Magic Story Thread: Gatewatch BTFO Edition

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>>54535563
>"Yeah! Go Nissa!"

Why do they make near omnipotent beings a bunch of teenagers?

>>54535563
>"They fancied themselves The Gatewatch. As though for some bizarre reason there were gates scattered throughout the Multiverse. That deserved watching."

>>54535765
Bolas's bit was legit pretty cool. Just shit talking the Gatewatch and admitting that he really does enjoy being a dragon sometimes.

>>54535563
>Ral works with Bolas
Say what again

Also we're left with no answer as why he made the Eternals, he's planning on invading somewhere? inb4 he wants to go to New Phyrexia and stop them from spreading to the Multiverse

>"You burn it, you zombie it, you elemental it, you illusion it, you block it."
Yeah, that's pretty much the Gatewatch's strategy for killing anything. And dealing with politics.

>>54535900
Most likely Ravnica. I doubt he wants to actually start to mess with Phyrexia

>>54535563
>"Nicol Bolas flew toward the heroes, eager to kill someone today."
Ha ha, I didn't expect to be accosted by poor writing so quickly.

>>54535900
>stop them from spreading to the Multiverse
They already have, anon. Either continuing on from the Old Phyrexian Empire or created with Karn's aids.

>>54535765
The name legit bothers me since its named after a specific place on a specific plane. The context is going to be lost over time.

>>54535715
Chandra is literally a teenager though, isn't she? She's early twenties at the oldest, just from the way her character acts.

I liked it. Bolas got to have fun playing the moustache-twirling villain openly for the first time in forever by toying with a bunch of wannabe crimefighter children.

I love that Ral Zarek is making a return, and I'm not surprised he's working with Bolas. I hope he's our first Grixis Walker.

>>54536006
Didn't they try the same thing with Gatecrash in RtR? What is up with WotC and their fetish for gates?

>>54535563
Ral Zarek just went from serving best dragon to serving second-best dragon

Why didn't they leave with Liliana? Their one chance to beat him got his mind wiped and fled, they needed to regroup. I swear Jace and Liliana are the only two with their heads on straight.

Ral being one of Bolas' minions is funny to me, trading one smug dragon asshole for another.

>>54536006

You sweet summer child. You really think they're never going to go back to the Eldrazi/lookalike eldritch horror well?

>>54535715
Because they don't want Planeswalkers, they want the X-Men. The Gatewatch is a group of editorially mandated Poochies designed to appeal to kids, or rather "The Youth Demographic."

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>>54535765
>yfw it will eventually refer to the massive numbers of Planar gates created by Yawgmoth that reactivated for some bullshit reason

>>54536078

I want Niv-Mizzet to scientifically engineer his own planeswalker spark with Izzet tech and replace Ral as the Izzet Walker while Ral goes Rakdos. We haven't had one yet.

>>54535563
>He saw the slight widening of Chandra's eyes as she realized, seemingly for the first time, just how large Nicol Bolas was.
BOLAS'D.COM

>>54536106
>Niv-Mizzet does what Yawgmoth spent 10,000 years trying to do.

that'd be funny as hell.

>>54536051
>Grixis walker
bolas already took that metal dearie

>>54536082
two out of five gatewatch members literally don't think and the other one is a treehugging hippy

they genuinely thought they could take down bolas without a plan

>>54536088
The fuck are you talking about? They sequestered emrakul away onto the horror world specifically so they could return to eldrazi in a more natural habitat than zendikar. What does that have to do with naming their long term, cross world hero team after a single place on a single plane that now that I recall doesnt even exist anymore seeming like a poor idea? They literally lampshaded the irrelevance of the name as a joke in this story.

>>54536106
Sarkhan the Mad?

>>54536082
Gideon was in bloodlust rage mode. It seems the death of the gods/amonkhet people was weighing on him.

Chandra is a fucking kid, and thought she could take him on regardless, she is prime red character matieral.

Nissa seemed to accept defeat faster then the other two left given really the first opportunity she could (after allowing chandra to leave).

>>54536193
We dont talk about sarkhan the mad, he was shit

So where do the eternal sit on power rankings? We already saw Neheb get rekt by Djeru and Samut so they don't seem that strong. Obviously they are nowhere near Phyrexian or Eldrazi levels so what planes would they actually be a threat too, especially without the bug God's bolstering them. It's seems like at least half the planes we've seen in the history of the game could easily deal with Eternals.

>>54536211
So was Ral Zarek but you seem fine talking about him

>>54536233
Phyrexian goons aren't that strong. The the thing they have going for them is near infinite numbers since a dead phyrexian can be used to create a new phyrexian

I liked how throughout the whole thing, Bolas was utterly unconcerned. Even bored in places. And the bit where Lilliana fled and he looks at the remaining three, the sheer shit-eating grin Bolas must have had.
>"And then there were three. I didn't want to annoy your dear departed necromancer, but between us, I admit I know a fair bit of necromancy. Do you have an opening in your Gatewatch? Is there some type of application process?"

>>54536039
23, yeah, based on Kaladesh stories.

>>54536233
Eternals are 4/4 at minimum that are immune to glistening oil, and there are at least thousands of them, so I imagine they'd be a sufficiently formidable and consistent force of loyal bolas goons.

Neheb was beaten, yes, but by a tag team of Gideon and two of the strongest fighters left on Amonkhet.

IT'S
MOTHERFUCKING
KEN
TROOP

Did Liliana even use the chain veil in this story? Bolas just calls her out on being a manipulative bitch, she begs everyone to leave, then retreats in shame like a slut losing the last bit of trust anyone had in her.

>in a few sets they instantly forgive her because the team needs a black mana user

>>54536233
Twice as strong as a Grizzly Bear.

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>>54536390
>immune to glistening oil

Source

no time to read the article at the moment. is gatewatch finally retired for good? it was fucking retarded

>>54536189

The point of the Gatewatch was promising "If the Eldrazi start some shit we'll be there to stop it." Stands to reason that they'll be reunited by that goal at some future date.

>>54536531
>retired for good
lmao
no

>Bolas, Phyrexia and the Eldrazi all attack a plane at the exact same time
>everyone thinks they'll end up fighting each other
>Instead they each partition the plane into equal segments

How would you react?

>>54536531
Rhe geoup is currentky disbanded after a geeat sefeat following a heightened sense of confidence, but will come back and reform after learning some lessons. Basic story telling.

>>54536531
Well it has been scattered to the corners of the multiverse with every member emergency walking away.

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>>54536573
>Rhe geoup is currentky disbanded after a geeat sefeat

>>54536481
She didn't even do anything wrong in this story specifically, and she ended up being right in that Bolas wrecked their shit. Why would they really be mad at her?

>>54536551
No, it was not specifically about eldrazi, and that still has nothing to do with being called the GATEwatch.

>>54536096
That'd actually be pretty neat. Shame it will never happen because there would be no threat greater than that sans for Yawgmoth returning.

>>54536622
I still think urza is on the same threat Level as papa yawg

>>54536650
The fact that Yawgmoth made Urza his bitch makes me think otherwise. Urza would be limited by the Mending while Yawgmoth would not.

>>54536589
>but she hurt a retarded pyromancer's feelings

>>54535563
I must say the Bolas I got was a little dissapointing. It must be because I'm re-reading Timespiral and just finished the chapter where he manipulates Teferi's party, frees himself and duals and defeats Teferi. And while by no means shakespear his character in there is way better then the mustache twirling Bolas we get here.

Also, and I've said this a dozen times now but it still bugs me, how is all this going to make him an oldwalker again. At least the conflux plan sounded like it could work but this. As the story states, he now has the planar bridge, the army, the gatewatch loose in the multiverse (whatever the fuck good that will do) and Ral Zarek as his new minion. This better be building up to something.

>>54536589
Because someone you consider a friend abandoning you in a time of need is pretty hurtful? Especially when it's a life-or-death situation?

People tend to get emotional over that sort of stuff. Only a robot would think "It was okay for you to run away, your hypothesis about our defeat was sound and it was the optimal choice for self-preservation."

So yes, they're all going to treat her like a traitor and she might genuinely be a traitor and ally with Nicol Bolas.

>>54536589
They were already wary of her, given half the reason she brought them to amonkhet was to kill a demon, but she never told them that.


Ditching them was probably just icing on the cake.

>>54536700
While the mustache twirling was pretty over the top here, it is one of the few moments when Bolas fully deserves to do it. He has 5 of the more powerful (excluding Garruk) planeswalkers in a Plane he pretty much owns, without a good plan and unprepared. So he chooses to indulge himself in some petty insults and showing off, because whats the point of utterly defeating your opponent if you can't enjoy the tears they weep as you do it?

>>54536720
Granted, the only reason she stuck around after killing the demon was because she felt bad about tricking the jacetice league.

>>54536708
But they all ran. She just ran first.

I don't know why Liliana has to be such a bitch about it. You got what you wanted out of them you dumb slut, why you acting like you give a shit about your pawns?

>>54536700
Well, if we are going back to Dominaria, I imagine he might be making an invasion there. Aside of retaking his old seat of power, is there something in there we know of that's hard enough to get to need an army?

>>54536570

I'd call bullshit because there is no way Bolas or Phyrexia would ever share anything.

>>54536754
I'm not a fan of Bolas but I got a real kick out of the mustache twirling this time.
>is there an application process?
Cheeky cunt.

>>54536764
Jace ran away because his mind was being fucking eat by that of Bolas.
Chandra ran away because most of the bones in her body were broken by Bolas squeezing her with his hand.
Nissa ran away because the very essence of nature that she was connected to was defiled and she was being choked to death by it.
Gideon ran away because his invulnerability was actually pierced by Bolas and if he didn't leave right at that moment, he was going to die.
Liliana ran away because Bolas was persuasive and appealed to the coward in her.

One of these is not like the others. Liliana was not pushed to the verge of death at any point, she was not forced to choose between running or dying at any point. Her choice was between running or fighting and she chose to run rather than fight alongside her 'friends.'

>>54536848
I knew liliana was smart

>>54536754
>it is one of the few moments when Bolas fully deserves to do it
Perhaps, but it still bugs me it was so over the top. I somehow expected better from Ken Troop. He's written some good stories, loved the end of Eldritch Moon for instance.
>>54536783
>is there something in there we know of that's hard enough to get to need an army?
Don't know. Last time we were there was during Timespiral and, as my re-reading is reminding me, it is a post apocalyptic timerift-raped wasteland. It's mana is ravished and while al the timerift fuckery gets fixed in the end by the mending I doubt al of it is healed in only sixty years. Still, it's a big plane and I don't know all of it's lore so, perhaps?

>>54536772
Shes not black so she had to be nasty snd mean. Thats not true but thats the way they play her. I really dont like the "revels in being bad" archetype. Its suh a waste on a character with as interesting a concept as Liliana once you sig past "bad girl who makes a demon pact and betrays them" which is the forefront of her character we see. Most of the gatewatch characters have amazing core concepts imo.

>>54536910

It has also 2 continents still phased ou

>>54536910
I get the feeling that this one had a lot of oversight from other writers, since it's the big finale of this set.

At the very least, a lot of the dialogue sounds very not-Troop.

>>54536925
>Shes got

So are we going to get 5 different blocks of where each of the Gatewatch walked to now? That would really stretch this story out.

Also did I read the story wrong or is Jace's mind actually completely wiped right now?

>>54536848
>Liliana ran away because she knew they would get smeared but she foolishly allowed her minions ignorant optimism affect her right up to the moment they confronted Bolas. Then Bolas said, "Lili, sweety, darling. You goddamn know better. Why dont you toddle off to the kitchen before I peel your skin and mindslaver you body through a salt mine."
Ftfy

>>54536925
It's not about being nasty and mean. It's about number one.

>>54536945
Yes, we knew Jace was probably going to have most if not all of his memories fucked up due to appearing in Ixalan as the "planar castaway". Its probably set up for a storyline where they get his memories back including his ones about Vryn, and he remembers his home and family. And also something something neglecting the Guildpact, which is probably one reason they went with Vraska in Ixalan as well.

>>54536971
t. black mage

>>54536939
2? I haven't finished my re-read yet but I kinda remember that Shiv got phased back in succesfully. Isn't that how Teferi loses his spark? While phasing in Shiv he has to heal the rift there and does it by sacrificing his spark to it?
>>54536942
Perhaps, maybe he just didn't have his day. I don't know but like I said, I expected better when I saw his name.

>>54536090
And women/SJWs.

>>54537012
The internal Bolas dialogue before the defeats started happening was pretty good, though.

Besides, hammy villains can be enjoyed once in a while.

>>54535563
>They fancied themselves The Gatewatch. As though for some bizarre reason there were gates scattered throughout the Multiverse. That deserved watching.
My sides have departed the plane.

>>54536946
So, a few months back, I was playing 5e D&D and me and one other party member got separated from the rest of the group. We're all level 14 by this point, incidentally. Wandering around, we stumbled across an Ancient White Dragon (CR 20, i.e., designed to be challenging for four 20th-level characters - or in other words a near-certain death sentence for two 14th level characters) who was specifically out to kill me, because I'd killed its mate some levels and time ago. This was one of the penultimate encounters of the entire campaign.

We roll initiative, and the other party member goes first. And what does he do? He bolts in the other direction, leaving me to die since I could not run nearly as fast as him, and certainly not faster than the dragon could move.

Left with little choice, I fought the dragon. And though it took every single trick I had available to me and a LOT of luck, I WAS able to defeat it, single-handedly. But in the process I got myself (and the dragon) stuck in another plane of existence with no way home.

If my "friend" had stuck around, we might have been able to slay the dragon together, and my character would not have functionally died and missed the actual ending of the campaign by being trapped in another plane of existence.

>Ral Zarek, the last remaining white male planeswalker alive outside of Jace, has been made evil
>Tezzeret, formerly a black villain, is now white
>Gideon, formerly a white hero, is now black
Clever, Wizards.

>thinking Lili would want to fight an impossible foe right after seeing her little Cloak Boy's mind completely wrecked
Liliana did nothing wrong.

>>54536499
IIRC the stuff they're preserved with prevents them from being transformed.

>Bolas slapping the shit out of Gideon
>"That was your mind expert, I believe? Do you have a spare? I can wait, or I promise not to listen if you shout at each other." Nicol Bolas lingered on each word, his voice rumbling through the open plaza, punctuated only by the continued thwaps as he bounced Gideon off the wall.

>>54537012
Also, they went all in on trying t9 make Bolas feel more red this set by emphasizing theatrics, hence the framing of the set being that of a disaster movie. Its also more useful for a creative design perspective to have big villains that make a big deal about showing off themselves, which is why Bolas had amonkhet remade to feature his image, and also why the eldrazi developed distinct effects on the environment between OG Zen and now.

In other words, expect Bolas to be more showy than he might have previously been portrayed from now on. As much as some will shit on the conxept of the "mustache twirling villain", I also generally feel most people like guys who like being bad guys and indulge in it, hence Liliana's popularity as well. So theyre just latching onto what most people like about then.

>Why bother being smart when the Multiverse so conveniently conspired to keep your idiocy alive?

>>54536700
I imagine the good of letting them live is for when they round up all of his opposition in one convenient spot so Bolas can crush them at one time

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>>54536114

>>54536573
>Strokeposting

>>54536531
This was the beatdown. The next few sets will be the training montage, and then there will be the rematch. And then maybe we'll be done with them for a little while.

>>54535563
So then.

- Jace went down first, and fast.
- Liliana ran away. Even with the Chain Veil at full power she'd have lost.
- Chandra got messed up and nearly died after her fire failed.
- Nissa landed a hit by using her best summons and then had the land infect her.
- Gideon basically did nothing except be a punching bag, then fled.

They definitely got their shit pushed in.

>>54535900
I thought this was interesting as well. It also reminds me of something that I think Doug Beyer said on his vorthos thing a few years back, that Nicol Bolas has been "keeping an eye on Niv-Mizzet" for quite some time now. And now we find out that Ral Zarek, Izzet mage and walker who just recently helped Jace hide planeswalking from Niv, works for Bolas. Nicely done.

I wonder who Bolas had spying on the others. Liliana, Gideon, Nissa, Chandra... he's probably got eyes and ears much closer than they might realise.

>>54536082
Nissa wouldn't have left before Chandra did, and both Chandra and Gideon were refusing.

Liliana's still very tsundere about Jace.

>>54536314
>My wings hurt
>I miss my powers
>I wish Urza wasn't dead
>I wonder what happened to the Umezawas

>>54536663
Yawg only had those mind dominating powers while on Phyrexia IIRC. Something about having dominion over the entire plane's inhabitants.

>>54536700
>how is all this going to make him an oldwalker again
We don't know. Remember, he himself says that these are only the very first open steps. There's a ways yet before he's done.

>>54536772
She does give a shit about them, and several shits in the case of Jace, she just cares about herself and her survival more.

>>54536700
From what I gathered in today's story, Bolas was just really excited to get to play the villain again. He'd been doing it for millennia, and old habits die hard.

>>54537418
He also killed reality warping old walkers by simply brushing against them.

>>54537408
>>I wonder what happened to the Umezawas
From memory, he implied after he resurrected and planeswalked away back in Time Spiral that he was going to track them down. Or their descendants, at any rate. All of them. And their friends. And their pets.

Liliana still best girl confirmed.

>No deaths
>everyone lives
>get sent away to different places

This is so goddamn lame. It's like a generic shonen manga... the heroes get trounced, then go find "separate mentors", cue a story where they rejoin and pep talk each other, then go defeat the big bad bolas.

This is more disappointing than eldritch moons "twist"... I didn't even think that was possible, but there it is.

>>54537471
Ok then,
>After I get my powers back, I should kill the Umezawas again

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>>54537495
>Phyrexians are literally the only villains capable of killing heroes

>>54537495
Well, we did just witness a seriously fucking broken team there. Jace got mindraped again, Lili fucked off to god knows where, Chandra is pissed at Lili and the world, Nissa is a low functioning autist with no handler, and Gideon has no one to hero complex for. They may not be dead, but they are broken.

>>54536650
Urza wasn't a very strong planeswalker.
What he was was extremely dedicated to his goal of FUCK PHYREXIA (which later switched meanings, then switched meanings again) and supplementing everything he did with a shitload of artifice.

>>54537541
How the fuck did you get it in your head that Urza wasn't all that strong

He was the most powerful Oldwalker after Taysir.

>>54537516
>implying Hasbro will let them kill off any more PWs now that they have cards they can sell for them
Were you not here for the Venser thing?

>>54537556
Depending on who is writing, tehy are equal, Urza a best, or The One Made of Five keeps his title.

One death, ONE death is all I wanted out of this.
Just as a lesson to the rest, kill Chandra or Gideon, nobody gives a shit about them anyways.
But no, guess that's not good for business.

Such an annoying story line. Bolas was always a shit villian, too cartoon to be fun. Withotu someone like Urza or Teferi to provide a real challenge, the only thing holding him back is himself.

They should have just had him kill the watch. None of them have the traits of true heroes anyway. At least bring Karn and Elspeth back in to give them some credibility.

>>54537606
>Muse about how supernaturally lucky the team is.
>Don't kill any of them.

Patheitc.

>>54537516
And Heliod.

>>54537580
>the Venser thing
Go on. I'm not angry enough today.

>>54537495
lil pretty blatantly abandoned them. she might even be going to team bolas? raven man certainly seems team bolas.

>>54537606
in the very least they could have left it uncertain as to gideon's fate. he was the last one on amonkhet. they could have just drawn the curtain and left us guessing.

>>54537145
I remember they got a whole bunch of complaints about what was red in Bolas's color identity, other than 'being a dragon' a while back, so that's almost certainly it.
We can probably expect any further plans to include a bit of personal funtime on Bolas's part. You know what they say about all work and no play, after all.

>>54537606
>kill Chandra or Gideon
Gids has already been marked for death. It was prophesied by one of Amonkhet's late gods. You'll just have to wait a couple of blocks for it. It'll probably happen on Theros which we're pretty sure we'll be going back to. My gues for the planes of the coming blocks; Ixalan > Dominaria > Theros

>>54537516
>inb4 phyrexia manages to capture and complete jace or some other really powerful planeswalker
please god

>>54537664
It's not much of a story. They killed off Venser, and management/marketing got pissed off because now that he's dead, they can't do more cards and make more money.

So the point is that for identifiable, brand-able characters, they are highly unlikely to die. It's a money thing.

>>54537743
It makes Nic a dull boy?

>>54537670
I doubt she goes full team Bolas again. She seems to value her freedom more than anything.

Can't wait for the story where Liliana's facade cracks and she starts desperately trying to track down Jace.

>>54537609
>elspeth
Heliod killed her...so she would probably be a returned, assuming her spark remains

>>54537759
Can't be done. They'd lose their spark

>>54537759
>some other really powerful planeswalker
>Jace
>powerful
Not only are you a standard phyrexiafag, you actually think Jace is much of fucking anything. Not to mention that compleating him would destroy the Spark.

>>54537777
It does. She's in Nyx and can't planeswalk out.

>>54537790
>Nyx
*underworld

>>54537766
So should we take it at face value that the reason management isn't pitching a fit about Elspeth is because she isn't really dead?

I really hate it when marketing departments stick their dicks where they don't belong, such as when people are trying to tell stories.

>>54537749
Prophesized by the only one who lived you mean.

>>54537819
We know for a fact that she isn't REALLY dead. She's on Theros, stuck in its underworld because you can't planeswalk out of the underworld or Nyx, you have to go back to the main plane first. If she could find a way to get out of the underworld and back to the main plane without putting on a mask and becoming a Returned, which would remove her Spark, then she'd be quite capable of leaving.

>>54537777
>doubting Dack's ability to steal things
He'll get her out of there completely fine, spark and all.

And some time after that, we'll get the Gatewatch we deserved. Elspeth, Dack Fayden, Jace, Liliana, and Ajani.

>>54536700
>Over the long years, Nicol Bolas knew it served him poorly to be too much the dragon. But it was no fun to be the dragon too little.

I think this line neatly sums up what's happening here.

>>54535563

>Greed implies wanting something you didn't deserve. Everything Nicol Bolas wanted was entirely deserved.

Welp, that's Nick's character in a nutshell.

>>54537852
I figured that Wizards was being tight-lipped about what was happening to Elspeth.

Fuck, how do you release a set called Hour of Devastation, and actually come out UP a character?

>>54537853
>Jace
>Liliana
how about no

Is Xenagos still alive? I miss him. He literally DINDU NUFFIN

>>54537071

That's a level 20 dragon, not Nicol fucking Bolas.

Why is Bolas so cute

>>54537884
Xenagos is very definitely dead. He was killed as a god by a weapon that explicitly kills gods.

>>54537495
Why are people so god damn obsessed with having wizards kill off one of their main characters? Why? You can have tension without killing, and killing doesnt magically create tension. They killed some very important characters in this block already, and you know what? It left a fucking impact. People were sad they killed Oketra and Rhonas and Kefnet. We dont need any more. Killing any member of the gatewatch solves absolutely zero problems you might have with them anyway, other than maybe "this character shows up too much."

What happened to them is arguably fucking WORSE than killing any of them. This group that was formed on the basis that planeswalkers can run and ignore problems yet they choose to stay and fight, but when it came down to it they all ran in the end? Can you imagine howbmuch more that might fuck up Gideon, someone who's spent his life running suicidally headlong into other people's problems to make up, maybe even punish himself, for getting his comrades killed previously, than just having him die here?

>>54536720

Let's be real, if she just ensued to ditch them, she would have done so immediately after Razzledazzle died. Instead, she stuck around to try and convince them not to fight the oldest and most powerful Planeswalker in the multiverse. Her leaving was the most black thing she could have done at that point, and as the black mana character of the bunch, she did just that.

>>54537874
That's been known since the end of Theros block happened.

>>54537884
>Xenagos
>Elspeth
>on the same team
It's like you don't actually know what happened at all in the Theros block. Did you actually read it, or are you just hopping on the bandwagon?

>>54537874
Amonkhet had its fucking pantheon wiped out and its only known remaining inhabitants thrown into a seemingly endless desert where everything that dies comes back as man eating zombies. Sounds like devastation to me.

>>54537884
I stand by my shitty opinion that Jace and Liliana are fine characters with interesting story arcs that are worth resolving. And there will never be a Gatewatch without Jace, and Jace is less fun of a character without Liliana around.

A propos, at the end of the story Bolas tells Tezz to fuck of off to Ravnica to tell Ral he's taking to long. Anybody got a gues at what Ral's been working on for Bolas? Not really up to date on Zarek's storyline.

>>54537955
Gideon is now mentally fucked up, and that's on top of the whole 'a god's gonna kill you' thing that's been building up.
Chandra's found out her new buddy is actually a bitch (took her long enough) and is generally fucked up from broken bones and being called the one-trick pony she is.
Jace has, once again, had his entire mind erased.
Liliana now has people actively hating her instead of being buddy buddy minions. Oh, and Bolas.
Not sure if there's going to be lingering effects on Nissa but fuck if I know what's going on with Nissa anyways. She'll probably get deposited on some tentacle rape plane.

>>54537139
Yeah, watching Bolas play BasketGideon was rather fun.

>>54538017

Ral was working on a Planeswalker detector for Niv. Gee, I wonder who could possibly want that.

>>54537955
It solves the problem of having had these same boring characters for a fucking decade. I'm sorry but if they haven't made them interesting by now, they're never going to. That might hurt the marketing.

>>54538017
Two possibilities imo: Ral was last seen working on a device that tracks Planeswalkers moving in and out of a plane. He was sabatoging development to hurt Niv Mizzet but he was the lead developer for a time. Might have something to do with that.

Also Ral wants Ravnica safe more than anything else, so he could also just be working with Bolas to ensure that he stays the fuck away.

>>54538041
>Jace has, once again, had his entire mind erased.
Just another day in the life of Jace Beleren.
>>54538005
Most of the gatewatch are interesting characters at their core imo, hence wizards' insistence on them. Just they tend to be written poorly, and maybe the stories they choose to tell aren't the best though I cant confidently evaluate that.

So was getting Sarkhan to save Ugin part of Bolas' master plan? I mean he has to be aware Ugin is alive right?

Pretty sure that Ral is working for Bolas for some reason like "don't destroy Ravnica "or some shit like that

>>54538068
>Ral was last seen working on a device that tracks Planeswalkers moving in and out of a plane.
So he's basically working on a burglar alarm for planes?

>>54538065
If thats your stance, what in the world makes you think they'd do any better with any other characters if they were to move their emphasis to them?

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>>54537071
>5e

>>54538046
>Games you can play with Gideon.
>FootGideon
>BasketGideon
>PaddleGideon

>People are actually mad that Bolas showed up and did his thing
None of you actually WANT to enjoy the story, do you.

As to where Samut ended up.

>"Hey, Ramesh! When did you get a girlfriend!"

>>54538098
No, Bolas still believes he killed Ugin because he killed him with his own hands.

>>54538136
When did you figure it out?

>>54537962
of course, its all expected, but that doesnt mean the others wont find fault in it.

>>54538117
Essentially yes. It actually works, Jace and Ral track Gideon entering Ravnica with it. But Ral kept messing with the actual data when he presented it to Niv Mizzet because he's worried about his own safety, so Niv eventually threw the project out and kicked him off the team.

>>54538163
Not as soon as I should have, considering where we are.

>>54538129
>FootGideon
You're going to need to be more specific. Do you mean HandGideon, or DiveGideon?

>>54538145
Note that when Bolas enters Jace's mind, this happens
> the merest moment of a memory surfaced of a mind as smooth and dazzling as a wall of crystal. But even as the thought entered his mind, it erased itself, and he could not remember where he had seen such a thing
Now, where have we heard that before?
>Jace had assumed Ugin was long dead, if indeed Ugin had ever been a person at all. Yet here he was, in the luminous flesh. Jace tried to read the great being's mind, to verify his story, but found it as smooth and dazzling as a wall of crystal.
Jace's memories of Ugin literally wipe themselves so Bolas can't learn he's alive.

>>54537988
All characters introduced in the block for the express purpose of killing off. Net gain of Samut.

>>54538178
Yes.

>>54538190
Well, we know Bolas has agents on basically every relevant plane, and he had one on Tarkir back during FRF, so it stands to reason his agents in modern day Tarkir would've noticed an etheral dragon phasing in and out of existence. And if not on Tarkir, then definitely on Zendikar.

>>54538222

Pretty sure Sarkhan was his agent in Tarkir and he left him to go after a better dragon to serve aka Ugin.

>>54538119
At least I wouldn't be seeing those particular characters anymore. The worst part is that they all have potential, but Wizards has a chronic case of ignoring that potential in favor of writing a children's cartoon because they think this is going to be the next Avengers. Like, don't get me wrong, I want them to write the Gatewatch well, I just have no faith in their ability or willingness to do so, and after a time I've gotten tired of it.

It's like I said, these characters have been around for a fucking decade with negligible changes. I'm tired of seeing Jace be the smart guy, Liliana be the saucy tart, Chandra being retarded, Gideon being the good guy, and Nissa being, well Nissa used to be a racist but they retconned that. Now they all just happen to do that next to each other and there's some sexual tension being teased at. Just give me Dack Fayden robbing some dudes on a new plane each block, focus on the worldbuilding again, something that isn't these assholes. I'd settle for Elesh Norn running around redecorating the chapels with drapes of a different flesh tone. You could get better writing out of one of the cancerous Snowflake threads.

>>54537819
You know, Magic is about selling cards first, telling story second. So really, the story team is waving their dicks in marketing's business.

>>54538255
Well, maybe with Jace starting from a new continue, he'll go back to being the cold manipulative asshole we knew and tolerated.

>>54538246
Did Sarkhan not travel to Tarkir on his own account after the events at the Eye?

>>54538196
They introduced egyptian gods because its fucking egypt regardless of any story purposes. Of course they were probably planned to die by the end, but thats part of planning a god damn story, as opposed to going "aaaaand maybe well just kill em or something". I know that seems to some people's preferred method of deciding what characters should die but still.

>>54538275
He wasn't a cold manipulative asshole...ever, though.

>>54537955

We don't just want the Gatewatch to die, we want the MTG Superfriends to be abolished as a concept.

>>54538275
Jace was never cold and is still manipulative.

>no death

i get it that bolas wanted to abuse them and scheme around them, but seriously Gideon coosing to die would have fit better everything.
Letting everyone escape is quite annoying to witness as a reader.

>>54538289
He was a bit, early on when the Bradywalkers were still new and not quite so established. He was also fairly lawful neutral, but that didn't really last too long.

>>54537339
>your face when Chandra's mom was a Bolas agent
nice work, Gatetards

>>54538285
I have no problem with them introducing characters. But when the only characters that are killed off are the ones that were just introduced, AND one of them sticks around, it's boring beyond imagination.

>>54538298
Basically this, too, since we're not getting anything good out of it anymore.

Where are they planeswalking to? Chandra runs home to mommy, Nissa runs home to Ashaya, Liliana probably returns back to Innistrad and lays low until she tries to find Jace. Does Gideon go to Theros?

>>54538335
I mean if you just look at how Jace LOOKS on Jace Beleren he looks the cold type, I guess. I will admit he feels more good than he was before, but that makes a lot of sense as a development as he had been shown to dislike how he made his living on ravnica, and was morally opposed to the consortium.

>>54537495
You gotta read more books dang

>>54537556
Is this a Meme? He wasnt that strong

>>54537339
>Nicol Bolas has been "keeping an eye on Niv-Mizzet" for quite some time now
>Ral has been keeping planeswalkiing a secret from Niv for some time
Bolas is worried that Niv might get a spark and start to get on his level, oh boy.

>>54536106
Oh yes please yes fucks yes

>>54538417
Lili returns to Dominara, 's why we're going back.

So was Yawgmoth more powerful than Nicol Bolas? I would love to see Ajani or someone mocking Bolas that he was never as powerfully and never will be as powerfully as Yawgmoth, and Bolas actually getting riled up.

>>54538417
We'll find out, though Chandra appears in Ixalan as the "Lightning Crafter" or something in flavor text, so she is there as of that block's story, but she probably ends up somewhere else before learning where Jace is.

>>54538498
Yes, by an order of magnitude.

>>54538498
Ajani wasn't alive when Yawgmoth was nor does he know who yawgmoth is

>>54538498
Yawgmoth was far stronger than any planeswalker ever was, even Urza only managed to kill him by sacrificing himself to activate hyper doomsday weapon-thing that annihilated Yawgmoth down to the molecular level.
Also odds are the only living people that remember Yawgmoth are Karn, Bolas, Ugin, maybe Sorin and Nahiri. The Phyrexian invasion was a loooong time ago.

>>54538498
how would Ajani know? He's from Alara and only knows the tidbits from Elspeth and Venser, who probably didn't know about Yawgmoth

>>54538328
Gideon doesnt want to just die. He could have done that a long time ago. It wouldnt make any. Instead he ran away like a coward in his most fateful hour despite making an oath explicitly about not doing that and now he has to cope with that. Dunno about you but that sounds way more interesting to me.

>>54538618
Venser was rather familiar with Yawgmoth I'd wager. He was born in Urborg.

>>54538498
That guy earlier in the thread wasn't joking when he said Yawgmoth killed oldwalkers just by bumping into them.

>>54538612
Ugin, Sorin, and Nahiri are old enough to know, but may well not have found out about what was going on in that part of the multiverse (though yeah, Ugin probably knows)
Lilliana, being from Dominaria and being born between the Apocalypse and the Time Spiral Crisis, likely knows OF Yawgmoth and the Phyrexians, if only as history (horrible demon-machine invasion and their horrible demon-machine leader)
Depending on what the hell plane she's from and how exactly the Phyrexians got there, Elspeth may also know the name of Yawgmoth and his title as Father of Machines, but that's not a certainty and requires them being Old Phyrexians who happened to be on some podunk plane Yawgy took over (and then they went a bit nuts after)

>>54538117

Not just alarm. IIRC, Ral could also figure out what plane the PW was going to/coming from, since as a PW himself he knew what to look for.

When Vraska planswalked away to a place he couldnt detect, Ral found it noteworthy and confusing.

>>54538612
I don't think Bolas was living when Yawgmoth was.

>>54538694
I'm pretty sure that he was, and he was a planeswalker by then too.

>>54538694
He easily was. Nicol Bolas the creature was printed in Legends, the set right after Antiquities, which introduced Urza and Mishra. By that time Nicol Bolas was already an Elder Dragon, so he was definitely aware of what was happening.

I seem to remember an image showing planeswalkers relationships to one another. And it said Chandra and sarkhan where still on good terms (I don't actually know how their previous meeting went).

Random ass theory:
Chandra ends up on tarkir, meets up with sarkhan and narset, narset informs tamiyo/ajani of her so they can pick her up. Meanwhile narset heals and learns shit about dragons that will help against bolas/ chill her the fuck out with monk vibes (I know the monks arnt red aligned anymore but she was basically raised in a monastery already)

>>54538730
Right, but he was dead long before the Brother's war. So it all comes down to was he doing anything in Dominaria before the Thran fell.

>>54538743
Fuck I ment meanwhile Chandra heals

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>>54537495
>>54537516
I do think the story would be Much better if they just killed all of them; or let just one alive to get a new team of teenager planeswalkers with attitude to fight Bolas and his new servant, Liliana.

>>54538743
I hope not. I hope Chandra walks to an underwater world and drowns

>>54538682
Was that place Ixalan?

>>54538816

Never said, but odds are good.

>>54537888
and the Gatewatch are plansewalkers not level 14 D&D characters

>>54537819
Well, the art and story department are just decoration

>>54537556

Urza was not strong in the classical sense,

He had trouble against elite phyrexian troopers, he couldn't duel for shit, and was often beaten by non-walker entities of sufficient power.

He was a genius, he had crazy preparation and planning skills, but as a walker he wasn't very strong. Serra was leagues ahead of him, Teferi too

>>54538889
In his defense, the Elite Phyrexian demons, like Gix, tended to be designed specifically to kill Old Walkers

>>54537955
>Why are people so god damn obsessed with having wizards kill off one of their main characters? Why?

Because this is 4chan and being a contractarian edgelord is cruise control for cool.

>Jace finds himself on Ixalan
>becomes Pirate Captain Vraska's slave/cabin boy because Vraska thinks Jace without his memories is fucking hilarious
can't wait

>>54538041

nissa random planeswalk sends her into the clutches of emrakul
emrakul decides to make her her new vessel
niss emerges as a G colorless avatar

>>54538950
tentacle rape follows

>>54538498

Yawgmoth took 10.000 years of an entire plane white mana to the face, and was only slightly weakened.

He also had his soul shredded, and it was a minor annoiance.

He also got a weapon designed to kill him to the face, and did not die yet.

And then urza suicide bombed himself into his face

>>54538694
>>54538700
>>54538730

Bolas was living but sealed in an alternate dimension. He got trapped there during Portal, so he did not witness the brother war or the millennia long struggle afterwards

>>54538919

I was referring to obliterators.

Demon are a different class altogether


>>54538998

but for whom?

>>54536754
>He has 5 of the more powerful (excluding Garruk) planeswalkers
>Ugin
>Sorin
>Nahiri
>Karn
>Elspeth
>Ob
>Garruk
>Liliana
>Koth
>Ajani
Only one of them is top 10 and it's the one he would be worried about the least. Because she literally owes him her life and is terrified of him.

>>54536256
Well, negators and the new obliterators are ridiculously strong. They were specifically designed to take on oldwalkers and fuckin' Urza almost got his shit pushed in by one.

>>54538922
Or there are people that don't like the characters and want them gone. Really man, you should try to avoid being so dismissive.

>>54539066
whomst

>>54538950
Don't be silly. Emrakul isn't trying to make Nissa her vessel.
"Stop being a piece, Nissa. Be the hand that moves."
She's trying to make Nissa a separate Eldrazi entirely.

>>54539029
Wasnt Urza suicide bombing what triggered the Legacy Weapon? The weapon wouldnt fire without both of Urza's powerstones.

>>54537109
Dack is white.
And a thief, and pretty much a comedy relief character.
>INB4 italians aren't white

>>54539070
Elspeth-Trapped unable to leave
Sorin- Trapped Unable to leave
Garruk- Already Mentioned
Ob Nixilis- Ran away from Chandra
Ajani- Is very experienced, but lacks the raw out and out magical power of the other members of the Gatewatch
Koth- Hasn't performed any feat of power that isn't equaled by Chandra with Nissa feeding her power.
Thats my point. the 4 original Gatewatch together are more powerful by an order of magnitude than most other walkers. Also, I said more powerful. Not most powerful. And as I showed above, a fair few of your list is out of the game currently.

>>54537109
>Greek is black
>Tezzeret the Seeker depicts a black man
Neither of these things are true

>>54538922
This isn't a 4chan specific thing though. There is a good portion of the community that really wanted one of them to die for their stupidity. Jace getting mindwiped and lost, Chandra being literally almost broken into tiny pieces, and Gideon's upcoming mental crisis is a decent consolation prize. The new Gideon makes an emblem that says "You can't lose the game if you control a Gideon Planeswalker", it would have been flavorful for him to have died when the Gatewatch lose.

>>54539070
Also, from Bolas' PoV, Ugin isn't on that list, since Bolas is certain Ugin is dead.

>>54537109
Sorin is white.

>>54539190
>>54539210
>>54539219
>responding to obvious bait from over two hours ago

>>54537109
Although, interestingly, Chandra, who has always been white, has an indian parent, and she remains white. But then again, she is a potential lesbian, so shes on the stack.

>>54539168

Nope, the weapon already fired.

Urza basically ended his life as a walker the same way he began it the sylex

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>>54537012
>Isn't that how Teferi loses his spark? While phasing in Shiv he has to heal the rift there and does it by sacrificing his spark to it?

That's exactly what happened but IIRC parts of Jamuraa were effectively lost at that time. A real shame, it was a cool continent.

>>54539198

>ajani
>ajani "mirror march" planeswalker
>ajani "enjoy fighting your reflection"
>weaker than the guy who was defeated by mud and by pyro girl

>>54538922
Also don't forget 4chan's inability to distinguish between "I want something to happen" and "something is likely to happen". Like, I get it if you want a character to die, but if you actually thought that was going to happen in today's story, you're an idiot; nothing in the stories leading up to this gave any build-up to one of the gatewatch dying. Plus, it's like capeshit comics; no one actually ever dies or stays dead.

>>54538005
I think Jace is a great character in the stories, and I'm always pleasantly surprised by Jace stories. I don't understand all the hate he gets from people who don't read the stories.

Nissa and Chandra are the worst characters because Chandra is dumber than an inbred dog and Nissa... Nissa's stories are just so extremely boring it's unbelievable. The only thing that ever happens with her is some kind of weird autistic pseudo-lesbian romance with Chandra.

Most of Gideon's stories are boring but he has some good ones. He's better as a side character in stories.

>>54539211
Thing is, it's been obvious that he wasn't going to die here, even ignoring Marketing's meddling.
The Promised End was basically a shitload of foreshadowing, and it has Gideon fucking around on Theros again.
And then Judgment has Hazoret tell him this wonderful bit:
I am neither the first nor the last immortal whom you will cross.
Cursed is the man who forgets his own past,
for I see your death, Kytheon Iora.
You are no god.
He's gonna die on Return to Theros.

>>54539334
The reason that Jace stories are good is because he shuts the fuck up and lets the world do the talking.

>>54538856
I'm not sure you understand what it means to be a planeswalker my friend. It does not make you super powerful. It's just an added thing on top of your powers.

>>54539280
IIRC the parts of Jamuraa that are lost are basically 'Zhalfir'
>>54539334
The biggest problem with Nissa is that she's been retconned back and forth so much that nobody knows who she even IS. Especially not the writers. So she's just kind of...there, doing Green Things.

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Dunno what everyone's bitching about, the Gatewatch got riggedy-rekt by Bolas who didn't even break a sweat.

Wasn't Shakespeare, but I got well enough to it

>>54539334
Yeah, their biggest mistake with the gatewatch was giving Chandra a completely one-note personality and Nissa no personality at all.

With Chandra it's pretty clear they wanted to capitalize on Jaya Ballard's popularity, but they didn't realize that that's more fun in flavor text than on an actual ongoing character.

>>54539391
Yeah that's actually pretty true

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>>54539327
Nah, they stay dead.

>>54539462
Parts of Suq'Ata too

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>>54539472
BUT THIS IS /TG/, YOU HAVE TO HATE THE STORY

>>54539495
They stay dead unless it's specifically set up beforehand for them to come back (Elspeth and Ugin) such that you know they're coming back or it involves the word 'zombie'

>>54539334
He's the best character out of the five because he's the closest to displaying any self-awareness. In general I'd rate them as Jace > Liliana > Gideon > Chandra = Nissa

>>54539479
It helps that Jaya Ballard also wasn't an onscreen presence for years. She was a supporting character in a single history book set that finally got a card in Time Spiral, which is about all you should try to milk out of "lol fire pun" the character.

>>54538417
Liliana probably went back to Dominaria, as it's both her home and a place Bolas would know where to find her. The chances of Gideon willingly going back to Theros of all places, meanwhile, are fairly slim; he might've tried going back to Bant instead.

>>54538532
That's not Chandra's name in the flavor text, we've been over this.

>All of Gideon's invulnerability had proven little worth against an opponent with the size and strength and mass of the dragon.
okay, you fuck you, I know this is supposed to be the big bolas jerk off set but Gideon was able to hold back a fucking eldrazi titan for a little bit.

>>54538938
>vraska has amnesia and became a pirate because why not
>jaces mind gets wiped, also ends up on ixalan as a pirate on vraskas ship
>neither of them remember each other, shenanigans ensue
>???
>bolas ends up on ixalan, coconut hits him in the head, becomes amnesia pirate too

Hire me wizards

>>54539637
At least it'd be something unexpected, as opposed to Wizards' paint-by-the-numbers, creativity-by-boardroom committee, "What's Marvel doing right now?" approach.

>>54539334
Because Chandra's and Nissa's characters are less thought out the inconsistent writing really hurts them. I think Chandra could be a fine character. Emotional, naive, trusting to a fault. Sure, it's a bit cliche, but it's not awful. She just needs better writing to flesh out what she's supposed to be about. I liked her characterization in this story though.

I still have zero idea what Nissa is supposed to be. She's shy and awkward I guess? That just isn't enough to make a full character out of. And she doesn't even have a real magical outlet for her characteristics like Chandra does with her fire, so she just seems to get lost in everything.

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>>54535563
>A normal guy defeats alone Bolas
>The full gatewatch gets crushed
Umezawa plainswalker when

>>54539873
Never, because they stopped printing cards with landwalk abilities.

>>54539852
She ranges from shy to developmentally challenged, depending on the author.

>>54537988
"Rock falls plane dies" is literally the only story they tell.
Theros and Marchesa's coup have been the only stories where the plane didn't explicitly end up worse than it was.

>>54539897
But why do they print a jace plainswalker every set then?

>>54538694
>>54538730

The elder dragon wars is one of the oldest events. Far more than the Thran Empire.

>>54539936
I imagine that has something to do with the fact that if they didn't do that, people would have to see how barebones their worldbuilding has become.

>>54539930
Well in fairness that's what they were going for. Her people were not very social as a culture and pretty shitty in general, and she herself was an outcast even among them since her land manipulating powers were associated negatively with the Roil. But personally I find that a very annoying character to read. I think of them Nissa is probably character I'm least interested in even at her core concept, though she's probably the one I could jack off to easiest.

>>54539873
I don't know how to tell you this anon...

>>54539976
I'd just like it if she got less autistic with each social interaction, not more or less depending on the current author's mood. As for jacking off, I'm pretty sure Wizards has vindicated you considering her big defeat was narrowly averting Bolas' tentacle rape spell.

>>54539939
We haven't had a Jace for two blocks.
>>54539936
If they didn't, people would bitch that nothing happened. That's what happened with Kaladesh, another example where the status quo was left mostly the same by the end.

Also I'm pretty sure it's heavily implied Paliano is much worse under the thumb of Marchesa.

>>54537952
What if there was a place where dead gods go on theros?

>>54539956
Yes, but if Bolas died before Yawgmoth even existed how could he know about him?

>>54539634
Did the Titan even register Gideon and focused on him for a second?

>>54540035
I think it was implied Ulamog just kept going forward and mostly didn't acknowledge him, but I'm pretty certain it was said Gideon did genuinely impede him.

>>54540033
He didn't. Bolas was around until not that long before the Invasion. He was a planeswalker for a long, long time.

>>54539852
>And she doesn't even have a real magical outlet for her characteristics
Muh leylines

Her character is currently that she's autistic

>>54539634
I think it meant an opponent as big as a dragon but also as magically powerful as Bolas. It's not like he just muscled his claw through Gideon's invincibility, he probably used some kind of antimagic too

>>54539936
Ugh. Just don't read stories then.

>>54538856
Newwalkers are pretty much regular characters that can grab extra ranks in knowledge skills and have teleport as an out of combat power.

>>54539047
Did he get locked out of the Shard ?

>>54540095
>"WHY ARE YOU COMPLAINING ABOUT A THING YOU LIKE BEING BAD???"

>>54539334
Nissa has been very boring, but I think there is huge potential with her character given that she spends a lot of time in meditation and she can fucking talk to planets. But they write her as someone who whispers to grass and is already super shy.

The hand that moves was cool, tho, cuz she was tripping balls.

>>54539634
They nerfed Gideon hard. He was tanking armies in Ravnica and fucking Ulamog in Zendikar... and then he got subdued by a bunch of teenagers while playing american ninja warrior.

>>54540286
No, I kind of got Cruel Reality because he probably wasn't using his full strength just to toss the normies off him, if that's what you're referring to.

>didn't even have an exit strategy if shit went south
Gideon you fucking idiot.

>>54539976
Do you jerk off to Hinata Hyuga too?

>>54540033
Umezawa offed him in the timeframe of the Mirage Wars?

>>54540022
You can have a shift in the status quo without the plane getting terribly worse. The Kamigawa story was like this, with the sisters of flesh and spirit replacing o-kagaci. All you needed on Kaladesh was for the government actually fall instead of "oh lol, it was all Tezzeret fault, sorry bro we are actually good".

>>54540218
Not him but mostly with Nissa I just find her the main one of the gatewatch to have a very cliche background while also not being portrayed in a way I find entertaining, not including Ajani who also honestly has a pretty cliche background but at least the way his character developed, as he's older and wiser than Nissa (not literally I think nissa is like 50 or 60 years old or something, though maybe Ajani is that old) and has sort of taken on this sort of enlightened mentor role forgiving those who had forsaken him that I personally like.

Even Chandra who is probably THE most one note of the bunch has a pretty interesting background for that imo lame character up front (a character who wants nothing but to help others, but a powerset and personality is only good for wrecking things).

>>54540388
well, they are. If anything, the Renegades are terrorists

>>54540443
They legit are. The renegades were mostly protagonstic in KLD block but in universe there are legit renegades who are just violent and disruptive for the sake of it, just like there are consuls (most of them from my understanding) who legit care about the good of the people, just the story wasn't about them this time.

>>54540443
Then I should have worded as "we are actually on your side". You had the entire government saying sorry to the terrorist and the terrorists actually forgiving them. It was retarded.

People are talking about Gideon being left broken after this, but what about Chandra? Being called a one trick idiot and almost being crushed in the hand of a gigantic smug dragon after being "betrayed" by a friend she actually looked up to can't be good for the self doubt issues she had back in Kaladesh.

>>54536082
Niv<Bolas though. that's a strictly vertical trade.

>>54540537
Because the government had someone manipulate them into cutting off all fucking power for anyone but themselves in the plane's largest city. In this instance the terrorists had a real cause.

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>>54536106

>>54540557
Gideon was just the easiest to use as an example as he's the one a lot of people thought would die, and the story put a lot of emphasis on the fact that he effectively broke his oath and contradicted his entire life's work by escaping Bolas there.

>>54537955
Because people DO NOT like them. Nobody cares about the tension or the suspense of characters they have no interest in.
This whole thread everyone mentions they're okay with jace and maybe lilly, thats TWO out of five of the characters on the "main team"

This story just proves they will stick around for even longer when the majority of people here don't like them, so their "obsession" is more with disliking characters than some death fetish for them.

>>54536591
Eldrazi destroy Sea Gate and massacre settlement researching them there
If they were there they could've righted a wrong etc
Gatewatch is about the ethical thing of solving injustices wherever they go or some bullshit

>>54540653
Saying "I dislike these characters" is NOT the same as "It would be a better story if they killed these characters" which is what was being said, so do not try to conflate the two.

>>54537071

Bolas was not out for blood, he gave them (sans Jace) a chance to retreat. If the Ancient White Dragon was like "Look I've got more pressing matters today, run and I won't stop you", you'd be an absolute idiot to not run, and everyone who didn't run would be lambasted as a murder hobo for all eternity.

>LOT of luck, I WAS able to defeat it, single-handedly

Just because the metaphorical D100 rolled a 100 doesn't mean your friend was incorrect for declining to roll.

>>54540742
Well, just to cover my ass, yes I know that's what some people ended up saying, but I made the post in reply to one that was saying the latter and not the former.

>>54540742
sure it is, if you're a writing group that only removes characters by killing them off you are quite literally saying "this story would be better if the characters I dislike are gone", so don't try using semantics to be so dishonest.

>>54540917
How else do you suggest they "get rid of characters" other than killing them, either literally or effectively by just not using them, like they actually already do? It isnt a semantics or technicality issue in the least.

Also people changed their story to the more reasonable "i just dislike the characters" after being expressly told why killing them would not make a better story inherently.

>>54540917
>lmao just kill all characters you don't like
Or you give them a reason to not show up anymore. Killing a character is supposed to be a focal event or it loses its power.

>>54535563
Loved the story, some cheesy writing here and there but I liked, Ken Troopening up as always! There're some gold lines from Bolas trash talking the Jacetice League, also Ral siding with him it's bit of a surprise but he'll obviously turn out to be good.

I support Lili's actions, it makes a good arc for her crying and showing weakness.
>inb4 muh jace, she raped him!

Bolas should have found something "eldritch" inside Nissa but meh. Chandra sucks and Gideon should have died.

Ixalan will something refreshing or filler but definetly something different. Can't wait for Dominaria.

Overall I liked HOU story, it makes it more of a dark/edgy/""""adult"""" story rather than a cartoon network show. Also fuck Samut, the most boring character ever writen.

>>54536790
Nah, Bolas would absolutely share, with some longer term plan to take over the rest later

>>54541155
>Also fuck Samut, the most boring character ever writen.
The previous story was such a fucking trainwreck

>>54540742
I think the idea is that since most people hate the characters, they want to see them gone. If wizards never mentioned the five of them, it'd end up way more confusing for the story.

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>>54537853
>being a disgusting Elspethfag

>>54541555
Elspeth exists purely to suffer at the hands of Phyrexia.

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>>54538117

>>54540286
>>54539634
>>54540035

Gideon never tanked Ulamog and/or Kozilek's attacks directly. He simply commanded Zendikari into "bait armies" in order to draw the minor Eldrazi away from the Titans. He then fighting the drones for a bit. This is even mentioned as flavor text in the card Fall of the Titans. Lastly, he shielded Chandra from an incoming floating island as she was toasting the Titans.

>>54541434
Itd also be a pretty shit story if they just up and killed them. Seems were stuck between a rock and a hard place.

>>54541741
Never had a problem with it before. By the end of the Weatherlight Saga all but like four of twentyish cast members were alive.

>>54541782
They also have no problem just not using characters.

>>54541710
>One of Ulamog's tentacles soared through the air, aimed right at Gideon. Whorls of invulnerability erupted over his skin in anticipation of the collision.

>Gideon absorbed the blow, gritting his teeth under the weight of it. A second tentacle hurtled his way from the other side. He shifted the focus of his protection.

>How much longer should he wait? He slashed back Ulamog's reaching fingers. Just a little longer...

>The titan leaned forward, bearing down toward Gideon. Gideon dug his feet into the rock and stared straight into where he imagined the titan's eyes would be. "You're not getting past me." He turned his shoulder to meet Ulamog's chest, focusing all of his power into that single point, the point of impact. He grounded himself, clenching every muscle in his body, pushing back.

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>>54537158
That was my favorite part. Bolas calling out the Gatewatch on their plot armor.

>>54536783
Slivers....i call it now, its Slivers

>>54537471
Well we know he's still active in Kamigawa. Tamiyo's rat-son was orphaned by the Infinite Consortium.

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>>54541199

The part where the random Khenra picked up Rhonas's staff and smacked the Scorpion God around was cool.

But other than that, yeah, nothing great.

>>54539420
It used to make you a god. But even now there seems to be a connection between powerful individuals and planeswalkers.

It might be that powerful people are more likely to find themselves in near death situations and spark, or it might be that spark, even dormant, makes you faster, stronger and smarter than the average guy.

>>54539976
>>54540021
>Her people were not very social as a culture
>I'd just like it if she got less autistic with each social interaction
I agree that Nissa's development focusing on learning how to deal with people would be pretty cool.
>though she's probably the one I could jack off to easiest
Before the retcon she had the Cape thing going, where she was drawn curvy but was still fit and strong. Now she's just elf waifu and I'm still in agreement that she's most fappable Avenger.

>>54542525
Hazoret shopping her arm off was pretty cool tho.

>>54540286
I like Gideon, if he can tank an Eldrazi Titan how could he not put up more of a fight against Bolas?

>>54540653
>I dont like this thing
>Therefore nobody likes this thing
Fuck off

Who's stronger, Bolas or the Eldrazi Titans?
Never read the story, don't even know if they are comparable.

>>54539218
Doesn't Bolas know that Ugin isn't dead now since Sarkhan fucked with time?

>>54542525
I want to see more planeslocals steal the spotlight. I feel like the Gatewatch would be more tolerable written as a force that dropped in and out of planar conflicts like forces of nature, only bringing all five together when shit like Bolas/the Eldrazi/Phyrexia gets involved.

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>>54542881
If Wizard's writing was consistent, the eldrazi would be the strongest things in the multiverse, with the ability to fight entropy and remake planes.
But since it's not, and they range form unfathomable, unknowable eldritch gods to rainbow colored Saturday morning scary monsters that can get pushed back by chad the immovable, its whoever they want to be stronger at any point.

>>54542616
I miss titty monster Nissa and I hate how they censored the art retroactively. That's something I expect of yugioh but not mtg.

Also old Nissa was cooler than nu-Nissa.

>>54542881

Its arguable that the Eldrazi and Bolas are both equally *powerful* at their height, since both of them have had problems where the very act of actually entering a plane is enough for them to cause massive devastation as the plane warps around their huge power.

Bolas, however, is much more dangerous as an individual. The Eldrazi are fucking strong, but they are really simple creatures. Bolas isn't just stronger than you, he is stronger than you and he has more ways to apply his strength than the Eldrazi do.

>>54542990
It was a better time.

>>54543471
When the Eldrazi were first introduced, that just isn't what they were hyped up to be. Bolas is certainly smarter, but there is such a thing as overwhelming force, and the Eldrazi had it until the plot demanded that they didn't.

>>54543534
> the Eldrazi had it, until we learned more about them

No eldritch monster truly survives having more screentime.

>>54543592
Pretty much, yeah.

>>54535563
>yes my dear boy find your footing

gay

>>54543757
Bolas is an immortal wizard-dragon, he can be as gay as he wants and nobody can really stop him or even survive criticizing him for it to his face.

>>54535563

I like his interaction with Lili. He's basically like "Really, girl? You've been there. I know you like your pets, as do I, but really? C'mon. You know better" and she like "Fuck. You're right."

>>54543790

Bolas, for all his pomp, doesn't actually consider himself evil. For his actions to be evil, the victims of his plots would have to matter. They don't.

Consider how he thinks of Amonkhet. "Yeah, I trashed this plane and turned it into what I needed. But this place was a piece of shit plane where everyone outside of a single city was dead long before I got here. This place was always doomed, I just sped up the clock by maybe a hundred years and gave it something worthwhile to do before it went completely to shit. And you know why no one noticed? Because nobody fucking cares about Amonkhet. A week ago, you didn't even know this place EXISTED."

>>54543880
Anyway, he's black-aligned, so nobody has any real value except himself.

>>54543880
>you know why no one noticed? Because nobody fucking cares about Amonkhet. A week ago, you didn't even know this place EXISTED.
this should be the flavor text for the Wrath of God Invocation

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When is my asian waifu gonna make a comeback?

>>54544975

She'll teach Chandra how to achieve inner peace.

Inner peace fucks up Dragons.

>>54543880

Why would he consider himself evil? He's a selfish power hungry elder dragon Planeswalker. Evil is for losers like ObNix. Bolas is too focused on himself to be bothered with right and wrong, and he doesn't generally fuck around when he's doing shit. If Bolas had been in ObNix's place on Zendikar, he wouldn't have toyed with them as much as Obby. He would have just murdered the shit out of them for getting in his way. Actually, half of them would have been a smear on a cave wall before they even arrived to save the others.

Bolas' alignment is Bolas. The only sense of right and wrong is whether or not you're in his way.

Also, I get the feeling Bolas was using them all anyway. That was the tone. He made it seem like he brought them all together himself, and expected more from them, which is probably why he didn't just end them all.

>>54535563
I'm getting a 3D2Y vibe from this ending. They all get sent to different planes by a big bad after basically getting their underwear pulled over their heads and shoved down the stairs, and now they'll all train for a while on whatever respective plane they fled too.

>>54537952
Godsend doesn't kill gods, it doesn't even have any powers whatsoever, all of what Godsend does, is just Elspeths mana and abilites channeled into a simply very well forged weapon.

the real power is Elspeth, who is nearly on SOrin Makarov tier in bullshit power.

>>54538190
actually Jace wipes them HIMSELF and he simply doesn't know it, because he wiped them, he'd already thought about ugin that moment and realized the importance of not letting Bolas know.

>>54538612
not true, there was ONE walker who was stronger than Yawgmoth, and stronger than anyone else, period.

and that was Thrice Touched By Infinity, Jeska.

she was so strong she re-wrote the rules and laws of the multiverse in her final moments.

>>54538498
We don't know. Yawgmoth never broke planes by stepping onto them. He and Bolas also never interacted.

>>54542967
they can be more powerful, and they are, in the most base sense.

however they don't think or act or strategize (at least not on any sort of fucking level, more like Cosmic Bugs) Bolas thinks.

he knows things, he knows people, he knows spells he knows your weakness because he pulled it from your mind.

he's far more dangerous but far less destructive, there is a difference.

this wasn't really dumb, as this was the goal, them being devestated.

its just kinda Dumb Jace went with it, Jace and Lili both know Bolas, Jace knows he lacks any ability to fuck with Bolas's mind because he's tried to do it before.

nothings changed Jace, and you know it.

Lili should have known she didn't have the grit to actually commit to anything in her life, she couldn't commit to the Bolas fight because it meant doing something she could never take back, making an enemy out of someone far more powerful than herself.

the rest had no clue so I don't feel like they should have "known better" because the didn't.

AJANI KNEW better, he said nah, lets get a big posse and then fuck him up and they HONESTLY thought they would have the power of surprise when its clear from the second Tezz walked away, that Bolas would know.

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>>54545064
Apparently, according to the artbook, his entire reason for releasing the Eldrazi was to get a bunch of planeswalkers to band together.
So yes, them being together is exactly what he wants and he does expect better of them. They are his servants if they want to or not.
And, well...

>>54541588
That is what makes her purity so hot.

Also, with this talk of Gideon dying on Theros, perhaps he might exchange himself for Elspeth in some sort of deal when he dies. Could be good, and it gets Elspeth out to fight Phyrexia.

>Jacetice Leage getting slapped around left and right
>Chandra and Liliana getting BOLAS'D
>Bolas with the BANTZ as he slaps around Gideon like a paddle ball

Best Magic Story ever?

>>54541555
Not being an Elspethfag is just being contrarian.

>>54542990
The art is the same on the cards, they just had to change it for marketing images, as far as I remember.

>>54537109
Zarek was the villain of RTR you mongolid

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>>54546229

Mein neggr