a decade if not a little more.

I still goldfish it a few times every single day and am not bored or tired of it.

I see some of your points working for current Legacy meta, but that's entirely fault of wizards. Printing of "broken" creatures and heavily concentrating the game to be "Creatures: The Tappening", lowered the number of viable Legacy decks greatly from what it used to be.

Another thing is that interaction =/= skill. Interaction can be much more entertaining to both those who watch and play, but it doesn't mean it must be complicated. Correct decision making is the skill.

Vintage is much more skill requiring than any other format, purely because of how many decisions you have to account for before even putting a land into play, but it doesn't matter because format is dead, because of stupid print policies of WotC.

Drafts skill is choosing right cards from packs. not for casting an overpriced removal spell on a creature, when your opponent is tapped out. That is not skillful, it's basic knowledge.

>What should be banned
Thoughtseize
Tron Lands

>What will be banned
Nothing

>>54547284
Every week te plays the same she'll but switches out 4-8 cards

The vial smasher deck did look pretty sweet especially when he topdecked the miracle time walk

>>54550829
>Vintage is much more skill requiring than any other format, purely because of how many decisions you have to account for before even putting a land into play
From a game design standpoint vintage has by far the highest variance of any constructed format due to the nature of the restricted list. I'm sorry, but higher variance means that the skill required is lower than in formats where you can play 4-ofs.
It's a super fun format, but people that say it's the most skill intensive format are just wrong.

>>54547160
Show me the viable Standard brews.

>Oh wait Standard has been a complete shitfest for the last year

>>54551435
Vintage also has the by far best card selection out of any format with all of its tutors and broken card draw. I haven't run the numbers, but I assume it does even out the variance a fair bit, if not mitigate it completely.

>>54551435
The point is the card pool.

When you have to account to possible counters/hate your opponent has, before even making a play in advance, it requires much more skill in Vintage to do so than in other formats, besides the fact that some cards on their own require a lot of thinking-through before playing them, especially those that can tutor you things.

There's a book about Gush alone, you do know that, right?

Finally, restricted list doesn't screw with variance of cards much, because of tutors and a lot of restricted cards doing practically same thing, like moxes, draw 7's, etc.

Finally, you must account for variance of cards when making plays as well. It is much easier to just follow same plan when you have plenty of 4 offs, than to make plays accounting for singletons.

Every great player that has made a name/career out of Magic says that Vintage takes most skill and tolls you mentally the most (to play that is, deck building is a whole different field).

File: IMG_20170107_154327.jpg (3MB, 4048x3036px) Image search: [Google]

3MB, 4048x3036px

>>54547160
>Niggerfaggot doesnt know bout memes

>>54541953
>Kikes at the coast
>Ever admitting they fucked up
Hahaha.
THey'll ban a grixis card that isn't delver.
We memedern nao.

>>54552472
Worth pointing out that book is for 'Gush' the deck, not 'Gush' the card.

>>54553101
ah man its the tooth , purposely scattered dice guy , been seeing you post picture of decks for like 2 years now

>>54542941
Stfu poor noob

>>54541847

Top was banned for encouraging slow play right before Wizards wanted to put Legacy on the Pro Tour. Nothing else encourages that kind of slow play... except Brainstorm, but even then it isn't "consistent unless you're looking at Jace the Wallet Sculptor.

/tg/, some sideboard options for reanimator deck against lands?

>>54541847

What they really should ban from legacy is the real dual lands. They're 90% of the cost of the format.

>>54557827
Pithing needle

>>54557827
Your choice of artifact destruction for opposing needle/sphere effects.

>>54557827
And 7 Hail Yawmoths

>>54558316
That would send all the wrong signals. That would send the signal that they care about the sustainability of the format and they're force-feeding the current player base a bitter pill to ensure that membership will exist in five years.

There is zero chance of that happening because it would be the right thing to do short of killing the Reserve List.

>>54558635
>Survival
>By basically genociding manabases
If they did care they'd reprint duals.
They don't care.

Go back to memedern.

>>54558696
If they destroy our lands, we win.

>>54555118
I've read the book and it's both for card and for decks based on using the card as an engine.

The card itself requires a lot of decisions to be made to be played at full potential and proper timing.

>>54558316
>I'm too poor to afford duals and too stupid to use fakes so just make the format really shitty!

fuck off