Potential "That Guy" joining us tonight, how to be prepared?

>>54539399
Talk to your other players about the new guy and go from there

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>>54539399
> Player: "He is the kind of player that wants to kill everyone in the party. Ha"
> ask if he's That Guy
> am told "He's a fun guy". Also that he's killed his entire party before in a 2 year long campaign.
"A fun guy"

>>54539399
> ask if he's That Guy
> am told "He's a fun guy"
Well, that settles that.

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>>54539399
>CE
>Paladin
I fucking hate this people.
It's like they enjoy taking a shit on all that is Paladin

>>54539516
I'm going to sound aspie af, but i'm new to these people and ttrpg as a whole. They all know him better than I, after all.
Would it be best to just ask the players like 'this dude sounds like a that guy are you down with the clown on this or naw?'

>>54539532
Apparently not only that, but that party was none the wiser "until the DM slipped up and got chatty"
I asked for clarification, but... Apparently the party was not aware they were dead.("that's how the story goes")
Were they mad? I asked. Hoping against hope that it was orchestrated as part of a plot or something...
> "Naw, it was more of a mind bomb moment"

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>>54539703
>"a mind bomb moment"
What does that even MEAN? How did they not know they were dead?

>>54539399

Sounds fucking shitty to me, friendo.

>>54539399
Honestly I wouldn't let him come. Who the hell wants to play with a guy who murders his own party? Also, evil characters really only work in all evil parties. I would never let a pc be evil if that wasn't the theme of the campaign.

>>54539703
Without being aggressive just ask your players about the guy

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>>54539703
>"Apparently the party was not aware they were dead"
Were they undead or something, or in the afterlife?

>>54539703
Update
like a second after i pressed send, he affirmed he has told the other players, that there have been times where he has been invited but was unable to stick around due to work.
He's a truck driver. Be far from it for me to judge or stereotype, but....

>>54539722
>>54539791
Currently asking this and several other questions.
Re: not answering plainly, that's someting of a trait for this player.
He's actually hit on me before over snapchat (am female, gave clear boundaries i'm not afraid to enforce), as a married and soon-to-be father. Hmm.... writing all that out here, now, damn....

Dragonborn exist as a race purely to act as a beacon for That Guys. Prove me wrong.

>>54539693
>paladins are only allowed to be this one alignment, no others ever
You're a titanic faggot, almost as bad as Captain Teamkill there

>>54539909
>it's That Guy to think breath weapons are cool and want one yourself
k

>>54539909
I don't think they exist purely for that reason, but they are genuinely a beacon for That Guys. After years of playing D&D, only once as a non That Guy chose Dragonborn, and that was because she was so new to it, it was impossible to be That Guy.

>>54539848
girls don't exist on the internet anon. show us your feminine benis

>>54539909
the awful part is that if it was just, say, being edgy and mysterious, ok whatever.
the player i mentioned is currently playing a cowardly cleric that would rather pick up useless cookbooks that ones in secret libraries, who will stay in a library instead of investigate the plothook I and the rest of the players have concocted.
So i let him. And that works. He learns that I dont mind him being wacky (like having a top hat with Light cast on it in Death House from Strahd) or doing things that dont help, but i'm not going to go out of my way reel him in if he wants to separate from the party. Letting players like him determine details like what a surrounding looks like, it gets him involved and even helpful sometimes.
But it works too because so far no one has gone "harblegarble, i just solved all of our problems and am now a god"

>>54539848
OH SHIT EDIT
this is a DIFFERENT player
i thought it was the edgy one, but it's actually another player who is perhaps the 3rd most proficient roleplay of the group, i will refer to him now as M.
He's texting me the story of this campaign as we speak

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>>54539722
>>54539822
Because they were hit in their pressure points.

You sound like a shit DM and you deserve this.

>>54540329
She's only made 4 posts, how can you tell if she's shit or not

>>54540371
The OP was enough.

>>54540174
desu the fact this is coming from M and not the sleazy player makes a big difference, although the last time M brought someone to play, he was an immature fratty guy. Didn't help he tried to tell me, an introvert with a psych b.a., that i was not an introvert because of how i talked.

The story:
> The DM and [Friend, "B"] were the only ones who knew [B] was separating characters periodically and killing them.
>Sometimes it was like [time when his character was knocked out and replaced with probably his one of the copies of himself he is able to make. hasn't been resolved yet] So the players in and out of game had no clue what was going on. hey just thought he was an evil DM.
> When in fact he was a good DM just let B do the dirty work and kept it under wraps until they were out drinking one night and e got chatty
>It was actually a really funny story to hear and it's why i wanted to play DnD in the first place
[...]
>Haha Brandon is an asshole but a fun asshole.
> Get to talk to him and you'll see what i mean

Does this change anything to you, /tg/?

>>54540413
Talk to your players about Brandon, figure out what they would and wouldn't be comfortable with, make sure Brandon knows what he is and isn't allowed to do, kick him if he can't comply

>>54540413
Assholes have shit coming out of them and they stink, whether they're "fun" or not.

You say you're a new GM. Tell this guy that you can't handle the challenge of an extra player right now.

>>54540413
Fucking drop him, that shit sounds awful and he's probably gonna do everything in his power to ruin the game for others.

>>54539399
First, thanks for introducing me tangentially to 'the same page tool', totally going to use that in my next campaign.

Second, based on your information here >>54540413, your next best step is talking with Brandon. Get to know his personality and playstyle a bit before he comes to the table. If you don't want him disrupting the game with player-killing, let him know that. If there's anything else he might do that would frustrate you, let him know about it. Ask him what he expects from the game and what might frustrate him. Have him meet some members of the group in a setting that's not D&D.

If he does something in poor taste or that annoys you, let him know immediately but shelve discussion of it until after the game. If you or any of the people at your table don't like having him around, or if he keeps doing something obnoxious, kick him from the group.

Above all else, don't let him ruin the game for everyone else. If you feel like he's toxic and making people at the table not have fun, get him out ASAP and move on. I've played too many games with jerks and not kicked them because I felt bad about it. Don't make the same mistake I have.

>>54539399
Listen, the friend who is inviting him? He's looking to tank your game. This is an active act of sabotage.

>>54540413
Ok I'll say it: the issue with your friends friend is not that he wants to kill the party. The issue is that he wants to kill the party and presumably your other players aren't down with that. Talk with your players. Confirm that this style of intraparty scheming is or is not what they (and you) want, and accept or reject the new player based on that. If anyone gets angry over that then they're a faggot and not worth considering the feelings of.

>>54540413
>When in fact he was a good DM just let B
Lemme stop you there. Letting one player rob the others of agency is not good DMing. Quite the opposite in fact. The only bigger shitter in that situation is the player that pitched and executed it. How you're even considering adding this guy is baffling.

>>54540486
>>54540488
>>54540481
>>54540582


The way the game store works is that if you're running an open group, you can get kick backs. Trade is thatyou can't refuse anyone until/unless you have 7 players max.
At the same time i appreciate all this and didn't think about the 'new dm' excuse. If i can wing it and need to, thanks in advance.
If he's toxic, i'm not going to stand for that for a moment, but i'm so glad to feel like that feeling is validated.

>>54540610
Whoa, that's a thing? I'm not sure if that's in his personality, but at the same time I'm not positive. Noted!!

>>54540611 >>54540643
AGREED. I am a free-form rper by experience, and??? That's what i still kept texting M. They... didn't have a say? They couldn't roll to save or have any foothold in their own character's lives? That shit is not going down at my table. Maybe the DM isn't horrible all the time, but that's just... Not Good. No.

Going forward, i plan to get their early and try to catch who i can before B and M arrive. Give them the lowdown and let them know that if they are feeling uncomfortable or their fun is messed with, i'll handle it.

You guys are awesome, i really feel a lot better about handling this situation. I mean it! You guys have helped me get pumped about this (in a "I'm going to properly handle the FUCK out of this!") way. If nothing else, i will be able to regale interested people later and learn from it.

>>54539399

The only winning move with That Guy is not to play.

You're playing fucking d&d. If you don't know how to handle that guy by this point, you're beyond helping.

>>54539909
>Tieflings/Cambrian/Doppelgangers/Changlings/Elves/Humans exist as a race purely to act as a beacon for That Guys. Prove me wrong.
No.

it's simple. Kill him, before he kills you

>>54539399
If you're a new DM, a good way to say no to something shitty is to say "hey, sorry guys, I'm new and I wouldn't know how to handle that. [cue embarrassed looking uwu blushing]"

>>54539848
Well shit dude, if he hit on you despite being married you can't trust him to do anything right ever. (Unless that was the other guy?)

Also, your game store sounds like shit. Being unable to kick people at all? Really? Jesus.

>>54540973
Man, seven players is kind of a crowd for me and I've been dm-ing for years. It's hard to pass the spotlight around fairly with that many people.

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>>54539948
>class built around being a virtuous knight
>liberfag SJWs twist it into being "lol a champion of an ideal"
>completely destroy all meaning of the class

God I wish all these fucking faggots were put to death. Fuck off, stop ruining D&D with this bullshit. Paladin of freedom and gray knight were bad enough but at least they were optional rules in Unearthed Arcana. Now you can play a tranny demi-sexual and be a chaotic-evil paladin or a neutral good blackguard or a lawful good lich because WHY NOT? Why should anything have any meaning or structure? Everything should be open and free, do whatever the fuck you want! And thus destroy a mythos that actually felt rich and pure, just so you can have your special snowflake character.

You motherfuckers did this. And we will never forgive you.

>>54543037
fuck off /pol/tard. Not everything is related to your internet slap fights.

>>54543068
This has nothing to do with /pol/. This has to do with morons being morons. Lawful evil paladin is fucking moronic. And when people say why, you say "because the class is meant to be lawful good." And they say "LOL NO THAT's JUST HOW IT USED TO BE, STOP BEING ANTI-PROGRESS, STOP BEING CLOSE-MINDED."

Fuck. Off. Stop destroying D&D's identity and turning it into the disgusting soul-less schlock of 99% of modern fantasy settings.

>>54543037
>CE Paladin
>Somehow makes this an argument about transexuals.
>???

>>54543234
It's a parallel example to show how the nuD&D creators are putting "play what you want" before the tone of the world. It's like letting you play a transdemisexual in Lord of the Rings, it is not a part of the setting, keep it the fuck out, it ruins the tone. Just like playing a minotaur in Middle Earth would be stupid because that shit doesn't exist in Middle Earth. But the nuD&D players will whinge and whine, "stop restricting me," and "fun comes first, your autistic setting doesn't matter" and then laugh hysterically when they roll a nat20 and force you to have Denethor suck xir dick.

>>54543213
>>54543268
No one gives a fuck, go cry somewhere else.

>>54543268
>transdemisexual in Lord of the Rings
>not a part of the setting
>ruins the tone

Friendo, how does a dude who wants to dress like a chick ruin the setting which *invented modern elves*? How fucking retarded are you?

Take your /pol/shit back to your containment board.

Why are you giving responses to the troll who is doing this literally just to get responses?

>>54543455
Tolkien Elves aren't... They, aren't even close to what you are describing. Are you actually retarded?

>>54539399
>New Player
>wants to be Evil of any flavor
Nah. Tell him he's either gonna play Good, or not play at all. Same with Chaotic. Never trust a new guy with Chaotic.

>Killed his entire party
Fuck this guy already. There is a vanishingly small chance this guy isn't a shitter. If you HAVE to play with him, make it a one-off to see how he plays. If there's ANY red flags, kick him.

>>54543268
I don't think you've played D&D in the last forty years if you think it can only have stuff that fits in Middle Earth, or that it has enforced consistent content.

>>54543309
>No one gives a fuck, go cry somewhere else.
No. You bastards can get the fuck out of our hobby.

>>54543455
>Friendo, how does a dude who wants to dress like a chick ruin the setting which *invented modern elves*? How fucking retarded are you?
Because Lord of the Rings elves are not gay, that stupid meme was invented to give them a foothold into introducing gays and lesbians into D&D. Same with the androgynous Corellon.

>>54546095
It was an analogy you idiot. Of course D&D is not Middle Earth. But the implied setting of AD&D is far richer than the 3e+ kitchen sink horse shit.

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>>54543037
>hey, can players playing an Evil alignment have access to a holy warrior class too? One that isn't a DMG prestige class?
>eh, sure.
>FUCKING LIBERALS YOU ARE RUINING D&D

holy hell get a grip

>>54546218

Right?

What does being 'liberal' even have to do with playing a paladin that's evil? I.. don't even think words have meanings anymore. We just say anything.

You fuckin hipster nazi

>>54546145
D&D was even more of a fantasy kitchen sink before 3e though. It didn't even keep itself to "Fantasy" as genre authors think of it now.

>>54543037
All I read is "People should play characters they way I want them to"

You are "that guy"

Why the fuck can't some one play an evil knight dedicated to an evil god?

>>54546321
If there is one word that can best describe an evil paladin it's: edglord hipster

>>54543037
>evil gods aren't allowed to have champions
>m-muh rich mythos that totally wasn't a hodgepodge of Tolkien, Moorcock and whatever Gygax was reading at the time!
Shut the fuck up and take those rose-tints off you giant talking dildo

>>54543037
This guy gets it
>>54543068
>>54543234
>>54546218
>>54547334
>>54550497
These are faggots

>>54550461
>If there is one word that can best describe an evil paladin it's: edglord hipster
No, it's "blackguard." That's what an evil paladin is fucking CALLED. And "edgelord hipster" is two words, but I am going to hope you were being ironic.

>>54550497
Evil gods can have champions, but they are NOT fucking PALADINS.

>>54539399
'Hey guys, there's this potential player who usually loves PVP. How do you guys feel about PVP?'

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>>54547334
>All I read is "People should play characters they way I want them to"
No you stupid fucking piece of shit, they should play characters of a proper class. If you want to be an evil knight, you play a blackguard. Paladins are Lawful Good. That is what they have been since the beginning of time. That's what the *rules* say you stupid fucking piece of shit. Just because 5e said "lol you can be whatever you want because that's progressive and D&D is progressive now" doesn't mean it's okay.

And by the way, when I am the DM, you play whatever I allow you to play, okay? Got that, boy? Otherwise you can just go find an Adventurer's League group to deal with your edgy knight.

Oh and by the way, also, when you play your "edgelord knight" in a group full of good-aligned characters, YOU are that guy. No, no, no, you don't get to play whatever you want, you play something that meshes with the rest of the party, you narcissistic millennial fuck. What you want, does not matter. Despite the likes you get on Snapgram, no one gives a fuck about what you want. So you can either play something that meshes well with the group, or you can go fuck yourself. That's the way social hobbies with other people work. None of this "compromise is meeting people halfway, which ACTUALLY means giving me everything I want." Fuck off, stop trying to twist the classes into meaningless parodies of themselves. It's not interesting, it's not creative, it's the RPG equivalent of a child smearing shit on the wall in the vague shape of a smiley face. And there's a point where you stop smiling through your teeth and pretending it's cute, and go get the fucking cattle prod.

>>54553147
Don't hold back, anon, tell us how you really feel.

>MAN I FUCKING WISH /tg/ WASN'T SO TERRIBLE NOW
>oh hey obvious bait, let's give it (You)s

hmm

>>54543037
I feel you, anon

theres probably no politics involved all the time tho.

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>>54553147
What if every character I make is lawful evil even if in behavior they replicate altruistic paladins of virtue due to the fact it will earn them the greatest rewards?

Only stupid characters aren't lawful evil, anon.

>>54539399
tell them no. its that easy anon, just say no

>>54553301
True. I just lump it in with the whole nuD&D bullshit that has gone around since 2008 or so, trying to make the game mainstream. I don't mind people being in my sekrit klub but when they try to dilute and warp the already existent culture then it is time to actively resist their presence.

>>54553147
>when I am the DM
which is never because nobody wants to play with your autistic anally-pained ass
>hurrrrr you need to play blackguard if you evil!!!
Bitch please, nowhere outside of D&D is this a thing, and when has sticking with what that did without a damn good reason ever worked out?

"D&D culture" is also responsible for all that "hurr nat 20" shit idiots like you bitch about, as well as shit like Pun-Pun, caster supremacy, killer housecats and other such things that should be dumped

>>54543309
That's clearly not true, given how many triggered libshits responded to his post. What you meant to say is, "I disagree vehemently with you and wish you to vacate my safe space."

>>54553147
>When a company comes out with a new product, they have NO RIGHT to make it functionally or thematically different from the one that I liked

>>54553697
>he said, while screeching autistically about people invading his overweight manchild safe space

lol

What if you are "that guy"? Well Sorta...

>Join Pathfinder game that I'm friends with the DM but haven't met anyone else.
>Everyone seems fine, typical group of players.
>I'm pretty relaxed as I've done several campaigns with my friend as DM before so know how he works.
>Typical start, friends sets up the scenario of starting in a tavern ect, to make things more interesting I act as a rich ex-military man now merchant interviewing and recruiting people to go on an adventure. This works 2 fold as both a way to instigate my self as team leader and learn a bit about the other players.
>Ask the room in general if anyone would be interested in joining my crew.
>No one speaks up, they just look around expecting someone else to speak first.
>"Oh god, it's going to be one of those games"
>"and it totally was"
>Basically had to spend the next 4 sessions the campaign lasted making every decision and recommending actions every fight.

In the end, my friend told me that they started another campaign but requested I didn't join because I was being "that guy". It lasted 2 sessions before my friend basically quit because he was so fucking bored that nothing was happening.

>>54553823
>he said, without any sense of self awareness

lol

>>54547334
>>54550497
>champions of a god
That's clerics you're thinking of. Paladins don't get their powers from gods, in the same way that Druids don't get their powers from gods.

Here's what you should do OP: conspire with the other players to have them gang up on him and kill his character in the first session, then play it as a joke (lol you got pranked don't get mad it's just a game bro). Seeing how he handles tasting his own medicine lets you know whether you should keep him as a player or not. Hope this helps!

>>54550497
more cock

>>54539399
Are you, perchance, in Montreal?

>>54553697
>you can't disagree with someone being an idiot on 4chan without being a librul
Back to your echo-chamber.

>>54553881
>Tries to make yourself the MC and the rest of the party the NPC's.

Yeps, you're that guy.

>>54539399
Drink thee glasses of bleach.

It will fix all the problems.

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>>54543037

>>54539399
Oh hey, I've been looking for a picture of a Germany's future.

>>54539399
Just fucking say no.

Jesus Christ, at least half the complaint stories that get posted here can get solved by not being a spineless worm who doesn't communicate. No shit characters, no shit players.

>>54540413
Nigga now this story is getting too fucking complicated.

TLDR start a new thread when you have all the info. In the meantime remember to be a mature grownup about personality differences in role playing games.

Anyone got that "Say it in 20 words or less" reaction pick from one punch guy?

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>>54539948
>A class designed to uphold everything that's holy, to protect the weak and frail from the tyrants, to belive in the law and prosecute everyone that breaks ir.

>CE

k

>>54539399
What is wrong with you losers? Honestly? Someone wants to come to your house who you don't want to come, they're going to fuck up your carefully planned activities and you don't feel able to just say 'fuck off'? Were you all bullied too much at school or not enough?

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>>54553772
Well they can do whatever they want with their IP. But I have a right to not buy it, shamelessly pirate it, and do whatever I can to discredit them, within the law. Wizards of the Coast is a kike company owned by an even bigger kike company (Hasbro) and they constantly try to shoehorn politics into D&D without shame or relent. This is why we have bullshit like Chaotic Evil paladins: because some faggot fuck played Dark Scrolls and now wants to be an ebin edgy dark knight, so now years of established lore have to be uprooted just so johnny edgelord can play whatever the fuck he wants. Well fuck him. He can rot in hell, and this is why I actively resist attempts to welcome new players into the hobby. Most of them are video-game-obsessed shits who will literally call out "lol this is a sidequest" if an NPC even mentions something, and act like their meta-knowledge makes them so clever. In reality, it makes them act like complete morons, often getting themselves into encounters they can barely win, or calling out any difficult opponent as "the boss" causing them to leave the dungeon shortly thereafter. Not to mention the natural 20 fetishism that has spread through the hobby the past few years. Normalfags cannot comprehend most of D&D or what makes it interesting or satisfying, so they instead focus on the nat20 meme, made more visible and prevalent to them by the dozens of /tg/ greentexts that have been shared on Tumblr and even Facebook (normie central). As a result, we have shittons of people joining the hobby since around 2010 (which probably includes a good 50% of /tg/) who have no knowledge of D&D culture or tone, and instead try to shoehorn dark scrolls / skyrim crap into it. Case in point: every time I visit /5eg/ I find some faggot asking for advice on how to put khaleesi or argonians or some other fucking elder scrolls race into his game.

Just stop. Just fucking stop.

>>54540028
>she was so new to it, it was impossible to be That Guy
Incorrect. That Guy has no bounds by system experience. Sure, That Guy might make a heniously broken build spanning sixteen rulebooks and ruleslawyer every game to a grinding halt, but thats just a symptom, and being That Guy is just a state of assholeism. It carries over from video games, it carries over from work, it carries over from bitchy social life, it carries over from a spoiled childhood. New players can absolutely end up as that guy and don't let your guard down for ONE MINUTE to think otherwise.

>>54557467
So, really what you're pissed about isn't /pol/ or SJWs. It's just structure, and respect for structure and pre-established mythos. This is the conflicr between modernism and postmodernism.

It used to be that people would come to the hobby because they liked the mythos and wanted to play within that structure, building upon the rich lore.

Now, newer players who want to play edgelord paladins are selfish and have no respect for the setting, expecting everything to cater to their ideas, and the lore to bend to their will, believing their ~individuality~ to be superior to the mythos.

I think both types of play are acceptable, really, but which style is right depends very much on the game you play, who is running it, and what the group has decided on beforehand, freeform or preestablished.

But also.
>shamelessly pirate
>acting within the law

Try again.

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>>54539399
>A fun guy

Television has ruined me.

>>54539948
In 2E I think there were Exemplars, paladins devoted to alignments other than LG. Of course they would have to fluff the abilities differently.

>>54553881
Why would you just assume you're going to be the team leader?

>>54557467
You're a poster child for the toxic gamer stereotype. Your precious "gamer culture" is not sacred, no one gives a shit about being a purist, and stop being a gatekeeping faggot acting like you're better than everyone else.

Newsflash, anyone playing a tabletop RPG is not a normie. It's not at all a socially accepted hobby if you bothered to crawl outside of your hole. Being this fucking triggered by the thought of normies invading your hobby is unhealthy to the point of repulsion.

>>54557467
>But I have a right to not buy it
Sure
>shamelessly pirate it
Actually, you do NOT have a right to pirate. You might feel you have a moral justification (you don't) but rights are something different in that regards.

You do NOT have a right to something you don't pay for. You're just being entitled if you think otherwise.

>and do whatever I can to discredit them, within the law.
Sure. And people are able to call you a retard, which they've been doing.

>antisemitic rant
Okay buddy.

>his is why we have bullshit like Chaotic Evil paladins: because some faggot fuck played Dark Scrolls and now wants to be an ebin edgy dark knight, so now years of established lore have to be uprooted just so johnny edgelord can play whatever the fuck he wants.
The concept of evil paladins predates Dark Souls.

And the idea of an evil Paladin is not some concept born of anything new. In fact, if you go and pick up Dragon #39, and turn to page 8, you'll find this thing called an Anti-Paladin. But if you want Paladins of all alignments, Dragon 106, page 45, an article titled "A Plethora of Paladins" gives rules for Paladins of any alignment.

This concept has LITERALLY been in the game since 1st edition. Video games have fuck all to do with it.

>. He can rot in hell, and this is why I actively resist attempts to welcome new players into the hobby.

I welcome him with open arms because he's clearly someone who's here to have fun.

>Most of them are video-game-obsessed shits who will literally call out "lol this is a sidequest" if an NPC even mentions something, and act like their meta-knowledge makes them so clever.
Grognards have done this since the beginning, and the fact that younger people who have played video games also do it does nothing to change that.

I'm basically already out of space so I won't bother with the rest of it. But basically, the "normalfags" you're fighting against? They've been here the whole time. THE CALL IS COMING FROM INSIDE THE HOUSE.

>>54542047
>The only winning move with That Guy is to not let him play.
ftfy

People are so angry on this website

>>54557000
>a class designed to be a servant and enforcer of their god's creed
Next you'll be saying you should totally allow a paladin of atheism or something equally fucktarded

>>54557467
>dark scrolls
Oh this explains everything, it's Virt shitposting again. How's failing at everything that isn't threatening people with a knife going Craigie?

>>54560049
Paladin of atheism sounds so super autistic

>>54560119
I know right? Almost as autistic as rigid alignment requirements, since alignments in general are shit!

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>>54543234
>2020-3
>not understanding that alignment is gender

>>54559316
>saying "kike" a couple times is an antisemitic rant
>you can own ideas or knowledge
>the reason people want to play dark paladins in 2017 is the same as the reason they wanted to play them in 1990
>anti-paladin as a separate class is the same as a paladin who is chaotic evil
>anti-paladin is meant to be a PC class
>wanting to "have fun" makes you a good roleplayer
>the tabletop hobby is dying without new blood
>if we don't man up and start letting everyone who wants to play D&D into our groups, we'll end up with no one to play with
>grognards act like their in a vidya
>implying you've ever met any real grognards

>>54560143
>Almost as autistic as rigid alignment requirements,
No. When paladin was created to be a knight of virtue, it was made as such. It is perfectly reasonable to require a paladin to act a certain way, because otherwise you lose your fucking paladin powers. It is no different than being a cleric and disobeying your deity. However, cleric is a generic class. Paladin isn't. Look at history, paladins were meant to be virtuous and valorous.

>>54553147
I agree with your point about blackguards being evil and paladins being good but the spiel about millennials was kinda fucking autistic dude.

>>54560250
Just hang it up Virt, you're impressing nobody.
It's better for grogs to die out, if they had their way we'd still be using THAC0

>>54559118
>You're a poster child for the toxic gamer stereotype.
So what?
> Your precious "gamer culture" is not sacred
Didn't say it was.
>no one gives a shit about being a purist
Some of us do. There's nothing wrong with that.
>stop being a gatekeeping faggot acting like you're better than everyone else.
I can do what I want. I can allow whoever I want into my games. I can tell people whatever I want, and if that means that I discourage them from playing D&D, that is my right as an individual. If you don't like it, the crying corner is over there.
>Newsflash, anyone playing a tabletop RPG is not a normie.
Yes they are.
>It's not at all a socially accepted hobby if you bothered to crawl outside of your hole.
It's funny, because if you crawled out of your hole you'd see hordes of normalfags and roasties in our hobby.

>>54560290
THAC0 is an outdated mechanic that has been improved on in terms of simplicity. Paladins as a virtuous knight, are fine the way they are. Limiting them is fine, because if you want to play an evil knight you play a blackguard, not a paladin, and that is the end of it.

>>54560284
>muh arthurian holy knights
And what about cavaliers? They're literally the same thing.

>>54560339
>b-but you have to follow the way I do things, or else it's not right!
Alignments are an outdated mechanic too. Shut up Virt.

>>54540408
>CE paladin
>wants to kill the party
>has already killed a party
If you think this sounds fun then you should just neck yourself.

>>54560049
>Not wanting to follow the principle of righteousness that is the paladin
>Instead wanting to make it an undead paladin of the dark flame who worships no one

Go play wow, you special snowflake fuck

>>54560339
Oath of conquest is written for LE paladins.

>>54560486
>not wanting to be an undead paladin who serves his god even in death
What are you some kind of fag?

>>54560315
>screeching about kikes, roasties, SJWs, liberals, and normies

I'm getting a very strong mental image here. Do you seriously have this little self awareness?

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>>54560500
M-maybe?

>>54560486
>undead paladin of the dark flame who worships no one
What the fuck are you even saying? I'm just saying to me locking paladins to a single alignment is as retarded as an edgelord atheism paladin.

Undead unholy paladins that serve their unspeakable deities even in death is a metal as fuck concept though, I'm taking that

>>54560514
[spolier]thats okay too[/spoiler]
Paladin of love when?

>>54560376
>Alignments are an outdated mechanic too.
Apparently not, because they are still using them. Explain how they are "outdated," also. Just because they are old does not mean they are outdated.

>>54560487
>Oath of conquest is written for LE paladins.
And fifth edition D&D sucks donkey dick. Doesn't mean anything.

>>54560597
Trying to pigeonhole a character's every action on a four-axis grid is something only a sperg would agree should still be relevant. The order/chaos axis hasn't been relevant in fantasy fiction for years now.

Of the many things 4e did right, de-emphasising and simplifying alignment was probably one of the biggest sources of asspain from groggy neckbeard faggots, simply because it didn't let them stroke their chin algae while smugly telling the paladin player how fucked they are based on a Hobson's choice.

>>54560681
>four-axis grid
uh
>The order/chaos axis hasn't been relevant in fantasy fiction for years now.
I didn't know D&D was based on modern fantasy fiction. Gygax clearly had a time machine
>Of the many things 4e did right, de-emphasising and simplifying alignment was probably one of the biggest sources of asspain from groggy neckbeard faggots
Except 4e kept in Lawful good, so your argument is a joke. It should have just removed alignment entirely.

>>54539948
The way I understand it, paladins could mostly just be lawful. Then make him good/evil/neutered if you like depending on your god or beliefs and what code he upholds devoutly.

>>54561233
D&D has had to change with the times, numbnuts. See the growing acceptance of dragonborn and tieflings as PCs outside the whiny grognard community.

And it should have done, but this would have likely caused even more butthurt from the grogs. In hindsight since they were going to get bitched at no matter what Heinsoo and co should have just dumped them, but they weren't to know that.

>>54561618
>See the growing acceptance of dragonborn and tieflings
That's because of Skyrim (argonians) and edgelords (tieflings). Both races are trash and should never have been core races for D&D. I've already kicked two players from my group for trying to play a tiefling and a drow.

>>54561618
>grogs. In hindsight since they were going to get bitched at no matter what Heinsoo and co should have just dumped them
They did dump them. That's what 4e was. And it was a massive commercial failure, to the point that it only lasted 5 years.

>>54561654
>skyrim
>came out around the final years of 4e
>while 4e had dragonborn in core from day one
Cease spewing your retardation Virt, we all know you don't have games except with the gullible and desperate

>>54561669
>massive commercial failure
>this meme again
kek

>>54561711
Look at the sales figures retard. And just because dragonborn were introduced in 4e (late 3.5, really), doesn't mean the reason they became so accepted is because of shit like Skyrim.

>>54561853
lol okay virt
enjoy failing at everything besides shitposting, at least it's stopped you from eating a cop's bullet during one of your spergrages up to now

>>54553147
Considering a Paladin is literally just one of the knights of Charlemagne, you don't have a leg to stand on here. You're saying "you're wrong for playing with a redefined version of my redefined version of something."

Consider that you've been looking at it in the wrong perspective. They aren't saying "Paladin means lawful good Knight, but who cares", they're saying "Paladin means warrior in service of a God or Ideal, one who shapes their lives by some manner of code."

It's bad game design to basically have 20 different classes that are all minor tweaks to the same concept. Rather than have Paladin and Grey Knight and Blackguard and Green Knight and all the other bloat, they have the archetypal powers in one class, Paladin, with modifications on it.

Your definition is no more correct than theirs, it's just what you're used to.

Don't become an old man before your time, anonymous. I'm sure it's nice to cong to storing because you think it shows integrity, but fear of change is reserved for those who have already lived.

>>54560049
Back the fuck up
The paladin was NEVER (except in 4e) about carrying out a god's will. It was designed as a champion of righteousness and justice that may or may not worship a god.
I'm holding the 2e PHB right now. Religion isn't mentioned in the entire paladin section.

>>54557773
expand more on how its modernism vs postmodernism

>>54560250
>saying "kike" a couple times is an antisemitic rant
Yes. It does.

>you can own ideas or knowledge
By law, yes. I don't agree with the principle, but we're not talking about principles, we're talking about rights and laws.

>the reason people want to play dark paladins in 2017 is the same as the reason they wanted to play them in 1990
>1990
Try 1970
>anti-paladin as a separate class is the same as a paladin who is chaotic evil
It's literally the same shit.
>anti-paladin is meant to be a PC class
Yes. It was.
>wanting to "have fun" makes you a good roleplayer
It makes you better than someone who cares deeply about the "purity" of your game.
>the tabletop hobby is dying without new blood
Literally never said it, but okay bro.
>if we don't man up and start letting everyone who wants to play D&D into our groups, we'll end up with no one to play with
Again, literally never said it.
>grognards act like their in a vidya
Grognards act like insufferable Dbags.
>implying you've ever met any real grognards
Trust me. I have. You're just like them.

>>54539399
>>54539399

OP, take my advice as a GM to GM. Unless your party knows its a pvp game and YOU want pvp and have told the rest of the party, don't let this guy in. People like that derive pleasure from other peopl's misfortune and they're not worth having.

If you unfortunately already said yes, thrn you'll gonna to have to talk to the player and work out what your campaign is about and what you expect out the other party (i.e if the rest of the party are already playing asshole characters then you're fine) if you can't get a straight answer out of him whether he's gonna sabotage the party for the lulz, then don't let him play. Trust me its not worth keeping an asshole player if the party's not ready for it.

>>54539532
Code for i wont say yes, but i cant say no.

Which of course means yes.

>>54562868
>Yes. It does.
No. It's not.
>By law, yes.
Law =/= what is morally right.
>Try 1970
They played blackguards, not paladins.
>It makes you better than someone who cares deeply about the "purity" of your game.
Caring about the quality of the game is important. You can't have quality without purity. You need to weed out the unfit.
>Grognards act like insufferable Dbags.
No they don't, You just use a few bad examples to strawman all of them.

>>54562853
Sure. Modernism is order. Specific guidelines that detail how a story should develop. The Hero's Journey is a great example of modernism, because it is a formulated guideline to all kinds of mythos. However, it works for individual settings as well. Tradition DnD for example is about dungeoneering and fighting mythical beasts through a medieval-inspired lens; anything else would be incongruous.

Postmodernism is out to do its own thing amd express its own worldview. Postmodern stories typically do not have a concrete resolution, or even coherent plot. Postmodernism is a rejection of trope and tradition in favor of fun and exploration, over tradition.

The approaches to DnD are similar. One player comes with a respect for the world building, the lore, the framework. The second player comes with their own ideas, looking to experiment and play. They seek to topple the framework and create something out of the mess.

Unfortunately, most postmodernists don't have an idea of what to do next.

I think there is merit to both modernism and postmodernism. One is not necessarily better than the other, though most people do have a preference. I tend to prefer modern structures and mythologies, but Thomas Pynchon is a wonderful postmodern mystery author who really takes the idea of a mystery novel and turns it on its head, in surreal and vivid ways. Gravity's Rainbow is his best, if one of his toughest to read. To hook you, I will tell you this: the protagonist is a soldier during WW2, and he is being tracked by mysterious agents who realize that wherever he has sex is where the next V2 rocket from Germany will strike. Crazy shit, but beautifully written.

Anyway, sorry about the sidetrack. The point is that DnD can also be played both ways, but it is hard to force the two styles to work together in a playgroup, and its easier to find a group of like-minded players. Doesnt mean the others are playing the game wrong. Just meand they play it a bit differently.

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>>54561981
Not that guy, but I kinda get where he's coming from and your argument almost defeats itself.

If a paladin is a redefined version of a knight of charlemagne's court, and D&D's idea of a paladin was originally a redefined version of that. then how many more redefinitions can we go through before we are too far removed from the original idea to justify using the term paladin? At some point we have to draw the line to preserve the integrity of the class as a device for roleplay.

Personally I have no problem with a warrior serving an evil god or dedicating himself to evil ideals and receiving divine benefits for doing so, but calling that warrior a "paladin" just feels wrong at a basic level.

>>54557467
I missed you.

>>54553881
>end up dying in one of the campaigns
>get told to reroll
>everyone agrees it would be hilarious having a chain of characters all having to translate down the line so the dwarf at the end knows the plan
>im skeptical but okay
>session one with new character
>try to RP with the only guy that can speak Dwarvish
>he doesnt tell anyone what I said
>nobody translates down to me
>session 3
>end up walking into a room with 20 skeletons all with crossbows aimed at the door without seeing them because I dont know they're there and nobody says anything to me
>somehow survive
>everyone almost died because I walked in blindly
>nobody RPs back to me after the fight
>session 5
>DM has to bring in a token dwarf that speaks common so i have someone to translate back to the party with
Did I just get memed into being "that guy"?

>>54567475

Bitch, a Bard is a court/wandering historian. There was a school for them. It's a proper fucking noun. Shut the fuck up.

>>54553147
>muhllenials! cucks! liberals! trans!
Jesus christ dude get a grip

>>54557467

Oh holy shit, it's Virt!

Wow.

How

How's it goin, man? Aren't you dead yet?

>>54557467
Hi Virt

> not playing d&d with 3 alignments and only 4 classes as it was intended

>>54567755
Afraid not. He's also autismal enough to put screencaps of every shitpost he makes on a tumblr

>>54540299
underrated

Why not just put a ban on CE like most every DM does?

If he refuses, he probably plays the same character every time, and is DEFINITELY that guy if that's the case.

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>>54560119
Really tempted to make a neckbeard Paladin now
>>54559967
Yea, if you can get past it, it's pretty entertaining sometimes. It's just about the mood of the thread usually. No one ever makes kike comments on "good DM stories" threads (((haha jk there is no threads like that)))
>>54553881
>Silent roleplaying crew
>You'd probably have been the de facto team face even if you didn't bother trying due to the fact
>Everyone's gonna shit on you regardless tho
You didn't do anything wrong, there's nothing worse than silent initiative lacking chicken heads (apart from intentionally sulky loner types, which falls into the same lane, like why do these people bother roleplaying as a social activity?)

>>54560339
THAC0 is literally the same as the current system, but with less math and a greater ability to hide information from players.

>>54561981
>Considering a Paladin is literally just one of the knights of Charlemagne
But that's fucking wrong. Roland is -the- archetypal LG D&D Paladin. He's a 100% chivalrous, morally righteous knight. He wields Durendal, a holy magic sword bestowed upon him by an angel of the Lord. He fights always evil enemies (Saracens). He happens to be a knight of Charlemagne, but that's not really the point of his existence. Consider cracking open a book or killing yourself.

>>54564708
>They played blackguards, not paladins.
You're a fucking retard who clearly only started playing during the era of 3.x, because I have pointed out that you're DEMONSTRABLY wrong.

Because there were no rules for blackguards in 1e, or 2e. Blackguards first made their debut in the 3rd edition DMG.

When someone wanted to play an evil Paladin, back in the days of Gygax.

THEY
PLAYED
A
FUCKING
PALADIN

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>>54568766
>THAC0
>less math

>>54568826
>saracens are always evil

>>54553107
So this is just about semantics?

>>54543037
This, this so fucking much

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>>54557773
Post modernism is a cancer slowly eating away at our culture.

>>54569632
>Complains about postmodernism without knowing what postmodernism even is.

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>>54570050
>assuming that that some one doesnt know what postmoderinsm is then not explaining it to asolve yourselve of criticism
continental philosopher detected
also kys

>>54539909
Sure, just like Kender and Kitsune and Minotaur and whatever the hell else the most recent That Guy you had to deal with was playing.

Christ. Fuck off already. That Guy is going to be That Guy regardless of his choice of race.

>>54569632
Gee anon, you sure do seem to like big words for someone who doesn't understand them.Did you drop out of college by any chance?

>>54569131
>saracens are always evil
from the perspective of the good christians of european courts

Yes

Moors and Berbers as well

Unless they renounced their false prophet and accepted Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior

Am I the only one curious whether or not OP did end up with That Guy, rather than wanting to argue about whether or not Paladins should be LG and stay LG?

OP, if you're still around, please storytime to distract us from a fruitless argument

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>>54539399
>he's killed his entire party before in a 2 year long campaign
What? Seriously, I don't understand this. If someone is going to be a shitlord and TPK whatever, this hobby has assholes and I'm willing to suffer through it to get good games, but I've never had someone wait more than a few months to try a TPK.

Two years though? Fucking what? Why would they decide to ruin everything after two years? Did they get possessed by the demon of having a shit time or something?

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>>54543037
Holy shit, I hope you aren't this much of a retard at the table and just save it all for the internet.

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>>54539399
>am sent a screenshot.CE Black Dragonborn Paladin
>Player: "He is the kind of player that wants to kill everyone in the party. Ha"
>ask if he's That Guy
>am told "He's a fun guy". Also that he's killed his entire party before in a 2 year long campaign.

>>54570075
Fucking pleb stop being right

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>>54560049
>Next you'll be saying you should totally allow a paladin of atheism
palladin of enlightenment sounds fucking awsome acutally.
>knowledge
>reason
>individualism
>freedom
i would play the fuck out of that

>>54543037
Gray Knight was a Pelor/Zarus Centric Paladin sanctioned by the church, they were effectively 40k tier Black Templar/Crusaders. Bane is fucking right, so paladin's of Tyranny fare well in world full of "every thing conceivable can kill you" But fuck knows why Paladin's of Slaughter to Lolth were ever a thing, I have no idea, other than it's the Abyss and it's ability to fuck with morality as a force because it's so evil. But by 4e, Paladins and any "moral" classes were just the pissfied PC version's of good guys and the like.

>>54540973
What the fuck? You can't refuse anyone until you have 7 players?? I'd NEVER do more than 4, and more than 3 would be doubtful at best