/CofD/ & /wodg/ Chronicles of Darkness and World of Darkness

>>54526201
The Winchesters and Hunter

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Decker. Probably the best example of an Acanthus mage specializing in Fate ever.

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So what clan would Dracula be from?

>>54526402
Requiem or Masquerade?

>>54526402
Rites of the Dragon implied Gangrel going by his powers. This fits pretty well with the powers he has in the original Stoker book, except for lack of Dominate.

>>54526418
Requiem of course this is the CofD general right?

>>54526481
No.

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>>54526450
>gangrel

Vampfags are getting pissssssssst

The truth of the matter is
>Mages can speedblitz better than Vampires
>Mages can use mental shenanigans better than Vampires
>Mages can defend themselves better than Vampires
>Mages have attacks that no Vampire can truly defend against

The lines were never meant to be equal
This was already confirmed by the devs

Mages, Mummies and Demons are far more "potent"(so sayeth DaveB) compared to the others, it's a no brainer.
Archmages are stronger(by miles) still.
>>54526299
>Wasn't it proposed in IM that an Archmage of Death was responsible for the Kindred Curse?
Yes. Seven dots is the 'Make your own splat' tier.

A weeaboo Seeker could make Princess: The Hopeful an actuality.
Lament in the possibilities.

>>54526540
>A weeaboo Seeker could make Princess: The Hopeful an actuality.
>Lament in the possibilities.

LALALALA I CAN'T HEAR YOU LALALALA

>>54526517
The alternative is he is a Ventrue that was Embraced with dots in Protean, which would be exceptional.

Count F*cking Dracula is also a Gangrel.

Of course he might just be clanless, which would make sense for a spontaneous divine Embrace.

>>54526481
Dracula in Requiem is a nigh mythical entity. He's either self embraced or an incredibly odd gambrel and was able to do miraculous things with the blood.

>>54526637
Eh. The text in Rites of the Dragon imply that he willed himself to live/be Embraced, and that Gangrel blood is what he imbibed as he lay dying with a vampire bleeding into his mouth.

>>54526637
Don't Vampires get access to out of clan disciplines if they feed from another vampire with a discipline they lack?

Not saying it's easy or a good idea but it's not impossible.

>>54526402
"What is a man!?"

>>54526402

He's a character in V:tM at least and he's Old Clan Tzimisce. in V:tR I don't know if he's stated, I think he's just kinda of mentioned vaguely.

>>54526731
>>54526402
In OWoD he's a Tzimisce. He tricked a 4th Gen into Embracing him, then staked and Diablerized him, becoming 4th Gen.

>>54526402
>>54526735
I'd imagine in VtR he's probably a Ventrue of the Ordo Dracul.

>>54526540
Mages are the strongest splat, Vampires are the weakest. If there's any fight that should be lopsided it's that one.

>>54526540
>>54526777
Says who? A retarded mage fag? Mages have to specialize in killing vamps when all a vamp needs is celebrity to kill a mage before he reacts or dominate to mindcontol them or majesty to make a mage a sex puppet.

>>54526822
>attempting to mind control and dominate a person whose most necessary and important stat is WILLPOWER
Even basic mages have to have a high willpower stat. God help you if you encounter a prime, mind, or fate specced mage.

>>54526822
Celerity isn't as effective as it was in OWoD(not that a smart mage couldn't counter it)
Mage Armor is reflexive. By the time the Vampire failed to ambush the wizard, it will be far too late for him.

Question yourself though. Why does any of this matter? It's not like you need Mages in your Chronicle(s).

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>>54526822

>>54526822
>Mages have to specialize in killing vamps

They really don't.

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>>54526872
>Le every mage has prep time and access to all 10 arcana.
When will this meme end?

>>54526953
>Vampires are only take aggravated damage from fire, sunlight, and werewolf fangs
Sure thing mage fag

>>54526962
>Implying a Mage needs more than one Arcanum to utterly annihilate a Vampire
>Implying prep is even necessary after a certain point

When will this meme end?

>>54526861
A single +1 to contest Dominate is probably not going to make the difference too often.

>>54526962
I figure never. Because White Rooms are fun. That being said, other splats tend to do it too, but the breadth of their powers tends to be smaller so the White Rooms are too.

>>54526962
Mage armor is gained at 2nd dot for each arcana you have, and all arcane have a form of mage armor, except prime which has antimagic armor. Reflexive means you do not need prep time at all, it activates when you are attacked, period.

You are literally mistaking a meme for something that is basic in the book, demonstrating astounding ignorance.

>>54526984
Four dots in an Arcana is Aggravated damage, anon.

>>54526822
Mage armor is reflexive. Mental Shield is only a Mind 2 spell. That's if the vampire even gets close enough to use the Disciplines.

>>54527030
For humans not Vampires
>>54526992
That is bullshit but I bet DaveMagefagB would put that kind if shit in

>>54526822
Is that you Eolirin? Wanking Celerity to its limit again?

>>54526962
Who said anything about infinite prep time and all ten Arcana?

>>54527030
And if the vampire has Dominate there is a good chance he also has Resilience. So?

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>>54527046
>being able to move so fast it looks like teleportation is wanking
>>54527048
Every mage fag

>>54527041
No, it works for Vampires as well as humans.

By that logic Unmaking shouldn't work on the Kindred either.

>>54527095
>Every mage fag
Where?

>vampire vs mages
It's almost nostalgic.

We all fucking know that an average combat demon would wipe the floor with anything bar an archmage or newly awakened mummy and even a new mummy would get bodied by going loud.

>>54527144
Demons are on par with Mages and Mummies.

The three strongest splats.

Objectively best ranking system for crossover purposes

God Tier
>Archmage

Top Tier
>Prep Mage
>Loud Demon
>Fresh Mummy

Middle Tier
>Mage
>Demon
>Sin-Eater
>Mummy
>Beast
>Werewolf
>Changeling

Lower Tier
>Promethean
>Vampire
>Surprised Mage
>Prep Hunter
>Hunter

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>>54527215
A normal demon can wrek a normal mage my friend

>>54527215
Surprised Mage should be above vampire. Mage Armor is reflexive and getting off even one spell can be enough to shift the odds.

>>54527253
If the Mage is Disciple and lower? Sure.

Adept and above? No.

>>54526201
What splat would the Judge from Blood Meridian be?

>>54527253
>>54527280
Masters seem unbeatable in 1v1 situations if they know what they're doing.

It's nearly impossible to defend against an Unmaking Rote considering the ludicrous chances Masters have of acquiring Exceptional Successes.

>>54527261
This is true

>>54527303
Demons can just use the exploit that allows them to copy any other splats abillity and use it to humans the mage.

>>54527373
I've never heard of that. Can you describe the exploit?

>>54527373
That's not going to deter the mass versatility of an Adept / Master though.

It's a great advantage, but not enough to win out.

>>54527373
That's not as great of a boon as you would think. At least not when used against a Mage. It would copy a spell, not an entire Arcana.

You're also forgetting that an ES Unmaking 'Finger o' Doom' Rote is going to make short work of the renegade Demon.
Not unless it has some occult method of countermagic.

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All we have to do is summon the /x/fag and discuss how he shitposts and I'll have bingo

>>54527460
Your shitty posts counts as a meta discussion doesn't it?

>>54527253
>A normal demon can wrek a normal mage my friend
Nah, the demon would have to go Loud to win.

Pray to God(Machine) that the Mage doesn't know exactly what you're capable of, or else you're essentially fighting a prep Mage.

>>54527460
Actually all you would need is /x/fag. The bingo chart qualifies as meta discussion about how stupid we are.

What is wrong with the Changing Breeds book for CofD?

So... has anyone ever actually had any inter-splat conflict in their games? How did it turn out?

>>54527303
>>54527451
Unmaking is Withstood

You explicitly can defend against it

>>54527577
Bestiality is illegal, anon.

>>54527604
A prepared Master can roll up on you with dedicated exceptional successes. It's tough to beat their pool with a shitty splat like Vamp.

>>54527640
That doesn't mean anything. It's still Withstood.

>>54527537
>>54527555
True but I also feel like that would be cheating.

>>54527604
>>54527658
You're about to stumble upon a horrifying Truth

>>54527658
He said almost impossible, not completely impossible. I mean, conceivably you could generate the perfect Vampire for not getting Unmade. But at that point how dangerous are you if all your merits and Disciplines are there to defend yourself from instant effects?

>>54527658
Exceptional Successes completely bypass Withstand

>>54527681
But it wouldn't it be like, extra meta?

>>54527658
>It's still Withstood.
It's not.

>>54527743
Yeah but then it might as well be a free space.

Mages aren't overpowered within their own game

I don't understand why you people want to hate on the game just because of petty crossover drivel.
Crossover isn't focal, why does any of this matter?

>>54527853
It's bias. I pray to god that the Devs don't take the opinions of this place to heart. Everyone here is a white-room whoring mongrel. Not just the Mage players.

Worse yet that Dave has actually mentioned beforehand that he -hates- white-room discussions with a passion. No doubt the other writers do as well.

>>54527853
Setting consistency.

To quote a post in the previous thread:

>Right, so what about all these vampire conspiracies? Just existing on sufferance of the Awakened? Why would mages tolerate these instead of dismantling them at every opportunity?
>The only explanation is that vampires are threatening enough that the Pentacle and Seers usually decide to let sleeping leeches lie and focus on each other.

>>54527853
>I don't understand why you people want to hate on the game just because of petty crossover drivel.
>Crossover isn't focal, why does any of this matter?

Vampire is all about the revenge fantasies of the goths and other social outcasts. It's intolerable if the nerds (i.e., mages) can still shit all over the new popular and powerful vampires as established canon in the setting.

It's little more than displaced bitterness and envy. There's a reason why you don't see the hyperbolic reactions from Werewolf fans (jocks) and Changelings (abuse survivors).

>>54527917
>I pray to god that the Devs don't take the opinions of this place to heart

They're not idiots. They have their own circle of other writers to count on. At this point I gather that Dave and his peers only come here to laugh. Not that any of this is funny.

>>54527927
Mages are too lofty to really exterminate Kindred society, IMO

They might even help keep things under wraps.

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>>54527917

>Dave's Sarcastic Wisdom

>Praise the Komodo Lord
>Pray that he one day writes for Hunter, so it may no longer be the bastard stepchild of the CofD

>>54527978
Hunter is actually really good though.

>>54528018
It's arguably the best-put-together gameline. It certainly hasn't had as much negative tampering as some of the others have.

>>54527978
>The one setting I know of that Dave flat out stated his complete dislike for
I dream of a Demon supplement, all the themes of that game are straight up his alley by the looks of it, Broken Diamond event started with a Mage version of the Moscow Rules

>>54527977
Some want to experiment on them or become them. Tremere was a Mage, after all.

>>54527977

More importantly, why would most mages want to spend the time and resources to eradicate vampires (or much anything else).

Mages are most certainly not superheroes. They are obsessive, narcissistic and privileged jerks. Unless vampire were part of an individual mage's investigation of a Mystery or interfered with its pursuit, the comings and goings of the undead are of little concern to the WIse. If an individual vampire is a nuisance, they might be eliminated (or worse, "studied"), but genocide would be a rare Awakened motivation, largely curbed by Mage society.

Mages also have their own VERY powerful antagonists to deal with. More often than not, vampires (and werewolves, changelings, etc.) are not a mage's supernal radar.

>>54527927
Waste of easy mysteries. If you dismantle them, then you can't study them in their natural habitat. And if you want to dissect one, well, easier to just grab a free-ranging leech then try and keep one on ice until you get around to it.

>>54528086
>Destroy the Followers of the Lie! Leeches are no better than Seers
>Challenge is Magical! Swear Oaths to protect Sleepers
Cryptopolies to raise Sleepers to greatness vs. vampire blood cults
>Seers wanting more of that neat mundane power and influence vampire conspiracies are hogging

>>54528046
What tampering are you thinking of in other lines?

>>54528018
>Hunter is actually really good though.

It's not so much about whether Hunter is "good" or "bad," but rather that it interacts poorly with every other gameline.

Hunter ostensibly should be the quintessential crossover game, yet Hunters rarely stand any hope of actually successfully hunting most other major splats. To the consternation of many Hunter fans, the response to this complaint is just to focus on the "alternative" "lesser" monsters created with the Hunter core rules and not use the other gamelies. If a Hunter cannot actually hunt "real" vampires, werewolves, etc., in the CofD, I can understand the frustration and ignominy of the fans. I don't know how Hunter 2e will solve this problem, absent no longer making most Hunters normal humans, and thus changing the fundamentals of the setting.

>>54527927
Why would Mages even care about what vampires do? I'm sure some make a point of researching them and have them as Obsessions, but not to the point that vampires would be endangered. Most would probably lose interest when it becomes apparent that vampires aren't Supernal in nature at all.

>>54528224
Most Mysteries aren't Supernal in nature.

>>54528218
The only hunters that can't throw down with the other splats are shit hunters that don't know how to operate operationally.

>>54528279
Even top condition hunters can't throw down with certain splats, anon.

>>54528224
Mages are mostly about Obsessions and all that, sure. But all of the Orders are actually framed in ways that seem to care an awful lot about the Fallen World and what goes on in it.

If they had wanted to highlight the Obsession and hubris more Mages should have social splats that reflect that, instead theirs are actually are ways to tie them into the Fallen World.

The only Order that has little to no interest in the Fallen World are the Mysterium.

>>54528206
It doesn't have a 2e version, for one.

>>54528295
I apologise for that horribly butchered post. I seriously need to sleep.

>>54528293
Which splats?

>>54528327
Most

Actually, probably all of them.

>>54528327
And why?

>>54528179
>Leeches are no better than Seers

That's debatable.

Vampires may certainly be oppressive and tyrannical during the course of their requiems, but Seers actively serve the very symbols of tyranny and oppression, and have the supernal power to carry out the will of the Exarchs well beyond the capabilities of most animated corpses with delusions of grandeur.

Simply, vampires are rank amateurs compared to any accomplished Seer, and the resources of the Pentacle are best devoted to fighting the true followers of the Exarchs, and not some uppity leeches.

>>54528358
Actually, the vampire problem, and how similar they are/can be to the Seers, comes up in both the Free Council and Seers of the Throne books...

>>54528293
Aside from higher tier Mages. Every other splat can be dealt with via enough thermite, other high explosives and /k/ommando grade autism.

>TFW the DE2 Kickstarters is doing so poorly that we may not see a Camelot, Gilgamesh or Jazz Age era.

>RichT is killing the CofD, and our only hope is the edgy abomination that is SwedeDracula.
>We are doomed!

>>54528340
Hunter antagonists are watered down knock-offs of other splats which are not as capable. This is kind of puzzling for splats like werewolves and vampires which have fluff saying extended open conflict with mortal humans would end badly for them.

>>54528447
Well, visiting this thread almost makes me welcome the CofD dying, so that is the silver lining.

>>54528414

It's precisely that type of thinking, that powerful supernatural creatures can all be killed with little more than enough explosives, that result in the needless deaths or worse of innumerable Hunters and amuse countless denizens of the CofD.

Many a major splat member are not easily surprised, nor susceptible brute force (e.g., any mage or cabal with as little as Fate 2 and Forces 2).

>>54528476
>makes me welcome the CofD dying,

You'll miss us when we're gone.

>Shadowrun Supremacy!

So...

What's the going loud option for Mages again?

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>>54528603
>What's the going loud option for Mages again?

There isn't, nor is there any need. Mages just risk more Reach for greater effect, and it's more than sufficient.

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why are mages so stronk

Feedback requested on new NPC:

http://forum.theonyxpath.com/forum/main-category/main-forum/the-new-world-of-darkness/1120200-new-horror-little-morpheus

>>54528656
Because you touch yourself at night

>>54528656
Because they have perhaps the most interesting power system in all of tabletop RPGs, but WW/OP developers never thought it would be cool to give a similar flexibility, within thematic limits, to other splats.

>>54528705
>Because you touch yourself at night

Chronicles of Blindness ?

>>54528752
Funny that, one CAN actually go blind from sexual activity.

>>54526753
Statted out, he's actually sixth gen.

>>54528766

LIIIIIIIIEEEEEEEEEESSSSSSSSS

This place can truly become cancerous at times

>>54528743
Wouldn't it have been cool if Changeling Contracts were more freeform? Imagine having to wheel and deal with the embodiments of concepts or objects with leverage based on your status (Wyrd).

>>54528976
I'd argue that both Demons and Changelings are right behind Mages in terms of 'muh freedom'

>>54529068
And all it takes is a dickhead Mage with Fate 4 to ruin all that freedom.

Yes, I'm a Magefag. I have to come in here and boast about something completely irrelevant.

Rule question - what skill for "magic tricks", cards and rabbits out of hats and what not.

>>54529157
Larceny, I would think.

>>54528603
>>54528643
Going SS3 with a mix of Life Mind and Time is a "Going Loud" option too.

>>54529157

Classic WOD or Chronicles of Darkness?

Reminder that celebrity can cuck mages before tjey can even react

>>54529205
I fail to see how being famous would help you kill a mage.

>>54529205
>Reminder that celebrity can cuck mages before tjey can even react

>low quality bait

>>54529223
>the truth
>must be bait

Mad magefag

>>54529217
>I fail to see how being famous would help you kill a mage.

Paparazzi serve the Lie!

Why do you all fight so much over what is canon? You do realize you can just ignore it in your games and do whatever you want right?

>>54529223
bait or not, anon isn't incorrect. Celerity can act before you can. It only takes a knife to the throat to kill a Mage.

>>54529283
Time 1

>>54529280
No. You don't understand. DaveB is a god. His word is practically gospel around these parts.

Convert to the Church of the Komodo now

>>54529283
Acceleration is an all around superior Celerity if you cheese it enough.

You also seem to be forgetting (intentionally?) about Mage Armor.
Prepared kinetic shields being an even better alternative.

>>54529293
>Time 1

or Fate, Mind, Forces, Space...

And don't forget about *reflexive* Mage Armor.

This argument is old and unproductive.

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>>54529330

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Bow down before your master.

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>>54529368

>OPP pissed off the single Mummy fan out ther

>>54529398
jakki? is that you?

http://theonyxpath.com/dark-eras-poll/

>Britain in the lead
>666 votes
>Satan is upon us

>>54529443
I will be legit pissed if Gilgamesh takes it

How are people not voting for Jazz?

>>54529068
True. That's why I like Changeling so much. It strikes a good balance between mechanical freedom (and fairly well-written rules) and a low-ish power setting at low Wyrd.

I can have people be creative and solve things with their powers sometimes but still struggle with real-life issues too.

>>54529181
Chronicles, for a blood and smoke vampire game specifically

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>>54528414
Actual /k/ommando here! I did eight years as a paratrooper with multiple combat deployments to Iraq and Afghanistan.

Ask me how I'd kill your favorite splat!

>>54529511
>I will be legit pissed if Gilgamesh takes it
>How are people not voting for Jazz?

How can one anon be so wrong?!?!

>>54529707
How would you kill a Wraith?

>>54529707
How would I kill an Archmage?

>>54529807
Unironically you should meme him to death. Enough Sleepers repeating a meme causes permanent changes in the Supernal. This is kinda-sorta how rationalism works.

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>>54529745
This one has me stumped. A risen, though, can't be killed. Only contained. Therefore, you inflict enough physical trauma to get it out of the fight and that's when the chains and cement mixer come into play.

Up to that point, 12 or 20 gauge slug is your friend as either of those will take limbs off at the joint and push organs out of exit wounds. Load wax rounds for that reverse granulation goodness.

https://youtu.be/A_966NVdjoI

If you're really paranoid, use a Saiga 12, basically an AK Shotgun for quick reloads and carrying capacity.

>>54529807
You don't.

>>54529914
2spooky4me magic bullets are the answer for a Wraith.
And Saiga's are fucking amazing. Can't speak of the combat capabilities of them but as far as a "Go out innawoods, chill and make targets not exist anymore" it's 10/10

Do ya like jazz, /wodg/?

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Remember who the best waifu is /wodg/. Be the Senpai to notice her.

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>>54529965
I'm going on the theory that I would have no access to 3spooky6me munitions.

>tfw I like mummy but it has too much baggage.
I don't get why they had to BE tied to judges. The loss of agency just makes the game rather narrow.

>>54529965
And it's a semi-automatic shotgun that feeds from detachable magazines? What's not to love?

Slap a muzzle brake on that shit if you're worried.

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>>54520760 (You)
Do you recommend V20 Lore of the Clans?

I do. If you're thinking of playing VtM, I definitely recommend picking it up, along with V20 Lore of the Bloodlines.

It has loads of interesting lore, and features cool new player concepts, combo-disciplines, Elder disciplines, merits and flaws specialised to each of the main clans (and a good chunk of the bloodlines). It also details several Paths of Enlightenment belonging to these clans and bloodlines.

I mean, the book doesn't really offer anything AMAAAAAZING in terms of the metaplot, but that's not what it's supposed to do either. It's just a book that's useful for anyone looking to expand their knowledge on VtM lore.

So yeah, I heartily recommend you pick up V20 Lore of the Clans and V20 Lore of the Bloodlines. It's really good, in my opinion.

>>54530512

Whoops, was meaning to reply to this anon:

>>54521287
>Do you recommend V20 Lore of the Clans?

>>54529283
having 11 armor means a knife isnt going to do jack shit

>>54529283
Mage Armor is a reflexive action now.

>>54530819
>having 11 armor means a knife isnt going to do jack shit

How do you get 11 Mage Armor as the various armors do not stack?

>>54530869
Mage armor stacks with mundane and/or enhanced armor. If you think that's bullshit let me remind you of the Forces 2 kinetic energy bubble.

>>54530819
Its going to do 1 bashing. Thanks CofD.

>>54529424

she's moved on to better things, anon

let go

>>54530869
Matter 3 = tshirt with 11 armour after ritual casting

According to Hurt locker, it doesnt even do 1 bashing if it hits.

>>54530938
>Mage armor stacks with mundane and/or enhanced armor

Then it's not 11 Mage Armor, with different implications, advantages and disadvantages.

As for Forces 2, it doing precisely what it was designed and intended to do without min/maxing powergaming nonsense.

>>54531009
um yes it is faggot, you give a tshirt 10 armour and use matter mage armor and you get over 10 armor

do you even know the rules ?

>>54531009
Also faggot, i didnt even say 11 mage armour.

You were the one asking how you get it from stacking mage armour that you acnt even do.

#magetanksupermacy

>>54531009
>As for Forces 2, it doing precisely what it was designed and intended to do without min/maxing powergaming nonsense.
I have no idea what you just said.

>>54530977
>she

>>54527603
my party of vampires captured an archmage, gouged out his eyes, cut off his hands and tongue and buttfucked him to death

>>54528218
None of the World of Darkness games are crossover games. When will people get that through their fucking heads? None of them are designed to mix - when they do, it is by coincidence of having the same base rules and happenstance, not a concentrated effort on the part of the development team.

Hunter, as such, is a *fantastic* game. That it doesn't mix well with the other monster splats is not an issue. It has its own monster supplements that are actually quite good, and the base World of Darkness material also has some great stuff too.

>>54528358
Why are you posting in character in /tg/? You look like someone who can't separate himself from a fucking RPG character - that's pretty off.

>>54531371
or they all suffered a mass magical delusion thinking that is what they did. Poor bastards would never know any different.

>>54531371
Is that before or after he reflexively vanished back into his golden road?

>>54531398
he was the last of his kind too
now the world of darkness can live in peace, free from ür-faggotry

>>54529975
I do but I don't give a crap about "Jazz Age" dark era

>>54531420
Same. Roaring 20s WoD sounds cool but I really don't have any hopes for OPP to make it not be shit.

>>54531463
or be out by 2030

Do you think the type of Jazz used by a Jazz Mage would be affected by their Path?

> Jazz Hands serve the Lie

>>54529511
Jazz is pretty much just modern with a little bit of reskin.

Arthur is not that different from dark ages.

Gilgamesh offers something radically new.

>>54529998
tfw her Ochema's Ban is subservient behavior to a "virginal" mage who never risked paradox in his life and her Bane is the painful sting of rejection by such pure example of true reality.

>>54531371
Sounds like that Archmage had some weird fetishes.

>>54531388
There was nothing in character about that post.

>>54531705
>Bane is the painful sting of rejection by such pure example of true reality.
So when she holds hands with him?

Daily reminder that hedge mages and sorcerers are thematically and aesthetically vastly superior to bullshit mages

>>54531884
>low quality bait

>>54531884
>hedge mages and sorcerers are vastly superior

... for target practice, abuse and as meals for various monsters of the CofD

>>54531949
>>54531940
you should stop obsessing about powerlevels and start learning reading comprehension

>>54531884
How? In other campaigns, sure. Mages are too strong. But in the setting overall?

>>54532035
Ironically power levels are the main complaint people levy against Mage.

>>54532093
Oh, you don't actually know what "thematically" and "aesthetically" mean, is that it ?
How quaint.

>>54531779
Not if you spend a willpower point. After such resolute sacrifice you can be together for a whole scene. It's what a true Senpai would do.

>>54532131
For the sake of argument, let's say I don't and that I'm unable to google word definitions. What do you mean?

>>54532138
Isn't she your senpai?

>>54527215
Actual best ranking for crossover:

God Tier
>Archmage

Top Tier
>Prep Mage
>Loud Demon

Very Good Tier
>Mage
>Demon

High Tier
>Surprised Mage
>Fresh Mummy

Alright Tier
>Sin-Eater
>Mummy
>Beast
>Werewolf
>Changeling
>Prep Hunter

Not Good Tier
>Hunter

Bad Tier
>Promethean

Trash Can Tier
>Vampire

>>54532155
I'm not the same anon. Also, a figure of speech.

I have a question.

...is it actually possible to throw a surprise birthday party for a Mage with Prep Time?

>>54532201
Throwing a surprise birthday party for a normal person is difficult, and can even be dangerous, anon.

Trying to do that to one of the most paranoid and powerful splats is an exercise in absurdity.

>>54532219
>Trying to do that to one of the most paranoid and powerful splats is an exercise in absurdity.
Unless the Mage is a Thyrsus, in which case they'd probably enjoy a wild party.

Of course the other Paths might have different reactions, though.

>>54532201
Depends on where you throw it. At his Sanctum? Not happening. The best way is to have it at the Sanctum of someone he trusts under a plausible pretense.

>>54532149
Since that was a quip and I know you know the meaning of these words, I'll just explain what I meant :

>thematically
It's inherently more satisfying to play characters with hard limits, that have to work to obtain what they want, but still posess the potential for incredible power and to transcend thoses limits through their own power of will, than to play someone that's just been imbued from birth with unlimited power and that basically just "levels up" in power by playing supernal detective.
Sorcerers are a lot less entitled and a lot more connected to humanity, and usually cannot erase what they don't like from reality. This gives consequences to actions and a moral weight to the intrigues they face.

>aesthetically
Snapping your fingers (or just thinking about it) and turning people into lawnchairs isn't interesting or challenging, it doesn't evoke any mystical tradition and it doesn't look cool
Imbuing fetishes with dangerous spells, making pacts with devils and outsmarting them, secret societies with lots of dzcorum and week-long rituals are (in my opinion) much more pleasant to roleplay and set up

There's a sense of the unknown and the truly mysterious with human wizards and shamans that far outshines the compulsive need of mages to explain everything to death
Mages never want to deal with what they don't understand and can basically avoid any challenge posed to them, while a sorcerer's very essence is challenging himself, dabbling with the unkown at great risk and for great reward
In the context of a game, it's funnier to be frail and ill-prepared than to be in full control of the situation and to have the assurance you'll come out on top no matter what

>>54532291
Or at a restaurant during some kind of "business" lunch. Have the staff come out and do the whole happy birthday bit.

>>54527014
>it activates when you are attacked, period.
Not really. For instance it won't help you against sniper. If you can't see it coming before it hits you, you can't activate it.

>>54526984
>Vampires are only take aggravated damage from fire, sunlight, and werewolf fangs
You are generally correct with fire and sunlight, but dunno where you came up with werewolf fangs, they explicitly cause lethal to vampires (aggravated damage by woofs to vamps is myth that yiff fags spread)
And you forget little detail:
>Few rare perversions of nature — Disciplines, Devotions, and sorceries — cause aggravated wounds to Kindred.
>sorceries
I wonder what is the funny thing that mages do called...

>>54532378
>Mages don't work for their magic(k)? Are you serious? They work harder than sorcerers and risk so much more

Spamming a bunch of mage armour spells until you have enough beats to rival god isn't hard faggot.

>>54532300
>It's inherently more satisfying to play characters with hard limits
Mages have limits. You're apparently too clouded to see this.
>that have to work to obtain what they want
Mages don't work for their magic(k)? Are you serious? They work harder than sorcerers and risk so much more.
>Sorcerers are a lot less entitled and a lot more connected to humanity
I'd argue Mages are more connected to humanity. Actually I'm certain they are. That's kind of the point with Ascension, less so with Awakening.
>This gives consequences to actions and a moral weight to the intrigues they face.
Mages don't suffer consequences? I'm starting to doubt you.

>Snapping your fingers (or just thinking about it) and turning people into lawnchairs isn't interesting or challenging
Can only be done reliably (I'm assuming you're still talking Ascension here) at later periods.
>it doesn't evoke any mystical tradition and it doesn't look cool
But it does evoke mystical traditions, so much more than you realise. Paradigm is a very importing and focal. You can't just ditch it.
>Imbuing fetishes with dangerous spells, making pacts with devils and outsmarting them, secret societies with lots of dzcorum and week-long rituals are (in my opinion) much more pleasant to roleplay and set up
This is ripe for Mage. Why can't you see this?

>There's a sense of the unknown and the truly mysterious with human wizards and shamans that far outshines the compulsive need of mages to explain everything to death
>Mages never want to deal with what they don't understand and can basically avoid any challenge posed to them, while a sorcerer's very essence is challenging himself, dabbling with the unkown at great risk and for great reward
>In the context of a game, it's funnier to be frail and ill-prepared than to be in full control of the situation and to have the assurance you'll come out on top no matter what
I'm truly at a loss here. I'm convinced you haven't even touched a Mage supplement.

>>54532300
>It's inherently more satisfying to play characters with hard limits
That's your opinion.

>that have to work to obtain what they want
Mages do have to work to obtain what they want. Not every Mage has a spell for every problem. Awakened magic isn't an instant win button, contrary to what some people seem to think.

>but still posess the potential for incredible power and to transcend thoses limits through their own power of will
This is literally what Mages do. They aren't "imbued from birth with unlimited power". They're born a human, they Awaken to the POTENTIAL for unlimited power, but they don't have it, and chances are they won't ever even reach Archmastery.

>that basically just "levels up" in power by playing supernal detective
Mages learn magic like any other subject, I'm pretty sure. The only thing I think they might not have to be taught is their Ruling Arcana, but compare that to other things like Rotes, High Speech, common Arcana, and Legacies. All things that they have to learn.

>Sorcerers are a lot less entitled and a lot more connected to humanity
Mages are still connected to humanity. The contrast of Sleeper life vs Awakened life is important, and it isn't until you reach high Gnosis that you start actually becoming detached because of magic.

>usually cannot erase what they don't like from reality
Mages can't do this either, unless the one or two Arcana they have Mastery in pertain directly to the problem. Acanthus can rewind Time, sure, but it actually fits with their themes. They're the Fools, people who teeter on the edge and don't care much for thought out decisions and consequences, which sets up their Hubris. They don't have to worry about consequences and plans, right up to the moment that they do.

>This gives consequences to actions and a moral weight to the intrigues they face.
Mage is all about consequences of actions and moral weight. It's literally what the entire Wisdom thing is about.

1/2

>>54532393
Apologies, my OCD forced me to correct something. Please refer to >>54532406

I'm also talking Ascension here.
Not Awakening.

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>>54532300
Mage isn't for you. Or maybe it is. You just seem to lack a good chunk of what defines it, both old and new.

I suggest you take a gander at something before you spew nonsense you know nothing about.

Here, have a cute cup of coffee to settle that ignorance of yours.

>>54532300

2/2
>Snapping your fingers (or just thinking about it) and turning people into lawnchairs isn't interesting or challenging, it doesn't evoke any mystical tradition and it doesn't look cool
Building a raw Imago is literally the bare minimum a Mage can do to cast a spell. It's not ALL they do. Magical tools, rituals, yantras, High Speech (incantations, basically), rotes, all things they can and do use and are encouraged to use to flavor characters and give bonuses.

>Imbuing fetishes with dangerous spells
Mages do imbue items with spells and enchantments and craft fetishes to bind spirits and use their powers.

>making pacts with devils and outsmarting them
They do this.

>secret societies with lots of dzcorum and week-long rituals
They have these.

>There's a sense of the unknown and the truly mysterious with human wizards and shamans that far outshines the compulsive need of mages to explain everything to death
Mages are human wizards and shamans, and they don't explain everything to death. They pursue the unknown and mysterious.

>Mages never want to deal with what they don't understand
They literally do, all the time. They aren't Mysteries if you understand them.


>can basically avoid any challenge posed to them,
Not always. Like I said earlier, not every Mage has every spell for every problem.

>while a sorcerer's very essence is challenging himself, dabbling with the unkown at great risk and for great reward
What are Mastigos?

How much of Mage have you actually read?

>>54532483
>Shitposters
>reading
Anon pls

>>54527215
prep hunter would be middle tier.

what is wrong with magefags and their patholigical need to fill all possibles spaces in the WoD ?
>literally arguing that you're just as weak as human sorcs just so you can be in that too
pathetic

>>54532572
Who said anything about them being as weak as sorcerers? Are you not even trying anymore?

>>54528358
>thinking it would take effort to kill a significant portion of the vampire population
>thinking that vampires don't serve the seers

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>>54532300

Why do sorcerers even exist if they're practically the same as mages only weaker?

>>54532744
Sorcerers are the most common form of magic practitioners in the OWoD setting.
They make up the majority of the Traditions, with Mages being a minority.

That's all it is.

If they never manage to Awaken and are hailed as 'eternal children' they can always convert to Vampirism and reap the benefits of Kindred sorcery.
But there is far more to gain with true magic(k) than blood magic.

>>54532798
Is there no third path to take for a sorcerer? What if I don't want to be a mary sue wizard or a faggot vampire?

>>54532827
Just be a normal guy and ignore supernatural shit, I suppose.

>>54532827
read Second Sight

>>54532896
What's that?

>>54532961
the sequel to first sight

if he says read it, its a fucking book then innit?

>>54532961
>the sequel to first sight
kek

and yes, it is a book
develops how to make hedge wizards, shamans, psychics, etc ... on a human level and not like mary sues
Immortals is pretty good to pair with, depending on what you're looking for

>>54532896
>>54532968
>>54532999
Oh, I was talking OWoD, not CofD.

>>54533013
>oWoD
sucks to have shit taste

>>54533023
really need an other thread for oWoD faggots to go talk in

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>>54532827
Join the Technocracy
You get mind bullets and lasguns

>>54533023
>>54533103
Delusional babies I see. The only splat that is better in nwod than in owod is Werewolf the forsaken.

>>54533180
The entire Cofd system is better, argue otherwise i dare you.

>>54533205
>people play world of darkness for the rules
LOL

>>54533180
>WtF
literally the only thing worse than MtA
yes, Beast is above your shit splats

>>54533315
Which side are you on faggot?

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>>54533315
I pity your objectively shit taste, Anon.

>>54533336
nWoD > oWoD
Also
DtD; VtR; CtL; MtC; HtV > GtSE; PtC; > playing with literal dogshit and getting some in your mouth > WtF; MtAw

>>54533425
And BtP with Geist and Prommie

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>>54533425

>>54533494
I mean, I guess it could go reverse, if you were a furry manchild with no taste

>>54526675
Secrets of the Covenants implies that he was a Revenant that was taken under the wing of his three "Brides"

What are ways you could attack with Matter?

>>54533955
Water/earth/air bending. Changing air in enemy's lungs into sarin. Create gigantic rock just above enemy's head.

>>54533955
Which setting?

>>54534120
>Create gigantic rock just above enemy's head.
"For my next trick, anvils."

>>54534141
>Which setting?
Awakening.

And nice reference.

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Theoretically if someone were to develop a blood subistute and sell it commercially how would that affect Vampires in masquerade and in requiem?

>>54534286
The first question that would have to ask is "Can vampires actually drink this?"

If no well then that's a very short argument.

If yes...well they should be fine, unless it's still considered to be on the level of a specific type of blood for the purposes of Blood Potency, then this is not fine if you have reached the level where you can't feed on anything except other Vampires.

>>54534369
Let's assume they can drink it. Would they continue on with the masquerade or would they decide to come out in the open?

>>54534401
Any suggestion of ending the Masquerade would risk a horribly reaction from the public, involving a potential military response in VtM. It would also make them a threat to the Technocracy's paradigm, so they'd have to go.

In VtR? It would possibly work, but that also relies on the non-existence of other powerful Supernaturals with an interest in maintaining the status quo. Also it's less likely to work, as their feeding restriction is more mystical. Bloodbags are weaksauce in VtR.

>>54534445
>your basically talking about True Blood, go watch it.

>>54534401
True Blood, meant for you!

>>54529368
So what *was* the design intent behind making them so much stronger?

>>54535280
Cosmic horror tier antagonists, secret magic societies in a cold war and a cool flexible magic system.

>>54535280
Demons need to be more powerful to stand a chance vs the GM.

vampires only have to struggle with grappling hobos to feed from so they dont need to be that strong

>>54535327
>>54535397
Yeah, but his wording implies that being more "potent than everybody else" was important. Not that it was an unavoidable side effect of the general game design.

How would a Lower Depths without Space even work?

As far as I can tell it would be a world were nothing made sense due to Spatial Awareness and Sympathetic Connections not being a thing.

Granted most of the Lower Depths are pretty capital "F" Fucked (The World Without Death is basically the Cancerverse, a World Without Time would be the realm of MCU!Dormammu and I'm pretty sure the Custodian came from a World Without Mind) but I think some would be worse than others.

>>54535452

The primary themes of Mage are hubris, privilege and the corruption of power without consequence. If mages didn't actually have significant power, the mechanics would not match the narrative setting elements.

>>54535487
A Lower Depth without Space would be one of those you cannot actually visit without supernatural shenanigans. You would need to create a bubble of space around you. If you visit it without it, you would probably cease to exist in any coherent sense.

>>54535767
I reckon it would be a Similar Story for any Lower Depth without a Gross Arcana.

The ones without Subtle Arcana would probably be fine, until something happened to you personally that required the presence of that Arcana, then things would start to go wrong.

>>54535767
>A Lower Depth without Space

That sounds like a fantastic Mystery to explore.

>>54536067
>That sounds like a fantastic Mystery to explore.
I know! and it's not as if anything bad will happen when we poke it with the Spatially Enclosed Stick, no way hose!

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>>54533205
Easily. Now that they've released one roll combat rules for oWoD with the DA20 companion, the system is arguably less cluttered than CofD.

And, as a bonus, you don't need to bribe your players to fail rolls anymore.

>>54536607
>An optional rule in a supplement to a pseudo-supplement

Okay.

Best thing about being a Mage is what?

>>54536067
Short of arch mastery visiting a lower depth is a one way trip.

>>54537104
Being able to tackle weirder plotlines.

>>54535663
I mean that's already sort of an issue. The abilities and capabilities of mages in the fictional pieces do not match what they can actually do.

I understand it's for narrative effect but it can be a little 'angel summoner and bmx bandit'.

>>54537149

A mage doesn't have to visit to investigate such a Lower Depth. He can probe through portals, summon its denizens, send sleeper test subjects, etc.

>>54537191
Mages in WoD fiction are either incompetent or deserving of the title. It's usually the former.
It's plot related. They have to dumb them down or else they will storm over everyone. It's the Superman effect, if you will.

Can you really blame them?

So what's more dangerous an attack from the abyss or form a lower depth?

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>>54536782
That is in no way a refutation of my argument. The rules now exist in an official capacity for the current edition. Beyond that, the character sheets tend to be far less cluttered and a variant is being developed for V5.

Now that OPP is in charge of your game line, well, take it from an oWoDfag: watching your game wither on the vine? It's not so bad.

>>54537230
The Abyss. How is this even a question?

>>54537222

Some fiction is better than other.

I think one of the better representations of a mage personality and power is Hal from "Premeditation" in the Beast Fiction Anthology. It's story involving the shenanigans of a group consisting of a mage, beast and changing breed trying to kill another beast in the Astral.

>>54537192
>send sleeper test subjects
I believe this is crime of Hubris

>>54537222
I always got this sense that within the fiction mages are supposed to have a bit more trouble just doing whatever. You do not *just* will Spells into existing, you have to understand the process too, at least to a degree. The fiction sometimes talks about "learning spells" (not Rotes or Praxes) as a thing (see the "Negotiate" point in the Duel Arcane section in Mage 2e)

The difficulty of Creative Thaumaturgy is not reflected in the mechanics at all, though.

>>54537512
>send sleeper test subjects
>I believe this is crime of Hubris

Indeed, It might also be standard operating procedure among many mages.

You don't want them to needless risk their important Awakened selves, do you?

>>54537252
You are going to have to run "far less cluttered" character sheets by me again. Unless this is another optional rule from somewhere, I cannot see how that could ever be true with oWoD's skill bloat and vague Backgrounds.

>>54537261
While I like the Abyss, I like the Lower Depths more. I feel like the Abyss is a little lazy for an origin because the answer to why it does is always that it's from the Abyss and being weird hazards to reality is what they do. The Lower Depths is similiar, but at least they're "realer" than the Abyss.

I probably didn't manage to get that across right, but it's how I feel.

>>54537736
>The Lower Depths is similiar, but at least they're "realer" than the Abyss.

The Abyss is "realer" in the sense that it holds all possible possibilities of the most horrifying things.
Things you would really rather not see come to fruition.

>>54537770
>Pentacle and Seer propaganda

baka famalam, liberate your mind

>>54537593
Guardians are around to make sure not too many
also the free council takes the protection of humanity pretty seriously
not saying you can't just...hide what you have to hide, and tell what you have to tell.

>>54537770
the abyss can do anything, it can also do nothing, at the same time.

>>54537815
>baka

piss off weeb

>>54537770
But they are explicitly not real, just possibilities and junk data. And despite containing all possibilities, every single one of them is horrible.

>>54537958
But can the Abyss spawn my preferred tentacle horror of a waifu whose name is Silvia?

The answer is yes.

Can someone explain Hubris to me? At first I thought that acts of Hubris were only things which you do using magic (why it's ok to shoot or use legacy attainment on someone), but apparently there are also things which are acts of Hubris that don't necessarily involve doing magic e.g. >>54537192

>>54537222
Which fiction and how are they incompetent?

>>54538007
Wisdom is a bit more customizable than before. You should consider what kind of themes you want to convey when choosing whether something is an Act of Hubris.

The default answer is that casual murder is pretty hubristic, magic or not. While accidental or passionate manslaughter shows a lack of wisdom and the associated self-control. Inured spells and Attainments are special because your soul is intimately prepared for the act (although the two achieve that in very different ways).

>>54536607
>one roll combat rule
Stolen from new world. So ...

>>54538007
The way I see it, Hubris happens when the Mage's actions are contradicting the Supernal part of Mage's soul. That's why you can largely customize acts of Hubris - different Mages define themselves on the deepest level by different things. Magic acts also hurt Mage more because of the deeper connection such acts have with Mage's soul. Certain acts are incopatible with being human, like murder, so they are always acts of Hubris, likewise when Mage controls his actions (prepares himself in advance for the act) the damage isn't as severe as you can limit the symbolic impact of the act on the soul.

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>>54538217
>>54538302
>killing someone trying to kill/harm you first is now considered an act of hubris

>>54538461
This is White Wolf we're talking about. Owning a gun and voting Republican are probably acts of Hubris too.

>>54538518
As they should be

>>54538461
It was back in 1e too.

Besides, of all splats mages have the most tools to never have to kill, unless the attacker is a similarly powerful supernatural threat (and then it is the most likely to not be an Act of Hubris).

Resorting to killing puny Sleepers, when there are so many other ways how you could defuse the danger and even turn the situation as the start of something Good, shows a lack of creativity ... and wisdom.

It is the whole Gandalf kind of wisdom: “Many that live deserve death. And some that die deserve life. Can you give it to them? Then do not be too eager to deal out death in judgement.”

>>54538536
>self-defense is hubris
okay then

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>>54538536
Anyone high up their own ass with their ideology can fall to hubris. Mage just makes what would take years to final get its comeuppance into a meta narrative gut punch. Like tales from the crypt stories

>>54538461
You don't need to kill them that's the whole point. As a mortal human the safest way to end a threat may involve killing your attacker.

As a mage that's not true in the slightest.

>>54538461
Wisdom isn't about, nor does it care about morality. It's an extension of human soul integrity by stretching it all the way to some of the ultimate truths, different for each mage.

Nevertheless, while Wisdom has to account for acts that go against your nature as a Mage, certain acts are basically universally supernaturally caustic. Channeling an unyielding truth of "Murder" through your soul will damage it without specialized Legacy attainment's protection, it's simple metaphysics. Murder does what Murder is.

Wisdom is connected to Integrity and Morality in a sense that people (Mages or not) basically figured out that certain acts are not good for you (and if they knew about it, your soul), so they decided that they are not "moral".

>>54538461
>killing someone trying to kill/harm you first is now considered an act of hubris

You're a mage with vast capabilities and generally not truly threatened by sleepers. As other Anons have already observed, killing such sleepers is wholly unnecessary.

In any event, the occasional killing in self-defense when truly threatened, and the attendant rolls with modifiers, will hardly render a mage into one of the Mad.

>>54538568
>>54538664
>>54538681
I am a death wizard how do I defend myself nonlethaly from a group of armed Muslims trying to kill me because I am white?

>>54538777
cuck yourself to the will of the overlord exarch

>>54538777
you send them to sleep or summon ghosts to scare them off

>>54538777

Think of creative uses of shadows and cold or even ghosts.

Also, is your mage really threatened by the group of armed men, and are they really little more than an nuisance. Better to simply employ a means of quick egress, and then haunt the men later until they learn the error of their ways.

>>54538841
Or dissapper or turn into an intangible shadow monster etc.

Wait. Killing somebody is an automatic cause for concern with Wisdom no matter the reason? Really?

Self defence?

>>54538871
what if I kill something that does not deserve life/has no real life?

>>54538777
Answer to your underlying objection: Of course circumstances matter. If neither the player nor ST can think of a way how the situation could have been resolved without bloodshed it would be wholly justifiable to take major bonuses to the roll or even waive it entirely. That is what the customisability is for since the designers cannot account for every situation.

To answer your specific question: Scaring them off with moving shadows or ghosts (making them risk Integrity is vastly preferable to them being dead), instantly rotting/corroding their weapon, play dead after a single strike, make it so cold they can barely fight, weaken them until they are no threat, learn their Conditions and play off them in Social Maneuvering, Just a few examples straight from the book.

>>54538890
>does not deserve life/

By who's standards? Sounds like the epitome of hubris.

>>54538900
an "immortal" that steals the life of others or something like that

>>54538871
yes because you're an idiot for not seeing it coming.

on the flip side a careful planed assassination is not an act of hubris.

Accident = You're an idiot for not seeing it
Planned = You're thinking of your actions

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>>54538900
>murderers and terrorists deserve life
Hello Merkel!

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Magefags killing vampires is sin worthy of wisdom loss

BAHAHAHAAHA

>>54538918
so if I plan to shoot up a school and I plan everything really carefully, it's not an act of hubris?

>>54538918
>on the flip side a careful planed assassination is not an act of hubris.

How is that not an act of hubris? That's still murder. It's arguably even worse.

>>54538777
Fuck off /pol/.

>>54538890
Tome of the Mysteries (1e) left that up as an exercise to the ST. Ashing a vampire, for example, may or may not be an Act of Hubris.

>>54538936
They do not deserve anything. As someone with PHENOMENAL COSMIC POWER should have better ways to deal with them then turning them into corpses.

Going for violent solutions make you part of the problem and a servant of the General.

>>54538936
please go back to /pol already

>>54538945
that's not assassination that's mass murder terrorism.

New thread
>>54539000

>>54538945
>>54538957
Planned actions can still be Acts of Hubris.

But Mage is one of the few games that considers 'planned' murder better than manslaughter. Because while murder is inherently unwise, at least you got your magic and yourself in check.

File: DracIsBack.jpg (29KB, 329x475px) Image search: [Google]

29KB, 329x475px

I have been out of this game for what seems like a millenia. I remember getting into it with Vampire: the Requiem. I recall that the book was not a standalone thing, and needed a World of Darkness core book to be played.

What is the current edition of the game? If I decide to get books, which should I get? Is this two-book situation still the case?

>>54538898
I bet your Wisdom is at a full fucking 10

You're too good for this thread

>>54539025
No?

The point is kind of that high Wisdom is not easy. The Silver Ladder even decries Wisdom as as tool of the Exarchs.

Starting Wisdom is 7 and the actual Pentacle average is probably closer to 5.

That is kind of a point of the setting.

I am actually a fullblown Scelesti edgelord. I am just explaining the narrative logic of Wisdom.

>>54538957
Planning thinking. careful. It's how does this action effect others?

At the high ends of enlightenment yeah total act of hubris. It's, if you're going to do it anyways, don't be the biggest asshole to most amount of people. Know what you're doing and why you're doing it. It's still justifying murder, but people in RL do that all the time.

>>54538957
To quote from the gospel of DaveB. In one of his games he had a Russian mob lieutenant that his player cabal wanted to eliminate.

They did this by parking a car across the street from where he was having lunch and having the acanthus curse him with a spell that tied his fate to those he meant harm, amplifying the misfortune he suffered, and for good measure a spell that would let the mage know when the curse happened.

A couple days later the Acanthus gets a vision of the mobster about to torture some dude in a basement with a razor blade only to slip fall and stab himself in throat and dying instantly.

NPC dead, no hubris, no paradox.

>>54539020
Blood and Smoke. Its stand alone. but the new core is still a good starting point

>>54539055
>Pentacle average is probably closer to 5
This is news to me

>I am actually a fullblown Scelesti edgelord
Gross

>>54539084
Karmic Bomb. Nice. wouldn't have worked on anyone else, but that's the point. Carefully crafted techniques for specific problems

>>54538980
>le bak 2 pol emem

Go away.

>>54539020
There is new thread >>54539000, you better ask there.

>>54538461
Well, building an Imago that specifically involves killing someone is a no-no, yeah, because you're channeling the intent to end a life through your soul. If the Mage doesn't believe in the spell, it won't happen.

>>54536607
Except it doesn't work as written because of combat disciplines like Fortitude and Potence aren't accounted for.

>>54528770
Whoops, my bad, I was misremembering.

>>54533551
Okay. Most of what was written about him comes from 1e though, there's a whole prop book ala the Book of Nod written about the Ordo. Revenant is good with the changes to 2e though, it fits the established origin nicely.