Warhammer 40,000 General /40kg/

Only 40k posts itt.

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My three fast attack slots have arrived /tg/. Armoured or vanilla? Weapons? What's your mileage?

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>>54530981
There is the entire fucking internet out there and you fuckers are gonna focus on 40k itt.

somebody bought up all the easybuild reivers at my FLGS and now i'm sad that I have to wait until saturday.

>>54530981
How should i equip my raptors?

>>54531043
why not wait for the multi-kit?

>>54531046
disregard melee and focus on ranged combat

>>54531043
thats what you get for trying to play chad marines

>>54531058
How would i even do that

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Well, look what arrived just now. Dreads will be all gatling and the aggressors will get boltfists, but 'm unsure about the reivers. Carbine or knife? Grav-chute or grapple?

>>54531068
Raptors can take plasma guns.

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>>54531068
By playing orks, duh!

>>54531068
take rangedcentric units with the ravenguard chapter tactics.

>>54531078
i'd go carbine, iirc you get to keep the pistol which is basically +1 attack in melee.

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How is your day anons? Its raining outside and I've got the day off, so I'm getting back into painting after many, many years.

What are you working on today?

>>54531078
what does the grapnel even do? also the knives are crazy good

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Why are these ladies so cool yet so shit?

>>54527754
>how powerful they are in-game
I don't know really. They seem solid.
>sculpts
Noice except I hate those skull faces on those guys. The jump pack boys look okay except a little bulky and their constant fall-back pose is goofy.
>Lore
How they fit in with Cawl is actually really god writing imo. I don't like that they make spacers seem weak by comparison. I hope that in future editions they differentiate and get fluffed out. If they progress the story such that there's a new heretical (thought not necessarily chaotic) mechanicus and the primaris turn into spookers, it would solve the problem of the space marines seeming antiquated.

Reposted because I was a dufus and posted this in dedbred.

>>54531016
Scout, missile launcher, 9x

>>54531081
Raptors, the unit, not the chapter friendo
>>54531079
So2 PG and a combi-plasma?

>>54531096
lets you deepstrike by a board edge and ignore vertical movement as they imitate batman.

>>54531098
;_;

>>54531105
lol

>>54531098
They're not bad as tarpit, 4++ and PfP makes them sturdier than they look on paper for their points.

Should I just buy bits off Ebay, or is there a better site out there for bit ordering at a decent price?

>>54531105
yep

take a single power sword or lightning claw on the champ if you want to spend the points - you've got the parts in the kit.

Does anyone know the stats for the plasma cannon versus the gatling arm on the Redemptor?

>>54531118
>4++

only in melee and don't work for pistol shots

>>54531078
If you gonna use Grav chute then go with knife since close combat is inevitable if you gonna deep strike them.

>>54531125
You're not allowed to take a combi weapon and melee weapon

>>54531105
Two plasma guns, a plasma pistol and a power weapon. It's actually cheaper then a combiweapon and gives them lots of versatility.

>>54531125
So basically avoid melee, run around bullying dev squads and the like?

Someone please tell me spacer codex when. I'm trying to write a list but realised that was futile until it's out.

>>54531122
I use Hordes O'bits but they're kind of spotty about updating with new bits

>>54531118
Why not use razor wing flocks as tarpits? For 84 points you get 48 fucking wounds with up to 24' charge range, and they're pretty much as undamaging as wyches.

It pains me but I just don't see any use for Wyches. I hope they get a lil buff in the codex. Just making their weapons -1 would help a lot.

>>54531135
>heavy D3 str 8 ap -4 D1, can over charge for +1 D and Str

vs
>heavy 18 str 5 ap-1 D1
costs are similar

>>54531155
whoops 7th ed knowledge strikes back

>>54531156
yes

Pls post new SM artifacts.

>>54531169
>For 84 points

they got nerf, brosef

>>54531098
Because they're a tarpit unit and you need to run them in max mobs.

>>54531098

Pay a few extra points and make them bloodbrides. Give them +1S and stick a succubus nearby to reroll 1s, and a group of 10 will put out 30 S4 attacks, 9 of which reroll wounds with Ap-1, and 3 from a power sword.

Wyches with +1T are decent tarpits because they're harder to wound, especially against S3.

>>54531096
>knives
>extra attack
>crazy good
What? How? They are shitty chainswords by another name.

>>54531172
>>54531155

Brilliant, cheers guys

>>54531092
+1/2 an attack; you only get to shoot it in your turn

>>54531199
they have ap-1

>>54531025
Yes daddy I will, I promise!

Ontopic question, how many patriarchs is too many? Since we can take more than one now and I have 3 of the models...

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Why is games workshop a bag of dicks. Now I cant use my favorite army list builder because it was threatened. Which army list builder do you anons use?

>>54531145
Not sure I agree. You'll be close, sure, but the knife gives +1A, while the carbine gives you 2 shots at the same strength plus adds to overwatch.
Also, you can DS them away from the enemy and still contribute to the fight.

>>54531165
Thanks, I'll hit them up to build all my tankbusters.

>>54531212
Pen and paper.

>>54531155
>not allowed to take melee and combi

That seems incorrect, but if that's the case, that's fucking shitty. Why would they do that?

>>54531212
Battlescribe so it can be on my phone.
my local shop doesn't have internet.

>>54531210
oh nvm. it would seem that they removed the AP-1 that the 3 man team had.

>>54531210
No they don't.

>>54531210
No they don't.
And fuck you for making me look that up.

>>54531235
They never had it. The pistols have -1 AP. The knives did not and still don't.

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>>54531080
This git gets it

>>54531016
3x tauros venator
elysians have no other options
not that i mind terribly

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>>54531237
>>54531249
I found it. but it was from one of the starter sets and is probably a typo.

>>54531195
That group will also cost you over 200 points while literally melting to flashlight fire.

Just get incubi and enjoy seeing the klaivex oneshot tyrants warriors. Wyches are sadly 100% useless

>>54531275
that same pamphlet that that is part of has the pistols as being -1 in the other languages. it's literally only the english version in that three reiver easy to build box (and not the first strike box) that has that typo

>>54531275
Mixed up the heavy boltpistol's and the combat blade's AP, obviously.

>>54531313
>>54531294
regardless. 31 attacks in melee not counting pistol shots is pretty nice.

>>54531171
>Heavy D3
Guess nobody will take this option then

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>>54531275
I complained about it before and ill complain about it again.
>Terror Troops
>This guy scared about the spooky scary skull mask guy.

>>54531171
>>54531328
it's heavy D6.

Is admech popular?
People like it here but I dunno about the fanbase at large. People don't talk it about them that often, why do people not talk about them as much as other IoM factions like SoBs? There is no way SoBs are more popular than admech, but the former has a lot more chatter and whining

>>54531339
Still garbage vs the HOG cannon

>>54531212
GW in this case did the right thing.
that idiot was blatently proffiting off copyright infringement.

>>54531212
What were you expecting? The guy was making money from it.

At least GW didn't send a C&D.

>>54531339
It's decent then, i still think the gatling arm will be the more (ab)used

>>54531341
They should be moderately popular

Any info on DG termies yet? I haven't had real internet the last two weeks.

>>54531356
3W T6 4++ M4

How expensive is small knife in this setting? I mean, why not give every marines a fucking knife just in case.

>>54531078
Can you leave the beer gut off the dread? Can you get a pic of it before that piece is attached? I've heard it looks more like the classic dreads that way and that would go a long way towards convincing me to pick one up.

>>54531366
becuasde you cant

>>54531341

I speak as an Admech player myself. There are plenty of people who play Admech, and who like it. There just isn't as much for Admech players to bitch about. We have a decent model range, our rules are fine, other people don't hate us. That's it. Most of what you see here is people complaining about their army or complaining about an army they don't like. Or defending their army from complainers. Admech doesn't have much to complain about, and no one complains about us, so we don't see much discussion here.

Question about keywords in armies. A lot of units have create custom keywords for your specific chapter, division, etc.

If you take something like a space marine captain and have him a key word like sisters of silence, or cadian would his reroll ability then apply to those different roles of units even though they aren't slave marines?

>>54531366
if you read the rules it's assumed that any unit without a melee weapon has a close combat weapon with str equivalent to their str score. so all space marines have a knife.

>>54531366
Well, the combat blade is more of a sword than a knife but even then a single bold shell is more expensive than a sword in the pen and paper PRGs.

>>54531376
We should start bitching about Sicarians and Kataphrons so that we get some attention

>>54531339
also forgot the mention. the gatling cannon is only heavy 12 not 18

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What was the verdict on pic related?

I'm only getting started with 40k, Im waiting on the Start Collecting Chaos Space Marines so wondered would this be good for a few more models aswell as another boars game for the collection

>>54531378
no

this has been addressed again and again and again and again

>>54531397
Where?

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Kirby is finally leaving the company for good

i heard necrons are overpowered, is that true?

>>54531401
FAQ

Is the razorwing fighter good?

>>54531401

Fuck off with this Wu Tang Clan shit. That meme is done. Your behind the times. Fuck off.

any full leak on the codex?

>>54531394

Why would you bitch about Kataphrons? I mean I get bitching about Sicarians, though I personally like them quite a bit I get that some people think they don't perform well so i get it, but why bitch about Kataphrons? Their giant fuck off rape guns are great.

>>54531414
I have no idea what you're talking about

>>54531408
Can you be more specific. There's several for this game

>>54531394
Or Cognis being useless on everything but the flamers.

>>54531431

Fair point.

>>54531427
Torsion Cannons are pretty shit.

>>54531396
No. That's the shittiest box game deal in recent year.

You get 3 shitty snapfit marines and 15 cultist and a terminator lord. you get total of 23 mini for 125$. That's fucking shit.

Want to start? get First strike, Know No fear, or Dark Vengeance.

>>54531232
Dont know it's its very that a champion may swap his weapons for one of two lists.
List one allows you to take two items from a list of melee weapons and pistols, list two has only combi weapons.

Note, this means champions with combi weapons don't have bolt pistols.

>>54531429
Designers commentary on the warhammer community page.

>>54531362
Is the source hanging around anon?

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>>54531330
It's not the mask that scares them, it's what's behind it.

Dreadnought 139pts
Multi-melta

Terminator Squad 343pts Terminator
7x Terminator 2xChainfists, Assault cannon

Devastator Squad 238pts
10x Devastators, Armarium Cherub, Plasma pistol, 2x Plasma cannon,2x Multi-melta

Devastator Squad 170pts
5x Devastators, Armarium Cherub, Plasma pistol, 2x lascannon ,2x missle launcher

Predator 171pts
Predator autocannon, Two Heavy Bolters

Rhino 78pts
Hunter-killer missile, Storm bolter

++ Total: [86 PL, 1500pts] +

>>54531444
It's not bad if you can find it on sale. Selling the Assassins alone lets you make your money back if you can find it cheap enough.

>>54531330
You know that's not because of "le spokky overwatch reaper faces", right?

They have howling banshee techology in their masks.

>>54531376
I guess the absence of complaining makes them seem sparsely populated

>>54531461
Did someone get that box NOT for the assassin?

The fuck why didn't they get Dark Vengeance?

>>54531452
That rumour guy on dakka, should still be there, dont have the link because
>phone posting

>>54531479
Thanks anon. Me too

>>54531477

Media representation, and representation on a forum like this, is all about who screams loudest. He who screams loudest has greatest presence and tends to get listened to. Admech players don't scream, so we get forgotten.

>>54531427
Breachers were shit before, now they're even worse in comparison to everything else. Destroyers took a major hit when grav got nerfed, and Arc weapons have been completely gutted to the point of being useless.

>>54531478
The guy asking about it just seems to want the Chaos models.

Or those faggots that buy sets just to re-sell them.

>>54531016

Only really see any luck with heavy flamers, scouts die super easy, 3 with HF though if used right work nice

Any rumors about what the codex release cycle and/or speed is going to be like? Thinking about getting back into 40k, but I don't really want to spend ages playing with the "pay for the PDF's we gave away for free with Sigmar" Indexes, especially when the actual codex factions are going to be so much better.

>>54531485
>Arc weapons have been completely gutted to the point of being useless.
Good. Haywire spam was gay. Hell, the entire implementation of Haywire last edition was awful.

>>54531412
Looks pretty good on paper, but I haven't used it yet, same points cost as as the Ravager more or less, trading one DL/Disintegrator for missiles and splinter rifles as well as being a little harder to hit.

Slightly cheaper dollars wise too.

>>54531498
There's something like a new Codex coming every two weeks from now til Christmas, roughly.

But sometimes the Codexes remove stuff that was in the Index and you need both for all the options anyways.

huh

>>54531488

>>54531510
You need both? Wow that's fucking stupid. Standard geedubs tactics I guess though.

>>54531498
popular factions get their shit fairly quickly, I would imagine. All flavor of muhrene, Eldar. People who play fun factions like Orks or Sisters will probably be left to rot in a ditch for a few years.

>>54531485
Grav destroyers aren't terrible. They were massively bullshit in 7th but now they're a bit overcosted. Heavy Arc rifles are surprisingly effective against light vehicles though when we have Neutron Lasers and easily spamable S6 AP-2 weapons there doesn't seem much reason to use them.

>>54531498
GW have mentioned putting the rules for each unit in their boxes but they seem like they're just going be partial rules with the full rules in books you have to buy.

>>54531504
Nerfing it is fine, but like anon said it's almost entirely useless now.

>>54531516
You only need both if you want to run specific units GW isn't going to give full rules too. You can easily run an army with just the codex.

>>54531515
>2 dollar whore desperate for attention
>news at 11

>>54531498

GW for 10 dexes by Christmas
What they will all be no one knows but plenty of whiners and Rountree's nephews around here

>>54531510
I thought codex will completely overwritten index ?

>>54531516
I don't think we yet know just how much won't be covered in the codexes. At least for now, the indexes mean the wait for a codex isn't AS bad as it used to be, though obviously codex armies will have a lot more options.

>>54531516
8th edition codexes don't include any models or even wargear options for models that they don't currently sell in the kits.

So like Apothecary on Bikes, or Dreadnoughts with twin autocannons, are not in the Codex. You can still run them with the Index rules, using the Codex points values.

>>54531529
They do unless it's a unit not included in the Codex, in which case you use the Index. Bike Chaplains for example.

>>54531504
Nobody even used the Arc weapons you idiot. Vanguard exclusively fielded triple plasma and Destroyers only used grav.

>>54531529
Points costs in the Codex overwrite the Index. But if a unit just straight up isn't included in the Codex, you can run the Index versions, with all the most recent points costs (meaning you might need to check the Codex for some of its wargear points costs for example).

>>54531536
Hmm that's cool, looks like my Index still have some use after all.

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>>54531532
>mfw codex has LESS choices than the already sparse as fuck index

>>54531538
Arc Weapons were extremely common Anon. People played AdMech outside of tournaments. The only time triple plasma was common was a warlord squad or in a War Convo.

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>>54531171
Wrong.

>>54531135
See here:

Plasma is:
Heavy D6 36" S8 AP-4 D1
Heavy D6 36" S9 AP-4 D2 Overcharged

Heavy gatling:
Heavy 12 S5 AP-1 D1

Don't spread misinformation, especially when you have no source.

>>54531515
>start a real genestealer cult
So... would this actually be feasible? I'm pretty sure there are people legally registered as "Jedi" and shit. Could you imagine the legal battle between GW trying to protect their IP and a bunch of psychos who claim to be divinely inspired by their lore and worship the Four-Armed Emperor?

>>54531532
Are there pics of this ? Because as far as I know this seems to come from nothing but hearsay and clickbait 'rumour' sites.

>>54531078
>marinefags actually rebuy their entire army
very good

>>54531505
Misiles seem a little bit underwhelming but up to 72'' move with those disintegrators seems amazing to get rid of termies and similar stuff.

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Can someone help me identify the bit that's used for the missile pod in these rhinos?

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>>54531569

>>54531564
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/07/05/codexes-your-questions-answered-july-5gw-homepage-post-2/

Straight from GW, anon.

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>>54531573

>>54531566
The best part is that they're loving it too. Gotta say that GW did a brilliant move.

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>>54531581

>>54531473
That's even worse

>>54531555
Even if that's true, it doesn't warrant nerfing them into oblivion. They're just s6 guns now.

>>54531212
While I also liked this army builder, the guy had it coming

>>54531569
>>54531573
>>54531581
>>54531590
Pretty sure it's third party.

>The new Space Marine codex is $50

Didnt GW say the new codexes wouldnt be ridiculously expensive anymore

>>54531605
>Believing everything GW says

>>54531574

Your reading comprehension is absolute shit if you think that means that the codexs will not have the armies full range.

>>54531605
No, they said that about the indexes, and weren't lying. They never said the codexes would be cheap.

>>54531609
GeeDubs has never straight up lied. If I had a dollar for every time some dumbass on the internet misinterpreted something they said or just straight up shared false info, and then it got repeated around until everyone believed it without checking sources, and then they got buttmad at GW over their own fucking stupidity, I'd have enough money to buy every new release every time.

>Great news guys we are going to have 10 codexes before Christmas!
>4 of them already confirmed marineshit

Guess it's easy to write 10 books when you just copy paste the units with different colours.

>>54531613
stop being retarded, you're being retarded.

Demons or admech - which one is more fun? I want to start 40k but don't have clue how and how these armies feel besides fluff

>>54531596
I never said it was ok to nerf them to oblivion. Just saying they were hardly unused, though as far as I'm aware they were mostly only used on Skitarii. GW seems to be of the mind that you are supposed to spam the shit out of them since Arc Rifles are, what, 4 points now?

Yet Harlequins get haywire weapons that auto-wound vehicles on 4+ for some reason.

With luck our Codex will re-work them, but who fucking knows when that will come out.

>>54531613
We already know it doesn't you fucking retard, apart from that part of the article where it blatantly says THERE ARE NO DATASHEETS FOR CERTAIN CHARACTERS ON BIKES, WintersSEO reviewed the codex and told us.

>>54531566
>Rebuy
No lascannon devastator primaris, no biker primaris, no melee jump primaris, no sniper primaris, no land-speeder primaris.

Still a far cry from a full army rebuy.

>>54531623
GKs is probably sadly copy pasted without new stuff
But atleast DG will be a fun time when it releases far too late to be relevant in the campaign

>>54531630
Admech is a thousand times more fun and interesting than daemons.

>>54531444
Dark vengeance seems like the better option alright, not in to the Death Guard so I didn't got with the newer boxes besides First Strike to get a handle on the rules.

>>54531212
Battlescribe as always

>>54531641
Sadly probably true :( At least 3 more psychic powers will be nice, and relics. But im expecting pretty much nothing from unit/balance changes. Castellan crowe still going to be shit tier feelsbadman

>>54531630
Daemons are a million times more fun and interesting than robo-guardsman.

>>54531630
Something else is infinitely more fun and interesting than admech or daemons

>>54531645
Toaster please, chaos is the real man's faction

>>54531663
Lol, did I strike a nerve chaoscuck?

>>54531630
Play GSC

>>54531663
I didn't know Guardsmen had cancer guns and crab walkers.

>>54531634
Yeah they're just flat gun upgrades now. S6 for 4 points.

How do you run your vanguard/rangers now anyway? I keep running into Leadership issues with them unless they have a dunecrawler or warlord to habysit them.

>>54531695
>wow, our laser rifles are a little different and our battle tank has legs
>truly, we are the most unique and varied factions

>no wargear options
Into the trash it goes

>>54531695
No, but they have chicken walkers and massed lasgun fire might cause skin cancer after extended exposure.

>>54531711
>our armor has spikes on it

Traitor pleb.

>>54531711
Hey don't forget their sentinels have gimps strapped to them.

>>54531702
Mine usually die before leadership becomes an issue. I really haven't bothered to change how I run them over how I ran them in 7th desu, one squad full of plasma and two or three squads with a couple of arc weapons, maybe throw in a naked vanguard squad or two to use as a screen. Also obligatory ranger squad with snipers.

we seen the rules for that flying SM tank yet? been a long week and havent been able to check up with /tg/ if so, are they any good to take?

>>54531723
Can't forget that revolutionary change

>>54531722
>talking about Daemons
>AdMech sperg starts talking about an entirely different faction
I thought all you AdMech bandwagoners quit once WarConvo lost their Drop Pods.

>>54531733
I don't even play Admech.

>>54531744
I don't even play 40k.

>>54531744
Sold off the war convocation already?

>>54531728
They're insanely good, mainly just waiting on exact points costs but they're pretty much a Land Raider that is harder to charge, can't be locked in combat and has way more guns, for just having 3+ armour instead of 2+

>>54531650
>to get a handle on the rules.
Core Rules are free, not to mention on here most book are in the mega so get 1st strike just to get handle on the rule is unnecessary

>>54531630
Just do what I do and play both.
Together.
In a Dark Mechanicum army.

>>54531755
I've been playing Orks since third edition. I've been called a lot over the years, but never a power gamer, so, thanks I guess?

>>54531711
>Our "battletank" has a giant fuckheug laser or a massive anti-air weapon, it's totally just a Russ' on legs.
>Army wide buff every single turn resulting from mass chanting
>Giant robots with varying modes of operation and an invuln that reflects shots back at their attacker

Totally just the Guard. Btw how do you tell the difference between CSM and Astartes? They're all just dudes in power armor with bolters right?

>>54531723
When did sentinels get sniper weapons and literal lances?

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>>54531638
>He doesn't realize they are doing it slowly so retard like him don't even notice it happening

Seriously anon, the new Chaplin and the Apothecary show this. It's going to be a gradual thing, over the next year probably.

question: what's the best way to field an assassin for a battle-forged space marine army? i just can't include it in any space marine detachment without losing ObSec, can I?

>>54531791
Just pay up the -1 command point. It's not a huge deal. Assassins are too fun not to field.

>>54531212
a google spreadsheet, so I can access it on my computer or phone.

>>54531095
Finished my two lascannon helbrutes so my Thousand Sons can finally have some reliable anti-armor, about to start on my contemptor.

>>54531787
It won't really happen until GW sells out of whatever stock of oldMarines they already have.

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>from lynchpin of the guard to 0,93 marines killed per shot

How do we make the Russ great again?

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>>54531620

>>54531791
Either an Auxiliary detachment at -1 CP, or. Patrol Detachment along with a Primaris Psyker/Inquisitor/Greyfax.

>>54531802
that sux because i was planning on fielding a second relic and looking at tactical flexibility to reduce the number of deployment drops by 1. the costs in CPs are starting to add up.

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>>54531817
Add templates back.

>>54531814
Yeah they definitely waited to sell out of Tactical Marines, Captains, Chaplains, Librarians, and Dreadnoughts before releasing the current stuff.

>>54531374
https://www.games-workshop.com/resources/catalog/product/600x620/99120101191_RedemptorDreadnought02.jpg

>>54531825
Or you could just fuck right off.

>>54531817
When firing at a unit with at least 10 models, roll 2d6 and discard the lowest when determining number of shots.

It wouldn't make it amazing but it would at least be better at being an all rounder.

>>54531817
>exterminator 6 autocannon shots
>executioner 3d3 plasma shots 3 damage when overcharged
>demolisher is ok
>all other blast variants 2d6 shots

>>54531817
Just take a fucking Punisher if you're going to whine and moan.

>>54531829
The new stuff doesn't actually outright replace anything though. They won't outright stop selling models while they still have stock.

>>54531429
Nigger there are very few faqs out. Go and look them up you autistic retard

>>54531834
What was wrong with them again?

>>54531787
It's not gonna be a replacement, it's gonna be a parallel unit at best, twice the selection, twice the potential sales, of do you think they'll scrap millions worth of injection molds?

>>54531821
i suppose i could also field a lieutenant to oversee the assassin - who then doesnt get to benefit from chapter tactics (big frickin' loss given that i am crimson fists). but i kinda wanted to avoid the chaptermaster/lieutenant cheese, even though it's powerful.

>>54531855
very inaccurate and time consuming to use when used often.

>>54531404
Wait what? Where is that said?

>>54531839
This.

"Small blast" remains a d6, "Large" blasts scale up to 2d6, apocalyptic another level.

Of course Orks remain fucked with BS 2

>>54531852
It doesn't technically replace it, but in actuality oldmarine sales are already plummeting for stuff that has Primaris versions. People see the new proportions next to their old models and can no longer stomach paying money for manlets. They might continue to play the models they've already put money and time into, painted up, made great stories with in past games, but there aren't a lot of new sales for old marines.

>>54531554
>Marines
>Sparse

>>54531871
My passtime takes to much time, i have to finish fast so I can go home and watch epic vimes.

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>>54531871
What do you mean by that?

>very inaccurate
In what sense?

> time consuming to use when used often
And I suppose this can be true for say, something like a Thudd Gun, but I would say on average blasts did not take that long to do honestly.

>>54531764
Oh I knew that, but I'm more likely to sit down and work it out with some 40k models and printed rules/data sheets instead of random ones from some other board game.
I'll use them as a test bed for painting too.

>>54531630
Admech is the newer army and thus has less options if you want to be purely Admech without some other Imperial units thrown in.

Daemons have a lot more variety and options depending on what you want to do, what gods you like, and what models you like. However, they just took the nerf bat hard up the Slaanesh hole and are a below average army currently, whereas AdMech is above average.

Note: This may change with the release of codexes and you should buy an army based on what you like the most anyways. The anon who suggested you look into Dark Mechanicum had a good idea. You could easily do both.

>>54531877
Worthwhile ork blast weapons were crewed by bs3 grots anyway.

>>54531885
Post numbers to back up your claims, no anecdotal evidence.
This is like that Taufag claiming that Tau are the most sold faction after marines.

>>54531767
But that's illegal in matched play.

I've been told that 8th is all about the alpha strike and getting 1st turn is a massive advantage. How true is that?

>>54531893
You have plenty of cultist and loyalist marine to test your painting in DV.

You can even use the marine one in DV as CSM or Fallen.

>>54531874
Games Workshop’s annual results came with the announcement that non-executive chairman Toby Kirby would retire from his role after the annual general meeting in September.
https://www.retailgazette.co.uk/blog/2017/07/games-workshop-sales-profit-skyrocket/

>>54531892
>Innacurate
Arguing over scatter direction and distance, arguing of what's in and not in. Really shitty with shitty opponents. Not bad, but kinda slow with good ones. I think losing templates was fine, but they probably could have included more "add 1d6 hits if the target has 10+ models" abilities.

>>54531888
I for one am glad I don't have to argue with literal autists and OCD tards about whether or not the fifth blast he's fired this turn hits two or three guardsmen anymore.

It was time consuming nonsense and you know it. I'm not entirely happy with how the current rules replacement works, but at least it means I can usually play two or three games per afternoon instead of just one.

>>54531903
Are you saying the supa kannon isn't worthwhile?

>>54531909
Different Anon, but I am close with the owner of my LGS and we have been talking about how the manlet stuff isn't selling anymore, while he has a mountain of Primaris orders.

And sure it's anecdotal but hey, I'm willing to bet it's like that in most places. Hell I've seen guard players start buying them, when I asked them they talked about wanting the true scale marines with their army.

Manlets are on the way out anon.

>>54531921
Your millage will vary massively on the meta of your area, but if you're concerned about 1st turn advantages just play ICT rules and instead of auto first turn for finishing deploying first you roll off and the first finished deployed player gets +1

>>54531932
I guess I'm just biased because I never had to deal with shitters.

>>54531931
>Scatter direction
There is a scatter die. It either moves where the arrow is pointing or its a direct hit.
>Scatter distance
Roll 2d6 minus BS (or full scatter if its one of the artillery pieces that doesn't need line of sight). It moves that far
>What's in and not in.
Is the template over the model? If so it gets hit. If not it doesn't get hit.
Literally no arguments to be made unlike tons of rules in 8th

>>54531956

Get back to me when you actually play games with people.

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>>54531931
See but there were other ways to do it. Like they could have easily just pulled an infinity and just make a template with 6 directions on it, you're roll corresponding to the direction.

It would have solved the problem and made the game easier, while not gimping blasts.

Pic very related.

Maybe I am just biased because I never wasted my time with shitters, cause why would you, it's a waste. Just my two cents.

Also what is this with the

>I can usually play two or three games per afternoon instead of just one
How is it better? I would rather have a more in depth game that lasts longer than an arcadey style game that is super simplified.

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>>54531921
In my experience first turn is a fucking huge advantage, especially if you can get into shooting range

>mfw blowing away 1/3 of an enemies army turn one

Fuck I feel bad. I need to nerf my guard lists.

>>54531969
Believe it or not but not everyone plays 40k against turbo autistic nerds who would argue endlessly about whether or not the very edge of a base is under the template or not.

>>54531545
>>54531536

Was this a Facebook question or something?

Seems like they must have straight up forgotten to include some units to turn round and say yes, they are still a viable option.

It's kind of like removing pariahs from the Necron codex and saying "Oh you can still use them, but you just use the old book entry!"

I know that's not the exact same thing, but just like the closest example I can think of from the top of my head.

I'm glad my marines are non-codex and when I get my book, they might be a little less rushed and not have mistakes, if this wasn't intentional.

>>54531956
>you got the angle from scatter the die wrong
>no I don't think it hits the edge of the base of my expensive heavy weapons guy, let's argue for ten minutes
>no you need to remeasure

Fuck. Off.

Personally I think blasts should have been one hit roll with the 1d6 etc being the number of extra autohits you score, a bit like flamers. Also cap flamer/blast number of hits to number of models in target squad.

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>>54531969
>I was a retard who played with autists and now i'm mad that I played with autists! Quick! Simplify the rules so I can play with autists! What? Just don't play with autists and just be casual in the game? I can't do that!

>>54531934
Well over here only the people that buy a handfull of units for a army they want to play, paint maybe half of it and never actually ever play a single game have bought Primaris marines. I haven't even seen a single one of those models in the flesh, because they don't come to the LGS to paint either. The only reason I know they paint models is because they sometimes post pics of one or two models they painted on the normiebook page meant for arranging games in the LGS.

This is exactly why anecdotal evidence means nothing. There were also tons of people claiming AoS was doing amazing and that it was outselling 40k when it was released, but the numbers did not support those claims at all.

>>54531986
It's your choice to play games with a the shallow end of the player-pool.

There's a reason they don't have any friends and no club will accept them.

Why do so many people want horde armies to be unfieldable again?

Are all the template fans IG tank players?

>>54531921
You will always go second if you are playing horde army. This is pretty bad for guard. I usually have 14+ units, but using squadrons and chimeras for all characters now i can have 8 units.

>>54531934
Direct reverse here, literally the only Primaris that sells is the boxed sets and the "not-quite contemptor", and our trade forums are swamped with the primaris halves.

>>54531993
Guess nobody should play at tournaments or in campaigns with predetermined opponents then.

>>54531969
I've played tons of games and almost never had an argument unlike 8th where the first game I played there were at least 3 arguments

>>54532010
Im not a template fan but blasts got fucked compared to flamers.

>>54532013
>Always
You can play horde with few 30 squads, you don't HAVE to field 12 10-mans

>>54532000
Choosing opponents doesn't help when it's in a tournament scenario. Calling judges over to check a template is dumb as fuck.

>>54531924
Yeah, good point , I will have if I can find it for a good price anyways

>>54531996
I mean I go to TTS, and that place is the most successful game store in Texas as of right now. (We got 100 starter sets, and ran out, ended up selling 180 I think or 200). So I feel like it is a bit better representation than where you live.

Primaris is booming here anon, atleast among the space marines it seems.

>>54531098
How do we make wyches good?

>>54531993
Not everyone has the luxury of only being able to play with cool people you fucking idiot.

If I don't want to playwith autists, I can never play in my lgs again, pretty much. You know tge kind of people this hobby attracts, so don't act like a retard and pretend everyone who plays is a reasonable, socially well adjusted person, because they're not and youdamn well know it.

>>54532024
What are you talking about.

>>54532028
The problem is that it isn't really an option for guard since conscripts can't take any heavy weapons, special weapons or anything at all really.

>>54532033
>Calling judges over to check a template is dumb as fuck.
It's what they are there for.

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>>54532019
>Goes to a tournament, cesspools known for having powering gaming asses
>Complains when there are power gaming asses

>>54532056

What would be considered 'good' to you?

>>54532056
Make them like fiend of slaanesh, no escape.

>>54532058
Find a group with non-autists?

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>Casual games only
How quickly would I get tabled with this army?
How fun would we have?

Gonna use 'Strike from the Shadows' on Hellblasters, put Scouts on objectives then alpha strike everything else

>>54532062
I too enjoy pausing my games for rule debates that involve outside parties every time a weapon fires, friend!

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>>54532056
Introducing the newest Aeldarky unit; Dyre Wyccans

>>54532074
Why are people having so much issue with the fact that you have to properly set up charges to get the most out of them ? Is moving or charging another unit behind the unit you charged so it can't run away really that hard of a concept to grasp ?

>>54531630
Daemons got gutted in 8th, they have no variety or options at all.

No idea how their codex will be but they're dogshit right now.

>>54532056
Bloodbrides are good.

>>54532058
>You know the kind of people this hobby attracts

Yes, I also know stores cater to newbies and people that can only get game with strangers because no-one will play them twice.

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>>54532087
> Is moving or charging another unit behind the unit you charged so it can't run away really that hard of a concept to grasp ?

I mean, most people on here couldn't even handle templates, so I wouldn't be surprised.

>>54532087
The benefit of wyches is supposed to be that you don't have to jump through hoops to keep something in combat. Especially something with fly that won't have that issue.

>>54532087
They were playing I roll dice and my giant yellow space robots shoot things for too long to know any better.

>>54532095
>no variety or options at all.
Don't play mono-god. There's your variety.

>>54532067
The worst kind of players are usually found outside tournaments. I know of a few people that are banned from entering tournaments because of their terrible sportsmanship, that roam GW stores to get games against unsuspecting new players.

>>54532095
>8th
>having no variety or options at all

That's not a daemon thing, that is an 8th ed thing anon.

>>54532114
>Don't play mono-god.
Sure let me just have my bloodletters aiding my daemonettes because they have no problems with eachother whatsoever right?

>>54532114
Do I use the purple fast close combat unit or the red one? So many decisions.

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>>54532126
Pretty much

>>54532130
Prefer the multiple rolls for each unit to find out what wargear they have exactly before each game ?

>>54532126
forces of different gods are known to cooperate at least for a time.

if someone is charging you from 9" and you have a flamethrower with 8" range, can you use it in overwatch?

>>54532148
Nope

>>54532117
>The worst kind of players are usually found outside tournaments

Seriously anon, you're going to make this argument? Like that is probably like, what, less than 1% of the people who play this game? Now I myself, have only met 2 people like this in my whole life of wargaming. 2 out of around 200ish players/people. Now, do they need to babify the rules for the 1% chance you run into an autist, and if you do, you know that sucks, but you shouldn't ruin all the depth of the rules, just because of one bad game.

You don't have any impact here anon, try a better argument.

>>54532141
I prefer the mastercrafted AP2 weapon for 10 points on my dude that always hits on 2s, yes. Why do you ask?

>>54532130
Moving the goalposts a bit. Bloodletters and Daemonettes are both assault troops but they operate very differently. Note, I'm not saying the Daemons Index is GOOD. Just that is has "variety" on par with many other forces when you consider all four gods as a whole.

>>54532107
Unless it's something that is guaranteed to work you should see it as a bonus that could come in handy, not the main gimmick that a unit has to rely on.
This, at least for me, includes terminator armour.

>>54532126
http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Brazen_Host

>>54532146
Doesn't mean you should do it just to make up for the lack of variety in the new edition. In 6th there was a table where there was a chance to screw over different aligned daemons to represent the fact that chaos isn't exactly a cohesive force. There was also opposing daemons had hatred for the other god's units.

>>54532083
>Goes to tourney
>Gets mad when people take it too seriously
>At a tournament

Maybe you guys are the assholes and that is why you can't find non autists to play with?

>>54532160
Trouble is that wyches aren't much good for anything else.

>>54532169
In the past Daemons had to go multi-god to do anything competitively. Bloodcrusher, etc. Tzeentch players were just spoiled by recent editions. Plus, you're arguing "Why isn't my army four full armies". Have some perspective please.

>>54532114
Do I want the 10 model purple slightly faster assault unit, the red slightly stronger assault unit, the green slightly tougher assault unit, or the pink... uh... well it's best not to speak of what happened to horrors in 8th.

>>54532192
>In the past Daemons had to go multi-god to do anything competitively
>competitive
Have you ever considered that some people just want to play the game for fun?

>>54531078
post full rules ?

>>54532192
>Competitive
>40k

No wonder you guys hated templates and armour facings

>>54531723
>>54532123
At least marines and guardsmen get the options of plasmas or flamers if they want to specialise. They were all about magic and wargear so 8th hit them the hardest.

Given nothing to compensate for it they ended up one of the weakest factions (bar tzeentch who's still a giant cunt, the proverbial 'tau' of the faction), I'm sure once they get half their options back in their codex they'll be great again though.

>>54531273

Well, until we get IG codex there is no reasons for them to actually be elysians, you can field a <AM> detachment and won't lose anything for doing so.

So grab 3 hellounds or variants, they are pretty decent.

>>54532169
yes it does. thats literally how deamons get their variety
monogod purposely has little variety.

>>54532154
Blasts don't add depth, they're just a novelty. For small, skirmish sized games there's nothing wrong with them. But for games like 40k where an army with 20+ blasts each shooting phase isn't even that outrageous they become way to much busywork. Last week, there was one game of 40k and one game of 30k, which still uses the 7th edition rules, going on at the simultaneously. In the time it took to resolve one player turn in 40k, they could not even finish the shooting phase of one player that had two multiple barrage units. And that was with zero arguments.

>>54531212
>Why is games workshop a bag of dicks.

The fucking idiot behind the site opened up a patreon. Soon as he started making money off it he opened himself up to GW's legal team bending him over. If he'd kept it non-profit that site would still be with us.

>>54532209
Fun is just a buzzword

>>54532169
Most incursions are multi-god and there of tons of mixed god pacts/warbands.

See >>54532163 for an example of a mixed slaanesh/khorn force.

>>54532192
>"Why isn't my army four full armies"
>Meanwhile codex space marines

>>54532233
They're Space Marines friend.

>>54532206
Why are you whining that faction is bad if you're unwilling to take the good options?
>HUR DUR THAT POST WASNT ME
read the reply chain before you jump in then, troll.

>>54532237
GW should drop the facade and rename 40k to Warhammer Space Marines.

What does a good Daemon list even look like these days? I've yet to see one unfortunately.

>>54532237
And? They all (mostly) use the same equipment and tactics.

>>54532218
Blasts do add depth, because it feels like you're actually launching something at someone. Now, it just feels like my basilisk is a lascannon that gets 1d6 shots, and doesn't need LoS. And that is retarded, and super boring.

Also see
>>54531970

>>54532258
Unfortunately, horror spam and untargitable daemon princes.

>>54531638
Like a frog in slowly boiling water

What's the cheapest way to buy? I've heard people mention recasters, but I can't find much on those.

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Is it a good or a bad idea to attach a storm bolter or heavy stubber on a Chimera?

>>54531376
Some transport wouldn't hurt...

>>54532217
>Daemon player complaining about how monogod has little variety
>Looks at ancient Thousand Sons army that basically has nothing but Rubricae, Sorcerers, and some tanks
>Doesn't see anything wrong with it

Variety for the sake of variety isn't good either

>>54532274
Except the frog is loving it

>>54532287
Or at least something to facilitate infantry relentlessly marching forward. The loss of scout moves and FNP sucks.

>>54532281
Search for the item you want on ebay and see what your friendly neighborhood Russian or Chinaman is selling. Buyer beware on that shit.

>>54532287
>Faction that produces all the vehicles for the rest of the Imperium
>Refuses to use them and has to walk everywhere

Whatever made GW think this makes sense ...

>>54531921
>>54531977

Varies greatly with your aplha capabilities

I had 1000 pt of sisters kill 800 pt of stuff on turn 1

It was breddy good

>>54531645
>>54531663
>>54531675
Ask not the Eldar a question

>>54531098
tfw no plastic elf gf

>>54532069
Worth their points

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I got 5 of these dudes coming in, whats the best loadout for them? Spears or sword and board?

>>54531559
>can take a heavy gatling and a normal gatling, plus 2 stormbolters and the rocket pod

this is basically just a double kheres contemptor with more wounds

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>>54532100
>13 points for 6+ T3 models

>>54532267
The random amount of shots now determines if the explosion was a hit or a near miss. You have to imagine all the non-blast weapons firing and hitting their targets as well, or do you want some plastic lines and pebbles to throw at the opponent's models as well ?

Game depth is having to make meaningfull decisions, not fiddling around with props.
>But muh blast placement
Having to choose between hitting the most models, or hitting fewer models is not a choice, that's just optimizing what something does. A choice between two things where one is obviously better than the other with no drawbacks is no choice at all.

>>54532302
Alright. Also, I really like Terminators. Between the armor design, the variety in weapons, everything about them. What's the best way to build an army around them?

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So /tg/ how viable is this 994pt list?

>>54532087
If im doing that why did I bring wyches s
At all?

>>54532359
Play Deathwing. Best terminators in the game.

>>54532342
But worth their points means different things to different people. There are still Eldar and Tau fags who are unsatisfied with a unit unless it can kill its own amount of points or more in a single shooting phase, and isn't easy to kill.

>>54532350
But then Str 5 kheres. And stormbolters.

500 point demo game list.

malignant plagecaster

17 pox walkers
7 plaguemarines, champion with plasmagun and power fist, 2 blight launchers, 4 vanilla, icon of despair
2 nurgle spawn

yes/no?

>>54532355
>The random amount of shots now determines if the explosion was a hit or a near miss.
Except that doesn't really work when the baneblade variant with the 10" blast that literally could not miss unless it went off the table only gets 2d6 shots hitting on 4 at best which if you can't tell, is absolute dogshit

>>54532373

>Gaunts in squads of 20

You went full retard, nigga

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>>54532375
Well maybe woman don't belong on the battlefield :^)

>>54532382
I want them able to do damage. Tying things up isn't as good as I can split fire in this edition freeing up a ton of actions.

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>>54532379

>Deathwing
>Best terminators in the game.

Yeah, keep telling yourself that.

>>54532379
I prefer Chaos to the Imperium - the Terminators I already have are all Chaos.

>>54532382
over twice the shots for -2 str, in a game mode where s5 wounds on 5+ at the worst

its not bad especially considering how easy it is for astartes to get rerolls to hit and wound from characters, depends on the cost i guess

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>>54532402
Wanna tell that to my Deathwing Knights faggot? Those 5++ saves aren't going to get you very far.

>>54532388
Blast weapons just need adjusting on a individual basis. For example, Missile Launchers had small blasts just like Plasma Cannons, and yet a frag missile is D6 shots whilst a plasma is only D3. Insanely large blast weapons should have a rule like 'this weapon always hits on a 2+' or something like that.

>>54532355
>Play guard
>Love artillery
>Siege shells are 36" range
>Want to shoot something further than that
>Enemy squad is in range, decide to shoot at them hoping the scatter sends it closer to what i actually wanted to hit.
>It does, wind must have blown it an extra few inches

Now in 8th ed:
>Out of range of what I wanted to shoot
>Oh well I'll just shoot this other closer squad
>Roll D6
>1 shot
>Roll a 3
>Shot misses


Which one sounds more in depth, which one allows for more options and variables.

>The random amount of shots now determines if the explosion was a hit or a near miss.
Then it should auto fucking hit, cause why do I roll for random shots, then roll to hit? How does that represent the shell?

Seriously wtf, nuke goes off. only 2d6 shots. roll double 1's, then 2's on the to hit.
Fucking never would happen in any other edition with actual blast templates, because the sizes scaled correctly.

Now we are in a weird limbo where basilisks and demo cannons are better at killing tanks than infantry, and this needs to be changed for the better.

>>54532388
Thats a balance problem not an issue with random hits as a system. Look at flamers, they demonstrate how it can work.

>>54532425
Or just add back templates

>>54532436
>guard
>out of range

you obviously dont love artillery enough to take the hilariously cheap basilisk battery

>>54532425
Or we could just use templates

>>54532408
Terminator sorceror cam drop in, warptime them up then they easily charge. I had fun with lightning claw termies doing this.

>>54532437
see
>>54532446

>>54532382
They do no damage at melee for a non all that cheap 9 points per lady. They die to a volley of lasguns.

They can't really kill 90 points worth of stuff cleanly. They probably would get murdered by 90 points of guardsmen.

>>54531406
Their reanimate and quantum shielding can be a huge hassle but they aren't that versitile so finding weak spots can be easy.

>>54532436
>Praying for dumb luck
>"This is depth"

Not saying blast weapons are perfect currently, just that blast makers were no longer the way to go with the size of the game.

>>54532453
>What are breacher shells

>>54532388
>>54532425
>>54532446

Small blast:
1 Autohit + 1 hit roll every 10 models in the target unit

Large blast / Template:
1 Autohit + 1 hit roll every 5 models in the target unit
Apo blast / Apo template
1 Autohit + 1 hit roll every 2 models in the target unit

>>54532469
>blast makers were no longer the way to go with the size of the game
>game is about the same size as it has been
what did he mean by this

>>54532459
That would be a large change to the system causing numerous issues rather than simply buffing blast weapons, which is easy and jusging by flamers will work well.

>>54532457
Is the Terminator Sorc just a build option from the regular Sorc? The only Sorcs I have currently are Exalts. Also, are Scarab Occult Terminators worth getting, if I'm running TSons anyways?

>>54532479
>game is about the same size as it has been
Perhaps he is speaking relative to 2nd ed? Before the last time the rules had a complete overhaul.

>>54532475
Needs numbers tweaked but I like it.