/CofD/ & /wodg/ Chronicles of Darkness and World of Darkness

>>54517488
After Changeling+Mage Arthurian, I'm hoping for Innocents Blitz. It's about time Innocents got something.

Why do we never hear about tradition Utopias?

Reminder that taking make believe games too seriously is bad for your health.

>>54517549
Well, they sort of had those in the Umbra. Early editions of OWOD Mage described Horizon, a massive Realm that contained a zone for each Tradition, in the style of that Tradition. Horizon had it's own book published, and a misprint for one of the characters' stats lead to them having to publish Masters of the Art and Arch-spheres rather than admit they made a mistake.

These days Brucatto hates Masters of the Art, and has done his best to de-emphasize it. But given how much else he fucked up for M20, I don't think anyone even noticed.

Also, I think the "end of days" sourcebook, Ascension, contained a possible scenario where that happened, but I never actually owned a copy of that one.

Ending the gamelines all those years ago was a mistake. There's a reason all the new ideas in CHROD are the most celebrated ones.

>>54517548
>After Changeling+Mage Arthurian

It looks like we're getting Gilgamesh unless a backer opts to support Mage/Changeling Camelot.

>>54517558
>Reminder that taking make believe games too seriously is bad for your health.

Reminder we dont have anything else in our lives except discussing this shitty games.

>>54517549
Because they are dystopias.

>>54517488
>What other dark eras are you looking forward to?

None, its just a shitty wellfare scam to get money to writers while they dont have to provide us with actual mechanics but more shitty fluff.

>>54517639
You could go outside and go hiking or something. I just got back from a kayaking trip. It was a blast.

>>54517461
I didn't want it as evidence, nimrod. I never said it didn't exist, or that he was wrong. Just that I literally couldn't find any specific stuff on it, and that I would like to know what folklore stories there were, since he apparently knew and I couldn't find out. I didn't ask for a massive link full of stuff or a half hour video, and I'm not interested enough to actually go through them. I wasn't insisting or arguing that point. Seriously go back and look. All I said was "I can't find any." Ironically you are much worse than you claim I am. I never stooped to personal attacks, even when I was "losing".

>>54517693

Why people always recommend hiking? Its the most boring ass thing i ever tried. Its drive at least 45 minutes to them walk around nature (ugh) and all of that just to see some nature for 3 seconds before it looses its novelty.

I will stick around with 4chan drama and hooker thank you.

>>54517630
That doesn't explain what a tradition utopia is. Umbral realms are "out of context" and therefore do not have to follow complete logic. whatever is lacking is made up from quint? whatever essence / mana is in owod

What does the perfect world for traditions look like?

>>54517643
I'm listening can you please expand?

>>54517700
fuck off /xfag

Feedback requested on new NPC:

http://forum.theonyxpath.com/forum/main-category/main-forum/the-new-world-of-darkness/1120200-new-horror-little-morpheus

>>54517731
I recommend hiking because it's the cheapest and easiest activity to get into. It's also fun and relaxing.

>>54517788
>I recommend hiking because it's the cheapest and easiest activity to get into. It's also fun and relaxing.

Didnt meant you in particular but in general people recommend hiking a lot like this life changing hobbie that it really isnt. YMMV of course.

Have you guys ran any of the dark eras? or historic chronicles in general?

>>54517816
Again, it's cheap and easy to get into and unless you're unable to move across mild terrain, anyone can do it. That's why people recommend it instead of something like recreational aviation, cave diving, or casual motor sports.

Why do people keep not updating the last thread in the OP? Last thread was >>54508589, not >>54493339.

>>54517766
As the person often referred to as /x/fag, I am not the poster you replied to.

>>54517617
But if boring black hats was messing with his vision, then doesn't that mean he had a nicer take on them?

>>54517639
You could try playing/running

>>54518126

But then i would lose access to this place. We all know people here dont play/run games and they just shitpost

>>54518095

What he is saying is that the technocracy as morally grey organization that could be heroic from a certain pov which was introduced (by mistake if one believe the komodo dragon) and explore further in Revised was all his idea.

>>54517488
COF I know you're butthurt that someone other than you started a thread but you don't have to refuse to link to it when it's the last thread every fucking time as a result.

>>54518212
Which is how the Technocracy should be, so this really kind of seems like a case of broken clock.

>>54518224

No anon, thats brucatto lying. The technocracy as a complex morallym complex wasnt Brucatto original intention. It was an accident and further explored in revised by other writters that werent him.

All Brucatto gave us is the technocracy as boring black hats because he hates the MAN. And his statement is him covering his ass as usual and robbing good writers of their credit

Anyone know how we could fix Beasts and Insatiables?

I'm thinking we fold them together somehow, find a way to make Families and Moments the first part of the Begotten as opposed to just a Family or Moment and some "hunger" that can be used as an excuse to make a horrible person.

Families indicate your Atavisms and the nature of Chambers in your Lair. Moments dictate when/where those Atavisms will be most effective.and where you can drop said Chambers of that Lair.

Family Stereotypes are how the Begotten see other Splats, Moment Stereotypes are how the other Splats see the Begotten.

>>54518331
/wodg/ checklist so far:
Dark eras shitfight:
opp sux guise:
"How to fix beast":
Meta about how we're all pathetic:
Brucato hatejerk:
Mage supremacy: X
Attack of the shitposters: X
"Does anyone actually play [INSERT SPLAT]: X
Dick measuring power comparisons: X
Actual quality discussion: X

>>54518409
Why did the checkmark I copy pasted show in the entry window but not in the post?

>>54518409
>Mage supremacy:
>Attack of the shitposters:
>Return of the Dave:

>>54518465
Return of the Dave is even less likely than Actual quality discussion.

>>54518465
>>Return of the Dave:
Clearly the Jedi Expies are Mind-Ruling Obrimos in the GOTV.

>>54518409
>Actual quality discussion:
Presuming we will get, whether through vote or expansion, Mage-Changeling Arthurian era, what would be the most interesting way to handle it? What about the story hooks?

>>54518409
I think I'm gonna make a /wodg/ bingo.

>>54518291
this. It is Brucato taking credit for the hard work of actually competent writers. Don't you think he would have done more with Threat Null than saying "oh, they're optional" if he actually had a clue about them?

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How could I use pic related in a VtM Campaign?

>>54518666
Ancient Methuselahs from Mesoamerica that are awakened by the Sabbat and now have to be reigned in. Perhaps with Kars as an inceptor, similar to a caitiff

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>>54518597
We actually made one about a year ago.

>>54518746
Obsolete. I'm about 2/3 of the way through the one I'm doing now.

>>54518751
I know, but it's still interesting to look into mindset of last years threads.

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>>54518774
I've got all but eight, any feedback or ideas for the missing tiles?

>>54518823
Israel/Palestine

>>54518855
ah, sorry, I see that it is already covered

>>54518855
Fair enough, I was thinking maybe it didn't quite happen enough but it probably does.

>>54518864
Actually it isn't, what did you think covered it?

>>54518873
change it into "Where are the Lions of Zion" or something else, that is usually the trigger

>>54518881
Complaining about politics

>>54518890
"Lions of Zion and related slapfights"?

>>54518903
I more meant the SIDEBARS OF UNPLAYABILITY when I put that in.

>>54518906
Sounds broad enough

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How's this overall?

>>54518997

Change "anime trash" to just "anime" so people don't split hairs over marking it and you're good.

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>>54519020

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>>54519075
Current thread

>>54518997
>>54519075
>>54519133
Can we maybe have ">The technocracy did literally nothing wrong"

>>54519207
"In-universe arguments"

>>54517854
I tried to run Sundered World chronicle. Shit died fast because of my problems with time, but it was great while it lasted.

>>54519207
Because they didn't and only nutjobs like Brucato think that we would be better off living under the rule of sorcerous overlords

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>>54519253
>Becoming this emotionally invested in a faction in an RPG

>>54519207
The only good thing to come from the Technocrats was Threat Null.

Though I still don't know what Spheres the Conventions make use of.

>>54519075
Are /x/fag and tumblranon the only legendary shitposter types?

>>54519336
Every Sphere except spirit (which is the speciality of the Void Engineers). Why hold on to archaic spearations when you can study all building blocks of the universe?

>>54519364
there is also the rabid palestine supporter

>>54519403
Yeah but if he gets a chance to show up, the thread has already been derailed. /x/fag and tumblranon can go zero to shitpost much faster.

>>54519380
No, I was asking which sphere's each convention used specifically.

I know the Syndicate have Entropy and Prime, Iteration X uses Forces and Matter and that the Void Engineers use Science and More Science....but I have no idea what the Progentiors and NWO make use of outside of the fact that the Progenitors use Life and the NWO uses Mind.

>>54519459
So the question is...which Convention uses Time?

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>>54519253

>>54519364
You're forgetting PalestineAnon, TechnocratFanboy and far into the past, aspel.

>>54519481
Whats this Lions Of Zion nonsense?

Not trying to induce Bingo, I genuinely don't know.

It's one of those big questions, kind of on the level of "Is the Sphere of Time more relevant to the NWO or the Progenitors?", if you catch my drift.

>>54519481
That's not Splat wars, that's either Brucato hatejerk or In-universe arguments. Splat wars would be if we were arguing about whether Mage was better than Vampire or something.

>>54519500
TechnocratFanboy is too on-topic to be a true shitposter, if that sort of thing isn't okay, then what is /wodg/ for?

>>54519521
That's not worth arguing about, Mage is clearly superior is just about every way.

>>54519517
Brucato removed the Lions of Zion from M20 because he thought it was a symbol of Israeli militarism.

>>54519543
And now you can mark that spot for real, >>54519481

I like how now the thread has turned into discussing the bingo that parodies the usual discussions in this thread.

>>54519558
Shouldn't we shitpost about it in at least 50 messages?

>>54519591
With that requirement, and a ~300 post bump limit, you'd never get bingo.

What would be the endgame of the verbena and Dreamspeakers?

>>54519627
Maybe 5-10 post requirement.

>>54519481
You can mark namefags >>54517488

>>54519459
NWO uses Correspondence and I think Progenitors use whatever else comes in handy

>>54519659
I'd say they have to post in the thread, CoF always tries to start these.

>>54519632
Destroy civilization and reduce humanity to live in tribal societies dominated by them. Haven't you paid attention?

>>54519671
...But who got Time?

>>54519724
Void Engineers.

>>54519692
>still memeing
>pic related
It's like you haven't even read the books.

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>>54519692
>forgot pic

So, now that Dave is finally working again on Mage, can we expect another preview in the near future? I would love to see something about Supernal entities, Aedes or mythical creatures.

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Do werewolves have their own alphabet? They have their own spoken language, but what about a written form? Or do they just write down First Tongue in whatever human alphabet they know?

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>>54520049
They have pictograms. The pictograms translate into words and garou have an in-built knowledge of them.

>>54520239
That's WTA. He asked about WTF

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New ST looking into running vampire, just what do I need to make for a Chronicle? I just need a general idea of how to set a city up, how to establish connections, what to put the players up against, and general advice.

I want to see something set during the Holocaust. Like Geist and Promethean.

>>54520239
Those are not so much of an alphabet as their hobo code though.

>>54519551
personally i'm not a fan of isreal but jews are okay however, I'm also not a fan muslims and that fucker propped up actual terrorists in that shitty book so fuck him.

>>54520300

The first chapter of Damnation City for Vampire the Requiem got you covered.

>>54517700
Sore loser much?

>>54520049

No, they dont own an alphabet.

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>>54517700
Consider yourself educated.

>>54520379
Will that be good for Masquerade as well?

>>54518666
Gay. As. Fuck.

>>54520308
>implying current OPP has the balls to do cool shit like a second Shoa book

>>54520461

Dracula sure will.

>>54520432
>Will that be good for Masquerade as well?

Maybe but take it with a grain of salt as Clan is actually important in Masquerade (they serve the same function than Covenants in Requiem).

Maybe guide to the camarilla is better for masquerade?

>>54520328
What part of "Pictogram" do you not understand?

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>>54518666
>How could I use pic related in a VtM Campaign?

>>54518710
>Ancient Methuselahs from Mesoamerica that are awakened by the Sabbat and now have to be reigned in

That's not a bad idea, though I'd change it around a bit so that the Sabbat weren't the ones awakening them, in order to make it fit better with established canon...

http://whitewolf.wikia.com/wiki/Tlacique
http://whitewolf.wikia.com/wiki/Nahuallotl

The Tlacique are canonically a bloodline of vampires, loosely related to the Followers of Set (in that they share the same clan weakness). The main difference between them and the mainstream Followers is that the Tlacique ruled over the mortals openly in ages past, rather than from the shadows, and rather than Serpentis they had more skill with Protean and a subset of thaumaturgy known as Nahuallotl.

When the Camarilla (following the Spanish Conquistadors) invaded, the Tlacique fought back but couldn't stem the tide. They then later allied with the Sabbat, but due to issues of faith (the Tlacique refused to give up their beliefs) the Sabbat ended up attacking and betraying them.

In the modern age, most Tlacique are scattered and very few in number after their war with the Camarilla and the Sabbat's backstabbing, but they're adapting quickly, embracing new childer and are (according to V20 Lore of the Clans) awakening any of their slumbering Elders that they can find, getting ready to wrest back control of their ancient lands from the treacherous Sabbat and the Camarilla that invaded them long ago.

I mean, it's almost a perfect fit.

>>54520488
And Dracula is the reason why you should not do all the things you could. That you can, does not mean you should.

>>54517700
So you're such a loser that when you lose an argument you drag it into the next thread?

Wow. You should have BORN TO LOOSE tattooed on your chest.

>>54519413
Thank you, it's good to be appreciated... if by "shitpost" you mean "keeping it real".

>>54517693
I've got massive nerve damage in my legs that makes hiking quite impossible these days, better to just shitpost.

>>54519632
Burning Man festivals.

>>54520760
Do you recommend V20 Lore of the Clans?

>>54520760
>I mean, it's almost a perfect fit.
Maybe their real names are Snake, Red Bird and Cat.

But they went with Wammu, Kars and Eisidisi to try and blend in.

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Posting again just to get more players:
Since there's no gamefinder thread up and all the ones that do come up die almost instantly, this is probably my best shot.
I'm looking to run (Or rather, continue) a Cyberpunk VtM game, and need some players to beef up what I have already.

I say continue because it takes place in the same continuity as a game I ran to completion before, though with only one returning player and character that doesn't mean all too much.

Games are likely to happen on Saturdays after 6:30PM Pacific Standard Time, or at around 2PM PST on Thursdays. With luck, some Sundays could be open as well. This is just due to my sporadic as fuck work schedule.

For more info, or if you want to join, or whatever, just hit me up on Discord; KZh#6787

>>54517781
Anybody willing to take a look at this?

>>54520432
Yes. It's actually an excellent all around city building supplement. I found it helpful for Werewolf and Changeling too.

Hey guys. I just want you all to take a break from the board and read Psalm 138. It's a quickie, but a powerful one.

>>54522150
>Praising the name of some fuckwit who doesn't deserve worship.
What the fuck is wrong with you anon?

>>54522150
ur stupid

Are the Changeling fags still raging about King Arthur and its ties to Mage?

Or have they calmed down?

>>54522993
They all died because Gilgamesh is going to win and no one here cares about it. They starved to death from lack of attention.

>>54522150
I will praise thee with my whole heart: before the gods will I sing praise unto thee.

I will worship toward thy holy temple, and praise thy name for thy lovingkindness and for thy truth: for thou hast magnified thy word above all thy name.

In the day when I cried thou answeredst me, and strengthenedst me with strength in my soul.

All the kings of the earth shall praise thee, O Lord, when they hear the words of thy mouth.

Yea, they shall sing in the ways of the Lord: for great is the glory of the Lord.

Though the Lord be high, yet hath he respect unto the lowly: but the proud he knoweth afar off.

Though I walk in the midst of trouble, thou wilt revive me: thou shalt stretch forth thine hand against the wrath of mine enemies, and thy right hand shall save me.

The Lord will perfect that which concerneth me: thy mercy, O Lord, endureth for ever: forsake not the works of thine own hands.

>>54523036
I guarantee you all the voters for Gilgamesh are weeaboo shitstains

>>54523042
The /x/fags evidence was more believable than this horse shit.

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>>54523036
Really?

>>54523109
Oh man, get fucked weebs. Jazz era would have been better though.

Could somebody link the poll just for the ease of things?

>>54523109
>Jazz Age didn't win.
>We never got Jazz Mages.
That's a shame.

>>54523123
http://theonyxpath.com/dark-eras-poll/
It hasn't moved since the first poll, and probably never will.

>>54523052
No, I am a fan of classical mythology. What the fuck does Gilgamesh have to do with Mongolian Comic Books?

>>54523109
3 vote difference. I could personally swing this dropping in and out of airplane mode on my phone.

>>54523149
>has never played final fantasy
>has never watched the fate series

It's all terrible, anon
Weebs don't like Gilgamesh because he's a primordial figure of legend. They like him because Japan butchered his very being.

>>54522353
>>54523058

Seething with such hostility towards something which holds little sway over you? I won't say any more. I need not.

Wait a second
If Arthurian Britain is Mage-Changeling

What are the other two Dark Eras?
I can see Mage being under Gilgamesh as well.

>>54523213
Hostility? I talk like this with everyone. You just cited a really boring book that is even worse of a written text than M20. It has no place here.

>>54523245
Every Era is about Mages

>>54523185
I really haven't - I played like one Final Fantasy game on the SNES and hated it, I like my CRPGs like the Ultimas. The one I played was so linear it might as well have been a playable comic book.

>>54523245
They didn't release them publicly, but dev commentary on Aruthrian era revealed the lines for it as Mage/Changeling. Probably. Maybe everything is a lie!

>>54523245

I think the Jazz Age would be a great Vampire / Werewolf crossover. Gilgamesh seems a good fit for Beast.

>>54523245
Werewolf could work for Gilgamesh. Or Hunter. Jesus, Hunter has been all but forgotten, and it was among the best of nWoD.

>>54523139
>We never got Jazz Mage

>Read Mage Noir, the Mage 1e supplement.

>>54523253
Don't respond to him, you are making a fool of yourself, and shitting up the board. And are in no way saving face. It's over, the troll has won and left.

>>54523288
>Hunter has been all but forgotten

>Amen

Hopefully, Hunter 2e will be a vast improvement over the original, but I don't see a way to cure the splat envy endemic to Hunter fans.

>>54523042
That is beautiful. The King James version unto itself is a masterpiece, and the words themselves and the faith behind them.

I wish I could feel faith.

>All these Magefags wanting Mage in the next era

Fuck off, you have two already.

Even though DaveB voted for Jazz Age, his recent (and unusual) postings about Camelot Mage and Changeling probably ironically created more attention and interest in Camelot in the poll.

>>54523245
Mage can go with most Dark Eras, as magic users have been prominent in all legends, myths and cultures throughout history.

Of course the other splatfags will never admit it, no matter how historically correct it is.

>>54523366
It's not our fault. Arthurian Britain has been a long time coming. Mage deserves this.

We need a psychedelic 1960's era in San Francisco, LA, NY or London for Changeling.

>>54523383
Mages are also human.

>>54523418
>Mage deserves this.

Mage deserves a Dark Eras Mage (but I'll settle for Signs of Sorcery being released sometime this century).

>>54523439
>Mages are also human.

Mages are the only *real* humans. The rest of the Sleeping masses are Abyss-tainted monkeys and baboons.

>Join the Mysterium

>>54523468
Quit LARPing faggot. You've been told about this before.

>>54523556
I hope he keeps doing it if it bothers you this much

:^)

>>54523058
Why do you feel the need to use this as a means of making your argument? As if what I say is somehow so inherently ridiculous that you can use it as a standard of measurement?

>>54523042

Are you the /x/fag that was sexually harassing women in his workplace?

>>54523650
Two things: First, that is not me, and second, as I have said so many times, I have not sexually harassed anyone.

>>54523627
The general consensus is towards disbelief of your claims, though I do find them entertaining, regardless of their truth value. The bible on the other hand isn't even good fiction or prose. Or even entertaining stories. Its just all garbage with no redeeming value.
Also you're probably a meme now till enough threads pass that everyone forgets.

>>54523627

Because we can? Also it is a unit of measurement for shitposting. 10 magefag = 1 aspel, 3 times aspel equals = 1 tumblranon. And finally 15 tumblranon = 1 retarded /x/fag post

>>54523374
Supernal chess by the Exarch

>>54523750
what are atheist fedorafags on this scale?

>>54523750
Why do you think I'm shitposting? I've said so many times I'm not, and what would I gain from it?

>>54523750
I'd say tumblranon is worse than /x/fag.

>>54523679

Dude, your boss came here and told on you. You just need to be honest and seek help.

>>54523844
As I've also said, I don't have a boss. Why do you have this obsession with making things up about me?

>>54523813

1,5 aspel

>>54523835

Thing is, tumblranon are at least funny in their retardation and get triggered which is even more funny. This delusional fag is just a combimation of sad and annoying

>>54523880

You tell us, why anyone would come take time of their lives to come here and spread lies about you /x/fag anon if they werent true?

>>54523907
>>54523835
tumblr anon is a raging antisemitic faggot who's actually retarded. Purely 100% annoying with no redeeming value.
/x/fag actually isn't a faggot about his beliefs, but has a weird kinda 'innocence' of not picking up on things. Far more entertaining, and interesting.

>>54523952
You literally couldn't know anyway, 4chan is anonymous.

>>54523963
>but has a weird kinda 'innocence' of not picking up on things
Do you think he might actually be autistic?

>>54524011

I think he is just trollimg us, playing innocent until we lose pur shit. It wont happen but good effort though.

>>54524071
>playing innocent until we lose pur shit

That's exactly what he's doing

>>54524011
I am not autistic, and what do you mean that I don't pick up on things anyway?

>>54523963
who's the tumblranon ?
what did he do ?

>>54524071
You know, I don't want to post constantly in these threads about this stuff but you keep saying stuff about me that isn't true.

>>54524177
Hes just building your mythos so you can become legend anon

>>54523822
the same what every shitposter gains

>>54524177
ia ia go back to your ftaghn deepshit

>>54524225
Which is?

>>54524244
nothing

>>54524256
Then why would I do it? What point are you trying to make here?

>>54524235
What is that supposed to mean?

>>54523374
Camelot is the era of Merlin. The most famous ascension ever. Who wouldn't be curious about the state of the world before he outsmarted the Exarchs and reality was retconned.

>>54524215
But why? All it is is more talking about the thing you all say you don't want to be talking about?

>>54523797
The Komodo is far too cunning.

>>54524308
Ah ah ah... ascension is oWoD.

>>54524314
> talking about the thing you all say you don't want to be talking about?
Thus is the art of shitposting anon. We make our selves suffer minorly to make others suffer more.

>>54524302
exactly.

>>54524339

not sure if serious

>>54524340
But I'm not shitposting.

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The Deviant Skull is pretty fucking awesome.

>>54524366
Even if you aren't everyone else is. This has a transformative effect making the entire thread shitposts.

>>54524380
The skull is the best thing to come out of the Dark Eras 2 kickstarter.

>>54524384
But why would they do that if their whole issue with me is that I'm supposedly shitposting?

>>54524339
It's still a thing in awakening. Merlin's ascension changed the very nature of Fate. So even The Ruin's autistic rage couldn't undo the changes.

It's a tiny ember of hope for the pentacle.

>>54524483
How did it change it?

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>>54524500
It turned the very concept of fate from a horrific punishing trio of harpies which seeks to subject man to horror and terror. A cruel, punishing and relentless concept.

Into Mordred.
The belief that all men sow the seeds of their own ruin.
Which while still a bit fatalistic, is acknowledging that Fate can be positive in some aspects, and is not some unknowable, inhuman monstrosity, but instead a very human, personal failing that relies upon the corruption within to form Banes.

tl;dr
Fate went from a cruel oppressive tyranny to a corruptive self-defeating influence

>>54524411

The issue is that all your post are shitposting. We told that your opinion are not wanted and you still posting.

Trully a finer shitposter you are good sir. Even if your facade fades a little by acting suspiciously defensive against other anons telling you to stop harassing women

>>54524551
What book is that text from?

>>54524551
Isn't Mordred also featured in Changeling as the Ruinous Prince?

>>54524579
But I'm not harassing anyone, as I've said so many times. How is it shitposting to defend myself against lies?

>>54524579
I like his opinions. Even if I don't agree with them.

>>54524551
The Aeon before Medraut was Set. What aspect of Fate did Set embody?

>>54524639
The Aeon before Merdraut was based on the Greek triple fates

>>54524592
The Astral Realms supplement I think.

>>54524592
Imperial Mysteries

>>54524601
I really have no idea, man.
It's possible that post-Ascension, there was another 'Mordred' who is Changeling related, but not the original one with Merlin.

Really there's nothing that says there couldn't be a second instance of 'Camelot' after the first's removal from the timeline, and symbolisation in Merlin's Ascension.
It just wouldn't be the first, true, almost-perfect Camelot which was created by Imperial Fate Magic.

>>54524656
Not in Dark Eras during the Hellenic Age.

>>54524670
>>54524656
>In an Egyptian palace of red stone, Sopdet (Sothis), manifestation of Aset (Isis) and queen of Time, stands by an empty throne. The crown of Upper Egypt sits upon it, darkened by the shadow of some snouted predatory beast. Sopdet explains that her co-regent, Set of Fate, is not bound to the end of worlds like the others. She represents both of them in the palace of the Acanthos

Dark Eras, p.85

>>54524639
>>54524656
>>54524670

Set > Triple fates > Merdraut

???

Do the Aeons just change over time due to wizard shenanigans?

>>54524605

Keep the good shit post son, we gonna make a legend out of you. Aspel will wish he could ruin threads as fast as you!

>>54524669
I assumed the Camelot was a small splinter/reflection of the first city/atlantis that Merlin wrestled into existence thanks to his arch mastery of Time.

Holy shit Building a Legend is annoying. It seems like every five seconds they're telling me 'don't do a stereotyped Hollywood portrayal.

What if I don't care about that? What if my group is fine about having an inauthentic Beijing as a setting, and I don't have the time to read 1000 words on Chinese culture?

It just feels like wasted wordcount.

>>54524483
I'm still reading the 2.0 core book but haven't seen that stuff yet - they've changed quite a bit from 1.0 awakening though so I wasn't sure.

>>54524730
Set would be before the three fates of Greek myth.

>>54524670
>>54524730
It's entirely possible reality went through another revision before Merlin decided to dip his dick in the Exarch's martini.

In fact, that's a major theme of Imperial Mysteries.
It's impossible (unless you experienced it) to tell how many revisions ago, reality was in a certain state.

The world might have 'Fallen' 5 years ago, for all you'd know.

>>54524743
That can happen. Three other Aeons were also replaced, but the rest is relatively stable
>who can replace the Old Man?

>>54524743
Yes. Although it's easier said then done.

>>54524755
It is wasted word count, just like every other lecture the side bars give about using the right pronouns. Its just PC culture bullshit leaking into an RPG about monsters.

>>54524765
>>54524743
>>54524730
Is this Set tied to Sutekh from Mummy, who sacrifices himself to give Humanity the gift of Will?

>>54524755
They do it. Have fun, don't try to impress some cunt on a forum who probably just spent the last week arguing with people about Archmage related posts on OPP forums.

You people sure do complain a lot. Do you even play these games?

>>54524781
You're really reaching for the excuse to whine about skeletons this time.

>>54524820
Who is 'they?'

Why do Imperial Rites sound so fucking overpowered?

Do the other figures in the Pax have anything similar?

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>>54524820
>>54524856
*Then do it, sorry.

>>54524833
Oh that's a good one, mate! You got them good! You totally showed them! Let me just give you a big old pat on the back there, you got those jerks good! You showed them! Like they've never been showed!

>>54524773
First off why would you want to? The Old Man is the most approachable and 'reasonable' of the aeons.

Secondly, how the hell would you do it? Ascension is translating yourself into a Supernal symbol and permanently removing yourself from reality. There are no symbols for the abyss in the supernal. That's why it's the abyss.


You'd have to somehow recreate the impossible like The Gate by defining the undefinable and do some sort of 'anti-ascension' and place yourself into the abyss.

As far as I can tell The Gate is the only one who's ever managed that kind of magic.

>>54524871
The other figures in the Pax have something like them, but it's not elaborated on.

>>54524920
What are the other figures in the Pax anyway?

>>54524871
>>54524920

No they do not. The other gods can't retroactively influence reality the way Supernal users can.

They can still match them with Influences.

>>54524871
Nothing a former human can attain

>>54524853
Wat

>>54524951
So basically, they can all do the same stuff, except Archmages can make it retroactive.

>>54524944
Every 6+ being is entitled to abide by the Pax.

Otherwise you get ganged up on and destroyed / erased.
It's the only thing keeping the world from tearing itself apart.

>>54524966
Skeleton is the term used by smug faggots to say SJW when they want to mock sane people who hate them.

>>54524951
>What is the God-Machine?
>What is the fact that every time some mage decides to retroactively unmake Vampires (or any of the other splats) something retroactively remakes them.

>>54524970
Archmages and their peers affect the source code of everything and more. Retroactivity is just a by-product.

>>54524990
The God-Machine abides by what current reality stands by. It uses the living symbols of the Supernal as its infrastructure.

it doesn't work reality so much as works with it.

>>54524944
Anything rank 6 or up I believe. Luna, Helios, The old gods of the Underworld, True Fae, The God Machine, The Judges, etc.

>>54524990
That's why I love the God Machine. It's the ultimate Technocracy, the bitchslap in the face to all of the ego stroking of mage idiots who think their power is infinite. There's something greater out there, and it has a plan.

>>54524990
>What is the fact that every time some mage decides to retroactively unmake Vampires (or any of the other splats) something retroactively remakes them.

They get ganged up on by other Archmages defending Vampires. If that's what you mean by retroactive.

>>54525046
The God-Machine is *technically* under the Exarchs. But thanks to the way they both work, they never interact. At least not in the traditional sense.

>>54525007
The God Machine transcends the Supernal, and beyond. It is something beyond the ken of even mages.

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>>54525098
Not really

>>54525119
So basically the God-Machine is an unavoidable consequence of reality, not really weaker or stronger than an Ascended being?

>>54525119
GOD FUCKING DAMNIT

It's like Mage was privileged from th fucing start

But you know what? I'm just going to ignore the canon lore bcause its MY chronicle not yours

fuck you and your mage cosmology

I like running nWoD as oWoD hit by Threat Null, with the God Machine being its ultimate evolution. The Fall, the Exarchs, all of that, *everything* have been engineered by it, and is being manipulated to some degree if not being outright controlled depending.

>>54525046
It would be fair to say that non arch masters underestimate the god machine and/or overestimate their understanding of it. But think about it from their perspective.

A vast cosmic entity with seemingly limitless resources, ability, servants, and malignant intent?

Take a number, you probably catch glimpses of half a dozen phenomenon like that every time you turn on the sight.

>>54525155
If I had to choose *weaker* or *stronger*, I would choose the former. I mean, it was theorized that an Archmage was responsible for the creation of the God-Machine after it was casted down.

But again, they never interact in the traditional sense.

>>54525119
That's a DaveB forum past - remember, if it's not published, it isn't Canon, especially something by a single line developer convering something universal like this.

If you can find this in print, then it's canon, otherwise, it's DaveB bullshitting with mage fans.

>>54525161
Mages are simply superior. Stop struggling against this simple truth

>>54525161
Same, they can't tell me what to think.

>>54525207

Well, aren't you an autistic anon.

>>54525207
>if I close my eyes, its not real
sure, anon, whatever lets you sleep at night

Nothing is above the Exarchs

>"Below the Archigenitors and the Iron Seals that represent the Arcana, the Seers of the Throne populate choruses and legions of lesser Exarchs. They speak of 8 million recorded gods, seven legions of Arch-Ascended under every Seal, ruling 77 ochemata and 777 secret masters of the world, and even universes within each Exarch’s soul, huge enough to spawn infinite avatars."

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>>54525213

>>54525263
Someone start LARPing and we'll have a swastika.

>>54525098
>The God Machine transcends the Supernal, and beyond. It is something beyond the ken of even mages.

Oh please. I shouldn't be laughing this hard.

>>54518533
I talked to Dave two weeks ago. It's not that unlikely.

>when someone thinks the god machine is above archmages and ascendants

It's never pretty

>>54525285
If he's your storyteller, you're just fucked though, aren't you.

>>54525346
The God-Machine is above Archmages but below Ascendants.

>>54525377
Well, it's the STs decision on who trumps who.

What IS above the Supernal in power?

>>54525431
Nothing, that's the point.

>>54525443
Imperial Mysteries suggests the Empyrean for a source of undiluted Truth.

Also, Scelesti will claim "the Abyss".

Reminder that every gameline has something good to offer, not just Mage. Limiting yourself to just one thing is one of the symptoms of autism, you know.

>>54525494
But that's just another schtick of Mage

>>54525498
>Reminder that every gameline has something good to offer
Except for beast

>>54525494
I haven't read IM, what's the Empyrean?

>>54525537
Even it has a few good ideas.

>>54525541
A superior Supernal, if you will. Raw Truth.

It might also hold the Principle, responsible for Prometheans.
The two lines are possibly more connected than people realize.

>>54525559
I really don't understand CofD lore. Quick explanation of the whole thing?

>>54525541
>I haven't read IM, what's the Empyrean?
It's not really explained beyond what >>54525559
said.

>>54525549
Playing it however, is not among those ideas.

>>54525559
Wait, if the Empyrean is raw truth, then what is the Supernal?

>>54525604
More specific Truth. Truth with meaning. The source code of reality.

How is magic cast in Mage the awakening. Is it verbal, hand gesture, or writing runes in the air? Or does it take elaborate and silly rituals. Do you need a wand or staff? Are they more like Harry potter wizards or like DnD?

>>54525604
If the Empyrean is the material

Then the Supernal is what that material takes shape

Are any of the Vampire games good core systems if you want to run vampires in a different setting?

>>54524136
He wants the Arabs to abolish Israel and kill all the Jews there.

>>54525639
It can be all of that, if you wish. It also really depends.

>>54525659
I'm running a Vampire game in a cyberpunk setting and the system works okay enough.

>>54525622
So shitty writing?

>>54525572
Mage is all about platonic Truths. The Supernal is where those Truths and their symbolisms originate.

Now, regular mages assume that the Supernal is the source of all objective Truth. Eternal and Pristine.

Archmages know that the Supernal can be tempered with (which inevitably leads to major changes in the phenomenal world, as you can imagine when a Cosmic Truth has been changed). Some think the Empyrean is an "über Supernal" where undiluted Truth originates.

To Scelesti (bad mages who track with Not-Yog-Sothoths from outside sane reality) everything came originally from the Abyss. The Supernal and the Phenomenal world we got is simply the version of reality that survived a sort of cosmic selection, survival of the most stable reality.


And all this is only really relevant in Mage.

For mortals and most supernaturals these high concepts mean nothing to their existences.

>>54525207
Dave has written for all lines but one. His word is canon.

>>54525684
Oh so magic doesn't have any set rules or laws in this setting. If I wanted my mage to need to say words to cast spells I can and on the flipside I could just make all spells just mentally activatible?

>>54525604
Subjective Truth. The Supernal can be altered, but the Empyrean is eternal and unchanging.

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Which game line would better allow me to make a sexy 1000+ old vampire badass playboy?

>>54525659
Vampire: the Requiem 2e can, with some changes, accommodate almost every kind of vampire RPG you can imagine.

>>54525722
His biases are pretty obvious though.

>>54525736
Actually, there are plenty of set rules. But almost all the ways how you can imagine people spellcasting are viable ways to tap into Supernal power. At their most basic, you can activate magic without doing anything else at all, but using mantras, symbolic rituals, implements and so on helps you focus on the Truths you want to invoke and therefore increase the power of your spells. Almost every mage develops their own style however.

>>54525671
I mean abolishing Israel is a good idea but why the fuck would anyone want to explicitly kill the Jews?

>>54525639
To oversimplify, your soul is anchored to the realm of pure truth that defines reality, with an act of will you can nudge the symbols of that realm around to produce effects. This isn't easy, though it can be made easier with mnemonic devices and such like chants and gestures and items

>>54525692
Do you think it would work well for a Wild West setting?

>>54525671
That sounds more like /pol/ than tumblr, tumblr refuses to admit that Arab control of the region could ever result in such a thing.

>>54525778
Probably vampire? You said it right in the question.

>>54525800
Probably. Just change some skills around

>>54525806
Oh I meant which vampire masquerade or requiem?

>>54525711
Tell me, do wizards regularly partake in acid?

>>54525804
The difference between /pol/ and tumblr is that tumblr claims the Jews are oppressing the Arabs. He's not a Nazi, but he might be an Arab or a useful idiot from the Left.

>>54525850
Not if they want to remain sane, alive and stable.

>>54525850
Yes

>>54524985

>SJW = sane

Nigga please

>>54525260
It's possible the principle is equivalent or above.

>>54525939
That's literally the opposite of what I said.

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Why do idiot mage supremacists brag about mage SUPREMACY when super power ful mages are rare as fuck and takes lifetime of study to get to a level where they can take on a Vampire not to mention only a few of the arcana has any effect on a strong vampire.

>>54517788
Cycling is far better.

>>54525981
>not to mention only a few of the arcana has any effect on a strong vampire.
low quality bait

>>54525850
If they want to. They can also create Wizard super acid if they wanted.

>>54525981
>afew arcana

Space, Forces, Fate, Death, Matter, Mind, TIme can fuck a vampire sideways easily.

Spirit, Prime and Life are the only Arcana that might struggle vs a vampire.

>>54526009
Tell me what the fuck would shit like prime or life do to a Vampire?

>>54526069
Prime has celestial fire.

Life not so much vs a vampire.

>>54526048
Spirit would be devastating against a Vampire. They have little to no defense against attacks from spirits.

>>54525722
No, what's published is canon. Period. Just because he's worked on individual books for lines doesn't mean he's got full developmental control over WoD cosmology for all of eternity. When are you worshippers and sycophants going to learn this?

>>54526048
Vampire mental abilities are far superior to a mage. Not to mention space can't do shit to a Vampire with celebrity. Also the only forces spells that can hurt a Vampire would cause a shit load of paradox.

>>54526093
>>54526107
Too bad a Vampire could speedblitz you before you could even get a cast off.

>>54526107
Yes, but that would require abit of prep and time.

If it was straight up fight with no prep spirit is probably one of the weaker arcana vs anything not a spirit

>>54526093
Don't use Life magic against the undead. Think laterally.

e.g. Transform yourself into a cloud of Cordyceps spores and hijack every living thing in the area and attack with a legion of mushroom warriors armed with flamethrowers.

>>54526121
Bad bait is bad

Mind 2 is superior to dominate, Time is superior to celerity.

jog on trolls

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>>54526158
But don't you know anon, all of the mages have Mage Armor and Supernal Reflexes and other bullshit stuff up all the time?!?!?!?!

>>54526186
reflexive mage armour means yes they do

>>54526175
The only one baiting here is you. Tell me how the fuck is mind better than Dominate I'll wait.

>>54526201

>>54526159
Depends on the level of Spirit. An adept of Spirit is one of the most terrifying things you can face if you don't have access to Spirit or Prime.

>>54526069
Vampires drink blood to sustain their existence. Existence is made of quintessence, which is what Prime manipulates.

You know what happens if you strip a vampire of it's blood pool? It isn't pretty. It's even worse when you taint it, or make the vampire unable to keep any for more than a few minutes. Life and Death both are required to effect vampires themselves generally, but you can use life to manipulate blood too. Cursing a vampire with an aura of Prime and life magic that turns any blood that they touch into hemocyanin or pure lymph would lead to them self destructing in an insane frenzy as they starve to death with a bounty of blood all around them.

>>54526207
Mind 2 can make you do suicidal shit, with a ES you wont be able to resist it.

Go read Psychic Domination spell, Mind 2 gives you a CoW vs Dominate.

>>54526186
That's the other thing. Mage fags act like every mage is a master of all ten fucking arcana when most struggle to master one let alone two or three

Oh wow. A guy is arguing with himself about mage vs vampire to try and troll. Tonight on samefag theater.

>>54526241
MIND 2 "Kill yourself" and your dead mate.

Not a master

>>54525711
>For mortals and most supernaturals these high concepts mean nothing to their existences.

Wasn't it proposed in IM that an Archmage of Death was responsible for the Kindred Curse?

>>54526299
Oh fuck off

>>54526256
Chance of success for a neonate with Dominate 2 vs. a fresh mage with Mind 2 is a pretty noticeable difference, though.The mage has to take -2 to even get past average Resolve.

The fresh mage will also eat paradox, given how hard you have to Reach to make someone commit suicide on the spot (~4). Of course at less than Gnosis 3 Paradox is not a big threat but still.

Vampfags are getting pissssssssst

The truth of the matter is
Mages can speedblitz better than Vampires
Mages can use mental shenanigans better than Vampires
Mages can defend themselves better than Vampires
Mages have attacks that no Vampire can truly defend against

The lines were never meant to be equal
This was already confirmed by the devs

>>54526299
Yes. Seven dots is the 'Make your own splat' tier.

>>54526111
I love it when people just try to close their eyes and ignore the truth. Dave is a developer. WoG has always been taken to be canon in all works of fiction. The only people who deny it are the ones who don't like what's being said.

>>54526449
Yeah, but Dave is not God for every line or even the CofD as a whole. By that logic Rose could come out tomorrow and say that Supernal magic just fails against mages on principle and wouldn't that be hella bullshit?

>>54526426
>The lines were never meant to be equal
>This was already confirmed by the devs

The problem is not the lines being unequal. The problem is the lines being unequal in a way that threatens the internal logic and consistency of the setting. If vampires really are so little of a threat and mages spin conspiracies just like vampires (and supposedly butt heads because of that fairly regularly) then you would except a whole lot more Domains being ashed regularly. Vampires are so unpleasant from an outside perspective that having an at least threatening level of power is required to make it believable that the local Consilium or Protectorate thinks twice before starting some shadow genocide against bloodsuckers.

>>54526494
>By that logic Rose could come out tomorrow and say that Supernal magic just fails against mages on principle and wouldn't that be hella bullshit?
Yeah it would. Good thing it's not the same as saying that the God Machine, a super computer that processes reality, uses the symbolism of Exarchs. It's literally a harmless piece of fluff that affects nothing on a practical level and actually serves to tie things together a bit better.

>>54526449
You sound like a cultist, you really do.

People can "Develop" single books. That doesn't make their forum chatter anything more than forum chatter. Take Dave's forum statements as clarifications for confusing statements in his own specific writing at best, but they are not canon.

You seem to really have trouble understanding what canon is, and this seems to be persistently troubling you. We've explained it to you before, and I'm sorry it's so hard for you. It's great that you hold so much respect for DaveB, I think that he's done a decent job with Mage since taking it up.

Mind you, it's nothing compared to what Rose has done with Prometheans 2.0 or especially what Stew Wilson has done with Werewolf the Forsaken 2.0, but DaveB has done a workmanlike effort with a line that needed a lot of repair.

>>54526590
I don't see the problem. Magic is so versatile, Mages don't need to engage in direct conflict with vampires.

>>54526369
He's not wrong though. It's a theory amongst Seekers.

Is it truthful? Who knows. It's still an interesting piece that cements the Practice of Entities.

>>54526703
From a very Mage skewed perspective, which one would expect from the Mage forums, which is true of most of DaveB's posts - which is yet another good reason why his forum posts are considered fan chatter, and idle story hints rather than anything close to canon.

>>54526703
Actually, I hate that bit not for MAGE SUPREMACY TRIGGERED!!!!1111oneone but developers trying to explain shit is an incredibly bad move in a setting who has a "endless rabbit hole" take on FEARFUL SYMBOLISM and MYSTERY.

Sure, at the end of the day, it is the individual ST who will make the call, but it colours the perception of people when they hear stuff from a developer, even when it is presented as that developer's head canon only.

>>54526729
It's never a good idea to engage a mage in direct combat, period.

Even if you somehow *win*, the odds are you're likely going to be scarred for the remainder of your life.

Somebody said last thread that daveb mentined in a discord that he is hiring for Deviant now and is getting back to mage.

WTF has he been doing then? I get that they have to wait for nuWW to sign off on deviant but while they do that cant he push Signs forward out of development hell?

>>54526706
It's not that I hold respect for Dave or take his word specifically as law, just that I accept WoG on a general level. The only reason you are insisting on it not being canon is that you don't like what's being said and that you want to finally get one over on Mages. Hence the condescending attitude.

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/WordOfGod

What Dave says isn't wrong, but don't take it as literal gospel.

Jesus, there might as well be a Church of Dave at this point. Praise be to the Komodo I guess.

>>54526779
>Sure, at the end of the day, it is the individual ST who will make the call, but it colours the perception of people when they hear stuff from a developer, even when it is presented as that developer's head canon only.

Yeah, and I really feel sort of sorry for these developers, who are fans themselves, why are just trying to discuss the game, and throwing out their own sort of "out there" theories, for the fun of it, and who end up having rabid fans do what rabid fanatics do, and take them way, way, way too literally and religiously and get like this triggered dude here, reacting like someone just blasphemed the word of God in Sixteenth Century Spain.

>>54526729
Right, so what about all these vampire conspiracies? Just existing on sufferance of the Awakened? Why would mages tolerate these instead of dismantling them at every opportunity?

The only explanation is that vampires are threatening enough that the Pentacle and Seers usually decide to let sleeping leeches lie and focus on each other.

>>54526207
no comeback?

He must have read psychic domination and rage quit

>>54526207
For starters it doesn't require any contact at all. It's a bit of a stretch to say that Mind 2 is better, but 3 is definitely better.

>>54526973
Mind 2 is arguably one of the most overpowered things a Mage can have in his/her arsenal once he/she has reached Adept / Master status.

>>54527007
Lets not forget that those who start with mind also start with space.

They can force people to commit suicide by ritually casting on the other side of the world.

None of this "look into my eyes" shit there..

>>54526801
I am insisting that forum talk is not canon because the idea of taking forum chatter as canon is asinine. I have absolutely no stake in the specific DaveB-ism you are reciting like a mantra at the moment - you are projecting all of that, which really is really telling. You need to assess your own motives and investments in this discussion here.

>>54527337

Rules and setting among the various gamelines are approved for consistency by OPP. Any ambiguity is intentional, largely to leave space for new gamelines or emphasize the overall "horror of the CofD. That's why every game has a setting and rules "bible" or outline which developers and writers use. That's what was just approved for Deviant.

Nevertheless, the priorities and themes of the gamelines do not mandate the same power levels. It's the reason why Rose emphatically warned early on that A Thousand Years of Night, the Vampire elder sourcebook, was not going to be an Imperial Mysteries-type sourcebook for Vampire.

>>54526799
He probably beat cancer and now hes back to the writing slave mines.

>>54529141
blink twice if you are DaveB